Looking at Video Games and Violence 404
rootrider writes "Mark Rahner of the Seattle Times has written a great article discussing the recent trend here in the US to outlaw the purchase of violent video games by minors. I'm sure articles have been written in the past that refute the idea that video games lead to violence, but this is the first mainstream article I've seen that details the issue and does it well." The trend isn't really that new. In the past, Ozzy Osbourne and Dungeons and Dragons have been favorite scapegoats, and when I was in high school it was gangsta rap music. I can't wait until we can attribute violence to the nightly news.
oh so timely (Score:5, Funny)
PVP comic strip from yesterday [pvponline.com]
Re:oh so timely (Score:5, Funny)
Similar things have happened to me...
Quoting the Simpsons..... (Score:5, Funny)
Behind most "well meaning" laws designed to protect children, is a facist who simply wants to limit your freedom.
Re:Quoting the Simpsons..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously tho, there is a Brisbane Australian Academic who I'm verry fond of called "John Hartley", and in his book "teleology, studies in television", he uses a word "Paedocracy"; Rule by children for children.
Basically the idea is that in the interests of "protecting the children", adult interests are subsumed to the point where we become as children under the regulatory reigme of parenthood. The adult never gets to 'become' an adult.
Interestingly almost EVERY study done thats found that violent tv or games causes probs in kids have tended to either come from
(A) Right wing think tanks, which most academics I've met rate somewhere around creationism in the legitimacy stakes (ie zero) or
(B) Have methodological holes the size of craters.
What *HAS* come across however, is that the only tv violence that does seem to mess with kids is.... news violence! Basically the idea is that for young kids, the violence on TV is real, and de-contextualised. Kids have a surprisingly well honed ability to tell real from play, and the worse "play" violence on TV/games seems to lead to is occasionally rougher play in the schoolyard. (Ie recreating powerrangers etc), but not to fisticuffs or anything.
Now, just the other day, a friend of mine told me in rather exasperated terms how he was freaked out that his 4 year old daughter was terrified that mister president bush was going to fly a plane and bomb her day care center. She didnt understand that the little blown up kids on the tv set (Hey nice one TV guys, showing bodies on newsflashes during 9am cartoons.. gee thanx) was part of a complex series of political events staged on the other side of the planet. The 4yo brain just dont get that iraq is not a 5 minute bus ride away, and that the Americans are 'on our side'.
Basically , she dont get the context, but knew the killing was real.
And thats the rub. Real violence causes real problems, while 'pretend' violence only leads to 'pretend' problems.
Re:Quoting the Simpsons..... (Score:2)
Re:Quoting the Simpsons..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, as a conservative, I COULD take what you said wrong. But I won't because Im not a knee jerk kinda guy, and I see the validity in your statement, even if I think the target is a bit broad. There is a difference in people who are 1) conservative (me) and 2) Religious Right Dogmatist (not me).
Your main point is right on the money. Not only do so many expect kids to grow up too fast by subjecting them to all this war violence, but then underestimate them by thinking they cant tell the difference between real and pretend.
The problem is NOT the kids, its the adults that forget the difference. Unfortunately, many people forget how to pretend and just "play" somewhere along the way. TV and game violence is not a good mental diet if its the main thing a child (or adult for that matter) see, but we ARE preditory carnivores (PETA be damned) so the idea of certain violence is pretty normal. Cowboys and Indians (oops, native americans), soldiers, cops and robbers, etc. have been a natural part of a child's existance since time began. Its a natural part of growing up. In moderation, its perfectly normal and healthy, unless we want to raise a generation of mindless goobs. Showing REAL violence on TV, such as the newsflash during cartoons, is NOT. This also takes away a parents right to decide if their child is ready to see this or not, by simply imposing this information on them.
And thats the rub. Real violence causes real problems, while 'pretend' violence only leads to 'pretend' problems.
But as usual, some feelgoodnicks will worry about petty shit, like games, instead of the real problems. Its like the minority of COPS who won't chase a guy with a gun, but will jack up a pot smoker, because "pot smokers don't shoot back". They get to "feel good that I made a difference" while not actually risking anything. Its a form of social masturbation, where they are more concerned about LOOKING important, and having something to brag about at cocktail parties.
They might as well march on DC with signs that say "Crime is Bad!". Well duh, but this cures nothing but their own desire to be self important.
Re:Quoting the Simpsons..... (Score:2)
BOWLING!
In other news.... (Score:2, Funny)
Can I blame Denis Leary now?
I don't know (Score:2)
Because the only thing I noticed. In his article, were all the fragments.
Wrote a paper about this (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wrote a paper about this (Score:2)
Diversions (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Diversions (Score:2, Insightful)
A game is a game. War is war. They are separate.
Re:Diversions (Score:2, Funny)
Well, if you put it like that... I could probably get into a game where I get to slaughter, dismember, torture, eviscerate, perforate, electrocute, vaporize, annihilate, massacre, butcher and really badly hurt spammers... know of such a game?
Re:Diversions (Score:2)
This is a great idea though, anyone care to make a Half-life mod involving tormenting spammers? heh
Re:Diversions (Score:2)
Re:Diversions (Score:2)
Ariel Sharon is a highly violent dude to be sure, but I doubt 100% that he said "The jews control america".. That stinks to high heaven of protocols of zion kinda junk. Palestine will *never* be liberated by anti-semetism. That just plays into the hands of nazis.
And I *seriously* doubt the CIA crashed the planes into those buildings...
Re:Diversions (Score:2)
Ariel sharons occupation is illegal and immoral, but that dont make it right to think israel has a right to exist. Do you see the difference?
Israel , one side of the border. Palestine , the other. And a big fucken UN peacekeeper force in between. And maybe Jerusalem should be
Face it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Face it (Score:4, Insightful)
What about adults? (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
What does this mean for America's Army? (Score:5, Funny)
What ever will happen to our Government's new military recruiting tool?
(I suppose they'll go back to talking to real life recruiters and finding out.. oh nevermind!)
Re:What does this mean for America's Army? (Score:2, Insightful)
I suppose they'll go back to talking to real life recruiters and finding out...
America's Army was nevery about replacing real life recruiters. Think of it more as a movie trailer. You see it and think, "Wow that looks cool. I think I'll go see the movie." But you still need to go and buy tickets, show ID (for kids trying to go see R movies), and buy candy and popcorn.
All the trailer does is get you interested. I think it is a really great idea overall. Mostly becuase kids now tend to spend more
Re:What does this mean for America's Army? (Score:3, Interesting)
What ever will happen to (y)our Government's new military recruiting tool?
Speaking as a) a norwgian, b) an officer in the Royal Norwegian Airforce (RNoAF), and c) as a officer in the RNoAF whos duties involes recruiting youngsters for a military education, I would say that AA is a pretty useless / stupid (delete as appropriate) tool for recruitment. It is a middle to good game, but is gamers what the armed forces really need? I'm more in favour of - and has used as recuitment tools - information given i
influence of the news (Score:5, Insightful)
I see two kinds of influence:
* News reports may create copycats out of weak minds. Let's say you catch some cretins throwing rocks on cars from bridges over freeways. If you make too much publicity of the case, you'll have imbeciles doing the same thing all over.
* More importantly, news reporting may alter the way people perceive the world and human interactions.
Let us take international relations. If you're brought up in the idea that your country is the best in every domain and the rest of the world is just made of jealous jerks, you obviously have a different outlook on violence - specifically, you may not be reluctant to approve the use of violence by your government.
Re:influence of the news (Score:3, Interesting)
Very insightful..... I wish more people read the press from at least two other countries regularly.
Or here is another example-- I read the Israeli press quite often and one wonders what lead si
Re:influence of the news (Score:2)
Where does it end? PAX AMERICANA, with Emperor Bush in charge.
the US and Saudi Arabia (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not anti-American; I've got numerous American friends and colleagues, I've worked in the US for a while, I was in New York last January and will come back to the US for business purposes at least once more this year.
Of course, my message was alluding partly to the American media. My opinion on these is that even alleged serious newspapers such as the New-York Times have degraded standards when it comes to international news. All too often, the international news articles would be more appropriately moved to a "commentary" or "opinion" section.
One troubling fact, for instance, is that all too often these articles dwell on alleged motivations, often implying that actions by foreign people or leaders are motivated by anti-Americanism or envy. Let me given you an example: in a recent article [nytimes.com] commenting on the opposition from several judicial bodies to a proposal to change French criminal procedure to include plea bargain, the journalist commented: "In France, perceived concessions to English-American forms of law, no matter how slight, have run into strong resistance.". Now, of course, this implies this resistance is motivated by anti-Americanism, ignoring real concerns about constitutional rights such as the right to a fair trial. In short, the journalist attributes motivations to people who cannot defend themselves. Is that reporting, or partisan comment?
I won't even mention the moral judgments routinely doled out as facts. The point is that such so-called reporting is bound to shape the impressions of the reader in a certain direction, in this case to believe that any opposition to the policies of the United States government is motivated by dubious issues.
Now you can understand better what happens in countries such as Saudi Arabia. In those countries, the media and the education system are even more biased. People are taught from their infancy that, say, the Jews are cunning liars. They are taught about the moral superiority of their religion compared to the "immoral" West.
The parallel is striking. Self-righteous biased reporting replacing facts and objective analysis. Of course, the situation in Saudi Arabia is far worse than in any Western countries, but still one should always pay attention to the agendas of the media outlets.
The link to violence? Why do all these people sponsors terrorist groups through so-called "charities"? Where do they find the terrorists? Part of the explanation seems to be that prejudice ingrained from infancy breeds violence.
Halo...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Halo...? (Score:2)
You'd probably wa
Re:Halo...? (Score:2)
The controls of Halo are designed with the concept of performance-enhancing exoskeleton-like armor with a HUD. Show me one of these, and I will believe that it is a sniper-training game
Iraq war (Score:2)
The war in Iraq is more than enough violence for me.
Re:Iraq war (Score:5, Interesting)
I do have an issue with the 'embedded' coverage not showing complete combat footage or dead bodies. There should be an adult news channel where the full account resides - to remind us what is being lost in those battles.
War is sad, its just sometimes necessary. The whole truth of it should be shown regardless.
Idea sources (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't put much stake in the whole "violent video games makes you eeeevil" thing either. It's sort of another source for ideas. Just how many murder mystery books have "inspired" murders? Think "Basic Instinct."
But kids don't read these days, so there've been fewer book-burnings...
OK, the truth. (Score:5, Informative)
What violent games have done is allwed me an amazingly simple venting system to get rid of stress. Get home from work, and go kill virtual people. Works wonders for relaxation. Exercise would probably work, but hey, im lazy. THey can have my video games over several dead bodies.
Re:OK, the truth. (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have any idea what it does to your brain to associate killing and the sounds of killing with RELAXATION?
Wake up computer guys: there are things called attitudes and emotions. Those are what propaganda uses to get you to buy/think stuff.
Re:OK, the truth. (Score:2)
Hm. If at least a portion of behavior wasn't governed by rational thought, I doubt we'd have civilization.
Few people - that I've met, anyway - who play video games are violent at all. AMAF most of them are pretty peaceful nerds who'd rather sit in front of a monitor then even play a mild contact sport.
SB
PRobably makes it less prone to violent outburts (Score:2)
Boxing dosent count, im my book, because they are both committing acts of controlled violence that are acceptable withn the realms of the rules that have been set out.
Meanwhile, most professional sports glorify the players that suddenly get angry, and start beatin
A little different than blaming heavy metal (Score:5, Insightful)
However, I do myself play Soldier of Fortune II and so I can understand that some might be concerned that kids playing a game all day long that involves shooting your opponent might somehow be predisposed to shooting someone in real life.
But training, as the D.C. snipers have suggested? That's crazy. Even after playing so much that my right wrist aches, I can't imagine that I'm now more capable with an AK47 than I was before SOFII.
Furthermore, when I was a kid, trying not to get eaten by Tyrannosaurus Rex, we actually ran around outdoors with fake guns or BB guns and stalked each other. Those low-tech methods were surely more effective at grooming future killers than the sit-on-your-ass and get fat video alternatives.
and..... (Score:2)
xao
Hypocritical (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hypocritical (Score:5, Insightful)
Lately there was even a kid suspended for having a laser pointer. Guess the teacher mistook it for a laser sight or something.
Never underestimate the people who will use any event to ram through their agendas while everyone else is too stunned to object
.
Re:Hypocritical (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hypocritical (Score:2, Insightful)
I call these people republicans
Re:Hypocritical (Score:2)
Re:Hypocritical (Score:2)
The Nightly News (Score:3, Funny)
Chris
Absolutely! (Score:3, Funny)
America needs more sharpshooters! :-)
Parents are the problem, not video games. (Score:3, Insightful)
Find me a gun with auto targeting and mouselook (Score:5, Insightful)
Thats just the starting point. The fact is, the only person who makes you do anything is YOU. I grew up on good ol' PBS. Monty Python didn't turn me into a drag racing nun. Or a nude pianist. Red Dwarf didn't turn me into a cat. The Red Green Show didn't make me very handy (I wish it had though, I'm not all that handsome). And that was all before I became a teenager. Add in the Atari 2600 I swapped in for a Nintendo in my 6th grade year, and later for a super nintendo, and according to these idiots, I've turned out to be some kind of saint or something since I haven't shot anyone or tried to fry them with Street Fighter 2 moves.
Re:Find me a gun with auto targeting and mouselook (Score:4, Insightful)
I watched thousands of Tom and Jerry cartoons as a kid but have never hit anyone in the face with a frying pan.
Re:Find me a gun with auto targeting and mouselook (Score:2)
Yeah, that was, like my favorite game ever and I never...is he modding me down? SHOOOOOORYUKEN!
Once again I'll share a 23 year old fathers point (Score:5, Insightful)
for my children, this is just rediculous. #2, Most
of the games I bought for my Playstation/Computer
were bought with the mindset I want something I'll
like just as much as my son will. So does this
mean that me buying resident evil and such and then
letting my son play make me a bad father?? I don't
know how many of you have kids out there in
but the ones who do I think will agree that kids now
don't quite fit into the old catagories. I mean my
son (age 6) already has better views on life, and
understands a lot more than most people that are
older than me. I don't think it's the fact that
video games teach them anything, I think it's the
fact that most parents buy kids video games to
"keep kids out of thier hair". I mean you take
the whole colombine shooting, these kids had all
kinds of stuff in the basement (pipe bombs/whatever),
so that just shows how much attention the parents
were paying to them. I think the parents of these
kids that go on shooting sprees just don't want to
admit that they weren't doing thier job, or that
maybe thier kids had some real issues. It's just
easier to blame a game company, and not to mention
that if you actually do win a case against a game
company you get a pretty good payment. These
people need to worry more about talking to thier
kids and less time trying to take thier rights.
Just my opinion
Scoobywan
Re:Once again I'll share a 23 year old fathers poi (Score:2)
Disclamer-- I do not yet have any children of my own.
I actually wish more parents had your mentality. Way too often parents/schools/the government/others assume that children are mindless blank-slates which need to be programed just like that spare athlon and that without programming, the child is nothing...
Children are amazing, inquisitive, and social. They like it when others take the time to share with them, and love is one of the most powerful emotions for a child. I think th
Re:Once again I'll share a 23 year old fathers poi (Score:2)
The autistic, the Aspie, the nerd & the geek kids aren't that social. We spend most of our time on the computer or in the library - parents hardly call reading a book sociable.
Re:Once again I'll share a 23 year old fathers poi (Score:2)
Bowling for Columbine (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bowling for Columbine (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Bowling for Columbine (Score:2)
Especially with the "embedded reporters". Politicans in both the US and UK moaning about other journalists showing other things. Even firing of journalists who are non-PC.
I do think this is an important point, bu
full of errors (Score:2)
Re:full of errors (Score:2)
Wow, Spinsanity seemed to totally gloss over the whole point of Bowling for Columbine. Example:
He dismisses typical liberal concerns about poverty creating crime, noting that, "Liberals contend [gun violence is a result of] all the poverty we have here. But the unemployment rate in Canada is twice what we have here." By every measure of international comparison, though, Canada's poverty rate is significantly lower than that of the U.S., thanks to the generous social insurance programs that he repeatedly
Re:full of errors (Score:2)
I especially liked the part where Spinsanity quoted Moore as supporting banning of all guns and then "I don't think, ultimately, getting rid of the guns will be the answer." Umm, those aren't conflicting statements, contrary to what the article implies. Maybe getting rid of guns will be part of the answer? Maybe? Can you see his point? Even if you don't agree with it?
I can see whe
Just a heads up (Score:2)
Re:Bowling for Columbine (Score:2)
Likewise, the closest we have to CNN Headline News is CTV Newsnet. They have to stick closely to the script, and when they decide
Re:Bowling for Columbine (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, it's just too bad that anyone who didn't already agree with his agenda will never bother to see it.
It's the parents, stupid! (Score:2)
Blaming the kids is a lie and a shame
You ought to know just who's to blame
The mother and the father
(Point of reference: this is when Veruca Salt and her father found exactly where the bad eggs went when they were disposed of out of the manufacturing facility. I have not read the book, but knowing what I do of the author it's fairly close.)
When are people going to remember that it's up to parents and not video
wtf? (Score:3, Funny)
Can you rap, Cowboyneal [yahoofs.com]?
Christ, I'm tired of this.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Christ, I'm tired of this.... (Score:5, Funny)
(anyone who has spent five minutes in an Electronic Boutique knows that the average age of a video game purchaser is less than 28)
Alas, your overwhelming anecdotal evidence trumps our woefully inadequate extensively researched statistics and scientific studies. We might as well just give up now, because we've already lost.
Re:Christ, I'm tired of this.... (Score:2)
Now that's a pretty foolish argument. Do you really believe that EB sells most games? What about Walmart, Target, BestBuy? Not to mention online sources such as Amazon? EB is a mall vendor, and kids hang out in malls. Adults don't have time to hang out in malls. As an over-28 game buyer, I buy per
Re:Christ, I'm tired of this.... (Score:2)
wow. Where is your EB at, in the kiddie playground at McDonalds? I was just at a GameStop today picking up Final Fantasy Origins, and quite a few of the people came into the store while I was hunting through the disorganized playstation 1 section. All of them but one were adults or children with
Re:Christ, I'm tired of this.... (Score:2)
Oh? and you know, because...you lived thru it? You must be one of those low ID old fogies. "Yeah, in my day, we were happier digging roots out of the ground, getting injured hunting wooly mammoths dying of simple infection, and having our teeth rot out before we died at the age of 24. You kids have it easy."
I bow to your wisdom, oh elder.
Seriously, if you think civilization is the
it worked for me! (Score:2)
And now I am an axe-murderer.
Don't be like me.
Dungeons and Dragons DOES corrupt (kinda) (Score:5, Funny)
Whilst browsing, I came across one of my old characters, a cleric who had chronic gastric problems that would most likely be fatal. I remember having that hobbled priest when I was 15, and thinking about how damn unlucky I was to have to play a virtual cripple.
Ten years later I was diagnosed with chronic ulcerative colitis (a bowel disease similar to Crohn's disease), exactly what that cleric had. And, similarly, my situation deteriorated over an 18-month period until the day came when I had to choose between major surgery and certain death - a seemingly obvious choice but one which was still the hardest decision I've ever had to make (believe me, if you're ever in the same boat then you'll understand why).
Now, I'm not saying that AD&D ruined my life, or that playing it cast some wicked curse on my life. But I do think that, any day now, I'm due to find a ring of invisibility, boots of speed and a +3 vorpal sword, and when that day comes, I'm gonna kick some major ass.
I knew someone would link Chick Tracts... (Score:3, Funny)
Mystery Science Theatre 3000 meets Dark Dungeons [fecundity.com]
Shock and Awe (Score:5, Insightful)
Cart before the horse (Score:2, Insightful)
Boycotts everywhere... (Score:5, Interesting)
There I saw a familiar sight. There was a poster of GTA3 along with a printed message saying "This store does not carry the following games: GTA3, GTA: Vice City and BMX XXX. because we don't sell violent games to youngsters. We boycott these games"
The really catered to the asshole in me and I asked exactly why they did not want to sell these games. The clerk stumbled out som answer like "We don't want young people to see graphic contents etc.". I asked her if she had actually read the covre of games like GTA:VC. The cover here is covered with a warning not to distribute to youngsters, approx 1/3 of the front in size. She had not.
I asked her if the store prevously had a practise of selling this game to children, thus ignoring the manufacturer's warning. She said no.
I then said that if you only sold the game to people 18 years of age, why boycott it? She could not give an answer to that.
I then spoke to the store manager and said: "I disagree to your boycott and have decided to cease all purchases from this store and all Expert stores until you let people think a bit for themselves. This wil cost you the following in lost sales in near future."
The owner really got something to think about then. He looked dumbfounded.
I walked out of that store and went to a mom-and-pop electronics storer that did not carry videogames at all and they were nicer and cheaper. After completing the purchases there I went to the Expert store and showed the manager the 3000USD reciept for sales he missed. I underlined that I would NEVER purchase anything there, but walk a click to the next store.
Again, I believe he started to think about the boycott.
Re:Boycotts everywhere... (Score:2)
Consumers are starting to think????!!!!! What Next! They might even start voting!!
Scramble the F1/11's!!! We might have a terrorist on our hands!
Re:Boycotts everywhere... (Score:2)
As for the flaunting part, it wasn't to rub it in the face of the owner, but to prove that I would what I threatened to do. A lot of people voice their opinions but do nothing. E.g.: I seriously don't think you would call me a moron to my face.
People have a choice. They do not have to buy the game and give it to their kids. I would never let my kids play this game, s
When to boycott and when boycotts are a PITA (Score:2)
I agree the store's policy is stupid, but try checking every once in a while to see if they fixed the policy. You should end the boycott when they change their mind. There is no incentive for them to change if they think you'll never go back anyway.
There is a christian sect who make up the majority of people where I live. They have a very hard rule against doing business on sundays. (though they break it all the time.) One of the church leaders declared a boycott on a grocery store because they were open
Re:When to boycott and when boycotts are a PITA (Score:2)
If media violence really affected children... (Score:2)
Todays Penny Arcade is on the spot! (Score:2)
look at the statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm [usdoj.gov]
overall, violent crime in the US has been on the decline since 1993.
interesting coincidence: the decline started the year DOOM was released, one of the first widespread, graphically violent games.
and a proven statistic: the higher the unemployment, the higher the crime rate. does this mean we can make bad economic policy illegal too?
Warnography (Score:2)
Current, mainstream TV news coverage of the invasion of Iraq is nothing more than pornography. No analysis. Simply as many different angles of view of the same act repeated over and over until it just is. I have cow-orkers who talk about nothing else couching what they could never understand in so many CNN/FoxNewsisms. Look at the way Chemical Ali was done on MSNBC: he face was plastered beside a Sid Meyersesque char
I cant believe this DENIAL you guys live in. (Score:2, Insightful)
Have you guys EVER studied behavioral sciences at ALL?
How is it that you people feel you are apt to comment on such a complex issue as learning and attitude formation?
Theres a reason movies have ratings. And its not because kids cry. Developing minds are extremely susceptible to suggestion. Attitudes and emotions are extremely fragile.
There is a concept in behav
Re:I cant believe this DENIAL you guys live in. (Score:3, Insightful)
Whether or not playing a first person shooter is "reliving experiences involving violence and death", in my opinion, up in the air. I don't see how clicking a mouse button and killing a blocky polygonal representation of a human being that is clearly NOT alive and has nothing even barely resembling
Mountains of molehills (Score:5, Interesting)
But one of the things I rarely see mentioned is this - not terribly unlike the JFK consipracy theorists of the world, people who make the bold sweeping claim that video game violence caused things like Columbine do like to hang on to the tiny shreds of evidence that support their theory and ignore the mountains of evidence against it.
The lawyer mentioned in the article has attempted to make a living off of suing video game makers. His Kip Kinkle and Columbine cases were thrown out, so either he's making money either way or he's getting really frustrated right now. In addition to the Beltway Sniper case, he's suing the government over the America's Army game. His mentality is that of a spammer - it doesn't matter how sleazy and slimy what he does is, so long as he gets paid.
And the fact is that all you have to do is bring a picture of a dead kid and a waving finger to Congress and you can get any law in the world you want passed.
But think about it - how many violent kid incidents do you ever hear about? Columbine, Kip Kinkle, those kids in Arkansas, that kid in Flint. That's what, four? And what did they all have in common? Well three of them were white kids shooting white kids (the kid in Flint was a black kid shooting a white kid - significant since the kids were six years old). But what about black kids shooting black kids? It happens all the time, but the news never centers on it. Similarly, when Elizabeth Smart went missing it was Chandra Levy Part II, but the same week a black girl from a poor neighboorhood was kidnapped and no one outside of her state cared.
So the parents groups, mostly white people terrified of this happening to them, use this handful of incidents and blow them out of proportion. The game industry is growing while the overall crime rate is dropping. We haven't had a big school shooting since Columbine. And the biggest retailers (Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop) won't sell M-rated games to minors.
Personally I support not selling M-rated games to minors, but not at the point of law. The movie industry hasn't needed laws to enfore R-rated movies. Do kids still see them? Sure. But they can't just walk in. And consider this - kids can't pirate cigarettes, but if you make it to where kids can't buy M-rated games by law they'll just hit up the newsgroups.
More than just video games... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the problem is that the parents arn't paying attention to the kids at all.
Kid Violence (Score:3, Interesting)
The question that comes to my mind is: Are video games/wrestling/media/etc causing the violence, or are the kids?
Well, that's a no-brainer, kids are committing the acts. I've known many young boys who really look up to WWF wrestlers and immitate violent acts such as those in video games. Not because they want to hurt anybody, but because they want to immitate their idols and what they see. With wresling, the see a guy get a beatdown, and magically get back up, and after the show is over, they walk out of the ring unscathed. With video games, I think it's the player's interaction, coupled with the glamorization of violence that would make some kids want to try it out in real life.
Kids *are* impressionable like that. Which on one hand makes this topic understandable. But what is the media in general supposed to do about it? Make everything sugar-coated and soft for the sake of preventing some deaths? Should the world go on a censor-spree because one kid may pick up a gun and decide to go on a killing spree while exclaiming "I'll bury you in a lunckbox!"?
Every parent wants to blame video games, the gun manufacters, the internet, movies, you name it. It's easier to pass the buck then it is to accept the responsibilty. Oh parents are taking responsibility because they banded together and got a bill passed in to law? How exactly does that help?
"Because just as parents don't want retailers to sell beer or wine to their children or tobacco to our children because it's bad for them, they're saying 'Help us. Don't make this stuff available to our kids.' Parents absolutely do need to take responsibility, but in society today, you and I both know that it's pretty easy for kids to go next door and get hold of something that parents won't allow them to have."
This is understadable as well. Retailers shouldn't be selling alcohol or tobacco to minors, just as gun manufacters shouldn't be selling guns to minors. There are laws to prevent that, and they do help the problem. However, these are things that directly harm children. With video games and the media, they're more passive, so the direct link isn't as clear.
In any case, there's something about American parents not wanting to take responsibility for their children. You shouldn't leave a 2 year old in the care of a 12 year old, period. Or if your child gets a hold of your gun and kills someone, who's at fault, you or the kid?
Most of these cases are directly linked to the parents inability or laziness. It's true, parents can't keep an eye on their kids 24/7, but they can take steps and get more involved in their kids lives. "Let me read the box on that video game", or "what are you watching on tv?" Just don't leave them to do whatever they want. Spend time with them and what they're doing, be their moral conscious and guide while their playing that video game, or cheering their favorite wrestler on.
The more you get involved with what you're kids do, the more you can instill in them what is acceptable in real life, and what is not.
Re:Kid Violence (Score:2)
The question that comes to my mind is: Are video games/wrestling/media/etc causing the violence, or are the kids?
Well, that's a no-brainer, kids are committing the acts. I've kn
Just package it with a real gun (Score:2)
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's only dangerous if 'weird' kids listen to it. Same deal with Dungeons and Dragons, and Ozzy Osbourne. Weird stuff generates paranoia, when there are kids out there who draw pictures of Iraqi's/Saddam getting slaughtered in detail, and their teachers and friends commend them for it, calling them patriots. Kids go around beating the shit out of weaker kids, and the weaker kids go into stuff like D&D, or violent videogames, and suddenly the parents think they're gonna shoot up the school. Perhaps they should try solving the problem at the root. If anything, violent videogames are good, because they help kids vent. I had times in high school where I was pissed off and instead of trying to go and beat the crap out of someone, I would sit down and play Doom or Half life, and bam, all my problems would die down. But does the older generation understand? No... they love demonizing the children's generation so they can take away from their own faults. */rant*
The past 2 or 3 generations (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's go back one generation (relative to me - I'm 24 years old, my father is 53). Many of the people my father knew were in the military fighting in Vietnam (he joined later and was posted in Germany). A good part of society thus experienced and were exposed to REAL violence. Not on
Pass The Law, Shut Them Up (Score:2)
"Empty Pop Tart boxes were found in a search of the killer's apartment. One expert we talked to told us that junk food has been linked to many mass murderers in the past
Social structure is to blame for violence (Score:2)
Even in geekdom, there is too much competition. We all know it: who's the sma
I Agree (Score:2)
Re:I Agree (Score:2)
Might give 'em a taste for senseless plotlines....
Oh...the humanity....
SB