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PlayStation (Games) Entertainment Games

Castlevania - Innocence Lamented, 3D Debated 34

Posted by simoniker from the banstead-and-epsom-downs dept.
Thanks to GameSpot for their review of Castlevania:Lament Of Innocence for PlayStation 2, released today in the U.S., as they pronounce this "new 3D installment" to be "a fun, though fairly short and simple, game that marks a promising new beginning for this beloved series." GameSpy also have an interview with the creator, Konami producer Koji Igarashi, but end up judging the title a "very playable but somewhat dull game", and 1UP try a different tack by nominating the Top 10 Belmonts, discussing the "Belmont family of vampire hunters", before ruling similarly to the other reviews, albeit with a more upbeat edge: "Taken on its own terms, Lament of Innocence is a resounding success, and one of the best 3D action games on PS2." Would you prefer the Castlevania series stuck to 2D, or is 3D the only way to truly evolve it?
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Castlevania - Innocence Lamented, 3D Debated More

Castlevania - Innocence Lamented, 3D Debated

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  • ..is that games have gotten far too complex. I remember when Castlevania was a basic adventure game, with crystals and Dracula's claws and holy water and the like. I have thoroughly enjoyed every one I have played, with two exceptions: Castlevania X (IV, the SNES one) and Circle of The Moon. No, I haven't played the 3D N64 games, and I never intended to. They weren't made by the Castlevania core team.

    But I'm worried. I'm worried that Lament won't live up to Symphony or Aria. What is a fan to do?

    • Re:My lament.. (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Castlevania X and Castlevania IV were two different games on the SNES. Castlevania 4 was done by the team that eventually broke off to form Treasure (Radiant Silvergun, Gunstar Heroes), and Castlevania X was a sad port/remake of Rondo of Blood.

      Did you not like both of them, or are you getting the two confused?
      • I didn't like either of them, though the one with the chanadalier and rotating tube (IV?) was still playable. SotN is my favourite, and Aria of Sorrow is a *very* close second. We'll see how Lament plays this weekend, I suppose.

    • Re:My lament.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by pragma_x ( 644215 )
      I couldn't agree more.

      I'm worried that Lament won't live up to Symphony or Aria.

      IMHO, massive portions of most people's entire game libraries fail to live up to Symphony where I'm concerned. That game still stands as the high-water mark for what a 2d adventure/platformer should be like.

      If lament fails to live up to the franchise name, Konami should seriously re-visit Symphony and use it as a template for their next Castlevania title.
    • What didn't you like about Circle of the Moon? I personally thought it was one of the best Castlevanias.

      Did you actually like Harmony of Dissonance? I thought that was a terrible game. The enemies were terribly easy; especially the bosses. The only challenge in that game was figuring out where to go. Whenever you got a new key or a new ability, the game gave you no indication of what it does. How was I supposed to know that a Lizard Tail lets me slide? Explored randomly for 10 minutes after that before I a
      • I didn't like the controls. I didn't like the card system. I didn't like the fact I couldn't see my fucking character on the screen.
        • I thought it was a very good game. However, I agree with the complaint about seeing what was going on. This game was not portable. I only played it at home in a spot in the room where the lighting was perfect. I also agree that the cards were stupid. I never fully got what was going on there. However, in spite of these minor flaws, I still thought it was a lot of fun. What was wrong with the controls?
          • I was never really able to get the whipping/jumping quite right. It's the classic Castlevania 'lead boots syndrome'. Leon has the same problem in Lament, but it is a bit easier to deal with there (air whip move)
      • Also, I never played Harmony of Dissonance. Thanks for the warning (though I did play it on a gba emulator, and it seemed boring)

    • I bought the game today, btw. It is, so far, very worth the wait. The gameplay is 3D, but a lot of the fighting takes place on the ground. I was hoping the environment would be more interactive, ala Devil May Cry (which had its own long list of issues) but we can't win them all. I'm only 1/2 of the way through the first section (Chamber of Sacred Remains) and already the rooms are proving to be quite a challenge. This should be a very good game to follow through on.

      Also, Japanese language sound. Very nice.

  • 2d isn't dead yet (Score:4, Insightful)

    by handsomepete ( 561396 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @05:59AM (#7279524) Journal
    Or at least it shouldn't be. Maybe everyone just wants to run around in a 3d environment doing combos judged on style. If that's the case and I'm in the minority, I'm fine with that. When I loaded up Super Mario Sunshine for the first time and got to the game choosing screen (with Mario on a 2d field and jumping up to hit a block with your game choice), I found that that's the game I wanted to play - the good looking 2d side scroller where I jump up and hit blocks. Maybe get an invincibility star or something once in a while.

    The old formulas aren't all played out. Switching to 3d will not necessarily make things fresh and exciting and instantly subject the game to critical acclaim. That's why the GBA Castlevania games, even when releasing a new one every year, still get good reviews - they're good games in a 2d environment that are fun and allow some freedom and exploration. It's still all about gameplay and looking good, not the ability to move in 10 different directions.
    • I have been telling people since mario sunshine came out that the loading screens were exactly what I am looking for in a new mario game.
    • The GBA Castlevania games are largely getting good reviews because there isn't much like them being produced.

      If you notice, each time a new one comes, the review starts by complaining about a lot of really bad negatives about the previous game. Things that should've really hurt the review score (i.e. Harmony of Dissonance's complete lack of difficulty, bad music, and the amount of time you spend wandering aimlessly because whenever you get an item that allows you to progress further, the game gives you no

  • 2D vs. 3D (Score:3, Insightful)

    by neostorm ( 462848 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @06:02AM (#7279532)
    Personally I'll always prefer the 2D games, and I'd love to see them carry on development for that style as well. However, eventually the series has to find it's way (back) to 3D, like it or not I suppose. Castlevanis has always meant a unique and fun experience to me. This series has a fantastic style and feeling to it that's all it's own.
    I would love to see Konami keep that unique sensation when moving to 3D. Unfortunately I had bad feelings about this new game from the first few screenshots. The graphics aren't looking too hot, and I personally don't like the centralized level structure they used. I also don't want to do *combos* with my whip. I'm pretty sick of combos in games. If they had a convincingly elastic whip that you could use to wrap around enemies heads and throw them, or pop the skulls right off of the skeletons, that would be tons more fun as well as adding something unique back into the franchise. This outing seems to have lost a lot of the arcade goodness that has made the series so much fun.

    • I actually feel the exact same way. I prefer the detailed pixelation of WarCraft II to the 3D crap of WarCraft II.
      • Uh, the latter is supposed to be WarCraft III. Where's my farking coffee...
      • My big beef with 3D games on console is the lack of a mouse...analog sticks and direction pads don't allow for the varying rates of turning that a mouse does...

        As for Warcraft III, I disliked the fact that the field of view was so small. I prefer the Starcraft scale much much more.

  • Just a reminder (Score:2, Informative)

    by darkmayo ( 251580 )
    This is not the first foray into the 3d world for the francise.. The castlevania on the n64 was the first to break that wall.... will unfortunately poor results (imo)
    • I'm not quite sure its the wall that was broken in that game...
      The N64 incarnation of Castlvania sucked really bad, I was so glad I had rented it first. The perspective just sucked for what you were doing in that game, worse yet, since the monsters seemed to be forever re-spawning, you usually ended up getting hit from behind constantly. Personally, I think that there is just too much emphasis on 3d graphics in gaming at this point. The developers are taking a perfectly good title and cranking out a rea

  • 2D is preferred but 3D is worth a try (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sknja ( 196640 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:13AM (#7279751)
    As a big Castlevania fan, I had always hoped for a ps2 version. It would be nice to have something like Contra - Shattered Soldiers, a 2D side scroll with 3D like characters and environments.

    When I heard it was going to be 3D I too had my doubts (and still will until I pick it up this morning). But I am willing to give it a try. Considering Konami producer Koji Igarash had his hand in it.

    I think it will live up to one of the best 3D action games on the ps2, but it will be a bit tougher to live up to the Castlevania name, especially with the new GBA versions. Hell it already has Japanese voices which is a good first step in my book. Then again I think all Japanese originated games should have the original Japanese audio.

    ato ni ji can gurai lament o kaemasu!

  • Screw the 3rd dimension... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:28AM (#7279820) Homepage Journal
    Let's skip to the 4th! Go hypercubes!
  • I think that they should have tried something along the lines of Strider 2.. With nice Hi-res sprites (or even 3d Models) on 3D backgrounds, but it's still a side scrolling action fest along the lines of Symphony of the Night.. Just my 2cents..

  • And now the 3d advocate... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ok, dont get me wrong, I love 2d games actually I think SOTN is probably the best game ever for the PSX, but all games staying 2d forever? thats just wrong. There are a great number of experiences that just cant be experienced in 2d: first person view, hiding and stalking in any direction, side stepping, multi tiered buildings, multi layered fights (fighting in 360 degrees) heck not even Diablo, Starcraft and RE would have been possible without 3d perspectives.

    Its true: Platform games are HARDER to pla
  • This is a topic of which I am thouroughly interested. I think there is definitely something to be said about your classic side-scroller games like super mario brothers, contra, and castlevania. Taking these games into the realm of 3D, and all the benefits therein, does not mean you have to take away the all important side-scrolling aspect though. The latest smash brothers game is a good example of what I'm talking about. Granted the genre of that particular game does not allow it much extension into the

    • If the game was focused on story moreso than gameplay and using camera angles and lighting to set moods and create drama, then there is a good reason to implement a free-roaming environment.

      ... if storyline and plot aren't incredibly key to your game's entertainment factor, you may want to consider making the game into a side-scroller, whether it be in 3D or 2D.

      I have to call fallacy on that one.

      Just because a game is focused on story doesn't mean that it has to be 3D, or even top-down 2D for that matt

  • So they missed the moon..... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by August_zero ( 654282 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @02:35PM (#7283529)
    I think the biggest thing this game has against it, is the astounding level of quality that Symphony of the Night possesed, and the fact that the 3 post SOTN gameboy castlevanias have all more or less followed it's apporoach (metroidesque) almost to the point of remake.

    Now I would not say that Lament is "the bestest castlevania ever!" nor would I so far even consider it one of the top five installments of the series, but I am thus far very happy with it. It feels like a castlevania game, it looks good, the controls are solid, the bosses and enemy design are well done, and while I miss the more open ended style exploration of the latest installments, its still by all standards a really good game. I may also the only person that says this, but i still miss some of the jumping and instant death of the old school chapters.

    What fills me with the greatest hope, is that there will be some sequels, and hopefully they will incorporate some of the refinement and artistry of the later 2d castlevanias. For a first go in 3d since the ummmm lets just skip the N64 sequels, its a solid effort and a worthwhile pick up for any fan.
  • The main character's name is *Leon*.

    "Leon Belmont...tax accountant by day, vampire hunter by night."

    -Carolyn

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