Profile of a Hard-Core Gamer

brettlbecker writes "The NYTimes is running a story on Richard L. Stenlund, or, as players of MMORPG Anarchy Online undoubtedly know him, Thedeacon. Quote from the article: "Thedeacon is a celebrity. Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television." Infamy, perversion, bankruptcy, virtual protests, online counseling. How much do *you* accomplish in 7 hours a day?"

who's to say?

[sweeney37]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer [nytimes.com], and an addict [cbsnews.com]? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

Mike

(ps, the nytimes link is the google link)

Re:who's to say?

[TopShelf]

As in most things, it's all defined by hindsight. If the guy ends up whacking himself or others, he's an addict. If other pencil-necked geeks (RIP, Freddie Blassie!) still look up to him, he's "hardcore."

from the article

[nounderscores]

They don't get out much. That is partly a result of the couple's dim finances, but also a result of Mr. Stenlund's dim view of humanity. "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

[...]

"No money," Ms. Werner-Stenlund recalled. "Nowhere to go. Nothing to do. We were being threatened to be sued left and right, and I think we were both on the verge of swallowing a bottle of pills."

With the walls closing in, the Stenlunds fled

Re:from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

I play Anarchy Online, and Thedeacon is a dick in game. I'm surprised that an article was written about him rather than a guild leader.

The only reason that his org Storm [anarchy-online.com] is so powerful is because it has 503 members who try to level as fast as possible, then they complain when they reach the top level and have nothing to do. Hence the:

For more than a year, Meta-Physicist players have lobbied Funcom to enhance their profession, widely considered the weakest in the game. Frightened by the prospect that Meta-Physicists would continue to be left behind, Thedeacon spent two weeks organizing a protest march, held last weekend.

Welcome to a MMOG, I guess.

Re:from the article ... not quite what it seems

[Frizzled]

Actually the person featured in the article has a few things to say:

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

Read for yourself here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 11d03b3f2a2d89b880b547768512bc25&threadid=1434 07 [anarchy-online.com]
(about seven posts down)

_f

Re:who's to say?

[Transient0]

There are three popular and accepted definitions of an addict. The first is that they pursue their habit to the point where it has a strong negative impact on the rest of their life. The second is that if the person tries, in all earnestness, to give up the activity and finds themselves unable, they are an addict. The third is that they experience significant and measurable withdrawal symptoms when denied the substance or activity.

Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts). I should point out now that current psychology and medicine have given up on the distinction between physical and psychological addiction. There is no measurable difference between the two. Even activities such as computer gaming which are non-invasive promote distinct electrical and chemical activities in the brain which can be as strong a basis for addiction as anything.

In answer to your question, I would be pretty sure that anyone who describes themselves as a "hard-core gamer" probably is an addict in the medical sense. In common parlance however, we don't tend to call people addicts to accepted forms of entertainment unless they also fulfill the first requirement. So the actual answer (as addict is commonly used by non-medical people) is that the difference between a hard-core gamer and a gaming addict is that the addicts gaming has a negative impact on his life as a whole (failing school, losing their job, poor eating habits) whereas the hard-core gamer is still relatively well adjusted.

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

Intrestingly enough the terms 'hard-core drinker' and 'alcohol addict' (or 'alcoholic', as we usually refer to alcohol addicts) are nearly synonymous. The term addict in common parlance largely depends on the taboos of the culture it seems. Someone who is into 'hard-core pr0n' is often called a 'sex addict.' But a 'hard-core coder' is almost never called a 'workaholic' or a 'work addict' because our largely Puritanical society defines 'hard-core work' to be a Good Thing(tm), while 'hard-core sex' is a Bad Thing(tm). Whether 'hard-core gaming' is a Bad Thing(tm) or not probably depends largely on who you talk to. In the Slashdot crowd, this would be a revered quality, but in the Soccer Mom crowd, this would probably be looked upon negatively.

Re:who's to say?

[Deusy]

I'd vehemently disagree with this. There is a clear distinction between a hardcore drinker and an alcoholic.

Somebody who is only a hardcore drinker is somebody who can drink a lot over a short period and not suffer severe effects. I have a few friends who will binge drink over 4-5 days and come out of that period in reasonable condition. But after that period they will return to a relatively alcohol free lifestyle.

An alcoholic, an addict, may also show the qualities of a hardcore drinker. But an alcoholic has become emtionally/physically/somehow dependent on alcohol and is unable to resist the urges and stop after any period of drinking. They will wake up and drink til they sleep until they get help breaking that addiction.

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

Don't try to argue with the zealots. They'll only say you're in denial and then pray to their higher power that you someday see the light.

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

"Puritanical"?

Me thinks someone has some resentment for people daring to judge others...

I was merely speaking factually. The U.S. was founded -- in large part -- by Puritans who left England to be free to practice their way of life, which was largely in conflict with the Anglican church.

The values of these Puritans -- which are describe to be "Puritanical" -- had a large impact on the culture of the United States. There were taboos about sex and modesty which are largely nonexistant in most European countries. In Europe it is commonplace to find nudity and even sex on what they refer to as the 'telly'. Here, however, nudity on TV, particularly during certain hours of the day, is considered a violation of FCC rules. This stems from our cultural taboos about sex, which were largely inherited from those early Puritans.

Hard work, on the other hand, is largely revered for the same reason. One main concept of Puritan philosophy is that 'idle hands (or idle mind) are the playground of the Devil.' One was to work all day, and rest only for short periods to avoid being tempted by Satan. This attitude also had a large influence on our culture in the U.S. and is largely responsible for our capitalistic society which reveres hard work, and shuns those who avoid it.

It has nothing to do with resentment of any kind.

Re:who's to say?

[Hard_Code]

Yeah, depiction of violence is free speech. But cursing and nudity? OMIGOD! Censor it!

Re:who's to say?

[mark2003]

The puritans were teetotal.

The reason the people involved in the revolution (that you hear about) drank was because they generally were proper, boozy Brits who just happened to want to pay less tax, not your religious puritan wusses.

I always find it ironic that the puritans left England fleeing religious persecution when the reason they were so disliked by everyone was because they spent their whole time criticising everyone else for not being religious enough. If they had had any power they would have burnt everyone in England as witches - rather like their wonderfully enlightened behaviour in Salem etc. It's rather like the Taleban fleeing the religious persecution of a secular state.

Re:who's to say?

[aminorex]

That's a very astute comparison. The taliban
were mostly pakistani seminary students who fled
an autocratic military regime (pakistan) to form
a society based on conscience and shared values
in a wilderness (afghanistan). The puritans were
mostly english religious protestants who fled an
autocratic military regime (england) to form a
society based on conscience and shared values
in a wildnerness (new england).

Addictions

[Mr2cents]

I always wanted to know hom many people are addicted to something. In my opinion, most people are addicted to one thing or another, let it be work, games or drugs. Personally, I stick to Wolfenstein and marihuana :).

How do functional addicts fit in?

[swb]

There are also a class of people considered "functional addicts" -- I'm only familiar with the subject in the realm of substance (ab)use, but the idea is that these are people who consume large amounts of a substance but yet do not have disrupted social lives or immediate health problems -- they hold (often prestigious, well-paid) jobs, have families, friends and all the other trappings of a normal life.

I remember reading a NYT or other magazine article a few years ago on white collar heroin addicts who fi

Re:who's to say?

[Restil]

I found myself consumed in Ultima Online for the first 6 months is was available, played it a minimum of 8 hours a day and for the last few months, I found myself absolutely hating the game, and it most certainly had a negative influence on my life. For all practical purposes, I would consider myself addicted. I would spend all day at work dreaming, thinking, planning, or researching the game so when I finally got home I could play more efficiently, etc. I couldn't wait to get out of there. That game wa

Re:so I'm addicted to:

[Surak]

Did you even read the second paragraph of Transient0's post?

Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts).

That would *exclude* air, water, food, caffeine, and probably UN*X as well. ;)

Re:who's to say?

[Stargoat]

Gaming Addicts? That's ridiculous. The only difference between games and television is the level of interaction.

It is simply easy for someone to blame someone else, rather than looking closer at home. If there is trouble, blame someone else. Let's blame Marilyn Manson [rollingstone.com], South Park (Canada!) [capalert.com], or Games [cbsnews.com].

Re: who's to say?

[dave_mcmillen]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

Or, indeed, how are we to distinguish between a hardcore gamer and a dropout? Because that's what the article says to me about this guy: he just wants to drop out of society. In another decade, he might have moved to a commune and taken a lot of drugs. Instead, he spends all of his time in a simulated world, with much the same effect: he's effectively withdrawn from society. Fair enough, but we should bear in mind that this is not representative of the vast majority of gamers, in terms of either their behaviour or their motivations for playing games.

It surprises the hell out of me that he's married.

Re: who's to say?

[Lemmy Caution]

Here's the rub - he's aware that he needs to focus on his financial well-being; he admits that they need a better income, yet he plays constantly. He's wasting time that could be better spent improving his income position.

Why?

It's obvious why, on a psychological level. He's a computer hardware tech without a college degree and minimal social skills - nothing could be less comfortable for him than going out and finding a job, humbling himself dozens of times in interviews and probably having to settle for a rank-and-file position that doesn't pay that much. In the real world, he can't command a lot of status and he knows it.

On Anarchy Online, he is an eminence grise. He has the respect and admiration of hundreds.

People (in the initial stages, especially) pursue addictions because of some reward-structure involved, and the reward structure here is completely transparent. He gets a lot more positive feedback in AO than he does elsewhere. He's cathected his normal need for social validation into a domain where he has disprortionate success. I would probably do the same in his shoes: I have an ex-girlfriend who did, too. It's lucky for him he has a wife and an internal compass that keeps him realistic (the "move to Las Vegas" plan might actually not be a bad one) and I hope for the best for him.

I'm not that surprised he's married, though. He seems likeable and thoughtful and reasonably self-aware.

Who's to say Virtual isn't real or is Bad....

[Almandris]

.. when you are dealing with real people.

With the advent of MMORPG, and On-Line gamming in general, there is another consideration for everyone who is talking about games. The definition of community. This article touches on the fact that the person as the character still interacts with real people and talks to them. This is not the fact that they physically interact, but the whole interaction of a community and communication.

We are talking about the change of a "Real" society to a "Virtual" society. In both cases you are interacting with real people. You talk to them ,you have to deal with them and in most cases you do things with them. The only difference is the mode of interaction. Instead of sitting down at a table talking to each other and playing a game of cards, game of chess, family or group game; you are individually sitting down at computers talking to each other, playing a computer game, any MMORPG or community based On-Line game. If you never interact with anyone while doing this then there is a difference, but the whole community interaction is almost exactly the same. You can make friends with people or learn that you really are not friends with someone when you are talking to them over a card table or over a computer connection. Are the situations identical... NO, but they are similar in the aspects of interaction... the major difference being what can happen physically. Both interactions can involve personal or intellectual content and can increase your personal "growth" if they are productive. There are a lot of "unproductive" conversations that happen every day that will never matter the next day regardless if your at a card table, at your computer or at your local bar.

Lots of hobbies that people have are just to give someone something to do.... some of them are self gratifying some are just to "waste time" and some 'might' be used in the future. I actually look at computer games as a hobby of mine... sometimes I spend a lot of time on them and sometimes I don't. Minus the personal interaction, the people I know from around the world and the country, there is a lot of things that will not help me with my day to day activities, but I can tell you that interacting with people is a lot easier on-line than in IRL and interacting with people on-line has helped me with interacting with people IRL. I have seen people work through problems talking on-line as well as IRL, both ways its mental change.

With the introduction of the internet to the world the whole definition of community has changed, or multiple definitions are being created, and I personally see a lot of people just really don't like that or don't want to deal with it. Some benefit from it and some donâ(TM)t. Real life is that way also. I see little difference in the end.

Speaking from experience ...

[Ordieth33]

I've been in the genre, so to speak, for my fair share of time. I've been playing computer games since I was five. I taught myself to read playing Dragon Warrior and how to count by adding up my coins in Mario. As far as online games go, I've played them since their birth. I've been around in some form in The Realm, M59, UO, EQ, AO (left AC and AC2 alone ... won't buy a M$ game, sorry) and I'm currently devoting my time to Shadowbane where I run the guild Requiem. I'll be the first to admit, addiction is a *serious* issue with online games. Thankfully I have a strong grip on reality thanks to a very large social network of friends who do *not* play these games. If I've been on the computer too long they usually come to my house and kidnap me. =) However, I've been there for those 8 hour days of clearing Plane of Fear, it happens. But before you start hurling insults (especially those of you who merely troll Slashdot for 8 hours a day!!!) not everyone who devotes a lot of time to an online game are addicts or pathetic. I'll give you that there are a lot of emotionally unstable people who should not be playing these games (and they are fairly easy to spot within the games) yet I'll share with you my experience when I was playing a lot. When I was 15 I found out I had a severe case of scoliosis. They tried bracing me for over a year with no helpful effects, in fact my condition got worse. By the time I was 17 I had a 59 degree curve in my lower back and a 53 degree curve in my upper back with a 39 degree curve right at my neck. Let me assure you, this was not a pleasant experience. Surgury was the only option I had left. I was left with close to zero flexibility in my back as 90% of my vertibre are now fused together and braced by 2 titanium rods. Not to mention I was wheelchaired for 3 months and extremely weak for an entire year. I did my school work from home, but usually finished it quickly with no problem (public high school is unfortunately a joke.) This left me with a lot of time to either dull my mind watching TV, or playing with my computer. Everquest was my only outlet for meaningful social interaction, especially in the early hours of the morning while all of my "real" friends were sleeping. But I wasn't sleeping, when you can't most of your back, you don't sleep well. My character, Ordieth Lightblade, was at times a popular character. So I understand why these people play these games. Before you judge, consider that many of these "powergamers" usually fall into a few categories. 1.) Minors - I'd say the majority of power gamers are between the ages of 12-17. Yes, many many many 12 year olds play these games, sometimes with their parents. Frankly, it only takes the intelligence of a 12 year old to play EQ. Most of these kids (I was one of them, started EQ when I was 16) don't have jobs, and are not in school all that much, don't have cars, etc. Therefore they have plenty of time. 2.) Disabled/Unemployed - I'm always amazed when I start talking to people in EQ/SB at the number of unemployed people that play simply because they are either too depressed to keep looking for another crappy job or they know they can squeak out another 6 months on unemployment pay. =) As for us disabled, most are too ashamed to admit it, but there is a large group of paralyzed, impaired, deaf/dumb, etc players. Of course those of us with disabilites will be drawn to a fantasy world where everyone is the same. Everyone can talk, walk, run, be the hero, etc. I know EQ helped me during my hardest times. 3.) True Addicts: I've also met a few of these. I suppose these should almost go under disabilities, mental ones to be precise. Most of the people I find that are totally addicted are this way due to some sort of mental fixation. Where as the people in the above categories were playing for social/pass the time reasons, these people play because they have either passed out of reality into fantasy and believe this is their life, or they simply cannot function without it anymore. I m

Re:who's to say?

[feepness]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

It's obvious! Everquest kills, Anarchy Online heals.

i know how he feels!

[Horny Smurf]

"excellent" karma, but that doesn't impress girls in the "real" world.

I bet you haven't even tried!

[Greyfox]

Have you ever taken a seat next to a beautiful woman in a bar and said "Hey, Baby, my slashdot karma is excellent, mostly the result of moderations to my posts!"

It could be the start of something beautiful. Be sure to let us know where you plan to try it so we can all be there to watch.

Hey...

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

I once successfully hit on a girl by talking about 8-bit Nintendo games and Autechre.

Re:Hey...

[the_consumer]

Are you sure you don't have a looser definition of "girl" than the rest of us? ;)

People suck

[kaltkalt]

"The more you deal with people, the more you hate people" ... ain't that the truth?

Google. Blah.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/12/technology/circu its/12play.html?ex=1055995200&en=2146e82adce8b0ea& ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

hehe

[CheechBG]

trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television.

wow, so they pretty much summed up Comic Book Guy, now who is this guy again?

/I got nothin' :)

If I did this I would be wealthy too

[teamhasnoi]

Productivity [nytimes.com] went up by 56% after I installed the iLoo.

Geez, no wonder the guy is lv 200, and rich in the game. It looks like he's trying to 'lay an egg' right now.

Apparently, some people *can* mix their 'buisiness' with pleasure.

Is it surprising?

[foxtrot]

After all, this is much of the draw of an online community such as an MMORPG-- it doesn't matter if you're from Podunk, where there's not even a stoplight and you know all hundred people in town, or if you live in the great metropolis where you don't even know the name of the looney across the hall. You can step out of the world you live in and into one of your own choosing.

Should we be surprised if this is a little addictive? Should we be surprised if people want to spend more time in the world they want to instead of the world they're forced to?

-JDF

certainly shouldn't be

[ed.han]

foxtrot's right, of course. good graphics, fat pipe, and you're ready to roll.

however, i think a better question is: is this a good thing? i mean, if you do have to deal w/ the reality of working--on which topic the article is vague--what else is going on in your life? see RL friends? go and do stuff? i gotta admit, i was pretty surprised to learn that he's still married.

me, i've been deliberately avoiding OL gaming specifically b/c i fear the addictiveness. good thing for me i can claim slow dial-u

You have a false notion of Podunk

[CrazyJim0]

Most people in small towns don't know each other. They only yell at their neighbor for doing anything to their yard.

You step out of your house in a Podunk town, and you don't even have a sidewalk, so you need money just to go anywhere in your car.

Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[djembe2k]

<RANT>

Middle of nowhere? Middle of nowhere???!!!

This guy lives in Madison, Wisconsin, one of the coolest places in the world to live (speaking as somebody who moved my family just so I could be in Madison). We have 200,000 people, the state capital, one of the largest universities in the country, museums, restaurants, music, malls, traffic (sort of), sprawl (a little bit), more community and more to do than anywhere I ever lived in east cost suburbia.

Say what you want about gaming or anything else, but please stop making a big deal (all of you!) about a throw-away line about "too far from big cities", to conclude that this guy lives on 40 acres in the middle of rural South Dakota. Geez!

</RANT>

OK, South Dakotans who want to respond, feel free to rant on.

That's really sad and pathetic...

[FortKnox]

I'm not gonna play a video game for weeks now...

Moderation is a good thing.

Moderation is a good thing.

[mekkab]

Except on slashdot.

[RIM-SHOT!]

Hardcore Gamer?

[Kozz]

Look no further.

This is a true hardcore gamer [thefruitcake.com].

Consider the source...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the New York Times. I'll wait until a reputable newspaper writes about it without all the we're-summing-up-the-trend-so-you-don't-have-to verbage.

They had gamers like these in the 80s...

[Azadre]

... but their addiction consisted of cocaine and not video games. In ten years, caffine will be the thing gamers become addicted to! "I don't want to play Doom IV again, but why not - I haaave the POOOOOWEER!"

How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[DrJohnnie]

about 15 minutes of actual work....

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[Naikrovek]

heh.

my brother is an everquest addict. in 7 hours of any day of the week, he completes about 1/2 of his everquest time for that day.

he complains about having no income, yet spends $100/week on drugs, $50/week on cigarettes, and about $20/week on alcohol. There is no income stream to support this, either.

It is no wonder this guy profiled has no money. he doesn't work! not hard enough, anyway. owning your own business is not a 9-5 job, and you'll fail if you make it a 9-5 job. buying this game has on

Pervert???

[petronivs]

Great, now everyone in Madison is going to know that even his wife thinks that he's a perv...

A lvl 200 character...

[BobRooney]

and a buck-fifty buys you a cup of coffee.

I'm a fan of the MMORPG genre, but while it does provide a nice, temporary escape from mundane every-day life, in the end it IS truly a virtual (read, not real) world. Games like Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, AO, UO, etc. are great ways to kill some time and be relatively sociable at the same time, but if you took the average gamer's log of online gaming hours and re-invested those same hours in something like The University of Pheonix Online, they would have a Ph. D or two by now. It's easy to lose sight if reality, particularly when reality isn't too pleasant. Unfortunately we all should be wary of just how much our time is being skewed toward a Virtual existence instead of an actual one.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[untaken_name]

Games like Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, AO, UO, etc. are great ways to kill some time and be relatively sociable at the same time, but if you took the average gamer's log of online gaming hours and re-invested those same hours in something like The University of Pheonix Online, they would have a Ph. D or two by now.

Sure, if *any* college cost 12.95 a month for access limited only to available time. Of course, since a degree from UPO costs around 50 grand....
it would only take you around 3861 months to pay for it with the same money you're spending on AO.
How is a person playing a ton of games any different from people that read 30+ books a month? Aren't they spending all their time in a virtual universe too? You know, *they* could just get a degree instead....of course, I guess it doesn't matter that each individual person makes their own choices. *You* think time would be better spent a certain way, so if someone doesn't spend it that way, they are 'losing sight of reality.'
Perhaps the millions of TV junkies, game addicts, book freaks, gardening fools, etc don't *want* a University of Phoenix Online degree. Maybe they don't *want* to substitute whatever *your* personal choice would be. Maybe they *like* to spend their time how *they* choose to. When you start telling people how to spend their time, even if you think it's 'better,' we get a little closer to living in a country where an elite few impose their will on everyone. You'd probably be up in arms about someone telling you you had to drop out of school to watch tv, or just sit around....but the principle is the same. I fear people who say they know what's 'best for everyone' because they don't know *me* and I may not agree with them. Not that it matters, but I play video games, watch TV, watch movies, read about 15 books a month, and build things out of wood, metal, and plastic for fun. I'm not a rabid gaming fanboy, but I don't think games are any less valid as entertainment or escape than any other form of entertainment. You can learn from just about any activity, even watching TV.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Durindana]

I'd like to make the case that time spent on any particular habit, pursuit, hobby - or obsession, as seems the case for Stenlund - is not necessarily equally worthwhile simply out of its value to you personally.

For example, I would place playing Anarchy Online, or any other MMORPG, well below, say, reading classically-accepted literature like Faulkner, Thomas (not Tom) Wolfe or Cormac McCarthy. Ditto for the rest of the "Great Books" canon. Why?

Well, I have this (perhaps naive) idea that true art carries

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Tim Browse]

"more constructive" of course is completely subjective

My favourite perspective on this is something John Lennon once said: "Time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted."

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[PhxBlue]

A lvl200 character and a buck-fifty buys you a cup of coffee.

Actually, a Lvl 200 character is probably worth a lot more than $1.50 on E-Bay.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[hyphz]

Heh, that reminds me of what Richard Bandler used to say (paraphrased):

"Teachers today say they can't interest our kids. Let me get this straight. They have the entire world of science, literature and mathematics to work with and they can't interest our children, but Nintendo Corp. can make our kids obsessively, hours-on-end-every-day interested in an Italian plumber crushing turtles by jumping on them.. and they think the *kids* are doing something wrong."

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Big_Breaker]

I if I hadn't already posted... I'd through a point at the parent.

Bandler said some really insightful things.

Many aspects of education could be improved immeasurably by applying video-game / hollywood style techniques for engrossing people. Who else remembers Schoolhouse Rock? I can still sing those songs.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[kin_korn_karn]

So-called "educators" are the ones that make education into an authority game. There are a lot of professors out there that just don't give a shit, or they got into teaching because they had no power in other areas of their life (to that end I'm thinking of high school teachers)

Personally, I love to learn. I also understand the need to learn things that I may not enjoy inherently or be able to immediately apply. What I don't like is being told how to learn, and being expected to learn under anyone else's style but my own. Many teachers feel the need to force their methods of learning down your throat.

I also don't like arbitrary limits on my personal freedom. I had professors in college (well, for one class before I ran to admissions and changed) that would flunk you for taking bathroom breaks. I'm an adult and a taxpayer and when I was in college I paid tuition - I'll go to the bathroom whenever the hell I want. It's to my benefit to go to class, so there's no need to force me to attend. Attempting to is nothing more than satisfying your own weaknesses.

Support

[darthtuttle]

I always wondered why the game creators don't support people like this more often. I don't imagine that they would have to pay him a lot. Him and others obviously help keep people interested in the game, and he'd have more time to devote to it. Give him responsibility within his profession or class and some duties to perform, the goal of which would be to keep people playing. People like him obviously play an important part in the game.

Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Schezar]

I attend the Rochester Institute of Technology. My freshman year (so long ago -_-), a friend of mine had a room mate, let's call him Loser.

Now, Loser seemed like a nice guy. He was quiet, he used his computer, ate his grub, and generally stayed out of my friend's way. In fact, he never said anything to my friend, or to anyone else as far as we were aware.

You see, Loser played Asheron's Call. All the time. His body would sit there rigid, unmoving, while he leveled. My friend recalls a specific incident where he woke up to find Loser playing, went to several classes, played some D&D with all of us, and returned over 9 hours later to find him still playing the game. We know Loser had been playing the whole time: he was wearing the same towel he'd had on that morning, and the empty plate we assume he'd eaten breakfast off of was still sitting on his lap.

Loser would ignore fire alarms (which at RIT, which adjoins the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, is no small feat). Loser would forget to eat. Loser would rarely go to class, shave, bathe, or move.

The end of the year came, and Loser went home. He kept his computer hooked up and running right up until his parents had moved everything else to the car. I assume it was the first thing he unpacked.

Loser still goes to RIT as far as I can tell. I saw him in the Engineering building once, so I think he's an engineering student.

I never liked Loser. I wonder why...

Bladder of Steel?

[DaRat]

9+ hrs in the same spot? His name should have been "Bladder of Steel"!

Or, [shudder] was there a large puddle at his feet?

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[zebs]

I never liked Loser. I wonder why...

He was better at it than you?

Telling quote from the article

[writertype]

If a game is a rigidly defined artificial activity that is meant to be completed, or won, then products like Anarchy Online are in many ways not really games at all. Rather, they are full-fledged virtual sandboxes. Instead of castles, players build lives.

He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Ubergrendle]

The problem with "Real Life" is that the penalty phase for a high frag count is enormous -- in some states the penalty is permanent account deletion!

Re:Telling quote from the article

[fuzzybunny]

Yes, agreed. However, throwing hand grenades at people in "real life" tends to be considered a bit of a faux-pas in many less-enlightened social circles.

That's not, of course, meant to be judgmental, as I've found that throwing hand grenades at people can be a very productive form of conflict resolution; I'm just saying that the common hordes one encounters during the day may not necessarily be capable of understanding the enlightened intellect of the gamer.

Why, just think about it, at some point there

Re:Telling quote from the article

[kin_korn_karn]

I do speak from personal experience. I grew up on a farm on top of a hill in eastern Kentucky. All the people around me were redneck assholes, the only knowledge you're allowed to possess there without being beaten is how to rebuild an engine and how to get your sister to hold still (for the trolls: no, I didn't bang my sister, and I didn't try to). The closest town had 1200 people. The closest semi-major city was Columbus OH.

I couldn't get a connection to an ISP higher than 14.4 due to the shitty phon

Because it is computers it is wierd.

[will_die]

If they guy just sat in a chair, drank beer, and watched sports during the time he plays the game, he would be considered normal.
Throw in that he players games on his computer and he is considered wierd.

Same problem with

[geekoid]

D&D
A mental unblalnced guy, with parents who put him under tremndous pressure plays a few game of DnD, then tries to kill himself, D&D is evil and destroying lives!

However, A guy obssessed with golf, kills himself because he can't lower his handicapp, no one even mentions golf in a negativly.

Yes, I grew up in the 70s playing D&D, how can you tell? ;)

Interrogation

[nounderscores]

Agent Smith: As you can see, we've had our eye on you for some time now, Mr. Stenlund. It seems that you've been living two lives. In one life, you're Richard L. Stenlund, a struggling, frustrated 27-year-old computer repairman trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television. The other life is lived at the distant end of a strife-torn galaxy, where you are a genetically engineered mutant called Thedeacon and are guilty of virtually every soul-light dimming crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not. I'm going to be as forthcoming as I can be, Mr. Stenlund. You're here because we need your help. We know that you've been contacted by a certain individual, a man who calls himself Morpheus. Now whatever you think you know about this man is irrelevant. He is considered by many authorities to be the most dangerous man alive. My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you but I believe that you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start and all that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.

_________________________________
The Spiders are Coming. Next episode June 13th 2003 [e-sheep.com]

I don't get it

[Samus]

I don't get it this guy is spending 7 hours a day diverting himself playing a game. Then he turns around says his life sucks and he has no money. If he spent that 7 hours a day in the real world improving himself he just might make a decent living and not live life hand to mouth. Though I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the guy. He ran a internet pc store and failed miserably then decides to flee reality. Unfortunately for him reality is catching up and now he decides he should flee to Las Vegas. He'll wind up in the same situation he is in now just a different city. And you know what? He'll probably still be playing AO when he should be improving his situation.
Call this flamebait if you want its just what I have seen time and time again.

Stupid Registration

[pete-classic]

Why can't Slashdot get partner status with The NYT?

-Peter

Even the "journalistic" standards are the same

[SuperBanana]

Why can't Slashdot get partner status with The NYT?

Sure, why not- in fact, why stop there. Jason Blair would be the perfect slashdot story submitter and editor(most story-posters simply copy, outright, the first paragraph of whatever story they're linking to; Slashdot editors do zero factchecking, etc.)

I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[goldspider]

"trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television"

And escaping into a computer game is somehow more noble or meaningful? Please give me a physical break, and dispense with the drama. He's not out feeding starving children, he's playing a video game.

I have no problem with people pointing out some of the negatives of our culture, but I'm afraid playing a video game doesn't elevate one above the 'sheep-le'.

Yeah...

[nanojath]

"The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

Yeah, I have a tough time taking this kind of sentiment from a person spending nearly half their waking life immersed in an artificial personality in an artificial world (I find the idea that because you can act out whatever the hell impulse you want in an online environment, it is somehow more "real" than the hard-copy world, stupid and offensive).

Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen... Madison WI may not be Las Vegas but it is one of the 100 largest cities in the USA, and although I haven't lived there myself it seems like a pretty good place as far as mid-sized cities go. A quick search of past accolades netted, among others:

Ranked #1 of Small-size Cities for Creativity by The Washington Monthly, #2 among "America's Best Places to Live and Work" by Employment Review Magazine, UW-Madison Ranked 35th in the World of Top Executive Eduation Providers by the London-based Financial Times, The Most Wired City in the Country by The Media Audit and International Demographics, One of Top Five Cities for Entrepreneurial Business Growth by the National Commission on Entrepreneurship, One of America's Most Environmentally Friendly Cities by ENN.com, #3 City for Business Owners by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Best City For Quality of Life by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Top 10 Cities to Have It All by A & E Network, September, 1999, #1 Best Places to Live in America, Money magazine, 10 Most Livable Places in America The Advocate, #5 America's 10 Most Enlightened Towns, Utne Reader, #3 Safest of Nation's 100 Largest Cities Morgan Quinto Press, Best Mid-Sized City Travel Getaway Midwest Living magazine

Sounds like opportunity exists there.

Though articulate and clearly intelligent, he skipped college because he believed that school stifled creativity.

And pardon me for being an elitist, but that's a thin excuse for not getting the credentials and connections, and the attendent opportunities, that go along with getting an advanced education. The only thing that can stifle a person's creativity is that person. There are well-worn paths of least resistance in all walks of life.

I think a lot of people could get caught up in something like this, particularly at at time when the track they've chosen suddenly veers south. But at the same time, this sounds like a profile of a person who likes shortcuts and is too quick to blame his environment for what are fundamentally personal problems. Online world's are what they are because they lack or simplify the real consequences, and many of the real difficulties and complexities, of the physical world. "Success" in that context is a third-class substitute for seeking the prosperity, relationships and recognition you need in the real world.

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[Shawn Baumgartner]

It means that he's not one of the pinheads driving like an asshole, stealing the house plants by my front door, taking up two spaces in a crowded parking lot, or lobbying the government to enforce their particular morality on me at gunpoint. As far as I'm concerned, he's damn near royalty. ;)

This man needs help

[tsa]

" "It's a total release of the id," he said one Thursday last month as
he sat in a Japanese restaurant in Madison with his wife, Sarah A.
Werner-Stenlund, explaining his attraction to Anarchy Online. "I think
people are generally false. Even sitting here with you, we are putting
on a front. But in A. O. you can really let your true character out.
If I want to be a pervert, I am able to do that in A. O. and be a
pervert right off the bat." "

This man needs help. If you have such a distorted view of the people around you something is very wrong with you. It's a miracle that he is still married.

Like workaholic with a key difference

[release7]

A lot of people escape reality by becoming completely engrossed in their day jobs. Except they're not filing bankruptcy like this guy did.

Who's the bigger looser?

[twocoasttb]

Mr. Stenlund or his wife? What the hell is she sticking around for? This guy isn't hardcore, he's an addict. The scary thing is, we're going to be seeing many, many more people like him as these games become more popular and our society becomes even more disconnected. What a waste.

Loser is the opposite of winner...

[nanojath]

Looser is the opposite of tighter.

The scary thing is, we're going to be seeing many, many more people like him as these games become more popular and our society becomes even more disconnected.

On the other hand, who cares? It will reduce traffic density and free up the job market. I can't wait until "wirehead" electrical stimulation of pleasure centers and fully immersive virtual reality become commonplace - I look forward to driving through the empty streets, as 90% of America retreats into a quiescent and obese stupor.

so let move to vegas!

[jzarling]

"Now, however, the couple's most important goal is to relocate to an exotic destination in this galaxy: Las Vegas." So he's a guy with a addictive peronality traits, and he is moving to Vegas?

Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[xTown]

Far from being too far from "big cities where big things happen", Madison is in pretty much the perfect location.

Milwaukee is an hour away. Chicago is two hours away. Minneapolis is not much more than that.

The University of Wisconsin is in Madison, so you've got all of the resources of a college town. If you're into sports, the UW has excellent teams in a variety of them, and you're only a few hours away from professional sports in Milwaukee, Green Bay, Chicago, and the Twin Cities.

If you like bookstores, Madison has a ton of them, and not just big chains like Borders and B&N. There are a wide variety of used book stores downtown, including one that specializes in science fiction and fantasy.

We don't get earthquakes. In Madison, I've heard the tornado warning siren exactly once in the last dozen years. Flooding is pretty much never an issue.

Madison has a good symphony and a viable opera. We also have art-house movie theaters. Madison has or is close to several very good experimental and straight theater groups. We also have an award-winning alternative newsweekly, Isthmus.

To sum up: no disasters. Lots of books. Art. Theater. University. Cities close by if you want them, cities ignorable if you'd rather ignore them.

Frankly, if this guy can't find intellectual stimulation in Madison, he won't find it anywhere. Least of all in Las Vegas.

MMORPG stereotype destroyed!

[mapmaker]

Wow, that story sure did dispell the biased notion that online RPG players are disfunctional failers in the real world who use these games to flee their miserable lives.

I don't think so....

[TnkMkr]

Ummm... I lived in Madison for a few years while I was attending the College of Engineering there. I don't like the way they paint the city as this little town with nothing but adult bookstores and used car lots. The city is the state capitol. Aside from the capitol is a large University. The city has its fair share of malls, chain stores, as well as brand spanking new mulit-million dollar arts district being constructed down town. Hell, Raven software and a few other software companies are in Madison. I'll admit the city is no Chicago, New York or L.A., but it is hardly a po-dunk population 100 town with no oppertunites. I don't know what big city events he is looking for, but I can't imagine anything I can do here in Washington D.C. that I could not have easily done in Madison. There is just more traffic here. As far as him finding opportunities, I think there is problem with the person not the city. If he devoted 7hrs a day to the local university Iâ(TM)ll bet he would learn more and accomplish more than he does playing A.O. Based on previous posts, I would classify him as an addict rather than a hardcore gamer. If he is unhappy with his life then he needs to get out from behind his computer and out on the streets looking to better his life. Opportunity is won, not found or given.

From the article

[nightsweat]

They don't get out much. That is partly a result of the couple's dim finances, but also a result of Mr. Stenlund's dim view of humanity. "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

So go out and do something to wake them up. Don't retreat to the electronic anaesthetics. TV, computer games, music - all these exist in some part to desensitize you to the world around you and the people you live near. Wake the hell up and wake up a neighbor while you're at it.

What a creative, intelligent young man...

[micq]

WTF?

Like many natural extroverts, Mr. Stenlund actually seems a bit shy offstage. Though articulate and clearly intelligent, he skipped college because he believed that school stifled creativity. Even as a child, Mr. Stenlund was not very outgoing, according to his mother, Marge Jarrells.

Funny, like many of the undriven, he skipped college because he had an excuse. I could buy the whole stifled intelligence B.S. if he had done something with his un-stifled intelligence after skipping college.

"He was pretty close to home most of the time," Ms. Jarrells, a pianist in Madison, said in a telephone interview. "Growing up, it was kind of hard for him to find his niches, and that is typical for people of high intelligence. They are not as sociable as other people. They are just off to themselves in their little projects."

In this latest of Mr. Stenlund's little projects, Thedeacon has also made a name for himself as an excellent warrior. Fantastically wealthy, at Level 200, with the best, rarest equipment, Thedeacon often helps represent the rebel clans in their battles against the forces of Omni-Tek.

Projects? High intelligence? WTF?

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke. What kind of project is playing a game? Leading others? The article made it clear he was a leader because he wasted his life more than most, not because he's anything special... No, no "project"...

Face it, he's a nerd playing a game. The only credit I want to give him is that he found a wife that obviously puts up with his unstifled bullshit. That, in my book, is creditworthy.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[Anonymous Coward]

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke.

No, wisdom would tell one this. Intelligence is a whole different story. One can be intelligent and lack wisdom.

Hand-to-mouth?

[booch]

He's "trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence"? Maybe if he got off his ass and worked hard, he wouldn't be living "hand-to-mouth". Anyway, the term implies that you have to work hard for every meal. This guy definitely doesn't fit the bill.

thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

__________________
Thedeacon, lvl 200 MP
Thedeacon1 lvl140ish enforcer
Xcelsius lvl 167 MA

These are my only characters atm .

Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

Corinthians: "Thedeacon = 1900+ posts, 98% of them pure troll goodness."

Please do not send me random tells asking me to fly out and buff you. It's disruptive and inconsiderate to what I'm doing. I am not a walking, talking buff terminal and really do have better things to do than fly out to buff you or wait for you to fly to me. if you see me, I'll happily buff you. if you contact me because you don't feel like finding an mp in your zone, I'll /ignore you. I also don't give away money, I give knowledge, which in the end is far mor valuable. BUT I'M STILL A NICE GUY. REALLY I AM

VOTE THEDEACON FOR CLAN PRESIDENT!! OMG!

SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR FIXING THE META-PHYSICISTS' PLIGHT! JOIN US FOR 'BLACK SUNDAY'

the NYT point of view

[khallow]

Thedeacon is a celebrity. Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television.

I think this summarizes the NYT view on everything outside of New York City. I happen to be a little confused as to why they don't think it applies to New York City as well... I guess they live in a different "reality".

Positive Contribution

[cyranoVR]

My initial reaction was "this guy is a big-time loser." But then I thought about his story a little more deeply...

First of all, his failiure in Real Life was probably inevitable - after all, it is fairly clear from the article that his AO addiction followed his failiure, not the other way around. He encountered failure, and chose to escape it through online gaming.

Considering this, his situation is actually very similar - almost identical - to thousands (millions?) of other Americans - except that in his case you substitute

"watches daytime TV all day"

"is drunk of his ass all day"

"sends spam emails all day"

with

"plays a MMORPG all 7 hours a day."

Therefore, you have to recognize that at the very least his chosen activity is on the whole a positive, not negative, force. Sure, as its not helping him improve his Real Life (not yet anyway), but at least he is enriching others' lives through his contribution to AO. He's helping to make the game more enjoyable for dozens, hundreds or thousands of other people - therefore having a positive impact on people around him, however small.

If more unemployed disillusioned types played online games all day instead of getting drunk and beating their kids, America might actually be a slightly better place.

Fatter and pastier skinned, yes, but still slightly better.

Advice for Mr. Stenlund, who hates the "false"

[Zhe Mappel]

"I think people are generally false. Even sitting here with you, we are putting on a front. But in A. O. you can really let your true character out. If I want to be a pervert, I am able to do that in A. O. and be a pervert right off the bat."

I grok that perv stuff, baby. Still, rumor has it the Internet will allow you to be a pervert without paying monthly fees. Also, you won't have to wear robes or carry a staff around, and you can accomplish it in somewhat less than 7 hours per day.

The difference

[autechre]

Some people have been questioning the difference between gaining skill in a video game, and being somewhat obsessive about gardening, or some sport. I realized it the other day, and that's when I stopped playing PSO.

Barring some tragic accident, the instruments that I play, the cooking skills that I learn, and the martial arts that I practice will continue. They have been around for hundreds of years (at least). These skills will also continue to be a part of me for the rest of my life, assuming I keep up with them a little, and again, barring a serious accident.

Games like PSO and UO are different. These games will be around for a few years at most. Since the Dreamcast version of PSO is still limping along, we could maybe even call it 5 years. Yes, some of the skills you get in playing one game transfer to another, but you still have to start out at level 1 with nothing. Your "skills" and "accomplishments" are relevant only as long as the whims of (largely) a bunch of schoolchildren deem them to be so.

Don't misunderstand. I love to play video games...too much. I love a good story, and view a video game as a valid means of getting that story to me, just as much as a good book. But I realized that PSO was not like that; it was breaking my "rules", my reason for playing a game. I had seen all of the plot long ago (save for small updates made only very rarely). It was just repetition now, similar to practicing martial arts (outside of class), but it would all be gone in a few years.

So rather than spend 1600 hours getting to level 200 (actual numbers for one guy on a message board I used to moderate), I stopped. It's easier since the GameCube is in my brother's room (he bought it). I told him to use my characters as he sees fit. I was tired of PSO invading all of my thoughts, keeping me from sleep, and generally making me a less interesting person by absorbing my life.

For those who are deep into such territory, try taking a week off. Totally disconnect; no message boards, no talking about it, nothing. And don't just watch TV instead. Try to remember other things that (used to?) interest you. You might find it's something like waking up.

Imagine a country

[Sylvius]

Imagine a country where someone declares bankruptcy, then goes to the mall with his wife to buy some treats (that's when he bought AO). Then, the person is a week from eviction, but has a modern computer, internet access, and the disposable income to pay $13 a month for a game. Is it any wonder that communism failed?

Using MMORPGs for Societal Good?

[JAS0NH0NG]

This is going to be a lengthy but serious discussion of MMORPGs.

Usually, when I read these kinds of articles about game addicts, I always think, "if only we could use his powers for good!" If only we could make it so that people get more out of games than just fun. If only we could actually get something genuinely useful at the same time (so we don't end up with stories like this one from The Onion [theonion.com]).

My canonical example is Crazy Taxi [acclaim.com]. In this game, you drive a taxi, taking people from place to place in a pseudo-San Francisco city. You get more points for driving recklessly, getting as close as you can to crashing things without actually crashing into them. What if...you could actually learn the streets of San Fran while playing this game? I hate driving there because I don't know what the streets are, because of all the one-way streets, because of all the cars and pedestrians. But what if you could actually learn the streets incidentally while playing the game? You would actually be learning something useful beyond the game console.

Now, analogously, what if we could get something useful out of MMORPGs, more than just entertainment and player-killing?

Here's a crazy idea: what if we could actually simulate real problems of society in MMORPGs and harness the power of players in solving those problems? For example, homelessness or pollution?

What if these MMORPGs were modelled such that they actually reflected real aspects of the world, creating an environment where we could actually experiment with different public policies, or even have the numerous players (who are clearly very intelligent people) try to figure out different solutions to these problems? Try out different ideas that may eventually influence what we actually do in the real world?

One example that's pushing in this direction is University of Washington's UrbanSim [urbansim.org], where they try to predict what the impact of different public policy decisions will be on the environment. (They also run tests on old data to make sure their model matches the actual results).

I'm aware of how difficult this would be, all of the barriers in making convincing and realistic models, in making an appropriate reward system to incentivize people, in actually convincing academic scholars in sociology and public policy as well as policy makers that these ideas can be realistically and feasibly implemented with the expected results. (I'm in the Phd program in Computer Science at Berkeley, I have a pretty good idea of how difficult it would be).

But think about the potential here as well. A simulation with thousands of people interacting with one another, where we could try out radical new ideas in solving problems. Think of it as SimSociety. Think of it as a variation of Doug Engelbart's vision [bootstrap.org], where we need to get better at solving problems because the ones we're facing these days are far harder than anything we've ever seen before. Players could be doing more than just having fun. They could also be making a difference, for the better.

OMG!

[bethanie]

He demands sexual favors from mutants of all species and requests that, in particular, mutant females of the nanomage persuasion provide him their feet.

I'm pretty sure I dated this guy in college!

....Bethanie....

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[martingunnarsson]

Anarchy online [anarchy-online.com]

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[Quietust]

Let's follow the pattern set by other game names:
UO == Ultima Online
PSO == Phantasy Star Online
So, AO == America Online!
Hmm, that might explain a few things...

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[jdh-22]

Anarchy Online [anarchyonline.com] is a game much like Everquest. But it has kinda of a twist to it. The players make up the story line. There is a war going on, between 2 divisions, the Omni, and the Clan. The players have been given the foundation of the starting storyline, but the players (with the help of some special events) keep the story going by fighting the opposing side. It is based on a more technologicly advanced culture. Good place to read into the game's story line, look here [anarchy-online.com].

^FLAMEBAIT^

[DumbWhiteGuy777]

Oh man, I bet you've pissed off the 12 year old gamer section of Slashdot. I'd watch out. They will sooo 0wn you with their Broad Axes of Destruction(+25 Dex, +10 Str, +2 to all Skills).

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

The last sentence was supposed to read "Hard Core Gamer..." but I missed the 'd'.

Pays to aim I guess...

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[darthtuttle]

First, not every 12 yr old is a great gamer. I know I've got better skills than most of my friends, but a few of them will blow me out of the water in most any game (GT3 being the exception), but there's always been a group of players who will always blow my doors off in any game I try. There is a skill component. Sure the 12 yr olds can play them, but play them well?

Second, in a MM online game there's a social component.

Third, the value of the game is in it's dificulty. How much more do you have to thin

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

You want some real skill learn to play an instrument [piano is fairly hard] or invent a longer lasting light bulb. Those are *real* talents.

It seems like it's been a long time since you've played any modern multiplayer title.

You think is is random chance? Is it random that a serious Quake/Counter Strike/Street Fighter player could beat you 100 times in straight matches?

If you still contend there is no skill, give it a try and see how well you do.

I'm sorry but most 12 yr old kids can play the same games and I certainly don't idolize them.

Most 12 years olds can plonk the keys on a piano and make sound come out of it too - nobody is suggesting they are _good_ at it though, or worth idolising. Most games are ment to be very accessible, like most sports.

As for for you comment about 'real' talents: What about football players? Or tennis players, or table tennis players, or golfers - do you think they are not 'real' talents? Why should the ability to be good at table tennis, or softball, or batting, pitching, fielding, or kicking a ball, be held in any higher regard than the ability to be really good at game like Quake, Counter Strike or a more complex and strategic title like Ghost Recon?

If your assumuption was correct then you should be able to beat Quake III on the hardest level with little difficulty, after all others can do it - and so if it takes no skill why would you find it difficult when they do not?

You are so amazingly anachronistic it's stunning. Games are not like Zork any more, titles like Ghost Recon have easily require easily as much skill as a paintball, and MotoGP as much skill as entry level karting, but online games are physically and practically more accessable (and cheaper).

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

I do agree we shouldn't idolize them (unless, you know, they are _really_ good ;).

Karting, Paintball, Snowboarding and learning Magic Tricks aren't in themselves that useful either, but they still have skill involved.

Doing them to an acceptable 'competative' level is not the hardest things in the world (not as hard as say, learning a musical instrument) but it's quite similar to getting a good level of skill in a multiplayer game (like Unreal Tournament or Counter Strike), in that it can take a similar am

You can't move with no money and debt

[CrazyJim0]

I have no money, and I have debt. I have enough gas in my car to drive 20 miles.

My college isn't doing shit for me, I'm asking for help, but no one wants to talk to me.

It sucks too because I'm an awesome computer application programmer, and I have designed many things other people developed and became successful with.

No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[CrazyJim0]

I've sent out 1000 resumes to any "programmer" position I see on the net, but I have never gotten an interview.

I don't have ANY idea how to look for a job, and I come from a poor family who's never had a professional career past manual labor.

I'm good at accomplishing things, but I'm not good at searching around.

Check down for my example code if you're still a disbeliever.

Re:Twin worlds

[matt_wilts]

The article makes a salient (if subtle) point -- the twin worlds of real and simulated are converging. The bytes on a stick of RAM, the packets flung across Cable TV lines -- these coalesce into a spatial world depicting personality and (in this case) lending illustration to a personal article.

You are John Katz and I claim my five dollars.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[dryueh]

I'm sure there's a paragraph tag in there somewhere.....but damned if I can find it.

Woof.