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Microsoft Entertainment Games

The Future of PC Games, According to Microsoft 449

Posted by CowboyNeal from the looking-to-the-future dept.
Geaty writes "Gamespot has an article up about Microsoft's big PC plans. Topics covered include why DirectX 9 will be the last DX for a while, the increased game support in Longhorn, and a 'standard' PC controller. Looks to this ignorant reader like Microsoft is trying to tackle the games market (again?), cornering matchmaking and patching. The controller issue seems like an attempt to bring to the PC platform some of the uniformity that consoles have."
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The Future of PC Games, According to Microsoft More

The Future of PC Games, According to Microsoft

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  • Activation Key (Score:4, Funny)

    by D4Vr4nt ( 615027 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:13AM (#5509011) Homepage
    I wonder if you'll need to use an Activation key for their new controllers? :P

    But seriously, why would PC's need a standard gaming controller?? I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

    • Re:Activation Key (Score:4, Informative)

      by jkcity ( 577735 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:17AM (#5509030) Homepage
      some games are just easier to play on a game pad, and in my opionion is less strain on the hands, don't know if thats the same for everyoen though.

      You can also sit further back from the screen, I know you could do this with remote keyboards or mice, or one's with long cables, but for the most part its impracticle.

      • Re:Activation Key (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lewp ( 95638 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:27AM (#5509077) Journal
        No, it's not just you.

        FPS games (which get the majority of my time) almost require a keyboard and mouse to play properly. While games such as Goldeneye may be perfectly playable on a console for most people, purists like myself want to vomit at the lack of control. Likewise, the additional buttons on the keyboard and pointing precision of the mouse make them a much better choice for RPG and RTS games.

        On the other hand, sports, fighting, and driving games are better suited to console controllers. This is especially true in that these sort of games are often best experienced with a buddy or two playing next to you. Sharing a keyboard with your opponent is just no fun, as players of earlier PC sports games will be glad to tell you.

        A platform with both options is well on its way to the perfect game machine. A PC with a standardized control pad is rather close to an Xbox. Funny, that. Good move on Microsoft's part.

        • Re:Activation Key (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Pxtl ( 151020 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:54AM (#5509220) Homepage
          While I agree with you that a gamepad is nice for multiple players on one machine - but I can count the number of games that both support USB and multiplayer on one machine on one hand. Meaning that, right now, the PC is piss poor for console games, and the PC already has a good architecture for gamepads and games - Atomic Bomberman is a dream with 8 players and a good USB hub ($10 gamepads and a good USB hub are all you need).

          That being said, the problem is Microsoft. Directplay stupidly names the axes and assumes how they are meant to be used. Really, the axes should be unlabelled and rebound at the users discretion. The whole glory of PC hardware is that it embraces new standards as it needs. The SpaceOrb would never exist on a console (they tried, it didn't work).

          Personally, I don't want PC standardized pads - it would encourage PC game developers to slack-off on configurability of the controls the way they do on consoles (like UT for Dreamcast console has NO standard Turok style setting - its 4 available setups are all unplayable if you want the alt-fire and jump available).

          The fact is that PC's dont come with gamepads, and so gamepads will never be standard. That creates the reciprocal relationship that gamepad-oriented games (fighting games, platformers) do not catch on on PC's.

          I don't see it as a problem with the gamepads. PC gamepad system is good and the USB+Directplay is an excellent and good enough standard (for MS boxen). The problem is the games. If MS wants to fix the problem, they need to publish some console-style multiplayer PC games. I've got 4 directplay compatible gamepads collecting dust because I've found 4 games that can handle them all, and one of them I made myself.

          • Re:Activation Key (Score:3, Informative)

            by br0ck ( 237309 )
            Atomic Bomberman is a dream

            You should try xblast, it's actually much more fun in my opinion. It's available here [freshmeat.net] or for other platforms try the left links at the (noisy) homepage [xblast-center.com], or grab the Debian package [debian.org].

    • Keyboard and mouse fail it (Score:5, Insightful)

      by yerricde ( 125198 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:21AM (#5509051) Homepage Journal

      I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

      Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

      Try connecting more than one keyboard and mouse to one computer. One computer per player is much too expensive.

      • Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it (Score:5, Funny)

        by jsse ( 254124 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:38AM (#5509142) Homepage Journal
        Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

        That's not fair, even a grade school kid knows a standard keyboard can deal more damage than a standard PS1 controller. Not to mention the extra punching effect dealt by that 101 keys. Oh and that removable, throwable ball in the mouse is also an unfair advantage over your opponent.

        Of course, he might stand a chance if he use a non-standard joystick type controller, but only when the stick is being stuck into the right place on your opponent.
      • Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

        Well, if you want to make a fool of yourself, go ahead. I've been MAMEing on a keyboard since the start and continue to give diehard controller gamers a nice man-beating. I've even played them against me on the keyboard and them on the arcade control. See my website Mame Arcade Cabinet. [pointclark.net] When I play SFII, SFA, SFA2,SFA3 on keyboard I can rock anyone.

      • Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it (Score:4, Insightful)

        by KilerCris ( 637493 ) <KilerCris@Mai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:38AM (#5509380)
        The big problem with controllers is that most of them are designed to be thumb-oriented, with recent controllers featuring triggers to use your index finger as well. The big advantage of using a keyboard for most game is that you can use ALL your fingers. This enables you much, much more speed and greater control over your character's movement and other actions. When I'm playing Halo on my Xbox I always curl my right index finger to the top of the controller, where all the buttons are, and use my middle finger to shoot. Is this really necessary? If I were playing it on my PC w/ a keyboard I would have fingers ready to do every major action in an instant. ...and there isn't even an arguement against a mouse's superiority for aiming in an FPS. Considering that in the entire history of consoles there have been what? 2? 3? successful FPSs, and IMHO this is only because of the frustration involved with aiming in an FPS with a joystick.
        • What controller designers need to start doing is taking advantage of all those unused fingers and stop dumping all the work on the thumbs.

          I don't even use my thumbs all that much when playing PC games with a keyboard...
    • I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake with the nintendo 64 controller. You have the strafing/movement on the traditional + pad, while the aiming is done on the little joy-stick (I'm not up on my gamimg terms). You fire with the trigger below, and the R buttons can chagne weapons and jump.

      The one thing I always think of when playing a first persion shooter is how using arrow keys + mouse is so... unnatural I guess is the best word. At least when compared to a nice game controller.

      • Re:Activation Key (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake with the nintendo 64 controller.

        I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake against you with a ps/2 mouse!

      • How to use PS1 and N64 controllers with PC (Score:4, Informative)

        by yerricde ( 125198 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:37AM (#5509126) Homepage Journal

        I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake with the nintendo 64 controller.

        Want cool? Buy it now [wishtech.com].

        I personally prefer using PS1 controllers with the EMS USB2 adapter [fragism.com].

      • Think about this:

        When I want to aim, I want accuracy and speed. With a mouse I can just flip it and fire, a joystick of any kind interferes with that.

        When I want to move forward I either want to run(fast) or walk(silently). A joystick for movement usually results in me breaking it or hurting my wrist trying to get every last degree of motion.

        Gamepads are good for fighting games, they are good for 2d Zelda games, but nothing can take the place of a mouse in first person shooters. That said, a lef

        • Re:MOUSE damnit, MOUSE!! (Score:5, Informative)

          by twiztidlojik ( 522383 ) <dapplemac AT mac DOT com> on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:07AM (#5509259) Homepage
          What you want is a Nostromo n50 Speedpad [belkin.com].

          This thing is positively orgasmic. Four toggleable modes for every control. Ten keys. A D-pad. A wheel. Completely configurable. Any set of keys. For example, my D-pad does jump+forward, jump+back, etc etc, one key mode does movement, another mode does orders (while holding down the previous key pressed), yet another mode does taunts, and still another mode does acknowledgements.

          Hot damn. I love this thing. A Speedpad positively screams "awesome" when you bring it to a lan party. I nearly pissed myself when I saw it at the Belkin booth at MacWorld New York.
        • one thing can take the place of mice for FPS's, a trackball =) 3000dpi optical trackball means I can aim on a single pixel by moving my fingers ever so slightly, or a flick and I am arced 90 degrees across the screen. Plus I don't get all the RSI of a mouse user, I do get cramps from my hand being in one position too long if it's not at the right height, but I adjust my chair if that happens =)

    • Re:Activation Key (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ATMAvatar ( 648864 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:29AM (#5509084) Journal
      But seriously, why would PC's need a standard gaming controller?? I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

      Considering Microsoft's console entry, XBox, the hardware it runs on, and the fact it runs windows... this could be a push to finally turn computers into a total entertainment solution. As it stands now, you can play PC games, watch movies, check email, etc, etc, etc... and it's not that much of a stretch to turn your PC into a console as well, should they standardize controllers. The XBox is already essentially a wintel machine, so coming out with software that added console functionality couldn't be terribly hard.

      The video game industry is huge, and I could very easily see Microsoft trying to push windows into the console industry as well. Why would you ever want to buy a console again, if playing the games was as simple as buying a $30 controller and some $30-50 games for a computer you already have?

      I already play tons of old emulated games on my PC with a game controller. Personally, I would be quite happy if I could just grab console games and play them without having to drop another $200-300 on console hardware.

      Of course, this is all conjecture, so take it cum grano salis.

  • Its all coming together (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Joshuah ( 82679 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:16AM (#5509027)
    This only makes sense.
    First the xbox (which i love since i got it modded).
    then you have these media center edition PCs. What microsoft is doing its putting all the pieces together of the puzzle to put the computer in the living room. I mean, 1 box for games, dvds, tivo, tv turner. For $500 thats a good deal.
    Yeah, people will bash Microsoft for being evil, but every now and again, they have some really good stuff, i just cant get enough of the xbox, and the xbox live ! network is fantastic.

    • Re:Its all coming together (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Gortbusters.org ( 637314 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:31AM (#5509093) Homepage Journal
      Sometimes I think the same thing about Sony. I have my new CLIE, digital camera, and Vaio. Everything works nicely and I have integration via memory sticks. I especially like that commercial with the TV w/ Memory stick. Now on the other hand, I have WindowsXP, Xbox, Tivo, XP with Media Player et al.

      As much as I would like the features as an end-user, imagine a Sony-MS merger and a massive monopoly of everything digital. As customer's we'd be at their liberty to bend us over (or bend our wallets over to be more accurate).

      On the other hand, we've seen stories here for the Linux controller bar, and the other 1001 ways to use Linux in your home. So things are converging there too.

      What does it all mean? Hopefully more cool toys for us all and (lets pray), a competitive market to buy them in!

    • One Box To Rule Them All (Score:5, Funny)

      by Nazmun ( 590998 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:33AM (#5509362) Homepage
      Then Bill Gates the deciever gave to masses the boxes of power. But he kept to himself, the true power. With full control of everything that would flow through these boxes he would finally be able to rule them....

      Oh wait never mind those damn xbox hackers will put linux on them. So much for that plan.

    • Re:Its all coming together (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SN74S181 ( 581549 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:47AM (#5509418)
      The problem with 'One box for games, DVDs, tivo, TV Tuner' is that sometimes I want to do several of the above simultaneously. Not that I want to play games while watching TV necessarily, but I might want to record a program while playing a console game and even have the TV on at the same time. Single-device scenarios make this more difficult. If I program a device to record the shows I want to watch at my leisure, I want to program it to do that, and leave that particular device alone to do it's task. I don't want to have to worry that I play a game a bit longer than expected and miss the show.

      'Single device for the living room' scenarios just don't fit the way I do things and I suspect I'm not at all alone in this regard.

  • DirectX 9.0? (Score:4, Funny)

    by tarquin_fim_bim ( 649994 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:17AM (#5509033)
    I didn't know it was out, does that mean I'll be able to get minesweeper to work now?

  • More monopolizing (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kaworu-sama ( 608217 )
    It really seems lately that Microsoft thinks they can assert power in whatever market they choose. I mean, they want to make a standardized controller? Will they patent it and make other companies have to pay royalties to make them? Also, the article says they are going to stop dx production for a while. This could spell trouble for them if OpenGL 2.0 comes out before they hit dx10.
    • Is that what they do with MadCatz now for the Xbox? So why would they do it on a computer? BAAAAA.

      Also, DirectX isn't just for graphics devices, it's for sound devices, input devices, multiplayer gaming, etc.

  • System levels hard to establish (Score:5, Interesting)

    by frs_rbl ( 615298 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:18AM (#5509040) Journal
    Besides the standard PC Controller, the article talks about a proposed "system level" standard that would categorize PCs in the same way as consoles (instead of PS1, PS2... we'd have PC1, PC2... departing from whatever standard 'PC' configuration Microsoft seems fit to call PC1). In my humble oppinion, I think this is a ridiculous approach, and no less because it implies separating 'gaming' PCs from 'multi-purpose' (!) ones

    • Re:System levels hard to establish (Score:5, Insightful)

      by swordgeek ( 112599 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:21AM (#5509055) Journal
      Hmm. Sounds like the Multimedia PC Standard (MPC) from the early days of CDROM players. Then came MPC2. Not many people payed attention to it then, although it's sort of a good idea.

      The key is that it provides standards. It makes it easier to specify what is or isn't required for a program to run, and similarly gives software designers a target to shoot for. ("We need this game to run well in a PC3 standard")

      Not a bad idea in and of itself, but I don't imagine it going anywhere.

    • Re:System levels hard to establish (Score:5, Interesting)

      by magickalhack ( 648733 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:23AM (#5509059) Homepage
      I disagree. You can rate a system's ability to perform a specific task without hamstringing any other abilities the system may have.

      This rating system, I'm sure, was inspired by the original MPC rating system for "Multimedia PC" based on, among other things, the speed of your CD-ROM drive -- you know, back when 4x was fast. Games that wanted to be frugal and keep some of their runtime data on the CD needed to assure that that data could be accessed in a reasonable period of time, hence the rating system. And, for the most part, it was good.

      My concern is that Microsoft tends to change the rules arbitrarily, and there's little hope they'll make the standards and rating system open and easy to understand/change/conform to. But if they were to do it right, it would be good.
      • It would be good if it were fearsible. But consider that not only PC hardware is extremely heterogeneous. So are games. A 3D shooter would need a 'system level' calculated out of different components than a comparable strategy game would.
        • ...3DMark [futuremark.com]?

          Seriously, we could have different ranges for a standardized benchmark (I don't want to sound like a pompous ass, but 3DMark is widely used and would be a nice standard to build on/modify/use). If you fit in a certain range (like less than 1500 3DMarks) then that's one class, etc. There are already these kinds of things out there, you just have to categorize them.

    • Re:System levels hard to establish (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:34AM (#5509111)
      I can see what you're saying, especially as, with no real control over the market, we may have a "pc1" system by christmas. It's all standard, and things are good

      Let's say however it doesn't play doom 3. the pc2 spec may, but as there's no control over who does what, some manufacturers will come up with pc1-x. It's a nonstandard 'standard' and plays doom 3, but isn't what pc2 will be. it may even be better than the planned pc2.

      Up comes a quick jump to pc3, where pc1-x2 comes out at the same time. Both systems may by then become too bureaucratically tangled in specs, so pc3+x is created by yet another few manufacturers, and is a simplified more useful spec which works better for most people, but not quite as well as pc3 in pure technical abilities

      so. what do you buy. pc3+x, pc1-x2 or pc3?
    • I have to agree. Just take a look at some of the comparisons on Toms Hardware guide. There can be drsitcally different performance ratings just based on the benchmark system being used. Once you start throwing different chipset and 3d card combos together rating a PC can get down right complex.

      How do they rate a pIII 500 with a ATI 9700-pro vs. a Athalon 2700 with a VoodooII? Depending on what you're using the machine for that PIII 500 might have all the HP you need.

  • playing directly from cd (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gryftir ( 161058 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:19AM (#5509044)
    the man from Microsoft suggests that longhorn will give users the ability to play games directly from the cd, without installation. Which is great in theory, but what does that mean? Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder* or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish. At least that's what I think, if somebody can think up other possibilities, I'm all ears.

    Jacob
    • Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder*

      Isn't... that... what... console... gaming... systems... do... now...?
    • I wonder whats so great about being able to play from the CD? Personally, I'd much rather have it the other way... install the game once, then store the CD somewhere because it won't be needed any more. Having to track down the stupid CD every time you want to play a game would be a pain. Not to mention the problems if it gets scratched or melted or whatever.

      I mean, whats the attraction to being able to run off CD? Hard drive space is pretty cheap these days. I guess maybe there are some people who get intimidated when they try to install software, but if that's the issue it should be fixed by making software installation easier.

    • Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder*

      That's what PS1 and PS2 games do. They load a basic OS into RAM and then mount the CD drive read-only.

      or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish.

      That's pretty much what Xbox games do.

    • the man from Microsoft suggests that longhorn will give users the ability to play games directly from the cd, without installation. Which is great in theory, but what does that mean? Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder* or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish. At least that's what I think, if somebody can think up other possibilities, I'm all ears.

      Yes, because the old Playstation has enough RAM to cache a comp

  • Oh boy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gortbusters.org ( 637314 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:19AM (#5509045) Homepage Journal
    From the article: As has been rumored, Longhorn will likely include a major overhaul in Window's visual presentation, which may include 3D interface elements. Lester also said it would include a special "My Games" view that would centralize all the matchmaking, control panel settings, patching tools, and game lists and make such tasks much simpler. Microsoft is working on streamlining a number of current technical trouble areas, like the installation process and display drivers, and will centralize game updates through a Windows Update-like patch server. It's also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation. Somewhat more straightforward features include adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger and parental controls over which users can play certain games.

    Integrated match making? So, while I'm busy running around in DAOC, blowing shit up in the next Duke Nukem, I can also be matched up... with what? Other games? Dating Services?

    Second interesting point is the no-installation-needed... so PC games and XBox games will be seamlessly transferable? Neato!
    • ie, think of some sort of API that allows game developers to implement said api, and magically have their software appear in this match-finding app. Like the old GameSpy application but with plugin support for new games.

      One less thing for a game maker to worry about building, testing, and putting in their game. As for games, think about Sport games, First Person Shooters, and RTS games, where you are looking to find a quick pickup of X player or some server with a good ping time.

      To a certain extent, this
    • "Matchmaking" is game/opponent location service, like Gamespy.

  • Why a new 'standard' controller? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Papineau ( 527159 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:19AM (#5509046) Homepage

    All computers already have 'standard' controllers: they're called keyboard and mouse. Works like a charm in most game genres I prefer (FPS and RTS).

    • That's the only reason i have gamepad controllers for my PC. The concept of 'standardizing' them just means get the hardware manufacturers to agree on common number of button/analog sticks/d-pads...whatever. So that for each game, I don't have to go through an elabortate mapping tool, or make sure i have the most well known controller. I'd like to be able to pick "PC Controller Standard 1.0" from a list and be done. I'm sure developers wouldn't mind being able to say "tested with a standard controller by co
    • I've always considered the diversity of controlers on the PC to be one of its advantages as a gaming platform. You want to play an RPG or RTS game? Fine use a keyboard or mouse. Want to play a driving game? Get a wheel. Flight sim? Pick a joystick you like.

      DirectInput abstracted the details of the controllers from the developer. All you needed to do was define a set of digital (i.e. button) and analogue (axis) controls, and the uses could configure these to their own preferences. Defining a 'standa

  • Gaming is the next frontier (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Camel Pilot ( 78781 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:20AM (#5509050) Homepage Journal
    At least in terms of generating new hardware and software sales. Right now a 3 year old machine runs most business and office type applications adequately and there is very little incentive to upgrade. Unlike the good old days when an upgrade was need approximately every 1.2 years just to run the newest spreadsheet which had features that you desperately needed.

    Games on the hand are much more intensive and often hook into unique operating system facilities that provide an incentive to upgrade. Case in point I just bought my son a new jet sim game this week end and it would not run wn Win2000 but would on XP. It was dog slow and often froze on my ancient 450 K5 and 900 Mhz Duron. And had be tbinking of buying a new machine while I sat waiting to reboot the system every 30 minutes.
    • If you ask me, that's the PROBLEM with games - they have become the ultimate bloat-ware. Insane memory and processor usage, and the latest 3d visual effects, do not necessarily make a good game - just look at the success of games like The Sims that don't require a $500 3D card and a liquid-cooled processor. Personally, I have more fun playing Sonic the Hedgehog in my emulator...

    • Right now a 3 year old machine runs most business and office type applications adequately and there is very little incentive to upgrade. Unlike the good old days when an upgrade was need approximately every 1.2 years just to run the newest spreadsheet which had features that you desperately needed.

      I think the same can really be said for gaming as well. At one point in the late 90s I was getting a new computer every 1 1/2 years because my old PC just couldn't keep up. In 1999, though, I bought a 500 MH

  • MS doesn't want DX on the PC to outshine the Xbox (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Leknor ( 224175 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:21AM (#5509057)
    Microsoft doesn't want DirectX on the PC to get too far ahead of the Xbox. They don't want developers and people to realize in 2 years the Xbox is a 3 year old PC equilivant of what their grandmother is using.

    • Re:MS doesn't want DX on the PC to outshine the Xb (Score:5, Interesting)

      by atlasheavy ( 169115 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:39AM (#5509146) Homepage
      meanwhile, people were still developing Playstation 1 games long past the time when it was _obvious_ that the Playstation 1 was the three year old PC equivalent of what their grandmother is using. Remember: consoles are special because they represent an unmoving target for game developers. Game developers optimize the hell out of console games, which they simply cannot do with PC games given the wide variety of available hardware (not to mention drivers, 3d lib support, operating systems, etc.) that the game could be running on. So, despite the fact that XBox is no longer (and has never been) a high-end PC, you will still see mind-blowingly complex games coming out for it because of this non-moving target fact. Same thing goes for the PS2, a 300MHz machine with some ridiculously small amount of RAM, and no hard drive.

  • Good work! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jsse ( 254124 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:26AM (#5509071) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft doesn't expect to release another major DirectX update for a couple of years.
    It's also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation.
    Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller

    Microsoft is really heading the right way - gaming. The idea of boot-n-play and standard controller really makes standard PC an excellent game console, and that's the way we long to see. They should really put more focus on what they are really good and and not waste time on fighting with other platforms with things they aren't good at.

    I can foresee the future propaganda of Microsoft Windows - 'Ultimate Gaming Platform for PC and your great office assistant'. :)

  • System Requirements? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TC (WC) ( 459050 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:27AM (#5509080) Journal
    Am I the only person that thinks that System Requirement scheme sounds horrifically complicated and painful. How exactly, do you plan to describe a computer in a single character?

    It simplifies things down to a small number of levels (or to a level of complexity that's stupid, like having to remember that you have a level 3.25 B R23 computer). What happens if you have a processer intensive game that requires little hardware video and sound acceleration? How does that compare to a game that has a great deal of hardware acceleration and requires very little processor power. At least the current system is able to specifically list individual requirements. If, however, you plan to rank individual requirements on a scale of some sort, how does that simplify anything at all?
    • I agree that this is a bad idea, and for much the same reasons. Take a step back, and look at the overall trend that Microsoft is pushing: that of dumbing the PC down. Instead of having the user adapt and learn the manner in which the complicated piece of technology sitting before them works, MS is reducing intelligence needed to use a computer. Instead of a P4 2.0ghz with a Geforce 3, you now have a 'level one PC'. Instead of having users learn how to use file structure, there are hard-coded 'My Music'
    • Release it as an app, and give various classes of machines code words...

      Then you just download an app (or heck, since this is MS, its part of the OS), and every time you click on About Computer or whatever (or even as some sort of icon embedded in a task bar, start menu, whatever) you get a "You have a 'Turnip' class PC!"

      OK, maybe not the Turnip part, but you get the picture. If they choose their iconography or scheme well, then its something that can be printed on the back of a box. Perhaps colors in a r
      • Hmm... interesting idea... but then how do you know when yours is better than someone else's? Is a Turnip better than a Carrot? Then you'd need to list everything good enough to run your game, instead of just a minimum.

  • Uniformity (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Plix ( 204304 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:28AM (#5509083) Homepage
    Software uniformity is hardly the greatest of the PC game-maker's concerns as hardware configurations are far more diverse. It would seem, however, that the new ATI and nVidia offerings are bringing graphics closer and closer to photo-realistic quality and hopefully once such a quality is reached and the majority of casual gamers have the necessary hardware the focus of PC games will shift back towards the gameplay, storyline, and complexity that simply cannot be matched by console games.

    assuming the above occurs, one must also realize that consoles are killing themselves in some aspects. one of the best aspects of early consoles such as the atari 2600 and nintendo was the ease of use - simply pop in a cart and play, no hardware, software, or OS issues. now take a look at the X-Box and PS2 (gamecube doesn't fit the paradigm but also is not as popular and arguably targeted at a much younger audience over all): they have hard-drives, increasingly complex RISC OSs, and are constructed at least partially of modified PC parts. with new features promised such as patches available over the internet and hardware expansions the consoles are turning themselves into nothing more than mini-PCs, and personally I'd rather spend a few hundred more dollars and buy myself a decent desktop PC.
  • Dungeon Siege or Neverwinter Nights. Thats not a tough choice.

    Combat Flight Sim 3 or IL2. Thats not a tough choice.

    Age of Empires or Europa Universalis 2 (for realism) or any command and conquer game (for the same gameplay) That also is not a tough choice

    how about Trainz vs Microsoft Train Simulator. Once again, the non-ms product has it.

    Okay, the microsoft 4x4 monster truck game (cant rememvber the title exacly) against 4x4 EVO. I would rather have the non-microsoft SUV.

    The close combat series wa
  • Hope their new standard includes support for daisy chaining controllers. Not that LAN play isn't vastly superior to split-screen, but since they're trying to do it right they might as well go all the way.

  • "Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bobobobo ( 539853 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:34AM (#5509109)
    Hey Mr. Game Developer, why don't you go ahead and port that nifty new pc game to the Xbox2 too while you're at it? Look it has a controller also, what a coincidence!
  • Sure hit Linux users where it hurts the most...games!!! Now theres less and less chance for Linux compatible games. Its gonna be Linux for office/technical stuff and Windows for gaming...ohh wait:)

  • The basic premise is not all that bad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CTD ( 615278 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:37AM (#5509132) Homepage
    Ignore the Microsoft connection and look at what they are basically pitching: An operating system designed with a set of standards that will make it easy for developers to design games. Right down to the controller.

    The only drawback I can find is that it's a "super console plus!" situation. I'm a gamer, and I'm fine with that.

    I've often speculated that a distribution of Linux should be made that is specifically geared toward gaming. Coordinate hardware support with the major vendors so their product works with ease, and build the OS specifically to deliver fast processing for gaming. Anything that has nothing to do with playing games is cut out of it.

    Keep it free. Let game distributors bundle it with the games they sell. If the OS was good enough to deliver DoomIII on the day of retail, and you were able to tie down some major title support, it could work. Suddenly every gamer out there is running a Linux distribution to play their games. Suddenly every major developer is developing games just for Linux. Why? Because the OS functions well as a gaming OS (by design), and because it's free so everyone can have it.

    In effect, you create a Linux standard for gaming, that can run top quality games, and is free.

    Many of us have Windows because the best games work on it. Games are designed to work on Windows because most of us have Windows. Circular, but true.

    If Doom III, GTA IV, and EverQuest 2 all came out for Mac and Mac alone, I'd be typing this on a blue keyboard right now. If they all came from Linux, I'd be typing this in a Mozilla window.

    Mind you, I'd try this myself, but I can't code myself out of a 486 and have to feed my kids so I can't go urchin and skip on the rest of my life. :)
    • Scientific visualization software can benefit from game API's -- I can think of uses for ScrollWindowEx() (hardware screen scrolls for maps, chart recorders, voice prints like the Kay 5500 hardware spectrum analyser used in forensic work), CreateDIBSection() (writing directly to bitmap pixels for blits), and IDirectDraw:WaitForVerticalRetrace() (to reduce flicker and tear).

      How come none of this stuff made it over to .NET? (OK there is the image class LockBits() method, but things get ugly with unsafe code

    • If you want to put the linux spin on it, that'll work as well as anything else. I'm absolutely shocked that there is not a gaming specific OS on the market today that will operate on it's own, or make it simple to dual boot to another OS.
      No extras, No office, no MSpaint, no purpose other than to devote every available resource to gaming. It would be a gimme. Anyone who spends 100+ on a video card would drop 50 on this OS if it will run the games noticeably better.
      I only wish I had the coding skills to pr

    • Re:The basic premise is not all that bad (Score:5, Funny)

      by dghcasp ( 459766 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:18AM (#5509300)
      build the OS specifically to deliver fast processing for gaming. Anything that has nothing to do with playing games is cut out of it.
      # GameOS 1.0

      # Real games don't need no steenking hw
      # abstraction, scheduler or VM - Write to
      # hardware directly, foo!

      .orig=$ffffa0a4 # Main h/w boot pointer
      jbsr.l GameStart;
      hacf;

  • Two thoughts (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stevarooski ( 121971 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:37AM (#5509136) Homepage
    From the article:

    The plan is to set up a numerical system that categorizes and groups system levels, and when this goes into effect in 2005 or so, a level-1 system might represent the current or year-old value-priced PC configurations, while level 2 and level 3 group systems that define the mainstream and high-end performance of the time.

    This strikes me as bad solution to an already sticky problem. Whats to stop a studio from saying a game that runs at 10fps on a system considered a "1" from slapping a "1" rating on it in order to maximize their possible audience? Its all about sales, right? In addition, I wonder if in 2005 the hardware change-rate will be any different, limitations of silicon or no.

    Somewhat more straightforward features include adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger . . .[Microsoft is] also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation. . . .Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller, which would allow a more seamless conversion of cross-platform titles and generally simplify the use of PC gamepads.

    Great, I've got a computer with a standard Microsoft controller, great graphics, that plays my DVDs, music, etc, and has matchmaking for me at no extra cost outside of bandwidth. Tell me again why I'd want an X-box?

    Sure, there are other reasons for owning one, but it does seem that Microsoft, in working to console-ize the PC, might be somewhat shooting themselves in the foot. . . ? I'm sure they've thought of/discussed this, but it still strikes me as counter productive when they remain dedicated to the console industry.

    • This strikes me as bad solution to an already sticky problem. Whats to stop a studio from saying a game that runs at 10fps on a system considered a "1" from slapping a "1" rating on it in order to maximize their possible audience? Its all about sales, right? In addition, I wonder if in 2005 the hardware change-rate will be any different, limitations of silicon or no.

      Well, they could set it up in a fashion similar to how they handle console games and require a certification for each game that holds the r

  • A few interesting things here. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TaranRampersad ( 650261 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:45AM (#5509171) Homepage Journal

    (1) Standalone CDs - With what I've read on Longhorn, this shouldn't be an issue - since the traditional file system will be replaced by a registry type database. However, for massively multimedia intensive games, there will be a physical need for installation - unless they mean DVD instead of CD.

    (2) Standardization of a PC controller - this could be fun, because if they actually standardize, it would mean that people could build their own controllers... *if* they make it an Open Standard. History says no.

    (3) With DirectX 9 stalled and 64 bit processors due out shortly, I wonder if the hooks for utilizing the 64 bit instruction set for the new Intel are already there - or if Microsoft is handing AMD a nice swing at a juicy ball.

    (4) Centralization of game patch updates is interesting in that it means that game manufacturers may become inspired to put out shoddy first releases so that people need to go through the Update server to get the fixes that make things work... and if they didn't buy the title... Well, think about it.

    (5) "adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger and parental controls over which users can play certain games" adds to point 4, but also demonstrates that they are also doing something naughty that the DoJ had something to say about.

    In all... Just more Microsoft. No really *good* news.

  • Perhaps they plan to tie the PC into the next XBOX (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cbreaker ( 561297 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:48AM (#5509187) Journal
    It seems to me that from reading this article they may be planning on compatibility between Loghorn and Xbox2.

    Standard Controller, possibility of running games from CD, centralized game management. Since the Xbox is basically a PC, and the games are basically Windows games using DirectX, this isn't a stretch of the imagination.

    Buy one game, and run it on your Xbox2 or your PC. Play online with people running Xbox2's and you can use your PC, or vice versa. With a standard PC "gamepad" it would be the same type of controls.

    I don't think this would be a terrible idea, but it sure would push game developers more to a "windows only" choice of platforms, which isn't really great. I'm still hoping for more games on Linux.

    • compatibility between Loghorn and Xbox2.

      Does that mean Microsoft is going to call Longhorn "Windows XB"?

      Since the Xbox is basically a PC, and the games are basically Windows games using DirectX, this isn't a stretch of the imagination.

      The Xbox 1 has NVIDIA graphics. Requiring an Xbox 2 compatible video card for whatever version of DirectX comes with Longhorn would pretty much hand the video card market to NVIDIA. Watch the next administration (that is, without AG A$$croft) breakup such a monopolis

  • Systems Engineering (Score:3, Interesting)

    by VoidEngineer ( 633446 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:48AM (#5509190)
    So, I'll add my two cents, as an MCSE...

    The plan is to set up a numerical system that categorizes and groups system levels, and when this goes into effect in 2005 or so, a level-1 system might represent the current or year-old value-priced PC configurations, while level 2 and level 3 group systems that define the mainstream and high-end performance of the time.

    This numerical system could also be described as a "commodification system", a "social-engineering system", or a "market manipulation system". Be wary of this numerical system. This plan is begging to commodify PCs into more "bundled" and "console" like systems. Which, of course, is contrary to the concept of a generalized computing device, which many people believe a PC should be. My suggestion would be to clamor and veto this plan, if possible... It seems to have bad karma written all over it...

    Lester revealed that DirectX 9 packs enough features to be future-proof and is a temporary stopping place for DX development.

    A rather bold statement, all things considered. Does it support autostereoscopic monitors? How about lectiliniar monitors [stereographics.com]? What about multi-layer LCD or wave-monitors?

    And what multi-head display configurations? Will it support a 9 screen configuration, in case I decide to build a dedicated MechWarrior station? (Anybody remember LucasArt's "X-Wing"? Heh... I always wanted to build a multi-head game pod for that game...)

    Also, what about DICOM datasets and other volumetric biomedical datasets? Them algorithm based games are nice and all, but what about future games which may want to encorporate medical-grade bioinformatics? "Future-proof" is an awefully strong statement, it seems to me...

    Anyhow... I don't know where I was going with this post. Just a couple of cents to add to the discussion...

  • It's all about choice, baby. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @12:49AM (#5509196)
    For me, the whole purpose of comp gaming is a wide variety in accessories. If I want to play a game using a mouse, then I can do it. If I want to use the keyboard, then I can do it. If I want to use my Belkin Nostromo and a Logitech Cordless Optical mouse, then I can do it.

    I don't want to be forced to use a single console for a game, on a standarised system, playing games that can't be modded (Palladium), written using proprietary medium formats (DVD+/-), and using a single, specific OS. The computer is the Nascar of electronic gaming; in my opinion, consoles are just "street legals."

  • ... about the future of the PC, it's that it won't include Microsoft.

    Perhaps they'll still be around for the next 5 years or so, while the last few people still gulp down their proprietary wares.

    Honestly, there's no longer any reason to take these jokers seriously.

  • um, it seems to me that uniformity needs to be (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Rooked_One ( 591287 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:13AM (#5509281) Journal
    brought to the console...

    How many different console systems can you name that have the same controller?

    I thought so - now think of how easy you have changed your binds on another person's pc when you are about to start gibbing.

    thought so.

    • I think you got a bit carried away there. ;)

      Take a PlayStation 2 game. It'll run on any other PS2 (in that region, anyway) because they all have the same hardware config. The game will run on later revisions of the PS2 (the PSone was revised several times, you can tell from the version numbers and designs). A PC game can not possibly have been tested on every hardware config out there, so it's almost inevitable that bugs/glitches/weirdness will arise on someone's system.

      As for controllers, PSone and PS2 c
  • Is you have a range of $500-$4000 consoles that play mostly the same games.

    Ask 3DO how well it works out to sell consoles for around $700.

  • They can have my wheel and pedal set. . . (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kfg ( 145172 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:24AM (#5509324)
    When they pry it from my cold dead fingers, and toes.

    Same goes for my flight stick.

    The PC is *not* a console. That's kinda the point. It's a *general purpose* machine which one can adapt as one likes. Hell, they've even had to supply wheel and pedal sets for consoles now. Using anything else for seriously playing driving sims doesn't even make sense.

    I like adaptation, of the machine to me. Not the other way around, and I've never seen no "game pad" in a Fokker DR1.

    KFG

  • A few points (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 14, 2003 @01:32AM (#5509356)
    A) How can you patch a game that isn't installed? Seriously, this doesn't seem possible.

    B) Microsoft wants to certify certain hardware for Windows, and now Microsoft wants to create PCs built to a certain specification... does this strangely sound like Microsoft telling a lot of hardware vendors that they will either have to make clones of other pieces of hardware (and face the patent and copyright police) or to stop producing for the PC?

    C) Microsoft, with its' Microsoft Messenger Matchmaker, is going to severly harm or kill match making software such as GameSpy. All your patches will come through something very similar to Windows Update and most everything will be in a Microsoft sounding "My Games" area. This company wasn't split because the US Govt. thought that they were not a monopoly?

    D) One controller, for all games... doesn't this sound like Microsoft needing to give permission to people like Logitech if they want to invent something new (like, force feedback back before it was invented)?

    One last thing, with you needing to go through all of these Microsoft services, running all of this Microsoft signed equiptment, and alike... I fear that privacy will be hard to enforce, at best...

    Also, try to tell all the Overclockers and other insane computer people buying the latest hardware to speed up their machine that it won't be possible to do that anymore, instead they will need to go for a package deal and run at Microsoft specs... will this elite group of hardcore shoppers (willing to spend tons of money) stick around for these new terms? Somehow, I don't think so.

  • Restrict Markets Again (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jpt.d ( 444929 ) <.abfall. .at. .rogers.com.> on Friday March 14, 2003 @02:00AM (#5509477)
    Look at a few of the games lately, WC3 shipped with both mac and win versions on the same cd, SC4 is coming out for the mac, Moo3 just shipped with portability IN MIND, and mac is coming quite soon now). This is a bit of a trend that is becoming more common. What I think is that Microsoft wants to stop this sort of thing or make it extremely difficult. While it would be natural for that, Microsoft might have an ace up its sleeve trying to make something very tempting to use.
  • Exists, I have a
    UT/Q3-class computer.
    where as MrChris (a friend of mine, with more monney than sense) has a "Doom III"-class computer, the bastard, and my brother (with my hand-me-down) has a Halflife-class computer, and my firewall is a Doom-class computer.

  • .NET and matchmaking (Score:5, Funny)

    by Moochman ( 54872 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @02:40AM (#5509627)
    Great! Now I'll be able to use my Passport .NET account for matchmaking services! I can't wait for Microsoft to begin providing such wonderful subscription services, can you? I'm salivating just thinking of the day when I can pay Microsoft a monthly rate to fulfill all of my gaming, word processing, e-mail and internet needs.

  • The delay of DX10... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sirwar ( 659041 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @04:27AM (#5509913)
    ...might give developers and computers a chance to catch up(possibly the reason for the delay). Right now we have games NOT being written for DX9 because most people still don't even have a DX8 video card. Hardware and software and keeping pace with each other, but the consumer is left in the dust. Its just time for a slow-down. Just like Intel and AMD producing ever-faster CPUs every other day, there gets to be a time when the market just says "ENOUGH! I'm happy with what I've got."

    This gives hardware guys time to just pump out faster models, and take their time creating some big changes in new designs.

    -Sir

  • Go ahead, pull the other leg. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by A_Non_Moose ( 413034 ) on Friday March 14, 2003 @11:41AM (#5511661) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft will update its Sidewinder line

    Considering how well my Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro works in Win2k (hint: can't use the hat switch and fire at the same time in MS OS's > 2k}.

    I knew I should have stuck with the Logitec Wingman, but the hat switch on that thing kept getting broken {and Descent 2 multiplayer wasn't helping either}.

    Oh, and you know why the 3D pro doesn't work properly in 2k...Microsoft won't update the drivers. {I've heard the win98 software will make it work, but no scripted events. Have not tried it, yet}.

    IMO, before Microsoft attempts to make universal games and controllers, they should try to make their own hardware work with their software.

    {grrr}

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