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GameCube (Games) Entertainment Games

Metal Gear Twin Snakes Adapter Talks Future 46

Thanks to Game Informer for its interview with Silicon Knights' founder Denis Dyack, following this week's release of fairly well-received GameCube Metal Gear Solid remake, MGS: The Twin Snakes. Dyack says of the game: "I think we've met the watermark and I think gamers are going to be happy and looking at the responses so far... we think people are fairly pleased", and looks forward to the next Silicon Knights project, suggesting wistfully: "We'd really love to make a hardcore dark Zelda, but at the end of the day, that's something that needs to be discussed with Mr. Miyamoto and his group and that's his baby."
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Metal Gear Twin Snakes Adapter Talks Future

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  • Eternal Darkness (Score:3, Informative)

    by Hedonist123 ( 681091 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:47AM (#8550300) Homepage
    These are the same guys that made Eternal Darkness. Based solely on how well designed that game is, I will be buying Twin Snakes just because I know they are capable of making amazing games. Oh, and the reviews are pretty hot too.


    • Yup. They also did the original Legacy of Kain.
    • My understanding is that they didn't do anything to change the game from the original PS1 version other than clean up the graphics, and make the cut scenes a little more dynamic and flashier. From the little bit of it I have played, this seems to be the case. So I don't think their past performance should really factor in when deciding whehter or not to purchase this game. Look to the original developers of the PS1 version for that.
      • I haven't played any of the Metal Gear Solid games, but the every review I've read of the remake claims that Silicon Knights added into the game every improvement that MGS 2 had. Doing that required modifying the existing game to take into account your new abilities.
        • Yeah, that is true. But it was a known feature, stuff we have seen before. Silicon Knights is a great developer, but I haven't seen the innovation displayed in Eternal Darkness in the new Metal Gear game, and I don't really expect to. Still, if you haven't played Metal Gear on the PS1 or the PC, it is well worth picking up for the Gamecube.
      • Re:Eternal Darkness (Score:5, Interesting)

        by 13Echo ( 209846 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @12:05PM (#8551772) Homepage Journal
        They changed a lot. They added a lot of controls from MGS2. You can now hang from walls and use lockers. Snake has more moves. They added a first person mode. They also totally redid almost all of the dialogue. Of course, the graphics have been overhauled, and look fantastic. There are a ton of other things that have been changed as well; too many to list.
        • Again, this is a true statement. But they did not add anything that has not been seen previously in an existing Metal Gear game. If you ask me, it is kind of a waste of a talented developer. George Lucas changed a lot in the Star Wars special editions. But was it changed enough to warrant calling it a brand new movie?
    • I just picked up Twin Snakes yesterday. Fantastic stuff. It's especially a treat for anyone that hasn't played the original. Essentially, they've perfected what was already a fantastic game. If you liked the play and graphics of MGS2, but the better plotline of MGS, then this is just the right mix of both.

      BTW: Eternal Darkness is kickass.
  • GC modders beware (Score:5, Informative)

    by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @02:55AM (#8550314)
    GIO: This is the third GameCube game that I've played that have had a certain problem, and Eternal Darkness was the first one that this issue happened with, where I had some video and audio mis-syncings.

    DD: You modded your system didn't you?

    GIO: Yes.

    DD: Well, you're asking for trouble, you're playing with the synchronization of the laser.

    I just figured since a number of people here are hardware modders (I'm sure a good number of us have at least overclocked their PC processors) would be interested in this little bit.

    So if you want the full perfect experience, you'll have to play the game on a non-modded Gamecube.

    • Utter bollocks - what "mod" is he talking about? The US/Jap switch? That changes an "offset" deciding which bios in the bios chip to boot from - it does _nothing_ that has to do with the laser.

    • Re:GC modders beware (Score:3, Informative)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      my take on that: just fake pr.

      there's no mods for gc that would do anything to laser. in fact there's not any gc mods worth doing that would even be doing that, ever(the playing of copied games, and the linux for gc, happens through the broadband adapter as well..).

      makes the article seem a bit pr'istic
      • my take on that: just fake pr.

        Well, given that the interviewer admitted that the games worked fine on unmodded Gamecubes and didn't on modded ones, I think there is something to it, even if it isn't the laser calibration.
        • that would be the part that I meant to be fake pr crap.

          the laser calibration thingy wouldn't necessarely even relate to the issue, it was just implied. all he said was that it was messing with it - not even the nature of the 'mod' was discussed. not _anything_ else beyond "hey, it's modded, it's not the fault of our engines sucky syncronisation- it's this laser thingamagic syncro that it messes with".

          I don't take a 'yeah' as much agreement in situation like this, like, what could he do? lose the rest of t
  • "suggesting wistfully: "We?d really love to make a hardcore dark Zelda, but at the end of the day, that?s something that needs to be discussed with Mr. Miyamoto and his group and that's his baby."
    Let someone give birth to this baby! i grew up playing the first zeldas as a kid. I even bought n64 just to play one of the games. I would love to see where they take this charactor if it went dark. it would also be cool to play it on a pc...
    • Umm the original Zeldas(the first 3 and the first one especially) really had a dark undercurrent to them(had to read the manual in the case of the first two). They really brightened up around Ocarina(one of my complaints about Ocarina).

      Oh, and I'd be happy if they brought back throwing your sword when at full hearts. :-P
      • Re:Dark Zelda (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 13, 2004 @04:18AM (#8550578)
        Every Nintendo console Zelda has had dark tones to it.

        Zelda 1: Ganon and all the bosses are uniquely intimidating. Level design is such that you can anticipate boss encounters (map & compass), raising anticipation in the player. Dungeon music is hauntingly melodic, and some dungeons are just difficult enough that players can actually fear for their character. Dropping to one heart causes a low-life tone to sound repeatedly, raising player anxiety. Classic dark game in every way.

        Zelda 2: Dungeons and bosses are still intimidating, but in a less charismatic way than in Zelda 1. Relies more on difficulty than Zelda 1 to set dark mood.

        Zelda 3: Excellent use of music and sound effects. Goes back to Zelda 1's formula (not just in player perspective), but improves on every aspect of the original. Includes a whole dark world to explore, which incorporates both familiarity and enough unknown elements to keep the player interested. Great game.

        Zelda OOT: I don't know what you're talking about, this Zelda had its dark moments all over the place. The kidnapping of Zelda, the revelation of Ganon, the huge dark dungeons with freaky music, the oxygen/heat timers, the twisted/corrupt future full of walking undead, the mysterious backstory of Sheik, the revelation of the Sages, etc. This is a very serious game throughout many major story points of the game.

        Zelda MM: This game is so serious and gloomy that it's been described as depressing. Nobody has ever called Majora's Mask an overly whimsical game. I love it, personally, and it's the closest we've seen so far to a dark Zelda. Unlike Ocarina of Time, the player gets a sense that he is completely on his own for the majority of the story. Termina is a far more depressing place than the Hyrule of Link's youth in Ocarina, that's for sure.

        Zelda WW: When I finish this game (have had to stop mid-game due to a move), I will have comments on it. But there is no sign that Zelda has all of a sudden become a walk through the park, thankfully.

        If you ask me, any Zelda game that might take itself more seriously than Majora's Mask does would have to be extremely well done, otherwise it could be seen as an awkward attempt to "extremify" the series. That would be a major backfire.
        • Very well done AC.

          What I was trying to say was that Zelda 1 and 3(and to a lesser extent 2) were darker than the later incarnations. They set a darker overall mood.

          Ocarina, while yes, it had it's dark moments, didn't seem to have the same feel to it as the earlier ones did(Sure, there were some exceptions, but for the most part I thought it was light hearted). Majora's Mask, well, perhaps my impressions of it were tainted by Ocarina, but it's darker moments seemed more gimmicky than anything else. Wind
        • Don't you know anything? "Dark" is about trenchoats, bullet time, drug dealers, pimps, dream sequences where you have to walk a pixel-thin tightrope of blood and the worst voice acting ever.
          Riding around on floating lilies? That's for kids!
  • by Man In Black ( 11263 ) <{ac.wahs} {ta} {or-ez}> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:01AM (#8550338) Homepage
    This is probably going to sound stupid, but I have what I think would be a great way to please everyone with the next Zelda game, while inherently adding to the replay value of the game:

    Basically, you program the game in a fairly flexible manner so that change some of the graphics rendering methods on the fly, as well as switch some of the character models. Doing this, you could provide an option whether you want a cel-shaded cutesy Link, or a dark, brooding Link. You could probably get away with using the same models for the vast majority of characters in the game (except for probably Link, Zelda, and some other important characters), and for those that don't look quite right, you could probably swap some textures around to make it look a bit better.

    Of course, whether you chose cute or dark, you'd still play the exact same quest, but I really think that the entire "feel" of the game would be entirely different in each mode. It would probably be enough to make it worthwhile to play the game in each mode (as if you needed another reason to play a Zelda game a second time anyways).

    It doesn't seem to me that this would even be all that hard. I know some video cards are capable of forcing cel-shading and such into games that don't do it themselves... and these days, any programmer worth his salary would probably be using skeletal animation for 3D models, so swapping models and textures out shouldn't be a huge problem. It's not like I'm asking for two seperate games on one disc, just a choice of rendering modes and a handful of small changes to make the conversion complete.
    • Personally, I love the look of Wind Waker. It is the only game I have seen where I would consider pausing the game, printing the screen, and then procede to frame it and hang it on my wall. That game was as much fun to watch as it was to play. I do agree that a darker Zelda would be cool, that would not have to preclude cell shading, it would just require a different style of cel shading. There is plenty of anime that is dark and cell shaded. I know this doesn't really have much to do with your post, b
    • There was a lot of backlash when the cel thing was announced, and even I was a bit skeptical, but does anyone who played Wind Waker through honestly still have a big problem with cel shading? I was absolutely amazed at how good Wind Waker looked when I started playing. Now, I hope new Zelda games *are* cel shaded.
    • That wouldn't actually work. And even if it did it would look either silly or ugly. Miyamoto-san should just do like he always does, come up with a new Zelda game with an intricet and elaborate story that makes the player feel for the characters. I don't really care about the graphics, hell my favorite Zelda game is A Link to the Past. People can nag, and feel angry about what he choses to do in the next game as much as they want. But in the end everyone will love the game, and play it to death, and the
  • Please (Score:3, Interesting)

    by drewmca ( 611245 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @03:54AM (#8550510)
    Before everyone gets soiled while riding SK's jocks, let's take a look back at Eternal Darkness. An innovative game in a lot of ways, very clever on the novelty front, but actually fun to play? Not really. The actual combat and user interaction (besides where they screwed with you, meaning you sit back and let the game control you) simply wasn't that fun.

    I'd personally hate to see their version of Zelda. A lot of really dark cut scenes, with your controller shaking, and maybe some blackouts where you don't know if it's your TV going out or the game screwing with you. But no actually fun gameplay to keep you interested for the length of the game. Oh, and every enemy is a rehash of the enemies you saw before. (doh! doesn't that happen in Zelda already!)
    • As tempting as it is to say "yes" to any Zelda (the more Zelda the better) I can't say I trust SK at all with the franchise. Although Eternal Darkness was interesting in some ways, ultimately I don't think it was a very good game, and it certainly didn't capture my attention or compel me to play like Zelda does. Now look at what Miyamoto's team has done with Zelda, from Link To The Past to Ocarina to Wind Waker, they've made games that are not only innovative but also just so much goddamn fun to play. This
    • See, I enjoyed playing ED as much as I enjoyed seeing its innovation. It felt to me very much like a classic Zelda game - walk through more or less 2D dungeon and hit things with the sword. Some nice puzzle-based gameplay in there too.

      I mean, yeah, the gameplay itself wasn't as cutting edge as the plotting and madness effects, but it was still gameplay that fell squarely in a really classic tradition - indeed, the Zelda tradition.
  • Oh please, please, please, please make a dark Zelda! Most of us have followed the game since it's initial release. I think we're old enough to deal with more adult themes. Hell, we put up with the cell shaded adaptation. Which I'm not saying was a bad game, far from it. It would be a nice twist to the series. Much like the Wind Waker.

    Even if they don't get approval just rename it to Ezmerelda or something.. we can always just rename names :p
  • by Vexware ( 720793 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @05:47AM (#8550770) Homepage

    If you take a look at the game's different reviews [], you will notice that the average critics' score is 84%. Now I do not want to sound like some kind of demented fanatic - I know that 84% is a good score -, but in my opinion, the game really is underrated for what it is in terms of gameplay, longetivity, graphics, and story. I know I sound kind of biased, and as a fan of the PlayStation edition I'm sure I am, but surely Metal Gear Solid deserves more than that even as just introduced to new players.

    Firstly, such an amazing gameplay surely deserves a bit more acclaim than it is currently getting. Some will call it 'out-dated' - those are the people who haven't really played the game but just checked the original release date and wan't to sound as if they know something about it. Great gameplay is never out-of-date. Metal gear Solid was, and still is, a game that you could play for days on end simply because the gameplay is pure fun; there are so much ways to play through the game, and now, the game has all the best things from its sequel: amazing AI, new moves, first-person-shooting, and general increased environment interactivity. I could already play the original game for a long time without even getting near the pit of boredom; now I have even more ways to play the game, more diverse ways to get through it. How could that possibly not make this gem shine even more?

    Sure, once you will have played through the game a few times, you will be able to finish it in less than a few hours, but just being able to play through it in so many different ways will be what will make you come back to playing it over and over again. I just do not see how you can get bored of Metal gear Solid.

    Silicon Knights have greatly updated the graphics, and it is a real pleasure to play through the game with 'next-generation' graphics. It makes the gameplay even more pleasurable, even more enjoyable. Some people say that 'gameplay is more important than graphics'. Metal gear Solid: The Twin Snakes has both great gameplay and updated graphics; what more could one want?

    As for the story, well this is where the opinions are more diverse. The game is basically story-driven, and that is a bit of "the problem". Players of the original edition will remember hours upon hours - literally - of CODEC conversations, about nuclear war, government, terrorists and discrete love twists. Some will love the story, and I belong to that batch, but some will just want to get a refund because they asked for a game and not for a movie. The game's story is a bit like Marmite - you either love it or hate it - but you'll just have to do with it, because you can't skip the nigh-on 30 minute conversations, which you can probably do without. It seems Silicon Knights has not added a skip function, from what i have red in the reviews, and this is a feature they should not have overlooked, because of all the complaints when the game came out, most were about these "hellish" conversations. You will have been warned; if you wan't non-stop action, you will be somewhat disappointed.

    All I have to say is, beyond the long conversations which cut the gameplay every so often - depicting a story you may love to follow or love to hate -, if you do not buy this game, you will be missing out on a gem of gameplay, one of the pioneers of the "stealth'-em-up" revolution. In my opinion, this will be a future 'must-have' for GameCube owners, and the memories which will be forged will be worth much more than the scores the reviews give to the game.

    • by Dark Paladin ( 116525 ) * <jhummel&johnhummel,net> on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:48AM (#8551709) Homepage
      Most of the reviews I've seen that give the score 80-odd percent is because it doesn't "add anything new to the game" - they expect as large a change between MGS: Twin Snakes as, say, "Metroid: Zero Mission".

      Which I disagree with. Silicon Knights updated the graphics, sound, AI, and others, but they wisely left the rest alone. It's kind of like watching Casablanca, then getting Casablanca on DVD with voice commentary, multiple languages, optional color track, and then getting pissed because they didn't include a new ending where Rick gets the girl.

      The point of a "remake" should be fairly simple: update the graphics, maybe some new features that the developers would have done if they had the technology, and update that don't impact the original game's flow or storyline (such as Chrono Triggers monster gallery and multiple ending viewer in the PS One remake of the game), and that should be it.

      A remake is useful not to the "old guys" who have played the game, but to the new guys who've never had a chance to play the original and see what the "big deal" was about.
      • The point of a "remake" should be fairly simple: update the graphics, maybe some new features that the developers would have done if they had the technology, and update that don't impact the original game's flow or storyline (such as Chrono Triggers monster gallery and multiple ending viewer in the PS One remake of the game), and that should be it.

        But what about a remake fixing the predecessor's obvious and glaring flaws? MGS1 has/had plenty of them (far too short, very few areas, no real playability outs
    • It seems Silicon Knights has not added a skip function, from what i have red in the reviews, and this is a feature they should not have overlooked, because of all the complaints when the game came out, most were about these "hellish" conversations.
      As far as I can tell, hitting the A button in Codec conversations skips everything.
    • They really should have included the VR training disc (included in the PC version of MGS, a separate purchase for the PSX version). That's basically some insane number of different levels one can play through... it's just huge. If you like the gameplay, but hate the story, that would be a really strong option. Unfortunately it sounds like it's not included, which is a big bummer (I think it would've gotten much higher ratings if it had included the VR Training)
      • Yep. I easily spent way more time (and had far more fun) with the VR missions in MGS2: Substance, as opposed to the fetchquest- and interruption-heavy main game. Some players maybe can put up with that garbage game design enough to keep replaying the MGS games, but I am certainly not one of those people (and it sounds like most reviewers now feel the same way).
    • It seems Silicon Knights has not added a skip function
      You can press Start to skip most (if not all) of the movies. CODEC can also be skipped with vartious buttons.
  • Why Zelda? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by antin ( 185674 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @06:26AM (#8550883)
    If they are so keen on making a dark Zelda, why not just make a knock off? Ie a game where you have an extensive overworld with lots of stuff to do and people to speak to, multiple dungeons based around puzzles, various collectable items that let you solve new puzzles and get to new areas of the overworld, etc...

    Star Fox: Adventures was basically just that - Zelda but with with Fox instead of Link. I think the recent Sphinx game was similar to Zelda, BG&E was also kinda close, so have been a bunch of games.

    Personally I would rather Zelda gets kept by Nintendo and Miyamoto, but if Silicon Knights or anybody else want to make a Zelda-esque game, they should just go right ahead... I'll prolly even buy it.
    • Re:Why Zelda? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Krellan ( 107440 )

      A game that plays like Zelda 1, with an extensive overworld, lots to do, dungeons with puzzles, items that open up new areas, backtracking to old areas and finding more things you couldn't get to before, and so on? And, to top it all off, a very dark and brooding theme with an overarching plotline?

      Silicon Knights has already made this game!

      Blood Omen 1 [], for PSOne and other platforms. It came out in 1996. The first - and many say the best-playing - in the Legacy Of Kain [] series.

      The game has its

    • Put a turd in a gold box and call it Zelda and you'll be a rich bastard by the weekend.

      Smells earthy and vaguely resembles an ocnaria! 95% -Gamespot
  • by BigJimSlade ( 139096 ) on Saturday March 13, 2004 @11:05PM (#8558757) Homepage
    So we've got The Twin Snakes, we've got the mushrooms (Mario Sunshine, sorta).

    Now wears the Badger, Badger, Badgers?
  • "We'd really love to make a hardcore dark Zelda, but at the end of the day, that's something that needs to be discussed with Mr. Miyamoto and his group and that's his baby."
    Um... what? Miyamoto's baby? O_O. Did I just hear Denis Dyack give a subtle hint that SK is working on a Mario? Or maybe a Donkey Kong Platformer? Or maybe SK is working on Mario & Donkey Kong (formerly known as Mario vs. Donkey Kong) for the GBA? O_o
    It couldn't be.... or could it? O_O
    • ... never mind... I misread it as "there's something," and not "that's something"
      I can still dream, right? :/

Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success. -- Christopher Lascl