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Games Entertainment

High-Tech Foosball Mod Project 196

Posted by chrisd from the thirty-dollar-magstripe-readers dept.
JakeBullet writes: "Project: Take a standard foosball table and make it a little bit smarter. 1. The table should be aware of who's playing, the score and the status of the game. 2. Take the data from the game and use it to create a stats engine and player ranking system. 3. Project all relevant information about gameplay onto a flat screen. 4. Spend under $50.
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High-Tech Foosball Mod Project More

High-Tech Foosball Mod Project

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  • Spinning (Score:4, Interesting)

    by assaultriflesforfree ( 635986 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:15AM (#4997727)
    Second post... fantastic. I have a question (poll I guess) for foosball players out there. Spinning or no spinning? Personally, I don't like spinning - especially since it can damage a table - but I've found that depending on where I play, house rules seem to change. What do you think? This leads me to an idea for a neat feature for a high-tech table - a spin detector that doles out appropriate punishment (i.e. not counting points scored from spins, or whatever).
    • Well, can you imagine a real life football (soccer, whatever) player spin 2 or 3 times ? I can't ...
      So I'd vote against spinning. It do think 180 spin (so just to the point where the feet are on top) are possible (also in real life :p).

      Bt as you said, rules are different everywhere you go ...
      • The argument for spinning is that it's easier to just allow spinning than to work out penalties for spinning, and determining whether it was a spin, or a slightly over zealous kick (although a spin detector would solve this one).

      • Re:Spinning (Score:5, Funny)

        by Gudlyf ( 544445 ) <gudlyfNO@SPAMrealistek.com> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @10:08AM (#4998122) Homepage Journal
        "Well, can you imagine a real life football (soccer, whatever) player spin 2 or 3 times ? I can't ..."

        Yeah, and while we're at it, I don't recall ever seeing the forwards connected together with a metal rod, restricting them to left-right movement. Same for the defensemen, too. Therefore, I vote against the foosball players being tethered together like that, because it's not like real life.

        Not every table game has to be like real life. You play by the mechanics and rules given to you. What matters is that everyone has fun and nobody else's expense.

    • Re:Spinning (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:22AM (#4997752)
      Nah. When you spin, you lose a lot of control. I've always found that players may start out spinning, but once they've played a few games they stop. You can get a HELL of a shot from a normal flick of the wrist, plus then you're ready to immediately stuff a rebound coming back from your shot. If you spin, you lose contact with the handle and thus you lose control and reaction.
    • No spinning. Especially not on cheap tables, because spinning can cause the bars to bend.
    • I'd love a Spin Detector on my TV... so that whenever a politician's trying to spin something I can be warned... ...although I guess it would prove useless because the damn thing would be flashing all the time...
      • They have such a 'spin detector'...check out Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly "The Factor". On topic...spinning has generally been considered 'bad form' from where I'm from. Generally your hand must remain in contact with the handle through the shot. I've played in places where they will disallow a goal if the ball even touches another player (I call that bogus) AND where they don't allow goals from the center bar (with 5 players).
    • According to the "Official Foosball Rules" that came with my foosball table (which came with the house when we bought it...) spinning is _not_ allowed in tournament games.

      As I've never played a 'tournament' I play with spinning allowed, but YMMV.

      -Trillian

    • Re:Spinning (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02, 2003 @09:27AM (#4997925)
      Any person that has played more than the occasional casual game of foosball knows that spinning is a quick way to lose. The keys to winning are:
      • Ball control - By far the most important, as the opponent cannot score if they don't have the ball;
      • Shot speed - Important, but not as much as most people think (a well placed angle shot scores the same value point as the burner to that dents the back of the goal);
      • Deception - Disguising your shot so that the opponent doesn't see it coming;
      • Anticipation - Being able to anticipate the opponent's shot (particularly easy when they are bad at deception);
      • Exploiting Weakness - Find a shot in your arsensal that the opponent can't block and you're home free;
      • Playing - Like most things in life, the more you do it the better you get at it.

      • With spinning, you gain a broken table and a high total in the "L" column (to match the L on your forehead ;-). When I play against "spinners", I know that it's going to be a short, uninteresting game. But watching their frustration when you *always* have the ball is funny. :-)

      • Bending rods.... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by orim ( 583920 )
        At the old office we used to have a pretty nice table (ah, the dotcom days).
        There was a "move" I was fond of, the squeezer. You just kinda pinch the ball between the player and the table, and then you just cranked hard. The ball just shot out, and the forward spin on it was incredible. Many a time you would score a goal after the ball hit the goalie/defender, and just spun right around him to the side, and into the goal.

        The point being: I'd consider that an "advanced" shot, but it bends the hell out of the bars. Would you allow that?

        • There was a "move" I was fond of, the squeezer. You just kinda pinch the ball between the player and the table, and then you just cranked hard. The ball just shot out, and the forward spin on it was incredible. Many a time you would score a goal after the ball hit the goalie/defender, and just spun right around him to the side, and into the goal.

          The point being: I'd consider that an "advanced" shot, but it bends the hell out of the bars. Would you allow that?

          The backpin and frontpin squib are both legal, but they're not that effective at high levels of play. Also, you don't need to bend the rod much to shoot them--you can get the ball to shoot out just as fast with firm pressure rather than torquing the hell out of it, as long as you brush the rod off of the ball at the right speed/direction.

          The kind of topspin you describe can be achieved on every shot with the right follow-through.

          Basically the only time you'll see the backpin squeeze is from the goalie area--with enough practice, you can effectively pass to either side of the forward's 3-rod or shoot on goal with it. Even then it's usually limited to pick-up/funsy games as opposed to major tourney play.

          Primary shots you'll see up front are the pull shot (with the middle man--including all straight, middle, long, and cutback/spray options), the snake (front-pin the ball, flip the man over and hit the ball--you can move it either direction), and the regular front-pin (which you can move either way). Less common but still seen are the push shot (with the middle man--harder to square off and effectively hit all the options than the pull), the push-kick (near man to middle man, plus dink options), the pull-kick, and tic-tac shots.

          For the last 10 years I think every major tournament in the US (Worlds, Nationals, US Open, and Vegas Hall of Fame Classic) has been won by someone shooting a snake, pull, or front-pin. If there is an exception it's very uncommon. In the 70s and early 80s the push-kick and pull-kick were pretty successful as well, but nowadays literally everyone ranked in the top 200 who shoots a kick shot is over the age of 40--those shots have weaknesses that the snake, pull, and front-pin shots don't have. On european tables (grippier and slower) the front-pin is far more popular than in the US, but it's been gaining popularity here recently (since the top player in the world, Frederico Collignon, shoots it exclusively and has destroyed the US players in the last few years).

          Popular funsy shots include the scorpion (bump off the near wall and brush at a steep angle into the goal, HARD), Texas T (chip the ball from a frontpin on the near man to the middle man and straight in, without moving the bar sideways at all), alien (two-handed push-kick that you slam with the left hand--hard to describe unless you see it), and the 3-to-5 smash.

          Sumner
      • I play tournament foosball pretty frequently. One of the very first things you learn is that everyone good has a decent shot; the thing that seperates the tournament-level players from the casual players is their ability to pass the ball and block their opponent's passes. Passing from the 5-bar to the 3-bar is key--you have to be able to execute at least 2 different passes from the same setup without telegraphing which one you're doing, and then you need to be able to read the opponents' pass defense to decide which to execute.

        Just like in football, time in the redzone is going to get you the win.

        If you're in the Washington, DC area, come out to the Crystal City Sports Pub in Arlington (23rd street and S. Eads) on Tuesday night at 8:00 PM. They have a handicapped tournament that is great for new players who want to learn to play tournament level foosball. Other cities have similar events, foosball.com should have a listing.

        Sumner

    • Re:Spinning (Score:1, Redundant)

      by bwalling ( 195998 )
      Not on my table. That's how the rods get bent. Spinning seems to be more common among people that are just starting to play. I think that once you get better at foosball, you just naturally stop spinning.
      • I think that once you get better at foosball, you just naturally stop spinning.

        I think it's more of a case of when you keep losing, you stop spinning. Then you become a better player.

    • Spinning is for skill-deprived cro-mags.

      A spin detector would only be allowed on tables used by players that don't spin, and then it wouldn't serve much purpose. It's fun to think about though, especially if the "appropriate punishment" were to include a mild electrical shock.

    • Spinning only damages the table and the players ability to play well! if you really like foosbal: NO SPINNING!!! unless you are a pansy.
    • Foosball is a highly skilled game. Spinning is no skill at all; cheap luck shots made by accident. We would try not to even count points made by accident; either dont mark them at all, or the opposing goalie would swiftly reach into the goal and grab the ball out after it entered the goal. Some guys could reach half an arms length down into the goal. Its just understood. After making a cheap shot, you look up at the opposing team and apologize. Kind of like pool.
      • After making a cheap shot, you look up at the opposing team and apologize.

        That's funny, after I make a cheap shot, I look at my opponent and expect him to develop a counter for it--delivering a painful demonstration of how weak my cheap shot actually is, and forcing me to improve my own game in response.

        If my opponent can't counter it, then I'll just keep using it until they mount an all-out defense against it that I can't penetrate, forcing me to revert to other techniques that my opponent can counter. Then I'll mix it up, alternating between cheap shots and other shots unpredictably. If my opponent is playing in the same way, then it becomes a truly exciting mental contest, rather than a simple memorization and repetition of a single keystroke sequence, or spin shot, or whatever. And this, to me, is much more challenging than imposing an arbitrary rule against "cheap" techniques.

        This generally works out for me, and I've yet to find a cheap shot in any game that was any good against an opponent who was more interested in playing than in whining.

    • Re:Spinning (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      First of all spinning is against the rules. It's hard on the table and leads to poor gameplay. Accuracy is much more important than shotspeed. You need to learn a good hard wristflick an then you can shoot the ball fast enough that it doesn't matter. The one problem with trying to implement spin dectecors (other than the mechanical design) is that you can spin to some degree. You cannot spin the rod more than 360 before you make contact and nor after you make contact. This allows you to spin it almost 720 during a shot, however you cannot let go of the rod while doing this. (There is one shot, called the snake shot or wrist rocket that starts with the man on top of the ball on the front side of the rod. Then he flips over and strikes the ball and keeps going a bit.)
      It sometimes takes people a bit to learn not to spin, but once they do they are a lot better because of it. If a person is spinning they may get one or two lucky goals, but otherwise they probably can't stop the other player once that player gets the ball. Good players will be able to just pass the ball upfield and then score off of their 3 man rod.
    • I always figured games should be played to the limits of their rules and mechanics. Failing to do so means lost opportunities to improve one's skill, and ultimately leads to an artificial limitation on one's ability.

      Some people are uncomfortable with this level of competitiveness, and prefer to play a much more relaxed game. This is fine, of course, though I don't understand it. I always want to characterize it as "having more fun imposing arbitrary restrictions on gameplay, rather than constantly challenging yourself and your opponents to higher levels of performance". Me, I like the challenging bit. Others don't. As long as I don't accidentally end up playing with such a person, or get punished for being more competitive than my opponent, the two of us can coexist peacefully, I think.

  • Okay then.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:19AM (#4997736)
    > Spend under $50.

    Hey CowboyNeal, bet'ya $49.95 you can't take this laptop, climb inside that foosball table and stay down there while I hammer the surface back on..

  • Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by g00z ( 81380 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:21AM (#4997742) Homepage
    First, I found it sorta wierd that he decided to use director as a front end -- Personaly I would have used flash since actionscript is less archaic than lingo is and for doing dynamic vector stuff flash cant be beat. But hey, more power too him.

    I am, however, curious as to how he is getting this data (1's and 0's) from the serial port to director? I wasn't aware that lingo had any hardware level control (besides the keybord and mouse) -- unless he's got it wired up so the bx board is actualy simulating a mouse click, but he doesn't say. I find myself wanting more details.

    And by the way, the article is a little misleading. $50 for the sensors, breadboard and card reader. Flat screen LCD, foozball table and computer not included. See store for details.
    • First of all i agree that flash would be better but maybe he has a lot of knowledge of director from his studies...

      I believe that the way the data is taken in is by simulating a keystroke which is then captured.

      And finally i dont think this was meant to be an outline for anyone else to do the project. His goal was to only spend $50 but im sure people could do it with less depending on available materials.

    • Re:Lingo and Serial Port Listining.. (Score:4, Informative)

      by TheTomcat ( 53158 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @09:27AM (#4997921) Homepage
      Director has much better support for third-party "Xtras" (plugins). Yes Lingo is a dirty, nasty language (better now that dot-notation is the norm), but I don't think serial-port interaction could be directly possible in Flash Player.

      See: Serial Xtra [clintonstreet.org]

      S

    • I'm very sorry, besides the header is a little misleading I don't see anything innovative or interesting in this project... Back in '87 I had a teacher who used an Acorn and some homebrewn hardware to measure the speed of moving objects and other 'scientific' stuff and then draw graphs of the data gathered.

      What does this fussball table that a pinball machine doesn't? IMHO it is just a rather primitive two person pinball game. Oh yes, it reads smartcards, very impressive.

      Anyway I can image it must have been fun to built it. And... NYU now can measure how much time their students spend on playing fussball.

  • Cool, but... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Harald74 ( 40901 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:21AM (#4997744) Homepage Journal
    ...can it sense your mood when you're loosing?
    • What would make it really interesting, is to have a shocker installed that shocks the opponent with an adequate amount of Volts whenever you score a goal. Maybe the voltage could be increased based on the difference in score or how fast the ball hits the goal. It's just very important that the table does not malfunction if it has such a feature.

      • Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by VikingBerserker ( 546589 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @09:58AM (#4998061)

        What if an incentive system were installed, instead? Considering that most foosball tables are found where drinking is involved, what if a nice, cold beer were dispensed to the player who scores each goal?

        I figure things would get interesting as the player who took an early lead slows his reaction times due to alcohol, thus leveling the playing field.

  • And he got *credit* for this project? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kbs ( 70631 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:21AM (#4997745)
    I'd be curious to know what the original statement of the project parameters were.

    Also, it seems that the encoding on the student card may be the same as what we use; apparently the encoding of the social security number in my student card is the same as the encoding of the social security number at a local supermarket.

  • The goal problem (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kajakske ( 59577 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:22AM (#4997750) Homepage Journal
    Well, he doesn't detect goals for 100%, right ?
    Couldn't he combine the two systems ?

    Like, detect when the ball hits the back plate + when it goes thhrough the vending machine censor. That way, if the ball just rolls in, the vending machine sensor will detect it, when it bounces the plate will detect it, and when they do bot (bounce but roll in anyway) they'll both detect it ...

    It might get him over the $50 when adding extra sensors ofcourse ...
    • That's a great idea. And on the database side, the PC could just discount a goal if it's made within x seconds from another goal.

      Do that!
      • He already has a system which rejects 2 goals in less than 2 seconds so he's already got the solution for that.

        In France, a rebound doesn't count, it has to go in and stay in.

    • I just got a better idea ...

      Why doesn't he just use a sensor in the ball, then marks off the playing field and make some software to detect when and where the ball leaves the playing area. This would also allow four OUT detection, % of ball possion (you'd have to mark the players too, then see where the ball is the most) ....

      Countless possibilities !
    • When we play foosball we rule that the ball has to drop to the return slot to count as a goal. If it hits the back plate and bounces out again we just carry on and blame the Russian Linesman.
    • I have a foosball table similar to that one, albeit larger and heavier. In any case, once you get the case open, the ball invariably rolls down a smaller chute, one per side, to get to the bottom again. Sticking a sensor in that chute which would detect 100% of the time would be damn near trivial.

      He should have spent the time to open it.

  • Umm... security concerns. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by elrond2 ( 619935 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:23AM (#4997755)
    Any system tied to SSN is pretty scary -- even with an MD5 hash the SSN is recoverable due to the small 'keyspace'. Comments?

    • Re:Umm... security concerns. (Score:4, Funny)

      by dr_labrat ( 15478 ) <spooner@gmaiTIGERl.com minus cat> on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:53AM (#4997825) Homepage
      You are absolutely righy, and yet I can't help feeling that it doesn't actually matter.
      Its a foosball game.
      • Ah, but if this becomes a permanent system, now you have proof of where kids are in the school.

        BMCC had a problem with this, where they tracked your entry into various buildings and if you didn't entre certain buildings at certain times, in liu with your schedule, you'd lose financial aid.

        So nw the concern is, is the kid goofing off or in class? At NYU, they don't care.. they just care they are getting money and have someone standing in front of the classroom "giving quality education".
        • BMCC had a problem with this, where they tracked your entry into various buildings and if you didn't entre certain buildings at certain times, in liu with your schedule, you'd lose financial aid.

          This sounds like a rumour. It can't possibly be true. How would they account for two people going through the door at the same time? How about people swiping their card and then not entering the building. Sounds like something they tell the gullible freshman to scare the shit out of them.
    • And the foosball gestapo will show up and take you away, never to be seen again, if you get too good. Can't have you challenging the established foosball hierarchy.

  • What? (Score:5, Funny)

    by MoThugz ( 560556 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:24AM (#4997757) Homepage
    From the article: In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.

    ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?
    • Of course all the software cost >$50 ,not to mention the cost of the machine that runs it.
    • At a first glance I said so what? Then realized what he actually said...and man that's just weird.
    • I don't get it .... what has he written?
    • ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?

      Windows.KNOT?

    • Re:What? (Score:2, Funny)

      by chicks.net ( 566891 )
      ASP script on a Win2k box, tied to an Access DB, which runs MySQL queries, spitting out XML which is parsed in Director. Does this guy actually realizes what he has written?

      Let's just hope that this wasn't for a software engineering course. :) Or NYU grads are in for a rude awakening after graduation.

    • Other than the fact that he said "MySQL" instead of "SQL", I see nothing wrong with what he said. He's got an ASP script on a box running, say, IIS. When you get the script through the webserver, it runs some SQL Queries on the database, and returns an XML document with the results. The Director program he wrote uses getNetText to run that HTTP query to the webserver and get the XML document back. It parses it, and displays it.

      Simple and straightforward. There's easier ways, but that sounds like it was fairly easy to prototype and test quickly. You can test that the script is outputting the right data without having the Director crap done yet.

  • Of course it cost less than $50... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pwagland ( 472537 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:31AM (#4997770) Journal
    He just happened to have:
    1. A large flat screen plasma TV "lieing around"
    2. A spare box running W2K
    3. Licences for MSQL (it was legal, right?)
    4. Licences for macromedia (that control app was made legally, right?)
    5. A Foosball table...
    If I had all that lying around I am sure that I could of done it for $50 as well.... If not... well the licence for W2K alone would break that budget. And that is the cheapest item on the list!

    Not trying to take anything away from the hack, it was very cool, but saying that it cost $50 strikes me as a bit rich....

    • seeing as how this is a school project and the other guy doing the project he linked to also made use of director its likely that they have educational licenses provided by the school or purchased as part of the materials for the course. Of course that still doesn't explain the screen and computer.
      • It's quite feasable that the screen was already there.

        I think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?
        • think he used MySQL which sorts out one of the licencing costs. as for the computer - He must have had a couple of spares lieing around. What sort of a geek would he be if he didn't?

          It seems to me that the author of the page is slightly confused:

          4. Database: IIS/SQL/MS Access

          In my opinion, the most interesting part of the project is the database that ties everything together. When the user swipes his or her NYU card, Director takes this information and sends it to a ASP script (running on an Windows 2000 box that is tied to an Access database). This ASP script runs a MySQL query through Access and spits back XML that contains information on the player (wins, loss, average points per game, number of games played, etc) . This XML is passed back into Director via getNetText and put into global variables which are then fed to the screen at the appropriate time.
          (emphasis mine)

          How you run a MySQL query through Access is beyond me. Heck, does that even make the slightest sense?
          • Reading this made me think of the trolls who talk about "compiling php scripts" and the like... yeah I can see why you'd run a SQL query through ACCESS, but running a MySQL query through Access makes no sense at all...
          • How you run a MySQL query through Access is beyond me


            He problably linked up the mysql database using ODBC. Access can link to tables from various datasources using ODBC. The tables can be accessed just like if it was a "normal" Access table.


            Why on earth he would do that is beyond me. :-)

    • Well, no, it's more like $25,430... all of the other things come with tuition at NYU, presumably ;)
    • Well, as it's a college project, I'd assume they'd have site licences for the software - and probably the hardware used and the table belong to the college too

      So he just had to spend $50 on top of what was already available (or would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer, because they'd actually spent more money on actually buying the computer in the first place?)
      • ...or would you complain to someone who said they'd spent $50 modding their computer, because they'd actually spent more money on actually buying the computer in the first place?

        Actually, since this is a foosball mod, I'd say that you could assume you already had the foosball table. Most foosball fanatics have a foosball player, just as most PC modders have a PC. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that most foosball fanatics have a spare plasma flat-panel sitting in the corner of their basement...

        If I said you could mod a 486 into an Itanium monster for only $15 by:

        1. Using a spare processor, power supply, motherboard, AGP video adaptor, ATA hard drive, etc.
        2. Spending $15 on a ribbon cable to connect the hard drive to the motherboard, since you don't happen to have one of those handy.

        Would you call that a real $15 upgrade?

        Even if we all have PCs lying around the house, chances are we already have those PCs doing something else they are massive overkill. Sure, I can spare an old pentium, but then I'd lose my router...
    • It's typical NYU silliness. NYU students are either

      a) typically rich
      b) getting their degrees slowly
      c) in debt from loans

    • He didn't say it cost less than $50. He said he spent less than $50.
    • most students don't really care much about licensing issues. if it installs and runs, it's ok. while post education, the "legally" part becomes slightly more clear (not moral, but clearer), during education, "legally" takes on a whole new meaning.

  • Cheaper option. (Score:5, Funny)

    by vilms ( 106676 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:32AM (#4997775)
    Spend a tenner on a ball. Get some people together. Find some green space. Use jumpers as goalposts. Play football. Ask one player to keep score.
    Afterwards, in the bar, assess each other's footballing ability in a haze of lager and spittle.
    rinse and repeat.
    • Yeah, but the geek factor is much lower that way.

      • More specifically, it requires you to be able to "get some people together".

        On the other hand, it might actually be possible to develop a sort-of geekiness scale to descibe for this sort of project using exchange rates to convert people, money and parts into a common currency of 'Geeks'.

        To that end, I therefore propose the following first draft exchange rate schedule subject to negotiation, and (of course) public ridicule:

        1 Geek for each potential human participant eliminated.
        1 Geek for each $100 spent on hardware/parts.
        -1 Geek for Each $500 spent on commercial software.
        0.2 Geek for each year of age of legacy or vintage tech parts used (> 5 years).
        1 Geek for each 1000 Lego(TM) blocks used.

        1 Geek bonus if a new language (human or computer) resulted from the project.
        1 Geek bonus for posting it on your web site.
        3 Geek bonus for getting it posted on /.
        5 Geek bonus if your web server doesn't melt as a result.
        10 Geek bonus is your project *IS* the web server.

        I'm sure we can flesh it out a little, but that's a start. so, let's try it out:
        1......1 Human statistician eliminated
        .5......$50 in parts
        -.5......$250 in commercial software (Win2k + Access)
        0......0 Legos
        0......0 Legacy factor (old parts)
        9......Posted on web site, made it to /., server didn't melt.
        =====
        So, by my calculation, this project rates 10 Geeks.

        Not bad, but 90% of that rating comes from the publicity, so I think the scale needs some tuning. I guess the first thing we need to do is calibrate the scale by rating some standard projects so we can figure out what we want a standard 'Geek' to be.

  • cool project (Score:1, Troll)

    by tps12 ( 105590 )
    I was sort of dismayed to see how he seemed to stick with proprietary technologies like Windows and Director. Still, pretty fun project.
    • I was sort of dismayed to see how he seemed to stick with proprietary technologies like Windows and Director.

      My guess is he was familiar with these "dreaded" proprietary technologies and wanted to finish the project sometime before he graduated.

      Often, the best tool for a job is the one you already have handy and know how to use. It was a foosball hack, afterall, and not a governmental census database for an emerging country, right?
  • I'd love to know how it came to be called foosball?
    Is it to do with the German way of spelling it, with that crazy B letter they have?
    I've only ever known it as table football. In fact I couldn't work out what you were talking about at first :)
    • Google for "history of foosball" and you get this. [foosball.com]

      Apparently it's a decades-old transliteration of the German word.
    • Probably - ß actually stands for a double s. Thus, Straße can be written Strasse and Fußball can be written Fussball. I'd guess the 'oo' bit is either someone's misspelling based on football, or someone who thought it was 'Füßball' (note umlaut), which without German characters would be written 'Fuessball' and pronounced roughly 'Foosball' (though with a short 'a' - as in 'ran').
      • I always thought that the German 'u' transliterated as an "oo" sound to most Americans, while :U would most likely transliterate into something with more of an American e sound.

        Although if that was true, we wouldn't call it Munich, we'd call Moernchen.

        • Re:Not a troll, or an Anti-American post but.... (Score:1, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward
          while :U would most likely transliterate into something with more of an American e sound

          Here in Texas the pronunciations of place names given by German immigrants seem to have no connection to how they sound in German.

        • The rule for all the umlauted characters is that when you can't put the umlaut there, you put an e afterward.

          Die Änderung -> Die Aenderung
          (pronounced approximately "End-er-ung", the change), Die Lösung -> Die Loesung
          ("Ler-zung", the solution),
          Die Übergabe -> Die Uebergabe ("Uwber-gabe" - like the sound on the end of the word "who", the transfer/handover).

          Munich's proper name is München, so the transliteration's more like Muwnchen. The ch there isn't a 'ck' - think more of the softish 'ch' in 'Loch', not the hard 'ck' in 'lock'.
    • I wondered that myself, and thought it was a type (on Slashdot? Never!). However, from here [foosball.com]:
      The original game we know as table soccer probably originated in Germany during the late 20's. early 30's

      ....

      The German word for field soccer is ''football'' spelled FuBball .

      The funny-looking ''B'' is pronounced like two S's. hence the many corruptions of that word still used in many sections to describe the game.

      • Even that's wrong - Football is English, German is Fussball. The "weird B thing" is a double-S, and can be written as ss (and is pronounced as you would expect). It's also important to note that the German is pronounced more like "ferssbAl" - note the hard A and that the U is more of an "er". If it had an umlaut (the two little dots over the letter) then it would really be "oo". The way it is usually said, the "b" almost ends up sounding like a "p".
        • I have no idea how Americans pronounce "foosball" or "ferssbal", but as a German I can say that the "u" in "Fußball" is pronounced like the "oo" in "spook" or "hoot". I can think of no way to pronounce "er" that comes close to that. And the "b" is absolutely not pronounced like a "p".

          I'm guessing that "foosball" sounds very close to the german "Fußball", except for the "a".
    • French for this is babyfoot. Don't ask.

      --
      Arkan
    • First place I ever heard it called that was on Friends - I assumed they made it up in some earlier episode! However since then I have discovered that my american colleagues have a table in the office, and they too use the mispronounced german name. Strange, they keep the "table" bit even in Germany!

  • You should see a foosball tournament some day (Score:3, Interesting)

    by idletask ( 588926 ) on Thursday January 02, 2003 @08:53AM (#4997828)

    I was in Nantes when the AFBF [francebabyfoot.com] held the national foosball (called "baby foot" here) tournament. Balls were litterally flying around the table. I considered myself a pretty good player until I saw real champions play...

    Also, the foosball table that the guy used is really gross... He should have used a real foosball table [bonzini.com] instead. Those plasticky tables just suck, no way to lock a ball.

  • Where Can I Get... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    That plasma TV for under $50 bucks?
  • 4. Spend under $50.

    5. Cost of union (onion :) workers to move the tv: $100

    6. School cost of relicensing from MS-SQL to DB2, several thousand dollars.

    7. Expression on student's face when his project doesn't work since he only spent $50: Priceless.

    Seriously, doesn't the professor factor in the cost of other tools, such as the database and other software in?

  • Don't forget... (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Stalemate ( 105992 )
    5) ??????
    6) Profit!
  • You put all this technology into the table and don't even include a 'boo button' for when the other player gets a goal? Come on!! Nothing soothes a bruised ego like hearing the crowd boo the other guy.

  • Webcam (Score:1)

    by p7 ( 245321 )
    All he needed was a webcam and he could have made a much more sophisticated system. Could have kept track of a lot more data.


  • I only ask because there are no screenshots of the stats or score or anything like that. He's got a few pictures of some stuff in a tupperware box and a foosball table on its side. There isn't really a picture that proves this is anything more than an idea the guy had.
  • Here's another question:

    What do you prefer, 3 goalies or one goalie?

    Whenever playing with friends (with two people on a side) I always want to control the defensemen and the goalie (at which I do a frustratingly good job). I've always aboslutely detested tables with 3 goalies on them. They just don't make any sense in my opinion. There aren't three goalies in real soccer (football) and there are 11 guys on a side in real soccer (football), not 13.

  • cost (Score:2)

    by emkman ( 467368 )
    my foosball table came with a scoreboard, timer, prewired goal sensors, and a cool center ball launcher(optional of course), and the whole thing only cost 60$
  • ... you could probably do something similar with...

    a) A plane old computer lying around (I'd even say a 486)
    b) Your favorite distro.
    c) Java.
    d) You could run a clotheshanger through the bottom of the goals and make it complete a circuit when depressed. This could link up to a $5 gamepad or other cheesy input device.
    e) IIS? SQL? For Foosball? You could probably get away with plain text to keep track of things. If he was tracking velocity, shot placement, shot location, angle, number of beers.... well, I don't know how he'd get it. But if its just win-loss-ties, how hard could it be?

    The ID reader was a slick idea though. I'll have to try out a shoppers club card on it.

    Too bad my table sucks.

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