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Classic Games (Games) Puzzle Games (Games) Entertainment Games

Adventure Gaming: Rest In Peace? 139

Posted by Cliff from the kind-sir-do-you-have-a-spare-resurrection-spell dept.
cordsie asks: "I've been doing a bit of research lately on the past and present states of the story-based adventure game market. I'm talking about the old Sierra and Lucasarts games, e.g. King's Quest or Zak McKracken. Generally, (and this is fairly obvious from the titles that have been appearing over the past couple of years), the consensus is that the genre is dead, at least commercially. But there seems to be a bit of disagreement when it comes to the reasons the genre died. Why did the genre die, and is it worth resurrecting?"

"From research in newsgroups and articles on various gaming sites (by no means supposed to be academically exhaustive) it seems to me that there are all sorts of idea and opinions on the subject floating around, most, as you might guess, contradictory. Here are a few examples of the kinds of statement that you can find, some from old time game designers, and others from random punters on newsgroups:

- the technology has simply moved on, and adventure games don't allow for the kind of flashy graphics and big bangs that sell video cards.

- the genre isn't dead, it just evolved. Elements that we loved from adventure gaming have been incorporated into the current genres.

- the games weren't really THAT good, we just remember the effect they had on us with rose coloured lenses. We should remember the good times and let it die. After all, who wants to play 'guess the verb' or 'click every item in your inventory on every other item'? We've moved on.

- they were too linear, and offered too little replay value.

Personally, I cherish the memories and the stories from this era of gaming, and would love to see the genre resurrected."
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Adventure Gaming: Rest In Peace? More

Adventure Gaming: Rest In Peace?

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  • MMORPG's took over (Score:3, Insightful)

    by override11 ( 516715 ) <cpeterson@gts.gaineycorp.com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:11AM (#5851488) Homepage
    Now the same thrill we got killing monsters or solving quests, we can get by killing an opponent that thinks and reasons just as fast as we do. Its a lot more challanging to kill a real person in game then a scripted bot. :)
    • I agree in a way, but the problem with MMORPGs is that the storyline barely exists. You can play days, months, or years knowing absolutely nothing of the backstory. They are all carbon copy advancement engines.

      That's what I miss about adventure games, they had a story to follow. More like an interactive book than a chore.
    • They both have a place.

      Comparing point&click adventures to MMORPG's is not like for like - MMORPG's replace RPG's - Point and Clicks are a different beast

      Crosswords are fun because you pit your wits against the setter.

      Well written point and click adventures are the same

    • Re:MMORPG's took over (Score:4, Insightful)

      by eggstasy ( 458692 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:36AM (#5851602) Journal
      What?
      Since when did adventure games involve killing monsters?
      Adventure games as I recall them were point-and-click interactive stories.
      One could say that they were a direct descendant of the old text-mode Interactive Fiction games, but with graphics and a mouse interface.
      They were based around a plot that progressed through your actions, which usually involved using a few objects somewhere, or with each other.
      Most of them weren't really any good since the actions one was required to perform were completely illogical, leaving you with no other choice but to try every combination of items in your inventory with everything on the screen, brute-force algorithm style.
      On top of that, a lot of crucial items could only be gotten through what is known as "hunt-the-pixel" where there was only one single pixel on the screen representing your crucial item... it was very easy to miss.
      I welcome the death of the adventure game. Though I would love to see a bit more of their quirky humour in modern games, they usually weren't THAT entertaining, but rather frustrating. You would be stuck in the same spot for weeks and would often give up on the game. A lot of games, I could only complete with the advent of the internet and gamefaqs.com!
      Personally, I believe that a solid plot fills the niche wanted by adventure gamers: Games at the time of the glorious VGA resolution were usually divisible into zero-plot repetitive shooters and plot-only adventure games.
      Half-Life and Deus Ex, for instance, are so much better than any old 2d shooter or adventure game, that I find it hard to miss any of them.
      If only game developers would give us more quality, immersive games like those two, instead of the shallow click-fest that is Unreal Tournament and Quake...
      Any game recommendations btw? I havent played a really good game in a loooong time.
      • The classic text-adventure was alive and living on rec.arts.int-fiction [google.com] last I looked. The emphasis has shifted away from puzzles to more artistic writing, I think, but there will always be new ideas that can work within the original zork-style format.

        Shifting the emphasis to graphics has always been risky because 1) it's expensive 2) the author has less artistic control 3) puzzles are harder to implement. And because there's no replay-value, it's just not cost-effective.

        I had great hopes for Chris Craw

      • I like System Shock 2; yeah, it was a a shooter, but it had a decent plot, there was character advancement, sometimes there was more than one way to solve a problem (use your guns, use psionics, or hack into a computer...). I though the environment was well done; I felt like I was in the environment they were trying to convey...

        It was a little short, though; also, it did suffer at times from too much 'running around to find the key to get behind the locked door'. However, it's cheap now (if you can find

    • Yeah but MMORPGs, IMHO suck! The graphics are less then satisfactory. The gameplay (especiall in Everquest) is appauling, and the n00bs always make the biggest impact on the developers so the hardcore fans always feel like they have been slighted. Of course it is a lot more challenging to kill a real person, because I real person can run scripts and hacks to give himself an advantage, then add in the factor of ping. MMORPGs will never be good until the environment is fully customizable by the player populat

  • Genre isn't dead (Score:5, Informative)

    by Peachy ( 21944 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:12AM (#5851494)
    Or at least LucasArts hope it isn't. They've got a sequel to the great Sam & Max + Full Throttle [justadventure.com] adventures.
    • Agreed - I've been hanging for this one. I dusted off my original Sam and Max and played it to the end. Surprisingly it worked with sound and everything in winME, no need for ScummVm. Who says great graphics aren't conducive to the genre? Cell Shading man! I hope that's whats coming for S+M 2!!!

    • Re:Genre isn't dead (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mahdi13 ( 660205 )
      Defiantly not dead. There have been many good-decent adventure games released and more to come (the new S+M is scheduled for Q1 2004).

      Just because these are not getting as much press as Doom 3, doesn't mean they are not being made any more. I'd say the main reason people aren't looking at these very much is because of the horror that was in the mid '90s using FMV (Full Motion Video).
      Now those were bad...and have been burned into reviewers brains forever
      • Speaking of FMV, whatever happened to that ? I remember every stinking PC game in the 90's had FMV sequences. The trend has been perpetuated with consoles and the concept of "Hey we got a 20mb game, let's fill the cd with crap". But on the PC the trend has moved to 3D acceleration for story elements, rather than prerendered bit-hungry stuttering badly lip-synced Bink video. Man I hated Bink.

        This isn't to say real 3D is always better than FMV, just look at Gabriel Knight III for an example of a great se
        • Speaking of FMV, whatever happened to that ? I remember every stinking PC game in the 90's had FMV sequences.
          As you said, everyone got sick of it. It is more immersive to run the cut-scenes using the games engine and more cost-effective to do so also (FMV is expensive)

          Speaking of FMV, whatever happened to that ? I remember every stinking PC game in the 90's had FMV sequences.
          Arrgg! The repressed memories are returning!!!

          But what happened to adventure fusion genres like Alone In The Dark and
    • Apparently they're going to be "Action/Adventure" games, which Full Throttle had some action elements to begin with, but I'm afraid they may end up making them mostly action and very little adventure like they did with the new Indiana Jones games. I'm really looking forward to these games and I hope they don't disappoint me like the Indiana Jones ones did.

      I believe there's still a market for adventure games with young audiences too, not just the nostalgic gamers who grew up on them. I've got my 10 year o

  • Turn on the lights. (Score:5, Funny)

    by user no. 590291 ( 590291 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:17AM (#5851514)
    You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    • Is this wishbringer?
    • Slashdot should be a text adventure game.

      You are on the main page, generated for you by a beowulf cluster of soviet russians.

      There is a troll's keyboard here.
      > GET KEYBOARD
      You are now carrying the troll's keyboard.

      Suddenly, a vicious troll appears and begins throwing flamebait at you!
      > THROW KEYBOARD AT TROLL
      You hit the troll!
      The troll vanishes in a puff of smoke!

      There is a troll's keyboard here.
      > GET KEYBOARD
      You are now carrying the troll's keyboard.
      > NORTH
      You are in a maze of duplicate sto

  • Doesn't allow for the flashy graphics? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by KCardoza ( 593977 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:19AM (#5851523) Homepage
    I'm calling BS on that. Just because no one's thought to make a 3d Sierra-type adventure game, doesn't mean it's not possible. I can see something like a third-person game that used a point-click-menu-select interface, with cinematics, celebrity voice-overs, and one hell of a plot. You could combine free character movement like evercrack or any of the recent Zelda games, with Myst-like puzzles, and don't forget to throw in some action. Oh yeah, and make sure it runs on linux.
    • True. Just because there aren't any pure adventure games with flashy graphic engines doesn't mean it's not feasible.

      Look at Grim Fandango - good (for its time) 3d engine!
    • The last month or two I've been thinking a little about these games, wishing there were some to play. They have an incredible capacity for someone to tell a story like reading a book - controlling and describing the scene. You actively take part. Sure it's linear, but so are books. I love roleplaying games and the freedom, but it's not all there is to enjoy.

    • Re:Doesn't allow for the flashy graphics? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      and don't forget to throw in some action.

      actually, please do forget to throw in some action. while some very short action parts might be acceptable, adding action to the whole game would just make it an action adventure. while they might sell better, they aren't the same as adventures.
    • I agree, adventure games can have flashy graphics. However, sometimes this can limit an adventure game...

      The perfect example, incidentally is a "3d Sierra-type adventure game" called King's Quest: The Mask of Eternity

      The game attempted to combine 3D graphics, RPG elements and adventure gaming all into one but was crippled by a horrible interface and camera controls.

  • I'm playing Wind Waker right now (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cheezus ( 95036 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:19AM (#5851524) Homepage
    Wind Waker changes the control from really really 3rd person to less 3rd person, and there's some (easy) combat, but it's basically the same as kings quest

    solve the puzzle, move on

    use the right item to solve the puzzle, move on

    rinse and repeat

    It's just that the puzzles in the Kings Quest games were often a bit more intellectual than "push the blocks around" (but at the time I was in grade school / jr. high, so maybe I just remember wrong)

    anyway, I'd love another real KQ game (they quit making them after VI), but Zelda has enough of the elements for me
    • Actually, King's Quest VIII came out in 1999. It was called King's Quest VIII: Mask of Eternity. IGN has a review [ign.com].
    • but at the time I was in grade school / jr. high, so maybe I just remember wrong

      No, you're absolutely correct. The current run of games typically have quests that involve one screen...ie, you walk into a room and have to figure out how to get up the staircase by jumping or pushing blocks. There's not a lot of multi screen puzzles unless you count having to retrieve item X in order to solve puzzle A.

      I remember King's Quest and Police Quest...I don't think I EVER got all the points in PQ1. I kept trying
  • Take last year's Syberia [syberia.info] as a prime example - won a lot of awards (was a bit easy if you ask me) - just walk into your local Game (UK) and pick up a copy.

    The problem with the point&click adventures growing into 3D is that no is that one has managed to pull it off quite right yet they are all a bit samey - they fear text on the screen I think and the walk/talk/use type interfaces that are ideally suited to this game type.

    Lets hope the up and coming offerings from LucasArts can reignite the *real* gam

  • Not dead yet (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Galapas ( 155864 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:25AM (#5851552) Homepage Journal
    Don't Resident Evil type games fit into the adventure category? They aren'tqite as simple but you still have your items and your story line to go an play with.

    -G
    • Not really. Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Fatal Frame (awesome game) are classified as "Survival Horror". There are some puzzles you have to solve, but at the end of the day, it's got a significant action component to iet, i.e., your character can die (and will probably die pretty often).
    • I was wondering the same thing.

      When Alone in the Dark came out, it was hailed as a remarkable evolution in the adventure game genre. There are plenty of direct descendants of Alone in the Dark that fit the bill, too - the Resident Evil and Silent Hill series come to mind.

      Granted, they now incorporate fighting monsters, and have given up on the interaction with NPC's, but that's not a very surprising change considering the genre as a whole seems to have shifted over to the console market.
  • Then what about Runaway: A Road Adventure [runaway-game.com] released this week? Runaway is one of the games with the most preorders in a long time..
    And what about Lucasarts releasing sequels to Sam'n'Max and Full Throttle?

  • The third Monkey island near confirmed it's death (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SolubleFrank ( 637562 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:30AM (#5851578)
    ..at least, that's how it was for me.

    Lucasarts didn't bother to even ask creator Ron Gilbert [scummbar.com] if he had any input in Monkey Island 3, since they owned the rights to the games. The result was a quite poor followup to a supurb series which would have hooked in many new gamers to the genre. Lucasarts attempted to continue Gilberts' story and ended up tarnishing the story with countless plotholes.

    New gamers seem to be looking for the violent and flashier games while adventure game lovers look for the trickier and humourous.

  • My take... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Paddyish ( 612430 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:32AM (#5851584)
    I think this change can be seen through the evolution of the King's Quest series. The series had its ups and downs (KQ6=up, KQ7=down), and the final game (KQ8) was more of a 3-d shooter style than adventure, and that trend continued with other games and companies as well.

    I've noticed, however, that games like Splinter Cell incoroporate a lot of the 3-d transferrable characteristics of the adventure genre: Creative thinking, strategy-based playability and a plot.

    I loved true adventure games because of their similarities to a book - a full plot a story which could result in a number of different endings. Text adventures and semi-graphical adventures were of the same caliber, IMHO. In fact, independent developers are still making and porting both of these types, which are easy to find and free to play. Those who seek to make a profit, however, expend their efforts elsewhere.

    I would say that it is the hardware market which drives the software market, and it is this which is at least partially responsible for the decline in further commercial development of the adventure game genre.

  • Duke Nukem Manhattan Project was groundbreaking in its method of presentation. Truely a 3d Sidescroller - and nice to look at. We need an adventure game to utilize the same concepts so that we can satisfy Mr Wizz Bang marketers and 12 yr olds while still bringing elements of story, plot, adventure and humor to videogames.

  • Killed by 3D (Score:2, Interesting)

    by H3g3m0n ( 642800 )
    The adventure games died out when decent 3d hardware accelerated graphics took off. Grim Fandango was probally one of the later adventure games, it had prerendered graphics with 3d characters. Although adventure games have died off many other games are starting to get adventure qualities in them. Think of the diffrence between doom and a modern single player fps shooter.
    • There were two powerhouses in later-day adventure gaming. Sierra and LucasArts. When Sierra was bought out (or when they "sold out" depending on how you look at it), they started their long plunge into mediocrity. Most of the good staff was eliminated (including the two guys from Andromeda), and the emphasis of the company was shifted to distribution rather than development (Does Sierra even make games themselves anymore?). No more adventure titles from Sierra, leaving LucasArts. But, hey, we got Tribe

  • Space Shooters (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:44AM (#5851639) Homepage Journal
    I'm aware of many reasons adventure games have passed on, but I'm not sure which one I want to put stake in. One thing I do know is Space Shooting games like Gradius, RaidenIII, R-TYPE, etc. and why they died. This might provide some insight into gaming genres as a whole.

    Back in the day there were lots of space shooters. 1942 series, ZAXON, Galaga, Galaxian, Space Invaders, Asteroids, Defender. They all fit in somewhere. But around the time of Gradius, Life Force, and definitely by R-TYPE3, Gradius 3, Raptor:COTS the genre had been perfected. There was no more new ways to innovate and make the game better.

    They put more bullets on the screen to dodge. They gave you a wide variety of weapons and defenses. They made really flashy big bosses. They provided environments that were difficult to navigate along with bad guys simultaneously. They did everything to make the games awesome. They had a lot of practice making shooters and they had perfected the art. So the genre died. Every new space shooter had to be perfect. If it wasn't then it was crap compared to the 10 or so perfect shooters. So we get Einhander, G-Darius, and now Ikaruga. There are still new games in the genre, but each one is simply a new perfect game. They each add a new gameplay gimmick to separate them from the rest. G-Darius let you grap enemies and make them join you. Ikaruga has the color change shield thing.

    These aren't bad games. In fact, they are about as good as they can be. This is the problem. Because there is no innovation in the genre nobody is buying the games. Why would I buy spaceshootX if it is the same game as spaceshootY, it only adds new sprites to look at?

    This is the same reason a lot of PC gaming is going downhill and console gaming is really kicking it. The genres which play well on a PC are lacking innovation. The RTS, the FPS, the simulation. All of these haven't seen any major advances. New games just have better graphics and physics. Tribes 2 was the last great advance in fps gameplay, and they fucked it up. Unreal Tournamet 2k3 and Unreal 2 are just more of the same, but shinier. When a genre doesn't innovate it dies. There is no reason to buy a new RTS if the RTS you already have it perfect. This is why Counter-Strike and other Half-Life mods are still #1. Nobody has come up with anything better.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • I think you are missing the point a little bit. It is true what you say about plot. But we aren't talking about books, we're talking about video games. While the plot may change, the user interaction, the game is still the same. I can take an old adventure game engine, and make a new game on it. The plot could be outstanding, the puzzles could be ingenius. But it will still be a game of click on stuff to solve puzzles and progress the plot. While the plot will be revolutionary, perhaps enough to make t
    • I think you've got it dead on. There isn't a whole lot you can add to an above view/side scrolling shooter with modern technology (as a matter of fact, trying to do one in 3d can just complicate things). It's still fun to play 1943 or R-Type. Without the technological advantage, it's hard to beat the best of the best.
    • But the space shooters you describe all suffer, in the long run, from extremely narrow design limitations. Adventure games can, in theory, be endlessly compelling because of the ability to craft a deep story and immersively detailed game world.

      This is why the latest installments of the Unreal series have been underwhelming, IMHO. Unreal Tournament was such a complete rendering of the mutliplayer FPS experience that its followup was practically an expansion pack with a graphics and physics engine update. Th

  • I'm not dead yet! I feel happy! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:45AM (#5851643) Homepage Journal
    While I may not play adventure games, this is the same sort of 'shock' journalism that we always see. Someone says something is dead because it's not as popular as it once was, and two years later, it still is alive, just in it's own niche, as it was before.

    It's like those guys who keep saying puzzle games are dead, despite the fact that puzzle games may actually be the most popular on the planet with their inclusion into cell phones and whatnot.
  • If you check around, there's a wealth of games that don't break the surface of the mainstream, simply because the bean-counters tell people that they won't make much money and so they never get much in the way of advertising money.

    however, if you look at a few of the companies on top, you'll find a good number of quality games, at fairly low prices. right now, I'd say that the up-coming Sam and Max and Full Throttle [justadventure.com] games from Lucasarts are going to generate a lot more publicity within the genre as well

  • My Reaction to Adventure Gaming (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Matrix272 ( 581458 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:47AM (#5851654)
    Way back in the day, I was an avid adventure gamer. I played through all the Police Quest, Space Quest, King's Quest, Leisure Suit Larry, and Monkey Island games... plus any others that I could get my hands on. I still play a lot of games, and that's why I think I'm a pretty good person to ask why I'm not as interested in adventure games anymore.

    First, I don't think the main reason is graphics. In fact, I don't agree with the statement that graphics have moved beyond what adventure games can possibly offer. A couple years ago, an adventure game called the Longest Journey came out. It was a great game with fantastic graphics. It didn't do so well, commerically. Why not?

    Second, I don't think the reason has to do with adventure games being linear. Final Fantasy X was linear, yet it was fantastically successful. Before someone decides to flame me for my opinion of what concepts define whether a game is "linear", I should point out that technically speaking, a linear game only has 1 primary path to its conclusion. Thus, almost every RPG ever made is completely linear, only deviating from the primary path every now and then, and always to return to it. Note: ALMOST every RPG... Morrowind, and games like it, are exceptions.

    I would certainly agree that elements from adventure games are found everywhere. Goal-oriented puzzles are found in many, many types of games, from RPG's (obviously) to FPS's.

    The main reason I don't think adventure games do well anymore is because of our growing expectations. If a game was released in 1991 and sold 100,000 copies, it was considered a resounding success. 10 years later, if a game sells 100,000 copies, it's still a relative success, but since games no longer take only 6 months to create, there's much more of an investment, and $5 million (100,000 x $50) just doesn't go as far as it used to. Keep in mind that Final Fantasy X-2 sold 1.2 million copies in the first week of its release in Japan. 10 years ago, when King's Quest 5 was just coming out (I don't remember the actual year, so don't get all anal on this point), selling 1.2 million copies of any game would be incredible, even throughout the game's entire run.

    It might be me, but lately, I've noticed that most adventure games are based on licenses from TV shows or movies (eg. Law & Order, or CSI). I think it's still pretty safe to say that most games based on movie or TV licenses suck in the most disturbing ways.

    Finally, I would say that adventure gaming isn't dead. It's always had the same number of fans as it always has... but other genres have long surpassed it. I know I enjoyed The Longest Journey, Schizm, Myst 3, The Omega Stone, etc. just as much as I enjoyed Police Quest 3 when it came out. So, in the end, I'd say that adventure gaming isn't dead, it just isn't nearly as popular as a lot of other genres. Why don't we talk about how puzzle games are dead? They don't sell very well either...

  • Blame Myst (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) <{ude.lfu} {ta} {dnaslihp}> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @08:53AM (#5851692) Homepage
    I think that adventure games died because everyone attempted to copy the success of Myst, and, ultimately, the consumer didn't want another Myst. Certainly not the consumers who were providing the base for adventure games. So, to corporate thought, it went "Hey! Myst is the adventure game everyone loves! We should make all our adventure games like Myst!" Followed by "No one likes adventure games anymore, because none of ours sell. Let's stop making them."

    Though the adventure game is arguably alive and well as a niche market now, and it seems to be doing well enough to keep existing as a niche.
    • ...out of the genre. Too much popularity, too fast, not enough game. Non-gamers flocked to it; game companies tried to clone it (incredible graphics on a relatively small number of screens, who needs characters anyway); more interesting projects in the genre couldn't get funding if they couldn't prove they were "the next Myst."

      It's a familiar story. MS sucked the oxygen out of "push technology" with a bad implementation forced on all its OS users, but PointCast was a good idea.

      Then something interesting h
    • I think this has happened with most genres.

      Every two or three years, there's a particularly popular yet unexpected game which becomes massively cloned. Counterstrike (realisticish military gaming), Ultima Online/Simms (MMORPG), Myst (adventure games), Doom (3d mow-em-down games). The followup surge oversaturates the market. There's no *possible* way that the market can support the number of games going into it, competition becomes brutal, and lots of publishers get burned. Consequently, it's really har

  • Missing Out (Score:2, Interesting)

    by nvembar ( 125901 )
    Though I love my NOLF2 and Deus Ex and the like, I'm always on the look out for "pure" adventure games. It's unfortunate that the genre sells relatively badly (excepting the MYST's), since there have been a couple very good ones that have come out using modern graphical tech.

    In particular, The Longest Journey blew my mind -- strong puzzles and, more importantly to me, a well-crafted story. Unfortunately, it got almost no distribution in the US, though you can find it for $20 at BestBuy, CompUSA, etc.

    • I too enjoyed The Longest Journey. It was quite an amazing game. It, however suffered from "lost source syndrome", a disease in which there is a bug in a released game, and the company "lost the source code" to it. See also Ultima 8.

  • It's not just the game industry... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ASPirant ( 139119 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:02AM (#5851747) Homepage
    I personally have a completely different reason why this genre died.

    One of the most important aspects of the games like King's Quest was the user's imagination. Why not type "kick the cat"? It wasn't necessarily the immediate response we enjoyed, it was that the action actually affected the game at a later point in time (remember if you kick the cat, he'll later trip you at the top of the stairs and you die). Sure, it required imagination to come up with some of the statements you had to type, but the programmers showed that they out-thought you most of the time and some of the reactions to your typed statements would make you fall out of your chair laughing. I know I remember doing that several times.

    However, imagination is what is becoming a dying art. Why do games have to *look* more and more real? Because if it looks fake, you have to pretend in your mind that you are *in* the game.

    People don't want to use their imagination anymore. Just look at the movies and TV. It's so much easier to just be forcefed the stuff instead of picturing it in your mind as you read a book or play a game.

    Remember that once we got to King's Quest 5, we were no longer typing phrases in. The game was also looking less cartoony. I personally was disappointed at the new mouse interface because I missed typing in the phrases that got the funny responses.

    In my opinion, the genre died because we're getting too lazy to use our own imagination and the market saw this trend and let the games pass away.
    • In my opinion, the genre died because we're getting too lazy to use our own imagination and the market saw this trend and let the games pass away.

      I'd almost think the opposite: the genre might have been weakened because it wasn't flexible enough.

      To me, it seems that the genre split itself -- those who loved the storyline and excitement of adventure games moved on to other things like Theif and Half-life, which guides them more towards the FPS type game. Those who loved the experimental, imaginative poi

    • While we're flashing back...

      Police Quest was another Sierra great. I remember typing "get naked" or "strip" and you would, then the game would end because you were naked in public.

      Space Quest had to be one of the greatest series ever...Roger Wilco will forever be the perfect imperfect hero. A janitor who keeps saving the universe, wonderful.

      I never could figure out why Sierra moved to the no-typing model of gaming...it was so much more creative to be able to type "fondle woman" than to have to click th

    • In my opinion, the genre died because we're getting too lazy to use our own imagination and the market saw this trend and let the games pass away.

      I think one very significant point, for me at least, in losing interest in adventure gaming is the follow:

      Cut scenes.

      Especially when replaying, or visiting an area you were already in, I hate watching the "5 or 10 second movie" which you've already seen a billion times. Myst had these, like when you went from one location to another on the train tracks.

  • Dead. Unlike the subject. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Draigon ( 172034 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:04AM (#5851764) Homepage
    This is a very old topic. I remember reading "End of Adventure Games?" articles 5 years ago if not more than that.

    I don't think Adventure games would have been as linear as they were to begin with if the technology were there at the time. So I'll agree with one of the opinions you listed. It didn't die, it split apart and exists somewhere in the genres that exist today.

    My opinion really doesn't matter, though, because if this keeps up I'm going to have to say it again in another 5 years.

  • SCUMM! (Score:5, Informative)

    by MrHanky ( 141717 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:07AM (#5851783) Homepage Journal
    The old adventure games aren't dead, they're just getting old. Recently, I played through Day of the Tentacle and Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and started playing Sam & Max. These games are still great fun (although I cheat a lot when I'm stuck, being more impatient now in the future than I was back in the present), and the best thing is you can play them in Linux, FreeBSD or on your old SGI through ScummVM [sourceforge.net].

    I actually portupgraded my laptop (a 133 MHz/40 MB antique) from FreeBSD 4.7 to 4.8 just to get speech in Sam & Max. Those games are such a waste of time!

  • Lets keep saying it, cause it will matter (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quantax ( 12175 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:08AM (#5851789) Homepage
    I swear if I heard 'adventure is dead' again, I'm gonna go into a psychopathic rage of destruction. Yes, adventure games now are nothing like their older counterparts who made up for their so-so graphical ability with indepth stories and interaction within the game. Adventure however is not dead since they are still making games for it. Last year 'Syberia' was a pretty big one, and though I did not think it was anything close to the classics, it was an adventure game and a well made one at that. The Longest Journey which came out in 2000 was another great adventure game, one that surprised many people with its appearance and quality. Again, while this may not be as good as the classics, it was a good game, and well made. Full Throttle 2 is slated for released soon, and I know the makers of Syberia are working on another game.

    No, those who say adventure is dead are either A) not playing the games at all and thus dont know what theyre talking about or B) have such a rigid definition of adventure games they cant accept whats available now. Thats too bad for you, but don't go around saying the horse is dead when we're all still riding it around. Not to mention the HUGE potential for a really good adventure game to be released; the more people who say stuff like this, the more likely the only adventure games you will find in the future will be on ebay or abandonedware. So yes, please lets not get too dramatic here, nothing is dead yet, only on its way.

    • Re:Knee-jerk (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Paddyish ( 612430 )
      This is true. I think when people hear 'adventure game', they think automatically text or 2-d. Obviously, the genre has evolved with the technology. It could quite possibly become huge again, should some developer with good ideas decide to throw all their resources at it.
  • In action games you can cover up a bad or missing story by great graphics and gameplay. Adventure gaes are pretty much entirely about the story, and writing a good one is HARD. Not many people can do it, just like not many can write a good movie script.

    But the real kicker is that even if you write and produce a great one, the market isn't blockbuster-sized, so companies aren't as interested in funding.

    Tim Shaffer (sp?) is about the best writer (Grim Fandango, Full Throttle) and he moved on to his own co
  • Adventure gaming dead? Not at all. Take for example, Neverwinter Nights. It's a classic adventure game.
    • Make a character
    • Go forth and slay things, complete quests, interact with environment and other characters
    • Watch character improve

    Yeah, sure, there are 'big' adventure games like Everquest, Asheron's Call, etc where there is no real story and the adventure is in exploring (or camping). Neverwinter Nights is (IMHO) closer to being true to the genre. There's a story in which you control one of the

    • Re:Far from dead (Score:3, Informative)

      by frenchgates ( 531731 )
      You are talking about a role playing game. It really isn't the genre under discussion.

      In a classic adventure game you don't "make a character", you don't improve your character's stats in the D&D way, and you generally don't slay things by force of arms, you do it instead by puzzle solving.

      There are isolated exceptions to these, but not all together.
      • In answer to your points:
        1) An RPG is an adventure game. An RPG without adventure is rather pointless. Thus it is part of the genre under discussion.
        2) Could you provide an example of what you consider a classic adventure game? Perhaps you were thinking of Myst. I certainly agree that it is an adventure game. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a classic adventure game since there were adventure games galore before Myst came around.
        3) Since slaying things by force of arms is 'not generally' part of adve

        • Re:Far from dead (Score:2, Informative)

          by frenchgates ( 531731 )
          "I'll don my asbestos pants now."
          That won't be necessary.

          Basically Adventure and RPGs share enough in common to sit under the same heading in a game taxonomy, but there are enough differences that that they certainly require their own sub-genre classifications.

          Classic adventure: Zorks, Grim Fandango, etc. NWN may have modules with no combat, but they are certainly not what the game was primarily intended for or the producers would not have spent so much time on the underlying leveling/monster menagerie/c

  • Incorporated (Score:4, Insightful)

    by KDan ( 90353 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:21AM (#5851869) Homepage
    As many have said already, the adventure game genre is not dead at all. Additionally, a lot of features of adventures games have been incorporated inside other genres. For instance, rpg's like Baldur's Gate (or, better, Planescape Torment) have plenty of features which come straight from adventure games. Even some shooters incorporate adventure game features (puzzles, npcs, discussions, etc). I think that far from being dead, the adventure game is ever-present! Nowadays almost every game, no matter its genre, has a bit of adventure gaming sprinkled on top of it, if only to make the bits between the action scenes more interesting.

    Daniel
    • RPGs/FPSs are not and will never be adventure games. I'm sorry, but, when Gordan Freeman shouts out from atop the corpses of dozens of aliens, "I love the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like salt, no, oregano, no, victory!" then we can talk.

      They all treat themselves wayyy to seriously, and while this can be fun, it's not the same spirit. That seperates the two genres, IMO.

  • Evolved (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:25AM (#5851888) Homepage Journal
    Now, take out your hardcore MMORPG. Remove the FPS which is just about killing and more killing.

    What do you have? Resident Evil types. Zelda:WindWaker types. Genre busters (a la the "Theif" series, Deus Ex, System Shock 1&2). Those are all evolved Adventure games.

    And, yes, I was (and still am) a HUGE fan of the adventure genre. Quest for Glory (formerly "Hero's Quest") lured me in, Monkey Island kept me from leaving.

    Seriously, go buy Thief 2, System Shock 2, or Deus Ex. Yes, they are a First Person perspective, but they are very much an adventure genre.
    • ---Seriously, go buy Thief 2, System Shock 2, or Deus Ex. Yes, they are a First Person perspective, but they are very much an adventure genre.
      ---

      Yup! I just played Deus Ex a few months ago, and the adventure (and RPG) elements of it really r0x0r! I can't wait for for Deus Ex 2!
      • If you like Deus Ex, go to your local eb, fork over $5, and buy a copy of System Shock 2. Its the same 'style', just a different story (and its an older game, but also was made by warren spector). Basically, you can choose between 3 professions, and give attributes out, just like Deus Ex, but its a much spookier game (well, it starts getting freaky after the third or so board).

        Every person that enjoyed Deus Ex I suggest buying System Shock 2 and they like SS2 better! Go check it out!

        In fact, I'm chan
    • Why no unevolved games, though?

      I mean, you *can* do a lot with new technology, and yes, we tend to view old games with a rosy tint of nostalgia. However, I *liked* 2d side-scrolling or top-scrolling shooters. Those just plain aren't being made any more. 3d hardware can do wonders for 2d games -- take a look at Chromium B.S.U. Imagine something similar for an X-Box or similar...
      • I think it comes down to sell-ability.

        Within a month, I could make a 2d sidescroller and release it for free. If you put down a full team of developers, and make one incredible, you wouldn't be able to recover from all the costs, because most people would opt for the free game, instead (and if its open source, the game, itself, would improve constantly).

  • The Longest Journey (Score:4, Informative)

    by DavidLeblond ( 267211 ) <meNO@SPAMdavidleblond.com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @09:28AM (#5851901) Homepage
    One of my favorite games of all time, The Longest Journey, has just announced they are working on at least one, maybe two more games in the series. It seems to me that this whole "adventure games are dead" stuff started when Sierra got bought out and stopped making adventure games. But companies like Revolution are still going strong, and now are trying to get adventure games out to the consoles.

    I don't think the genre will ever be truely "dead".
  • I think the typical, pure adventure game genre died out because pure adventure games were boring.

    All you did in them was read text, click some action icons and click on objects/characters on the screen to interact with them.

    The actual "game" part of adventure games was usually pish.

    What was good about adventure games then? The story (and all the elements of it, such as the characters)!

    Can only pure adventure games have that? Well, apparently years ago most game developers though so, but of course that's

  • Not dead (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Lomby ( 147071 )
    The adventure games are almost dead, but they also evolved. Take the Shen Mue [shenmue.com] saga. The Shen Mue games are adventure games, moved to 3D graphics the right way, not like the Lucasarts failures such as Monkey 4 (crap all around) and Grim Fandango (good story, but crappy control).
    In Shen Mue there is a great story, lot of objects, lot of people, lot of interaction. I think that if the real adventure creators (Steve Purcell/Ron Gilbert) had worked with current hardware, they would have created something similar
  • Game makers have been rushing to make everything 3D and support directx9 opengl and the fancy nvidia, ati extensions. Companies are no longer focusing on the storyline and art so much.

    Even lucasarts were'nt immune to this. Remember what they did to monkey island?? Monkey Island 3 was a big success, at least for an adventure game, but then there was the obscene monkey island 4, made in 3d, dysfunctional and uninteresting.

    I occasionally play sonic2, wonderboy and some atari, commodore64 games. Theres n

  • You are in a maze of twisty little corridors, all of which look alike.

    My monocle! I've lost my monocle! If I don't find it soon, I'll lose all the monocle-grabbing muscles in my eye!!!!

    Would you like to buy a shuba?

    "Over my dead body!" "Preference noted..."

    Use the rubber chicken with the pulley in the middle...

    Zkull.

    Play humbug with octopus.

    Take filofax from Viking.

    Lie down in front of bulldozer.

    The code phrase is, "say alexis."

    You have been bitten by chiggers. If you don't stop the itc

    • > You are in a maze ...

      Zork.

      > My monocle! I've lost my monocle! ...

      It seems familiar ... I remember a monocle puzzle in Monkey Island 2 ... But I don't remember this specific phrase, so that's probably not the reference.

      > Would you like to buy a shuba?

      Below the Root.

      (Extra credit, people: Who actually read the books once they finished that game? Who read them before the game existed?)

      > Use the rubber chicken

      Monkey Island.

      > Lie down in front of bulldozer.

      Hitchhiker's Guide to the Gal
      • > Give comfit to Dodo.

        I know that one, and don't know why either.

        That's from another great Windham Classic ... Alice in Wonderland. That and Below the Root were really quite great games (:

        And yes, I did read Below the Root after playing the game, and try from time to time to actually find a copy to buy (; I only read the first in the series, wasn't it a trilogy?
      • Zkull was a QL Sinclair game. THe monocle reference was monkey island, the part where he'd cry that he was going to be left there cooold hungrryyyyy and alooooone...

        the Viking filofax and the humbug/octopus reference are both from a more recent basic text adventure called Humbug.

        The chiggers are from an atari (128, i think) cartridge game where you had to kill a vampire. Everytime you entered the swamp, you got bitten by chiggers.

        The kill goblin but comes from the Palm OS game, oh, what's it called no

  • For proof of what "modern" adventure games would be check out Gabriel Knight 3 or Starship Titanic.

    Gabriel Knight 3 is, in my opinion, the greatest adventure game ever. The graphics are beautiful, the voice acting is excellent (led by Tim Curry as Gabriel Knight), and the story is amazing. I need more adjectives, this game is that great. It is proof that you can take a Sierra adventure game into a 3d environment and have it work extremely well. It ended with a whole setup for GK4, but unfortunately I doubt
  • In a weird twisted way kinda reminds me of Police Quest adventure games. Except you can go and shoot anyone you want, and the game is a far bigger sandbox than Police Quest ever was.

    Personally, I would love to see this merge between the sandbox nature of GTA and the adventure gaming style of PQ or KQ or any of the series. That would be way way way too fun. (IMHO)
  • Every year we get someone pontificating on the death of adventure games. It really gets tiresome. If only we could get some 'FACT: Adventure games are dying' trolls to liven things up...but they seem to all be scared away by the color scheme here.

    Anyways, adventure games aren't dying. Text adventure games may be dead (commercially), but they live on thanks to the goodly number of tools that people can use to make their own (the most widely known being the Z-machine, which has interpreters [ifarchive.org] on just abou
  • Grand Theft Auto is sort of an Adventure game. You complete quests, gain weapons, build your running skills, etc.

  • Syberia (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kknm_fixxxer ( 598195 )
    Go and play Syberia [syberia.info] from Microids. Or their newer game, Post Mortem [postmortem-videogame.com]. If the adventure genre is dead, they are doing a great job at resurrecting it and I wish them best of luck.
    I nearly cried at the ending of Syberia, the story was great and graphics beautiful.
    Speaking of graphics, the technology behind Syberia is nothing like Doom III, but it incorporated 3D for character animation (even let you turn antialiasing on). Post Mortem is a bit of a step forward graphics-wise, but just wait for Syberia 2:
    • Dy
  • When someone mentions "Adventure Games" I still think of text adventures like the old Infocom games. I played games like Calixto Island on my TRS-80 CoCo that were still text adventure games but had graphics to illustrate the story. I didn't really appreciate the new fully graphical adventure games from outfits like Sierra On-Line where you didn't have to type anymore--I still like the old art of text adventures. That art, called Interactive Fiction, is exploding and every year there is a competition.

    I
  • The quest for glory series would be easily ressurectable into 3d. The integrated RPG/adventure model was spectacular. It would be sorta zeldish, but with different hero classes and not leveling up abilities, but character build up stats (intelligence, strength, etc...) They already incorporated semi 3d combat into the game, this could be seemlessly done now.

  • The article simplifies a very complex issue... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I am an avid adventure game fan. I have been playing adventure games and loving them as long as I can remember. My first computer games I played and loved were adventure games: Below the Root (if that counts), Adventure, Zork, King's Quest, Space Quest, Monkey Island, and so forth and so on.

    I have lots of reactions to what is implied and asked by this story:

    Most importantly, it has to be emphasized that adventure games are not dead. The original submitter was careful to note not dead "commercially", but t
  • I asked myself the same question a few weeks ago. So I asked Google about my favorite oldies and their hypothetic new versions, and I found this :

    the Zak McKracken 2 project [zak2.org]
    Zak McKracken and the Alien Rockstars [zak2project.de]
    Simon the Sorcerer and the whole magic door [sts-twmd.com]

    And many many other links (most of them are here [zak2project.de])

    It seems that the Adventure Games Community is still alive, and producing quality remakes of the old games we played many years ago :)

  • Flight Sims Are Dead (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nick_davison ( 217681 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @11:33AM (#5852821)
    Go back about two years and you magazines regularly ran articles saying, "Flight Sims Are Dead".

    Sure, you could find a few examples like Microsoft Flight Sim but they were dismissed and the genre was considered dead. Then the stunning IL2 came out, Combat Flight Sim 3, B17, Project One and a whole slew of others while Lawrence Holland, one of the biggest names in the classic era of PC flight sims is coming out with another in the Secret Weapons line.

    Basically, the genre was in hibernation until several different sources came up with new tricks and new technologies to exploit and then, once there was something new to offer, it was back with a vengence.

    Currently, adventure games are considered dead. There are examples of the genre that are still getting rave reviews such as American McGee's Strawberry... uh, I mean Alice, Syberia, Anacronox (or whatever it was called), etc. but they, just like the examples with flight sims before them, are getting dismissed.

    Go in to other fields entirely... Guitar was "dead" during the dance music era, guitar soloing was "dead" a couple of years ago. Yet it all strangely comes back as soon as a couple of inovators coincide at the same time.

    Declaring a game (or indeed any) genre dead generally proves one of two things:

    1) You're a magazine after a sensational article title.

    2) You've just not been in the field long enough to recognise a cycle when it hits you.

    Adventure games may currently be in hibernation but they'll almost certainly return. Maybe it'll be through realtime Myst style graphics on modern cards (look at Links now compared to what it was like 10 years ago). Maybe it'll be in an FPS engine - ultimately, other than Counterstrike, what's made Halflife so popular is that fact it was the most Adventure Game like FPS out there and still is. Maybe, with the capacity of DVDs, someone'll figure out how to make the old CD-ROM interactive movies in to something that's actually any good. Maybe it'll be a new approach entirely. It'll almost certainly be a combination of several. However it happens though, it almost certainly will happen.

    Then they can start writing about the Post Doom III death of the FPS genre or whatever it may be.
    • Declaring a game (or indeed any) genre dead generally proves one of two things:

      1) You're a magazine after a sensational article title.

      Speaking of which, isn't it time to declare Apple dead? ;)

      • Speaking of which, isn't it time to declare Apple dead? ;)

        They died a good half a decade ago, back before they released the iMac and iPod, G4s and OS-X, when they were so screwed Microsoft was giving them money to keep going just so it couldn't be acused of being a monopoly.

        Geez! Don't you read the magazines!?!
  • For myself and several of my friends, the death of the point-n-click adventure genre came just after King's Quest 4: The Perils of Rosella. Honestly, the puzzles weren't puzzles in any sense. They were just examples of "do some random thing and hope it's the same random thing the programmers thought of."

    An example: You need a plank of wood to cross a (very shallow) area. A frog is blocking your way. Get the shiny ball hidden underneath the bridge two screens back, then throw it at the frog.

    Honestly, d
  • They just live on in the forms of other games, merged with other genres, to make new experiences.

    Take a look at the Resident Evil series, many RPGs, and several other games that borrow heavily from the adventure gaming style. Many borrow heavily from Adventure Games, just as other games borrow aspects from them.

    I think I've heard "I have decided this game genre is extinct!" a few too many times now. You really aren't looking close enough, or really understanding the way that games work and evolve to be
  • adventure games aren't dead.

    You're saying Zelda isn't an adventure game? It sold almost 1 million copies last month.
  • What about the new Zeldas? Hell, Mario too. Just because you can stab things, jump, and roll around doesn't make it not an adventure game. The new ones play just like old adventure game in how you have to think and solve problems (even if the solution is often to shoot it with an arrow).

    I like the old adventure games (Space Quest era) more then almost any games, but now you can combine adventure and real time action, and it works pretty damn well.
  • What I've found frustrating is the lack of adventure games available for Linux. TuxGames offers a number of strategy and FPS games but only a few adventure games. On the surface this makes sense, strategy and FPS (along with RPGs) are the best selling genre of computer games.

    But I wonder if the Linux gaming market isn't somewhat different than the Windows gaming market. Many of the people who run Linux are older professionals. We're often not runnng the latest and greatest equipment. Perhaps one expla
    • What I've found frustrating is the lack of adventure games available for Linux

      Really? I've found that adventure game support for Linux is actually quite good relative to other genres.

      There's an entire commercial seven-episode line in the LadyStar [ladystar.net] series.

      Hopkins FBI [hopkinsfbi.com] was, I believe, the first commercial SDL-using game available for Linux.

      Want to play older adventure games in Linux? ScummVM [sourceforge.net] can run older Lucasarts adventure games. AGIL [za.net] lets you play old AGI Sierra games, and FreeSCI [linuxgames.com] old SCI Sierra game
  • It is really expensive to produce a rich adventure game in 3D (and you can't sell a 2D game anymore). Creating environments and characters like those of King's Quest for real-time 3D is just hard. In contrast, driving a game by combat lets you deemphasize the environment and squeeze a lot more game time out of a few hallways filled with the same crate model. I think Deus Ex was a pretty good adventure game/RPG, but it was heavily combat driven. Making a non-combat interaction game with 100 hours of play

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