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Games Entertainment

State of the U.S. Arcade Industry 2004 417

Posted by CmdrTaco from the plugging-in-the-the-quarters dept.
Gamaroo writes "1up.com has posted an article on arcade game machines, the loss of the profit margin and the future of the industry. In their words: "There was a time when an arcade operator in America could buy a Ms. Pac-Man machine for less than $1,000, let it sit in an arcade, bar or storefront, and see that game make back over 30 times the initial investment. In 2004, that kind of profit margin is little more than a pipe dream.""
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State of the U.S. Arcade Industry 2004 More

State of the U.S. Arcade Industry 2004

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  • My Dream.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:02PM (#8305826)
    My Dream of always wanting to own an arcade is still existant, even if I barely make money. I remember spending hours a day because my parents both worked after school was done. I ruled at SF2, which I believe has caused me to be the genius that I am today, along with decent hand-eye coordination.

  • Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:02PM (#8305829)
    The fact is, players need to practice titles like Virtua Fighter to be any good at them, because games today are more complex than ever. Some titles -- specifically fighting games -- can even be overbearing for players, as these games demand a significant amount of time and money for a player to learn the gameplay intricacies.

    Exactly, you can sit down at Arkanoid, Centipede, Ms. Pacman, etc (the "old-school" arcade games) and immediately grasp 90% of the necessary game play. With newer games such as just about every fighting game after Mortal Kombat and racing games you need to A) sink $1.00+ into the machine to even play, B) read instructions on how to just do the most basic of moves, and C) you get about 3 minutes of playing time almost regardless of your previous skills with similar games.

    Golden Tee (which they don't seem to mention by name) has been taking off because it is absolutely addictive and it is ALL over the place. My group of friends used to play GT two or three times a day, every day. We were ok, nothing super spectacular (-20 or so), but we had fun doing it. Try sinking $12.00 into a racecar game and playing with four friends and that $12.00 is gone in less than 5 minutes, at least 18 holes of Golden Tee takes almost an hour...

    The home market I suppose has something to do with it. It happens to be driving the industry into making these super flashy games that they think will compete... They don't because of the never-ending costs. A $50 console game will allow you to play forever. $50.00 will give you 10 to 20 games of some random Racecar X 2054! arcade game.

    I'll stick to the old-school games and Golden Tee, at least I get my money's worth and actually enjoy the time spent playing.

    Cut down the prices to 25 cents again or make the games have better game play. That's what I think will work.

    Recently, hole in the wall arcades have started to be replaced by bigger entertainment centers like GameWorks and Dave & Busters.

    While these two places serve their purpose they aren't exactly what I would consider something I would prefer over "hole-in-the-wall" arcades. They are basically overpriced bars with a lot of arcade games for adults. Sure they have a lot of titles and they have the old-school games (up and out of the way usually) but they are more into serving food/drinks than they are about charging reasonable prices for the games. I am sure they make plenty money w/o having to overcharge for the games, yet they do. So instead of going out and blowing $5.00 on games you blow well over $50 + food/drinks. Bring back the old-school arcades!
    • Dave and Busters also seems to have as many if not more gambling type games as video games. Which I also think is an indicator on the lack of viability of the arcade video games as things stand now.

    • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Decaffeinated Jedi ( 648571 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:09PM (#8305918) Homepage Journal
      With regards to fighting games, don't forget that other factor that drives would-be gamers away from the arcades: the Fighting Game Master.

      You probably remember him as the guy who seemed to live in the arcade and was always playing the cool new game that you really wanted to try out. Eventually, you'd get up the nerve to challenge him, but he somehow selected a secret character that wasn't available from the main screen, and proceeded to unleash every special attack under the sun to dispose of you in about three seconds. Then, he looked over, sneered, and let forth a sarcastic "good game."

      I know the Fighting Game Master personally drove me out of the arcade and to the home consoles.

      • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Threni ( 635302 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:16PM (#8305995)
        > I know the Fighting Game Master personally drove me out of the arcade and to the
        > home consoles.

        The secret move you're looking for here is to remove your hands from the joystick, form a fist and punch the nerdy fucker square in the face. Then you can have a fair, balanced game with your friends.

        This special move seems to work on all hand to hand combat games.

      • Yeah! Pre-pubescent punks! (Score:5, Funny)

        by revscat ( 35618 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:28PM (#8306138) Journal

        I know the Fighting Game Master personally drove me out of the arcade and to the home consoles.

        Damn straight, brother! Personally, I quit playing when I became a college grad and was consistently beaten by those little punks whose balls haven't dropped yet, and have vastly more amount of time to waste practicing on these damn things.

        Yeah, it's humiliating to be smacked around with one of those super-cool 50 hit combo moves, when the person doing the smacking weights 50, 60 pounds less than you.

        Smart ass punks. Kids today man, I tell ya what. NO respect, man, NO respect.

      • Wow, brings back some memories (Score:4, Informative)

        by 88NoSoup4U88 ( 721233 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:19PM (#8306753)
        A looong time ago, we, in the Netherlands, still had Arcade coin-op halls. But nowadays , with consoles in about every home, all the arcades have been transformed in full-fledged gambling centers (only gambling machines left, no more gaming machines).

        So after reading the parent post I had this flashback of about ten years ago, when I would regurlarly visit those arcades, mostly to play the game 'Streetfighter II' (before it had its thousand sequels).
        The problem with playing in the arcade, and not being the most muscly guy out there, were the people that, without even asking : interrupted your 1 guilder play (about .5 dollar)by 'challenging' you.
        Now Streetfighter II had one very very funny glitch : Blanka, the beast guy, was able to (very cheaply) drive someone in a corner, and then only jump and use his high-punch : Which would be unblockable for humans : thus an easy victory was quickly obtained.
        Loved it to see that when those nasty challengers experienced once my 'leet powers' ;) of Blanka, but never felt the urge to challenge me after it.

      • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by shirai ( 42309 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:56PM (#8307227) Homepage
        I was with my girlfriend at the time and one of these virtua fighter type games was hooked up to the big screen. I wanted to try it out but there were a group of about five of these virtua fighter masters sitting around, playing, smoking and basically owning the virtua fighter joint. I had never played before.

        So finally these guys aren't playing and I play against my girlfriend and I beat her. So I start the beginner rounds with the computer with basically NO IDEA what I am doing when one of the masters challenges me.

        I can't play and my GF is saying get him and jump on him after he's on the ground. Well, I was just screaming back, "I don't know how! I don't know what I'm doing!"

        Embarassingly for them, I beat him and the next three or four of the virtua fighter masters, all the while screaming, "I don't know HOW to jump on him when he's on the ground!" which was a basic move that I saw EVERYBODY doing after the victim had fallen.

        I was finally beaten by one of the guys but they looked pretty pissed being beaten by a first time player who didn't even know how to do a kneee bash on a fallen victim. It goes down as one of my favorite moments in arcade history.

    • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rkane ( 465411 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:12PM (#8305946) Homepage Journal
      You're taking me back to the good old days!

      I can remember standing in an arcade with 10-15 eager young kids with quarters lined up at the bottom of the screen to play "Killer Instinct." The introduction of "fatalities" in Mortal Kombat and other such games was a huge draw. It became a form of domination and a way for us scrawny guys to actually put someone to shame.

      Back in the day, however, it wasn't common for you to "accidentally" stumble upon a combo that suddenly did 30-40% damage. Nowadays, games are getting so hard that combos sometimes require 10+ button presses to execute.

      It's a tough equilibrium to maintain- making games hard enough to keep people interested, yet make them easy enough that people won't get bored after 30 seconds (have you played the new Soul Caliber?)

    • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Joseph Vigneau ( 514 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:21PM (#8306053)
      I completely agree. Nowadays, the only way arcade machines get my quarters are if they are "old-school" (childhood nostalgia value, from the golden age of arcades: Pac Man, Tempest, Galaga, Robotron 2084, etc.), or Golden Tee. Home console gaming lets me play my games on my terms when I want to. Arcades these days are full of genres I generally don't care for: driving (cars, boats, snowmobiles) or fighting games, which are three minute multi-button mash-fests.

      As the article alludes to, the only way the arcade industry has any hope in the US is to add the online element, and especially a way to have the player feel like they are actually competitive within the game. There's no point to have a player ranking system where there's just no possible way I'll ever be better than 2324th place. A tiered system would really help to get the player more involved. I know I'd play a lot more if it got me from 24th place to 9th place, than if it got me from 2320th place to 1387th.

      So, 25c machines with simple, yet addictive gameplay, and online action for more complex games are necessary for the arcade to survive beyond 2010.

    • Regarding Dave and Busters: (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mongoose Disciple ( 722373 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:41PM (#8306266)
      I'm not really sure what D&B's business plan is these days.

      There was a time, circa 3-5 years ago, that my friends and I would go to our local Dave and Busters about once a week to have lunch or dinner and play a bunch of games. Every time we went there there'd be at least one new arcade game to play, and the food was always excellent.

      At the time, their business made a lot of sense to me. You have this whole generation of kids who grew up going to the arcades that's now grown up. You get them back in and make money off them as adults with a combination of the fun and nostalgia of their arcade days and great food/drinks. By making it this upscale, adult-oriented establishment you turn what was seen as a niche quasi-geek activity into something more acceptable and mainstream.

      Their restaurant/bar quality has gone way downhill in my opinion over the last few years, while the prices have gone up. Now new arcade games at the D&B are rare in the extreme (is this because they're buying less or because, as the article suggests, less are being made?). It used to be that as an adult professional I could make a case to even non-arcadeophiles to do a lunch at the D&B because the food was so good -- now that's just not the case anymore. I'm just not sure what the draw is supposed to be, now.

      The Gameworks I've visited still has fairly good food, though I can't say I like their layout/setup as much as the D&B's.

      Is it possible that one of the problems with the arcade industry is mismanagement of the arcades themselves?

      • Re:Regarding Dave and Busters: (Score:5, Funny)

        by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:39PM (#8307024) Homepage Journal

        Is it possible that one of the problems with the arcade industry is mismanagement of the arcades themselves?

        My bosses have assured me on numerous occasions that mismanagement is never a possible problem.

      • My biggest disapointment to D&B was when i went there... there were kids there.

        WTF?

        I guess if your with your parents you can go. But it just turns it into some chunk-e-cheeze type place.

        That place should be 21+ only.

      • Re:Regarding Dave and Busters: (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Urox ( 603916 ) <luthien3@juno . c om> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @03:31PM (#8308529) Journal
        Definitely a mismanagement.

        My SO and I would go to D&B to play particular games, one of them being Dance Dance Revolution. It cost $1.25 more than a local arcade, but we could get a decent bite to eat and there weren't as many kids running around. Their fatal mistake? They bought one of the DDR rip off / patent infringing PUMP machines and put it right next to DDR. Listening to the music was impossible when they both went at the same time. There was always a line for DDR which often spilled over into the PUMP machine.

        Then they did the unthinkable: they got rid of the DDR machine. I never saw the PUMP machine in use after that. They lost a serious money maker.

        Another problem with D&B is that they are control freaks. There is a time of day where anyone can go in provided they have someone over 25 with them. So your soccer mom goes in with her two boys and she isn't carded. I go in with my SO: he is carded and quite over 25. The guy insists on seeing my id. I tell him I'm with my SO and start walking on by. He asks if I have my id. I tell him he doesn't need to see it knowing full well the policy. He says something incomprehensible about checking my id if he sees me "unattended" as I'm walking past him into the place. Makes you wonder if some people are welcoming in a new reign of facist, paper-checking leaders.

    • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I remember sitting in an arcade while my parents went shopping, I'd have money say $10 and would love to play the games there. Games of Frogger, Rampage, etc.. cost 20c and I could play for the hole hour or so. There were lots of other kids around me, and we were all 'playing together'. Then the newer games game along, fancy 'teenage mutant ninja turtles' and the like, they cost $1 and the other games had been jacked up to 3x20c .. suddenly my time in the arcade was shortened. I would spend the time, lo

    • Re:Bring back old-school arcades/games. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Bendebecker ( 633126 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:46PM (#8306315) Journal
      I agree with you: the old school arcades rocked. There was nothing like standing in a dark smoky room with the sounds of video war being raged all around you. The real reason those places began to collapse though is not just becuase the games got more complex (any RPG beyond Cadash would never work in an aracde) but also becuase the atmosphere of those hole-in-the-wall arcades changed. You have a bunch of teenagers running around a darkened room, their pockets filled with cash. You just knew crime would become a problem and it did. The arcades began to be populated by gangs and older kids who would steal the cash off the littler kids. Arcades became a place were children should be afraid to enter. That's what led to the rise of the family arcade places (which were no fun for teenagers.) That's what probably hurt the arcades most - they became dangerous. Then gradually as the NES and the consoles began to not only match but outdo any game you'd find in the arcades (during the atari era the console games were cheesy compared to the arcades), people could no longer justify putting $50 in machines when they could just buy the carts. So one by one the places shutdown. The only thing keeping the arcade business running now, I bet, is the children who can't afford a console, the supermarket arcade machines (play video games while I shop), and the arcades that try to recapture the feel of what the arcades were in our youths (i.e. nostalgia).

  • Rightly So (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doesn't_Comment_Code ( 692510 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:03PM (#8305846)
    The door has swung the other direction. As a child, I wasn't the richest kid in town, and I didn't play arcade games much. It was a quarter a pop, and if you aren't much good (which you can't be without experience) your quarter doesn't last long.

    I remember quite vividly getting my first nintendo, and how amazing it seemed that I could play Duck Hunt for half an hour with no line, and no quarters.

    Why go back?

    • Re:Rightly So (Score:5, Interesting)

      by kevin_ka ( 753643 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305921) Journal
      Why go back?

      Having arcade games in Bars is fun that's why. You can combine drinking and playing (i.e. winner buys the next drinks). This is the reasen why our dorm bar has a Mame Box with lots of old games set up.
      But Mame just dosen't give you the same feeling as one of those old machines.

    • Re:Rightly So (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mattcelt ( 454751 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:19PM (#8306027)
      I don't know, I sort of miss the old arcades. It seems that unless you go to the beach (where all they have is crappy old games, sometimes not even pacman) or to some malls, there's no place to play more than one or two games. (I.e., there are only one or two cabinets to choose from.)

      What's worse is that the price for cabinets has gone through the roof. In 1989 you could buy a used Ms. Pac Man for less than $400. Lately I haven't seen one for less than $1500. The revival in their popularity has driven the price up substantially. It irks me too that the combination Ms. Pac Man/Galaga machines now charge .50 per play - why is it double the price to play an old game??

      I liked the old arcades (as opposed to home consoles) because 1) they didn't cost $50 for a game you might not like; 2) when you finished one, you weren't stuck with a used game you won't play again; 3) the arcades tended to rotate their stock every couple of weeks, so there was always a new game to play; and 4) there was almost always someone new to play against. You just don't get the same diversity with consoles.

      • Re:Rightly So (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Phillip Birmingham ( 2066 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:03PM (#8306553) Homepage
        What's worse is that the price for cabinets has gone through the roof. In 1989 you could buy a used Ms. Pac Man for less than $400. Lately I haven't seen one for less than $1500. The revival in their popularity has driven the price up substantially.

        It irks me too that the combination Ms. Pac Man/Galaga machines now charge .50 per play - why is it double the price to play an old game??

        Hmm, I wonder. Could the two be somehow connected?

      • It's called inflation... (Score:5, Informative)

        by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:10PM (#8306632) Journal
        It irks me too that the combination Ms. Pac Man/Galaga machines now charge .50 per play - why is it double the price to play an old game??

        That arcade machine hasn't shrunk. It still takes up the same amount of floor space. On the other hand, the arcade operator's costs have grown considerably. Everything from rent, to electricity, to maintenance, to wages, to whatever else you can think of has risen in price. It's called inflation.

        Higher costs, plus more idle time (How many people are queuing to play Ms. Pac Man or Galaga nowadays?) means higher cost per play. Simple economics.

        Don't get me wrong, I too can remember the day when you could play Space Invaders for 2 pence and I too shake my head when I see the cost of some of today's games (and, heck, I can remember the furore caused at school when the first moving cabinet games like Afterburner came out charging one pound per play) but I'm pragmatic about such things and I realise that that golden era of arcade gaming has gone and that being an arcade operator isn't the licence to print money that it was once.

    • Not so fast... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by gosand ( 234100 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:52PM (#8306400)
      The door has swung the other direction. As a child, I wasn't the richest kid in town, and I didn't play arcade games much. It was a quarter a pop, and if you aren't much good (which you can't be without experience) your quarter doesn't last long. I remember quite vividly getting my first nintendo, and how amazing it seemed that I could play Duck Hunt for half an hour with no line, and no quarters. Why go back?

      If you have to ask, you just don't get it.

      Seriously. I was born in '69, so I was there when all of the classic games came out. Maybe I am just being nostalgic, but it was an awesome time. Take your $5 that you saved and go to the arcade. You could play 20 games, if you didn't buy any chips or Coke. You could watch other people play. I remember when Pac Man came out. I bought the damn "Pac Man Fever" 45. I remember playing Moon Patrol and Joust at the Pizza Hut. I always went for the 5x in Lunar Lander instead of playing it safe with the 2x. Sinistar still scares the crap out of me. I spent many many hours playing Star Wars. Games like Gauntlet let you play alongside other people. I could go on and on. Check out Video Arcade Preservation Society (VAPS) [vaps.org] or the Killer List of Video games (KLOV) [klov.com] if you want to go back in time a little. And there is always MAME for a more hands-on approach.

      It isn't like home systems weren't fun, I broke countless Atari 2600 joysticks. But you just can't compare the classic arcade scene to home gaming or arcades of today. It just doesn't work.

  • This is exactly why we need (Score:5, Funny)

    by kurosawdust ( 654754 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:03PM (#8305848)
    Celebrity endorsements! Thats just the ticket to get the arcade industry back! Anyone up for a game of "Danza Danza Revolution"?

  • Games are expensive now... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 192939495969798999 ( 58312 ) <info AT devinmoore DOT com> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:04PM (#8305857) Homepage Journal
    First of all, games cost more now because the systems are more complicated. If you could make 30 times the current investment back on some of the more expensive games now, it would amount to over $100k. Second, Pac-Man is arguably one of the greatest games ever created in terms of popularity. Hence the reason the "game" icon on /. is what else, but Pac-Man himself. How much has Tetris made? A ton. Is there still room for profit? Yes. Does every game generate the type of profit that Pac-Man or Tetris did/does? NO!

    • Re:Games are expensive now... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:36PM (#8306213) Homepage Journal
      Oh, sure, there's a market. The laundromat I do my clothes at has had the same video machines in there for 3+ years. There's about 1hr of waiting, assuming you don't go somewhere and risk someone stealing your clothes or dumping them in a basket because you didn't get back in time. Nothing fancy, just toss in a Pacman or Asteroids and you've got quarters coming in. I drew the line back when they upped the ante to 50 cents a game. Charge me a quarter and I'll play a few games. Charge me 50 cents and I won't play any. Got it?

  • Profit loss... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DecimalThree ( 524862 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:04PM (#8305867)
    I remember back in the day when I'd drop a few buckets of quaters at the arcade. I could probably retire if I had all those quarters back! Now with the increase in technology and such "large" games being condensed to compact disks one would almost think that arcades "should" be obsolete. The future of the industry has changed because the technology has changed. Much in the same way the courier business had to change it's entire model in the 80's due to the big boom of fax machines. While the arcade business may independantly suffer a loss it is the end consumer reaping the benefits. That is one of the things that makes technology so wonderful.

    • Re:Profit loss... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:08PM (#8305905)
      Do you really enjoy sitting at home learning a game by yourself? I don't. The simple reason for this is that by watching someone else play (in an arcade or at least in person) I learn something new that I probably would not have figured out in any short order.

      Golden Tee is a perfect example. You learn all the trick shots, shortcuts, methods, etc, by watching some random guy just kick the shit out of the machine. He might not know what you know and he learns from you back.

      It's unlikely that you and your small group of friends will know everything there is to know like the rest of the world does.

      It gets you out of the house. You might be surrounded by other geeks but at least they are likely to be different people than you are used to.

      Why must video game playing be so solitary?

      • I disagree... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Ian_Bailey ( 469273 )
        While I agree that I don't enjoy playing as much by myself, I do not agree that I play with other people to learn more about the game.

        The way we learned tricks in games has changed over time. It started with learning from the masters as you talked about here, but it also began to spread through your networks of friends and the through the growth of strategy magazines.

        Today, I don't know anyone who plays games and doesn't go to GameFAQs [gamefaqs.com]. It remains to be seen whether we are just too lazy to do this on our
      • Golden Tee is a perfect example. You learn all the trick shots, shortcuts, methods, etc, by watching some random guy just kick the shit out of the machine. He might not know what you know and he learns from you back.

        Golden tee is also a good example of what is wrong with arcades today. The Golden Tee 2003 machine has the same crappy graphics that weren't all that great five years ago, but in this day and age are completely archaic. Compare it to Tiger Woods 2004, and I really don't see how you can plunk d

  • ...why, after a long day's work, would I then want to go somewhere else to pay money (two quarters at a time) to play video games? Granted, the arcade may be more social, but if I can pay Counter-Strike online from the comfort of my own home, for an initial fee (the purchase price of the game), it's just a better deal than pumping in quarters in for limited replay value.

  • There is only one reason for arcades now (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DarkFencer ( 260473 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:07PM (#8305888)
    There is only one reason for arcades now. Games that require special peripherals beyond keyboard/mouse/gamepad. They could be basic driving games, or they could be things such as Dancing Pads for DDR.

    I may drop a quarter now and then to play a good racing game in an arcade. I'm not going to drop a hundred bucks for a steering wheel/gear shift/pedal set for my PC/console.

    • Re:There is only one reason for arcades now (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bwalling ( 195998 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:30PM (#8306158) Homepage
      There is only one reason for arcades now. Games that require special peripherals beyond keyboard/mouse/gamepad. They could be basic driving games, or they could be things such as Dancing Pads for DDR.

      I may drop a quarter now and then to play a good racing game in an arcade. I'm not going to drop a hundred bucks for a steering wheel/gear shift/pedal set for my PC/console.

      The problem is that those "special peripherals" cause the game to be $1.00 a pop. Many of the games are timed, so a poorly skilled player is paying $1.00/minute to play the game. I bought a DDR mat on eBay for $20 and the game for $20. My wife and I have probably played 500 games on it.

      I'm not paying $1.00 a pop to learn to play a game. They're too damn complicated to be paying to learn it. There wasn't much to learn in Pac-Man or Galaga, and you definitely didn't have to waste a bunch of quarters to find out that up-down-fire-fire-jump would do a super ninja roundhouse, where up-down-fire-jump or any other combination will just get you killed.

  • Will Eat Dots For Food (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:08PM (#8305895) Homepage Journal
    Who didn't see this coming? While I have some issues with "quality" of games at home (mostly because few are original ideas), they now have the graphics and sound I went to the arcade for, even when I had a plethora at home. Playing over networks (whether mud or NSnipes) was exciting in its infancy, and had the same issues the online player has now (campers, noobs, thugs, spoilers), but short of a Game Cafe approach (which would be great in airports, BTW) I can't see where these companies and products had much of a future. That they planned poorly says something about their business acumen. (1. Start Company, 2. Collect Huge Salaries, 3. ...the medium advances..., 4. Profit?)

    I'm still happy with mining all the old 8bit games, though, so I can't get too worked up about the current state of games (most bore me just looking at the box, "Oh, another FPS") and haven't bought a game box in years. Longing for the golden years of games I've been working on some game builder ideas and maybe they'll amount to something in the coming months.

    There'll always be a tender spot in my heart for the hundreds of bucks I spent at Alladin's Castle, back in the day, and some of those really cool games, but most of them are available on collection CD's for $10 now. All that's missing is the atmosphere and that's unlikely to be coming back in any form, let alone a living room.

  • I remeber those days (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MajorDick ( 735308 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305919)
    My dad owned a small vending company, just him and my uncle, they even picked a know Italian name in the area so as not to be bothered by mob types (it worked)

    They started in the days of PONG and quit in the age of Tempest , They bought a COUNTERFIT pac-man when pacman was hot, not because it was cheaper (it wasnt) but because you simply couldnt GET a pacman without waiting on backorder, its patters were different , the kids loved it for that and would gamble on its outcome regularly, the gross for the machine was nearly 700 $ / week, 1/2 of that went to the "house" a roller rink. It was insane we would go every saturday moring to all the location, and collect, You know how much 2000 $ in quatrers weighs :) Tempes would clear $400/ weeke gross and the pinballs were about $200 / week. Asteroids twoards the end was only clearing $100 a week or so, so it was the first to end up in the garage, by the time I was a SR in High school 88 all of the machines were in the garage, it was great for parites 10 pins 10 vids a couple of jukes, lots of fun, I still conten I am the BEST tempest player that ever lived PERIOD, I would play for hours every day, If anyone knows what the LAST level looks like, befroe it recycles, I will acquiesce that you may be as good of a tempest player I was.

  • Hardware competition (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Cutriss ( 262920 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305923) Homepage
    One of the reasons cited for arcade losses lately is that home consoles have comparable power to the arcade machines, meaning that there's little reason to go to the arcade when you can just play the same game at the comfort of home. It's one of the same market transitions that the MPAA fears like crazy.

    I feel that's why Bemani games like Dance Dance Revolution and Drummania are so popular - They offer a unique experience that isn't easily recreated at home without a substantial hardware investment. Sure, you can buy softpads or metal pads for DDR, but the arcade is still where it's at for both ideal configurations and the social factor.

    Everyone always says that console peripherals never sell well...So, perhaps the games needing the peripherals should be tried more in the arcade. What games are really popular in arcades? Silent Scope...Bemani titles ...things like Mo-Cap Boxing, Martial Beat, and Police 911...and big-screen fighters.

  • MAME cabinets (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305924) Homepage Journal
    If they were able to run MAME cabinets with all of our fav games from the 80's, then they'd make some coins.

    CB

    • Re:MAME cabinets (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The MAME license [mame.net] specifies that MAME cannot be used for profit. There is a product thats intended for commercial use in JAMMA cabinets that has multiple games in it called Ultracade [ultracade.com].

  • Who Cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dasMeanYogurt ( 627663 ) <<texas.jake> <at> <gmail.com>> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305927) Homepage
    I can see why. I have no reason to go to the traditional arcade anymore. Between my PS2 and PC I have no urging to waste quarters at the arcade. To return to the arcade I need something different. Way back when the arcade offered better graphics and range of games. I want to see something I can't do at home, be it VR helmets/pods, floating holograms, or some other new fangled contraption.

  • Vintage Arcade Games (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dankney ( 631226 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#8305935) Homepage
    The old classic games are still a great investment for small establishments. In Seattle, at least, old pinball, Pac-Man, Tetris, etc., games are popping up all over in coffeeshops and bars. And they're doing great. In places where they sit alongside the latest 3D subwoofer-enhanced consoles, I see them occupied a lot more often. Is it because they're not $1.00 to play? Or is it because there's something intrinsically more entertaining about playing the older games in public spaces. One has to wonder, is the home console market (where complex 3d graphics reign supreme) fundamentally different from the arcade market? Or is what I'm noticing just nostalgia?

  • Really? (Score:5, Funny)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:12PM (#8305949)
    Chuck E. Cheese's is apparently still making money. Sure, they charge you $35 for a bad pizza and drinks, but then they give you 100 free tokens! Well... my 3-year old likes it, anyway!

    • Re:Really? (Score:5, Funny)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:19PM (#8306018)
      Chuck E. Cheese's is apparently still making money.

      Yeah, it's going to be a good long time before the home console can recreate the ball pit...
      • Yeah, it's going to be a good long time before the home console can recreate the ball pit...

        And even longer til the home console can recreate the smell of urine that's constantly wafting from the ball pit...

  • Ironic that games no longer exemplify ease-of-use (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:13PM (#8305961) Homepage
    In the eighties, games were the existence proof that computer programs could be accessible, quickly learned, and usable without reading a manual. What a pity that they, too, have succumbed to bloat, complexity, and featuritis.

  • Sad state of supposed 'arcades' today. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tigerknight ( 305542 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:17PM (#8305999) Homepage
    Likely because the games were actually FUN back then. Sure they were simple little platformers, but you could go for as long as you had the skill to survive. Not to mention the fact that everything now is almost a dollar or more to play for 2 minutes, thanks to timers and 'checkpoint' play there's just no way to feel satisfied out of the money you put in.

    I'd gladly throw $20 or more at an old quarter arcade from the early 90's (and would gladly do so again if they had some today), but today's 'arcades' simply aren't. You have a few hulking machines taking up all the space because shooters need distance from the screen, driving games need chairs and such, and heaven knows what else (silent scope et al that need rediculously large gear).

    Where $20 used to go 60-80 games (some games were $.50 *GASP!*), it'll now go maybe 15-20, and anything that's still the same old cabinet type is just a fighting game with no creativity or amusement to it at all. No thanks.

  • Japanese Arcades (Score:5, Interesting)

    by yar ( 170650 ) * on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:17PM (#8306000)
    I really, wish that our arcades were half as good as the arcades I saw in Japan. My (now) wife taught English in Japan through the JET program, and when I went to visit her I was blown away by the number and amount of games that they have (even in incredibly rural areas, although as you might expect Tokyo arcades were very impressive). The article mentions that one of the downsides to arcades here is that the game are targetted towards the Japanese market... but I don't know. Given the chance I'd play those games constantly. I did, and I don't speak the language at all. ^^;

    Having lower prices, as others in this thread have mentioned, would be nice... but in Japan, games were 100 yen a pop. Even so, Namcoland or Sega City would be welcome... There was a Sega City in Austin for a bit, but their game selection wasn't comparable to the ones I saw in Japan.

  • focus (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Docrates ( 148350 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:18PM (#8306005) Homepage
    To me, the whole point of arcades are to 1) be on the leading edge of gaming as a preview of things to come to the livingroom, and 2) a social medium to interact with other gamers.

    Now add the Internet, high quality console and PC games and better bang for your buck in the living room and you'll see why they're failing.

    If there's gonna be a place for Arcades in the future, they need to borrow a page from the Cinema history book: be the best possible experience, and have an edge, quality wise, in comparisson to the home experience. And then charge a premium for this.

    They're just plainly not doing this. The last few times I've gone to the arcades I haven't had more fun than playing at home and the prices just don't justify the gaming experience. This doesn't mean it can't be done, it just means that companies became lazy and just focused on milking old ideas instead of coming up with new ones. Just look at that SNK story that Slashdot ran the other day (from gamespot, look it up): They're still sticking to king of fighters!!!!

  • Who Here Remembers Old School Arcades? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Didion Sprague ( 615213 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:18PM (#8306008)
    My question -- slightly off topic -- but I'm really curious: who here actually *remembers* the old school arcade games? Pac-Man? Donkey Kong? Frogger? Tron? Pole Position? I mean, arcades back in the 80's were something pretty spectacular. I had the misfortune a few weeks ago of hitting a local place called 'Dave and Busters' (no idea if it was a chain or not) but I was *astounded* at how arcades have changed. I still have fond memories of Aladdins Castle in our piddly mall. Getting five dollars worth of tokens (around 25, I think), and spending the whole afternoon in front of Tron or Pac Man or even -- my little guilty pleasure -- "Journey": the arcade game named after the band. You controlled Steve Perry and his band mates. I don't remember it too well, but I remember we played it a lot -- and listened to 'Separate Ways' and 'Faithfully' a lot, too. Memories.

    • I remember... (the trance!) (Score:4, Interesting)

      by PotatoHead ( 12771 ) * <doug@opengeek.oAAArg minus threevowels> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:23PM (#8306810) Homepage Journal
      Old arcades. Musty places, the smell of electronics mixed with the high hum of monitors all sprinkled with the 60Hz buzz from the neons lighting the place.

      The first wave of games was the most interesting to me. Vector games, like Rip-Off, Crystal Castles, Asteroids, Tail Gunner, Armor Attack, and later Tempest!, all provided sharp clear visuals. Color cycling, or the intense bright spot used for bullets. These things made the games look exciting from a distance. That and the sounds... Walking in was always a good experience. The wierd sounds. You would hear the patterns and listen a bit more. It reminds me of whistling to a dog. They sense something in the sound that begs their attention. --That's how the old game sounds worked.

      Some raster games were good too. Galaxian, Defender (I am going to build a cabinet for that one, I swear), PacMan, Sinistar, Cloak and Dagger, Wizard of Wor, Gorf, all were plenty of fun.

      Most all of these games rewarded skill with playtime. This caused some problems, but hour limits took care of that for the most part. One arcade I played in would only enforce the limit if players were waiting; otherwise, you could play all day long. They did appreciate you buying a couple of sodas though.

      Handwritten high score boards were one feature I miss today. Simple name, date, time, score. Was a chance for a geek to get a bit of attention. Being on that board was cool --that also drove lots of sales because 'there could only be one' --per game.

      Thinking back about all of this makes me want to say a bit more about the experience I really miss, and that is the Trance!

      Old games, with their patterns and simple play, trigger, in me at least, a sort of high that comes with experienced play. You reach a spot where thought is action, and reaction. For a while, you forget the ongoing din around you and focus on the task at hand --what ever that may be.

      Early on, I remember discussions about the addictive nature of video games. Well, the old ones have it over most newer games today, in this area. (Many of the interactive games are close though. You can trance and burn calories at the same time playing DDR!)

      Almost all of the great old games, allowed good players to play long enough to really enjoy the experience. Game play balance was more in favor of the player then. Today, it is calculated to the 95th percentile (my guess, but I doubt I am wrong). Only a few players ever have the skill or the money to prevail. Almost like a casino.

      I remember Nintendo appearing on the scene about the same time I began to resent the Arcade a bit. They made games that actually ended. --Sometimes the ending was a long way coming, other times it happened right as you were beginning to reach mastery of the game. (Can't trance on a finished game, you know.)

      Today, we know that trend has lasted. Seems the arcade has diminished in that time as well. Could they possibly be missing something here?

      This dollars / per hour / experience thing is a mistake in the business model --at least at the amounts set here in the states. It simply costs too much to really enjoy the experience.

      • Old arcades. Musty places, the smell of electronics mixed with the high hum of monitors all sprinkled with the 60Hz buzz from the neons lighting the place.

        Don't forget the kids who knew all this secret bullshit information that they would share with you. Like "if you unplug the game and plug it back in, it will give you 99 free games" or "there's a switch on the bottom of the pinball machine that will turn off the tilt"
    • I remember going to the arcade with my dad when I was little (we're talking early 80's here). He'd give me a bunch of quarters to go play Centipede or PacMan, and then head into the back corner where the pinball machines were. Whenever I'd run out or quarters, I'd go find him, watching in awe for a while, until he'd finally lose his ball, and then get another $5 to go get more quarters.

      Those are some good memories... ... and even though I'm a damn good pinball player in my own right, my dad can still kic

  • Not worth it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:20PM (#8306030) Journal
    Probably redundant, but the last time I walked throguh an arcade (with people probably thinking I was a child molester on the prowl) the place was full of obvious gang members (clothing and gang signs and lingo were prevalent) and the damned games were 50 cents each. I've had similar reports from friends who have popped into an arcade for old time's sake.

    Other than the obvious answer of the boom in home gaming tech, I think many arcade owners did just what you suggest: they bought the games and sat back waiting for a profit. No one ever thought to innovate or turn an arcade into anythong more than a hangout, and hangouts will invariably go doenhill until it attracts only the lowest common denominator.

    Another problem might be the complexity of the games. You could walk up to Pac Man or Asteroids and pretty much have it figured out in a game or two. The downturn for me came with games like Mortal Combat where you had to read a book on the side just to learn all the moves. I got a hint that others were hitting their patience limit early on when I'd walk up to a Defender game and notice the previous player lost without expending a single smart bomb. ;-)

    I've wondered what would happen if someone opened an arcade full of emulated old time games (cabinets with PCs running MAME, assuming you could work out licensing for such a thing).

  • entrance fees (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Savatte ( 111615 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:20PM (#8306031) Homepage Journal
    There is an arcade near me that seems to have a relatively successful business plan: Get a bunch of old video games, skeeball machines, pinball machines, etc., charge only a dime to play, but collect an entrance fee. I'm more than happy to pay the 2 dollars for continuous access to lots of great games.

    Wave of the future maybe?

    • Re:entrance fees (Score:3, Informative)

      by tweder ( 22759 )
      Yeah, we've got that here too - it's called the Nickelcade. For $2.25 admission you can play for as much as you want. Older games are $0.05, newer games are $0.10 - and things like DDR are $0.25, which is still a bargain compared to the buck or two you'd spend for 1 game (3 songs) elsewhere.

  • Don't worry about it (Score:5, Funny)

    by Progman3K ( 515744 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:21PM (#8306054)
    Organized crime has found other ways to launder its money.

  • The only reason I play at an arcade... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zakabog ( 603757 ) <john&jmaug,com> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:23PM (#8306071)
    The only reason I play at an arcade anymore is the specialty games, things you can't get at home without actually buying a cabinet, racing seat, all that stuff.

    Games like Time Cop, I'd go to an arcade to play that because a light gun can't hook up to my computer (it can hook up to my TV but my TV is smaller than my PC monitor, in the arcades you can play it on a 50" TV, if I wanted to have the same experience at home it'd be over $1,200 ($900-$1,000 on the TV, at least $170 on a PS2 or any other next-gen console, and at least $30 on the game, with controllers, probably used.)

    There are racing games too, like a Ferrari F550 game, it's very fun to play, the seat shakes when you hit something and rumbles when you're on gravel, it has a clutch (I really like driving with a MT and it really adds to the experience) and it supports up to 4 players at once. Sure if I could make one, or buy one, or had the room (I live in an apartment with a pretty crowded bedroom), I'd prefer my own racing seat, pedal kit and shifter (dunno where I'd get one though) but that'd take a lot of money.

    I'm sure if there were more virtual reality type games at arcades more people would go to them too. If you've ever been to Disney World they have this one park that's just a giant arcade with a cover cost. Everything inside is free, but it's $45 or so to get it (VERY WORTH IT!) I love arcades like that because you can spend all day their, know how much you're gonna use BEFORE you get their, and play some of the greatest games out their. They have a bunch of team games, like one game where you sit inside of something that slightly resembles a tank, there's like 4 seats or so (maybe 6) and each one of those seats has a turret, then a commanders seat. The commander drives the "tank" across an alien planet to rescue some people (or something like that) and while he's driving the 4 gunners have to shoot at enemies. It's a great experience and I wish more arcades had games like that (but then again the average arcade would charge $10 for each play.)

  • Hobby (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheRealMindChild ( 743925 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:24PM (#8306087) Homepage Journal
    Arcade gaming used to be an easy worth while hobby. You could go to the local Arcade, Movie Theater, or even Grocery Store/Convienient Store, and spend a roll of $10 in quarters on it.

    Now I have to LOOK for video games, and all I see anymore are the sick and tired genres of "Light Gun", "Driving", or "2/3d fighter". Back when this stuff was profitable, every game seemed to have a little uniqueness to it.

    Its not hard to see why things are the way they are

  • They should hire the RIAA (Score:5, Funny)

    by dcocos ( 128532 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:25PM (#8306094)
    The reason that they are no longer making money hand over fist must be because of _piracy_ (ie MAME)

  • once again, following the porn trend (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JSkills ( 69686 ) <jskills@@@goofball...com> on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:26PM (#8306109) Homepage Journal
    Just like the advent of the VCR, people immediately got what they wanted in terms of porn - without having to go to a theatre. Watching porn at home is much more preferable to most people than doing so in public.

    With arcade games, the home systems initially (Atari 7800, Ninendto, up to the PS1) were simply not as good as the arcade versions. The PS2 however, produces games that are pretty much on par (and sometimes better if you read the article) than it's arcade counterparts.

    Arcade games need to provide people with something they simply can't get at home - and in my opinion it has to do with the user interface. Arcades should attempt to shift the focus to virtual reality type games - ones where you're sitting in an actual vehicle or cockpit - something where the hardware to produce the experience simply could not be replicated in the home environment. I played some wacky Mech game at the local Jillians, where we all were sitting in these darkened close-door pods and seeing nothing but first person view. The game was $10 for 7 minutes of action and then we all got to watch a video reply of all the action in 3rd person view. It struck me as a step in the right direction ...

    Oh and BTW if porn theatres want to get customers back, they'd also better provide a VR experience that we can't get at home ;-)

  • MAME (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:31PM (#8306167)
    In all seriousness, what the industry needs is a company to license x number of games from companies A, B, and C and put them all in one machine, using a hardware version of MAME.

    Think of it as Choice 10 done right.

    There is NO reason that I shouldn't be able to walk up to any one of 10 Choice 1000 machines in an arcade, plop in a quarter and choose the game I want to play by title, year, or genre.

    It should NOT be time based (huge mistake on Choice 10, and the reason I never played them).

    Ultimately these machines (which shouldn't cost more than any other machine to make, since I can make one for my basement for $1,000) should be made en mass by each of the major companies. Sega would have their own machine with almost every Sega game on it.

    The other change needs to be in revenue stream. The arcade should pay a flat monthly fee to rent the machine, not buy it outright, and then should pay per game, with the machine recording games played (including logging which games were played and how much).

    This data would be invaluable, and the business model would reward everyone.

    I'd tell you more, but I have to run patent this post...
    • I think you are right on the Money. If the arcade had several different control configurations, say one machine with a steering wheel, one with a couple of trackballs, one with joysticks and a few buttons, and perhaps one with the rediculous number of buttons that todays fighting games demand(how many damn fingers do you have?), I could see a nice spread of games with the controllers needed to play them.

      I know there have been rotating 'All-Controllers' out there, but you need to be able to have multiple

  • There are a few real arcades left (Score:3, Informative)

    by Peale ( 9155 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:34PM (#8306198) Homepage Journal
    FunSpot [funspotnh.com] in Weirs Beach, NH, is the second largest arcade in the US. Their classic arcade, though it runs on tokens, is a quarter a game. Much less if you get your tokens in quantity. Far, FAR less if you use the coupon on their site.

  • Testament (Score:5, Informative)

    by DragonMagic ( 170846 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:36PM (#8306217) Homepage
    I route arcade machines (place them out in locations to be played) and repair and convert them.

    There are two major costs of these machines. Monitors and PCBs. A standard arcade game uses a 19" monitor (cabaret, the smaller uprights, tend to use 13" monitors). These 19" monitors brand new range from $200 to $500, and used ones need to be in good condition to be useful, so they're not much cheaper.

    The PCBs, mostly the entire game, except for some of the interchangeable systems such as the NeoGeo MVS and the Naomi Systems, are quite expensive. Although these are mostly based on how new they are and how popular they are, if you're lucky you'll find a PCB for a game that may bring in quarters for about $50 on eBay. For a game like Tekken Tag Tournament, you'll be spending $250-$350.

    Then there's the cabinets. You need solid enough wood to hold the monitor in the upper part of the machine and make sure people can't easily access its guts. At least $75-$100 to build your own from scratch, and at least that much to buy a decent cabinet to convert to a proper machine.

    The controls are relatively cheap. Buttons are about $1-$2 each, $3-$10 for the joysticks, $25-$40 for the trackballs, etc. Since these are universal, buying in bulk if you do what I do is a way to save money without anticipating which games you'll have in the future.

    Okay, that's out of the way. For me, I'll spend between $300 and $1500 to purchase parts or fix-me-ups and rebuild them into fully working and restored games. To make it worth my while, I have to assume that I'll make that money back in under nine months, or I feel it'll be a costly venture. This is just my estimate, since I'm the only one who works on these machines, I have a much lower overhead.

    When you route a machine, instead of having them in your own location, the standard of the industry is split. That is, for every two quarters you get in a machine, one goes to the location and one goes to you. They pay for the electricity and just make sure that the machines aren't abused, and I keep them working and buy more machines. In the end, I have a higher cost, but I also choose where machines go more than the locations and can always sell them if I need the space or money.

    Yes, arcades will be unprofitable these days for one specific reason, and that is what I described above. To drag people into an arcade, you need to make sure they want to go there. When I route machines, people are going to the location mostly for the location first, and if they have spare change, or a need to play, they'll plunk quarters into the coin slots. For an arcade, they're going to the arcade mostly to play the games, so you need to make sure you have some games for those players.

    The investment to insure you have enough of the big machines or new machines, like DDR or SNK vs. Capcom, is extremely high. A DDR will set you back $15,000 easily for a two player machine with a new mix inside. Plus the space for this will drag your rent upwards. When I route, I just need to make sure there's enough clearance at the location, where they pay the rent.

    Then, if you have too many people coming just to play games at an arcade, you need to make sure you have enough copies of the popular games. If you have one DDR, one SNK, one Ms. Pac-Man, one Galaga and, let's say, one air hockey table, along with several other less-played machines, people will be waiting around to play the popular games, and may just leave and not come back. Therefore, many copies of these are very necessary, higher costs. For me, having one DDR, one SNK, one Ms. Pac-Man and one Galaga in a location will be perfectly fine, as there won't be as many people playing at once, and people will return to the location for the location anyways.

    In conclusion, arcades are a dying breed. They need to find a new angle to survive, such as what sportscard retailers did when sportscards were bombing (they got into Magic: the Gathering and other games), or what comic shops did when the comics indust

  • Console games too (Score:3, Interesting)

    by millahtime ( 710421 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:39PM (#8306238) Homepage Journal
    Even console games have changed a lot over the years. Kids today won't even play the old console games. I have an old nintendo and my cousins who are teens and preteens thought the controller was archaic. They won't even look at the game. They couldn't handle the lack of buttons and things they could do. So, it's the direction video games have gone.

  • why not get more arcade LANs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WormholeFiend ( 674934 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:40PM (#8306244)
    with the popularity of FPSes, why not have arcade machines (w/ comfortable seats and controls) lined up? Give like 5 lives for 25 cents to play Counterstrike, Unreal 2xxx, Halo, BF1492 or whatever...

    Just have each terminal present the list of games being played and enable it to connect to the appropriate server.

    it would sure beat lugging your whole computer system to a LAN party... and there wouldnt be any cheaters.

  • For those of you kids too young to remember... (Score:3, Informative)

    by VValdo ( 10446 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:45PM (#8306302)
    ..or those who want a big burst of "holy shit that's right!", here's a little sample [adelphia.net] of what an arcade SOUNDED like, circa 1981...

    By 1983, game audio was getting more advanced, and sounded a bit like this [adelphia.net].

    A couple more are here [adelphia.net].

    Pacman fever. It's driving me crazy.

    W

  • Arcades have been replaced by LAN centers. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MongooseCN ( 139203 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:47PM (#8306333) Homepage
    People want games where they can interact with other people. They want a more social atmosphere to go with their gaming and this is a gap LAN centers have been created to fill. Check out lanparty.com and igames.org for a listing of sites. LAN centers have competitions for prizes and money. Some even have overnight LAN parties. I think of LAN centers as social center, like a bar except for smart people. :)

    LAN centers are the next evolutionary step in the high tech social scene.

  • So who's surprised? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by digrieze ( 519725 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:55PM (#8306437)
    Back in the late 70's when I went to grad school I used to fix PAC-MAN, Donkey Kong, Tempest (a real bear to work on that French X-Y monitor) and other systems for pocket money.

    The games were easy to learn quickly so people could get addicted yet the upper stages would be challenging so they would keep coming back and not get bored. Also, there was a wide varience of themes so if someone didn't like shooting or bombing something they could just roll a marble around an obstacle course or something.

    Nowdays if you don't want to beat the s**t out of someones on-screen avatar or shoot someone with a realistic gun you're pretty much out of luck. I used to go to the arcades (I was addicted to the AREA 51 series, no I have nothing against shooters), but my kids didn't like any of it until a local Putt-Putt operation got Dance-Dance-Revolution (and now DDRII). I quit going because the arcades in the malls turned into gang hangouts. The punks spent the day practicing shooting and beating each other up on-screen. Another favorite activity was getting arrested by the cops in the arcade since the cops knew where to pick up the punks that beat up or shot someone the night before. Since my kids didn't like those jerks they had no desire to go there, no matter what was there.

    Back in the '70s I would fill in on shifts while I worked on machines (extra bucks). We had strict policies that the punks weren't welcome and that was what security was there to insure. Families were welcome, doctors, medical students, and college students were the advertised audience, and they dropped the quarters as long as the machines were running (which was where I came in).

    If they want me and my kids to show up and drop our money (and we have it to blow, thanks to many years of hard work) it needs to be a place I don't feel a need to bring a REAL gun.

    Incidently, we added poll tables, arcade games, foosball tables, and some tables and chairs to a side room at our church cafe' - it stays full. The problem with arcades is the same as the problems with bars, it isn't what's in there, it's who they let in.

  • Dunno about that... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Second_Derivative ( 257815 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:55PM (#8306446)
    The article makes reference to DDR at one point and I think that's a good example. I'm an avid DDR fan, and it is quite hard to get a home setup that is of comparable quality to that of the arcade system (Arcade DDR platforms are incredibly complex beasts -- there's several independent pressure sensors per arrow and the whole thing's very heavily ruggedised to withstand an immense amount of punishment). Besides, at home it just makes a huge amount of noise.

    Compare to arcades whereby one can play on decent quality equipment, nobody minds, and you even get to meet new people whilst doing so. Admittedly this isn't really true in the UK where I live, but you can see shades of this in the big London arcades. Of course there may be little we can do about it if it all does go the way of the dodo (indications are Konami are planning to axe the Japanese DDR series as well), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that arcades are doomed. There's something about arcades that you just don't get at home, even if you had the actual machine yourself.

  • Legislation is needed. (Score:3, Funny)

    by valintin ( 30311 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @12:58PM (#8306474)
    Oh my an industry in danger of losing money. We must pass some legislation to protect their monopoly. They have a right to their business. Legislation is needed to curb the use of home gaming systems that threaten this vital American pastime.

    AGAA should get a percentage of all sales of home game systems. They deserve this protection for all the bodies they are losing. Some of these proprietors spent lots of money in anticipation of great rewards, who's going to pay for that now? The consumer of course. If we don't start taxing Home Game Systems the arcade industry could collapse and we won't have any more arcade games at all.

    AGAA says, "Do your duty America, report pirate game time today. If your not dropping quarters your dropping capitalism."

  • ...related social issue.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:11PM (#8306639) Journal
    One related issue I believe is urban design. People are no longer required to leave their homes for an arcade experience. GOING To the Arcade for the 'marginally better' experience CERTAINLY isnt worth driving your car across the city (a long trip) just on a 'whim'. North Americans spend alot of time in their cars navigating our sprawling communities -- this encourages 'cocooning', people building their own private domains for all things. People just cannot be bothered to leave their homes and navigate the stinking, expensive, unsafe, endless roadways to get to the aracde.

    If our urban spaces were designed more wisely, an arcade would be 'closer' and more accessible. The benefit of social interaction (with strangers, neighbours and friends) would be more easily realized... not to mention access to all the best games.

    With Sprawl just getting to the arcade is a chore.

  • My stint as an arcade operator (Score:5, Informative)

    by pnice ( 753704 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:44PM (#8307081)
    I was a fan of DDR before the US arcade release a few years back and after seeing how much money it was pulling in at the metroplex Putt-Putt I decided to try getting into the arcade business.

    I went through all the steps, getting a business license, registering with the state and county and found my first machine....an import DDR 3rd Mix Korean machine. It cost me about $1500 for the game and shipping from Korea to get it here. On the same note, a new US version machine was about $7,500. I cleaned it up and worked out a deal with a local store owner and put the machine inside. At times the machine was pulling in over $500 a week. I was splitting the profit with the store owner (a suggestion given by other arcade operators) so it was making me $250 a week at times. On average I would say it made me about $125 a week. This was in a town of 30,000 people about an hour from any major city. People would drive down from the bigger cities just to play it.

    I eventually added a Beatmania IIDX 2nd Style machine to the lineup (later upgrading it to 4th Style) and a sit down Neo-Geo 4-slot. They made a nice chunk of change as well but nothing compared to the DDR machine. I ended up selling them off after a few years for more than I paid for any of them. It was a sweet little setup and fun while it lasted.

    I wish I could have started my own import arcade at the time but couldn't come up with enough funding to do so. That's my only regret. I had big plans but couldn't get any financial backing. Splitting the profit 50/50 sucked but at least it gave me a place to put the games.

  • Haven't played an arcade game in years (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sabalon ( 1684 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:44PM (#8307091)
    I think last time I played is the mall's arcade (now closed) had a Rastan game stuck off in the corner.

    I don't play anymore because everyplace wants a dollar to play and they all look the same. Hit anything that moves and see how fast you can hit button combinations. I think DDR is pretty dumb but at least it was original.

    Just like hollywood, now games are trying to get by on flashy graphics more than content. I agree with what others have said - get something that'll play the old games and charge a quarter. At least then you have variety. Plus I'd feel better about having my 5 year old play some game where you have to shoot the alien space ship or inflate the monster than decapitate your opponent.

  • Play quality vs Graphics Quality (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 4/3PI*R^3 ( 102276 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @01:50PM (#8307161)
    The biggest problem with the new console arcade games is that they are relying too heavily on graphics quality. The great things about the old console games was that since the graphics generally sucked (compared to today's standards) the games had to have real playability.

    In most modern games the rules are basically as follows:

    Figher : Kill everything in sight

    Shooter : Kill evrything in sight

    Racer : Get in front of everything and go really fast

    Remember how popular Pac-Man was? All you had to do was eat dots. But you had to figure out a pattern to avoid the ghosts and you were rewared with humorous little movie clips. Remember how popular Donkey Kong was? All you had to do was rescue the chick. But you had to figure out how to avoid the barrels, fireballs, pies, bouncing rivets, etc. Even for home games, one of the most popular was the Atari 2600 game Fantasy Adventure. This games had the worst graphics ever but it had great playability.

    This quality of playability is why MAME is so stinking popular. We can still play these old games. How many /.'ers still drop a quarter into a Galaga, Pac-Man, Time Pilot, or Space Invaders machine whenever they see one?

    If console makers want to rebuild their market they need to make the games easier to control but make it more mentally challenging to play. I still play the Mario Brothers games on my old Nintendo Entertainment System. Who needs an XBOX?

  • How to save the arcade game (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tgibbs ( 83782 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @02:02PM (#8307296)
    Arcades need to get together to set up a consortium to develop arcade games. Not the fancy driving games with a car you sit in, but straightforward standup quarter munchers and fighting games. All must run on a common platform, like the old SNK systems, but with a few sets of controls (which can be plugged into the console as needed). Major upgrades to be issued every 5 years or so.

    And the absolute rule: No ports to PC or console ever! You want to play these games, you go to an arcade. For titles not developed by the consortium, the manufacturer must agree to supply a "Special Arcade Edition" with levels or characters that will remain exclusive to the arcade.

  • Initial D (Score:3, Informative)

    by TheLoneDanger ( 611268 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @02:14PM (#8307464)
    I'm surprised that no one's mentioned Initial D. It combines a number of things to be successful.

    1) It is a driving game and thus has the steering wheel, seat, pedals and gear shift. You can have these at home, but it's expensive and doesn't feel as right.
    2) It lets you save on thin magnetic cards that you can keep in your wallet. I've got about 10 of them with different cars.
    3)Appeals to the ego. If you spend more money, you can upgrade the car on your card and raise your racing and battle level, which is based on how well you do against actual opponents. Get a high battle level and your car gets a glowing "aura" before battles.

    Essentially, a certain level of customization and the sense that you "own" the card means that you carry around a constant reminder of the game. Plus, it doesn't hurt that there is a good learning curve in Inital D that allows people to think they'll be as good as the very best players (who are themselves always finding ways to improve their best times).

  • Here is what arcade companies should do (Score:3, Interesting)

    by master_p ( 608214 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @02:35PM (#8307763)
    I used to hang out at arcades for mainly 2 reasons:

    1) it was a playland that I, as an adolecent, could relate to. It was cheerful and colorful, yet adult enough.

    2) I couldn't play the same games at home. The arcades were ahead of home systems in terms of graphics, sound and controls.

    I guess these reasons are valid for lots of others, too. So, here is what can revive arcades:

    a) make arcade places where 10 to 15 year old boys can hang out. This means no drugs, no drinks, no pimps, no bullying, etc...i.e. supervised places. In Japan, the arcade is a place for all the family.

    b) Bring back cool technology. Make 3d versions of old games. When I say 3d, I don't mean polygon-based, but real 3d games!!! Once upon a time, the arcades were the forefront of gaming graphics and sound. I would give my left arm for a 3d MsPacman, where I can look at the ghosts from all sides!!! the technology already exists...

  • greed, stupidity and sloth (Score:3, Insightful)

    by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Tuesday February 17, 2004 @04:02PM (#8308952)
    I've enjoyed arcades since penny arcades where some items were rally only a penny and pinballs were still a nickel. I played almost all of the pre-pacman games including putting a fortune into pong and computer space and numerous others, Here's my take on what's happened: 1) Greed. On the part of almost everyone involved. 50 cents to play an old pacman is an obvious example. You can write all the crap about floor space costing more that you want, but the truth is that these machines sit idle more now because the price is higher. The price has gone over the peak of the price curve, and the industry is hurting itself in trying to justify this greed on a game that is many times over paid for. The greed doesn't stop at the operators, however. The manufacturers certainly have hurt themselves. These things are electronics, damnit! Look at the thousands of bucks you had to pay for a 286 or 386 computer, barely supported with a tiny mono monitor and mono graphics card, minimal memory and an tiny hard drive. Now look at what you can get in the hundreds of dollars price range. While video games are not as mass produced as home PCs, they can take advantage of much of the same technology and reduction in prices. There is simply no justification other than greed that a game console should have go up so much in price when all of the electronics in it has improved so much and come down in price. And many of the game makers have paid the price, they got some fast money, then went out of business as they priced themselves out of business. One more factor that should also be mentioned is the heart of greed itself, government. Rather than let game operators make an income and pay income taxes on it, many states came out with excessive annual licenses for each and every machine. At $75 to $100 or more for machine, it's hard for an operator to justify putting an older machine on location and take a chance that his share of the take will not even pay the license and other fixed costs. Games that could be put on location instead end up in a warehouse somewhere, and the government makes no license fee and no income tax on them. This is the logical end result of taxing a game operator more than other businesses.

    Stupidity certainly takes it's toll. The games I see letely tend to be in locations that almost assure that they will no be played. Almost every WalMart around here, for example, has several games in an area between the entrance and exit doors. I have never ever seen anyone playing any of these games, and I never even go look at what is there. Yet they will still be in these awful locations next time I'm in the store. I'm not going to try to make a case that WalMart should have video games in it, but if they are going to bother at all then they should be put in a location where they would get some play, not in an area that gaurantees they will not. And plenty of other playable games get similar bad locations that make them sit idle. The fact that these games are idle so much does not justify a higher price for those who would play them.

    Downright lazyness on the part of the operators is certainly another issue. While this is worse on pinball, where even if you can find a pinball game you usually can't find a fully functional one, it is often a problem with bad buttons, controls, and monitors on a video game too. People have gotten turned off from the whole experience and customers have been lost, likely permanently.

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