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PlayStation (Games) XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

On Game Consoles As Multimedia Devices 60

Posted by simoniker from the dvd-pvr-cd-gaming-behemoth dept.
Thanks to GamesAreFun for their editorial discussing whether the next generation of consoles should have multimedia capabilities, such as DVD playing and TiVo-like functionality, or whether the manufacturers should stick with "a console that just plays games." The author argues that these extra features "...add to the overall cost in the end [through licensing and production costs], to both the manufacturers and to consumers (especially at the launch of the consoles)", suggests that there's "more to worry about insofar as breaking down of moving parts", and concludes, definitively: "Personally, all I want is a dedicated gaming machine."
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On Game Consoles As Multimedia Devices More

On Game Consoles As Multimedia Devices

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  • it seems the corporations want to all make one product that does everything. PDA/Phone, game console/DVR/DVD and now that phone/GB. I have a Clie and a Phone. I would never want to hold my clie up to my ear. Why can't these big wigs in marketing just realize people want individual products that do their job well.

    The only exception I make to this is when products have to interact. Things like the DirecTivo for example. In that case, it makes life easier as you don't have to interface two components.
    • Why can't these big wigs in marketing just realize people want individual products that do their job well.

      Because that's not what people want... people want convenience generally above all else. Why carry around a PDA, digital camera and a cell phone when you can get a cell phone that doubles (triples?) as a PDA and a camera?

      • Because it only costs $5 less than all 3 and if one goes out you've just lost all 3 devices. Besides that it makes a for a big clunky device that is as cheap a POS as a multifunction printer is. Multi-function printers are a bad idea, and so are these.
        • Because it only costs $5 less than all 3 and if one goes out you've just lost all 3 devices.

          By the same logic, you shouldn't use a single wallet, you should keep your credit cards, cash, ATM cards, and grocery store Shoppers Club cards in separate wallets. After all, if everything's in a single wallet and you lose it or it gets stolen, you're screwed.

          • A wallet is a single device that exists for one purpose.

            A credit card is as well, it's more like consolidating all your creditcards into one card with 1/3 of the total credit-limit, all your debit cards into the same card but it costs you two dollars for every dollar you spend, all your grocery cards into that one card but it's only good for 3 uses, and all your gas cards into it, but they only work on tuesdays.

            Now you have one card, it doesn't work NEARLY as well as the individual cards did, but hey it'
    • "it seems the corporations want to all make one product that does everything."

      It seems people want to buy that stuff. Interesting coincidence.
  • Nintendo tried this, and it really hurt their sales at the beginning, when DVD players were expensive.

    I know a number of people who helped justify the cost of their playstation 2 in part because it had a DVD player.

    Now, in reality I think that this theory is correct. If you want a gaming machine get one. If you want a DVD player get one. Dunno.

    Of course Nintendo's the only one making any money on hardware sales, so go figure.

    • "Now, in reality I think that this theory is correct. If you want a gaming machine get one. If you want a DVD player get one. Dunno." But why do that when you want both? You can buy a console and get a DVD player included "free". It's just some extra code to play the DVDs. All the hardware is already there.
      • For the same reason that I don't buy one of those stupid Fax/Scanner/Printer deals either.

        You end up with a machine that can do all three but can't do any of them that well.

        I'm not willing to sacrifice on quality and end up with something that's the jack of all trades and king of none.

        • Well put.

          When people buy game consoles, they think "oh it's this and this as well", so it seems like a better deal... and although it seems like this would have a factor in decision making, I really don't think these extras matter in the long run.

          Reasoning? The games make the console. Doesn't matter how great the console is, as long as the good games (read: popular) are there, then that's the console that'll sell the most. It's just the early crowd that might be swayed by an extra feature or two, a month

        • Your argument would carry more weight if the Playstation and/or Xbox were bad for playing game. The truth is that they're both quite good and there are many excellent games that can be enjoyed on them - games that wouldn't have been possible on previous platforms. Even the DVD playing aspects of the two systems are comparable with inexpensive standalone DVD players (apart from progressive scan, and with the latest firmware, the Playstation is actually better than many cheap standalones).

          In other words:

          • Neither the PS2 nor the xbox are comparable to stand alone dvds for one reason alone: noise. I don't know how current versions are in this aspect but my 2 year old ps2 and 1 year old xbox both make an unacceptably high fan noise when on. You might not care about that when you're playing games (it actually drives me crazy, but anyway), but even a 50EUR stand-alone player is much, much better.
            • >You might not care about that when you're playing games

              Don't care about it ever myself. I've never heard a peep out of my gaming systems and have trouble believing HDs make noise. Maybe all the people who make a big deal out of this stuff are super sensitive crack addicts or something?
    • Nintendo is not making money on hardware.
      • If they're not making money then they're breaking even.

        The only time Nintendo has ever lost money on hardware was the first shipment of GameCubes, and it was a single digit loss.

      • According to them they are (Score:4, Informative)

        by Alcimedes ( 398213 ) on Saturday November 01, 2003 @01:20AM (#7365476)
        From this interview:

        Featured on /. [gmrmagazine.com]

        This perceived financial advantage over Microsoft--based on the belief that it will never make a profit on Xbox--seems to be the reason Nintendo is so confident that its conservative and efficient business model will keep it alive in the never-ending console war. "We're very well run that way," Kaplan explains. "We're always making a profit on our hardware; we don't just live to make profit on the software.
    • I dont know how many times this fact needs to be repeated, but NOBODY 'dumped' consoles to the market (ie. took an initial loss on the hardware) before the XBox. And the only reason the XBox is being dumped is because they arent recouping the R and D costs; thus, the price just takes hardware costs into consideration. Since the cost to make is falling, but the sale price is remaining the same, they will eventaully recoup all the costs; it just isnt being included on the front end (a risky gamble by MS, si
  • I bought my PS2, over the competition, because it doubled as a DVD player out of the box.

  • My Expirances (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Friday October 31, 2003 @11:51PM (#7365255) Homepage
    I bought a PS2 the day it came out, and I play it to this day (I was playing SSX3 not 5 minutes ago, great game). Once I bought it, not only did it serve as my PS1 and PS2 (I sold my PS1 shortly after buying it), but it served as my DVD player. I still use it as a DVD player to this day. I'm GLAD it had the functionality.

    If I was on the fence of buying a console would having a DVD player built in push me over? Maybe if I didn't have one. If I didn't really want an X-Box and didn't have a DVD player, would having it be able to play DVDs make me more interested in buying it? No, I don't think so.

    So basically, I think it's good to have the DVD paying aspect, but it doesn't effect my purchasing (other than owning a PS2 has stopped me from buying a "real" DVD player becasue I don't need one). I like the way the PS2 did it better than the X-Box. With the PS2 it was free, no $30 extra (I later bought the PS2 remote when it was onsale for $10 just for convience sake).

    As for the extra costs, what extra costs? Both the PS2 and X-Box have built in hardware MPEG2 decoders that games can use, and store data on DVDs so they both have DVD drives. All they had to do was add a little piece of software and get it licensed. I personally doubt that the licensing fee added anything significant to the cost of my PS2 or X-Box, maybe $1 at most.

    Now as for TiVo functionality, that would be interesting too, but I don't think it would push me over the fence. Neither would playing MP3s (although that would be very nice) or anything else. Before I bought a TiVo, I might have used the feature (like I used to use my VCR to record programs that I couldn't watch) but it wouldn't make a big difference (I had that VCR after all). Now that I HAVE a TiVo it means even less to me.

    I guess, in summary, these "extra" features won't get me to buy the device, but it might make me like it more or use it more (I'm very fond of my PS2, because I use it so often for DVDs).

    And while this all may seem new, is it? We've seen the various CD consoles (Saturn, SegaCD, PS, etc) play audio CDs, and some (like the white Asian PS) could play VCDs too. There are examples of previous consoles that have added things in, and I doubt it makes any difference in sales.

    To prove my point: How many of you who didn't own a Dreamcast bought ne to use as a web-browser and game machine? No one? That's what I thought. You bought your DC for the games (or, as /.ers, to run Linux/BSD :)

    • Mys PS2 is my DVD player, not just because I bought one before I bought a stand-alone player, but because I knew that all I needed was DVD Region X and I'd be able to play DVDs from all regions. The issue is more complicated than just whether or not the device has the broad functionality you want, but the specific functions you want. DRM could easily kill TIVO-like functionality in the next generation of games consoles, adding to the price but not to the sales.

    • Re:My Expirances (sic) (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Saturday November 01, 2003 @05:21AM (#7365921) Homepage
      "I like the way the PS2 did it better than the X-Box. With the PS2 it was free, no $30 extra (I later bought the PS2 remote when it was onsale for $10 just for convience sake)."

      You paid for that feature. It's just that you paid by not having an 8gb HD in your system. The dongle that plugs into the Xbox is not just an IR sensor, it's the complete DVD playback program. The features in it are more complete than the "console only" features in a PS2. The PS2 requires you spend that same US$ 30 on a memory card that's 8megabytes in size, rather than a nice 8gigabyte HD. Failing to acknowledge this is just deluding yourself.

      "I personally doubt that the licensing fee added anything significant to the cost of my PS2 or X-Box, maybe $1 at most."

      On the Xbox, maybe, but on the PS2, wrong. The DVD CCA licence is more than US$ 1 -- you're deluding yourself.

      There are plenty of people who won't acknowledge that the GameCube is a viable console choice because it won't play DVDs. Even though it's 110$ cheaper than PS2 or Xbox, and you can buy for 60$ a superior DVD player that also does video CDs (which no current consoles do), MP3 cds (ditto), and Kodak picture CDs (ditto), among other things.

      The DVD player feature was fine when decent DVD players cost a fair chunk of change. Since they now cost the same as a new release video game, it's not a big deal. Only people who don't know anything about DVD players will convince themselves it's worth the extra expense.
    • My experience was very different, but thats because all purchasing decisions on non-essential items are best routed through my signifigant other before execution, lest I be prepared for scolding and/or the couch =] We are still poor college students, so two years ago a playstation was pretty low priority. In this case, a DVD player was something I could pitch to my girlfriend, since we had always been movie rental fans. If it were not for that feature, I doubt I would of been able to get one without resorti
  • I love the fact that my Xbox doubles as a DVD player, but that's because...hell..the console used DVD media anyway, might as well include a DVD player on it.

    I'm glad it was included, but then again, I don't expect to rely on built in DVD players either. I once rented a HK bootleg of Azumanga Daioh and it wouldn't play in my Xbox DVD player (Probably because it lacked a DVD menu, which says something about the quality of the DVD itself, but whatever...). I've also had trouble playing other movies in my P

    • I'm glad it was included, but then again, I don't expect to rely on built in DVD players either. I once rented a HK bootleg of Azumanga Daioh and it wouldn't play in my Xbox DVD player (Probably because it lacked a DVD menu, which says something about the quality of the DVD itself, but whatever...). I've also had trouble playing other movies in my PS2 DVD player.

      Just for future reference, I recently went through a problem similar to this. Neither my PS2 nor my aging DVD player would play my HK bootleg DVD
  • It's getting to the point where you need to go out and buy a PC if you just want to play games!

    OH WAIT...
  • I dont' really see them REMOVING functionality on the next generation of gaming consoles. One of the selling points is all of the NEW things it can do, so to take away an existing feature doesn't seem likely.

  • Next Generation (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrWho520 ( 655973 ) on Saturday November 01, 2003 @12:37AM (#7365376) Journal
    Is there any reason for the next generation of game consoles to also be DVD movie players? If you bought a PS2 or Xbox, you have a DVD player. DVD players can be purchased for very little nowadays. Most everyone who wants one, has one.

    When this generation of hardware was released, a built in DVD movie player was a big advantage for a console...when nobody had a DVD player. I envision TiVo-like functionality to be the next "It also plays DVDs!", but would Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft build this type of functionality into a game system? And would such a system stay around the $300 price point that seems to be the new standard?

    What does everybody else think?
    • I can think of only one: If there's no other reason for the DVD-ROM drive.

      Imagine a console that had no storage at all, but used a big fat fast broadband connection to play games you rented.

      Save games could be stored server side.

      Heck, even Video-on-Demand becomes possible if the bandwith glut arrives on time.

      What might happen is the next generation not being very good at TiVo functionality - it's one thing to be able to play DVD's, but to act as a recording device? Can it record while you play a game?
      • I like the internet. I LOVE the internet.

        But, I would never RELY on the internet as the only means to access my computer/console or whatever.

        I may lose my connection for any number of reasons...about a year ago, some loser kid actually went into the 'phone cellar' (or whatever they call the big ass underground switching room) and busted it up with a baseball bat. My DSL was down for 3 days.

        So- I like the idea of local storage....what if the content company goes out of business?! Would Nintendo still be
        • I didn't say it was a good idea. And you're right, these are problems, but they're only problems to thinking consumers. The companies themselves wouldn't care about what happens after they're gone, and they'd just assume that DSL (or whatever the next-generation will be) will be there.

          I'm sure that some marketdroid is drooling over the possible DRM "advantages". :-)

    • Re:Next Generation (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Babbster ( 107076 )
      Is there any reason for the next generation of game consoles to also be DVD movie players?

      Um, yeah: Because it's easy to do and if one of company puts the capability in and others don't, somebody falls behind in the system specs race (ask Sega how that worked out for them).

      I envision TiVo-like functionality to be the next "It also plays DVDs!", but would Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft build this type of functionality into a game system? And would such a system stay around the $300 price point that seems t

    • Is there any reason for the next generation of game consoles to also be DVD movie players? If you bought a PS2 or Xbox, you have a DVD player. DVD players can be purchased for very little nowadays. Most everyone who wants one, has one.

      This would be true if the world were white suburbia. However, in Japan most people only have the PS2 for a DVD player, and likewise people with low incomes in this country (and, I would imagine, other countries as well).

      IMO, integration of devices is a great thing. Consi

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • An ATSC HDTV signal is about 19 Mbps, or about 8.5 GB/hour, assuming that the video is actually using all of the available bandwidth. A digital standard definition (480i) signal would probably be about a quarter of that. That seems well within the range of today's commodity hardware. The trick is to get the digital video out of the ATSC receiver without Disney, CBS and the MPAA going nuts about piracy.

  • Moving Parts Breaking Down? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb@@@gmail...com> on Saturday November 01, 2003 @12:37AM (#7365379) Homepage
    Sony's Playstation 2 problems had to do with a) using lousy equipment and b) lousy quality control, probably because they were racing to meet demand due to a bad launch plan. Blaming DVD video playback for PS2 hardware failures is like blaming audio CD playback for a failure of a computer CD-ROM - the device should be able to handle the different formats without problems.

    As far as complaining about potential cost increases due to multiple functions, why don't we burn that bridge when we get to it? In this most recent generation, it's unreasonable to blame DVD playback for more than $20-30 (licensing and software development) of the cost for PS2s, and the Xbox shifted that cost over to an optional add-on. There's no indication yet that the next consoles will cost any more than they did in this past generation and we all know that people will be less likely to buy the consoles if they cost more, so they'll probably debut again at $300. If I end up getting some extra potential functionality for that money, what is there to complain about? If the argument is against the inclusion of hard drives in consoles because of increased failure rates, well, I'm not buying that either. I've had the same 20-GB hard drive in my Panasonic Showstopper (ReplayTV) since purchase (at its debut several years ago), running for several hours per day, and I don't have problems outside of wanting more space and being too cheap/lazy to replace it with something bigger.

    I read nothing in that editorial that makes me think that adding functions to consoles is a bad idea on its face. It only made me think that the writer, like so many people on the Internet, is a curmudgeon who enjoys hunting down things about which to complain.

    • While having DVD in a system doesn't guarantee that a system will break, the more stuff you have in something, the harder it is to make sure they all work. With the GameCube, Nintendo only had to make sure that their games played on it. Sony, however, had to make sure their old games, music cds of all ages, DVDs, and the two types of PS2 games (blue and silver) work on their system. Yes, we can say that Sony is cheap and lazy and that's why PS2s break, but they certainly made it harder on themselves than
    • Sony's Playstation 2 problems had to do with a) using lousy equipment and b) lousy quality control, probably because they were racing to meet demand due to a bad launch plan. Blaming DVD video playback for PS2 hardware failures is like blaming audio CD playback for a failure of a computer CD-ROM - the device should be able to handle the different formats without problems.

      Exactly. The majority of the disc read errors appear to be related to a plastic gear being worn down by a metal gear (yes, really). DVD
  • The day Sony used the PS2 ability to also play DVD movies is the day they stopped making "video game consoles." That was the day they became "entertainment systems" which by defination is true. However, I think most people would agree with me when I say that, the image of a PS3 or Xbox 2 being sold next to home surround sound system setups in the future is something reserved for neverever land.

  • As long as it plays games ok, add on all you want (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JazFresh ( 146585 ) on Saturday November 01, 2003 @01:53AM (#7365547)
    N-Gage is an example of an age-old lesson. If you make a multi-purpose device, it must perform its primary function well. All other purposes are 'bonuses' that increase the value of the machine. N-Gage does not do that. It tries to be all things to all people, and ends up being nothing to no-one.

    For example, your cellphone probably has a calculator function, right? Is it as good as a proper scientific calculator? No. But it wasn't hard for the cellphone OS manufacturers to add one in, and it is useful. If you need a real calculator, you'll go buy one.

    The same is true of game consoles. These are computers that were designed to play games, but it's not too hard for the manufacturer to add features that only require software (like CD/DVD playback, or net access). It doesn't matter that playback is as good as a Denon, or net access isn't as good as on a PC. But it does increase the value of the machine to some people, so it's worth putting in.

  • When the PS2 was released, DVD players had no where near the market penetration that they have now. IIRC most dvd players were running about $150-$200 when the PS2 came out. At that price, people who specifically wanted them would have had them, but most people I know at the time were still waiting for them to come down in price. I know several people who purchaced a PS2 just as a DVD player, and the fact that it could play games was a bonus. The thing is, the PS2 was out to market so long before the ga
    • I don't know anyone who wanted a GC for Zelda or Mario for example

      ::raises hand
      Me! I love WindWaker =)

      As for the PS2, I was happy when I got it and I could play DVDs, but after time as DVDs went down to $40, it's not really that special any more. I bought my PS2 for FFX, not for DVD, and if not having DVD playback would have made it cheaper or more durable, the trade-off would have been an easy choice.
  • needed by most of this functionality is nearingly nil.

    and i for one don't like buying hardware(or software) that has been intentionally cripled.

    if the console has some way to read the data containing the multimedia content, and a way to load up a program, it should be able to show the stuff.

    it's not like you're adding a vcr to a nes anymore. it's more like adding mp3 playback from cdrw to a dvd player(which doesn't cost anything anymore and so is added)...

    • Yep. The next generation of consoles will probably all have hard disks (ala Xbox). The smallest drive available will be 40GB in the near future... so... why not use all that space for PVR features? The "only" incremental cost would be a TV decoder, which is probably a single chip nowadays.

      I'd definitely consider a console+dvr unit.
      • > why not use all that space for PVR features?

        And when will this PVR record?...while you're playing games?...and who's watching TV these days anyway?...

        I'm not against multi function devices - the DVD player was a bonus for me with the PS2, we bought ours at launch time, and still use it as a DVD player (didn't even bother buying the XBox DVD remote)....

        but PVR is not a feature I'll be looking for......
  • With the computer, the TV, the printer, the scanner, etc, the living room is kinda crowded.

    I like having my PS2 for games AND dvd, takes up less space (especially with that whole vertical thing they have goin on, I have it up next to the couch).

    BTW, I have a cyber tool swiss army knife, I like stuff that do more than one thing, and I don't mind paying a bit more for it. I would pay twice if I bought 2 devices (or n times for n devices), paying taxes each time. With a multifunction device I at least escape
  • But why hasn't MS published a web browser disc for the X-box yet? Once they setup XBox live it'd be a simple matter to add MSN to the mix. 90% of my surfing could be easily done on an XBox...and they support USB keyboards now anyway don't they? You'd even be able to use PC browser plug-ins. But the OS itself is pretty different...without all the third-party Features--holes [that whole locked down proprietary thing]
  • Really, how should I be expected to play games without getting popcorn out of the same machine as the game is running on? Skip the fan and make the console a hotplate.
  • For one thing if the console serves multiple purposes it limits the amount of things you can do at the same time. With multiple devices that serve one purpose and does that one thing very well you have more options on how to set it all up and how to use it. Plus if you want to upgrade a device you don't have to find a replacement that has all the options. Want a new dvd player? Just buy a new dvd player instead of a whole new PS2 that serves as your dvd player also.

    I'd rather have a game console that J
  • The one single reason that made me buy an xbox was that I could chip it and run xboxmediaplayer on it. Without that, and dvd, I wouldn't be playing xbox games today. It's kind of sad that microsoft aren't exploiting these possibilities, as it would give the xbox some really unique features over it's opponents. And yes, I did actually buy a few games for it...

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