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Games Entertainment

Can Game Developer Unrest Lead to Revolution? 281

Bakajin writes "Greg Costikyan's blog article A Specter is Haunting Gaming speaks in coarse language about "despair" in the independent game developing community. He says that despite the fact that no Independent Game Festival title "has ever gone on to major publication and success... 10,000 geeks... would just love to do what the IGF guys are doing... work on something you believe in, not churn out the next big-budget piece of crap." I can't help but read that and think that it represents a huge opportunity for a new game machine that lowers the bar for entry and has a unique revenue model. However, is the story of Indrema a prophesy? Is Infinium just vapor? Is there any other solution?"
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Can Game Developer Unrest Lead to Revolution?

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  • Indepedent... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mattsson ( 105422 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:28AM (#5492735) Journal
    Hey! What's wrong with slashdot today? How come there aren't a couple of hundreds of "First posts" here? =/

    On to my real post...
    Somebody will have to start a underground/independent game label, just like some people do in the record industry when they get fed up with the big labels crappy attitude towards alternative music.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:29AM (#5492739)
      First reply
    • Re:Indepedent... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by pmodern ( 630742 )
      I think mattsson has a point. When record companies pumped out crap deals to artists they got up and started there own labels on shoe string budgets. Granted I am not a game developer but it would seem to me that you could launch a small development house in the same manner. The real issue to be over come would be marketing and people who do not want to pay. (I know that my friends an I pay for the software that we use and enjoy, and not for the stuff we try and loath. However That isn't the norm I'm told.. you could advertise in blogs and try to work deals with some of the game specific sites. while not a complete solution It could be worth a shot to a developer who wants to work at it.
      • When record companies pumped out crap deals to artists they got up and started there own labels on shoe string budgets.

        Yes, but is this a fair analogy? The only thing the record companies add to the product is the marketing and other fluff. Can a group of people produce a game keeping with today's expectations in somebody's garage?

        I think the movie industry is a better analogy, and even some "indy" studios are actually owned by the big guys (Miramax, anyone?).
        • Musicians can usually start making a living (albeit a meager one) without going to university for their careers. Potential developers have those pesky student loans hanging over them, so they don't necessarily have the cash to even shoesting a dev studio on their own.
    • Re:Indepedent... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The problem is not finding a publisher, the problem is *money*. Publishers provide that money. If you want to get rid of publishers, you need some other way of covering financial needs:

      - Open Games: everyone works for free and contributes as he wants. Nice, but I do not know how to build this into a business model (despite the success of Open Source).

      - Limit costs severely: use stock engines, find some way to produce the artwork more cheaply, etc. To help here, developers primarily need good tools: the aforementioned stock engines, but also drawing tools, music tools, organizational tools, etc. Open Source might be a (partial) solution here.

      - Find another source of money. A bank, maybe, or a sponsor. Obviously a sponsor will want control over content, and a bank will want your soul (or at least a decent business plan).

      If you can solve the money puzzle, you will have a workable business model for selling games without a publisher.

      The other services rendered by a publisher (marketing, technical support of various kinds, distribution) can be solved even by an independent developer, as long as he has access to sufficient money.

    • Re:Indepedent... (Score:3, Interesting)

      You just described Ion Storm, except they had to sell out to Eidos to get their stuff distributed.
    • Re:Indepedent... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 )
      Somebody will have to start a underground/independent game label, just like some people do in the record industry when they get fed up with the big labels crappy attitude towards alternative music.

      The problem is that it takes a week to record a CD, plus the time it takes one or two people to write songs (let's say a year). But it takes 30-50 people 2 to 3 years to create a high-end game. There's no indie group capable of this, just as there's no indie group capable of creating a movie like Saving Private Ryan.

      At the opposite end of the spectrum, Greg likes to bring up Snood and Bejeweled and other me-too remakes of many other me-too remakes. Simple games. Ones that could be written for a class project in college. But those games are only one segment of the market. If high-end games collapse, then there's nothing to fill the void. Trifles like Bejeweled may each have their niche, but that's generally not what the people who buy Metroid Prime, Diablo 2, Halo, or even The Sims, are looking for.
  • by Asmodeus ( 10868 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:29AM (#5492738)
    PDAs are cheap, increasingly ubiquitous, and well capable to running games of the complexity which kept me playing over the last 10 years. X-Com Enemy Unknown anyone?
    • by Enfors ( 519147 ) <christer@enfors.gmail@com> on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:39AM (#5492775)
      X-Com Enemy Unknown anyone?

      There's a guy who's planning on making an unofficial clone of X-Com (called X-Force) for PalmOS based PDAs:

      http://www.gotactics.com (click the X-Force link on the left).

      I'm definitely looking forward to that one.
    • True, but there is a already a burgeoning market for cell phone and PDA-based games.

      I have a couple of games on my PDA, no first-person shooters mind you, but still very playable.

      I'd like to see someone develop some of the old classics for PalmOS-based devices...there's plenty of market for it...look at mame.

    • PDA? No, GP32! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Cpt_Kirks ( 37296 )
      If you want an open handheld console to develop for, try the GP32 [www.emu.pl]. With specs like these:
      # CPU 32 Bit RISC CPU (ARM9, 133MHZ)
      # Display: TFT 3.5" Reflective TFT LCD(65,536 colors)
      # ROM 512 Kbytes
      # Storage SMC(Smart Media Card)
      # RAM 8MB SDRAM
      # PC Connection Cable USB Port connection cable
      # Sound 16Bit PCM Stereo Sound, MIDI support (over 32 poly), 4 Channel WAV Mixing
      # 32Bit RISC CPU
      # Definition 320 X 240 Pixels
      # Power 2 AA Batteries (12 Hours use time between charges)
      # MP3 MPEG(I,II) Audio Support
      # Controls 8-Way directional pad (joystick) + Durable 6 key buttons
      # Wireless multi-player gaming
      # Internet Connectivity
      # Online multiplayer game can be played by high-speed Internet connection

      How can you go wrong?

      • "How can you go wrong?"

        Got a graphics chip in there? If not, a good chunk of that 133mhz is going to be dedicated to pushing pixels around the screen.
        • No graphics chip, just the ARM graphics routines.

          However, the GP32 has an afterburner type light coming out later this month. You will be able to buy a GP32 with the light, have it installed or get a kit to install it yourself.

          The screen is already soooo much better than the GBA. The divx movies and MP3s rock too.
  • Marketing/Awareness (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kruetz ( 642175 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:31AM (#5492743) Journal
    I think one of the biggest issues may be that no-one (or very few people) hears of the games these independent producers make. It may well be an issue with marketing budgets, and the fact that the big game companies/publishers can saturate the game market with relative ease.

    Perhaps good ol' /. could review/announce some independent games and see if that boosts their sales? Then again, /. crowd = linux lovers = open source = no pay for software!

    *ducks* flurry of AOL CDs

    Also, the independent games I've seen (I haven't seen many - maybe three) didn't feel nearly as polished. I know they have bugger-all budget and the small touches are really hard to do well, but perhaps that's what it takes to get a lot of people to seperate themselves from their cash. Either that, or invent really addictive games like Civilization or something.
    • by olman ( 127310 )
      There's plenty of 1st class stuff from independent companies. Steel Beasts and Combat mission come to mind. Also Space Empires IV. Latter is under Shrapnel games which imo is not a very good distributor at all. They want all of the pie, period. That means if a local chain wants to buy a few dozen copies.. No way, José!

      What these things have in common is a good core game that lacks some polish. Eye candy plus retail availability tends to kick in with the sequel when the guys have some . Unfortunately most of the game magazines are very crappy.. About as good journalism as Ziff-Davis is known for. They'll give half a page max for superb game such as Arx Fatalis but run 8-page hype/preview about unreal II. Which turned out to be rather ho-hum experience.

      Fortunately for us Finns, the local "Pelit" magazine is rather classy. Almost no hype articles, no exclusive reviews with pre-written script, not afraid to call a spade a spade. I understand the US edition of PC Gamer was their original role model way back when. Anyone heard of a semi-decent games mag in UK?
      • ACE was brilliant during the 1980s, and Edge was great during the 1990s. But since Edge's decline in to a run-of-the-mill games mag there isn't really anything worth buying. Luckily GAME, a UK games retailer, allows you to return a games within 14 days for a full refund (and for any reason, including: "it sucked"). Thus I just buy games I think I'll like and play them for a week - if it's crap I can return it and try another one.
  • Not entirely (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dreamchaser ( 49529 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:31AM (#5492745) Homepage Journal
    Games like Serious Sam and others show that small, independant teams can still produce a good game that sells well.

    This trend has happened in other industries over the years, however. Once any given industry starts to 'mature' and gain critical mass, it becomes harder and harder for smaller outfits or independant entepeneurs to make it. It is a problem of scale. It used to be much cheaper to produce a game, but now the costs are rising to the point where VC's don't want to risk their money on small, unknown outfits.

    I don't think the industry is 'fucked', but there are fundamental changes that have been going on over the past few years. This is nothing new, it's just starting to reach a point of critical mass.
    • Re:Not entirely (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hikousen ( 636819 ) <info@@@heavycatweb...com> on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:03AM (#5492865) Homepage
      It used to be much cheaper to produce a game,

      It still is. A good programmer and artist team can build a game for a few hundred dollars.

      but now the costs are rising to the point where VC's don't want to risk their money on small, unknown outfits.

      VC's don't invest in computer games, despite the romantic myth of the perfect game start-up.

      Of course, the idea of a VC who doesn't want to risk their money is amusing enough on its own. If they want a sure thing, they should buy T-bills.
      • Re:Not entirely (Score:2, Insightful)

        by mrlpz ( 605212 )
        "It still is. A good programmer and artist team can build a game for a few hundred dollars."

        When was the last time you priced out ( or actually paid for ) development tools ? Hmm ?

        Have you SEEN what it costs to just buy some of the development SOFTWARE (nevermind hardware/ target equipment ) ? Try pricing out some of that. Unless you're in Academia ( in which case, note that your "license" to that development software probably doesn't grant you to produce software for commercial use anyway. Not that anyone's noticing. ), it's INCREDIBLY expensive.

        I remember when I paid $99 for Turbo C, and a friend and I produced a couple of "GO"-based games. Or when we paid $199 for Manx C for the Amiga ( and MAN did that purchase stretch my pocket at the time, after just dishing $1500 for the Amiga 1000 and monitor ), and wrote a Sargon knock-off we shared with our friends.

        These days, we're talking upwards of a $1000 for a "Professional" grade IDE under Windows. The fact is, most of the development systems for these "mobile" platforms, exist hosted under Windows ( No argument from you Linux or Mac folks. I'm actually one of you, but I have kids to feed and clothe, ok ? )

        No offense to Borland, but even the cost of C++ Builder has gotten ridiculous.

        New sig: Innovate, don't succubate.

      • It still is. A good programmer and artist team can build a game for a few hundred dollars.

        I'm assuming you're not factoring the salaries of the programmer and artist team into that few hundred dollars... :)
    • Re:Not entirely (Score:3, Informative)

      by chrisos ( 186835 )
      "Games like Serious Sam and others show that small, independant teams can still produce a good game that sells well."

      Look at what has happened to Serious Sam, what was an independant's development, has now moved into the realm of the big budget, proven product, follow-up.

      My brother has been working on the sequel for months now, there are still many months to go, and he is just a part of the whole machine, there are several people who have been working all those months on just the artwork for the next edition, who knows how many people have been working on the project in total? (OK, the producers probably do). That certainly was not the case for the first game in the series.

      Which all goes to prove your point about the maturation of the industry. lets face it, if you had to bankroll 20 artists/developers/directors/producers/whatever for 18 months - 2 years, then pay for the product advertising, you would want to be pretty certain that the money wuold be comming back in the end.

      The industry certainly isn't fscked, it has just moved from the bedroom to the boardroom.

      If people still bought games like 'Elite', it would still be possible to have two guys in a bedroom making the games. But consumers these days have sophisticated tastes, that require a team of artists to produce a look and feel, people to do level design, people to write graphics engines, and physics models, designers to do the design, testers to test, etc., etc. And the consumers expect more the next time, so the next job requires more effort, or the reviews are bad and the game does not sell and the MD has to sell his Ferrari :(

      I'm not knocking the idea, I'm sure it is possible to do something like this out in the world of open source, I know there are people already out there developing platforms and engines for this kind of stuff, I guess we need more members of the Free Art Federation and the Free Level Designers Federation and so on.
  • amen (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:33AM (#5492753) Homepage Journal
    The industry is fucked. It's less imaginative, more risk averse, than the fucking music business. It makes Hollywood look happy to take a flyer on talent.

    Crappy CDs only cost 20 bucks. Crappy games cost around $50 bucks.

    And personally, I'm sick of strategy games with the same format but just different units over and over again.
    • "Crappy games cost around $50 bucks."

      Crappy games don't cost anything if you download the demo first.
  • Solution? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ryvar ( 122400 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:34AM (#5492757) Homepage
    Work together or die seperately. It's that simple. A solid common platform needs to be developed, BSD licensed (YES BSD in this case - actual real money needs to be made selling it).

    The biggest problem, though, is artwork. The best solutions I've seen are a) a creative commons-like approach and b) an entirely parametric object mesh/texture-definition approach with an open library. I don't hold out much hope for the former and the latter is another generation or two off in technology.
    • "BSD licensed (YES BSD in this case - actual real money needs to be made selling it)."

      Hi, I've been seeing this quite a few times here on Slashdot.

      The BSD license is LESS restrctive than the GPL, not more so. You can use the BSD licensed code in commercial products to sell them, unlike GPL.

      Now I'm not sure if you meant use bsd licensed CODE or did you mean license the game with the BSd license ?

      I think you meant the latter. So as far as price, that would still make it an open source project, it'd just be even MORE so.

      Maybe I didn't catch your meaning.

      but I'd like to make sure peolpe understand the BSd license is a lot less restrictive than the gpl, so if you DONT want people copying your code, don't use that one or you'll be in for a little surprise.
      • I think he meant that the library should be BSD to help its adoption with commercial game developers.

        Though personally the LGPL seems more sense, this is the kind of situation it was designed for.

  • Some Independent Game festival winners can go on to publication, but if they are not with the majors then distibution can be a problem. King of Dragon Pass (http://www.a-sharp.com/kodp/) is a great strategy and story creating game. It is innovative, different and delivered with passion. Yet its very differences made it hard for magazines to understand when reviewing and for distributors to comprehend when being asked to take it.

    It is a shame, because games like King of Dragon Pass deserve far more recognition than they get. I expect that most people here have never heard of it let alone played it (even some slashdotters who may by ex-RPG players and remember Runequest and Glorantha fondly).

  • Games == Music (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MaestroSartori ( 146297 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:35AM (#5492765) Homepage
    IAAPGD (professional game developer)...

    In this regard, the game biz is much like the music biz.

    Both have a huge thriving independent scene, which contains bucketloads of talent. This is where you tend to go to get technical innovation, new ideas, or just off-the-wall insanity. There's a fairly low initial requirement to do it, since all you really need is a computer, although other equipment (instruments/devkits) can make certain things much easier.

    The alternative to this indie scene is to 'sell out' - join a player in the organised business-oriented world of AAA hit-driven titles, which make money often at the expense of creativity. There are exceptions to this (be they Radiohead or Rez/Ico), but most things fit that rule (Fifa 2000/1/2/3/etc).

    I'm a sell-out. I didn't want to make indie games, particularly. I wanted to make a living doing stuff I liked... :)
    • Re:Games == Music (Score:2, Insightful)

      by krasni_bor ( 261801 )
      In this regard, the game biz is much like the music biz.

      I think the game industry is becoming much more like the movie industry. It takes a genuinely big budget and a big team to make a polished "blockbuster" game, just like a blockbuster movie. A professional recording can be made of any band or performer, from hacks to virtuosos for a few tens of thousands of dollars.

      • Re:Games == Music (Score:5, Insightful)

        by kin_korn_karn ( 466864 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @10:15AM (#5493289) Homepage
        Record companies do pay for talent. They're paying for the ears of the best engineers and the most predictable producers in the world. They know that producer X will deliver them an album that sounds a certain way, every time, and that engineer Y will make the guitars sound a certain way and the drums loud and have perfect separation on the vocals. The artists in pop music are largely interchangeable as long as the producer makes them sound a certain way.
    • I call BS :) (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bpm140 ( 92250 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @10:18AM (#5493309)
      IAAAPGD

      I've been to the last couple of GDCs and seen independent gaming's "best of the best". I've also downloaded hundreds of demos from independent developers. They're not very good.

      This statement can be split into two different areas -- gameplay and presentation. Anyone in the industry can tell you about the legions of fanboys who want to "reinvent" the FPS genre by adding an autocannon, or "save fighting games" with this really cool interactive environment ideas. Just because you love games does not make you a game design, any more than a love for music makes you a musician. I'm not saying you have to be a professional to have good ideas, but if you took a random sample of 100 professional game developers and 100 indies, the pros would have the most exciting ideas hands down.

      The other side of the coin is presentation. Game costs are ballooning and people expect their games to look like Gran Turismo and Tekken and you WILL be knocked by the consumer, the press and the almighty retailer if you fall short. A group of independent developers with a staff of six will find it tough to compete. Even if they have kick-ass gameplay, without polished presentation it will never hit the over-crowded store shelves.

      A lot of professional games are crap. It's romantic to think that the answer lies with independent developers. I think we're better off trying to balance the power between developer and publisher AND publisher and retailer (the former will never happen without the latter), so that developers have a better ability to stick to their guns.

      • I call your BS. (Score:2, Interesting)

        Yes, hard core pc gamers expect the latest 3d and etc....but not everyone is a hardcore gamer. Some people don't care about graphics as long as they look good. Not spectacular and jaw dropping, just no ass-ugly. if you look at the game industry like the movie industry, then the indie gamers *should* do what the indie movie industry does, and use the lower budget/less effects to their advantage...
      • Re:I call BS :) (Score:3, Insightful)

        by startled ( 144833 )
        "I've been to the last couple of GDCs and seen independent gaming's "best of the best". I've also downloaded hundreds of demos from independent developers. They're not very good."

        Orbz was sweet. Uplink was small-time, and very good. Insaniquarium was a fun dealie for a while. What do all three of these have in common? They're good for a short amount of playtime. Why don't I mind that they lack longevity? They're cheap; and most big budget games lose my interest after a couple hours anyway.

        "The other side of the coin is presentation. Game costs are ballooning and people expect their games to look like Gran Turismo and Tekken and you WILL be knocked by the consumer, the press and the almighty retailer if you fall short."

        If you're charging 10-15 bucks for your game, they're quite forgiving, actually.

        "A group of independent developers with a staff of six will find it tough to compete. Even if they have kick-ass gameplay, without polished presentation it will never hit the over-crowded store shelves."

        No one with a clue is suggesting that indies try to get on store shelves. You can't get into Walmart, don't even try.

        "I think we're better off trying to balance the power between developer and publisher AND publisher and retailer (the former will never happen without the latter), so that developers have a better ability to stick to their guns."

        There are two inherent conflicts which this doesn't solve, and which make the niche for indie games quite clear:

        a) Innovation is risky; polish is expensive. Testing a new mechanic for the first time shouldn't be done in a $5 million title-- it's a waste of money. You WILL need to change things. Look at Sims Online-- did they really need to spend that much money on polish to discover that the mechanics didn't work?

        b) Big titles need big sales. You can't target a 200,000 person niche with a $5 million title. Say you're really successful, and hit 25% of that niche-- you sell 50,000 titles. An indie would LOVE those sales. EA would take a serious loss. Besides, if you're into, say, naval simulations, you'll do without the pretty cutscenes and be happy for the deep gameplay without all the frills.
  • by Scrab ( 573004 )
    Tell us what you really think.....

    More to the point tho, does the write actually suggest anything that might be DONE about this problem, this "palpable sense of frustration"?

    Just my £0.02

    Scrab
  • by James_Duncan8181 ( 588316 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:37AM (#5492769) Homepage
    Games have gone mainstream so just like you get easy funding for middle of the road MPAA crap, EA seems to have a good living putting out endless sequels to FIFA, formulaic platformers etc.

    Unfortunately there is no real 'Arthouse' scene in gaming as it is still quite hard to market a game online without money, and you denfitely won't get any shelf space as an independent.

    This is one area where open source could fill somewhat of a gap, but the OSS spirit in gaming is mostly present in the mod community (pre commerical CS, Urban Terror etc) because of the extremely difficult nature of making a game engine.

    This is why I don't think you will ever see a blockbuster OSS title, and I feel increasingly few will come from independents as we drift to a few major studios.

    Sad, but who else is betting we have a GIAA* in a few years?

    Games Industry Assoc of America

  • by k98sven ( 324383 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:37AM (#5492771) Journal
    In the words of the article.

    Game development is not what it used to be. Nor will it be again. Get over it.

    As computer games have become mainstream entertainment,
    the industry has also gone the same way:
    A few large companies serving 99% of the audience.

    Anyone who is litterate can write a book.
    Anyone with a camera can make a movie.
    Very few writers get published, and few amateur moviemakers go big-time.
    Why would it be any different for game developers?

    Writers can always publish themselves and there's always UHF freqencies
    and public-access for the amateur TV-producer.
    Shareware and such are the computer game equivalents of these.
    Nothing wrong with that. Many Hollywood directors started out with a Super-8 as well.

    But please, don't pretend that you can turn back time to when competitive computer games
    could be produced by a lone independent developer.
    • But please, don't pretend that you can turn back time to when competitive computer games
      could be produced by a lone independent developer.


      Wow. You really bought it all didn't you? Horses, trees, even the dog.

      There are thousands of units of independently produced games being sold right this minute. Thousands.
      • There are thousands of units of independently produced games being sold right this minute. Thousands.

        Sure. And there are also thousands of people watching UHF television as well.

        Would you say that they're competing with the major TV-networks? I wouldn't.
    • Well said - this story sounds similar to the one yesterday about a request for government assistance for independent gaming companies. Computer gaming has gone big-time, so the stakes have gotten higher for all parties involved. What that also means, however, is that the rewards have also grown for those who can achieve success. Compelling games can still make it big from humble beginnings, but they can't expect to compete side-by-side on the shelf at Best Buy with the major titles.
  • by MS_is_the_best ( 126922 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:37AM (#5492772)
    To come up with something innovative is more difficult in a mature market then a new one. In the beginning a lot of titles were innovative (started a new game genre). Now almost everything is done. Look at the already matured music or movie industry: almost all products are a variant on something else.

    Sometimes a new genre becomes mainstream, but mostly that just means that the genre already existed, but comes to the attention of the masses (for example old tunes used in a commercial influence newer pop music).

    However we do not have to despair, sometimes a real new movie concept comes up (and has of course a lot of follow-ups...) or someone writes a real new composition.

    The frequency of innovation is just lower. This will also be the case in the game industry.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:40AM (#5492781)
    Software Testing is not politically Correct.

    NEW YORK -- People for Ethical Treatment of Software (PETS) announced today that seven more software companies have been added to the group's watch list of companies that regularly practice software testing.
    "There is no need for software to be mistreated in this way so that companies like these can market new products." said Ken Grandola, spokesperson for PETS. "Alternative methods of testing these products are available"

    According to PETS, these companies force software to undergo lengthy and arduous tests, often without rest, for hours or days at a time. Employees are assigned to "break" the software by any means necessary, and inside sources report that they often joke about "torturing" the software.

    "It's no joke," said Grandola. "Innocent programs, from the day the are compiled, are cooped up in tiny rooms and "crashed" for hours on end. They spend the whole lives on dirty, ill-maintained computers, and are unceremoniously deleted when they're not needed anymore".

    Grandola said the software is kept in unsanitary conditions and is infested with bugs.

    "We know that alternatives to this horror exist." he said, citing industry giant Microsoft Corporation as a company that has become successful without resorting to software testing.

    • According to PETS, these companies force software to undergo lengthy and arduous tests, often without rest, for hours or days at a time.

      It gets worse! Have you heard of Mutation Testing, where the poor programs are subjected to damaging fault injections over and over again? Oh the humanity!

      Phil

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:42AM (#5492787)
    Despite the hype, there are an increasing number of "Garage Games" out there.

    A good example is the recently beta-turned-gold "A Tale in the Desert". Its a non-combat online 'builder and skill' team-based egypt sim. No charge for the program itself. Free download, Free trial pay-to-play game.

    Without even bothering with a retail presence, new games exist out there. I tend to keep an eye on http://www.betawatcher.com/
  • ARt (Score:2, Insightful)

    I was kind of hoping that games would become an art form and be taken as seriously as films, records or books by the creative establishment. Instead we have bypassed the artistic stage altogether and fallen straight into the hollywood cash-cow wasteland. I cant even see how games could get out of that, although Peter Molyneux seems to have some ideas judging by yesterday's article.
  • I can only think of one Spector [mobygames.com] haunting the game industry.

    Is he causing despair by making games that are too good?
    • Yes, well done, you spotted the pun in the title. If you'd read the article you'd have found out that Greg Costikyan and Warren Spector are old high school friends. (They developed TOON and Paranoia together.)

      Spector gave the "everything is fine!" speech that annoyed Greg.
  • by j1mmy ( 43634 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:45AM (#5492798) Journal
    This isn't exclusive to the gaming industry. Reality is that you can't always enjoy what you do to earn a living. People simply aren't willing to pay for that.
  • I have to disagree. (Score:5, Informative)

    by will_die ( 586523 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:47AM (#5492807) Homepage
    Thier are numerious games being developed by small or independent developers, that self sell. Look in the area of stategy turn-based war games and text adventures for alot of them.
    As alot of big name game are actually produced by small independant companies, they just use a big name company for production and distribution. For example look at Galactic Civilizations,Black and White, or Rise of Nations all developed by small companies.
    The one thing I would agree with is the lack of new/original things, but that happens in everything. People are going to write stuff that they think will sell, good luck trying to find a murder/mystery written totally in poetry form.
    In addition once you get big name enough to do what you want, you are generally going to write software in the same. The origins of The Sims, mentioned as original, can be seen if you look back at previous Will Wright games. What would be original is if Will Wright came out with a FPS shooter based in his genre of games.
    • good luck trying to find a murder/mystery written totally in poetry form

      Man, I think I actually did one of those. Not on a computer, as a jigsaw puzzle. One of those clues-from-the-puzzle things. (Further proof that single fathers rapidly become their own grandmothers, but I digress.)

      In addition once you get big name enough to do what you want, you are generally going to write software in the same... What would be original is if Will Wright came out with a FPS shooter based in his genre of games.

      Well, not original exactly, but at least it would be a hybrid between genres. Aren't these companies averse to even that level of risk, though? Take a look at that puzzle/mystery thing I did: mysteries and puzzles are two big deals for older folks, so they tried a crossover idea. There are game titles like that; WWII Online has both a strategic side and a shooter side. Black and White is a sort of God game crossed with a hey-you-Pikachu creature-interaction thing, maybe?

      But most titles are dead center tries at one genre or another. You can glance at a box and know basically everything there is to know about how a game will play. Feels like I already played most of 'em. C'mon, cross-pollinate, at least.

  • Sigh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:49AM (#5492813) Homepage Journal
    This paragraph says it all
    The industry is
    fucked. It's less imaginative, more risk averse, than the fucking music business. It makes Hollywood look happy to take a flyer on talent.
    It often happens that the entry barrier in an industry becomes so high that the trend is towards bigger and bigger developing houses, less imagination, and swallowing up of the smaller players. When this happens the only thing that can change the situation is a radically new idea or development model. It happened with UNIX in the 80's. Two things overthrew that stagnating giant: Microsoft and RMS/Linus. It is happening with processors (though its not so bad). Maybe things like the Dragon from China and the Simputer from India can shake things up a bit. It's happening with the music industry. I have no idea what's going to happen. And yes, its happening with games. Can it lead to a revolution? Maybe, if gamers get sufficiently fed up with the current setup.
    • Re:Sigh (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Lemmy Caution ( 8378 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @11:57AM (#5494223) Homepage
      It's not just that. It's also the fact that the industry is still largely driven by its target market: adolescent boys. Not that there's anything wrong with developing content for adolescent boys, but that market's taste for experimentation is somewhat limited. The games that innovate are often found boring or weird by the usual target market - games like The Sims or Mister Mosquito. (There are a couple games that I consider masterpieces that are liked by the mainstream gaming market - GTA3 and Final Fantasy X - but the former has already become a center for a genre of its own).

      Part of the problem from the side of the game industry is its knee-jerk hostility towards being anything other than a business - they don't want to see themselves as part of a cultural discourse, they don't understand how a "high art" and "experimental/avant-garde" wing to the media can come back and recharge the mainstream one.

      I think that what might happen is that more art and film schools will start teaching more game design - that's what will recharge the media.

  • New game machine? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MaestroSartori ( 146297 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @08:49AM (#5492817) Homepage
    a new game machine that lowers the bar for entry and has a unique revenue model


    Isn't this somewhere that open source is in theory already paving the way?

    Stuff like SDL [libsdl.org], even Java, have surely lowered the bar far enough that cross-platform home computer games can be made easily enough. Making for a console is a whole different ballgame of course, since they're essentially completely proprietary embedded systems (yes, I'm counting the PC-like Xbox here).

    I suspect that revenue models are a bigger problem, combined with distribution. To earn enough from a game paid for in very small chunks (say a free demo, then paying for new levels), you'd need to be damn sure people would keep buying them. Also, you'd need to be sure that people were honest enough not to just slap then into their P2P apps...
    • Making for a console is a whole different ballgame of course, since they're essentially completely proprietary embedded systems (yes, I'm counting the PC-like Xbox here).

      This isn't entirely true. The Sega Dreamcast has a great homebrew community around it, mainly because the DC doesn't require a modchip to run non-Sega code. All it take is a binary burned to CD-R. Of course, the homebrew games aren't quite up to the standards of professional efforts, but the open-source KOS toolkit is getting better everyday.

      As for the Xbox, all you really need is a $75 modchip, since it's just x86. And the Linux kit for the PS2 has opened doors for homebrew development on that platform.

      The only system you're really SOL on is the GameCube. But I'm sure someone will find a way around its protection, too.
    • Re:New game machine? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by evbergen ( 31483 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @10:18AM (#5493313) Homepage
      I suspect that revenue models are a bigger problem, combined with distribution. To earn enough from a game paid for in very small chunks (say a free demo, then paying for new levels), you'd need to be damn sure people would keep buying them. Also, you'd need to be sure that people were honest enough not to just slap then into their P2P apps...

      Well, instead of trying hard and investing lots of energy to collect pay /after/ you released your product, why not have an auction site for game development projects to allow gamers to fund these /before/ the result is released to the world?

      A team with a good reputation could outline its plans and say, we need two million euros to cover development costs, our expenses and to make a good living while we're developing this game. Please send your money here. If we don't receive our budget within three months, we cancel the project and pay everyone back 95% of what they contributed (5 % to cover auction costs and living expenses).

      This would work for any creative product: literature, software, games, books, movies; it allows you to make money from supplying information without having to supply distribution- or other services, but prevents nasty things like copyrights and licenses.

      The only thing is that people who have paid $100 and have received a great game, must learn not to whine anymore when others are playing that game for free.

      If they think about it, they have little reason to either, because people who are enthusiastic about this game are likely to help make their favourite authoring team's next, bigger, better production possible.

      Another nice property is that gamers are the ones actually investing here, instead of the banks funding initial costs. The latter tend to favour minimal risk over maximal fun and innovation; gamers may choose to strike a slightly different balance.

      You just need some searching infrastructure to allow people to find the authors in whose products they want to invest, and a financial institution such as a bank that could be the trusted party to guarantee that people get paid back if not enough money was collected before the deadline.

      Why not? Any reasons why this wouldn't work?
    • A lot of the latest games come with the ability to write subgames using their engines.

      There are even a few previously released games that are freeware now with such an engine. Dink Smallwood [rtsoft.com] comes to mind.

      And for RPGs or interactive fiction a single individual can surely still do their thing. It's even possible to put them on the web [freeshell.org].

      Not polished? That's crap. To me, polished means no bugs, and an excellent storyline that makes sense. My old games don't crash, and the whole game isn't "go kill the monster and level up." The new ones I've got seem to crash much more often, and I haven't found much BESIDES go kill the monster.

      Nearly all of my old games where made by six people or less, but the new ones...

      I would also like to note that the best game I've ever played was an independant one.
  • All very well (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's all very well for Greg Costikyan to wax lyrical on how the industry is fucked because no-one will invest $3m in his "novel gameplay concepts".

    I'm pitching a PS2 game to a publisher RIGHT NOW for £50K. Get competitive, Greg, this is business.
  • by nut ( 19435 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:13AM (#5492913)
    I am currently contracting in the UK, which means I am constantly looking for work in the current climate.
    I've noticed, from subscriptions to services like jobserve [jobserve.co.uk] and gojobsite [gojobsite.co.uk] that there is a recent and fast-growing demand for J2ME games developers for Java-enabled phones and PDAs.

    They all seem to ask for about a year's experience in J2ME, evidence that you have written games before and that you are, 'passionate about games development.'

    I don't know if this one or a small group of companies or if it's lots of small start-ups. Anyone know anything more about this?

  • by jarnies ( 626975 ) <eslivken AT yahoo DOT com> on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:17AM (#5492939)
    you can make good movies very cheaply, same with music, but it is tough to do the same with videogames. notice how good independent movies dont go crazy with special effects but instead have quality acting and story (or at least some bizarre premise). games need to do the same. big problem is that there are a reasonable amount of people willing to watch a movie even if it is filmed on with a handheld and takes place in someones apartment, as long as the story is worthwhile (clerks, etc.) while most folks buy the next gen console/computer for more power better graphics etc. cheap games dont take advantage of that so it is hard for them to work there way into the market.

    now here is an idea that may work. take a selection of independently developed games, have those guys get together, or some interested third party, and release the games as a package. make it like the online music services where you can choose which games you want included in the package. they could then monitor which particular games are chosen the most and do further development with those.
  • Entertaining. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bazzargh ( 39195 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:28AM (#5492998)
    Interesting article. The comment about independent labels seems a bit screwy though - "I said that gaming needs an independent label" part of what music indies are about is that there are a plethora of them. Unusual games, like unusual music, will rarely be mainstream, so indies are by nature small. If you want to get independent games, you need to look at how the indie music circuit works.

    Bands form, play to local audiences, get some radio time (eg John Peel session over here), get broader sales off the back of that, get signed by an indie, which in turn gets bought out to run as a subsidiary of a major player (think Creation records, for example, bought out by Sony)

    The margins at each level are small enough that you need to get bigger backing to support the up-front costs of making sales into the next larger market. Bands don't need a label to do a 1000 pressing release; Independents don't need major backing to do a release in the UK; they do to go global.

    If this is really where gaming wants to go, then they need to think about how to make money on a '1000 sales' game; how to make money on a '50,000 sales' game; and how to get backing from a major for a global game (250,000+ sales; figures plucked out of the air, probably unrealistic).

    The distribution models for the consoles - with a license fee paid to the mfr, special disk pressing costs, etc, seem to me to put it beyond what can be economically done for '1000 sales'. The games market, unlike the music market, is pretty much a national game at the lowest level anyway, which means there's a huge barrier to entry for indies.

    The economics of this are fairly compelling. You can't economically do a few thousand sales to a national market. So, you have to increase your margins. Sell downloads not media, sell direct to the public, produce games in less time (ie less complex games). The media limitation means that it is /extremely unlikely/ there will ever be an indie scene for consoles.

    -Baz
    • The games market, unlike the music market, is pretty much a national game at the lowest level anyway, which means there's a huge barrier to entry for indies.

      I don't know. Have you ever considered calling up the local Game Spot or EB and ask them to stock your game? There are also local book stores, museums, etc that all have one person you can contact to get stocked.

      The gaming market is not national. Last I checked it is purchased one copy at a time. A CDR costs $1 to make, and a case can be printed up for another $1. The rest is hard work and hustle, which seems to be out of fashion.

      I think the real barrier for innovation is the fact that nobody wants to do the REAL work required to make a product sell.

      • Re:Entertaining. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ChaosDiscord ( 4913 )
        Have you ever considered calling up the local Game Spot or EB and ask them to stock your game?

        Big chains like EB are actually paid by publishers to put the game on their shelves. They also don't pay the publisher for the game until it actually sells. If it doesn't sell, the publisher has to pay shipping to take it back (or they can retroactively lower the price, which is why bargin bins exist). In some cases a store makes more money from publishers than from actually selling the game. Furthermore, purchases are done in huge quantities by central warehouses, not on a store-by-store basis. They don't want to talk to you unless you can supply 1,000 copies (two copies per store). So, you get to pay them to take 1,000 copies of your game which they can return to you if they decide it won't sell.

        The game is hostile to small companies and individuals. Not out of malice, but simple economics. This system works well for them, talking to you just isn't reasonable.

        To have any hope, you're going to need to find management for your local store willing to make an exception. The big chains often have rules that simply won't allow your little deal to go through. If no such rule exists, the local management may simply quickly check the numbers and realize that even if your game is moderately successful (and the odds are against it), it will cost them more to stock it than they will make in profit. You need to find someone with the freedom to put your product on their shelves and a willingness to make a high-risk, low-benefit move. Really, you're looking for someone willing to take on your product out of a desire to do good, not simple greed. They're out there, but it's a small number. Since you're working on a store-to-store basis, you'll be hard-pressed to get widespread availability.

        Your best bet will be truly independent game stores. They certainly exist. Of course, your potential market shrinks even further.

        Like all too many things, economies of scale have lead to a situation where the lone creator has serious problems entering the market. Fortunately the internet makes it easy and financially possible to start selling a product, get a few people to try it out, and use work of mouth to spread the word. Thanks to the Internet I've found bands [minibosses.com] and games [chroniclogic.com] I would never otherwise have discovered.

  • by Lord_Pain ( 165272 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:30AM (#5493012)
    For the longest time that was the only choices we had! We couldn't get even crappy mainstream games. In an odd way I think of it as a blessing. We were exposed to great little garage design houses like Ambrosia [ambrosiasw.com], the maker of the Escape Velocity, Aperion and Pop-pop! They sell only through the web. They can't afford shelf space. But that hasn't caused them any big problems.

    I believe that Linux folks know all about garage crews as well so that part is covered. Now you just have to teach them to pay for their games. ;p

    You Windows users. Look around and explore! There are tresures out there waiting to be found. Package glitz isn't everything! For every game (good ones) that you buy creativity survives for that much longer!

  • Here's the rub. We complain about a lack of innovation in gaming with the same breath we decry how buggy it is, and how crappy the UI design may be.

    Face it, games are going to have to be "repetitive" because people expect virtual perfection for them. Also, most companies no longer have the will or desire to build a brand new (fill in the blank) engine. They just license the parts and build their story. To do otherwise would be like inventing a new language before you wrote a novel.

    I do not buy this crap for a minute that big industry is in the process of "Hollywoodizing" the game industry. Granted Sony, Nintendo, M$, et.all seem to have a lock on the console market. That would be because the DESIGNED a lock into the console. The computer game market is still WIDE open though, as is the Cell Phone/PDA market.

    PC and PDAs are general purpose computers. Open Source has, in the past, created immense libraries to handle everything from databases to boot prompts. There is nothing blocking someone from taking up the cause for game engines. Well, except for the fact that everyone expects to make a zillion dollars from the endeavor.

    Linus did not start coding Linux in the hopes of raking in mad cash. RMS has never had any illusions of monetary gain. We need someone to start a similar project for games, but in the tradition of the great open-source projects, not quit his/her day job and do it on the side.

    It takes years, yes, but look at the results.

  • Depressing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tyreth ( 523822 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @09:40AM (#5493064)
    This is really depressing. It's been ages since I've been excited about a game, or been able to play it for hours. Now it seems like we spend our time waiting for the "next big thing", Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft III, Master of Orion 3, Team Fortress 2 (ha!), Doom 3, etc.

    We don't buy other unknown titles because they cost so much and no-one else will own them to play with. We wait, and get these games which, sometimes, just aren't that good.

    I miss the times when I'd have a game I'd play for hours on end - Transport Tycoon, Master of Orion 2, Ultima 7/8, etc. Innovation really is missing. Case point - the newest game we've started playing at our lan's is Natural Selection, a half life mod. This game is so different from any other first person shooters. It is refreshing and amazing fun, we played for many hours. It's the most fun I've had at a lan for a long time. Why can't we have good new games? Fuck Unreal Tournament 2003, Quake 4 (yes it's being made, not by ID), or these sequals. I want something new, something refreshing. I wish games were a third of the cost they are now, so that I could buy 4-5 games instead of just buying one to be safe. I could try out new games by a company I've never heard of. Right now it breaks the bank of most younger gamers (I'm not one - anymore).

    • Try programming. You might find it entertaining.

      You then might decide that you want to make games because it is challenging and fun.

      And then you will find that there are 100,000 screaming children at your door about how your games suck, they want a job "playing games all day, and how they want.... blah blah bla blah my-little-feature-that's-stupid in 'their' game that has no chance of being marketable.

      And then the process will have gone full circle.

      I work in the gaming industry as a network engineer/sysadmin.
  • The indie game movement is a great opportunity for publishers to actually sign cheap talent and make good money. Unfortunately I've found that many of the "companies" which start making games never finish them. Is it time to start cleaning house with some of these old game companies which haven't produced anything decent in years? Maybe, but thats not for me to decide. Just like the minor leagues in any sports league, many of the players play for fun and thats where the true nature of their talent is shown. When game companies start getting games published, from what I've seen, they seem to move into two catagories. The first being the passive "lets not change our design system so we don't lose any money". And the other "lets do this crazy idea of x, because it sounds nifty" and ultimately ends up failing, i.e. World War 2 Online.

    I myself had planned to enter my FPS into last years IGF competition however I wasn't able to finish the levels to perfection in time. I have the personal philosophy that if I don't like it, or wouldn't play it, I keep working to make it good. I hate almost all games on the market, so I can be a good judge of whats a decent game for myself.

    After many evaluations of my engine, I rewrote things using SDL so I have my engine working under both Windows and Linux, and if I can get my hands a nifty G4, an Apple port. I plan to include all three versions on the CD with installs for each, daring no?

    For the IGF this year, I'm planning to have possibly 2 entries, my FPS, and a racing game. Both projects are looking good, it's just a matter of whatever product meets my final cut, will be introduced.
  • Ever since the engine behind Tribes 2 was released for licensing at $99 per programmer, I've thought the entire concept of Garage Games [garagegames.com] was a rather good one to work with. An incredibly cheap engine license with built-in options for publication once a game is completed, the Torque Game Engine (TGE) is a great option for new game developers.

    Not being a coder myself, I did refer a close friend to the engine when he started to burn out on Half-Life and Quake 3 modding, and he's dove right in with attempts to help TGE development move along. There are quite a few people out there around the Garage Games forums looking to put together one game or another, and some of them actually have proposals for things that aren't just Counter-Strike or Quake clones. Take a look at the games Garage Games sells in the store. All were made with TGE, none are shooters.

    I can't say strongly enough just how much I think TGE will help revolutionize game production if people actually take notice. The entry cost of development is pretty low, particularly considering that you can develop on Linux and OS X based equipment in addition to Windows. There's a particularly large amount of room in TGE-based game development for Mac-oriented games, as well as Linux.

    I'm on Garage Games' site as a designer, but haven't really been able to manage anything that went further than basic documentation. Even if I never accomplish anything, I at least feel glad I had a chance to try. Hopefully a few folks reading this post might give Garage Games and TGE a shot.
  • by Patoski ( 121455 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @10:05AM (#5493214) Homepage Journal
    Indie game developers face several problems with getting their game to market. The biggest problem is that the gaming industry and its distribution has matured but the indie gaming distribuion channels haven't yet. The music industry has a relatively good indie distribution network compared to the gaming industry. Music lovers can purchase all kinds of eclectic and not-so-mass-popular music if they know which shops carry that type of music.

    So indie game developers aren't in any of the shops that most people frequent (EB Games etc.) and AFAIK there aren't any sites that publish a wide variety of indie games. What would really help is a site like garage games but on a grander scale and is open to all indie game producers. Sort of an EB Games for indie game developers to hawk their wares.

    The other big problem is the cost involved in creating a title which even approaches AAA quality. With the relatively recent proliferation of capable open source 3D engines and libraries like OGRE, NeL (Nevrax) CrystalSpace, SDL and OpenAL the barrier for coding a high quality cross platform games has been dramatically lowered.

    Of course there's also the issue of artwork being required. Hiring top quality artists can be restrictively expensive for indie gave devs. Someone had mentioned having a creative commons for game developers which I have always thought would be a wonderful idea. The problem is getting all of these far flung developers to work together in creating such a commons. WorldForge is slowing building a library of GPLed+FDLed media (which is now pretty substantial) but these things take time of course.
  • What if all of these independent game developers got together and released their software on a subscription model? $N lets you download N games per month. When a game gets old, download a new game. Or perhaps even better would be something like ORA's Bookshelf model, where you have N games at a time, and if you decide the one you just tried sucks, swap it for a different one.

    This solves the problem one poster had, where indie games don't get press coverage... with everyone going to one site for their indie game supply, they can just hit the "Whats New" link and see whats up.

    The only problem with this model, is that unlike the bookshelf, they'll need a continuous supply of software titles for people to use (This doesn't necessarially have to restrict itself to games, now). They'll also need a revenue model that is fair to independent developers and which can still draw people to pay. ORA's honor system may not work too well against game piracy, as well, without some kind of controls (although I've been thinking... didn't someone do a web-based game delivery system for Half Life? Maybe this could be adapted to these needs, although it would require a whole lot of bandwidth on the hosting side.)
  • I love games. I work on games. However, I don't think the current course of the gaming industry is going to change for some years, and (amazingly) I don't actually blame the current crop of games publishers for the state of play. Yes, they're run by unimaginative money men, yes, they're only funding bankable titles etc. etc. But what would you do with someone else's $4 million if it was your job to ensure a reasonable return? Exactly. You push the cash to where you're most likely to get a reasonable payoff, which at the moment is the 15 year old 'kewl yoof' demographic. The general public buys Tony Hawks IIXIX and boasts about its 'realistic polycount' in the playground. No manner of bitching on /. will change that.

    However, I think there is a ray of light... All my mates who used to play games are still playing them. No-one seems to be 'growing out' of them. My girlfriend's dad is addicted to Starcraft. I bought my dad a joystick and a WWII simulator for christmas (heh - irony ;-). At the moment, the market is immature and the demand is for the latest, flashiest fad. But the ranks of discerning gamers are out there, and they're growing. The games industry is slowly maturing beyond hardware-driven drivel (who cares if Doom3 has 2 billion polys if it plays worse than Half-Life?). Soon we're not going to be able to tell the games machines apart, aside from their logos and controllers (and hey - they're looking pretty damned similar today).

    I believe I'm going to be able to make intelligent, interesting games that aren't solely targeted at the lowest common denomenator. The catch is, we have to wait until the money guys realise they can make a profit on stuff that isn't utterly mainstream. I reckon this is only going to happen when the audience for games of all kinds is much, much larger. Fortunately, it looks like it's getting there.

  • The guy that develops Air War and other heady board war games, I'm thinking is a nice middle aged man with a moustache and a hobby. Sort of like a Paul Davies, rather than a Denis Leary. But I like having my illusions shattered.
  • by shreak ( 248275 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @10:31AM (#5493409)
    Why does a game have to go to "Major Publication" to be a success?

    Why can't a game (or any content) serve a focused, interested community? Sure, most people will just go to the major vendors, but some will find the game that fits their particular interest.

    This works the same for corner grocers /vs Supermarket, corner cofee shop /vs Starbucks or corner bookstore /vs Barnes & Nobels.

    In town and cities that are spread out the superstores win out because of convenience. In dense cities the corner stores can do very well. It's just as easy to get to the individual stores and they can taylor what they carry to meet the local needs.

    I guess it depends on what best models the net. Is it spread out where it becomes convinent to have one size fits all content or is it a dense city where its easy to find thing that fit my specific needs?

    =Shreak
    • Why does a game have to go to "Major Publication" to be a success?

      It's because of the way game development works -- when you get a contract with a publisher, you're basically guaranteeing that you'll have funding for the duration of your project. The publisher generally takes a significant risk when signing such contracts, because the vast majority of games never even sell enough copies to cover their cost of development.

      So if you don't have that contract, you presumably have to be getting funding from elsewhere. If you're planning on trying to run a business off of game royalties, you've got a death wish.

      What's the solution? I think it's something we haven't seen yet. I'd love someone to start an organization that's like NPR/PBS, where a central group accepts public donations/membership and then distributes that money to select developers. These developers then have a responsibility to make games that are, above all, good, rather than games that sell. What's the difference? The amount of risk a developer takes. If you're not constantly worried about the pressures of the marketplace, about competing with this or that game that just came out, you're free to take more risks and... dare I say... innovate?

      Mmm... probably a pipe dream, though.
  • I pulled together a team of 3 for the IGF a couple years ago to do rtChess [newimage.com] for 2 reasons. 1) I needed a real application to test my ray tracing engine - actually using it revealed how much the API sucked. 2) Entering the IGF provided a solid deadline and goal to work towards. I never expected to win - though making the top 10 would have been nice.

    Anyway, the IGF was important. Independants who are working part time (for free) have a terrible time keeping motivated and focused. I did the game in order to focus on the design of the API. I entered IGF to stay focused on the game.

    No IGF game got published, but how many entrants have been hired by game companies? It not about the games as much as it is about following through. It's a case where everyone who actually enters is a winner. The other 10,000 people are just wanna-bes.

    Status update: 1) The API has improved a lot since then. 2) The ray tracer has gotten significantly faster than it was. 3) There is documentation coming together. 4) I just don't have time to do something really cool with it - need a new project with real goals again...

  • Reading the blurb for this article you'd think consoles are somehow raising the bar of entry into the gaming market. Maybe that's true for console games but the bar of entry for computer games is nearly non existant when it comes to hardware and coding materials.

    The real barrier of entry is paying all the people that are required to make a game. Sure maybe coders who love to play games are willing to take a cut for a long while and try and start a stuido. But what about artists , 3d modelers, and musicians. Making a game requires a lot of different specilizations and that means a lot of people and a lot of cash to pay them.

    Im often annoyed by how low creativity is in the industry myself but lets face it there are only so many base ideas you can work with in a game. I'd hate to see gamers fall into the same trap of thinking that different and innovative and new always = good. Look at the art of painting. A lot of snobby people go around saying what a "good " painting is based off of what kind of new concepts it introduces but to most of us these paintings just look like so many pieces of junk.

    Believe it or not but a lot of problems with the game industry are problems with the developers and not the suits. A big enough portion of them act like whiney prima donna's and throw productivity out the window by trying to introduce new idea's that are just boring in the first place. All to many of them forget that the real purpose is to just make a game thats fun.
  • I like this game, POSTAL. http://www.gopostal.com/ On the demo for Postal 1, the sounds are horrendously EVIL ;-) You see people you just shot crawl on the ground asking "Finish the job" and other depressing things.

    The game's brutally wonderful ;-)
  • I've always dreamed that something grass-roots like this would emerge, and hopefully I'd be able to participate. I guess I've grown cynical a bit, because when it comes to game design, it's hard to find people that share your vision for a game.

    And I'm not just talking about the technical crowd either.. My closest friends are non-technical (as far as using a PC) strategy game buffs, so I proposed that we develop a PC game together, where I would take on all the burden of coding. I set up a Yahoo discussion board, but then later realized...it never got updated.

    The biggest obstacle to this of course is procrastination. Has anyone had success in this area..? How did you meet your goal?

    Thx

  • by BigJimSlade ( 139096 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @11:12AM (#5493753) Homepage
    is the story of Indrema a prophesy? Is Infinium just vapor? Is there any other solution?

    First of all, don't look to consoles as the solution. Any consoles. ESPECIALLY not vaporware consoles.

    Consoles are closed platforms with a high entry cost. Even if you can meet that entry cost, there's still the matter of getting picked up by a publisher (you as an independent developer have 0% chance of getting your game on the shelves at EB or Best Buy).

    I think your best bet as an indie developer is to develop for a computer platform (PC, Mac or Linux... preferably develop in a manner that it's easy to port to any of the 3). On the PC a developer, if so inclined, could:
    • develop the game using free or lower cost tools
    • publish the game themselves (either via online distribution or burning CDs themselves and mailing them out

    The Underdogs [the-underdogs.org] has a manifesto [the-underdogs.org] that discusses developing "scratchware" games; games developed by a small team of enthusiastic developers dedicated to getting a quality product on the market with a small budget that can sell for under $25. The Underdogs even has a store where they sell games developed in this manner.

    Developers: don't go into this with dollar signs in your eyes. Go into it with a solid idea for a game and a like-minded group of developers. I think you will be successful.
  • by Conspiracy_Of_Doves ( 236787 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @11:42AM (#5494047)
    BlitzBasic [blitzbasic.com] has some great game dev tools specifically made for manipulating 2D/3D graphics on the screen. It is essentially a full-blown language with elements borrowed from both basic and C. Very easy to learn/use. You can do in a few lines what would take hundreds or thousands of lines in other languages. Plus, there is already a wide user base that you can get help and tips from.

  • It's called a Linux PC. With Tux Racer as the minimum performance
    standard, plus a requirement of good TV Out support, there is a large
    market for games.

  • by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @11:58AM (#5494230) Homepage
    I look at independent efforts and I see, generally, one of two things:

    1. A desire to compete with the big boys--to make the next Quake killer, to build a wicked-cool 3D game of epic proportions, etc.
    2. A desire to make a fun little game.

    Much of the beef with the current state of indy gamemaking seems to revolve around group one. Everybody wants to be David to the industry's Goliath; everybody wants to be that breakthrough, rags-to-riches, beat-the-odds underdog. To that end, there are -maybe- half a dozen indy groups/folks who have the vision, dedication, and know-how to actually pull this off; they crop up every now and then, release an acclaimed title, and often end up entering (gasp!) the industry.

    Sad fact is, you're not gonna be able to go toe to toe with a company that can throw three dozen full-time people and several million dollars at any given title. It's not gonna happen. No matter how cool, revolutionary, or fresh your idea is, odds are, you -don't- have -all- the skills necessary to pull it off on an indy budget. You're a crack coder, but can't design a UI to save your life. You can create beautiful game art but physics makes your head swim. You've got this really, really cool special effect that puts the big houses' work to shame; all you need now is a game to wrap around it...the list goes on.

    If, as an indy game developer, you make a few changes to your outlook, you can have a -really incredible time- making a game. Here are a few suggestions:

    1. Don't quit your day job. Treat gamemaking as a hobby, something you do for a few hours a night instead of watching TV or playing other games.
    2. Bite off less than you can chew. For your first few projects, just keep it insanely simple. No special modes, no added effects--pick one simple aspect of your game, build it, polish it. After you've done this, start tagging all the 'cool' stuff on.
    3. Focus on your strengths, but pick something to improve. Maybe take an art class once a week. Maybe buy a book on algorithm optimization. Maybe study user interface design. Maybe take a marketing class. Remember, you're indy, you're small, you need to be able to tackle as many facets of making a game as you can. The more you broaden your skills, the better your games will be.
    4. Get a little help from your friends. Once you absolutely -love- what you've created, have your friends try it out. -Listen- to their feedback, swallow your pride, and consider ways to make more people say "Wow!" and fewer people say "Umm..."
    5. Don't use the big titles as a meterstick. Do that, and you'll soon find yourself violating suggestion two. Your mantra should be something along the lines of, "I -cannot- compete with Rockstar Games. I -can- make a really fun game that lost of people will like."
    6. Do it to have fun. Do it because you -love- making games. Do it because you want to entertain people. If you make your game a labor of love, it -will- be a great game, even if you're the only person who ever sees it as such. Look at it this way: if you make a game that you enjoy so much that you play it more than any other game you own for years, haven't you made the best game you could ever wish for?

    There are success stories out there. Other posters to this article have articulated this point quite well. All I'm trying to say is, don't get into indy games for the wrong reason. Do it for yourself, do it to have fun, and you won't regret it. Measure success by self-satisfaction, not by shelf space and bottom lines.

  • Is hard. And once you do something that gathers attention of the masses, it's fairly easy to knock out copies as well.

    That and everything is just theme and variation on what's been done before (not to say that maybe it isn't worth redoing...)
  • by Quixadhal ( 45024 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @12:28PM (#5494493) Homepage Journal
    I'm curious. How many /. readers out there are authors (of those dead-tree things, not software)? How is this on-topic? Well, writing software for a living is similar to writing novels. There are some number of well-known big-money publishers out there, and there are a larger number of not-well-known shops which occasionally produce hits, and then thare are independants.

    If you're an author, you can choose to:

    (a) Write what you believe. If you choose this path, you will have to have a Real Job (TM) to pay for things like food and shelter. You may find that the amount of time and energy you have to write varies with your Job and Family influence. That means, you will be at it for many years before finishing anything, and get very little sleep.

    (b) Write what will sell. Many authors take this route. Find a genre you kindof-like, look at the slop that's on the shelf, write something that feels much the same. Chances are, one of the middleweight publishers will buy it and sell it direct to the bargin bin. You're writing (good practice) and making enough money to pay for food OR shelter, so only a semi-decent Job (TM) is needed. Your Family might actually see you.

    (c) Write what they tell you. This usually only happens once you've managed (a) or (b). You get hired or contracted by a Big Corporate Entity (TM) and they say "We need you to write a by next Quarter." In this mode, you write to whatever specs they give you and churn out a product which will be pushed into the market. It offers the distinction of being a Real Job (TM) all by itself, but as with any other Job, you have are bound by the Chains of Command, and have a Boss.

    It seems to me that software development has also reached that place. It's usually impossible for a single person to break into the market, but if a small group gets together they have to face the three choices above. Let's face it... we ALL want to write the thing that's in our head. We're all sure it's really cool, and that other people would like it too (and maybe even pay for it). But we all also have to eat too, and have a place for our computers to stay in out of the rain.

    Once upon a time, you used to be able to get a job by just going to the place you wanted to work and being persistant. Nowadays, that gets you thrown in jail for loitering and/or harassment. How do unknown game developers get a foot in the door these days?

    WWJC?
  • The Video Game Bust (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) <{ude.lfu} {ta} {dnaslihp}> on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @12:33PM (#5494531) Homepage
    As video game companies continue consolidating wildly, and more and more buy into the EA strategy of either buying out successful development houses to run their best franchises into the ground (Ultima, C&C, in time Sim Anything), or releasing media tie-ins (Harry Potter, LoTR), I think we're going to see another video game bust. Probably not quite on the level of the Atari bust, though it wouldn't surprise me if PC gaming is hit about that hard. But it'll be a lot worse than the last one, which seems to have been a little micro-bust right between the SNES and the PSX.

    Both of these previous busts have been marked by a clear shift in the central location of game production. In the Atari era video games were centered in the US. When they busted, the industry centered in Japan, based on trans-Pacific marketing (Nintendo). When Nintendo busted after the SNES, it realligned again to support both US (GTA3) and Japanese (FFX) development, with little focus on worldwide marketing on the whole. (Let's face it, most of the deeply Japanese titles for Sony systems are just quietly released here without fanfaire, on the assumption that the fans of Japanese-style games will find them on their own).

    My guess, then, is that what we'll see is a shift towards European developers, particularly as the EU and the Euro consolidates Europe and makes it possible for Europe as a whole to host a power-developer.

  • Indrema (Score:3, Informative)

    by Restil ( 31903 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @12:55PM (#5494723) Homepage
    Indrema suffered from the same dotcom failures that many other companies at the time did. I can't find a timeline on the company at the moment, so I can't make specifics, but they advanced with thier project with the assumption that it was going to require a large sum of cash to just get it out the door, with the expectation that they would recover it later. This is great if you already have the product and just need the money to produce it, but it's another thing entirely when you're in uncharted territory with no idea of your market, no idea of your R&D costs, and no idea about how long it's going to take. And I'm not saying that the Indrema developers didn't have an idea about these things, but they clearly hadn't thought it out sufficiently.

    Most successful businesses rely on the initial partners putting in lots of 8 hour nights working for nothing but sweat equity for upwards of years before they have a product that has a decent chance in the market. The dot com era got people spoiled to the idea that they could do all this initial R&D while getting paid $150,000 a year, because VC's were willing to live off the hype. The point is, its unrealistic, and it didn't last.

    An open source gaming console isn't a stretch. It's just a matter of what dedicated people are willing to put into getting it out the door. At the minimum, it requires the following:

    - A custom hardware platform. Even if it is based on x86 hardware, you'll need a design that gives a performance and cost advantage to a console system, otherwise people could just buy a PC, defeating the whole purpose of the console. Even the X-Box, mostly a standard PC stuffed in a tiny box, has shared memory pipelines and other features that give it an advantage over comperable computers at the same speed and cost. Sony develops their hardware from scratch, and gains a cost advantage as a result, but the R&D involved in doing that is out of the ballpark of any smaller companies.

    - Games designed for the platform. Assuming it's not just a standard PC in a box, you'll need games. Some might get by with a recompile, but for the most part, you're going to need others to invest their time and effort with the hopes that you're going to have a successful platform. When Sony or Microsoft puts up their cash to make it happen, it's a safe investment. You know the system will be available, and you know people will be marketed into purchasing it, so the quality of your game is the only selling point you need to concern yourself with. When you don't even know if the console will sell, you're going to have a tough time getting others to invest in your dream. It's quite the chicken and the egg problem. Nobody buys the console without games, and nobody buys the games without the console. The best course of action would be to hope for a bunch of easy ports of already available games, so even if they don't take full advantage of the hardware, there will at least be a selection available to give some credibility to the system.

    - A market. If people don't buy it, none of this matters. Linux people aren't the primary market here. We already have our linux boxes, and all things considered, would prefer more games available on that system before the effort is spent to put them on a vapor console. So you need to go after the console gaming market in general, which means you need to compete with the other consoles on the market. And you're not competing with the PS2 and Xbox, you're competing with whatever is available 3 years from now, because that's the minimum time its going to take to get a viable system out the door.

    If enough individuals are willing to do the games on a small budget with the hopes of some future return, there's a possibility. But a company creating the console is going to rely on the sweat equity of others for the success of their own product. It's not out of line to think that way, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

    And one of the quotes from the Indrema developers said it best. Wait until you actually have a product before you talk about it. Time spent talking is time not spent working. People love to drool at vaporware, but they can't buy vaporware, so your pre-marketing efforts are in vain. Even if you finish it years later, people will have gone on to drool at other things. To have any hopes of success, you have to sell your product while people are still drooling. That means, give them some pictures, give them some specs, give them a date, and STICK WITH IT. You can't predict hardware development, you can't predict software development. You can predict how long it will take to put it into boxes and fill said boxes with fuzzy foam peanuts. Market appropriately.

    -Restil
  • Change IS Coming (Score:4, Informative)

    by jefftunn ( 152332 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @01:10PM (#5494844) Homepage
    Greg's post was good, but I think this is currently "conventional wisdom". He simply stated what everybody has been feeling for the past couple of years. The point that this kind of thinking will change the industry is correct.

    I don't want to turn this post into a big sales job, but GarageGames IS a label for indies. If you haven't heard from us yet, you soon will. I was the founder of Dynamix, a Sierra label, and got fed up with large corporate control. Myself and a few of the best technologists felt the way Greg does three years ago, but we did something about it. We leveraged our position at Sierra to get control and ownership of the code behind Tribes 2, and started selling it for $100 per programmer as the Torque Game Engine. Eighteen months since we sold our first engine, we have amassed a very large and active development community, and have started selling games via ESD.

    We do anything we can to help indies: be it cheap, powerful, cross platform technology with an extremely liberal license; team building; or publishing. We only created the publishing arm out of necessity, and give 65% royalties, do not take box rights, or take any claim on your IP. Of the first three titles that we published on-line, we have gotten box deals for two of them (even though you do not give us your box rights, we can help you get your deal).

    Anyway, enough about GG. The point is, we are on the front line of change in the industry. It is my absolute belief that making a game is much more like being in a rock band than making a movie, i.e. three to five guys that are very good at what they do can make absolutley great games. You can make games that will change the industry. If you think you need to compete on the number of 3D models, or amount of non-interactive "movie" between interactive areas, or number of mo-cap moves, then you will fail. However, if you concentrate on pure game play, concept, and FUN, then you will win.

    Distribution for these good games will appear. The big publishers are moving toward larger and larger games, leaving behind nice "little" niches and markets that others will move in to fill. Box distribution is not going away any time soon, and it will continue to look for good titles. Not all of the titles can be shovel ware from Russia published by highly controlling value publishers. The market will find a way. People want to play fun games, developers want to to make fun games, and it is inevitable that they find a way to meet.
  • by podperson ( 592944 ) on Wednesday March 12, 2003 @03:58PM (#5496408) Homepage
    ...this largely mirrors something I posted [slashdot.org] on an earlier thread (re: the "Hollywoodization" of the games industry and risk aversion). Still, I was hardly the first to point this out.

    But there are independent software labels. Take a look at:

    Delta Tao [deltatao.com]
    Ambrosia [ambrosiasw.com]
    Beenox [beenox.com]

    Of course, some of them live hand-to-mouth (i.e. on incomes of less than $100,000 a year) but, so do independent film makers and recording artists.

    The fact is that like Hollywood, the games industry is dominated by risk-averse money people who spurn originality in favor of the sure thing. But like Hollywood, the games industry is always willing to leap onto independent innovators (the "My Big Fat Greek Weddings" of games), such as id [id.com].

    Don't be surprised when yesterday's bold innovators become part of today's problem, that's part of the creative life cycle (just as great innovative scientists become curmudgeons in their old age).

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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