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PC Games (Games) XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Is PC Online Gaming Unwell? 132

Posted by simoniker from the daisies-being-depressed-vertically? dept.
Thanks to GameSpy for their 'Spy/CounterSpy' editorial discussing whether the rise of online console gaming will eventually lead to the decline of online PC gaming. On the one hand, it's argued: "Not only do I think that console gaming is not a threat to PC gaming - I think it actually helps the PC gaming scene by introducing new players to the online gaming world", but on the other hand, an alternative point of view is advanced: "My current love for certain online PC titles really reminded me just how annoying online computer gaming is... even though there are PC exclusive online games that I love to play, I'd rather be playing them on Xbox Live."
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Is PC Online Gaming Unwell? More

Is PC Online Gaming Unwell?

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  • Man, this is like KDE vs GNOME or Linux vs GNU/Linux for you guys!

    Every day, it's either "GameSpy says a lack of orignality threatens gaming!" or "GameSpy says console [PC] gaming is going to destroy PC [console] gaming!"

    I can't wait until SCO sues EA...

  • Um. What?! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @07:57PM (#7840711)
    Dude, I'll take a keyboard and mouse with a high resolution monitor over a stupid xbox or ps2 controller with a standard tvs creen any day.
    • Absolutely. I mean really, you ask anyone who has played Counterstrike or whatever on a PC if they'd like to go and play it with a console controller... I would bet damn near 100% wouldn't even give the console a look-in.

      Same with games like Warcraft. I've played RTS games on consoles and they SUCK without a mouse, and playing a game like warcraft with it's sweet graphical nuances would just SUCK on the console.

      Online console gaming, sure, will probably eat into the PC a little, but I'm really hoping that
      • Have you played Warcraft3 or Starcraft online? To be sure, there are tons of 'fuckwits' on battle.net.

        Any on-line competitive game is going to draw people who are there just to piss you off. You'll get backstabbers, hackers, quitters, racists, homophobes, name-callers.

        Basically, I've just decided to stay off-line or only game with my personal friends. For the amount of time I have to give to gaming, and the number of good games out there to play, I find I'd rather spend my time w/o idiotic childish types
        • Yes I've played Warcraft 3 online. I notice a ton less griefers on there than back in Starcraft's boom period.

          I think ultimately consoles will draw away the fuckwits. Of course, the big problem is the fact the the decent console online networks charge you money. The idiots who get off on ruining games for everyone else won't want to pay for the pleasure.

          Another area online gaming on the consoles sucks is cheats. SOCOM for example has been ruined by cheats. On the PC, if a cheat is found, it's usually patc

    • Re:Um. What?! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Recoil_42 ( 665710 )
      i'll bite: first of all, console gaming doesn't mean low resolution. HDTV means 480p, 720p, and 1080i. that for the most part matches, and at 1080i, beats, the resolutions that most people's PC monitors are at. couple that with a 50" inch 'monitor', and the visual 'richness' far surpasses that of PC gaming. and just try to convince me that you don't enjoy a nice comfy couch over an office chair. as for controls, once you get used to it, it's actually alot nicer than using a mouse and wasd, simply beca
      • i'll bite: first of all, console gaming doesn't mean low resolution. HDTV means 480p, 720p, and 1080i. that for the most part matches, and at 1080i, beats, the resolutions that most people's PC monitors are at.

        couple that with a 50" inch 'monitor', and the visual 'richness' far surpasses that of PC gaming. and just try to convince me that you don't enjoy a nice comfy couch over an office chair.

        as for controls, once you get used to it, it's actually alot nicer than using a mouse and wasd, simply becaus
        • HDTV means 480p, 720p, and 1080i. that for the most part matches, and at 1080i, beats, the resolutions that most people's PC monitors are at.

          A TV capable of 1080i will cost more than a new computer, and there aren't many games that can take advantage of it. Even the XBox's GeForce3.5 is quite underpowered compared to modern PC graphics cards, and the other consoles are worse. So consoles can't render 1080i (which has a pixel count roughly equivilent to 1600x1200) smoothly in most modern-looking games. My

          • I agree completely with your post, believe it or not. ypu're absolutely right. but remember, the article is about the future, not the present.

            Plasma HDTV's have beaten moore's law in the last few years, halving in price each year, and showing very little signs of slowing down.

            As for the XBOX's GPU, yup, i agree with that to. XBOX is what i would consider the 'transition' console -- it has the support for it, just waiting for those games which have the available power left over to use it. The next generati
            • now, as for RTSs, why do you think you see those caps? why is there a limit at all? its because of the limits of a mouse in controlling an RTS.

              Partially, but also the limits of the brain. No human can micromanage 500 units. If all you'd do with an army that size is order them around in larger groups, then it makes very little sense to make a game like that. Simplifying the play by reducing army sizes makes for a much more tactical game.

              Also, unit caps help keep players from building indefinately, and nev

            • You have some very interesting points. Cheaper Plasma HDTVs will even the playing field as far as display goes, but graphics capabilities will always be dominated by PC's because of upgradability. The day a new console hits the market you can put together a faster PC. Sure you can optimize for a console because you know exactly what hardware you are dealing with, but I think that this advantage is quickly lost to the breakneck pace of new video card development. And please keep in mind that an X-Box is simp
        • Large Monitors (TV-OUT), Gamepads and Couches are all compatible with the PC.

          Oh wait, you seem to like consoles because their limitations. No mouse means people can't aim... you say its good, I say its bad. :P

          There are lots of games that make it harder to aim and not a simple click-and-kill. (Gunwobble, Cone of Fire, etc)
    • Ok, mouse I understand, but keyboard? You get the ability to precision aim, but lose the ability to precision move? Uh...no...Give me a gamepad for my left hand and a mouse for my right hand any say.

  • My only problem with consoles (Score:5, Funny)

    by Elwood P Dowd ( 16933 ) <judgmentalist@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @08:02PM (#7840776) Journal
    even though there are PC exclusive online games that I love to play, I'd rather be playing them on Xbox Live.

    On a television? Without a mouse or keyboard? Obviously, more work is put into more games for consoles. The best writers are all probably employed on console games. Perhaps many of the best engineers and designers work on console games. However. You have to play them with mittens and bottle bottom glasses.

    I need that like I need a broom shoved up my ass.

    Some day, consoles will work with high res displays (for less $ than a PC setup, please) and will have more precise input. I dream of that day.
    • I don't know, right now the display thing is a wash as more and more XBOX games utilize HDTV support. And 40" of TV goodness even at standard resolution kills 17" of monitor for my taste anyway. I thought it was about the gameplay and not the graphics. Or is that only certain threads?

      As for controls, another wash IMHO. You don't need controls as precise when everyone else isn't cheating their arse off. And everyone else is using that controller too, so its an even playing field. Hey, everyone has the
      • And 40" of TV goodness even at standard resolution kills 17" of monitor for my taste anyway.

        Well, I disagree. I need much more resolution. And if we're talking about HDTV, we are also talking about a *lot* of money. Apple Cinema Displays are in the competition.

        You're right, it's about gameplay. My desire for resolution is because certain types of gameplay are totally impossible without lots of visual information being presented to the player. Imagine Civ 3 at 512x384.

        As for controls, I don't care about
        • The whole reason console gaming is killing off decent gaming as we used to know it (high resolution, brilliant shading and shadow effects, high polygon counts, all leading towards ultra realistic games) is because of the price. If consoles were as expensive as PC's (in terms of entry level), consoles would have died so very long ago.

          The low quality of console games is holding back the entire industry. Console games that are released on the PC are very often exactly the same as the original console versio
          • Well considering you have only made some vague unquantifiable claims about quality can you first Please name a PC game that wouldn't be better if developed to take advantage of the superior capabilities of a properly equipped console?

            Kinda arbitrary huh?

            Ok, how about you name a console game that you think would have made a better PC game IF it had some things that the console version could not possibly provide. This way at least I'll have a chance to know where you are coming from.

            I'll give you a hint
            • Well this is easy. Let me explain.

              Ok, how about you name a console game that you think would have made a better PC game IF it had some things that the console version could not possibly provide.

              Any console game not optimised for the latest and greatest rendering API's (DX9 or the latest OpenGL features). Reason? It would essentially be the same game but with better graphics. I understand this is a real cop-out answer, so I'll embellish a little. A few people have already mentioned that consoles de
              • Once again, I thought we were taking game quality and not graphics.

                You wasted a whole lot of breath replying to arguements I was never going to make.

                Now please, once more, specifically, what game would have been better as a PC game, and why?
                • Every game. Why? Better control schemes. Better resolution. Better audio. More customisability. More functionality. These are all aspects of the game quality. Starcraft:Ghost if you must have an example, although an example is not necessary for you to understand.

                  The console cannot provide the same quality as a PC. You have the same gameplay, but with better visual, auditory and tactile attributes. This is why the PC can provide a higher quality than a console game.
                  • Again, vagaries. You challenged me to provide an example, yet you could not meet your own challenge. Pleae provide a specific example, with reasons, so that I can better understand your point of view.

                    • Easy. Deus Ex 2. They took a game that won tons of Game of the Year awards and dumbed it down to the point that it was playable on a console. Then they take the console version and slap it in a PC game box. The interface is horrible and clunky requiring far too many keypresses to do things like equiping a weapon mod or rearranging inventory. On the PC you just drag the mod onto the gun. Done. Then they botched the AI. Maybe because the XBox processor couldn't handle the load of a better AI. Who kno

                    • Here goes!

                      >Pleae provide a specific example
                      Starcraft:Ghost if you must have an example
                      >with reasons, so that I can better understand your point of view.
                      Why? Better control schemes. Better resolution. Better audio. More customisability. More functionality.

                      Basic comprehension is not always a talent for every person, I suppose.
                      I'll type this slowly for you, as you don't seem to be a fast reader.
                      If Starcraft Ghost was developed and optimised for the superior capabilities of the PC, all othe
            • "how about you name a console game that you think would have made a better PC game IF it had some things that the console version could not possibly provide. "

              How about ANY first person shooters? Console versions can't provide any form of reliable controls. With PC games, you have (and need) per-pixel accuracy, with console games, you have a pad that can go in one general direction, and a stick that has the range of about an inch (compare to a gamers mousepad, which is often about the size of a laptop if n
          • You seem to have completely missed my point. Or were you attempting to respond to the same person that I responded to?
          • Let's assume that some games play better with a specific gamepad than with a mouse/keyboard. I think this is a safe assumption. In fact, you could argue that knowing what the gamepad will look like is useful in and of itself - you can build on-screen help images, similar to what nintendo did in Zelda64, ZeldaGCN, and Metroid:Prime. Nintendo has always done a great job of making control schemes match the controller perfectly, and vice-versa. So, I would argue that those Zelda games would have been less-acces
            • You can buy a controller for PC which has many more features than any console controller. Furthermore you can purchase a model which you like as opposed to one which the company decides on. Thirdly they are cheaper. Now why you ask don't most games take advantage of this amazing interface? Because THEY ARE STILL not as good as a mouse. Also why would you pay money every month for a service which should be included in the price of a game? I have an X-Box but I modded the crap out of it.

            • PCs allow incredible amounts of customizeability. Windows knows what kinds of controllers I have. It shows me little pictures of them. I can program every button to do what I want. Then when I'm playing a game, I tell the game how I want it to work and it remembers that and CAN remind me what button does what if I forget. Many PC games do this.

              What if I want to introduce a game feature that only conveys in force feedback? It would be great for multiplayer games on the same display - it can signal pla

          • Please name a console game that wouldn't be better if developed to take advantage of the superior capabilities of a properly equipped PC.

            The problem is that it's so damn complicated to know whether you have a properly equipped PC or not. It used to be just a matter of Processor and Memory. Now you need a graphics card that supports the specific feature set that the game requires. Explaining to users why a GeForce 4 MX won't run Deus Ex 2 while a GeForce 3 will, for example, is a pain in the ass. (The

        • Kind of a tangental question, but since this is a thread strictly about multiplayer I'll ask. Do you actually play Civ 3 multiplayer? I tried it an it was kind of the ass. I love the single player and always have going back to Civ the first. My memories of my x286 are fuzzy now but I douby I played that at more than 640. ;)
      • One other advantage to a console: It's hard to use a mouse and keyboard while slouching on the sofa.
    • With PC's you have cheaters who like to mod their games and then get into the multiplayer environment and proceed to ruin it for everyone who is out to just have some fun in their limited free-time. At least with Xbox live I know that I'm in a fair environment where I don't have to worry about someone playing with a hacked version of the game that allows them to cheat and ruin the fun for everyone in the game. This is true with every single online game I have ever played on my PC or Mac including Red Facti
    • Without a mouse or keyboard?

      The PS2 and XBOX both have USB support. Both have third party keyboards available. Adding mouse support would be trivial. I am unfamiliar with the input methods available on the Gamecube, but I assume there is no technical reason why this could not be done there as well.

      If lack of keyboard and a mouse is all that is keeping the PC gaming scene alive, then consider it on death's door.

      There is nothing stopping console developers from supporting keyboards now. And give
      • "If everyone has it, then it's stupid for the developers not to support it."

        This is a really good point, and is pretty well-exhibited by xbox. The addition of a NIC and HD to the console as stock features was a great idea. Every game can count on them to be there, and it means that more developers are likely to use them (and for the HD, I mean beyond the purpose of a memory card - like saving large replays/data sets). Whereas with Sony/Nintendo, comparatively few games do online support, largely only first

      • Good points. The reason that FPS sucks on consoles is that they don't have mouse controls; they don't have mouse controls because the developers can't count on the users having mice, since the consoles don't ship with mice.

        I love FPS. However, I also am a Mac-guy, so, frankly, my choices for FPS are limited--I had hoped that a console would give me options that the Mac lacks. While true for many genres of games (RPGs and Fighters), my favorite genre of FPS sucks balls on a console. How people can play
        • Dunno about MechWarrior, but Halo is pretty easy on a gamepad. My assumption is just that you're very used to the mouse and keyboard combo, so it's a new approach to you and hard to handle.
          • Dunno about MechWarrior, but Halo is pretty easy on a gamepad. My assumption is just that you're very used to the mouse and keyboard combo, so it's a new approach to you and hard to handle.

            And if that is your assumption, then you really don't understand why we're complaining. When people use a joystick for FPSs on PCs (and they do) they don't use it to replace the mouse. They use it to replace the keyboard. The mouse is at least an order of magnitude faster for aiming. You must judge (1) how far to move t
    • I regularly play games on my projection TV (DLP so no worries about burn). I also play PC games on it. Picture quality isn't all that different, resolution and textures are better on the PC but consoles do OK too. Control, I agree though, keyboard and mouse are sometimes better than a console controller, I dearly wish that the PS2 versions of Medal of Honour supported my USB keyboard and mouse, some games do such as Half-life and Red Faction so I don't see why more console games don't support it.

      The res
      • Geforce 4MX is a piece of crap card. That's equivilant to a Geforce 2. A Geforce 3 is a better card than a 4MX, and the xbox has a much better video card than the 4MX - it's roughly equivilant to a Geforce 3.5.

        So, you have a bargain bin video card that doesn't support many of the rendering features of the game that many PCs and the Xbox do support. That would explain your crap graphics.
        • Geforce 4MX is a piece of crap card. That's equivilant to a Geforce 2.

          MX. A Geforce 4MX is equivalent to a Geforce 2MX. Mildly better. There are plenty of things that a Geforce 2 GTS can do that beat the hell out of a Geforce 4MX.
          • If it was equivalent to a Geforce 2MX, then wouldn't it be named a Geforce 2MX? :)

            It's "the successor to the Geforce 2MX" line, but still not as powerful as a Geforce 3.

            Upon further reading, I notice that it doesn't even have directX 8 support. Before, I just remembered that the card sucked. Now I know *just how much* it sucks...
        • Funny, it has absolutely no problems playing Max Payne 2 at high quality. The GF4MX420 I have in my system was cheap but it provides plenty of grunt for the latest games. I think the problem is with Halo itself, it is likely a poor port from the Xbox. Still, I think Halo is not that great a game, it is all a bit samey. I have pretty much given up on it and am enjoying Max Payne 2 now instead.

  • PC gaming will stay (Score:5, Insightful)

    by edwdig ( 47888 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @08:08PM (#7840813)
    Online console gaming won't hurt online PC gaming. PC gaming is really good for two types of games: FPS and RTS. FPS controls a lot better with a keyboard and mouse than with a controller, and RTS would be practically impossible with a controller (yeah yeah there was StarCraft 64, but it sucked).

    Consoles used more for games that play better with a controller than with keyboard & mouse. Online racing & fighting games will be a lot better on a console.

    As for the online voice chat, I actually think that's a disadvantage. Anyone play WarCraft 3 online? A large part of the chat during games is some guy who sucks cursing out someone else trying to pass the blame for the team losing. You don't want to hear the majority of the chat; most of it is mindless bickering.
    • You'd be entirely right except that Xox Live has less anonymity than PC online games (apart from MMORPGs). Every time you play a game on Xbox Live, you're logging in with the same name. Thus, if you're an ass during games people can easily avoid playing with you in the future, or slap a mute on you so they don't have to listen to the garbage. As a special bonus, it is possible to get booted off the network if an XBL admin happens to be in a game where someone is particularly vile - rare, true, but possib
    • I think when voice chat is best that you have to press a button to talk. It makes a huge difference by cutting out the junk. Otherwise you have some guy blabbering about the lag, calling you a cheater when you own him, calling you a loser when you get owned etc. This is a major problem with xbox live, socom2 especially and some teamspeak (teamspeak.org) servers.

      If you have ever played a strategy required game such as Americas Army(americasarmy.com, just released 2.0a), with voice chat and a good clan it

    • Re:PC gaming will stay (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      As for the online voice chat, I actually think that's a disadvantage. Anyone play WarCraft 3 online? A large part of the chat during games is some guy who sucks cursing out someone else trying to pass the blame for the team losing. You don't want to hear the majority of the chat; most of it is mindless bickering.

      At least it's better than my experiences with XBox Live... 12 year olds talking about thier penises.

  • The Reality (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ziggles ( 246540 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @08:33PM (#7841008) Homepage
    The thing is, although XBox Live may be a great service and very much liked by those who use it.. There are relatively few who actually do use it. I don't have numbers, but it seems to me that online gaming has a very small penetration in the console world so far. I just think it's important to remember things like that when hypothesizing the death of PC gaming.. silly me, right?
  • Cost.

    Really...isn't $70 a year for the ability to play games online a bit much? I know that Microsoft runs and maintains the servers, but the price seems high to me. Look at all of the PC servers that are free to use. Hell, millions of people use Battle.Net every day, and it's still free. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but I don't see where the $70 goes to.

    Compare that to PC gaming: with the exception of MMORPGs, very few games require a subscription for online play. Perhaps more importantly, most

    • Well, it's only $50. The $70 is the starter kit that comes with a headset, and MechAssault.

      Yes, it is worth the $50.

      Just like cable (or satellite) TV is worth paying for (for a lot of people) even though you can get stuff free over the airwaves.
    • Some of us still use bnetd despite blizzards arrogant assault on the project. We dont WANT to connect to Blizzard's Disconnecting, Buggy, Spam filles servers to have a friendly Internet match.

      Same goes for the other games we play round the offices (multinational).
    • The advantage is price. If you have a PC, and want to play online games, you need a good computer. Many slashdot readers have good computers, but to play the new releases with average detail settings you need to spend at least $1000 not including the monitor for a good gaming computer that you will need to update at the absolute least once every three years. You should upgrade once every 18 months.

      A console costs $200 not including TV. Three years of $50 play comes to $150 plus the additional $20 for

      • It's fair to say, though, that most people buy PCs for more than one reason. Even if you have a gaming PC, you'll probably use it for other things as well - Internet browsing, downloading music, or even *gasp* working.

        What other purpose does the XBox serve than as a gaming machine (and DVD player)? It really doesn't have one.

        While I didn't really intend to, I wrote my post ignoring the start-up costs. The XBox is only cheaper when you leave out the initial costs...but odds are if you have an XBob wit


    • XBox for $200, $70 for live = $270 for the ability to play online for a year.

      Computer for $1000, $0 for live = $1000 for the ability to play online for a year.

      Don't get me wrong, I have a computer and love it very dearly, but when I used to play games on the computer I kept having to spend $200 on a video card here, $100 on RAM there, and it was a pretty pricey hobby. Since getting an XBox, all I need to buy are games; the hardware never needs to be changed. My computer costs have also dropped, becau
    • Ok, let's go through the prices, shall we? =p

      XBL: $50 a year (no, not $70 a year. $50. Goto Xbox.com if you don't believe me).
      Xbox: $179.99

      -Decent- Gaming PC: $999 (and this garuntees...maybe a year or two of games before an upgrade. I won't even go into the price of a good gaming PC) Gaming Video Card: ~$250-$300 (not neccesary initially, but it will be in a year or two)

      So, let's do the math. If I don't get a good video card right away (and we all know you will need one at some point), I can have abou

  • Problem is... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by inkless1 ( 1269 )
    PC Online gaming seems to be dying. It's easier and easier to get a new game these days that have multi abilities and no real servers to connect to. If it's not Counter-Strike or some blockbuster everyone else has, your chances of finding a decent online game goes down significantly.

    One of the best online experiences I had was playing PSO on the Dreamcast. Friendly people for the most part (until, I guess, cheating sunk in) and you could always find a group to play with.

    $70/year is a bit steep, but so
    • It's always been that way, though. I can never find online servers for Maxis Massively Multiplayer Sim-Brick Online 2004.

      The other secret, hidden hope for PC gaming is the open source world. Americas Army, although not free as people might like it to be, is quite a good game, and it would be impossible to achieve on a console. I can't see any open source console games surviving very long, either. Linux and OpenGL, and the power of the open source community could well create a utopia of inexpensive onl

      • Yeah, right! (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        the open source community could well create a utopia of inexpensive online gaming unreachable by the console market

        And a heard of feral cats might rise up and sieze power in the midwestern states, forcing all men to endure back breaking slave labor cultivating catnip while the spin yarn till their fingers bleed.

        Other things that are theoretically possible but not going to happen:

        I could spontansiously tunnel to the other side of the universe and find I'm on an alternate Earth where everything is the opp

  • Niche market? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ScorpiusFan ( 651257 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @09:48PM (#7841594)
    I think PC Gaming will become more of a niche market or hobby, as the lure of sales from console games has attracted many publishers, but I don't think PC gaming will die away completely, since consumers like myself don't mind spending money for non-standard systems.

    I think the reduction of commercial PC game publishers may be a good thing, since hopefully this should provide a better market for quality developers to keep making titles they are passionate about, much in the way the PC game market had developed at one point (id software, the old 3DRealms, old Raven, Westwood Studios, many others).

    I don't mind paying higher prices for PC games as long as they have quality and can be customized.

    Currently I am enjoying Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic on my expensive laptop. Despite the lack of customization, the game is a quality title, and has so much variety that extra modding or customization isn't necessary.

    And I'm able to play a bunch of my old PC games on this laptop thanks to DOSBox and Windows Compatibility mode in XP.

    Now, if console makers introduced a mouse and keypad to their PC-like systems then I may be tempted to buy a console, since I will face spending at least $1000 or more to upgrade for Doom3 and Half-Life2.

    At least card and PC prices should drop some more while I wait for those titles to be released.
    • The problem is, people will have computers, and want to actually do something with them. Because of this, there will always be games for PCs, and it will be mainstream.

      Take a look at Final Fantasy Online -- you can be in the same world whether you have a console or PC. However, on a console, to play the game at all you need an optional hard drive, and to play well, you need a keyboard (which basically means you converted your console into a crippled PC at this point). The game works better on a PC (you
    • For people bitching about upgrades costing so much money...why not buy best bang for the buck hardware, and save yourself some pain?

      Everyone upgrades to a processor that has 10-20% more speed, with 2-3x the cost. Plot out the best speed/$, and buy that. Do the same with the video card. Buy into architectures where you know the roadmaps for the processor/motherboard have room to upgrade.

      Example: I got a Nvidia 2 motherboard that goes to *at least* an athlon 3200+, and got a nice 2100+ for $80. I got 1

  • killer features (Score:4, Insightful)

    by evilWurst ( 96042 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @10:33PM (#7841932) Journal
    PC gaming still has something that assures its survival: mods, patches, and expansions.

    1 - patches - if you can't patch your online console game, and it gets hacked, you're totally screwed. This is gradually being fixed by putting hard drives on consoles.

    2 - expansions - again, something being gradually addressed by consoles adding hard drives. Still, expansions for console games so far rarely stray from the extremes - they're either very very small, or they're so huge that they cost as much as a new game.

    3 - mods! User-created mods! The online gaming killer app! This is still the exclusive domain of the PC. Console makers still refuse to give the users this level of power, and if they *did* give us that much power, we'd start writing software for their systems and consoles would become equivalent to PCs.

    Mods vastly increase the useful lifespan of a game by keeping the experience from stagnating. They add replay value, sometimes years of replay value (remember good old Teamfortress?).
    • 1 - Patches - You actually can patch any LIVE! enabled game; and all of the ones I've stuck in have said "This game needs to be updated" or some such thing, and it does it right there for me. It then restarts the game, and I'm ready to go. Patches, but 100 times easier than on a PC.

      2 - Expansions - Ever tried XBL? Well, we got your expansions right there. I've got a new map and plane for Crimson Skies. About 20 new maps/gametypes/mechs for MechAssault (honestly, there's a y ton of additons for MA. I

      • Patches, but 100 times easier than on a PC.

        Easier than some PC games, but a lot of them either have autoupdate features that work pretty much as you described for the XBox, or you just download and run a single file. Easy.

        AND, most of these expansions are free, whereas the majority of PC expansions cost you $19.99.

        Actually, most extra content and even expansions are free on the PC too. You tend to only get charged for the really major ones.

        The combination of friends lists, voice chat, easy patche

    • remember good old Teamfortress?

      Remember?
      I still play it!

    • I'd post what you said, but then it would be redundant. ;)

      I would add to your list option #4 - levels. Between new mods and new levels, PC online gaming has everything over console gaming.

      My hypothesis is that ancient games like Half-Life continue to do well for one sole reason - there is a constant influx of new material. Most of this material comes not from the company that made the game, but rather from fans and hobbyists. This creates a whole community of builders and developers that adds an enor

  • Y'know, I think the only people who give a crap about the state of PC online gaming vs console online gaming are the people who write editorial pages for game magazines, in the hopes that their insight into the whole matter will give them fame, acclaim, and the phone number of the hottie in second hour class. Meanwhile the world will keep spinning, the gamers will keep gaming, and nobody will give a flying fig newton what the state of online gaming for their console or PC is, until they can't play X game on
  • You have to remember that not everyone is a "hardcore gamer" who considers his or her PC to be a $1000 gaming machine. Many people buy their PCs for more serious reasons, with games being just an added bonus. To someone who bought a computer for movie editing and picked up some games as a diversion, arguments that they should "switch" to a console are meaningless, and will come off somewhat like an argument that they should switch from a car to a bike because it offers the same horn-blowing capability at lo
    • Nevertheless a midrange video card with no other applications beyond gaming (unless you get a FireGl etc) costs more than an entire console.

      • Actually those cards are pretty useful for 3D modeling. I have a couple friends that are really into that.

      • Only now that current consoles are getting closer to the end of their lifespan and some cost $99 (which is the cost of the middle of the road video card. Radeon 9600 SE is $83 on pricewatch.com....)

        When those consoles were new, they were $299, which is the cost of a cutting edge video card - the video card that only the die-hard enthusiast (penis wagger) needs to buy. The fastest processors and video cards simply aren't required to play many video games, unless you're a) a sucker b) need 400 FPS.

  • Two Forces (Score:5, Interesting)

    by superultra ( 670002 ) on Tuesday December 30, 2003 @11:34PM (#7842293) Homepage
    There are two forces working against PCs and for consoles.

    First, the consumer. Yes, your PC has higher precision in FPS games. Yes, your PC gets higher FPS. Yes, your PC can display games at a higher resolution. Does the 26 year old bachlor who has broadband to have it (that is to say, porn) and PS2 and Madden 2004 give damn about FPS and 1600 pixels and 128mb of gpu ram yadda yadda yadda? Nope. It matters to us because, well, it's always mattered to us. Because we're PC fanatics. But better FPS and higher accuracy doesn't necessarily mean more fun, it just means a higher FPS and accuracy. Whoopie. Personally, I've yet to see anything on PC that eclipses the strinking visuals in titles like Viewtiful Joe, or Zelda, ICO, or Panzeer Dragoon Orta. Additionally, while consoles aren't existing within some kind of non-cheating utopia kingdom, it's a far better situation than the PC, particularly on Xbox Live. You only have so many credit cards for new XBL accounts, whereas IPs come as easy as power cycling your modem. Lag is typically better, as every player on XBL and in most PS2 games are required to have broadband. Most of these same games also require voice (which, granted and thanks to the seemingly shared low IQ on XBL, is sometimes detrimental) and have a built in unified awareness system (I know when my friend is online regardless of what game she's playing). Basically, the mainstream consumer is on the side of console onling gaming if they're on either side at all. It certainly won't be PC, which includes significanlty more hurdles to really play online than the console, even in the relative childhood of online console gaming. Path of less resistance, remember?

    Secondly, if they don't already - and many of them do - I think publishers will prefer console online gaming to PC. There's more control there, even if it's through the Microsoft controlled XBL. Particularly with XBL, there's less liability. Some guy sexually harassing little kids? No problem, you have his credit card, not some untracable IP that leads you to a library or wireless hotspot. There's also financial control. It's much harder to charge for a roster update through a PC than it is on a console, when you've stored their credit card number. Whether this is good for the consumer is debatable, but I think the cards, which are predominately in the hands of the publishers, are definitely stacked against PC gaming. If there is any altruism, it's because companies like Valve and id have a certain spot in their heart for PC gaming, not because they see any financial reasoning to do so. If you think this is the norm rather than the exception, you're the only one still getting $15 off coupons to Amazon.com every week in your email box.

    Face it: when it comes to at least racing and sports, consoles have quite easily dominated online gameplay (yes, I know how cool Live for Speed is). All that's left is RPG, FPS, and RTS, and I think console devs will be happy to leave RTS firmly in the grip of the PC.

    I think what most people who've posted are doing is examing their own habits with regards to online gaming but have largely neglected to truly examine the entirety of the video game market. Sure, PC gaming will always be here and for some ungodly reason people will still be playing dust on CS, and PC online will most certainly for the next year or two to come what with Half Life 2 and Doom III on the horizon. However, I'm as enamored with the net integration in PGR2 as the article writer is, and I think it's a glimpse of what can really be accomplished with online console gaming. PGR2 not only meets PC gaming, but it smacks in the ass, trips it out, and has surpassed what PC gaming should have been doing this whole time. If PC gaming does survive, it'll have been done with the mantra "evolve or die;" and I think in many ways it will begin to resemble console gaming (i.e. Steam significantly resembles XBL).

    /bow_head for moddown.

    • Re:Two Forces (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Txiasaeia ( 581598 )
      Pro for PC: it's free. Get a game, have the internet connection (and seriously, if you use your computer for games, who doesn't have the net?), and you can play it for free. But hey, if you want to pay for your console, the high priced games and however many dollars per year to play online, be my guest.
      • Assuming that a decent enough WinXP PC costs $500, after the cost of an Xbox I still have about 6+ years of XBL before it meets the cost of a PC. Last time I checked, PS2 online gaming is free after an initial investment of the network adapter.

        Even assuming that this hypothetical person already has a PC, the whole "free" thing is overrated anyway. PC online gaming does cost, although not in a dollar amount but in time units. Get the game installed. Try to play. Crashes. Download new graphics driver
        • I have no idea what you're talking about when you say that playing PC games requires endless tweaking. UT2003 last year was flawless, even without patches. I completed KOTOR without a patch. Just finished Age of Mythology: Titans without a patch.

          All this "endless tweaking" is a myth - if you have a properly configured computer (I can go from blank HD to fully up and running incl. office suite and various utils) in about 35 minutes. I haven't had a problem with hardware OR software in years.

          And when

          • UT2003 last year was flawless, even without patches.

            And those three CDs installed instantly like a console game?

            Finally, if you can afford a console, chances are you have a PC too. You're paying twice for basically one appliance. Why bother?

            PC and Gaming PC are not the same thing. My PC can run visual studio 2003 and 3ds max at the same time, but I can't play Halo, DX2, or most other new games at a reasonable speed. My xbox can play these same sort of games just fine.
          • You bother because console games have greater variety. There are many console games that, for one reason or another, would just not work the same on a PC. And the same is true vice versa. But whereas the PC world is pretty much ingrained with FPS, RTS, and simulation games (despite having a ton more variety a few years ago), consoles have many puzzle games, third-person adventures, 3D platformers, kart racers, and other genres that - for some reason or another - are absent on the PC.

            And regarding the p

    • I prefer iceworld to dust anyday. Why? Does anyone know why? I sure don't.

      That will be changing now that both me and my roommate are both on Xbox Live and he just got Counterstrike. On Xbox CS, people actually communicate with each other because we all can. I've never had a mic on my PC CS and neither do a lot of people. I find the quality lackluster compared to XBL. Voices are often muffled and people can be just as annoying as people on XBL.
      I just miss the chat via keyboard. And the UT 'headshot'.

      P

    • Personally, I've yet to see anything on PC that eclipses the strinking visuals in titles like Viewtiful Joe, or Zelda, ICO, or Panzeer Dragoon Orta.

      I've played Viewtiful Joe and Zelda, and seen a trailer for ICO. I don't think Joe or Zelda are anything special in the graphics department. ICO looked pretty nice though. But IMO, games like X2: The Threat, Lock-On Modern Air Combat, and Morrowind are far beyond anything you see on a console.

      Lag is typically better, as every player on XBL and in most PS

  • "Apple is dying."
    "BSD is dying."
    now
    "Computer gaming is dying."
  • Proprietary games with centrally located servers (like everquest) are going to consoles...the LAN based MultiPlayer games (Quake, Unreal Tournament, Call of Duty) will remain on the PeeCee for the forseeable future...

    There's a few reasons why...obviously, most ppl don't have more than 1 of the same console at home...many ppl have more than 1 PeeCee at home...or have friends with NoteBooks...then again, you don't have to pay for these online services??? which is a big hurdle for most ppl...why shoud I pay

  • Piracy and some other considerations (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Cochonou ( 576531 ) on Wednesday December 31, 2003 @07:27AM (#7844010) Homepage
    I think that utimately, piracy is what will kill (and in some extents, has already killed) the PC as a gaming platform.
    Let's face the facts: About everyone has a personal computer at home, and a lot of people play games, but nobody buys them (this is from an European point of view). Compare this to the console market, where piracy is present but much less widespread (it often needs some hardware hacks that all the users aren't willing to do). How are developpers supposed to make money from this ?

    But, you will probably say:
    "I buy PC games, sometimes"
    "Online games that require a cd-key defeat piracy"
    You're right, but these facts did not protect the decline of the PC platform, and in a way they contributed to its impoverishment. Nowaydays, the only games which you can expect to be successful on retail are : High profiled games that people will buy because they've been waiting for them for a long time (Half-Life 2, etc...) or online multiplayer games. In a short, RTS or FPS.
    PC used to be a wonderful platform for gaming, because the diversity of the games available was formidable. Turn based games, combat flight simulators, adventure games... Sadly, this is becoming less and less true.
    Hopefully, some developpers/publishers aren't ignoring the PC platform yet, releasing their games on multiple plaforms including PC (example: Worms3D is available on PS2, NGC, XBOX, PC and Mac) but I wonder for how long...
  • As someone running an online game, there is one thing that will set the PC apart from consoles in the online arena: niche games. I can make a reasonable (if lean) living off of running Meridian 59 for a few thousand players. There were probably more people playing Phantasy Star Online (PSO) on the Dreamcast, but that got shut down while M59 continues to live on. M59 is able to offer a serious PvP game (which is a very niche product) for a much more select audience.

    One benefit of the PC is that it's easi
    • No offense meant, but according to your FAQ:

      "There is one company in Korea that has a legal license from 3DO to run a Meridian 59 game server. That license will expire when the current license year term ends.

      Currently, there is no other legally running Meridian 59 game server."

      I'm not sure one Korean server is evidence that PC Online gaming is alive and well. But good luck all the same.
      • Ah, we need to update that. :) That was speaking of other international servers that were running the game from the old 3DO days.

        There are servers in the US and Germany currently. My company, Near Death Studios, Inc. owns worldwide rights (purchased from 3DO) and runs the U.S. version of the game. We also have a German licensee running a German version of the game.

        We've been quite busy with the game lately, updating the old software rendering engine to a more modern hardware rendering engine with neat

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