Source Code to Homeworld Released

ceejayoz writes "The source code for Relic Entertainment's 1999 Game of the Year, Homeworld, has just been released. Details are available at Homeworld Universe. Not GPL'ed, but pretty nifty all the same." Note that any sort of property aside from the source such as graphics or codecs have been stripped out, but it's still cool to look through the game engine.

Re:If copyright were abolished, we'd see more sour

[ceejayoz]

Imagine a world without copyright.

Imagine a world without any good games.

Re:If copyright were abolished, we'd see more sour

[Snowspinner]

Imagine a world without any good games.

I don't have to imagine.

steal?

[Thinkit3]

It'd only be stealing if your code was deleted when it was copied.

Re:steal?

[ceejayoz]

So, I suppose you wouldn't care if someone took your GPL'ed work, violated the license, and released it - with their name on it, deleting all credit and the GPL license?

The copyright owner of the code may not be losing the code itself, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the right to say how their code is used and who gets it.

Re:steal?

[Drantin]

Have you not heard of the perfectly valid term "Copyright infringement" ? This describes exactly that situation of people using your code in ways that violate the licensing terms of the GPL... Why you would want to call a spade a chicken rather than a spade is beyond me...

Re:steal?

[ceejayoz]

I'm gonna link you to this wonderfully insightful AC [slashdot.org] to answer that.

You're using something that you don't have the right to use - I'll call it stealing, whether you like it or not.

Re:steal?

[vadim_t]

Nope. You steal something when you remove something that isn't yours from its original position.

The whole concept of stealing was made long before computers appeared and only makes sense when applied for physical things. You can steal a computer, but not the software on it, unless you take the whole disk.

Re:steal?

[ceejayoz]

The whole concept of stealing was made long before computers appeared and only makes sense when applied for physical things.

Then, as often happens with language, the definition of "to steal" has changed to reflect changes in technology. After all, when one "steals" something, you've got something that you don't have the right to have.

But since using the word "steal" seems to bug you so much, I'm gonna use a different word - "wrong". Breaking the GPL is "wrong". Violating copyright is "wrong". Warezin

Re:steal?

[vadim_t]

Yup, much happier. "Copyright infringement" would be a more correct term, but that's fine.

Corruption of the meaning of language is a powerful and quite evil tactic some people use. Copying software is not the same as stealing somebody's hard disk. It's also ridiculous to say that software piracy, which is essentially illegal sharing of data has something to do with taking over a ship, killing people and raping women.

The same way, the term "terrorist" has been redefined to almost mean "somebody who does an

Re:steal?

[ceejayoz]

Like it not, the definitions of words change. Take piracy [reference.com], for example.

" The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy."

Arguing semantics because you can't come up with a real argument against the other person's point is a pretty good sign you've lost the argument.

Avast, burglar! Stop stealing and pirating that software. Arrr. :-p

Re:steal?

[vadim_t]

As a geek I like arguing about semantics ;-)

Besides, my arguing about semantics can't be a sign of me losing the argument, because the whole argument was about semantics in the first place :-P

Re:steal?

[rking]

Arguing semantics because you can't come up with a real argument against the other person's point is a pretty good sign you've lost the argument.

Doing pretty much anything "because you can't come up with a real argument against the other person's point" would be a pretty good sign that you'd lost the argument. That doesn't mean it's wrong to object to someone's choice of words.

If I say "My dog can talk" and you say "That's not a dog, it's a parrot", that doesn't mean you're losing the argument. In fact

Re:steal?

[Quill_28]

Bull crap.

So I can take your song, book, or designs, publish them and not be stealing from you.

Where do you come up with such nonsense? I'm curious really I am.

I still have my song, book, design.

[Thinkit3]

So it's not stealing. There's a term for those who can't differentiate between a physical object and information. It's called insanity. Come back to the real universe.

Re:I still have my song, book, design.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also a term for dwelling on meaningless differences in definition to hide the lack of a real argument. Its called semantics.

Re:steal?

[Pofy]

Ehh as long as you are just copying those song books and such, no, you would not be stealing, you would be infringing on copyright. Copyright laws would deal with it. On the other hand, stealing is handled by a completely different set of laws that would not be applicable at all here. So no, it would not be stealing.

Private Eye...

[leonbrooks]

...(a UK rag) had an insightful cartoon. A tall-ship captain is being confronted by cutless-waving pirate, who says:

We're going to copy all of your sea-shanties [songs] and not pay you anything

The argument is made: but without a barrier to entry, there wouldn't be so much incentive to produce good music; to which I respond: "Oh, you mean boy bands?" I think supporting artists is a good idea, I think forcing and industrialising that support sucks.

Do we really need a large music "industry"? I think not. I

I wonder...

[sirmikester]

It will be interesting to see what the community does with the source. I think the first thing that will be done is a Homeworld Plus version of the original game, with extra features etc... but with all the great homeworld mods out there, some of them could be made into standalone games that have their own look and feel. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Re:I wonder...

[ceejayoz]

I'm personally hoping for a properly done Star Wars RTS. The Star Wars: New Rebellion [themaw.net] mod for Homeworld was a nice start, but it suffered from not having access to a lot of stuff in the HW engine... it'll be interesting to see what they can do with it now!

Whine whine whine

[nutsy]

Phooey. You have to click through an obnoxious EULA [relic.com] then fill out a nosey registration form [relic.com]-- which doesn't seem to work for me; no matter how many times I filled it out and hit "submit" it kept bouncing me back to the same registration page-- before the mighty lords of the Relic Development Network deign to confer upon you the rank and honour of "RDN access level 1", which may or may not include a single whiff of source code. "Not GPL'd"?! Not only is it not GPL'd, it's total jive. A curious would-be game

Re:Whine whine whine

[ceejayoz]

RDN Access Level 1 is automatically given to everyone who registers - it's the default level. People with Level 1 access have full access to the source code.

I've had a few problems browsing the site with Moz Firebird, worked better in IE... perhaps try that?

Re:Whine whine whine

[renuncln]

Yep, maybe you're right, I'll just run right over to the Microsoft web site and download IE for Linux so I can do that.

Re:Whine whine whine

[ceejayoz]

Well, if you're using Linux you'd have your work cut out for ya to port it anyways...

I'm sure there's a computer somewhere in the surrounding 20 miles that you have access to that runs Windows, especially if you're a gaming enthusiast (and not just trolling the games section here).

Re:Whine whine whine

[renuncln]

I am a compulsive gamer. My point is that if you release source code shouldn't people from other platforms be able to download and possibly port your game for you? This could lead to increased sales of older versions of the game due to the need for people to use the data files that came with the game. My point is that last time I checked IE is made for one OS and at least a certain percentage of dedicated gamers prefers not to run said OS. I buy a fair amount of commercial games for Linux and I own a fa

Re:Whine whine whine

[ceejayoz]

They didn't make the code IE only to piss you off. I know the webmaster of the Relic site and /msg'ed him on IRC - he wasn't sure why Mozilla couldn't download it properly.

You seem to have a bit of an entitlement complex. Relic doesn't have to release the source code, ya know.

Re:Whine whine whine

[merdark]

They didn't HAVE to release anything at all you know. You seem to be angry at them for being kind. Having someone elses source code is not a right, it's a privilege. They are letting you into their house to look around, naturally they ask who you are.

Phooey to your obnoxious and selfish attitude, wanting everything for free.

"No good deed goes unpunished"

[leonbrooks]

Says it all, really. (-:

Don't panic, nutsy, just be patient. HomeWorld was/is sufficiently shiny that someone will port this source to Linux, assisted by the graphics, sounds etc suplied on the MS-Windows games CDs as necessary. Then for the first time, we'll see HomeWorld2 on the XboX.

Re:Whine whine whine

[nutsy]

a. I am perfectly aware that my previous post is whiny. See subject line. :)
b. Just as they didn't have to release anything, I don't have to be impressed by a so-so quasirelease.
c. What I also said, about there being plenty of non-registration/EULA-encumbered game engines available for the hacking, still stands. So nyaah!

Peh? Nothing new

[Neophytus]

any sort of property aside from the source such as graphics or codecs have been stripped

Also released in 1999 was Unreal Tournament, which shipped with it's game engine avaliable to modders out of the box. Its done them no harm at all, they created the levels for the game within the sandbox they created for modders and used the same tools as they shipped modders and more developers should do the same.

Re:Peh? Nothing new

[dj_paulgibbs]

The headers for UT v436 are available - if you want the engine source, I suppose asking Epic nicely (considering the age of the engine) might prove dooable.

As far as UT2003 goes, they are reluctant to give out the headers for various reasons - but if you email them and they think you have a good enough reason, they give you then.

Re:Peh? Nothing new

[Slack3r78]

I'd actually be rather surprised to see the UT engine released openly inside of the next year or so. There are still a number of commercial products (IE: the infamous DNF) based on it that have yet to be released. It'd just kind of suck from a PR standpoint for Epic if they started giving away something a dev house spent a lot of money on before they could even get it out the door - all other things aside.

Re:Peh? Nothing new

[Kyouryuu]

I think you'll find that almost all PC games that have lived well beyond their shelf lives have that one crucial element in common - tools for gamers to make their own levels, mods, and so forth. Aside from quality in general, this appears to be essential in distinguishing a game that lives to a ripe old age from one that gets shipped off to the bargain bin in a couple months.

One example I like to point to is Red Faction. Red Faction is not the greatest FPS of all time and its Geo-Mod is gimmicky at bes

Re:Hmmm

[ceejayoz]

Open Source 3d engines already exist, what's the big deal with this one?

I'd like to see one of these OSS engines that rivals Homeworld... got a link?

Most of the reviewers are of the opinion that Homeworld did set the standard for others to follow, too.

Re:Hmmm

[ikkonoishi]

Damn Straight...

Man that game runs with good detail even on low end graphics cards.

Re:Hmmm

[Kyouryuu]

I couldn't have said it better. Just because an engine is open source does not instantly make it more viable or "better" than a commercial engine you can look at.

What open source needs is not new engines - it needs entire games using those engines with built-in editing and mod features. Show us what can be done. Crystal Space is a few pretty pictures and relies on non-open source software for the most part to build things with it. Cube has no overarching theme that structures it. Show me a comprehens

heh

[rwven]

I cant wait to see what come out of this. the whole homeworld "series" of things has just been extremely impressive. I never liked RTS games until Homeworld and i actually turned up the volume on the music. normally i just turn down the volume. i hope someone does SOMETHING in any case... time will tell

Under what license has the code been released?

[motown]

Not GPL'ed, but pretty nifty all the same.

Agreed. The availability of the source code to Homeworld is really cool, since it's one of the most awesome games ever released. :)

But can anybody here tell us under what kind of license the source code has been released? What are the major differences with the GPL and is it close to any of the generally accepted "Open Source" licenses [opensource.org]?

It seems likely to me that it would be a highly restrictive "non-commercial use only" license, similar to the one under which Vo

Re:Under what license has the code been released?

[hardburn]

Homeworld is made by Relic, not Valve (they both happen to publish under Siera, but are not the same dev house).

I was hoping for porting, too, but this might take a lot of work. Parts of the code that Relic doesn't actualy own aren't included, so you'd need to do some hacking just to get a faithful version of the executable and DLLs. Then you get to wade through all that DirectX crap and convert it to something that actually runs elsewhere.

So this looks like it'll be mostly a thing to help modders, not