Nethack 3.4.1 Released 290
fatquack writes "Almost a day ago the DevTeam wrote: The NetHack DevTeam is pleased to announce the release of NetHack 3.4.1. NetHack 3.4 is an enhancement to the dungeon exploration game NetHack. It is a distant descendent of Rogue and Hack, and a direct descendent of NetHack 3.3. Get your copy at nethack.org now! (and it fixes the boulder/landmine bug)."
Dying Bug (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dying Bug (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard
Re:Dying Bug (Score:2, Informative)
Angband's home page can be found here [angband.org], but for some reason ther's currently just a placeholder up.
Re:Dying Bug (Score:3, Informative)
www.thangorodrim.net
The page you linked to is that of the old maintainer, who hasn't coded on the game for a few years now.
Re:Dying Bug (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dying Bug (Score:3, Informative)
At least Nethack can stack more than one item on a space. Also it doesn't have that slot machine/pachinko machine appeal that is Angband's main feature.
Re:Dying Bug (Score:3, Informative)
When you find an icebox, it'll usually be full of edibles, but if it's not, spend some time filling it, and remember where it is.
Wearing rings or amulets increases how fast you get hungry, only wear them when needed.
As a last resort, (if you can't pray) you can polymorph yourself into xsomething that doesn't need food (gargoyle) of something that can eat rock (rock mole).
I know all this, but I was playing nethack last night, probably right when this was posted, and I starved, on level 8, on a square with a food ration on it. Ahh, the irony.
Re:Dying Bug (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Dying Bug (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dying Bug (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, the nethack source is beautiful. Normally, C code that has to deal with lots of text looks really bad because it can't trust the string to fit in a buffer, etc. Nethack's UI paradigm seems to work really well with C, and the availalbe C library functions. I love some of the global variable names; There's code like
if (u.have.amulet ) {
Stuff if you have the Amulet of Yendor
}
The other great thing about reading the source code is that you can be entertained by the messages that would be printed if you did certain things, without actually having to spend a lot of time playing to do them. Some of them are corner cases that you might not think of doing. (Read the code for dealing with getting seduced by succubi/incubi. Best message printed by nethack: You sit on the sink. You feel very attracted to the incubus
Re:Dying Bug (Score:5, Funny)
Wait until later in the semester when they teach you about structs.
NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:5, Informative)
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:2)
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:5, Funny)
Bah, didn't hit preview! (Score:3, Funny)
Me: Err... I'm hexediting the new project, just working out a couple of bugs.
<the grid bug bites!>
Me: There's one! Must have got into the system through the power...
<you killed the grid bug!>
PHB: Nice work! I should give you a raise!
Me: How 'bout an office with a door?
PHB: No, people play games if I can't see them working.
Me: I guess that's a good point. I should get back to my work...
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:2)
Not true if everyone else plays too. After I got the amulet out once I decided it was taking up too much time and I really had to stop. Which was a good thing, as my boss had decided the same thing, and my having already stopped when he brought it up was a good thing.
In the 15 years or so since then I've thought new releases looked cool, but even more time consuming, so resisted playing them.
only if you play the ascii version (Score:5, Interesting)
But be careful -- the PHB may not have a clue what all that odd text on your screen really means, but the technical manager probably played it in college himself, and will know at a glance what you're doing. The game has been around for nearly two decades, and in that time, a lot of people you might not expect have probably run across it here or there.
Also, if you're running it on a shared machine, you might want to rename the binary. Any sysadmin who sees "nethack" in a process list will either a) know you're playing games on company time, or b) assume the machine is under attack and panic. Either option may result in effects you may not enjoy....
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:3, Funny)
Boss: "What are you doing, anyway?"
Me: "Am trying to get rid of all those annoying grid bugs we have in our system. Now please, leave me alone, will you?"
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:2)
Re:NetHack is cool because you can play it at work (Score:2)
Been there & vi training wheels (Score:5, Funny)
"Whow, you guys are always doing such techy stuff, it's amazing..." (spoken with absolute naivety)
And hjkl is why I picked up vi so quickly. So I also describe it as a vi training module.
Xix.
Ulch. (Score:5, Funny)
You feel deathly ill.
(Improperly formatted because of lameness filter)
Re:Ulch. (Score:5, Funny)
haha, the joke's on you, i just deleted all of your fil
Noooooo! (Score:4, Funny)
Wow, simultaneous worldwide release. (Score:4, Informative)
They had a simultaneous world release for Master of Orion 3, er, except for the UK, which gets it 10 days later.
You are lost... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You are lost... (Score:4, Funny)
Do the literalists bite the heads off so the grues can get to work?
man these dungeon games are more complex than I thought, symbiotic relationships between monsters - whatever next?
You are in a maze of
>w
You go West (where the air is sweet etc)
In the dark you have your head bitten off by a literalist. The grues feast on your remains. The literalists all go to a cocktail evening.
Yor are dead. Get over it.
Troc
To download or not to download... (Score:5, Informative)
For the ones who don't know what Nethack is: The GameSpy Hall of Fame has a really good piece on Nethack [gamespy.com].
Re:To download or not to download... (Score:3, Informative)
From the GameSpy article referenced in the parent: Rogue was open source, of course, meaning anyone who loved the game could open it up and start tweaking it.
Which it wasn't, IIRC. There were various clones, but the original Rogue was free but licensed binary, right?
Net...hack? (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry--There are GUIs (Score:5, Informative)
W00t (Score:3, Funny)
Misleading title (Score:5, Funny)
I've stumpled upon NetHack here and there and always thought it to be something along the lines of the ancient Neuromancer Amiga game that I loved so much.
Why don't they call it something like "[insert D&D'ish sounding name]: The legacy of [insert other D&D'ish sounding name]
Example:
Crangrall: the legacy of Wanhall
Forthrall: the legacy of Krilltorr
You can all troll me or flame me to pieces now for not getting it.
Re:Misleading title (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah. First there was 'Hack', which was a logical name for a game about hacking monsters to pieces. Then they added a prefix that had nothing to do with the theme of the game, but rather a technicality - hey, it's a game that's developed in the 'Net'. The result is logical in its own way, but completely misleading to those who don't know this.
- WWWWolf, who should get back to the Usenet any week now
Re:Misleading title (Score:2)
Re:Misleading title (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Misleading title (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Misleading title (Score:2)
This was way before "hackers" (crakers) ever became an issue on the Internet. I guess the name just stuck.
It is also quite possible I'm horribly misinformed
Re:Misleading title (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Misleading title (Score:4, Funny)
Sang-Band, a group of mystics who always stopped singing just before you entered the room;
Zang-Band, a Dutch parody of the above;
R. O. Guelike (gooey-lickie), a strange, twisted individual who steals time and productivity from apparently intelligent people.
Angband is, as we know the only way to utter (DON'T say this aloud) Danbg'na, patron saint of all things blue and prickly.
But, as explained abouve in a previous posts it's the Literalists that you have to be careful of, they are always on the prowl and will drag you away at a moment's notice for a quick flogging.
No, I don't know why they like to be flogged by strangers either.
Troc, who is in a weird mood today, sorry.
Re:Misleading title (Score:5, Funny)
That's just part of Nethack's charm.
Back when I was a quasi-regular in rec.games.roguelike.nethack, we'd get about one confused skr1pt k1dd13 per week looking for cr4kz and w4r3z. My absolute favourite of these was the one who said (paraphrased),
I tell ya, you don't get that grade of comedy with Diablo II.
solving the dungeon (Score:2, Interesting)
Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Funny)
A bit too realistic perhaps? ;-)
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2)
Step - search 20 - step - search 20..
It maynot be a lot of fun, put yeah.. you probably can avoid to die THAT easy. Personaly I don't bother realy until it starts looking like a worthwile game.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Informative)
most of the time anyway.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:3, Informative)
Or eat some food. Or kill an animal, then eat it. Or drink some fruit juice. Larry Wall didn't invent TMTOWTDI, you know.
As for praying to your deity... well, if you believe in an interventionist deity, and you're starving to death, what would *you* say the natural response is? I find it quite realistic to have prayer as a last resort when you are cursed, starving, or dying by violence, and the system of sacrifices to placate the gods certainly has parallels in a lot of belief systems.
As to the realism of prayer actually *working*, I think maybe I'll leave that can of flames unopened for now
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2)
So read the source code while you play. It's more fun that way, because you can vicariously enjoy the situations where the messages you see in the code would be printed, as well as die less so you don't piss yourself off so much.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Flamebait)
I remember my most promising game...I actually made it to level 3, where I was almost instantly confronted by a goblin with a wand of magic missile. Zap! Half my hitpoints are gone. I try to run. I get one step away. Zap! The other half are gone. Good-bye character. Good-bye game.
It's just completely arbitrary. There's really no design to it at all. Winning the game is simply a process of playing it compulsively over and over until you finally get lucky and don't die right away and can start building levels. And even then, one wrong move and you're dead. Sorry, I got tired of that game mechanic back in the mid-80's.
And that's the real problem with the game. Nobody on the DevTeam has played a game since Zork, or they'd understand that frustration isn't considered fun any more.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Informative)
The trick with missiles in Nethack is to walk diagonally. If you do it right, and plan where you're going to go before you get there (think Chess or Go) you will be able to get to a door and close it without getting shot. The trick to food and spells and the like is to eat them/cast them in safe places where you know you won't be attacked while you're eating or while you fuck up and accidentally cast "darkness". There is a strategy to Nethack, no question, though i have to admit i've never made it past about level 15 or 20 in the dungeons. The thing that really gets me is monsters that attack faster than you can, because they can outrun you and attack you and there's nothing you can do. (Or is there?) I am guessing the best players just hang around on levels 3 and 4 of the dungeon for ages till they level up enough to have a bit of a safety buffer, but i have a tendency to just go hard. Yeah, it's frustrating as hell... but it's just a time waster, you know? Whatever. There is a bit of strategy to it, but it's like playing Chess against a computer that will always kick your ass.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:4, Interesting)
If you have the misfortune to run into an air elemental, leacrotta, or even rothe before you're prepared, about the only thing you can do is use the E-word (Elbereth) or some other repeatable method to try and scare them away repeatedly. It's a bit tedious, but it can work. I've used it to keep a crowd of 8 orcs, 2 rothes, a mean kitten, and an iguana off of an inexperienced healer's back -- and eventually chop them all up.
Otherwise:
(1) Get speed intrinsic (wand of speed monster, some corpses). Get speed boots if at all possible (right after magic resistance).
(2) Wand of Teleport. Best, because you can use it on you, or on the monster.
(3) Scroll of teleportation.
(4) Wand of digging. Fast escape through the floor.
And of course, a good AC and good weapon. But everybody wants that.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Informative)
Just about any of the big RPGs since the resurgence are far more fun in my opinion than Nethack. Fallout and Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape: Torment, Ultima VII (use Exult [sourceforge.net] to play it) - any of these would be a more entertaining use of my time than playing Nethack.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:4, Interesting)
I can't really agree there. I've played nethack. I've retrieved the amulet. I feel I've "beaten" it for my intents and purposes (please, god, don't flame me about this). I also basically got this far because I stubbornly refused to be beaten down by the game.
I can see the Diablo comparison. They're both hack and slash games. The thing Diablo does not do to you, though, is leave you stranded and basically screwed at the beginning of the game. It doesn't, through lack of balance, force you to continually cycle through characters because the game gave you bad breaks.
The thing is, as a player of both games, I think Diablo is a hell of a lot more fun. Diablo is like nethack with balance. I think, in fact, that people who like to kick back and do some hacking for a while, are much better served by Diablo. Wasting time trying to beat (yeah yeah) nethack was probably a very poor decision on my part. It was a very smart decision on my part to never touch it again.
What I'm saying is, if all you want to do is hack and find treasure and use it on your quest to hack, Diablo is probably going to be more enjoyable. It's easier to get in to, much more friendly and intuitive, and much less likely to leave you in a completely unsalvageable game.
If, on the other hand, you enjoy the randomness of being potentially screwed in every other game you play, well, go nuts with nethack. Some people seem to really enjoy this. That's fine, but it's sure not for me, and I don't think it is for most people. Including those of us with "some parts of the brain still active."
And please, don't tell me about how you can always "work through" problems in nethack. I know, I've played it enough to know the tricks. What you fail to see is that often "working through" will just leave you screwed down the road, even if your immediate problem is solved. I honestly don't find that challenging, I find it irritating.
A game with really excellent balance *will* allow you to screw yourself, but it won't force you to abandon a game you've put hours (or days!) into. It will provide means by which to salvage your game. Even if it means hard work on your part, you'll still be able to do it. Plus, the game won't screw you through ridiculous arbitrary randomness. Sure, you can get yourself killed if you're careless, or stick your neck out too far, but you don't die from "starvation" well into the game because you can't get a bite, or you get poison meat, and your deity decides it's his day off, or whatever. That's just arbitrary and irritating. It isn't fun.
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is why, when people ask, I say "nethack is more of a life simulator".
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is actually one of the beauties of Nethack. If you play, for example, a Wizard, the early game is tough. Really tough. You can't melee, if you use spells too much you starve, you're just screwed at the beginning.
If you play, say, a caveman, you're pretty well off at the beginning-- you can melee anything you meet, and eat most of it once it's dead.
If you survived as a Wizard, the endgame is much easier. Give ol' Rodney the finger and he doesn't bother you so much.
If you played a caveman, the endgame is notably tougher. Your lack of spell-fu means you're pretty much forced to melee everything you meet, which gets old after a while.
Each character is balanced, and has a tougher or easier time in the beginning, middle, and end of the game.
-JDF
Re:Am I the only geek who HATES Nethack? (Score:2, Insightful)
Back in the day... (*looks at calendar*) Okay, it wasn't that long ago... I started out playing adventure games like the Leisure Suit larry series by Sierra. I realize adventure games (collect items, solve puzzles) aren't the same thing as RPG (kill monsters, get XP), but the thing that really frustrated me about the Sierra games was the incredibly stupid deaths...
Let's see, I am play Leisure Suit larry, let's cross the road to see what's on the other side... "SPLAT! Oops, that street is really dangerous! Load a savegame or restart?" Uggh. There goes all my fun.
I didn't really think adventure games were something I could really get into until I started playing ones like the Monkey Island series, The Neverhood, and Willy Beamish (which admittedly you could die in, but it rarely happened). I thought it was really funny when playing Lucasarts's Monkey Island how they poked fun at Sierra by having the character fall off the ledge and then bringing up a parody of the infamous Sierra "You fscked up" screen.
It just amazes me that a game like Nethack even needs to have character death at all. It seems like the game is large and complicated enough to pose a challenge without having your character die suddenly.
What do we need a new version for? (Score:5, Funny)
and long before mozilla (Score:2)
Re:What do we need a new version for? (Score:3, Funny)
How about a kitchen? It could have a tin opener, an icebox, and of course some cleaver-wielding cooks...
Today (Score:5, Funny)
This is my week.
1. Found out wife is pregnant.
2. Our rental has been sold and we have 42 days find a new place/move out.
3. Starting a new job on Monday
4. New version of nethack released
Oh, the inhumanity of it all...
Re:Today (Score:2)
5. Master of Orion 3 is finally released.
I'm going to avoid MOO3... at least until it comes down in price.
I dunno if I can dodge Nethack so easily.
Re:Today (Score:2)
...
Oh, the inhumanity of it all...
Solution? Read slashdot!
In related news (Score:2, Funny)
Almost a day ago... (Score:2, Funny)
"Almost a day ago..."
Ahh, I remember it like it was yesterday, oh wait...
Nethack Question (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Nethack Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Try this index [nicolaas.net].
Even better... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Even better... (Score:2)
Re:Nethack Question (Score:2)
Since no one is a Master and no one has asendended, it was modded as funny.
Yes, I know it has happened, but still work with me.
Re:Nethack Question (Score:3, Informative)
here [sourceforge.net].
It's from a site for a 3D version, but the caps are from original NetHack.
I enjoyed watching it - although grand master it probably isn't - could we start seeing NetHack run-through's appearing on the web the way old Doom and Quake run-throughs are published?!
For anyone who's interested ... (Score:5, Informative)
In the game of Nethack there are many things
If anyone is interested in playing Nethack but you don't want to go through the trouble of setting it up for yourself, you can simply play on my public server. SSH or telnet into fyre.sytes.net with username "yasd", password "yasd". You'll be able to set up a username, preferences, and get started playing Nethack. Good luck with your 'hacking!
If you want to ruin someone's life... (Score:3, Funny)
Modern 3D-Accellerated Version! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Modern 3D-Accellerated Version! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Modern 3D-Accellerated Version! (Score:2, Informative)
http://noegnud.sourceforge.net/shots/20030224-01.
it has mutiple display methods, that's just the 3d-ascii view.
Nethack? duh... (Score:5, Funny)
You find yourself on an empty tile.
Looking northwest you see a large chest.
A grid bug approaches you from southwest.
There's a curved wand 2 squares to the north.
>
Gee... (Score:2)
Direct Descendent? (Score:5, Funny)
Does anyone know if NetHack 3.5 will be a descendent of NetHack 3.4? Someone told me that it was going to be a spreadsheet application.
Amulet of Yendor (Score:3, Interesting)
I love this game, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
My only real gripe is that the first 1/3 of the game is the most interesting. After about level 20, the variety deteriorates, and the game becomes ever more scripted, culminating in the final "ascension" levels, which are the same every time.
I reckon that the great thing about nethack is the fact that it's different every time you play it. To my mind, when the game gained pre-designed levels (e.g. the castle, fort knox, vampire's lair, etc) it lost something of that unpredictability, and hence it also lost some of its legendary ability to remain addictive despite having completed the game numerous times.
To really take the game forward (nh4.0 anyone?), I'd love to say much more emphasis on computer-generated layouts, and much less on pre-scripted plotlines. Here's my (undoubtedly controversial!) list of suggestions:
- Get rid of all completely pre-scripted levels.
- Instead, create more dungeon styles, and have
a multiply branching dungeon. The Gnomish mines
were a great addition, but why just
one of them? Why not be able to have a tree of dungeons,
generated probabilistically? I'd like to see a nethack with a more-or-less
unlimited dungeon space (lots of space for data these days, right?),
always another set of levels to explore, and a real possibility
of getting seriously lost! Imagine: you're at level 15 and
you find 5 down-staircases, each one of which might branch
out further...
- To go with the seriously expanded game space, make hunger
more realistic. In the real world, you can go for days without
eating, and a single animal could feed you for a week.
Why not move in this direction? However, make eating somewhat
harder (no more "You slay the little dog (More) The little dog tasted
terrible!", but perhaps "The fire crackles merrily (More) The roasting
little dog smells delicious (More) You burn your hands on the
roasted little dog corpse"...)
In this sort of game, finding the Amulet becomes genuinely difficult (not just reliant on "finding the little vibrating square" and performing the right actions); some resources become potentially unlimited; others much rarer, such as artifacts.The aim should be to rekindle the wonder of nethack, that sense of awe that's inspired when going down a level and having no idea what you might encounter; to get back to the original, and most compelling aspect of the game: the creativity required to play it.
On second thoughts: don't on any account do something like the above... I'd never escape my addiction!
Actually, Falconseye is a significant improvement (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A good plan? (Score:5, Funny)
I think bullet time would go down well too!
Re:A good plan? (Score:5, Insightful)
When someone feels like doing it.
Personally, I like the game for its playability, not any so-called "multimedia quality". Hell, I still play in ASCII mode (albeit with colour). I'm not a luddite, though - I've played Eye of the Beholder, Diablo, Dungeon Siege etc., and found them reasonably enjoyable for a while, but Nethack is the one that keeps me coming back. 15 years since I first played it (back in the 1.0 days) and it's still fun.
If Nethack is as good as I've heard, it could turn out to be a killer game.
It already is a killer game... lord knows it's killed me enough times :-) But seriously, it's a game developed by a group of people for fun, without the expectation of profit, and it has an intensely loyal following. If you don't like it, don't play it, or do something by contributing to it. But standing at the sidelines and bitching isn't going to do you, or anyone else, any good.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Yes, of course playability is extremely important. That's why I didn't like Dungeon Siege even if it had excellent graphics. I just think some improvements in that area would make the game appeal to more of us.
If you don't like it, don't play it, or do something by contributing to it. But standing at the sidelines and bitching isn't going to do you, or anyone else, any good.
No, and since I'm not able to contribute since I'm no graphics artist or have enough spare time to develop Nethack, I don't play it anymore. I'm just taking the opportunity when the topic was brought up to share my thoughts. I just don't see why Nethack would get worse by improving its aging graphics.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Would a completely new interface be a mass-market success? I doubt it very much, not without also making fundamental changes to the gameplay, by which I mean ripping most of it out - the game just doesn't fit with the instant-gratification culture of today's gaming market. I'm really not sure how you could fit the complexity and flexibility of Nethack's actions with the easy-to-use interface of (say) Dungeon Siege.
Re:A good plan? (Score:3, Insightful)
- The Information density of colored text is quite high. This is because font designers spent years making sure that for your 96 pixels, you got 128 very different looking things. Frankly, the text is easier to read than most tilesets. I know at a glance that two small light blue ds are winter wolves. How many artists can accurately convey 'winter wolf' to me in a 32x32 icon? And make it distinguishable from a silver wolf?
- Having played nethack for 10 years or so, I definitely 'get' the map generator. So I almost always know which rooms have secret doors, where to look for passages, etc. I've found this really hard to do in isometric view. Also, even though I run at 1600x1200, I haven't found an isometric view which lets me see the whole level at a time. Unlike ASCII.
I already am bad enough at the game that I don't need another layer of confusion (What, those were Uruk-hai? Not gnomes?) added to my poor playing. I'll stick with ASCII, thank you very much.Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
You're missing the point.
If these "demands" of mine need Nethack to be some commercial product, so be it.
NetHack would lose something if it got that kind of graphics. But if you like that sort of thing, why not just play Diablo?
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Well, if the poor graphics of a game is the special thing it can't loose, the game surely isn't for me.
But if you like that sort of thing, why not just play Diablo?
Of course I play other games instead of sticking with a game I don't like. It's not like I'm a masochist. I'm just sharing my thoughts.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
It is called Diablo and Diablo 2.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
HEY, my new cereal turned my milk blue! COOL!
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Man, I might read a book, if it had good multimedia quality.
What I would like is pretty pictures and not words.
Skip this letter based system.
Then I'll see if I'm interested.
But the words are simply not immersive enough for me yet.
If these "demands" of mine need Nethack to be some commercial product, so be it. I haven't got a problem with that. If Nethack is as good as I've heard, it could turn out to be a killer game.
-1 Troll (Score:2)
Troll.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2, Informative)
Open a tin of salmon to get rid of cursed rings
Eat a red dragon to become immune to fire attacks
GENOCIDE! Woot!
Dip your sword in a pool after inscribing Elbereth on it to gain a +5 magic sword
And there's millions of little things like that. That's one of the reasons it's called Hack - because it has been "hacked" together by hundred of programmers and is full of "Hacks".
All the time I played Diablo I found myself wishing it had the depth of hack with the graphics and sound of Diablo.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2, Interesting)
Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex are, to my mind, much more immersive than either NetHack or Diablo, not primarily because of the graphics, but because it's possible to do well in these games by thinking like a participant in the game world, rather than as an external player of the game. Much of the best recent Interactive Fiction is immersive for similar reasons, and obviously in the case of IF, the immersiveness isn't to do with the graphics. Adam Cadre's I-0 [adamcadre.ac] is a good example.
I'm aware that some people like the NetHack style of gameplay, but frankly, they're wrong. More to the point, though, I do think the NetHack style, whether good or bad, is distinctly old-fashioned. Merely improving the graphics won't make the game more appealing to those who want a more modern style of gameplay, which seemed to be the suggestion being made by the guy I was originally replying to.
Oh, BTW:
GENOCIDE! Woot!
I can't help but think that's going to be quoted out-of-context against you, one of these days.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Read the source and the spoilers. If I tried to play nethack as if I were actually my @ character, well, I'd probably just get the hell out of the dungeon and live a long life telling stories about how much ass I kicked, but that I couldn't find a taxidermist to make trophies out of all the stuff I killed... What I find fun is to figure out the game and enjoy thinking about the game system and possibilities, not actually doing a lot of stuff. I also play in non-scoring discovery mode.
I don't play very much. I played a lot for a couple days, but I haven't played much since. Still, I could easily see playing some more sometime.
Good point. That's something that really bugs me about some games that want to be immersive. I sometimes give up on a game when I've discovered enough things about the system that I'm just jumping through its hoops instead of feeling like I'm actually doing anything. Some games play ok without being immersive, esp. simple games like tron.
> I'm aware that some people like the NetHack style of gameplay, but frankly, they're wrong.
I suppose people who like to watch TV instead of read books are similarly wrong? (and not because of the content, just the medium.) Things don't have to be immersive to be fun.
Re:A good plan? (Score:2)
Diablo is a point and click game with very little strategy, while Baldur's Gate is a very good story with RPG chars and some strategy. Not too much, you can always reload.
I have played them all, though I found Diablo II quite long and tedious. There is just simply little thinking involved.
But too call nethack simplistic is to make yourself seem so.
Re:Nethack based comic? (Score:2)
Tom.
Re:non-GUI games (Score:2)
Some of my favorites are angband [thangorodrim.net], mangband [mangband.org], slashem [sourceforge.net] and omega [alcyone.com].
For general information, try this [win.tue.nl] or that [www.hut.fi].
Re:I would not have submitted this (Score:2)