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GameCube (Games) Portables (Games) Entertainment Games

Nintendo Comment On Alleged Problems 111

Posted by simoniker from the more-to-life-than-stereotypes dept.
Thanks to GMR Magazine for their feature interviewing Nintendo executives about alleged issues with their console strategy, as "a sentiment spreading throughout the industry holds that Nintendo is marching its own way right out of the home-console business." Perrin Kaplan of Nintendo suggests there are three ways to look at her company's position: "One would be how we are doing financially, and we're clearly No. 1. Second, where are we perceptionwise, and we suffer being third there. And then the third is the actual reality of the market share, and I'd say that we're No. 2 worldwide." She also takes Xbox to task, suggesting Microsoft's console may be too adult-oriented: "They chose to pick a certain segment of the demographic, and Microsoft is having a heck of a time expanding out of that. That's their niche, the older guy."
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Nintendo Comment On Alleged Problems More

Nintendo Comment On Alleged Problems

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  • Sounds right to me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by semprebon ( 61779 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @06:39AM (#7298901) Homepage
    When we got a console for our kids, we picked GameCube over XBox for because GameCube seemed to have more kid-friendly games, so there is some truth in what he says.

    On the other hand, being percived as more mature can't hurt XBox sales in the long run as those kids get older.

    • Re:Sounds right to me (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jrc313 ( 168973 )
      But like he says - there are always kids turning six.
    • Agreed. A coworker recently decided he was going to get a game console for his kids, so he asked which one would have a library more geared towards non-adult titles. My response was along the lines of "Xbox is mostly adult, PS2 straddles the line, and GameCube is mostly kids. Plus, the GameCube is only $99 right now."

      That and a demo of Rebel Strike pretty much sealed the deal for him.

      However, at home, my Xbox gets the most play of any of my consoles, because it has the games I enjoy most.
      • However, a strong perception that the Game Cube is the 'kiddie console' will drive away anybody 8 years or older by droves.

        • Re:Sounds right to me (Score:3, Insightful)

          by k_187 ( 61692 )
          NO, it will drive away the 8-17 or so year-olds. The only people that care about a console being perceived as "kiddie" are the ones that care about themselves being perceived as "kiddie" i.e. mostly teenage boys first being introduced to testosterone. Sony has this market locked up I'd say. In my personal opinion, until the PSP becomes non-vaporware, Nintendo doesn't need to worry about growing beyond this "kiddie" niche. There will always be the people that don't care (which is a larger portion than

          • Game consoles are simply entertainment. Entertainment needs to be marketed. When the louder party shouts, everyone listens. Hence Playstation 2's wild success--it doesn't have the best graphics or gameplay, but it is far, far overhyped.

            Sooner or later the most-hyped non-specifically-kiddie console is going to win. This is very bad for Nintendo.

            I am a Nintendo fanboy, and I am extremely ashamed to write this post.

          • Ah, you sum up the problems I was having with Nintendo's "kiddie" label well: I personally don't care if it's a "children's" console: it's got some great games for it. Then again, I'm 23, and out of the magical age where the perception of something as "kiddie" matters.
    • When we got a console for our kids, we picked GameCube over XBox for because GameCube seemed to have more kid-friendly games, so there is some truth in what he says.

      On the other hand, being percived as more mature can't hurt XBox sales in the long run as those kids get older.

      And then Sony takes your kids in a couple of years and holds onto them forever because they've chosen not to deal with this "brand identity" crap and allow games that kids (Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper), adults (
    • I would have picked a PS2 because of the much larger variety and quality of software choices for younger kids(I know, I own the other systems). The prices for these game are less too, as most titles can be had for $19.99 a piece.

  • Where's the new stuff? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by h0mer ( 181006 )
    One thing that I think hurts Nintendo tremendously is their lack of creativity lately. How many original characters have come out of them recently, ignoring throwaway Mario Party/Kart/Golf/Tennis characters like Waluigi?

    I think they need to create some sort of "adult" character. The game doesn't have to have tons of blood and carjackings and other GTA stuff, just a character that doesn't look like a cartoon. There is Samus, but yet again that character is about 15 years old at this point.

    You would think N

    • Re:Where's the new stuff? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gr33nNight ( 679837 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @07:53AM (#7299249)
      Thats why they have 2nd parties like the creaters fo Eternal Darkness. That game owns BTW, and you can find it for $15 now.
      • I bought that the day it came out, and it's a great game. But you're missing my point, it's not marketable. That's why it didn't sell nearly as well as it should've.
        • Now you're going in circles. The reason that Nintendo is making games using established characters is that they *are* marketable. People are buying the latest Zelda and the latest Metroid *because* we know the characters and we know the gameplay and we know that we'll probably like the new one too. The issue of sequels and licensed properties goes beyond Nintendo, actually. It's something that the whole industry is talking about a lot. Some people are arguing that sequels stifle creativity, others are argui
          • Now you're going in circles. The reason that Nintendo is making games using established characters is that they *are* marketable.

            The point I think the earlier poster was trying to make was that Nintendo has stopped making mascots/characters that could be marketable in the future. Resting on their laurels and all that... Even companies like Disney, who have a large stable of classic characters like Mickey and Donald under perpetual copyright protection, continue to churn out new characters like Ariel and

            • Simba and Ariel are ~ a decade old. Mickey and Donald don't bring in much money. Disney's cash cow is... Winnie the Pooh and the gang from the hundred acre woods.

              Look at Disney's most recent attempts at new character creation: mulan, pocahontas, Hercules. Haven't seen many of those toys except at the release of the respective movies.

              Disney's real profitability comes from buying senators to preserve Mickey and Donald, and lawsuits against milne's family. Oh, and outright theft in the case of Kimba...err...
              • Look at Disney's most recent attempts at new character creation: mulan, pocahontas, Hercules. Haven't seen many of those toys except at the release of the respective movies.

                Yes, but Disney was still trying. (Though, I'll admit that they've been outsourcing to Pixar lately.) It can be argued that Nintendo isn't anymore.

                Mickey and Donald don't bring in much money. .. Disney's real profitability comes from buying senators to preserve Mickey and Donald.

                Why preserve Mickey & Co. if they still aren't

    • You would think Nintendo could create another awesome franchise, especially after all this time.

      Underestimate Animal Crossing at your peril.

  • Nintendo isn't clueless after all (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cdneng2 ( 695646 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @07:49AM (#7299221)
    Perrin's pretty much hit the nail on the head on Nintendo's position in the console wars. It would seem that Nintendo's future looks much brighter for the holiday season... Let's see... #1 selling console in the United States right now, at $99. They probably have the largest number of anticipated games coming out for Xmas.... They're probably the "second" console of choice for gamers who want more then one console... plus they've got a stranglehold as being the "family" friendly game console.
    Microsoft has been and will always be losing money on Xbox. Sony is losing profit in hardware sales because their console sales have eroded. Nintendo's has increased.
    MSFT's marketing machine in North America is much more refined then even Sony's is. However, they also spent millions more then anyone else has in marketing (just because Bill can). Considering that Nintendo spends a fraction of MSFT's marketing cost promoting the Xbox, Nintendo's market cost per console sales makes it easier to sell the Cube at $99.
    Also, Nintendo is in a nice niche right now. It doesn't need to compete for the "older" gamers. Why spend the marketing money? Let MSFT and Sony spend millions in marketing to slug it out for what's left of a saturated "older" gamer market.
    • They probably have the largest number of anticipated games coming out for Xmas

      Well, maybe the largest number of games you are anticipating. People forget that this isn't an objective business when talking about game or console quality. Everyone's opinion varies. Personally, there's only one game that I see in the next year coming out for my GC that's worth buying, and that's the next Zelda. The only marquee title for GC exclusively this holiday that I know if is Mario Kart, and it's just not my speed. Ma
      • Personally, there's only one game that I see in the next year coming out for my GC that's worth buying, and that's the next Zelda. The only marquee title for GC exclusively this holiday that I know if is Mario Kart, and it's just not my speed. May be a great game, but not my thing.

        Personally, I see a lot more stuff coming out for xbox this season that appeals to me. Things like Rainbow 6, Counterstrike, Deus Ex 2 (which looks AMAZING), Crimson Skies, etc. The rest of the games I see coming out that interes
        • I can see where you're coming from. There are a lot of titles out there coming out that I just don't see the allure of. The FF games, for example, just never did anything for me. No RPG ever did, actually, until I recently place KOTOR (though the star wars factor probably helped me there). I think that it's interesting to think about what kinds of games a console has and to see how that affects people's opinions of them. For example, PS2 is heavy on the Japanese RPGs. If I were a big fan of those games, I'd
          • I think that it's interesting to think about what kinds of games a console has and to see how that affects people's opinions of them. For example, PS2 is heavy on the Japanese RPGs. If I were a big fan of those games, I'd clearly prefer that system. Personally, I like the FPS games, especially when they're done well. That's why I like my xbox. The closest I get to RPGs are Zelda-type games, and that's why I have my GameCube.

            You see, I love Japanese RPGs, but since I rarely have large blocks of play time
        • Of course, many of my Cube titles are sequels of games from previous Nintendo consoles, and I really can't say that bothers me much. Perhaps a big part of it is simply that I skipped the last 2 of Nintendo's consoles and really missed a lot of the great gameplay from their titles.

          I think that is probably exactly what the difference is between 'you' and the 'average gamer'. I enjoyed my N64, but I got sick of not having enough game variety. Remakes of the games I already played don't sell me on a system, e

  • and the problem is? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by li99sh79 ( 678891 ) <sam@cosmic-hippo.COWorg minus herbivore> on Friday October 24, 2003 @08:23AM (#7299415) Homepage Journal
    "They chose to pick a certain segment of the demographic, and Microsoft is having a heck of a time expanding out of that. That's their niche, the older guy."

    uhm, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't "older" guys (and when I say older I'm talking twenties and thirties) the ones with the most disposable income and the time to actually play games? It seems to me that Microsoft is, or is trying to at least, steal away the "Nintendo" generation. The kids who grew up playing NES and SNES. Worked with me at least. It might be a niche, but it's a hell of a niche to have cornered.

    -sam

    • Re:and the problem is? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by irix ( 22687 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @09:21AM (#7299912) Journal

      but aren't "older" guys (and when I say older I'm talking twenties and thirties) the ones with the most disposable income and the time to actually play games?

      No.

      I might have the money, but I have work and family commitments now - I'm lucky to get in a few hours of gaming (GameCube or PC) each week. And I did grow up playing a lot of NES and SNES, so I'm partail to the big N.

      Right now with my limited spare time I prefer the ability to play a few extremenly high quality titles then a lot of mediocre ones - so I own a GameCube rather than an XBox.

      • I might have the money, but I have work and family commitments now - I'm lucky to get in a few hours of gaming (GameCube or PC) each week. And I did grow up playing a lot of NES and SNES, so I'm partail to the big N.

        I knew I should of added single. I come home from work and will quite happily drop down on the couch and play some Kotor, or Madden, or SSX Tricky, or what have you to unwind. Of course I haven't fired up the ole Xbox in a couple of weeks, but that's mostly because Kotor is a bit played out

        • When my girlfriend is working (she just recently had back surgery, so she's not been working for 3 weeks) I have plenty of free time to play games. I find that most of it is spent playing Cube and PS1 games, even though I have the PS2, GC, XBox, and DC. I'm slowly picking up most of the remakes and sequels to the DC games I already have so that the DC can go into the closet for a while.

          I think I might still have more PS2 games than Cube games, but it's fairly close, and I've had the Cube significantly les
        • Well, I break your mold: I'm 30 and married and an Xbox has yet to darken my door, but my wife and I bought the GC while we were on our honeymoon.

          It comes down to the fact that Xbox has two good exclusive games: Halo and KOTOR, and now Halo will be outdone by its PC and Mac versions...so that leaves KOTOR. So, for someone like me (who has eight consoles and finds time to play every other day or so), a console that only has one good exclusive game is not going to find a space near my TV.

          If Shenmue III i

    • No. Teens have more disposable income. They don't have mortgage, rent, car payments, etc. They have parents who feel guilty for not spending enough time with them, so they have large allowances.

      • If teens have more disposable income than I do (with rent, car payment, car insurance, credit card debt, electric, phone), then there's something seriously wrong with their parents. How many parents even have enough money to throw at their teens like that in the first place (hell, I only have a girlfriend, no kids to deal with). I got a whole $5 a week when I was a teenager, and I spent absolutely nothing on games (I'd get my parents to get them for XMas or my birthday, so I'd have maybe 2 or 3 games a year
        • You and the AC who replied to me both use anecdotal evidence. While I don't have any links available, it has often been reported that teens, as a group, have a phenomenal amount of disposable income. There are several reasons.

          First, there are more teen members than of the 20-30ish demographic. Second, their income is nearly 100% disposable. You can't count your rent, food, etc, as disposable income, as it isn't. The amount you spend on video games, big screen TV, etc. is disposable.

          In your comment, you hi
          • First, there are more teen members than of the 20-30ish demographic. Second, their income is nearly 100% disposable. You can't count your rent, food, etc, as disposable income, as it isn't. The amount you spend on video games, big screen TV, etc. is disposable.

            You're right, I can't count those things, which is why I mentioned them. When it comes down to it, I have about $300-400/ pay check in disposable income, which I readily admit is probably significantly higher than average for my age, although a good

  • Sheesh, modern journalism sucks (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What a slanted article. At every point in the article that was NOT part of the interview with Kaplan, the author writes as if it is a foregone conclusion that the most profitable games company, with the only increasing user base, is doomed.

    In reality, compared to Microsoft's perpetual financial hemorrhages in this market and lack of ability to turn their single major innovation (online gaming) into a PS2-beating advantage, and compared to Sony's stagnant sales, Nintendo is smelling like roses right now.
  • When Nintendo uses the phrase "family friendly", why does it seem to mean uber cute (pikmin, animal crossing, any mario game, pokemon, etc)?

    A game like Mario Golf was a decent game, but I developed cavities from all the bouncy/cute/happy characters.

    I don't think Nintendo has to start making "adult" games, but there has to be a middle ground between "It'sa me!" and "Die you bitch!" I think Viewtiful Joe is a good example of a game that looks good, is pretty cool, is fun to play, and doesn't have anyth
    • This is a good point. If Nintendo had just backed off the cute factor just a little bit on Mario Golf they would've had much better sales figures. It wouldn't have to be Tiger Woods realistic, but maybe in between like Hot Shots Golf.

      Nintendo sometimes seems to forget that there is a line between cute enough to be appealing to all ages but not embarrassing and cute enough that many adults will feel stupid playing the game. They sometimes cross this line.
  • If they are doing so well, why do they keep explaining themselves?

    Apple hasn't had to give a bunch of interviews about why iTunes and iTMS is being perceived as unsuccessful.
    Sony doesn't have to give a bunch of interviews about the PS2's perceived failure.
    EA isn't out talking to everyone about the perceived poor reception of Madden '04.

    Of course they have had to explain themselves for EA.com plenty of times. Quite the parallel I'd say.

    People and companies don't explain themselves unless they have explai
    • If they didn't have explaining to do, they wouldn't be doing these interviews. Period.

      I don't agree - I think this latest wave of Nintendo-bashing is the very reason they're trying to get their side of the story out. Granted, they had a slow start and now with 3 successful consoles to develop games for that take upwards of 2 years to complete, some licensees are jumping off the big N's ship. But Nintendo is far from out of the game and is actually in a very strong position to come back IMO. As long as
    • If they are doing so well, why do they keep explaining themselves?

      1) People keep asking the same questions, so they give them answers.
      2) They have to put something out, or better developers will start to wonder if they have a plan to handle the perceived issues, and bail out as well.

      Apple hasn't had to give a bunch of interviews about why iTunes and iTMS is being perceived as unsuccessful.

      That's right, because they released iTunes as 'the best Windows application ever', and the press sucked their ass

    • That's a bit of circular logic (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday October 24, 2003 @03:36PM (#7304105) Homepage
      You don't work much in public entertainment, do you?

      Apple hasn't had to give a bunch of interviews about why iTunes and iTMS is being perceived as unsuccessful.

      No, but Apple has had to give interviews constantly since 1995 to explain that they are doing fine financially and any system you purchase from them will be supported for years to come.

      It's a matter of public perception. Why spend X many dollars on a system if it is going under? That makes it useless. But if Billy says that Nintendo is going under because they don't have GTA and Microsoft does, and Nintendo says nothing, it must be true. Of course, by your logic if Nintendo starts bringing out pieces of paper with lots of impressive numbers on it, they must be lying.

      People and companies don't explain themselves unless they have explaining to do. I love how they always talk about worldwide terms on the Nintendo side. I don't live worldwide, I live in the US. EA, Activision, THQ, Take-Two, these are not worldwide companies and don't care about the Gamecube's success or failure in Japan. They want consoles in the houses in the US and Europe and Nintendo just isn't delivering.

      I'd like to mention here that Activision was extatic about the sales reception our game recieved in Korea, and were looking to release in more territories there. Publishers care about selling games, not about whom they sell them to. Of course, publishers tend to specialize in their own region because that's where they're drawing their talent pool from. If what you want are FPS Computer Games, then westernized companies are the way to go. However, you're ignoring the more console-centric Japanese developers such as Konami, Treasure, Sega, Namco, Capcom, etc, whom any console company also needs to placate.

      While you may not live worldwide, they do sell worldwide. And worldwide numbers should matter to gamers buying a system: Sega's systems have routinely tanked in the US, but thanks to sales in Japan US gamers were still treated to Shenmue, several legendary Treasure shooters, great incarnations of Street Fighter, and many others. Even the Sega CD got Lunar 1 and 2 as well as some of Core's finest work. The Jaguar tanked everywhere: and games were completely nonexistent.

      If you want to be a small-town gamer and bury your head in the American Sand, that's fine. Eidos et. al has some Legacy of Kain love stored up for you. But you will be missing out on the industry's best fighters, RPG's, twitch arcade games, racers, and many other underrepresented genres.

      Nintendo does these interviews to change public perception. Saying that attempting to change public perception automatically validates that perception is as convienient an oversimplification as saying that because you live in America you automatically don't have to care about what happens abroad. If you don't want to have to think about the world around you, that's your prerogative. But don't expect your perceptions to translate to that of EA, Activision, and the rest of the western producers.

  • maybe the old purple ones, but I've got a black Cube. It sits on top of one of my JBLs, next to the big Mitsubishi HDTV which has all the stereo components on it. The only thing that looks out of place is the grey on the front of the console and on the Wavebird reciever in one of the game ports, and that mostly blends in anyways. I would say my cube looks just as at home in my living room as the DVD player.
  • I, for one, wish to continue living in a video gaming market where three consoles compete and stay healthy.

    The competition has done wonders. Microsoft has really pushed Sony. The system price wars have been great. The Xbox brought the hard drive and realized the kind of online gaming that the Dreamcast dreamed of. Sony's kind of scrambled to keep up on both fronts, but you can be damn sure the PS3 (as will every console from now on) will both have a nice hard drive and a cohesive online gaming plan - no m

  • Nintendo's blunder with the Gamecube can be pretty much summed up by the lack of any of it's flagship titles at launch.

    Mario Sunshine and Zelda were just too little, to late. The PS2 may have been in the same boat, but they had the advantage of backwards-compatibility, so it wasn't crucial that a FF or Gran Turismo (I can't remember if that was launch or not) weren't available at launch. But what really gave them the edge was the success of GTA. Xbox did well with Halo, but it's been slow to build. But Xbo
  • There is no Playstation or Xbox game which made me feel the way I did when playing Zelda: WW or Ocarina of Time, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Smash Bros., Mario Kart, and Star Fox....the point is that nintendo focuses on quality rather than quantity, "fun-factor" rather than graphics....somthing that Sony and Microsoft games sorely lack...when is the last time you felt as satisfied as satisfied with a game as you did with Zelda: Ocarina of Time?
  • Maybe Sony might have something to say about that? Also, Nintendo is being very "sour grape"-ish about online because they were late to the party.

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