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EverQuest Players Defeat 'Unkillable' Monster 196

Thanks to Got Game? for their posting discussing the in-game slaying of Kerafyrm, aka The Sleeper, in PC MMO EverQuest. This event, commemorated with a screenshot on the site of one of the guilds involved, is notable because the players "...killed what Sony Online Entertainment intended to be unkillable. But rather than actually make it untargetable, Sony just gave it a hundred billion hitpoints. For those non EQers out there a reference scale: a snake has about 10 hitpoints. A dragon has about 100,000. A god has 1-2million." So, it took "close to 200 players almost 4 hours to beat the thing down into the ground", after an earlier failed attempt where the guilds "beat it down to 27% and then it mysteriously disappeared. Without dying. It seems that one of the Game Masters at SoE reset the zone because 'they thought the encounter might be bugged'."
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EverQuest Players Defeat 'Unkillable' Monster

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  • Unkillable (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bsharitt ( 580506 ) < minus language> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @02:51PM (#7571291) Homepage Journal
    If it's supposed to be unkillable, why didn't they just give it unlimited hit points?

    • Why was it supposed to be unkillable? Did it play a part in the story? And if so, sy would you want to kill it if it's plot pivitol?

      Something tells me this RPG needs more cows falling from the sky and killing munchkiners... but that would assume there's any sort of real DMing going on in the first place.
      • by Tofino ( 628530 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @05:27PM (#7572672)
        Yes. Basically, Kerafyrm was supposed to be the doer of the end of the world, opening the door for the EQ2 storyline. After getting extremely annoyed about something or other, Kerafyrm blows everything up, including complete destruction of the moon, and buggers off somewhere. Years later, civilization redevelops, only in much higher resolution and with better textures and less clothes.

        No Kerafyrm, no moon blowing up, no mass destruction with a T-25 Space Modulator.

    • Re:Unkillable (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ggwood ( 70369 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @05:27PM (#7572680) Homepage Journal

      They gave Sleeper total immunity to spell damage and an insane ammount of hit points and an insane regeneration rate. Apparently, it was vulnerable to summoned creatures thus all the magic users who could, made them.
      Sleeper was weaker, but upgraded a couple expansions ago and then he was wakened on virtually every server. This one server may well be the last holdout - no one woke him there. Time passed. Sleeper was not upgraded, but players were.
      Thus the inevitable happened.

      As for invulnerability, they can make a creature untargetable - and thus unkillable. I suppose you could argue that some kind of area of effect attack would injure it, but Sleeper is/was immune to spell damage...and that doesn't leave much.

      I have no problem with just having a really nasty monster in the game, but they should have planned for it to be killed and given it loot. Best loot from Velius expansion, which I guess would seem a bit gimpy now, would have made people think more highly of the development team, because at least they had thought it out.

      It goes to show how much time these people have on their hands. Perhaps more things like this could be introduced with commensurate loot.

      This was on a PvP server, by the way, so all those people spent all that time in close proximity to one another and at any time they could have started smacking each other. They didn't. It is a great feat of organization and dedication.

      Further, after the first time they got the guy down to 27% health and the zone was reset, the people were all given complete resurections (e.g. death with no losses) by a GM *and* a few points (called AA points or alternate advancement points) to make up for all the losses they took in those initial deaths. That was pretty kind of the GM's...given the fact that they probably brought the zone down intentionally to prevent the people from killing it.

      I think there was a quote at the time Sleeper was upgraded that it would take so many people to take it down that the zone would crash - and that was probably true at that time. Perhaps it would have taken, say, 600 people, and that will bring down zones in Everquest, I think. (A zone is just sort of a patch of virtual space. All space is divided into "zones".)
    • by oman_ ( 147713 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @08:55PM (#7574181) Homepage

      It's just a classic example of security through absurdity.

      When will people learn that THIS NEVER WORKS.

      • It's just a classic example of security through absurdity.
        When will people learn that THIS NEVER WORKS.

        Speak for yourself. Nobody else knows that you have to dance a flamenco before you open my wallsafe.

    • Describe mathematically "unlimited hit points" please!?

      They made an attempt to give it what they perceived to be just that. High regen rate and high hit points and certain immunities.

      Probably making it invulnerable would have triggered it to relate to the world in a manner they did not want. Such as its ignorance of attacks since attacks could never harm it.

      Alternatly, they wanted to see what would happen. I assume the programmers enjoy the game as well.

      Seems though as if this was a mistake they were
  • Raising the bar (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @02:55PM (#7571337)
    Now you went and raised the bar even higher. The next "unkillable" monster will probably have 100 trillion hit points and have a one-hit kill attack...

    Course this will probably mean 'we need 2000 people for this one guys' for some MMO gamers..

    • Well, that sort of task would depend on its rate of attack. If it has a 1-hit kill but only attacks every 15 seconds, you could just overwhelm it with sheer numbers, especially if the game allows resurrection during combat.
    • by SolemnDragon ( 593956 ) <solemndragon AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:35PM (#7571719) Homepage Journal
      If it were me- and it's not and i'm not making games, so this is an armchair argument at best- the next 'unkillable' thing would require some form of regenerative algorithm, where the reduction of hit points triggers an addition, or some other form of increase- and make the darn thing reset at a certain level!

      i think it's pretty d*d funny that the one thing gameplayers could agree on for an in-game large-scale social goal was to thwack the monster meant to be part of the permanent landscape. Somewhere, an executive is going mad under their desk, whispering things about a revolution...

      i wonder whether such things will be deliberately introduced into future games, as a quiet little way to increase teamwork?

      • actually D&D had a monster which was supposed to be impossible to ever kill. i believe it was called a Terraque (spelling might be wrong)

        it had 300 hp and couldn't be killed until it was at -100 it regenerated 20 HP a round. and after all that you had to use a wish (which required the DM/GM to grant) to actually kill it. so maybe SoE will take a lesson from that and require that a GM be required to defeat the next "impossible" character. that way at least someone is responsible for it dying.

        Side not
      • by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:10PM (#7572030) Homepage Journal
        Its happened before in the first major MMORPG, Ultima Online. Richard Gariott (creator and 'king' of the game) came on for a ceremony. Well, instead of doing the 'infinite hp' thing, he just loaded a buncha hp into his character. Well, an 'evil' guild planned an assassination, and it was successful. Lord British died. They went along with it and made it quite entertaining experience for the players, too.

        But, honestly, the best way to do these types of things (used to code for MUDs (text-based predecessors to MMORPGs)) is to have an 'infinited hp' code. Like 0 hp means unconscious, and -1 hp means death... so -2hp means "unlimited hps". So you do a simple check when you are hit for damage....
        if( target.hp == -2 ) then target.hp = -2;
        else target.hp = target.hp - damage;
        Simple as that.
        • by Anonymous Coward
          Oh, please. That sort of hack guarantees buggy code. For example, if target.hp was 1 and damage was 3, the target would suddenly become invulnerable!

          What you want is a flag: if (!target.invulnerable) target.hp -= damage;

          Sure, it uses at worst four bytes more memory per entity. But we're talking modern harware here, not Commodore 64.
        • by Gaijin42 ( 317411 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:42PM (#7572307)
          I was a member of that guild (The Ravens of Fate) and we were not evil. We all had played the game since pre-alpha 1, several members of the Origin dev team (Pall, Ares, Grimli etc) were members of our guild or played with us regularly. One of our members (Mental4) also ran the primere fansite of the time (

          In this particular instance, they set a no_kill flag for LB, but he logged off. When he logged back on the flag was reset, and the dev in charge of the event (Grimli if I recall correctly) forget to turn it on again.

          LB was killed by a single blast of a fire (wand or scroll, I don't remember) not some really large amount of HP. other than the no_kill flag LB was actually a pretty weak char.

          Further, killing of LB was a goal in pretty much EVERY incarnation of Ultima, including cool events that happened if you did so, so it should have been no suprise that it happened in UO.
          • by Control-Z ( 321144 ) on Thursday November 27, 2003 @03:02AM (#7575639)
            This is the account I like, from Rainz:

            The servers had just been taken down to prepare for the huge influx of players for the speech Lord British and Lord Blackthorne were giving throughout Britannia. When the servers came back up, I strolled through Britain with Helios, my fellow guild member. We headed to Blackthorne's castle where the first speech was being given. LB, Blackthorne, and their jesters were up on a bridge orating to the masses. Unfortunately I wasn't playing my mage character, so casting spells from a spellbook was out of the question. Luckily my character was a good thief who had high "stealing" skill. I desperately searched the backpacks of those around me and eventually came upon a fire field scroll. After that it was pretty simple, I just cast the scroll on the bridge and waited to see what would happen. Either LB or Blackthorne made the comment "hehe nice try", can't recall exactly who. It was a humorous sight and I expected to be struck down by lightning or have some other evil fate befall me. Instead I heard a loud death grunt as British slumped to his death. After that it was just pure mayhem, Blackthorne or another force summoned 4 daemons into the castle and people were dying left and right.
        • just as a slightly off-topic question... if i had hp=4, and you hit me, knock me down six, and i would have hp=-2, then you couldn't hit me, since i am dead.... but how do you differentiate between a dead player(me) or you(who also has -2, but is suppose to be immortal?
          • If you get hit with an attack, the program will go on to check to see if you died. If that's the case, then the if statement in question will never come up, since you won't be running around the game, you'll be back at the main menu.
        • You could just think Object Oriented and do it that way.

          The code to cause damage should be:

          And then you have:

          class Monster {
          public void takeDamage(int damageAmount){
          hitpoints = hitpoints - damageAmount; ...
          } ...

          class SomeUnkillableMonster extends Monster {
          public void takeDamage(int damageAmount) {
          //NOP - unkillable
          } ...

        • >Like 0 hp means unconscious, and -1 hp means death... so -2hp means "unlimited hps".

          No, because that way you'd be wasting the rest of the negative range of a signed int. It'd be better to have some flags in a seperate variable, such as an unsigned char with 1 being unconscious, 2 being dead, 1 & 2 being unreviveably dead, and 5 other flags. That way, you can use an unsigned int for HP and not worry about what values are in there.
        • Ummm... you need some more checks in there, lest somebody with 8HP take 10HP of damage and become immortal.

 least until they regenerate and go up to -1HP.
          • Sa-weet jesus people. I just mentioned a quick psuedo code algorithm to give a more concrete idea to what I was suggesting, and I'm getting critiqued like its code I'm using in commercial software.

            Honestly, I'd have an object with flags and pretty things like that, cause I'm quite partial to good architected OOP. I just used my quick algorthim as an alternative to something already in place that didn't design these ideas into it. I'd add a complete function of code for damage, but I'd rather just get m
  • by quandrum ( 652868 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:01PM (#7571397)
    Proving they have too much time on their hands one unkillable monster at a time.
  • The Result? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Goyuix ( 698012 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:02PM (#7571412) Homepage
    So what treasure did he leave behind? Hwo much experience? Etc.??? And yes I read the linked articles and none of them mention anything... and if he dropped nothing then that sucks almost as bad as Sony resetting the zone...

    While it is all good and well that they bonded together to put the smack down on him, is there anything unfathomably cool to show for it?
  • Making something difficult is no substitute for making it impossible.
    • by smcv ( 529383 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:50PM (#7571842) Homepage
      It depends whether the NPC in question had been thought of when the engine was written, or whether it was added later. I don't know how often Everquest developers update the client, but if it had no concept of "invincible", it's possible that they would decide a client update would be too much effort, and stick to things the client could already do.

      I used to make mods for X-Wing vs TIE Fighter; admittedly, the available tools were all reverse-engineered, so we never really knew for sure what the engine was capable of, but it was pretty limited in areas Totally Games (the developers) hadn't needed.

      One of the early XWvTF missions that used add-on models was the Death Star trench run from A New Hope. The Death Star was represented by a square something like a hundred miles wide, with a trench running across it (10 polygons making up 5 rectangles - "ground" to the left, "ground" to the right, and two sides and a floor for the trench). A few other mod makers (including me) used the same mesh as a convenient representation of "the ground" in other ground-based scenarios.

      It turned out that the XWvTF engine didn't have a form of invincibility that was useful; the "invincible" flag in mission files actually meant "no collision detection", and flying down the Death Star trench pursued by TIE fighters would be no fun if you flew straight through it whenever you should have crashed, so people usually just gave it a few million points of hull strength instead.

      In the sequel, X-Wing Alliance, "invincible" was implemented in a much nicer way: invincible ships could get hit, they could lose shields, they could even be seriously damaged (slightly alarming in one mission where you fly alongside Luke Skywalker), but they never dropped below 1% hull strength.

      (If you still play XWvTF or XWA, see my linked homepage for some old custom models and an XvT mission pack)
    • by mseeger ( 40923 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:46PM (#7572341)
      Making something difficult is no substitute for making it impossible.

      How do they say?

      Difficult things become impossible if we don't try them.

      So they tried ;-).

      Regards, Martin

    • The fact that the proles rebelled and killed the unkillable God when they were supposed to be killing each other. It is insurrection at its best.

  • If this monster has been in the game since the games inception, how does it get it's hitpoints back? When no players are in the immediate vicinity (ie: viewable) of it?

    In my experience in these types of games, if i get into a fight with a monster, then die/give up against it, it will then wander around with the remainder of its hit points until it dies.
    • He has been in the game since one of the expansions.

      Reading the article, it appears the monster spawns as part of some quest, does his thing, and then vanishes forever. So you only get one shot at killing it.

    • Re:One question... (Score:5, Informative)

      by aster_ken ( 516808 ) * on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:25PM (#7571646)

      NOTE: I am not an EverQuest player.

      This monster has been attacked before. It can only be summoned once per server. When it is summoned it goes around the zones killing everything. It has an insane regeneration rate! The last group to attack it couldn't get it below about 97% because it would continue to regenerate faster than the players could damage it.

      However, Sony didn't account for the higher levels (60-65) when they designed this creature. The higher the level caps, the higher the damage caused. Thus, the Sleeper died.

      Yeah, my thoughts are kinda disconnected there. I'm sleepy. Leave me alone.

    • Everything in Everquest has an innate regeneration level. For players this is only a few hitpoints every 6 seconds (a game 'tick') whereas NPC's generally regenerate much quicker, and moreso the higher level the NPC is. This is basically there to stop low-level players from killing high-level monsters by doing a series of kamikaze attacks on the NPC. Also, it should probably be noted that once this particular NPC spawns, it goes on a scripted rampage across several game 'zones', killing everything in its
    • Everquest has gone through several different methods of hp regeneration, but since the Sleeper is Velious era (released at the end of 2000), he probably has a static regen of some number every six seconds. The number I heard was 20,000, but that seems awful high.

      However, Kerafym doesn't hang out somewhere waiting to be beat on. Waking the Sleeper is a serverwide event even if you don't kill him, and you only get one chance to ever see him.
  • MMORPG challenge (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:10PM (#7571495)
    This is half the fun of MMORPGs and it happens all too infrequently.

    Half the articles on here are about how designers want to create camraderie amongst players and keep them from griefing newbies. Here's a secret-- give them a challenge, something that they can't do, then wait and see how long it takes. And on a PVP server too, bravo.

    On an old MUD I used to play the designers created quests that were insanely hard to crack. People would spend hours trying to figure them out. New games rarely have this sort of thing-- even the high level EQ quests are waaaay too straightforward and don't require any brainpower.

    I suppose it just costs too much to have to make unique quests that are reworked after being solved.
    • Re:MMORPG challenge (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Pete (big-pete) ( 253496 ) * <> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:55PM (#7572430)

      On an old MUD I used to play the designers created quests that were insanely hard to crack.

      *grin* I learned that to make a decent quest on AnotherMUD I had to make it exceptionally tough - and I learned the hard way. Nothing like seeing the players swarm over hours of preparation in no time at all, and having it go to waste.

      I only managed to make one quest that was tougher than the players, and I recompensated everyone who tried it - I thought getting to the final creature was insanely difficult and the final creature itself was virtually impossible, I had to log off for a bit... When I came back all the surrounding creatures had been slaughtered, but the final creature had a big chest full of corpses and equipment from all the players who tried and failed.

      The important thing any game designer should remember is to NEVER underestimate the players. Some people will go to incredible lengths to achive the impossible and go that extra mile. For an example see the Lytha way [] for Thief: The Dark Project.

      People are crazy. ;)

      -- Pete.

      • Re:MMORPG challenge (Score:5, Interesting)

        by smcv ( 529383 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @09:03PM (#7574223) Homepage
        That "Lytha Way" reminds me of some recent guest articles on [], in which an expert Diablo II player describes how he completed the game on Hell difficulty with the following strange characters:

        - A melee-only Sorceress whose name I forget: her primary spell was Teleport (for targeting purposes), with Enchant (extra damage) in a secondary role

        - Gunter, the Barbarian who wanted to be a wizard: a Barbarian with no melee ability whatsoever, using only warcries and the fire spells provided by the items he was wearing

        - Maldar the Magnificent, the compassionate, pacifist Necromancer: completed the game without killing a single monster, except those that had to die in order to complete quests (quest bosses and so on). His primary spells were Bone Wall (summon a wall), Bone Prison (trap a monster), and Dim Vision (target monster can't see).
    • I used to be an imm on a mud a long time ago. I used to make monsters that were in SMAUG hit table spec but would be generally unbeatable by anything less than 20 players. My one Smite Mob was a level 105 ghost known as the Cloud of Doom. One day one of the newer imms found my office where I had the thing and decided to do a quest with it. When I came on two hours later half the mud was asking me that the hell it was and why it killed everything that it saw. I had to find it because it had scripts to appear
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:15PM (#7571536)
    I would like to be there when they try to use their 15 minutes of fame to get laid at a bar.

  • Flawed Thinking (Score:4, Insightful)

    by {8_8} ( 31689 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:15PM (#7571539) Journal
    Really, if Sony wanted an unkillable monster they should have done more to prevent it. Invulnerability would be the best choice, since giving people any chance means they'll take it. Failing that, a obscene hp regeneration rate coupled with pornographic hp and insta-death to anyone within theoretical attack range might work. Given the ingenuity people display when trying to circumvent the rules, however, I suspect that anything less than complete invulnerability would be overcome eventually.

    Of course, the above ideas are based on the assumption that the game rules are followed. Exploits and other rule-breaking techniques throw everything out the window.
  • by wickedj ( 652189 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:25PM (#7571644) Homepage
    The monster was kind of like an Agent from the Matrix. Even though it was "all powerful" and supposedly impossible to kill, it was still bound by the laws of system. Same as an Agent. Instead of running away from it, some users decided to go all "Neo" on it and take it down. Not bad.
    • by SamBeckett ( 96685 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:57PM (#7572449)
      if i hear another friggin matrix analogy i am going to kill myself... and have trinity kiss me to wake me back up..
    • No. Smith was taking over the system and was killed by sacrafice.

      Also, had the developers wanted, they could simply make the thing invincible. They could give it an infinite amount of hit points, make it untargatable, make it immune to all forms of damage, etc. It's not hard to make truly incincible enemies that obey the laws of the system of a video game.

      Like mnay of the NPCs in Star Wars Galaxies. Guns will not fire at them, (the game just fails to respond to the attack command if they are targeted), sp
  • Storyline Problems (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Akai ( 11434 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:25PM (#7571647) Homepage Journal
    One of my guys here at work is an evercrack addict, and he was saying that the dragon that was killed was a set-piece for a quest/storyline that was running.

    It'll be interesting to see how they rewrite the quest/story to relfect the realities of the situation....
    • by Lordrashmi ( 167121 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:32PM (#7571699)
      They don't have to. They will just respawn him, probably with more hit points and forget about it.

      The majority of Dragons have storylines that they are apart of but they get killed all the time.

      (I am a recovering EverCrack addict, clean over a year)
    • Probably the same way they rewrite the quest/story to reflect the reality of Durgo the Dark Elf or Barry the Barbarian or any of the other quest monsters getting killed -- they don't, and the monster respawns in due time.
    • It would have been interesting if they had a storyline all set up just in case the dragon was slain. But from what I remember of EQ, nothing like that will be there. The story line is stagnant, except for when expansion packs are announced.
  • by musikit ( 716987 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:32PM (#7571701)
    how long until it gets solo-ed?
  • by Johnny Mnemonic ( 176043 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `eromsnidm'> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @03:34PM (#7571715) Homepage Journal

    One of my DMs was fond of saying: "If you give it hitpoints, the players will kill it" when describing god design. I guess he was right...
    • You can always give it:
      1) Regen. Say, 1000HP/round
      2) Really good damage. Kills with one hit.
      3) A decent mass destruction weapon. Boom, and everyone's fried.
      4) Some other good stuff. Like, reflect damage. A player receives just as much as he causes. Or paralysis. Or plainly number of 'wish' spells. Your god wishes "I want them all to die now." and good bye.
      • Putting my geek thinking cap on...
        1)Regen. Say, 1000HP/round. Create a spell of vampric regeneration, cast it on the god. If the god regenerates, he takes damage.

        2) Really good damage. Kills with one hit. Easy...mirror image, illusions, temporal displacements, vampric regeneration...lots of ways to avoid combat damage. Or, just bring alot of people with you. :)

        3) Mass destruction weapon Any mass effect spell should at least allow a saving throw. If not, then its in the realm of "impossibility" to ki
        • 1) 100% immune to all spells. Sorry.
          2) 1:1 hit exchange rate. Needed 80.000 hits to kill the God. Needed 200 hits to kill all 200 attackers, needed another 1000 hits to kill all their creations.
          3) You get 20 second warning to abandon the blast area. Then everything gets fried. Say, if you're alone, you can do that. If you are with a group of 200 people, they won't all just squeeze through narrow exit door, maybe 20 % will run, 10% will teleport away, 1% with really uber resistance stuff will survive on-site
      • Dude you just described the yard trash on some of the zones my guild clears for fun. The real boss mobs in those zones are pretty nasty, however.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:19PM (#7572108)

    Half a league, half a league,
    Half a league onward,
    All into the Impossible
    Rode almost two hundred.
    "Forward, the Heavy Brigade!
    "Charge the dragon!" they said:
    Into the Impossible
    Rode almost two hundred.


    "Forward, the Heavy Brigade!"
    Was any wizard dismayed?
    Not though all guildsmen knew
    Someone had blundered:
    Their's not to make reply,
    Their's not to reason why,
    Their's but to go and try:
    Into the Impossible
    Rode almost two hundred.


    Dragon to right of them,
    Dragon to left of them,
    Dragon in front of them
    Fumed and thundered;
    Stormed at with sword and shell,
    Boldly they fought and well,
    Fought with old Kerafyrm
    Fought at the the mouth of Hell
    Fought almost two hundred.


    Flashed all their sabres bare,
    Flashed spells they turned from air,
    Pelting the Dragon there,
    Charging a Fortress, while
    All the world wondered:
    Plunged into fire-breathed smoke
    Through 2 billion hit points they broke;
    Dragon unkillable
    Reeled from their mighty stroke
    Shattered and sundered.
    Then they returned back, but not
    With a bit of loot
    No rust-sword for the bold
    Almost two hundred.


    Quiet to right of them,
    Quiet to left of them,
    Quiet behind them
    No mighty thunder.
    No "Jolly good!" and "well!"
    No grand applause to tell
    How they had fought so well
    Came, killed old Kerafyrm
    Came, did the Impossible.

    All that was left for them,
    For almost two hundred, then,
    Was burnt Dragon.

    When can their glory fade?
    O the wild charge they made!
    All the world wondered.
    Honor the charge they made,
    Honor the Dragon Slayers,
    Nearly two hundred!

    [Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.]
    • Hey, I liked that! Creative. And it was Tennyson. I love Tennyson! This post is pointless except to say "That was cool!". :)
    • "Too much free time" is not killing the unkillable monster with 200 of your friends.

      "Too much free time" is composing an epic poem about it.

      If I could hook up a generator to Tennyson's grave I could power Manhattan, with enough left over to drive a computer to post a "Way to go" comment.
  • The saddest part is that it dropped no items nor did the EverQuest GMs give out anything for defeating the dragon (that I know of).

    3+ hours for nothing but posterity.
  • I bet... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Crayon Kid ( 700279 ) was Chii who did the Sleeper in. :)
  • by Hamster Lover ( 558288 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @04:43PM (#7572316) Journal
    You know, the board game that Starbucks sells in their coffee shops.

    The rules are so pathetically thin that situations come up with no ready answers in the rules, so we make it up. Consequently, everyone I know plays the game a little diffently.

    I had the inspiring idea during Sculptorades (where you sculpt your clues in plasticene) that I could spell the answer out in the clay. Of course, the rules say nothing about this.

    People will always try to achieve the impossible or seemingly impossible.
  • by Deanasc ( 201050 )
    Never underestimate the power of a couple hundred geeks. Next on the hitlist? How about the RIAA!
  • by Notright ( 655797 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @06:33PM (#7573243)
    Reminds me of "Harry" in Asherson's Call which was a shard that had to be destroyed as part of the story line. On the thistledown server a band of PK's got together and protected it 24hours a day long after it had been killed on the other servers. So the devs had to actually force it to be killed by spawning in Admin control monsters and getting one person on the server to volunteer to be the villain. They even made a statue to commemorate the event in the game.
  • by vojtech ( 565680 ) <> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @07:10PM (#7573526)
    It's interesting that the story says that the beast had 100 billion hitpoints. This wouldn't fit into a 'long' on a 32-bit architecture. So either is EQ using more than 32-bit numbers for hitpoint counting, or it was something like 2147483647 (2^31, two billion) hitpoints and they actually managed to underflow the counter ...
    • by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Friday November 28, 2003 @04:03AM (#7580766) Homepage
      IEEE double precision floating point gives you 52 bits of mantissa. That's good for about 4.5 quadrillion hit points.
      • IEEE double precision floating point gives you 52 bits of mantissa.

        Mantissa bits eh?

        The part of a floating point [] number which, when multiplied by its radix [] raised to the power of its exponent [], gives its value. The mantissa may include the number's sign or this may be considered to be a separate part.


        Source []: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, 1993-2003 Denis Howe


        Ya learn something new every day...
    • then the long is typically 64 bit, at least if you're using a modern language.
    • Interesting for newbie programmers, maybe. After you code for more than a month you'll find things like this [] that give you arbitrary precision integers.

    • so if EQ is using a 64-bit integer, then why didn't they just use MAX_INT_64 or whatever? They are probably using some arbitrary precision integer available in their database backend.
  • by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) <twistedgreen&gmail,com> on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @08:27PM (#7574015)
    Looks like the Sleeper can't awaken anymore!
  • Ebay!! (Score:4, Funny)

    by More Karma Than God ( 643953 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @08:48PM (#7574141)
    Can I buy the corpse on Ebay?
  • by SamSim ( 630795 ) on Wednesday November 26, 2003 @10:47PM (#7574629) Homepage Journal
    As a hardcore gamer (though not of EQ) I totally understand the drive to succeed in a near-impossible videogame task like this, and I've seen milestones come and go time and again. The perfect Pac-Man game. 43 seconds Minesweeper Expert. Quake 1, completed in under 12 1/2 minutes. Perfect Dark, done on all difficulty settings in less than 100 minutes. I know the dedication you put in for an achievement likely to be recognised by only a tiny fraction of the whole world, and I know the elation when the barrier falls, the timer stops one second faster than the previous record, the final objective completes. I can only hope that there exist more and greater challenges out there, because, seriously, who in the world would want to stop here?

    "Nearly impossible" = "possible".
  • Give it stats ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kleedrac2 ( 257408 ) <> on Thursday November 27, 2003 @12:21PM (#7577396) Homepage
    As an avid Role-Player myself this rings true to a debate a friend and I have had for years. I play alot of D&D (3.5) and my friend plays Shadowrun. In D&D they came out with a book of Gods & DemiGods and gave them stats that it would probably take 4 - 50th level PC's to take out. As the game only supports level 20 by default (ie minus the Epic Level Handbook) I am of the opinion that that's enough to make sure they won't die should I bring them into a campaign. My friend however pointed out that in the Shadowrun universe any "plot character" such as Harlequin the Immortal Elven Mage has a character sheet that simply states "Harlequin always wins, Harlequin can do anything and everything" And I've argued that this takes away from the game. It's not even a fair playing field! I used to argue that at least the Gods in my campaign, while uber-powerful, had to follow the rules and roll a die before they accomplished something (though the odds of failure were approximately 1 in 20.) This however gives me a new perspective. And I think should my players ever beat a god ... I'll give them good loot.

    • Some game experiences come to mind. Hmm let's see if I can pick a specific example...

      Approx 14-16th level party vs like 26-28th level spellcaster. This was supposed to be a "plot" encounter where the DM smacked us around a bit before having our asses saved by divine providence. Unfortunately it was his broken NPC that needed saving.

      After a few minutes of stalemate with the party hiding in an antimagic field set up by my cleric cohort and my paladin and the others figuring out that running outside it, flyi
  • if we ever have giant space invaders with 100 billion hit points wandering Earth, there'll be a few hundred brave people with pointy sticks to hack away at it until it dies. Maybe humanity will survive, afterall. =)
  • The developers didn't mess up not accounting for such a large battle. It's most likely minimally difficult for them to make an object invincible.

    The point, in MMOG especially, is that having something possible, but very difficult actually serves a role beyond him just being there. In this case it united an entire server.

    Making games realistic whereas nothing is invincible makes them better (in my opinion).

    If I had it my way, as a character, I could destroy whatever it is I wanted. Obviously this holds

%DCL-MEM-BAD, bad memory VMS-F-PDGERS, pudding between the ears