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PC Games (Games) Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

Looking For God In Videogames 110

Posted by simoniker from the god-preoccupied-with-junior-kickstart dept.
Thanks to MSNBC.com for their article discussing the use of religion in videogames, both overtly Christian titles and those just addressing the subject indirectly. As the article comments, "Before 'god mode' or 'god games' there were 'God games' -- low budget, PC floppy disks that married evangelical Christian thought and scripture with simple game play. The boundaries between the holy and the secular were simpler then... Today, the lines have grown fuzzier." The piece also points to religious overtones in MMORPGs: "In EverQuest, the massive online multiplayer game, new players are asked to pick from among the religions native to the land of Norrath. One of Norrath's deities, 'The Nameless' has triggered talk on discussion boards over whether 'Nameless' could be understood as the Jewish Yahweh. Some [Christian] evangelists have even used EverQuest to proselytize to fellow players."
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Looking For God In Videogames More

Looking For God In Videogames

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  • Why the word"YAHWAH" is not what you mean (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zachary Kessin ( 1372 ) <zkessin@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @09:37PM (#6750976) Homepage Journal
    Please don't use it, "G-d" is a perfectly good word. That is not a good translitteration of the four letter name of G-d into english. We don't know how it was pronouced as the name was only said once a year by the Kohen Gadol (High priest) on Yom Kipor in Temple days. It should also be pointed out that there is no "W" sound in hebrew, nor is there a "J".
    • From what I understand, when it was pronounced, it was said epithetically, (phonetically) "Yo-hay-va-hay," roughly translating to "I am that I am."

      It should also be noted that I don't know what I'm talking about and that this is just a vague recollection from an undergrad mythology class I took a while back.
      • "Yo-hay-va-hay," roughly translating to "I am that I am."

        I'm fluent in hebrew, and that's not even close to the translation of the hebrew sentence "I am that I am" (but that's still a nice theory)

        My favorite theory I have heard (and the one i lean to) on YHVH's name is this. Take a look at these 3 hebrew words (and how to spell them in phonetic english)

        HYH = Past
        HVVH = Present
        YHYH = Future

        Therefore, YHVH, or G-d, is a combination of the 3... a code for "Past, Present and future." Those who have studied gods and mythology will understand that the G-d of the Bible is a "Gd of time" as opposed to Zeus, Ra, etc, who were "gods of nature," thus making the YHVH (G-d) name a good candidate for some sort of time-relevence.

    • Re:Why the word"YAHWAH" is not what you mean (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @09:48PM (#6751032) Journal
      On that note, Jesus was almost certainly not pronounced as we do today, nor are any of the names from Biblical times. In fact, Jesus is derived from Joshua which shows they were pronouncing it wrong even in the first century.

      Christian writers have a long tradition of using both Yahweh and Jehovah. Do not worry about it so much, but understand who it is that you are going to offend. To observant Jews (and others), seeing it in print or hearing it pronounced is offensive in the same way that a pornographic picture would be. The prohibition against taking God's name in vain is taken seriously. That should not be laughed off. Faith is a scarce enough commodity in public discourse these days that a little respect for it is not going to hurt anybody.

      • Re:Why the word"YAHWAH" is not what you mean (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Zachary Kessin ( 1372 ) <zkessin@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @10:01PM (#6751107) Homepage Journal
        I am an orthodox Jew, and it does make me twitch, but it could be worse, at least with this version i know that it is wrong. As for names from biblical times, it depends on the name and the langauge. I know lots of poeple with bibilical names who use the biblical (hebrew) spelling and pronouce it as such. Most of the guys I know named Joshua use Joshua not "Yehoshua" but my friend Jon is at least some of the time "Yonaton" or "Yonason". And I've know a few Shlomos (Solomon), Yaakovs (Isaac) as well as more than one Devorah and Rivka (Rebecca).

        Ok I hang out with religous Jews.
        • A quick Google search shows me that my name becomes 'Yoel' or 'Yowel'. Heh. I'll have to get you to tell me which.
          • I assume your name in English is Joel. I don't remember what the hebrew spelling is. I can't look it up now as I am planning to move to Israel next week, so all of my books are packed and in storage until I can have them shipped over. However its one of those cases where you can transliterate the herbrew with or without the "W" and defend both as a reasonable thing to do. Both would be written the same way with hebre charecters.
      • "The prohibition against taking God's name in vain is taken seriously. That should not be laughed off."

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA. When does the real Age of Reason start so we can delegate religion to the dustbin of history?
        • Probably not for quite a long time. Feel free to try and speed up the process by organizing SinFest 2004. Try and organize a Guiness-worthy number of people to all eat some pork while yelling "God Damn It", worshipping an idol and slapping their moms simultaneously.
          • lol. That would be REAAAL evil! Not this pissy stuff that passes for evil these days! In my day we weren't content until we desecrated several churches and spoke ill of their elders! These days you can hardly get a lewd innuendo past the fascist TV censors, or grope a willing virgin in public! Christianity is the new PC cause: whiny, over-sensitive, and fascist.

    • Re:Why the word"YAHWAH" is not what you mean (Score:5, Informative)

      by superyooser ( 100462 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @04:32AM (#6752783) Homepage Journal
      "G-d" is a perfectly good word. That is not a good translitteration of the four letter name of G-d into english

      [Zachary, I'm talking mainly to my fellow Gentiles. I know you know all of this. I hope you're not too offended at all my uses of the Almighty's name. My only intention here is to promote interest in and knowledge of the Father among the goyim.]

      The name of God, which is not the same thing as "God," appears in the original Scripture as the Hebrew letters: yud heh vav heh. These are all consonants, as the Hebrew alphabet does not have vowels. The vowels are implied. As Zachary alluded to, nobody remembers what the vowels are supposed to be.

      Therefore, transliteration is really not the best way to derive a pronounceable word for God's name. If you insist, Yahveh, not Yahweh, would be the best guess. Word substitution has been much more popular throughout the ages. Christians use "the LORD," while Jews use Adonai ("to be" in Hebrew, I think) or HaShem ("the Name"). I'm surprised Zachary didn't suggest Adonai since it's used in both Jewish and Christian circles.

      As I touched on before... The word "God" does not linguistically derive from YHVH (Yahweh/Jehovah/Lord/Adonai/HaShem), but from Elohim (pronounced Elo-HEEM). But yes, semantically, we can say that Yahweh = God, since Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai echad -- the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.

      • > The name of God, which is not the same thing as "God," appears in the original Scripture as
        > the Hebrew letters: yud heh vav heh. These are all consonants, as the Hebrew alphabet does not
        > have vowels. The vowels are implied. As Zachary alluded to, nobody remembers what the vowels are
        > supposed to be.

        Personally, I go with Larry Gonick's "Cartoon History of the Universe" and think it should be "Yahoo-wahoo".

        Chris Mattern
    • It should also be pointed out that there is no "W" sound in hebrew

      Maybe that's true in modern Hebrew, but not ancient Hebrew [qwest.net]:

      Some pronounce this name with a "v" sound for the third letter from the right, the "vav." It is true, in today's Hebrew, that the letter "vav" is given a "v" sound.

      The "Vav," today pronounced with a "v" sound, was originally pronounced as a "w" (the letter name is often written as "waw"). Biblical Hebrew: A Text and Workbook, by Kittel, Hoffer, and Wright; Yale University Press 198

    • Much agreed. I am not Jewish, but I still abstain from attempting to use the Tetragrammation, because: (1) The use thereof is offensive to many people (2) We do not know how it is pronounced, so Romanizing it (rather than translating it to God with a capital "G") is futile.
      • If all else fails "haShem" litterally "The Name" is used my many frum Jews. When I want to sound pretentious (usually when I am in story teller mode) I will say "Ha Kadosh baruch hu" I.E "The holy one blessed is he". Normally I just say "G-d". It gets the point across the most clearly.

  • proselytize (Score:4, Funny)

    by Andy Smith ( 55346 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @09:39PM (#6750988)
    Some [Christian] evangelists have even used EverQuest to proselytize to fellow players.
    Dictionary.com will be getting a load of hits around now...
    • Don't be stupid. Everyone knows proselytize means To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.

      You're not meaning to say you had to go to a web site to look it up and copy the definition into a post you're making about someone joking about you needing to look it up are you?
    • I've got some ideas that could be worked into Everquest, the crusades.You board ships in hordes, and said to the middle east. You kill all the moozlim ay-rabs you can, and anyone else who gets in the way, burninate villages, rape, pillage loot, take gold gems and jewelry! Leave nothing alive. Do it all in Christ's name. You could also work in witch hunts. Hordes Go into towns with a few mad monks wielding copies of Maleus Maleficorum, and kill witches. Burn 'em! They only way to be sure you got them all is
      • And I recommended this to my local "campus crusade" and got a guilt trip for not being PC. Not the "CCC" either.
      • the witch hunts didn't happen in the middle ages, it was the begining of these modern times of enlightenment and science that brought them on (random link pulled from google, you can find better ones if you look) http://www.gendercide.org/case_witchhunts.html [gendercide.org] the witch hunts didn't get into full gear until around 1550. you could also add in things like 'preserving the last embers of writing and knowledge through the dark ages', 'reintroducing the writings of aristotle that had been lost to the west by tra
    • I hadn't noticed until I saw this post, but I'd never seen that word before, I was able to grok its meaning just from the context.
    • Actually, I use Merriam-Webster [m-w.com]. You get sound samples.

  • Cool (Score:2, Interesting)

    by OneIsNotPrime ( 609963 )
    I'm sure this thread will be full of mockery and scorn, but I definitely prefer this kind of thinking to throwing out the baby with the bathwater [com.com].

    There's a clear trend of online communites, especially MMORPGs, beginning to mimick regular society more and more closely. I see missionary work in virtual communities as a natural progression of this.

  • OK, so I'm a mildly tolerant atheist... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slaker ( 53818 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @09:44PM (#6751011)
    OK, so I'm a mildly tolerant atheist (actually, I'm not. Tolerant, particularly, but we'll pretend), or maybe just not a christian, and hypothetically, I'm paying to be involved in an MMORPG.

    Some jerk starts following me around blathering about his god and how I'm not going to his heaven and basically talking about his personal relationship with Jebus.

    At what point do I have recourse in this? I'm going about my business, and PAYING to do so, and I don't want to hear it.

    Can I complain to the operators of the service? Can I smite the moron for annoying me? Or is my only option to log off or leave because some dumbass is ruining my time online?

    • Re:OK, so I'm a mildly tolerant atheist... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @09:58PM (#6751092) Journal
      That sounds like about the least offensive behavior that I have ever heard of on a MMORPG.

      I have noticed, however, that there are a lot of people in whom any mention of God or other religious topics leads to an instant feeling of revulsion. As a fellow atheist, I blame it on our hard-wiring. It is something that is terribly important to overcome. It is easy to lose out on a lot of life that way.

      • I have noticed, however, that there are a lot of people in whom any mention of God or other religious topics leads to an instant feeling of revulsion.

        For some of us, that comes from being in close quarters with obnoxiously religious people for some extended period of time. I can't stand people that can't keep their damn religions to themselves. If they want to have a relationship with whatever they believe to be a god, then fine. Just don't try to drag me into it too.

        • I take it that you never talk about your denial of religion around others?
        • I have noticed, however, that there are a lot of people in whom any mention of God or other religious topics leads to an instant feeling of revulsion.

          IMHO It's too bad that the people in the few denominations of Christianity (or any other religion) that are obnoxious about spreading their views ruin it for everyone.

          As a Christian myself, I have become more and more annoyed at the overly religious people who think everyone needs to think and believe the same as them. Not too long ago I was approached by

          • Authors like CS. Lewis express it best when he says through his writing you don't have to even believe in the same God to go to heaven.

            I've read a fair bit of C.S. Lewis, but I've yet to come across something along those lines in there. What (book, chapter, page?) specifically are you drawing this conclusion from?

            • I was thinking of the last book of the Narnia series, where some the people who worshipped Tash(?) were accepted to the surprise of the Narnians (it's been so long I could be wrong though). I suppose that part can be interpreted a lot of different ways, but that's the conclusion I came to after reading it.
              • Aslan, who is a representation of the Christian God in the purest form as he gave his life in sacrifice, informed the people of Narnia (the land he created) that if something was done of love, of truth and the virtues that he represents it was done in his name, not the name of Tash. The Chronicles of Narnia I read as a child like most read Tolkien (over and over. :) ) Even though I am not a Christian, I could not and did not want to ignore the blatant religious overtones. However I found the message to be o
                • Hrmm... I suppose I could go on about a big rant like everyone else... blah... I'll stick the classic that fits for a strange reason at this time:

                  Preach on sister Ladykat! :)

                  Besides, Christ was an alien.... I have been watching UFO stories all day on History. "And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Eli'jah went up by a whirlwind into heaven". Chariot of fire my ass... sounds like how stupid people would talk about a flying craft
          • Hear! Hear! I couldn't have said it better myself. I think my pastor summed his philosphy about converting people to Christianity pretty well with the statement: "I'd rather love a person into heaven than scare them out of hell."

      • I have other perfectly valid reasons to miss out on a lot of life. In fact, life is basically one long thing that I miss.

        Seriously, though. How can this be tolerated behavior?

        If someone walks up to me on a street that we each have an equal right to use, that's one thing. If I'm paying for the right to be there, doesn't that also (er, at least in the case of most reasonable services) give me some recourse when something as off-putting as THAT happens?

        For readers who can't empathize, I guess a decent analo
        • You do realize that you have just compared talking about religion to being hit on by members of your own sex. Surely that is not a hang up of some kind about religion, is it?
          • I've been hit on by members of my own sex. I've been told I need to become a mormon, a pentecostal, a baptist, one of those watchtower-carrying bastards and a catholic.

            In my experience, there's a similar level of distaste.

            Actually, I take that back. The first time a guy tried to hit on me, I was kinda flattered, which is something I've yet to experience with those who feel compelled to give witness.
            • Let me just put it this way...

              Christians have a world view that they (we) believe is real. The simple belief is that if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, then you will go to hell (a very un-fun place). By telling you about Jesus, they are actually trying to HELP you. For them to do otherwise would go against their world view.

              But I do freely admit that a lot of people go about it in completely the wrong way.

              Also, keep in mind that religion is all about the truth. You believe that there is no
              • Christians have a world view that they (we) believe is real. The simple belief is that if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, then you will go to hell (a very un-fun place). By telling you about Jesus, they are actually trying to HELP you. For them to do otherwise would go against their world view.

                I have a world view that people should leave me alone when I tell them I'm not interested in listening to them. For all the random people that walk up to me when I'm waiting in line to see a movie or knoc
            • Actually, I take that back. The first time a guy tried to hit on me, I was kinda flattered, which is something I've yet to experience with those who feel compelled to give witness.

              Amen. At least being hit on by a member of your own sex is still being hit on. And those guys tend to take "no" for an answer better than most Jehovah's Mormons.

          • It's less annoying being hit on by a member of my own sex than it is to have people try to bring you in to their religion. The former simply means someone is attracted to you; the latter means someone wants you to live your life by their rules.
      • Speaking as an athiest as well, when someone decides to proselytize to me I usually just do it back. It's really fun when you tell them that they are 99% of the way to being a total athiest, just like me, and they get all shocked. Then I tell them,

        "When you understand why you deny the existance of all gods but the one you worship, then you will understand why I deny yours as well."

        (Para-phrased quote by Stephen F. Roberts)

        I try not to be smug when I say it... =]
      • "It is easy to lose out on a lot of life that way." REally?!? Like all the thrilling discourse I've been missing out on at my local church's pancake breakfast, where drooling old people and insufferable white trash blither on about how THEY'RE THE VICTIMS of ALL the moral injustices in our secular world? Or am I missing out on all the bible studies groups that claim all us athiests have a deepseeded need for spiritualism that we're all ignoring, but in actuality don't have the bloody time between all our ba
      • Odd, as a religious person with some atheist friends, they always seem to find me quite interesting and ask some excellent questions.
        I find them to be not hostile but rather curious
        about my beliefs and such.
        My favorite question is
        "How can someone as smart as you believe in God?"

        But I am not an in your face kind of person, maybe that's makes a difference??

    • OK, so some moron is annoying you for no apparent reason. Your new to online gaming, right? I'm joshing, but the point stands. I remember (get out the violin for this 'back in the day' recollection) playing online games years ago (ok, 6) and having idiots annoy me for no reason that I could fathom. At least now you can put these guys in the religion box. I use to go stupid (or more so) trying to understand why ppl would spend hours online with the pure reason of making things annoying/difficult.
      You can put
    • OK, so why can't you react the same way to them as you would to anyone else who is bothering you?
      There are systems in place to take care of the annoyances of other players in the game. Ignore them, ask them to stop, and when they don't, report them as harrassing you.
      Personally, I think you've just become a tad too sensitive about the whole thing. That other person has just as much right to be there as you do, and has as much right to utilize the system as you do. They are using it for a different purpose th
      • That's what I was asking in the first place: What recourse would a player have? I'm not an MMORPG player or even a MUDer. I've seen Everquest. That's about as close as I've gotten.

        If that is tolerated behavior, I can't imagine wanting to spend time or money in such an environment.
        • Ahh. Understood.
          Yeah, you'd just treat it like someone constantly asking you for money or equipment. Most games offer commands to completely ignore someone, and if they're a constant nuisance, you can report them.
          But I don't think you'll find it to be a problem with your gaming sessions, should you choose to join. Just looking at it from a numbers perspective makes such a situation highly unlikely.
    • It's a game. You have a thwump stick. Draw your own conclusions.
    • Every mmorpg has an /ignore command, where you won't see any text this person sends, for similar reasons.
    • Some jerk starts following me around blathering about his god and how I'm not going to his heaven and basically talking about his personal relationship with Jebus.... I'm going about my business, and PAYING to do so, and I don't want to hear it.

      You've never been on a New York City subway, have you? =)

      At least in games you can use an ignore command or just kill them.
    • I find this post hilarious.

      For years people have been saying to the religious folks that if you don't like what's on tv, radio, etc then turn it off or don't listen.

      So the same thing is happening to you but the another way around. Oh the irony!!
      • ... or don't subscribe in the first place, since the vast majority of folks in the US have some kind of for-pay TV service. I can go along with that.

        But, um, how do I switch the channel on Everquest? Where do I find the game that doesn't have proselytizing xtians?

        Cable and radio both have outlets for entirely-religious programming in largely secular media. So far as I know there's no such thing as a secular MMORPG, and here there's evidence that at least some people want to de-secularize these games as we
    • At what point do I have recourse in this?

      What if I followed you around asking you to join my in-game guild?

      Tell the "jerk" that you're not interested, and if you were interested, you'd seek out Chrisitians in real life, not at an MMORPG. They should leave you alone after that.

  • All praise the cow. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Moo
    • you for to say

      "eat mor chikin"

  • Let me play ActRaiser...

    I really loved when people got into the temple to 'reproduce'.. hehehe...

  • stories (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @10:19PM (#6751215)
    I think God in video games is a completly ignored subject. There is so much subject matter that could be used for material. It's amazing in these days where most people complain about storylines in games that they don't just use stories from the Bible? After all there is a lot of stories in there that many people don't read. Such as the political actions of the kings of Israel and Judah are complex. And what about the prophesies and visions that are in the Bible. And talk about complex characters, WOW. I really think that if most people get past there own bias and unfortunatly sometimes hate they would really like the Bible even if they don't chose to beleive it and I think they would really be impressed by any game that you could make from the history in it. History based or fictional.

    -Emperor Alikar who for some reason can't rember his password... *sigh*
    • Imagine taking an ethics course where the 'lab' work involves playing thru various simulated ethical challenges and comparing the outcomes of different choices...?

      To create such a sim will require precise analysis of all the relevant psychological factors.

      One of the trickiest is modeling self-knowledge-- perhaps the player's character could have its own impulses that have to be understood and worked with? [more] [robotwisdom.com]

      • This was already done in a very simple way for character creation in the Ultima series. A visit to the gypsy trailer, some ethical questions on various situations and voila! You have your character based on your answers.
      • I think the game Black and White at least touched on this. Its by Lionhead Studios and 'god'-games god Peter Molyne-frenchsomethingoranother. I have a friend who really liked it, but he's one of those friends who like everything.
    • I agree. Frankly, I'd love to see more historical games set in Biblical Israel etc. Or an Acts of the Apostles RPG. Yum.
    • The main problem with games based on Biblical stories is the same problem faced by any games based on well-known stories: the interactivity and freedom are necessarily curtailed somewhat in order to stay true to the story. Except in this case, that problem is compounded by the fact that deviating even slightly from the story could be highly offensive to a large portion of the target audience (mainly Christians and Jews).

      While a good RTS or Civ-style game based on the post-Exodus conquest of Canaan might

  • Catechumen (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ive played Catechumen, and would like to report that it was the most horrible game of all time. Who wants to get a giant sword, only to zap people with it? I got stuck in one of the levels because i was surrounded by people newly 'converted'. Where's the fun in that.

  • Um... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...no offense to Mr. Loftus' article, but it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to mention religion and gaming without bringing up Xenogears (as well as Xenosaga), as well as a couple other notables. I understand that it wasn't exactly the point of the article, but he could've easily included religious (not necessarily Christian) influences on gaming (perhaps in part 2?).

    http://www.toastyfrog.com/features/features/reli gi on_01.shtml
    • Yeah this surprised me too... the Xenogames are the highlight of religion in gaming, yet no mention at all of them, wierd. Even GTA Vice City is mentioned, heh!
    • I cant believe they missed the story about misuse of religions and poer that was Grandia II.

  • So-called "Christian games", bad journalism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jensend ( 71114 ) on Wednesday August 20, 2003 @10:55PM (#6751397)
    Most games which are supposed to provide Christian entertainment are neither equipped with a meaningful Christian message nor entertaining. (See my comment [slashdot.org] in a previous discussion.)

    The last part seems like another instance of somebody finding an arcane way to state the obvious and meaningless, prepending the phrase "existential analysis" in front of their banter, and pretending that they have therefore stated something profound and rich with meaning. Kierkegaard et al must have turned in their graves at that. Overall, the writing of the article positively reeks of "I'm on deadline for my column and thus just spouting out the following crap; I hope it gets by our editor and that our readers find it either funny or profound." I mean, is "Will firing up the game console ever be considered a sacred act?" supposed to be funny? It's positively moronic.
    • > I mean, is "Will firing up the game console
      > ever be considered a sacred act?" supposed to
      > be funny? It's positively moronic.

      Not necessarily. In many religions, perhaps most notably Zen Buddhism (which, incidentally, has no concept of a god) even the smallest everyday act becomes something sacred.

      As a Christian, you are probably inclined to think of this life as a kind of dress rehearsal for the next. In other religions, including for example Chassidic Judaism, this life is where we find or (r
      • If you want to extend the usage of the word sacred to include a general spiritual approach to life in all its particulars, that's fine by me (though one would need a new term to designate the specifically sanctified and hallowed). But the journalist's sentence is even more moronic under that interpretation; if all actions are sacred, it makes no sense to wonder if one specific act will (presumably thanks to human effort, given the context of the statement) become sacred at some point in the future.
  • "Looking For God In Videogames" : in particular, I find myself drawn to Populous...

  • Buddhist concepts (Score:2, Informative)

    by The Munger ( 695154 )
    There's a discussion going on flipCode [flipcode.com] about Buddhist Concepts in games [flipcode.com].
    • Interesting discussion, however, nothing mentioned in the article is actually unique to Buddhism. The idea of dying, coming back, and trying to escape this cycle through learning is common to Hinduism, Jainism, and even Pythagorean religion.
  • Do spawn-campers, aimbot users and other smacktards go to Virtual Hell?
    [sound of rocket launcher being readied]
    Let's find out...

  • The devil (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stardeep ( 66237 )
    "There have been too many games," said Bagley, "Where the devil always wins or is one of the strongest characters."

    But surely if this guy is a Christian, he will have to admit that according to his religion, the devil is one of the strongest "characters"? I mean, he's possibly the second-strongest being in the universe, second only to the Big Guy in the Sky.

    I have nothing but contempt for these pick-and-mix religious types.

    (Although the thought of fighting for the soul of a "troubled teenager" kinda tur
  • This, unfortunately, is the reason that I have a bad taste in my mouth when I think about this game. I'm going to take a lot of heat for what I'm about to say, but I'm honestly disappointed in the spiritual content of WW. The Great Faeries somewhat resemble the Hindu goddess Shiva. Link gains the ability to "possess" certain objects and even a few specific people. resemble Every few minutes it's "the gods this, and the gods that...", the Windwaker contains "the power of the gods", you get a certain ability
    • I'm glad he's looking for spiritual content in video games. This way when he dies, St. Peter won't be waiting for him at the gates, but Pac-Man.

      Seriously, has our culture (as a world, mind you) fallen so far that we are now unable to separate reality from fantasy for the hours spent playing a video game-- for even a moment? Lots of great literature would be lost if it were judged on its political-religious correctness factor; specifically the Greek and Roman myths. The rest of the world should not be pu
  • Some [Christian] evangelists have even used EverQuest to proselytize to fellow players.


    Alright, come on and proselytize to me in the PK arena!

    (/me is an aggressive antitheist - quit believing or quit breathing!)
  • I think the purpose of The Nameless is not so much to make parallels to a real-world religion as to create one that is internally consistent. In games such as EQ you find a mythos of lots of minor gods, but these aren't really omnipotent beings so much as superheroes/villians. They have lots of cool powers and a distinctive sphere of control (war, nature, justice, whatever), but they have serious limitations to their power and can eventually be defeated by player characters.

    In short, they don't work ver

    • Very good point. If you want to promote/criticize belief systems that are part of the game, rock on... but discussion of a real-world religion (including telling another player, "Come worship the Nameless One with me - He's the same as the Jewish G_d!") should be as taboo as trying to sell real-world vaccuum cleaners to other players.

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

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