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GameCube (Games) Entertainment Games

Nintendo Faces Continuation Of Seizure Lawsuit 93

Posted by simoniker from the financial-seizure dept.
Thanks to 2TheAdvocate for its article discussing a lawsuit against Nintendo regarding their videogames causing seizures. The suit, which has been in progress since July 2003, claims that Nintendo "failed to report that its games contain defects that presented a 'substantial hazard' and create an unreasonable risk of serious injury or death." In Nintendo's defence, they claim that they "instituted some recommendations... [including] a limit on the number of times per second a light can flash, and a limit on the brightness of certain lights and their duration on the screen." As a result, "the number of seizures reported to the company by consumers has dropped from 22 in 1999 to six in 2003." The trial will continue until later this month.
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Nintendo Faces Continuation Of Seizure Lawsuit More

Nintendo Faces Continuation Of Seizure Lawsuit

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  • Frivolous Lawsuit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Synic ( 14430 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:09AM (#8495754) Homepage Journal
    Please... people aren't suing the makers of picket fences for giving children epileptic seizures as a car drives by it, so why are they attacking video game makers? This is ridiculous... Next thing you know people with red-green color blindness are going to be suing city and state governments for picking red and green for stop-light colors (red-green color blindness means you cannot differentiate between the two colors).

    • Re:Frivolous Lawsuit (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AVGVSTVS ( 683378 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:45AM (#8495945)
      Actually, there is a town in upstate new york that has its stop lights reversed (red is at the bottom, green is at the top) and this has been a problem for color blind people who go by the position, rather than the color of the light.
      • You'd think the state DMV would crack the whip on them...
      • Syracuse, in fact, is where this is.

        The legend behind the light is:

        The light is situated at the top of a hill in a very Irish section of the city. Apparently, kids in the area weren't too happy about green being on bottom, and used to throw rocks at the light, requiring frequent replacement. So, the city finally decided to place a light with green on top.

        The real reason for this light? Who knows *shrug*
      • and this has been a problem for color blind people who go by the position, rather than the color of the light.

        Maybe for people who are 100% color blind (and see only in greys) but the majority of people are red/green colorblind (like my brother).

        That's why the green light isn't green, but aqua. My brother says red lights look greyish-orange, green lights look blue.

    • Re:Frivolous Lawsuit (Score:5, Informative)

      by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:51AM (#8495966) Homepage Journal
      It is rediculous. I've had my gamecube since christmas, and I've read on almost all documentation that some things may cause seizures even if you have never had them before... I've read in on at least 2 of my 3 games (the 2 made by nintendo, and the gamecube doc's itself. This I would conclude...is frivelous.
      • This is kind of off-topic, but it still has to do with the Game Cube.

        I am wondering how long until the Nintendo controller looks like that memory game SIMON, with 4 huge different color buttons. I mean seriously, could the "A" button on the Gamecube be any bigger? An could the "Z" button be any harder to use effectively?

        I have had a gamecube since it came out, and I have an Xbox also. I am an online shooter addict, and can only get a thrill out of games when I know I am playing against a real opponent,

        • While I like the size of the A button I agree, the z button has to be the most horribly placed button in the universe. The only way to really be able to use in in a hurry is to hit it with the middle part of your pointer finger (the middle being that part between the 2nd and third knuckles, if we number the knuckles starting with #1 being the one connected to your palm). The controller would be better off without that button at all.
    • Well I think in Japan they use blue lights for go, red for stop. Because they aren't stupid enough to try to cause car crashes when 12% (IIRC) of males have some form of red-green colour blindness.

      If someone did a proper scientific study of that and found changing the filters to be a sensible way to reduce accidents, the country should consider it on its own merits rather than being pushed by the courts. I dread to think how the EU would try to get itself organised similarly though...

    • What is it called when you have a hard time seeing red text on a green background or vis versa?

  • How was Nintendo to know? (Score:4, Funny)

    by TheScogg ( 609746 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:14AM (#8495778)
    And how was Nintendo expected to know that there games presented a miniscule risk of causing epilepting seizures??? I mean, that's not a normal part of the debugging process is it (buffer overruns fixed - check!, memory leak fixed - check!, doesn't cause seizures - "we'll just slip this one under the rug). Should Nintendo be expected to hire a panel of 1000 seizure prone patients to test the game? And the number one question is : Why aren't manufacturers of strobe lights being sued???
  • They want Haik to order Nintendo to put warnings about the possibility of video games triggering seizures on the video game packages and on the screen while the game is in use, court documents indicate.

    Thus annoying the hell out of everyone who isnt at risk

  • ok. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Unknown Poltroon ( 31628 ) * <unknown_poltroon1sp@myahoo.com> on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:22AM (#8495822)
    20 fucking poeple out of the millions that play nintendo?
    You know, it sucks to be them, but .000002% of pople will probably be alergic to everything.

    • Re:ok. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 )
      Exactly, I'm sure some small percentage of people are deathly allergic to fruit of any kind. Let's ban fruit.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Parents should know better (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wolssiloa ( 721045 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:27AM (#8495850)
    If the parents were reponsible, they should know better than to let their seizure prone children play video games. There's a warning on the inside of every instruction manual. Note to parents: read them! Nintendo shouldn't have settled out of court the last time they were sued. That was like an admission of guilt for them. This time the case should be thrown out of court.
    • Hell, they shouldn't even need the bloody warning in or on video games. If a parent has a child with epilepsy, that parent has a responsibility to be educated by DOCTORS. Any halfway decent neurologist would warn a parent and/or patient that certain types of epilepsy can cause one to have seizures based on particular visual cues/effects. That doctor would then go on to specifically talk about television given the fact that nearly every child spends time watching TV and/or playing video games.

      As others

    • Re:Parents should know better (Score:5, Funny)

      by filtur ( 724994 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @03:33AM (#8496289) Homepage
      Nobody reads instruction manuals, maybe Nintendo should repeatedly flash a big bright RTFM at the start of every game as a gentle reminder.

  • This is gay (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shadowxtc ( 561058 ) <shadow@beyourown.net> on Monday March 08, 2004 @01:54AM (#8495979) Homepage
    Why are we even considering discombobulating an entire industry over a tiny fraction of the population? There's already warnings on the games. And where the hell is a rational suggestion like having a "No-Seizures Mode" switch on the back of every console to severely cripple it's graphics engine?

  • You've Been Warned. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @02:00AM (#8496000) Homepage Journal
    Even the original Nintendo back in the 80's had the same issues and Nintendo warned back then it could have effects. I'm assuming that this lawsuit is from someone who did not know of a pre-existing condition and had a seizure.

    Funny I'd think they'd be thankful they had it in the comfort of their living room near people instead of when they see a electronic billboard or police lights in a fast moving car they're driving.

    First page of any game I've ever played Nintendo, PS/PS2, Xbox, Sega, and all the other assorted Ataris and such mentioned that their games might possibly cause seizures. It's play at your own risk folks not a excuse for a get rich scheme.

  • Quotes from the article... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FortissimoWily ( 703397 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @02:11AM (#8496039)
    "Since those recommendations have been instituted, the number of seizures reported to the company by consumers has dropped from 22 in 1999 to six in 2003."
    So, there were 22 seizures reported in 1999. That is a really miniscule number as it is. Then, in 2003, there were only 6 known seizures reported - in comparison, that's virtually nothing at all.

    How on EARTH can this family believe that "Nintendo should have reported that its video games were not safe and not suitable for use because they triggered seizures" , and expect that Nintendo should "rank all games according to the seizure risk, reformat all its games to reduce the chance of seizures, fund a nationwide advertising campaign to inform the public about the chance of seizures, allow all game owners to trade high seizure risk games in for low seizure risk games and to establish a refund program so everyone with Nintendo games can get their money back" ? This really looks to me like they're taking it way too far - it's not Nintendo's fault that their son had a seizure: Video games cannot and do not suddenly make seizures happen by some bizarro magic - there has to be a pre-existing condition for them to even take place. Nintendo shouldn't be expected, by anyone, to have to go back through all their games to 'reformat' them, either - if people have a condition involving seizures, and they get seizures from video games, then no amount of going back and making adjustments to hundreds of old video games is going to change that fact. And again, that fact is not Nintendo's fault (or anyone's, for that matter).

    And as for wanting the court to order "Nintendo to put warnings about the possibility of video games triggering seizures on the video game packages and on the screen while the game is in use" , well, that's just ridiculous. 1: They already have those warnings in the packaging and manuals. In Europe, they often include an additional seperate card/sheet to warn about seizure risks, AS WELL AS the warnings printed in every single manual for every single game and console released. And 2: Did they even consider that the majority (going by number of seizure complaints compared to game sales, as in the article), who don't get these seizures, might be annoyed by having the view of their game obscured by some on-screen warning they don't need? Actually, come to think of it, did these folks even check the warnings and manuals and stuff through with their kid before letting him play the game(s)? I would hope that they did take the preventive measure of reading the included warnings. If not, why not? They certainly seem worked up enough about their son getting a seizure to try and sue somebody who's not responsible for it over the matter.

    Also, how come they're not also suing the likes of Sony and Microsoft, and trying to demand that they do the same things as they're trying to demand of Nintendo?

    What's next? Are they going to sue the makers or wearers of stripey shirts for triggering their kid's pre-existing condition, too?
    • I recall that most of these seizures manifested themselves in children with no history of prior seizures, making the whole exercise of warnings pointless.

      While a minute percentage of children and adults are negatively affected by flashing lights and/or images the fact remains that it is impossible to tell from one circumstance to the next when a seizure will be triggered and which individuals will be affected.
      • Sometimes they did, but it wasn't that they weren't prone to seizures, it was that they'd never had one before, and the Nintendo games were the first thing to trigger them. The people who had them could just as easily have gotten them from one of those strobing flashes that some cameras had to reduce red-eye.

  • Six cases? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @02:26AM (#8496091) Homepage
    Frankly, I feel failed by our benevolent friends whose corporate headquarters is located it Kyoto, Japan.

    Clearly, they need to translate the "Battling Seizure Robots" video game adaptation so that North American children can share in the joy that is le petit mal!

  • Obligatory Simpsons reference (Score:5, Funny)

    by axolotl_farmer ( 465996 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @02:47AM (#8496164)
    Japanese Seizure Robots! [seizurerobots.com]

    (Don't click if you really get seizures!)
  • The potential for seizures from video games has been widely known for so long that I described a MegaDrive (Genesis for our US friends) as "Really earning it's epilepsy warning". The rate of seizures now is so low as to be attributable to random chance. How is this still clogging up the courts? Is it alleged that Nintendo hid known health problems on purpose like the cigarette companies?
  • Was about 16 years old, he was playing Soul Calibur, on the Cube. He took a short dirt nap, we called the paramedics, they hauled him out. He's all better now, case close.

    Actually I know people who wish this would happen to them, hell all the recent stuff out there for any platform sucks so baddly least this is somewhat exciting.
  • i wonder how many seizures windows has caused over time.
  • My all time favorite videogame, Killer Instinct [geocities.com] came with a warning sticker about the possibility of causing seizures in people who had certain medical conditions. That game was released nearly 10 years ago.

    Nintendo may not be perfect, but come on now. People who have seizures know the risks of playing video games.

    LK

  • There are worse risks (Score:3, Funny)

    by BenjyD ( 316700 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @06:24AM (#8496761)
    Upcoming court cases against Nintendo:

    "I nearly choked on my Zelda disk - Nintendo knew those things are dangerously small"
    "My son was so excited at completing Super Mario Sunshine he had a heart attack. Nintendo should put "calm down" messages on the sceen"

    This is like 0.00001% (6/50+ million?) of users and there have been clear warnings since forever.

  • Perhaps... (Score:3, Funny)

    by ColaMan ( 37550 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @06:54AM (#8496852) Journal
    they get some sort of rare seizure than causes them to sue the next thing they see... a nintendo game in this case.

    "This game is great!!"
    (cue strobe effect)
    "gahhhhhhh..(twitch).. SUE! I'll SUE those bastards for every cent they've got!!"
    • You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.

      > Kill lot of hype
      You attack lot of hype. You miss
      lot of hype counters with Marketing Drones
      You die...

  • Gee... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Metroid72 ( 654017 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @08:17AM (#8497201)
    I wonder if I can sue dance clubs too.. I don't see any warnings when I step in by the Bouncer that says "Exposure to disco lights can cause seizures". While we're out it, let's sue the Sun too... Every sunny day sky should display Exposure to direct sunlight can cause seizures . That's another reason why this litigious society has to be seriously revised.

  • Okkkkay.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Masem ( 1171 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @10:11AM (#8498102)
    I can understand the original complain, way back when before it was understood that video games with fast blinking lights could trigger seizures (but wasn't it found to be more from Pokemon than from video games?), but I'm sure (and just checked a couple of random GC games as well as PS2 and XBox ones) where the front cover of the instruction booklet has warnings on Seizures, RMI (repetitie motion injuries), shock, motion sickness, and laser devices. Heck, even this one GC game I'm using as an example has a warning about seizures on the back cover. And this game is definitely around 2003. A 2001 game (Luigi's Mansion) also has the same.

    It's one thing to be negligant, but I think Nintendo has done what they can reasonably expect to do here to protect those that might be sensitive to light before they buy the game, much less play it. Just like warning labels on the sides of over-the-counter mediciations and vitamins, and I've yet to hear of a suit that a person claims that one of these did something that was clearly on the outside of the package that he wasn't expecting.

  • Nintendo has done all they can do. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ectospheno ( 724239 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @10:26AM (#8498291)
    As the parent of a child with so many allergies that her allergy doctor is frequently amazed, I can sympathize with the families in question. Everyone wants their kids to be safe, especially if they have rare conditions. However, this lawsuit is stupid.

    There is only so much you can expect a company to do for such a small percentage of the population. For example, I expect food companies to properly label their products with ALL ingredients, to have 800 numbers to call if this isn't possible given the size of the package, and to warn about possible contaminants from other products manufactured at the same facility. This is a reasonable expectation that imposes no undue burdon on the company. I certainly don't expect them stop making the products my kid is alergic to or to include so many warnings in bold print across their logo that people stop using the product. That's just silly. The relevant information in small print on the back of the package is more than sufficient.

    Nor do I expect other kids to have to stop eating foods my child can't have. I'd appreciate it if they washed their hands every now and then but I'm certainly not going to sue them for eating a PB&J.

    Parents need to do their job, watch their children, and stop expecting the rest of the world to do this for them. Kids have parents for a reason. If the courts are in any way just then Nintendo will win this case.

  • The most dangerous video game would be a Gamecube version of a game with an "Entertainment Tonight" theme. Mary Hart, one of the hosts of the show, cause seizures [go.com] in some people.

    Imagine the seizure inducing capability that Nintendo and Mary Hart would have if they joined forces. They could take over the world! Note that a "Little Mermaid" themed game would accomplish the same purpose.

  • They should be glad (Score:2, Insightful)

    by funkify ( 749441 )
    The plaintiffs in this case should be HAPPY that their kid had a seizure while at home playing video games so that they could discover the kid's underlying condition in a safe place rather than finding out about it after a public seizure and serious resulting injury. I can see it now, the kid at 18 goes off to a rave at state palace in New Orleans and dies on the floor from having a seizure from the strobes and then getting trampled by all the junkies.

    These people are obviously just tornado bait coonies l
  • I think that this lawsuit is frivolous - the seizure warnings have been in place for as long as I can remember. And 6 seizures is an incredibly small number, for as many people as play video games.

    On the other hand, I can kind of sympathize with these people. A friend of mine had a seizure while we were playing Xtreme G 3 on the GameCube a couple of years ago. It was scary.

    I heard a strange noise coming from his direction, and when I turned and looked, I realized that he was choking, and had passed out. H

  • Warning (Score:3, Informative)

    by Daetrin ( 576516 ) on Monday March 08, 2004 @09:14PM (#8505254)
    From the inside cover of the first game manual i happened to pick up (F-Zero GX for GameCube):

    ! WARNING - Seizures

    Some people (about 1 in 4000) may have seizures or blackouts triggered by light flashes or patterns, such as watching TV or playing video games, even if they have never had a seizure before.
    Anyone who has had a seizure, loss of awareness, or other symptom linked to an epileptic condition should consult a doctor before playing a video game.
    Parents should watch when their children play video games. Stop playing and consult a doctor if your or your child have any of the following symptoms

    Convulsions - Eye or muscle twitching - Loss of awareness
    Altered vision - Involunatry movements - Disorientation

    To reduce the likelihood of a seizure when playing video games

    1. Sit or stand as far from the screen as possible.
    2. Play video games on the smallest available television screen.
    3. Do not play if you are tired or need sleep.
    4. Play in a well-lit room.
    5. Take a 10 to 15 minute break every hour.

    Actually, i've had the loss of awareness one on multiple occasions, it's called staying up too late and falling asleep while playing :)

    This warning is followed by several other similar although less detailed warnings: "! WARNING - Repetitive Motion Injuries" "! WARNING - Electric Shock" "! CAUTION - Motion Sickeness" and "! CAUTION - Laser Device"

    Nintendo has both made an attempt to eliminate the occurance of events most likely to cause an eplieptic fit _and_ put warnings in each and every game manual and in the instructions for the console itself i believe, which is a lot more than a lot of other companies do. Last i checked Netscape and IE weren't taking any precautions to prevent epileptic causing media from being viewed on the web.

    Sure, there is some _very_ small percentage of people who are prone to epileptic fits but who haven't had an attack yet who won't take the warning seriously, however that's hardly Nintendo's fault.

    These people are most likely going to have their first attack _sometime_, and given that reasonable precautions are taken it's not really the fault of whatever causes that first specific attack.

    For almost _anything_ you can find some small percentage of people for whom it causes problems. Attempting to sugar coat _everything_ so that _nothing_ can hurt _anyone_ is not only extremely unfeasible, it may very well be technically impossible.

    Conpanies should be legally responsbile to warn you of the contents of whatever product they provide. It's your job as the consumer to learn about what limits you need to live under and abide by them. Sure it will suck the first time you eat or try that thing that you have a medical condition involving, but pending the development of much more advanced genetic testing than we have now that's just the way life works.

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