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Games Entertainment

Newly Released WineX 2.2 Supports EverQuest 238

Posted by timothy from the full-cuppa dept.
Mattzilla writes "The latest release of Transgaming's WineX (details available here) now supports EverQuest. You asked for it, here it is. This release also has Direct 3D and Direct Show updates as well as fixes for Mandrake 9.0 and RedHat 8.0 CD device auto-detection. With EverQuest now under Linux I'm sure a great deal of people won't find a need to be dual-booting any longer." The EverQuest support is called "preliminary"; check out those release notes for a few known problems and workarounds.
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Newly Released WineX 2.2 Supports EverQuest More

Newly Released WineX 2.2 Supports EverQuest

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  • Who needs a Wintendo gaming system anymore if all these games run under Linux?

    • Re:Wintendo? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by anonymous coword ( 615639 )
      When XFree86 supports 3d acceration on my Ati Rage Mobillty Graphics card, then we won't.

      • Re:Wintendo? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jace of Fuse! ( 72042 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:33PM (#4438288) Homepage
        Anybody who ever uses Emulation/Implimentation/Binary Compatibility as a cop-out excuse for not needing another system is missing the point of native support.

        Mac's/Linux can run PC games. So developers ask why they should port the project to the other systems. Result? Programs written for a proprietary system remain on a proprietary system and at best, users of other operating systems remain dependant on the Windows software base.

        I don't think WineX is the way things should be going for Linux gamers. On the other hand, I'm gald it's come this far. For some users who really ONLY need Windows to run one or two games, WineX is great.

        For those of us who buy three or four new games per month, relying on a system like this is not an option. It doesn't work with most of the newer games, and runs like crap with the new ones that do still manage to work.

        So in the end it boils down to Unix at the Server, Windows for the games. Everything in the middle can be done on either system, and it's not like I have a problem with running a Unix box AND a Windows box.

        • Re:Wintendo? (Score:3, Insightful)

          by dybvandal ( 535813 )
          I disagree. WineX is great because it serves as a way out of the chicken and egg problem. Basically thanks to WineX the market for Linux Gamers can be build up. Once there are enough Linux Gamers out there software companies will provide native support. Paying customers will demand it and not a bunch of opensource users that love getting everything for free that send in a petition.
          • The original point is still valid: a serious gamer will have the system for which the games they want to play were targetted.

            WineX is a crap shoot at best. Not that it isn't a noble and worthwhile effort, and if I weren't a serious gameplayer, I'd consider it a viable way to have one or two games to play in my Linux box. But I shop for my games without checking for WineX support - checking for WineX support first would be too limiting.

      • When XFree86 supports 3d acceration on my Ati Rage Mobillty

        http://dri.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

        The Mach64 driver works fine with the Rage Mobility M chip in my Omnibook 6000, the Rage 128 driver works with Rage Mobility 128 chips.

    • Re:Wintendo? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Time Doctor ( 79352 ) <zjs@zacharyjackslater.com> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:53PM (#4438158) Homepage Journal
      This isn't Linux. This is Windows emulation.

    • Re:Wintendo? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:02PM (#4438193)
      All these games dont run under linux.

      AO doesn't even install.

      DAoC dies at the patcher

      Earth & Beyond does not work

      Asheron's Call 2 does not work

      Lineage the bloodpledge dies

      Age of Wonders does not work at all

      Add to that RPGs are almost always voted off the list of projects by WineX users so if you have any interest in RPGs at all then you are stuck in windows.

      I still can't believe they gave Wizardry 8 a -80 score when it came up for vote.

      The only major RPG to make lately is Morrowind.. and then it barely made it at all with a +60 vote.

      Gaming on Linux is still a joke.

    • Those of us with Radeon 9700s.

  • Oh great. (Score:5, Funny)

    by anonymous coword ( 615639 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:48PM (#4438139) Homepage Journal
    Now we will see penguins commiting suicide.

  • WineX does NOT support everquest (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tomah4wk ( 553503 ) <tb100&doc,ic,ac,uk> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:51PM (#4438152) Homepage
    Initial support for everquest has been added, and there is some functionality in place, but transgaming do NOT support everquest yet nor does everquest work properly yet. Going on previous track record for transgaming though everquest support will likely be finished by the next release.
    • But, just seeing that, finally got me off my ass enough to subscribe. I tried it yesterday, and it worked for a little bit, then crashed. And it took forever to load. However, I can now look forward to breaking away from the EULAs from Hell.
    • I'm just glad they're working on it. This has been one of those items that hangs around in the middle of the polls, but never seemed to come to the top.

      However, this is good enough for me to start sending 'em my money...

    • Re:WineX does NOT support everquest (Score:5, Informative)

      by crazney ( 194622 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:18PM (#4438242) Homepage Journal
      Actually, its definatly playable, my housemate has been playing it under linux for the past few days, and is happy with it.

      Visit this link [transgaming.com] to see how other users are finding it.

      David

      • Re:WineX does NOT support everquest (Score:5, Informative)

        by Doc Hopper ( 59070 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @08:22PM (#4438842) Homepage Journal
        I concur. I have been playing Everquest for several hours today, and full-screen (as on Windows by default) it has been rock-solid as far as stability is concerned. The memory usage seems significantly higher than under Windows at the moment, so that I cannot load all the models with 512MB RAM, but otherwise it's quite decent.

        Things that aren't perfect regarding Everquest under x86 GNU/Linux at the moment:
        * The installer does not give you any indication of progress until it is ready for you to change CDs or it is done installing.
        * I experienced one error installing Shadows of Luclin, regarding some texture expansion .exe being unable to run. However, the game still ran fine.
        * The patcher takes longer than it does on Windows
        * The patcher (at least on my install) segfaults instead of launching Everquest. The workaround is to invoke Everquest with "winex eqgame.exe patchme".
        * Alt-Tab results in some goofiness under KDE. Probably just due to my window manager, but alt-tabbing out, and then clicking or alt-tabbing back requires that I hit ctrl-alt in order to have any keyboard input. Otherwise the game seems to think I always have Alt depressed. Note this doesn't seem to happen when running it fullscreen.
        * Alt-clicking items to paste them as a clickable link in chat doesn't seem to work; my window manager grabs the alt and tries to drag the window. Yet another problem that doesn't show up in full-screen mode.
        * Performance at the moment is significantly slower than under Win32. It's not horrible, but it is noticeable.
        * Luclin player models have some visual glitches. Due to the age of my hardware (Geforce2MX, 933MHz P3, 512MB PC133 RAM) I've rarely played with them turned on anyway, but I did so briefly today and noted that most characters appeared at least partially nude.
        * If you use more Luclin models than recommended by the Options dialog, it's possible EQ may not load at all. It effectively grinds to a halt if the resident memory usage displayed by "top" comes anywhere near the physical memory limitation of your machine. With all models turned on, by the time I got to the 1-frame-per-second character selection screen, EQ had some 400+ MB resident memory requirement, and a total RAM requirement of 820MB...

        I haven't had Microsoft Windows installed on my gaming PC in several months, and renewed my EQ account just to check out the support under WineX. This is a nice boon, although I'm certain my wife won't be as happy as I am that EQ runs under GNU/Linux just fine now. Darnit, my Armagetron, BZFlag, and Chromium binges are going to be curtailed I think.

        All in all, I'd say it's a fairly successful initial offering to appease the rabid EQ supporters among the Transgaming subscribers. It's still "unsupported" and has some rough edges, but the glitches that are present are certainly not show-stoppers.

        Regarding the earlier comments about how by using Wine, one is treading sand that swallowed up IBM's OS/2:
        OS/2 failed for a myriad of reasons, not nearly solely due to support for Microsoft Windows programs. Although many believe that was a factor, I do not believe that it had any major impact. There were many things leading to the downfall of OS/2, not the least of which was terrible marketing on the part of IBM, the lack of any "Killer App" for the platform, and the lack of significant bundling deals with OEM's which meant that OS/2 had to be installed by the user (a task then, as now, beyond the interest of the majority of computer users). Indeed, GNU/Linux shares some of the same problems right now, regardless of Win32 exe support.
        However, from my point of view, GNU/Linux is in a uniquely superior position compared to OS/2, and the ability to run Win32 packages natively has nothing to do with it. The secret weapon is the GNU General Public License. Business FUD regarding the platform is ineffective in the long run, because the operating system is guaranteed to live on, barring unforeseen litigation. Nobody can fork off their own version of the OS (Read: Microsoft forking Win NT from the OS/2 effort) because the GPL requires those changes to be given back to the community if they are released in binary format.
        We're in a completely different battlefield today than the one that sunk the OS/2 Titanic. GNU/Linux's weaknesses are becoming its strengths. I agree that the Wine approach may not be effective at winning over large numbers of MS Windows users to GNU/Linux. However, that's not really the point, IMHO.

        See, I wiped out MS Windows because I value my software freedom.

        I don't find playing proprietary games under GNU/Linux to be an abrogation of these principles. Games are content-driven (in that new content drives sales), while productivity applications are procedure-driven, and any procedure can be automated and commoditized. Basically, IMHO games are art, and making the concession that the publisher must get back the production cost of the art before the programmatic portions can be released under the GPL seems, to me, to be sound philosophy which acknowledges business needs while supporting software freedom.

        Because I value software freedom, and am far more productive under GNU/Linux and KDE than Microsoft's operating system, I replaced Microsoft Windows with the commoditized, free software GNU/Linux. Many others are making this same step. Transgaming's WineX supports these subscribers by providing them with a service unobtainable in an exclusive free-software realm. I value the service, and contribute my $5 a month to their continued success.

        I feel the need to comment on the disconnect many Slashdot posters seem to feel. They rail that "Free Software Zealots" seem to change their minds with the topic at hand. The reality is, if you watch those who post, some users feel passionately about a certain topic, and others don't. I've found precious few comments amongst several topics that would cause me to believe the poster had an internal disconnect regarding their point of view on free software.

        I have one position I have held for at least the last three years (while using GNU/Linux for years before that for simply practical reasons), and it is quite similar to that which Richard Stallman has claimed many, many times (in different words): The point of the Free Software Foundation is to preserve freedom. In some cases, when there is no adequate free alternative, proprietary software can be used. It is better that a user have a free tool on a proprietary operating system, and thus begin to understand the importance of software freedom, than to have no freedom-supporting software at all. However, if use of the proprietary system can be avoided, it should.

        Transgaming provides a valuable commodity: the ability to play popular, but still proprietary, gaming titles on a free operating system. It's a bit the reverse of the FSF's usual line. Games, however, are a form of art, and stand uniquely apart from that which can be easily commoditized into a free system.

        As a side note, as far as I have found there is no *good* current free software alternative to a proprietary package such as Quickbooks Pro. I've tried MoneyDance. I've tried GNUCash. If you know of more that fit the bill, please educate me. In the meantime, products such as Transgaming's WineX, and Codeweaver's Crossover Office allow me to use proprietary tools such as this, yet keep my system otherwise as free as I possibly can. There will come a day when the free alternatives do the job "well enough", and that will be the day I convert to a free software financial package. This is neither a contradictory position, nor one that is out of line with the "hard line" of the FSF. It's simply an acknowledgement of reality.

        So please, those who've railed against the Slashdot community's collective Jekyll/Hyde syndrome, realize that different people post to different threads. There's a significant contingent of chronic copyright infringers on Slashdot. There is also a significant contingent of those who would never break copyright law, even if they think it is bad. There are those who are free software zealots, and refuse to use non-free software. There are those who only use proprietary software, and snub their nose at the attempts to replace sophisticated proprietary packages.

        And there are those in between, that hold both the ideals of the Free Software Foundation quite dear, but also acknowledge that idealism and reality must reach a compromise on our desktops if we are to use these fantastic tools to their ultimate advantage.

        That's me. Let's not debate over whether this is a horrible move for the community or not. There are at least 3,000 Transgaming subscribers that believe in WineX, and pay their $5 or more a month to have a voice in the direction of the software. Those of us who do are grateful for the service, and happy to appease our free-software-loving sides because those portions of the WineX suite which can be free software (and not encumbered by licensing) ARE kept free by Transgaming.

        Then again, this is Slashdot. Here we debate over whether or not to have a debate :)
        • I cannot load all the models with 512 MB RAM

          I'm not an Everquest player, but this seems quite unusual. I'm assuming both that the limitation you're talking about is imposed by video memory and that you do not have 512 MB of video memory.

          Perhaps you aren't using AGP texturing for one reason or another?

          and noted that most characters appeared at least partially nude

          It's not a bug, it's a feature.

          Microsoft forking Win NT from the OS/2 effort

          NT has OS/2 roots?

          • I'm not an Everquest player, but this seems quite unusual. I'm assuming both that the limitation you're talking about is imposed by video memory and that you do not have 512 MB of video memory.

            Perhaps you aren't using AGP texturing for one reason or another?

            Everquest requires 512 MB system memory to run with all bells and whistles. 256 MB is the minimum requirement. (This applies to the Shadows of Luclin expansion and models; without those, 256 is fine.) Are there people who have 512 MB video memory? I wouldn't want to see the price on that card.
          • The model limitation is related to the physical memory of your machine, not the video RAM. For whatever reason, under WineX my 512MB RAM shows up as 504 to Everquest (perhaps due to AGP texturing, I'm not entirely sure), and it only recommends I enable up to 20 models with that limitation on RAM. It seems to eat a great deal more RAM under WineX at the moment than under Win32, that's for sure.

            [blockquote]
            NT has OS/2 roots?
            [/blockquote]

            Sorry to go offtopic, but why not :)

            Major portions of the operating system have roots in both Digital's VMS operating system and IBM's OS/2. Microsoft and IBM began work together on OS/2 in April of 1987. By October of 1988, Microsoft had recruited David Cutler, of Digital fame, as the project lead for NT. Up until 1990, the NT "personality", or UI, was wholly OS/2; while the "core" of the operating system was VMS, the API and user interface were very, very much OS/2-ish. Later that year, Microsoft leaked plans to fork the OS/2 API into the "Win32" API. Microsoft was slated to be the developer for OS/2 3.0, but decided it would be more profitable to release a 32-bit operating system that was wholly their own rather than continuing to rely on IBM's OS/2 license.

            In a nutshell, OS/2 was killed by Microsoft because they abandoned development on the work to develop their own. Note that OS/2 had a SIX-YEAR lead on Microsoft Windows NT, and still couldn't beat it. They weren't even the first movers in the 32-bit arena. VMS had been released on VAX in 1978. The reason it was so easy for OS/2 to run Windows applications was because the Win32 API, at the time of the Windows NT 3.0 release, was barely a minor fork from the OS/2 API. If I recall correctly, IBM licensed the Windows 3.1 emulation from MS as well, but I could be wrong there. However, they still had a problem running Windows 95 executables due to the whole 32-bit yet running on DOS thing. By the time their emulation was up to snuff, Microsoft already had had enormous market penetration.

            Back to the topic at hand, the WineX/Crossover efforts are a completely different ballpark than IBM's emulation. Microsoft Windows is in much the same situation now as IBM was in 1993 after the release of NT: there's a new operating system on the block which is very cool, very sexy, and very incompatible with our system. However, it's gaining market share at an incredible rate, and there's not much we can do about it. The key difference here is that GNU/Linux is not in bed with Microsoft, dependent upon the very company it is competing against for continued development.

            OS/2 died because Microsoft had its fingers buried deep into the vital organs the whole time. When they ripped them out, all of IBM's efforts to stop the hemmorhaging failed rather predictably. Windows Emulation (or, if you are a Wine zealot, "implementation") on GNU/Linux is a completely different situation.
            • This may sound mean to the EQ coders, but I can't imagine what they're possibly doing that could require 500MB of RAM if they were coding properly. I mean, do they trickle-load levels at all? Where on earth could that be going?

              Major portions of the operating system have roots in both Digital's VMS operating system and IBM's OS/2

              Huh. Always thought that NT was a pretty direct child of VMS (at least the convoluted permissions system seems to be :-) ).

        • Veering off topic...

          There were many things leading to the downfall of OS/2, not the least of which was terrible marketing on the part of IBM, the lack of any "Killer App" for the platform, and the lack of significant bundling deals with OEM's which meant that OS/2 had to be installed by the user (a task then, as now, beyond the interest of the majority of computer users).

          You do realize, of course, that:

          - IBM entered into a joint marketing agreement with MS, which MS then welched on. That's half the marketing problem right there.

          - While under co-development contract with IBM, MS was urging developers to build for Windows instead of OS/2... because they had "inside information" that it was going to do better (thanks to internal sabotage... yeah).

          - Most of the major PC manufacturers (IBM the obvious exception) were at the time finding out, like the software developers, that Windows was the next big thing down the pipe. They got special deals to bundle Windows onto their MS-DOS machines... and they were already locked into per processor agreements on MS-DOS (not that anyone wanted to get rid of it, considering that they knew that Windows wouldn't run right under other versions of DOS, thanks to some planted error messages). Who was there to bundle with?

          Yes, you're right about many of the things that caused OS/2 to fail... thing is, Microsoft was in a unique position to make those things happen (or fail to happen as the case may be), and they took full advantage of it.
          • Yep, as I mentioned in another thread, Microsoft had their fingers deep into the vital organs of OS/2, and when they ripped them out there was little IBM could do to stop the hemmorhaging.

            I hadn't realized about MS's development FUD campaign. That would explain the lack of killer apps for OS/2 -- thanks!

            It definitely is an entirely different ballgame now with GNU/Linux and Wine rather than IBM's OS/2. My goal was to fix the mistaken impression of many posters that the reason OS/2 failed was because it emulated MS Windows. While it may have been a teeny, tiny factor in the overall picture, the fact is that Windows NT is the illegitimate stepchild of OS/2 and VMS. Microsoft divorced IBM, left him with all the bills, refused to pay child support, and hired professional druggists to attempt to poison the child's prescription.

            So I think that Crossover/WineX are a very good thing, ultimately leading people to software freedom. It will be a long road, but it's a better "ecological model" (to use Linus' verbiage) than commercial software, and in the long run it will kill commodity software off.

  • Maybe more business apps should have done 1st? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gizzmonic ( 412910 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:55PM (#4438166) Homepage Journal
    Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the purpose of WINE was to illustrate the viability of Linux as a cheap replacement to Windows on the desktop for budget-minded corporate IT directors.

    Transgaming is nice and all, but it seems that all the momentum is over porting games. When are we going to see ACT! and VisiCalc running on a Linux box? What about Norton Utilies?

    More games are good (even one with EverQuests fatal reputation) but it seems like it's the "sexy" side of WINE that causes the most "geek lust." What about the plainjane broad that's your ticket into corporate America?

    It's the classic case of love vs. security. Will it be the penniless Citar player or the evil Majarajah? Right now, my pendulum is swinging towards the Majarah (maybe it's the recession?).

    • Norton Utilities? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Gogo Dodo ( 129808 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:57PM (#4438177)
      Why would you need Norton Utilities to run under emulation on Linux? None of the utilities are going to help you fix anything on a Linux box.
    • WineX is not the same as Wine -- it's a closed source "fork" of the Wine code, with emphasisgaming support. The reason it's closed source is that it's got reversed-engineered code to support copy protection in games,and releaseing that code could result in legal problems under the DMCA.

      Wine itself is still under development very much alive and well.
      • It is open-source except for the licensed/patented code. It is not GPL; it is licensed under the Aladdin license, meaning no commercial redistribution of it is permitted. The copy protection code has nothing to do with the DMCA; the reason they can't open-source it is because it's licensed from a third party.

      • It is open source (Score:5, Informative)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot@keirstead . o rg> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:07PM (#4438365)
        Under the AFPL. You can download all the source code at sourceforge (http://www.sf.net/projects/winex/ [sf.net]) via CVS. The only parts not released are the portions that you need ot read Copy-Protected CD's (with SafeDisk). But many games don't even require this.

        • Kinda. More AFPL + sword of Damocles. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:30PM (#4438438)
          According to its makers, it stops being Open Source if you exercise your rights under the AFPL and produce a LSB standard installation of WineX (also known as an RPM). Which is kinda sad - either its Open Source or it isn't.

          I don't mind a good closed source app (I'm a WineX subsciber), its just that I think WineX isn't a half bad product but you'd be surprised by the amount of people (users new to Linux) who jump on IRC, try an incredibly broken CVS install and then think that WineX is an unstable pile of shit because CVS often is. I think this odd licensing is bad for Transgaming too.

          As a system administrator, I also find the idea of installing software in any other method than RPM very bad practice.
          • RPMSs are OK. Read the license. TG does discourage them (so there is an incentive to subscribe) but it's permitted legally.
          • As a system administrator, I also find the idea of installing software in any other method than RPM very bad practice.
            That must be this weeks strangest remark, even for slashdot. :)

            As a system administrator (among other things), I find that using RPMs are the sure path to unmaintainability and broken systems. Considering that it is *easier* to build from source as well as less problems, I can't imagine any serious admins using RPMs.

            Debians apt system at least keeps track of dependencies and test the stuff they release... but RPMs? Give me a break. Just do something else while the source compiles, and you will save yourself a lot of future problems. And you'll often get better software. :)

            • I find your post quite typical of /. myself: loud, rude, lacking supporting arguments, and illustrating a fundamental misunderstanding of your topic.

              As a system administrator (among other things), I find that using RPMs are the sure path to unmaintainability and broken systems.

              Why not provide some supporting arguments? I'll go first: standardized install, uninstall, querying, verification, GPG signing, and repeatability, LSB compliance.

              Considering that it is *easier* to build from source as well as less problems

              Er, if you think that building from source is somehow seperate from RPM than you have very little understanding of the packaging system you're dismissing.

              Debians apt system at least keeps track of dependencies and test the stuff they release...

              Huh? Comparing apt to RPM makes no sense and again shows very little knowledge of packaging systems and their function. rpm and dpkg are packaging systems. up2date, apt, and urpmi are frontends (which all work on top of RPM - one works on top of dpkg too) to index the packages and then resolve dependencies using these indexes. Again, comparing a front end to a packaging system makes little sense. Again, there are many other tools that to automatically resolve dependencies using Linux Standard Base (RPM) packages and these tools have existed for years (in up2date's case, since Red Hat 6).
    • Actually, wine was initially created so that the authors could play StarCraft.

    • Re:Maybe more business apps should have done 1st? (Score:4, Funny)

      by rnd() ( 118781 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:16PM (#4438233) Homepage
      It's WINE, not WHINE.
    • Codeweavers has been doing much more business-oriented WINE stuff, such as Crossover Office [codeweavers.com]
    • Games are the last reason I have to run Windoze; every other app I use has a viable option on Unix, though some, like Quicken, may require the Mac version (and I try gnucash every now and then to see if I can't replace that). Though truth be told, I hate to think of the lag of EQ under Wine.

    • Re:Maybe more business apps should have done 1st? (Score:4, Informative)

      by StarTux ( 230379 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:53PM (#4438335) Journal
      WineX is for games, not business apps. In fact CodeWeavers seem to be taking care of the business side of things.

      http://www.codeweavers.com

      That should help.

      StarTux
    • This post was either totally doofey. . . or the slickest troll I've ever seen. :)

      As has been pointed out already Linux needs Norton Utilities like a fish needs a man, or something like that.

      But VisiCalc doesn't need Wine. It's an obsolete *DOS* program that only a few of us hardcore old timers have used in the last *decade.* Hell, most of the "kids" today have never even heard of VisiCalc. It's not only obsolete, but by definition is the *most* obsolete a spreadsheet can possibly be. . . and runs great under DOS emulation or FreeDos anyway.

      And did for years before Wine even existed.

      As for the purpose of Wine, . . . you're wrong.

      KFG

    • What I'd like is to see apps like Encore (a music score editor + playback program), Finale (a more professional version of the same thing), Juliard Musical Adventure (an edutainment program. Pretty good.) Thinkin' Things, Widget Construction set, etc.

      Linux actually has the Office application suite pretty much handled, particularly if you include things like Crossover Office (work still needs to be done, but it is well in hand). But what is there that takes the place of "Crayola Castle Construction Set"? These are the programs that *must* be handled under emulation, because they aren't written for anything but the dominant platform. (Well, games fall in that area too, but less so.)
      • " But what is there that takes the place of "Crayola Castle Construction Set"?"

        Uhm, let's focus on important, must-have apps first. Crap like some Crayola Castle is extremely irrelevant, the office and graphic apps need to come first. The corporate market must be conquered and the trickle-down effect will convert millions of home users. The whole reason why people got windows and home pc's in the first place was so that they could take their work home with them. Let's not lose sight of that.
    • When are we going to see ACT! and VisiCalc running on a Linux box?

      Visicalc?

      The last time I played with visicalc was in the late 80's on a 286. Why the hell would the wine wolks need to worry about getting compatiblity with a spreadsheet that peaked in the mid 80's? If you want to run visicalc, perhaps you should pick up one of these. [davemathews.com]

    • I don't think that genesis of WINE had anything to do with trying to convince anyone of the viability of Linux as a replacement for windows. The development of WINE began around 1993 when Linux was still at version 0.99. I remember when the big milestone when WINE was finally able to halfway run solitare. It was a development project basically just to show it could be done without having to prove anything. I am sure there are those that would love to act like the big time marketing man to say "see we can do anything you can do with your apps" but that was never the original intent

    • You have neglected Uhrmacher's Theorem, which states that every new technological development will find first application in gaming and pornography.

  • Impressive (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vlad_petric ( 94134 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:57PM (#4438178) Homepage
    ... is the number of playable games under winex (by playable I consider games with ratings of 4 and 5): transgaming search [transgaming.com] (you might need to click "show all results" at the bottom of the page)

    While those are clearly not as good as native ports, their holistic approach seems to work much from an economical point of view than, for instance, Loki's. Transgaming also has a much better chance of actually creating a Linux gaming market, as it almost "eliminates" the unfair competition between Linux and Windows games (gamers are a very impulsive crowd, very few will actually wait a couple of month for a Linux port)

    The Raven

    • Re:Impressive (Score:4, Informative)

      by ink ( 4325 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @06:21PM (#4438570) Homepage
      While those are clearly not as good as native ports, their holistic approach seems to work much from an economical point of view than, for instance, Loki's.

      Actually, I've found that they are even better than native ports. Some of my Loki games will not run on my current system due to glibc changes and such (most have patches available). WineX, OTOH, gives me a single package to update in order to update all my games to my current system packages. In addition, the games do not run any slower; I played Jedi Knight II and WarCraft III under WineX exclusively -- I notcied some slowdowns under WC3 on a certain level (tons of animation), so I tried it out under Windows and it was the same situation. I really like WineX, and I highly recommend it; Besides, wouldn't it be the ultimate insult for Win32 becoming known as the "video game compatibility layer" for future systems? :)

  • Wine - who needs wine? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 12, 2002 @03:59PM (#4438188)
    I really wonder: Do we need Wine anymore? Mono will open .Net programs for linux execution. Wxwindows and winelib enable easy ports. QT allows plattform independancy. Java - apllications run under Linux OS.

    Hmm, would be nice to have a OO - fork that imitates WinWord-GUI, like Abiword (sorry, not mature yet).

    There are much more applications than two years ago, games, great software.

    Windows Software? Dreamweaver, of course. I also like the SQL wizard of MS-Access, despite of Acess sql syntax.

    Perhaps even the big gaming companys like Sony and Nintendo will base future game engines releases on Linux OS.

    OpenGL is fine, but directX is superior.

    Even Windows is going to be cloned: www.xpde.com

    I prefer KDE, 3.1 looks amazing (forget Bluefish!)
    • OpenGL is fine, but directX is superior.

      Of course! Doom 3 is going to be coded in directX, as a matter of fact! Oh wait, no it's NOT it's being coded in OpenGL! Wow, imagine that.


    • I really wonder: Do we need Wine anymore? Mono will open .Net programs for linux execution.


      The GUI stuff in .Net is not portable. If I'm not mistaken, Mono will not support portable GUI applications. Is this true?

  • This is the end to OSS development (Score:3, Funny)

    by spike hay ( 534165 ) <blu_ice&violate,me,uk> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @04:02PM (#4438195) Homepage
    All Linux users will now be sucked into the downward spiral of Evercrack addiction.
  • The advantage of Wine is that a developer could write their game for DirectX and have it work for both Windows, XBOX, and Linux. If WineX was a perfect implementation of the Win32 gaming APIs, then everyone wins!

    Linux people can use linux to play games and do work.

    Windows people play their games.

    Some people will never switch from windows, but those that are on the edge (because of games) could be easily swayed because of projects like this.

    If enough people are using linux, then eventuatly people will start to write games for them. It's only a matter of time.
    • what would be the point in writing games specifically for gnu/linux when someone else (transgaming)will happily port them for you for free?

  • It works well (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:21PM (#4438414)
    Well, I decided I'd sign up and give it a whirl as they have added some games I have.

    I run:
    AMD XP1800
    512 PC2700 RAM
    Geforce4 4200 128mb ram
    Mandrake 8.2

    Here is a list of things I encountered different that playing under windows:

    1. I saw MAYBE a 20% performance hit but realistically I didn't even notice a performance hit except in the most populated places, (read bazaar).
    2. According to the text at transgaming mipmapping and texture cache'ing are both unsupported but both can easily be turned off.
    3. My fonts were messed up but legable, (Yes I was running X at 16bit and EQ at 16bit.)
    4. Aside from the fonts, the biggest thing to fix are Luclin armor which from the waist up do not appear. This is purely visable and can be bypassed by using old models.
    5. The only problem I had that was not already addressed on the boards was when trying to patch I generated an crash when patching knews.txt but that was easy to circumvent.

    Over all it is exellent. I did not encounter anything working out of the ordinary during play, (which is usually not my experience w/ wine). I think is a relatively good 'preliminary' and when it is finished it would be great.

  • Linux Games (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Badanov ( 518690 )
    I primarily play military turned based games and the dearth of those games for Linux has led me to a mixed bag of solutions. One of them has been to use Freedos to run DOS games such as Steel Panthers (MBT) Main Battle Tank and Steel Panthers III. But is has been the Safedisc protected CD of the Talonsoft series of game which has been the most frustrating for me. I have spend a couple of years in a wargaming club working for a club wide game using East Front II running on a Linux box under Wine. Why not Win2000 or WinXP? Try the cost for starters, and then security issues and finally the EULAs and the service packs. I want, I NEED to run east Front II on a Linux box. To that end I have been a subscriber to Transgaming and even though I don't care for the voting system (only because East Front II isn't as popular as some of the others) I will continue to subscribe to transgaming on the hope they can finally get EFII to run. It has been a frustrating year for me, and I have gone as far as gaining some of the tools needed to crack EFII so I can run it on a Linux platform. Is Transgaming efforts doom to failure in a commercial sense? Who cares? For me the issue is to get these games running well on a true multitasking/multiuser platform and I will as well as hopefully more people will continue to subscribe to Transgaming. Microsoft's main strength has been in computer gaming but even that market is apparently moving onto the "more secure" Xbox. Windows games on Linux is an economic alternative to rising license/OS costs, and as I said before Transgaming is well worthy of continuing support. It's only $5.00 USD a month. Disclaimer: I have no financial stake in Transgaming.)

    • Re:Linux Games (Score:2, Informative)

      by NorthWoodsman ( 606357 )
      "...and I have gone as far as gaining some of the tools needed to crack EFII..." What I don't understand is why some people think cracking games is wrong or illegal or something. Let me state unequivocally that using a crack on a game is neither illegal nor unethical, if and only if you legally own the game. It's your right to be able to use software you paid for; Now, I'm not so sure that making a crack and posting it on the net for all the pirates is morally right, but as for killing Safedisc so your game works, go for it.
  • I know many EQ players who are computer literate and more than willing to use linux if it weren't for the games that keep them in Windows most of the time. I have been told, exactly, that "if I could get the games I want for linux I would use linux". Wine is moving in that direction. I admit that I am VERY much more motivated to buy games that have native linux binaries, but for those games that don't that I still want to play, I will run them on linux if there is an advantage, (which there usually is since my linux computer is signifigantly better than my windows computer).

    As for the people who don't have 2 (or 4 or more) computers that want to run linux but are tied to their games, there are games that will come out for linux, and there are games that will never come out for linux. Wine helps bridge that gap and this release of wine may very well bring a signifigant number of people over to linux.

  • I distinctly remember someone commenting on how they preferred EQ in Wine because they didn't have to run it full screen.

    There was a win32 hack to EQ awhile back for windowed play, but I think updates later broke it. Which is rather sad. Not everyone wants to run their games full screen.

  • What's next? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mbogosian ( 537034 ) <matt@arena[ ]imited.com ['unl' in gap]> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @06:03PM (#4438531) Homepage
    The latest release of Transgaming's WineX (details available here) now supports EverQuest.

    In other news, Transgaming has announced future plans to support bulk heroin distribution and high-margin cocaine resale.

  • But when will we see some decent parallel port support? VMWare's too heavy for what many of us embedded people need; we just need decent Win32 parallel port accesses so we can connect up our in-circuit emulators and run the IDEs through WINE.

  • Joysticks do not work for some games. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:50PM (#4438765)
    I paid for 3 months support and downloads. I asked one three part question.

    What joystick device does WineX use? How do I get joystick support for X-Plane, and I asked for the name of a WineX game/demo that joysticks are known to work for. I get a half assed instructions on how to install a joystick under kernel 2.4.x and ticket closed.

    Well my joystick has always worked under Linux, I complained about the response, they said they answered my question, I asked them to reread the question, they then gave me the name of a demo, my joystick worked with that demo. They also said it was a their practice to close tickets without customer feedback. In general they were plain rude.

    My joystick still does not work with X-plane [x-plane.com], I would also like to have a descent combat flight simulator like Aces High [flyaceshigh.com] both games load and run well except the joystick does not work!

  • For the most part I have never been really impressed with wine-x as a whole. I had issues with warcraft III and all i got from transgaming was something along the lines of "oh that don't work, sorry your SOL" kind of response.

    One thing that irks me about winex and to complete the subject of this reply is that most Linux applications that i have actually bought, winex is the worst support oriented one yet. By this you will notice that nothing is ever mentioned on thier web site about using SuSE, and it isn't like SuSE isn't some backwater distro ? So why is it that SuSE seems to be silently ignored.

    I guess they have investments mostly in mandrake and only support mandrake fully, and if the word "linux" is utter in a public forum red hat comes to mind.

    I guess i take the stance that if you are making a linux product then you should at least support the big 3 (Mandrake, Red Hat, SuSE) and have instructions and more info for the Gentoo crowd. To me this would make wine-x a complete product.

    For what it is worth i won't be updating my subscription, since this is really just a temporary fix and don't see much long term value in thier product as games are moving more and more to the console market. I play mostly on my PS2 anyhow warcraft 3 was a small exception. But now i just play on my Mac with no goofy tricks i just play it, which is all i wanted to do in the first place.
  • The Wine team should be applauded for trying to make EQ work but EQs time has been and gone. I played EQ for nearly 2 1/2 years and I have to say that in the beginning it was fun. But slowly (perhaps too slowly) it began to dawn on me that the game is actually incredibly, tediously boring. I bit the bullet and quit and I'm glad I did.


    Starting a new character and levelling to about 15 is quite fun. But after that it is dull and repetitive. There is no sense of accomplishment or variety to the game, you go up a level, get a few new skills, kill different creatures, you twink, you camp (a lot), you craft, you sit around, /auc twink gear and you repeat over and over. Perhaps with new levels you get to visit different places and watch your experience bar slowly crawl through to the next level. Nothing you do affects the environment, the physics model sucks (creatures running through walls etc.) and the game engine is so grossly inefficient that its impossible to play in some zones. The user interface is also plain awful. Expansion packs helped a bit, but some such as the Shadows of Luclin so utterly fucked up performance (even if you didn't buy it) and a subscription rise were the final nail in the coffin. It was clear Verant were more interested in putting in new zones and ubergear than fixing fundamental and obvious problems in the game.


    I'm not saying other MMPORPGs of the same generation are much better either. I tried Asherons Call (excruciatingly boring and crap graphics) and Dark Age of Camelot (beautiful UI & scenery but anally retentive looting and other misfeatures).


    Still I guess that Wine would benefit from supporting EQ if only because whatever had to be implemented to support it will benefit other games and apps too. I recall that Wine couldn't do CreateProcess calls properly and perhaps that is what has changed to support the EQ launching mechanism.

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