Microsoft vs. Modded Xboxes 810
hikeran writes "The Register has an article about how Xbox live service is now apparently banning Xboxes that have been mod chipped. Basically it seems this is one of the many uses of those unique id's used in Microsoft's software. Next up bannings for using foul language on Xbox live service?? Be careful what you say.. you may be playing with an Xbox Live admin..."
Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Frankly, I think it's lame to ban modders, too. But here's the beauty of it -- if they piss off enough of their own customers, they'll lose marketshare. Maybe in their own minds they'll be losing undesirable customers and not care... until they end up all walking away and either moving on to a different platform or else using their modded XBoxen to build an underground, alternative gaming network. Now that'd be a hack!
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Interesting)
So I guess there are a lot of modded XBoxes.
Actually, by now, there are so many prerequesites to use XBox-life, I would be surprised of more than a few percent of XBox-owners will buy it. The majority doesn't have broadband and the few broadband owners are - you guessed it - even more likely to have modded their XBox.
This is certainly a stupid move from Microsoft and another nail into XBoxes coffin.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people who installed mod chips pretty well know what they were doing. Also, XBox 'box' probably contains lots of labels warning users that opening the case breaks any warranty.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm if we all look hard enough we'd find that everything that has a Microsoft logo on it also has a sticker that states: No User Serviceable Parts Inside.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I really wanted to call their hotline and say something like, "I got this Microsoft product from a friend, and I read this sticker, so I thought I should call and make sure I'm not pirating anything." and see how long it would take them to figure out that I had a mouse and they had no business putting that sticker on it.
Or do they actually not sell their mice, only license them?
Re:The label MS really want's on all their product (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Until--as the artical pointed out--the xBox is sold 2nd-hand to some completely inocent person.
Certinaly won't do the xBox reputation any good if people are finding they can't get on-line, and that there's nothing they can do about it.
Sure--as the artical says--you may be forced to by a new box, more cash for the vendors. But would you still want an xBox after all than? Maybe a Playstation would seem like a better option the 2nd time 'round. Atleast you know you want get banned from anything.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Assume you are a "completely inocent person" who bought a 2nd-hand car. Later it turned out the previous owner drowned it, so it is all rusty inside, does not drive, breaks, etc. Would you blame the car manufacturer or the person you bought it from for this?
Why do you like to blame Microsoft for somebody selling crippled Xbox'es?
Re:Um...so?? (Score:4, Informative)
That's a very different case. Someone who gets their XBox modded isn't causing inherent damage to the system. The XBox works just fine, but Microsoft is choosing to punish people for taking that action. That makes the issue much less clear-cut, and given the motives behind the people at Microsoft for instituting this policy, i would place the blame more on their heads.
Flawed anology (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone sold you a secondhand car that worked -despite- having the seats replaced by the previous owner, would you be angry that the car dealer no longer allowes you to drive the car?
Just because an X-Box was modded has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on whether or not it -works-.
I wouldn't blame Microsoft for not warranting the modified Xboxes. Fine.
What is bothersome is when an otherwise perfectly working (modified or not, makes no difference) Xbox no longer works because Microsoft has DECLARED that it won't.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Funny)
What do the users have to say? (Score:5, Funny)
/sarcasm
It's obvious that microsoft wouldn't ever run an unmoderated message board, but that thread is so uniformly in support of banning modd'ed xboxes that I suspect the whole thing is faked. Kind of funny to think about microsoft paying people to sit around writing stuff like "Xbox is tehe best anyway so why bother moding it??" and "well mod chips cost 500 dollars". I'm just waiting to see someone with a PhotoCD stock image for their user photo...
Gee, Microsoft run an astroturf campaign ??? (Score:3, Informative)
You'd think, getting caught once or twice at it. . . [google.com]
Re:What do the users have to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that any Xbox online with a modchip is permenantly banned. Microsoft wants to have Xbox completely under their control. Remember that they take a significant loss on the console; the games make the money back. One of the main purposes of modchips on the Xbox is to read non-approved discs, and thus play pirated games. Another is to cheat. Both are Bad Things from Microsoft's point of view.
The Xbox-Linux users? Microsoft would probably want them to go away too, because they probably won't buy as many games as a console gamer. Plus, remember that according to Bill and his crew, Linux=Absolute, Total, Creeping Evil.
All in all, not too much of a surprise, but rather nasty nonetheless. What happens when a "banned" Xbox gets put up for sale used? One screwed-over end user. The funny thing is that this hurts Microsoft, as well. They will have to take the loss involved in producing another Xbox. So the moral of the story? Go out and buy as many Xboxes as you can, to bring the Evil Empire to its knees!
Re:Rule 1: Screw the customer (Score:3, Insightful)
On top of that, the idea that Microsoft cares about having a loyal following of people who are trying to make it easier to pirate software is also hard to believe.
The loyal following that Microsoft wants includes people like myself who:
1. Enjoy games on the Xbox.
2. Buy Xbox games.
and 3. Know the difference between a PC and an Xbox and use their Xbox as intended.
Banning modded consoles from Xbox Live does nothing to alienate that following...oh yes, and Mechassault is a downright blast on Live, if anyone is interested. :)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft should have the right to void warranty (much like PC manufacturers sometimes do), but to limit the ability of a person to modify what they have purchased is wrong.
Were customers aware of Microsoft's "trust" practice before they bought the Xbox product?
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is much the same as the X-box. You buy and actually own the X-box, you are free to hack it to your heart's content, and there is nothing MS can do legally or otherwise about it. However X-box live is a service they provide, and they may choose to not provide it to you if you do something they don't like to your X-box. Doesn't stop you from doing it, just from doing it and then using the service.
Whne you buy a physical item, it becomes your property to do with as you wish (with some exceptions, like you can't deface a gun). However when you subscribe to a service, the provider has the right to decide to deny you service if tey like, unless you have an explicit contract.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Interesting)
*Lots* of mods to cars are illegal, my "car friends" get tickets for having the wrong color headlights, illegal tinting and other (arguably) harmless things.
Whats different about this situation is Microsoft is the judge, jurry and executioner, and they have (atleast it seems at this point), perfect enforcement.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at it as a SERVICE. If you buy a car, yes you can add aftermarket modifications to this car. Likewise, you may add aftermarket modifications to your X-Box. However, should you install a component in either your car, OR your X-Box, your technical support will suddenly be unable to support you. Seriously, go buy a saturn, then cram a diesel engine in it. Your car manufacturer will not say "you can no longer drive this car" but they WILL say "we cannot provide you with service any longer."
Face it, there's no reason Microsoft should be expected to support systems that do not match the specification that they provide. Once you change their configuration, it's no longer THEIR configuration, it's YOUR configuration. YOU have to figure out how to support it, and YOU have to figure out how to play online now that you've changed it. It's not up to them.
Take some responsibility for your own actions people, it's necessary under the conditions of freedom. You either have freedom, or you have security. They're practically mutually exclusive, and it's time for you to decide which you want.
Let me lay it out in a simple, easily understood format.
You take the blue pill, you get security. You wake up and you can use your electronics knowing that you will be supported in full by the companies that manufactured them.
You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and find out just how much you can push your own purchases to do, specifically, what YOU want them to do using your realized freedom.
I make no apologies for the vague matrix reference.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Insightful)
You can modify your box all you want. Microsoft has the right not to fix what you might destroy (this is standard warranty stuff -- if you drive over it it's not protected) and has the right to say you can't enter their races with other racers.
Re:Um...so?? (Score:3, Informative)
Censorship (Score:2, Interesting)
Is this bad because it is Microsoft? Or because your 5-year-old's 1st ammendment rights are being violated?
Re:Censorship (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Censorship (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Censorship (Score:5, Informative)
Look at THAT
A non-governmental entity can impose any restriction on speech that they want to at their private functions/on their private property/on their private gaming network
Write this on the back of your hand so you don't lose it
BTW, IAAL
Their rules (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Their rules (Score:2)
Re:Their rules (Score:5, Insightful)
You are wrong: people were not "permanently (FOREVER!!!) banned from Xbox live". Only their modded Xbox'es were.
They are not "using the Xbox, which they paid for", they are using modded Xbox. Makes the difference, does not it?
Its a great thing too... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not unprecedented either. Drop in a modchip on your cable converter to get HBO for free and see how fast your cable company splices YOUR wire when they find out.
Hack YOUR copy of quake or unreal and see how many anti-cheat servers will let you log on if they discover you're not running the default client.
It's very, very simple. If you don't like the rules, don't join the service.
Uses (Score:3, Interesting)
Tim
Re:Their rules (Score:3, Insightful)
You dont turn away customers because you dont support them, you still collect the monthly fee and turn them away for support. Whats next M$ saying anyone with a linux partition cant download service packs for windows?
PS. your a troll.
Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Slashdot uses the same rationale to justify its IP banning and $rtbl'ing. But hey, it's "M$", so it must be wrong!
It still works... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It still works... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:It still works... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure they use some form of encryption on the network side, but _strong_ encryption would add a lot of delay.
Once they see that 90% of their network is banned, they'll freak. They will try to ban the IP generating the packets, then the entire subnet. Pretty soon, IRC will distribute the packet generator to thousands of geeks looking, not to kill, but to prove that banning modded XBOXen is stupid.
Re:It still works... (Score:3, Insightful)
Ceterum censeo microsoft esse delendam. It had to be said.
This is good and bad (Score:2, Informative)
Although it is bad because I have a mod chip. Although I have played online with it, turned off of course.
I am sure they will continue to try and fight it, but like everything good luck on fighting piracy/modding, if it uses 1010010's then its hackable.
Level playing field (Score:5, Insightful)
Modding should be banned! (Score:5, Insightful)
Btw, users can nark on anyone for foul language -- it doesn't have to be caught by an admin. (Again, foul language seems to mainly come from 13-year olds who think it makes them sound older.)
How dare microsoft! (Score:3, Funny)
You mean, they're actually trying to ban people from using pirated software on their network? What nerve!
Seriously folks, does this shock (or even surprise) anyone? Any company would do the same damn thing (yes even Redhat).
Re:Modding should be banned! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Modding should be banned! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should you expect to do as you please? If you're disrupting the service for others, they have every right to ban you - pay or no pay. If I buy a ticket to a movie, that doesn't give the right to act as a please in the theater - the management could quite reasonably throw me out if I distrupted the experience of other paying customers.
Indeed, one of the things you are paying for when you subscribe to Xbox Live is precisely that it is a controlled service. You are paying for a reasonable expectation that people are not going to cheat, or be consistently abusive. You know that when you sign up.
Good! (Score:4, Funny)
Hah!
Good! (Score:4, Insightful)
And as fair as the implication that Microsoft banning people who've modded their XBox, as soon as you modded your XBox, stop whining and just take some responsibility for your actions. It's not like you didn't know full well what you were getting yourself into when you cracked open the case and started messing around with a soldering iron.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Funny)
you must know some sick, sick people.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Funny)
you must know some sick, sick people.
No worries... these people aren't likely to have a child anytime soon.
Re:Good! (Score:4, Interesting)
Just like the keygens for Half Life and Quake 3, right?
Oh wait. Unique keys. With a central database containing all valid keys, and associating them with a MAC address.
More likely, you might see rogue servers set up, which would fit the bill for things like Unreal Championship.
Personally, I'm not excited about the idea of paying a subscription to play a game that'd benefit perfectly fine from a decentralized, P2P method of online play, like UC or some sports titles. There's no need for an online community. I hate online communities, they're full of idiots. Just look at this one.
Hopefully MSFT and Sony realize this, and start releasing some games that allow me to just connect to my kid brother and beat the crap out of him from 500 miles away, without having to 'log in' and pay a bill.
Until then, I'll just keep filling my shelves with nice free pirated single player games, and not bat an eye at the xbox lives policies.
As for this 'news' that never was - it's been known for a long, long, long, long time within the mod world that xbox live would not allow chipped consoles.
It's MS's Service. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's MS's Service. (Score:3, Insightful)
So if the equipment costs MS $300-$350, if you buy it for $199, they are losing $100-$150 on the XBox console. If you don't buy it they just lost $300-$350... It just sits on the shelf and they lost more money. Also when you buy it, it provides MS with the numbers they want to present to game makers. The more 'units sold' MS can boast to the game maker, the more software and 'exclusive' titles they will be able to get for the box, which will in turn cause more 'real' customers to buy more XBoxes (and games). Each unit sold allows MS to get to 'Critical Mass'.
I still don't have a passport account because I don't want to add to the 'critical mass' for their Passport system. Even though it means I can't follow crash reports that I send to them. I think they are 'illegally' tying their bug reporting system to their passport accounts just to get the 'critical mass' needed for developers/websites to decide to support the passport system. It would be just as easy for them to give me a unique tracking number for each crash I submitted so that I could track the problem, but of course they wouldn't gain anything (new account, more personal information, etc) from it.
This is a good thing (Score:5, Interesting)
2. Your XBox serial # can be changed.
3. As long as you don't try go log onto Live with a modded XBox, your serial will not be banned. If you are banned, then goto 2.
Basically, you can mod the hell out of your XBox as long as you don't try to get onto Live with it while you have a modchip in. Sure, there'll be workarounds, but I see nothing wrong with this.
reputation (Score:2)
Well, I did not see that coming. (Score:2, Funny)
Kinda Dumb (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus if a person removes their mod chip, they still cant use that Xbox on the Live network, just because they had a chip in the past. If they want to regain access under the same account, they have to get another xbox, which means MS just loses another $150+, since they wont buy a duplicate set of games for their new box.
Finally, certain mod chips, like the OpenXbox (PcBioXX) can boot multiple BIOSes, making this pointless.
Overall, probably not worth it for MS to do this IMO.
The summary isn't really fair. (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't believe I'm torn... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing destroys a game community faster than the proliferation of cheaters. And, the Xbox stands to profit nicely if it can develop those communities (it's certainly not profiting without them). If I pay my hard-earned money every month to play an online game, the last think I want is to have no chance to fairly compete.
On the other hand...is that what's happening, or is this just another excuse to enable the control freaks at M$ to continue their reign?
omg (Score:5, Funny)
Think first, then post (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Think first, then post (Score:3, Insightful)
Dial-up users have no problem with this (Score:3, Interesting)
if you're doing that then you're not going to be using Xbox live very much.
It doesn't matter whether or not I use a mod chip on an Xbox because I don't subscribe to Xbox Live. I don't subscribe to Xbox Live because Microsoft doesn't want me. Microsoft doesn't want me because I'm on dial-up.
Don't you want to grow up to be just like Noone? (Score:3, Funny)
Don't you want to grow up to be just like Noone?
Noone seriously runs linux on an xbox.
What did this Noone fellow think about how Mandrake runs on his Xbox console? Does he also run homebrew games [pineight.com] on his GBA?
Noone legitimately backs up their software.
So do I. When I download free(beer) software or video clips from the Internet, I put it in a folder to be burned to a durable CD-R next time I get 600 MB or so worth of stuff.
Noone uses the iso images they leech off their friendly neighbourhood Gene6 ftp server to 'evaluate' before making a purchase.
The next console title I plan to buy is "Balloon Kid" for Game Boy, because I liked it on the emulator. I have recommended that a university buy copies of Syntrillium's Cool Edit for my senior project team after having tried the waveform editor's demo, because I liked the graphical interface for signal processing, and recreating the same thing in Matlab would be a chore.
I find myself to resemble this (fictional?) Noone quite closely.
Modchips are so you don't have to pay for the games.
Perhaps, but they have the same substantial non-infringing use as console emulators: letting anybody with a PC and a console write and run homebrew software for the console.
A game being 60$ one week, 30 the next, then 20, then eventually 10. It's crap. I refuse to pay an unreasonable price for a game. So I pirate them
Or just rent it for $5 or so at Blockbuster. If it's a PC title (which can't be rented in the USA due to 17 usc 109(b)(1) [cornell.edu]), just wait until (as you pointed out) the title hits the $10 bargain bin.
Re:omg (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually no, they haven't. A single Blizzard CD can be used to install up to 8 "spawn" installations that will let you play multiplayer games while only buying one copy of the game. Even on Battle.net. You can't play the one-player campaigns and (on the older games) you don't get CD sound, but other than that... You can even do this with Warcraft III.
Personally, I wish more game companies had this kind of attitude. It shows they're more concerned with gamers having fun than squeezing every cent out of games for the bottom line. Of course, with most Blizzard games, you don't really need that kind of incentive to want to go out and buy the game. Which brings me right back to "I wish more game companies were like this."
if this weeds out cheaters then so be it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good for them. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they want to be responsible for some hacker bringing down their server because they hacked their box to do [fill in the blank] and screwed with some important protocol or something that causes their server to crash?
As for using foul language... what is your problem with that? Again, their server, they make the rules. You are not entilted to anything. If you have problems with their rules, than I suggest you don't buy one. Oh, and anti-language rules are relatively common in MMRPGs so it's not like that would be so shocking either. I actually prefer to play games with others who do not continuously spam my screen sexually immature comments.
Where is all the outrage about all those stickers on your components that say "warranty void if removed"? Or do you only rant about Microsoft (that was rhetorical).
Good for microsoft! (Score:5, Insightful)
People should be free to mod their hardware as they see fit (since it's theirs).
This is a bit like me fitting rocket boosters to the back of my car and driving it around at 200 mph. Sure i can do it and that's probaly legal. Driving it on public roads is of course not.
Anyway i thought everyone that bought xbox mod chips wanted them to make them into linuXBoxes - what the hell will they be doing with xbox live, what they realy need access to is apt-get live
Talk about DoS... (Score:4, Insightful)
Hell, you might even just start carpet-bombing things. I can imagine even writing a little worm, that goes out hitting cable modem users, who still have a dialup. Late at night, it dials out to the service, and spoofs a modded Xbox. Hundreds of them, thousands of them. This could be fun...
I mean, there are cryptographic methods that could prevvent something like this, but after all, we are talking about M$.
Article title. (Score:4, Interesting)
"MS accused of banning mod chip Xbox from Live service"
They later go on to say,
"...we're already seeing how unique hardware IDs could be used in anger by certain companies."
Well goddamn. I know microsoft is evil, but come on. Just because you don't want to follow the rules, doesn't mean they'll let you play with there toys. And I'm sure Xbox Live is burried in enough EULA's and of course backed with enough laweyrs to prove it.
I would have no problem if this article was rewritten as a non-attack on microsoft, and more as an informative article. Who's accusing them? I'm fairly damn certain,
"MS Found guilty of locking out modding bitchez from Xbox Live, Snoochie Boochies!"
All your fault. You cracked the case. You installed the chip, or had it installed.
--
I'm not anti-mod here either before the flames roll in. I'll be waiting for something worthwhile to mod my Xbox. As an added benefit of waiting for something worthwhile, if I do mod my Xbox modchips will be several years more mature.
nothing you can do about this (Score:3, Interesting)
This is very similar to what sattelite providers have done. Some have used eeprom updates that completely ruined systems that had pirated cards. Microsoft in turn is banning users who have used illegal mod chips which in turn could let a user use pirated games. This is no different than blizzard using serial numbers to prevent people from playing online using pirated versions of their products (blizzard is a prime example of a company that tries hard to curb piracy, despite many attempts to hack their protection such as bnetd).
Most importantly though, if you don't like MS's perfectly legal tactics, you have the perfectly legal solution of not buying their products.
It's Their Right, Good For Them (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the implication about swearing, GOOD! I don't mind a "Damn" when something happens now and then, but if I want to hear non-stop-increadibly-vulgar-peel-the-paint-off-eve ry-single-thing-within-ten-miles swearing, I'm sure I could go find that somewhere. But I don't want to hear it when I'm trying to play on online game. If you can't deal with not doing good in a stupid game without shouting enough obscenities to make all nuns on your contenant have a heart attack, then you need some serious help. I've been using Live a little (I got into the beta) and I haven't heard much of it, but I am expecting a certain level of maturity when I play online (about age 7). The constant idiotic trashtalking is anoying too, and people who make tons of sexual references and innuendo. I HOPE MS bans people who do this repeatidly. Considering that they are positioning this as something for kids, they most definatly should controll that sort of thing.
Competitive Counter argument (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with you but it surprises me that you (nor anybody else afaik) has mentioned the superior online strategy adopted by PS2 and GC.
They leave it to the individual game makers to provide the infrastructure and rules how to play. This is much better
If you get banned due to modding from Xbox Live you are hosed as far as internet gaming is concerned. Not so with the other consoles.
You can play US games on your Eur PS2 with minimal penalty risk as an example. Second you can decide to give your business to the game maker that mostly align themselves with your "View of the world" .
I wonder how I could emulate a Xbox and the ID # (Score:3, Interesting)
Just go in sequential order and make them think there are 30-40K Xbox's out there with mod chips in them. Perhaps if all thier customers were banned microsoft would rethink thier stance on it and open it up.
REAL nerds view this as a challenge (Score:5, Funny)
Can you enable your intellectually pedestrian friends to do the same? The entire nation?
MS is doing this to *encourage* modchipping. It's like a contest; MS awards m4d pr0p5, in the form of a l4\/\/5u1t, to the first h4x0r who builds a kit that can modify the xbox in a way their servers can never, ever detect; it must be usable even if the person you give it to:
1) Has no technical training.
2) Lacks even a basic understanding of electronics.
3) Hell, they can't change a lightbulb.
4) They're blind.
5) They're a technophobe, they have alzheimers disease.
6) Hell, they're dead. Ease of use must be total.
The winner gets instant geek celebrity and free representation by the EFF.
Fine With Me. (Score:4, Informative)
I just bought a second XBox to play on Live and it's well worth it. I'm glad I won't be messing with cheaters. I'm sure chipped boxes will eventually get on, but most likely they'll be with the chips disabled. I suggest anyone that has a modified XBox be VERY careful. It's easy to target modified HDs.
For those bitching that they spent $50 and can't use it, read the EULA. It says plainly that you can't use a modified XBox on the service. Once it is modified they say it will NOT be considered normal if you remove it. Too bad. My only complaint is I wish MS would have come out right off and said "Yes, we banned modchips." or at least had the XBox give a better error than "XBox Live Not Found.". That just makes it look like a connection problem.... It ends up causing their support too many issues.
What if this was just a normal ISP? (Score:3, Insightful)
Total BS, but what can an end user do about it? Ask for a refund? "Sorry , TOS violation, suck it."
Its not all that far-fetched....
Modchips are not illegal... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's actually a matter of simply installing a switch. When I'm using Xbox Live!, I simply use the switch to disable my Enigmah modchip (use a DPDT switch for wires 15 and 21). That turns off the modchip, and there's no conceivable way that Microsoft can detect the presence of the chip because the voltage going to the chip is simply shut-off.
If a person wants to use their modded Xbox, do not go on Xbox Live! What this means is that one should disconnect the network cable going to their Xbox when the chip is enabled, and presto.
So that's how to by-pass Microsoft's pseudo-detection. The overarching issue, however, is if Microsoft has a right to 'ban' modchip users from the Xbox Live! service. Arguably, they do because their is always the possibility of users downloading 'hacks' and 'cheats' for Xbox Live! enabled games. This would obviously be 'unfair' to other legitimate users, as well as Microsoft. And obviously, they have a right to protect their service.
Perhaps someone may argue that the modchip detection deters piracy. Maybe, but the amount of people who have the technical skills to install a modchip are arguably a negligible amount. In my case, soldering ~ 30 wires for my chip was a huge hassle. I doubt any of my friends and collegues could have done so. Nor would they even bother. How many people really want to run Linux on their Xbox just because it can be done?
In the end, if a person has the 'smarts' to install a modchip (even if it is the no-solder Matrix/Xodus chip), they should also have the intelligence to forsee that using such a chip has obvious consequences.
Is this, even unusual. (Score:3, Insightful)
Mullet doesn't feel sorry for you. (Score:3, Insightful)
So does Mullet feel sorry for you because you thought you were sticking it to the man by getting a $300 (now $200) machine with an advanced graphics card, only to find out one of it's key features has been disabled in modding it? Fuck. No.
Stop the Insanity! Buy another bloody XBOX (Score:3, Insightful)
A couple things (Score:3, Insightful)
1. A modded X-Box will probably eventually start generating "Unique" IDs of their own, possibly each start up or every time you tell it to. How long it'll take to actually do this is questionable, but the whole mod chip running things sort of points out that this whole setup won't work unless you start banning more than specific UIDs.
2. All the remarks about cheating, see #1. While anti-cheat tools make it harder to cheat by forcing you to appear that you're not cheating, at some point the connection to the physical box is just data and any data can technically be manipulated. Whether or not it'll be done in a reasonable amount of time might, however, might make it unreasonable for most people so at least in that they've served that purpose, but it doesn't fix #1 since the same people who spent all the effort to mod their X-box in the first place have a pretty large incentive to mod again their x-box to void the whole setup scheme (read PS1 mod chips, mod chip detectors, and future generations of stealth mod chips).
3. Banning people for modding their systems is bogus. Read #2. Those who are motivated enough can, if given sufficient time, cheat. This is true with or without mod chips. Encryption, hashing, etc are what is meant to protect the X-Box in the first place from inserting "invalid" code. Mod chips might be able to let you run arbitrary programs, but unless MS and co. are complete morons, they're encrypting all traffic to/from each X-Box system to avoid sniffing. You still can't debug an X-Box very easily and while you might be able to run arbitrary programs, you still need to use the system keys to run the games involved. So, if that's given you're back to doing physical tapping to attempt to read the unencrypted code at some step.. Or you could always try to brute force check all the encrypted output. In any case, all this amounts to is a very small and arbitrary additional barrier to #2. So, modding a system is more about a "we don't like mods" than any nature of true protection for gamers or their network at large. After all, an X-Box is just a computational device so it's not like using it to run arbitrary programs makes it any more of a threat than any other equally fast/bandwidth capable device. And the data coming in is still just data so it can always be sniffed. UIDs just make it harder but that won't stop people, just will slow them down.
So, all this rant amounts to is apparently a vain attempt to slow down the modding of systems in the hopes it'll actually prevent modders from getting on the network. Good luck with that, MS. Hope that works out well. If you've written a secure enough system with encryption and signings at every turn, you may make the system so unreasonable to break that no one but a tiny few will bother attempting to break your system for their own needs. If not, you're back to square one.
Speaking as one who works at EB... (Score:5, Insightful)
The folks who do care about mod chips usually fall into two categories - collectors and pirates. The pirates want mod chips so they can play all their games without having to pay for them...and honestly, I can't think they'd be terribly surprised by getting banned. The collectors usually want mod chips so they can import games that aren't available here in the US...but that really isn't a problem (yet) with the Xbox. Sure, there are also some other folks who mod their Xboxes...tinkers and developers and such...but again, I don't think they'd be very surprised to get banned.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
Less Evil Reason. (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps (Score:3, Interesting)
This might be a good thing. Has anyone played on Battle.Net recently? The strength and vocalness of people's anger and rudeness absolutely astounds me.
The people are what have prevented me from allowing my son to play on it.
XBox Live's AOL Issues (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:microsoft isnt the smartest... (Score:2, Interesting)
Fyi: Read article first, comment second? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Turn it back on them (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Purchasing an X-Box? (Score:4, Interesting)
#include standard_not_that_Im_defending_Microsoft.h
Re:Blizzard's Battle.net v. bnetd - BAD COMPARISON (Score:3, Interesting)
In the xbox world, Microsoft has a good claim that the mod chips hurt their business. People wanted to get pirated software, and MS said 'that hurts our profits'. If you want the ability to run Linux they have made a way to do that: GET A DEVELOPMENT KIT. If you want to make your own games, get a dev kit. If you want to play pirated games, you are a theif, (but could do it with a dev kit).
In the bnetd world, Blizzard has a poor claim that bnetd hurts their business. People wanted Blizzard to improve their online sites. People offered to pay; ISPs offered to host; Consumers complained. They could have EASILY said "We'll offer new servers", or "We'll license ISP's to host", or "We'll let corporations like McDonalds host and add BigMac items that restore lots of unit health". When the bnetd folks asked them for help, they just said "no." When bnetd didn't do the things Blizzard did, they could have made an agreement with bnetd to include their 'security code'. Did they? No. They filed a law suit instead of implementing their 'security code'.
To finish the comparison: Where Blizzard just filed law suits, MS said "keep stuff you have changed off our servers." Where Blizzard said "No other networks, period, we don't care if you are legit or pirates", MS has said "Developer networks are fine, just show that you are developers and not pirates."
See the difference? I personally dispise xbox mod chips because they hurt my paychecks. But MS were to somehow require that you used their servers and couldn't use dev servers? Or if their servers get clogged and they won't let new game developers enable custom servers? Then you will have a valid comparison.
frob.