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Legend Of Zelda - Evolution Of A Franchise 31

Posted by simoniker from the two-dee-three-dee-four-dee dept.
Thanks to Nintendo Power for its transcript of "Zelda guru" Eiji Aonuma's speech at last month's GDC conference. Aonuma, who's "been doing work related to a game known as Zelda... for roughly eight years", from the N64 through the current GameCube iterations, discusses his pre-Zelda influences ("What kinds of games did suit me? Those would be Text-Based Adventures"), the "three-day system" in N64 title Majora's Mask ("[done] to make the game data more compact while still providing deep gameplay"), and the essence of the series ("Zelda is a game that values REALITY over realism.")
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Legend Of Zelda - Evolution Of A Franchise More

Legend Of Zelda - Evolution Of A Franchise

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  • Zelda is the best game of all time! Hands down. Anyone who has beaten the second quest of Zelda for NES should get a trophy or something.

    • Re:Zelda is the best game of all time! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Mr.Dippy ( 613292 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @07:11AM (#9005643)
      I still to this day haven't beaten one Zelda game but I do agree that all of them encompass what a great game should be. Yes, I know, my skills are lame. I remember playing Zelda for the SNES and for the first time being engrossed into a video game plot/story. If Nintendo was smart they would bundle the new Zelda with the Game Cube. I'm sure a lot of people would by the System.
      • Never played one Zelda game in my life. I've got some time to waste at night, so perhaps I should look into it.

      • Re:Zelda is the best game of all time! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Dot.Com.CEO ( 624226 ) * on Thursday April 29, 2004 @07:52AM (#9005751)
        I have been playing games for about twentyfive years. I have played thousands of games on many platforms. Most of them I don't even remember, some of them I played a lot, and a few I have finished. Having that in mind, finishing Ocarina of Time was the most memorable experience I've ever had playing a game. Actually, I only remember playing that game on my N64 (I somehow missed Goldeneye and I only remember frustrating attempts to jump on a snow stage on Mario 64)...

        One of those days I'll boot up Ocarina on Time on my Gamecube and I'll go through the experience again...

        • Instead of just playing the same game, get a copy of the promotional disc that came out during the presale of WindWaker that has Ocarina of Time and Ocarina of Time: Master Quest. Try your local used game store or eBay. The Master Quest is intense, and every bit as fun as the first time through.
      • If Nintendo was smart they would bundle the new Zelda with the Game Cube. I'm sure a lot of people would by the System.

        They bundled the Zelda Collector's Disc with the Cube for the holidays. That had Zelda 1, Zelda 2, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and a demo of Wind Waker.

        • It's a damn shame that was only over the holidays. I didn't have the time to play the games or much spare money at the time to spend on a Gamecube for myself. I'd buy one now if I could still get the same deal.

          I'm not sure what it would cost to just buy the Collector Disc on E-Bay or something, but I can't imagine it would be all that cheap. Additionally, I'm one of those neurotic people that strongly prefers to buy new whenever possible.

          • Re:Collector's Disc (Score:3, Informative)

            by Colazar ( 707548 )
            I got a brand-new shrink-wrapped one for $25 (including shipping) on half.com just a couple of weeks ago.

            You can get them for less if you're willing to go used.

            • Re:Collector's Disc (Score:2, Informative)

              by luserSPAZ ( 104081 )
              Or you can just order a year's subscription to Nintendo Power for $20 and get the disc as a "free gift." Yeah, you can just throw out the magazine like myself and everyone else, and enjoy the games.

    • Re:Zelda is the best game of all time! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mr_jrt ( 676485 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @07:50AM (#9005747) Homepage
      Not to mention The Adveneture of Link. Thats one damn hard game. Even gettign to the last palace from where you start is a mini quest in itself thanks to the lava plains and caves. ...and once you're there...unless yo u knwo the trick the grand palace IS, not in actuality, but in perception due to the brilliant design.

      One day I might even be bothered to dust off my NES and visit the bird knights and giant bobs again :)

    • Re:Zelda is the best game of all time! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CodeMonkey4Hire ( 773870 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @10:31AM (#9006920)
      I think that one of the successes of the Zelda dynasty is that you can kind of identify with the characters and say, "I would like to have this adventure." How many people ever wanted to be a fat plumber battling mushrooms and turtles (by jumping on them no less)? Give me a sword.

      Zelda seems to have the same staying power as Final Fantasy, except they appeal to different types of fans (with significant overlap mind you). The FF fans are probably the ones that are more likely to play PnP and they probably immerse themselves in many other CRPGs. The Zelda fans (from the NES days) are probably the ones who preferred games like Contra, TMNT, XMen, etc. but were actually interested in a more involving plot mixed in with their action.

      Now that I've said all that, I realize how much some people are going to disagree with what distinguishes Zelda from other games. Personally, I liked the fact that even though you had to go through a certain list of tasks, you could, to a degree, do them out-of-order, and sometimes this made the game a lot more interesting. (It can be especially tricky/frustrating in games where you have to go back and search a low-level dungeon because you couldn't get to a certain room before.)
      • I think that one of the successes of the Zelda dynasty is that you can kind of identify with the characters and say, "I would like to have this adventure." How many people ever wanted to be a fat plumber battling mushrooms and turtles (by jumping on them no less)? Give me a sword.

        And the green too-short tunic and tights and dorky hat? Forget it...
      • I always found it hard to pin the Zelda games into a genre. A good way to test it is to try to find another game right after you finish playing a Zelda. If you're thinking "I want another game like that"...well, good luck to you. The closest you can get is probably Metroid (which is every bit as good, IMO). It's common now to have a growing toolset/powerset throughout a game - you could even say that about getting bigger guns playing through an FPS. But most games either go full RPG, like Final Fantasy

  • What about the Cd-i (Score:3, Informative)

    by pnice ( 753704 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @09:39AM (#9006387)
    Even though Nintendo wasn't involved in the production of these games, you can't forget the craptastic Zelda games for the CD-i. parnasas.com [parnasas.com]

  • Reality over Realism ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SuperRob ( 31516 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @11:11AM (#9007346) Homepage
    This comment right here is why I love Nintendo's games. Everyone cried foul when Nintendo moved to cel-shading for the Zelda: The Wind Waker, saying that they wanted a more realistic Zelda. Some people are STILL saying that.

    As it turns out, The Wind Waker is probably the most realistic Zelda game I've played. But that has more to do with creating a world with logical rules, and then living by those rules. You can practically feel the wind swirling around you, things in distance fade out of view, but are still there (you can see FOREVER). The game may look cartoony, but it's a "real" world. It feels real, things react exactly as you'd expect.

    The problem with "photorealistic" games is that we know so much about what the real world is like, that anything that doesn't jive with our expectations is JARRING. We all immediately notice when a realistic human character doesn't look or move right. Developers have to become slaves to perfection as opposed to creating art. Complex physics, ultra-detailed textures, flawless motion capture ... it's all required, and VERY expensive!

    The new Zelda was free from those constraints. The only expectations they had to worry about was their own, and as a result, the world feels more realistic than anything I've played before, because I was able to suspend my disbelief and keep it suspended ... a rare feat in gaming today.

    • Re:Reality over Realism ... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by kisrael ( 134664 ) * on Thursday April 29, 2004 @12:37PM (#9008400) Homepage
      An interesting point, but one thing struck me as jarring: it doesn't escape from feeling like a contrived world, a world that was pretty much assembled just for my gaming pleasure. Almost no island existed just for it's own sake; it held some kind of treasure or dungeon or puzzle. There were no seafarers who were just sailing around for the heck of it. People in town felt like they were pretty much wandering around waiting to be interacted with it. And, just like Metroid, so much is arranged so that I won't run into it until I've sufficiently leveled up with certain gizmos.

      The Grand Theft Auto series are the only games that I've played deeply that shake this. Their cities seem to exist for their own sake, not for the sake of the player--the adventures are overlaid on this (interesting enough to be fun just run around and do random stuff) persistent world. Sure there are some problems, like the way cars disappear when your back is turned, but overall it has a certain type of depth I haven't seen in any Nintendo game.

      I think being set in a "real world" helps with that...it's easier than making a consistent universe from scratch, and then my own preconceptions help round out the missing details. I don't know if the "realism" of the graphics (i.e. straightforward and not particularly stylized or artsy) aids that as well.

    • Re:Reality over Realism ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MilenCent ( 219397 ) * <johnwh@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Thursday April 29, 2004 @01:59PM (#9009462) Homepage
      Yeah, I loved Wind Waker too. Boat travel felt epic. And say what you want about the time it took to go places. Here's the secret: The Great Sea is much less monotonous than Hyrule Field..

      It's true. Wind Waker's overworld has more monsters, more places to visit, more secrets (including at least one significant treasure in every sector), and nifty little mini-games to do like hit barrels for rupees, feeding the fish to get your map filled in, and just checking out each sector's island.

      Hyrule field is smaller, but there's much less happening in it. It's probably Ocarina of Time's biggest flaw, unless you're in Young Link's time at night the monsters are barely worth discussing. Peahats can be scary opponents if you only have three hearts, unless you just stay the hell away from them that is. And say what you want about Ganondorf -- he cleared the Peahats and Stalchildren out of Hyrule Field. The Evil part of his alignment is regrettable, but the Lawful part has its advantages.

      • I have to disagree. WW may have had considerably more collectables and secrets, but did there have to be SO many (printing out the complete list from GameFAQs runs to over 16 pages) and did they have to be SO sparsely distributed? The ocean was huge and sailing, while fun for a while and relaxing for a while after that, became intensely boring for me. Attempts to add features like octopi, rupee-gathering games and sharks and varying weather didn't alleviate this - give me some actual scenery!

        I'd have been

        • I have to disagree about the sheer number of things on the islands. Although I wish there were a bit more variety to them -- there are only so many times you can get excited about finding 200 Rupees. Heart Pieces are nice, but I would have like more equipment, like Majora's Mask's masks.

          On the other hand, to me this is the Zelda that finally fixed the problem, dating back to Link to the Past, of your wallet filling up too quickly. 5,000 rupees is a lot, and having to pay Tingle for those maps actually g
    • In (fiction) writing classes I've taken, they phrased it as not aiming for truth, but for verisimilitude.

      Of course, in writing classes, you get to use bigger words.

    • We all immediately notice when a realistic human character doesn't look or move right.

      You mean it isn't normal for people to stick their limbs through walls and the ground while walking?

  • Brilliant (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Funk_dat69 ( 215898 )
    I thought it was great how he described that he liked text quests the best - so that you can interact and affect the story, then realized that the same feeling can be infused into an action game.

    I think that elusive little attention to detail is one of the reasons Zelda is so great. You can cut down a bush or throw a rock and feel like thats actually part of the story. Traveling in that boat in that last game( even though it admitily got a little too time consuming) actually felt like a significant journey

  • N64 (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bckrispi ( 725257 ) on Thursday April 29, 2004 @02:37PM (#9010020)
    "been doing work related to a game known as Zelda... for roughly eight years", from the N64 through the current GameCube iterations.

    Wow!! Does anyone else feel old when they read this?? It hadn't hit me that N64 was released almost 8 years ago. My experience with Zelda is limited to the Original (1987?) and Adventure of Link (1989). I'd solved both numerous times and kept coming back to them. Even after knowing all the secrets, the replay value was still there. To this day, I can still hear the theme music playing...

    • If you haven't played A Link To The Past (SNES, and now GBA) then you should try to pick it up. One of the best Zeldas, IMO.

      • Agreed, though after those I'd skip the N64 versions and continue on with the Game Boy/Game Boy Color versions: "Link's Awakening", "Oracle of Seasons", and "Oracle of Ages". All really benefit from having developed storylines and mind-bending dungeons, and also from being inherently similar to Link to The Past (in terms of gameplay).

    • Re:N64 (Score:2, Interesting)

      by roesti ( 531884 )
      Try playing through the games in chronological order of when they were released. You'll be able to see then how the series has evolved.

      To this end, I can wholeheartedly recommend buying a Game Boy Advance - for A Link To The Past, Link's Awakening DX (hard to find, but definitely worth it), and two parallel Oracle games. Similarly, if you get a Gamecube, hunt down the TLOZ Collector's Edition, which has Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask, as well as the two NES games.

      Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but t

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