Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
GameCube (Games) Entertainment Games

Miyamoto Lecture At Smithsonian Documented 36

Posted by simoniker from the it's-a-me dept.
Thanks to 1UP for its report on last week's Smithsonian lecture featuring game industry luminaries, including Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto, and as previously mentioned on Slashdot Games. After Miyamoto's entrance, heralded with "hoots and hollers [so loud] that you'd think Natalie Portman had just walked out on stage at a Star Wars convention", the article quotes the Nintendo mainstay on his entrance to the industry ("When I originally I came to Nintendo it was to do industrial design... I wanted to make the new Rubix Cube. I never imagined that I would work in video games, especially since I don't like computers"), and his concern over making videogames accessible: ("Everyone should be able to pick-up a controller and play a video game... But still so many people think games are too complex. So I developed the L/R buttons and analog stick to simplify things.")
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Miyamoto Lecture At Smithsonian Documented More

Miyamoto Lecture At Smithsonian Documented

Comments Filter:
  • He developed the L/R buttons? Did anyone else notice these on the Super Nintendo?

    • Re:Back on the N64... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Dizzle ( 781717 ) on Tuesday May 25, 2004 @08:03PM (#9254399) Journal
      But he also mentioned the analog stick, which the SNES did not have.

      But his comment is wrong either way. Adding buttons doesn't make it easy to use, especially the way the n64 was set up. L/R/Z? Different grips for the D-Pad and stick? I'm not sure that the N64 was meant for people to simply pick up and play. Even the buttons were set up in a manner that wasn't too smart... they kind of went backwards when they excluded the X/Y buttons, especially given the setup of the SNES controller.

      But I do agree with him that people should be able to pick up and play, so on that note get rid of these ridiculous load times that are built in to the system. The splash screens are so annoying, especially after going back to SNES/NES recently and having a simple chime, then a menu in seconds. Of course, that's a limitation of the media.

      Life goes on.
      • Yes, his comments on the over-complexity of games were spot on. The real-life game of football hasn't changed much in the last 20 years. Why are computer football games today absolutely impossible to play?

        I dread it when I'm playing PS2 with my buddies and somebody pulls out a new game that I havn't played yet. It means I'm going to spend the next hour getting whooped as I try to figure out which of the 18 buttons and levers on the controller does what.

        I also don't get as much pleasure playing online f

      • Re:Back on the N64... (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        As noted above, I believe Miyamoto's quote is being misattributed,

        Anyway, I don't see the significance in your evaluations of the N64 controller. I prefer the multiple grips of the N64 controller to the compromised placement of the d-pad and analog stick on all current controllers (especially the left analog stick on all analog Playstation controllers, forcing the matched poor position of the right stick).

        Z-button was obviously only used as a replacement for either L or R, depending on controller orienta
        • What is a POST? Point Of Sale Transaction? On some consoles the splash screens are used to wait for the controllers to be detected (like 1.5 seconds on one evil machine) and as the required 2 second legal screen.

        • Re:Back on the N64... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Tuesday May 25, 2004 @11:04PM (#9255587) Homepage
          Miyamoto was probably counting on the diamond configuration to provide enough tactile feedback to know where your fingers are placed. The SNES controller was a genius of design. The introduction of L/R buttons was really intuitive, and the positioning of the 4 buttons in a diamond (like a D-pad) was so simple that people intuitively "got" which button they were over. Those four buttons were easier to use than the Genesis' 3 buttons.

          It's so good that every controller after it has borrowed all of its conventions. Diamond button configuration with shoulder buttons? Cube, Xbox, PS2? Dreamcast, PS1, N64? Even though it messed up my Street Fighter playing for years, the SNES controller really was the best.

          Lastly, system splash screens on modern consoles can serve multiple purposes on top of hiding disc load times (if that).

          If there was the option for instant boot, would you? Splash screens can be mildly interesting... they can display gameplay hints, serve up humorous in-game advertisements, or even play their own games... but there is no reason why someone would actively want to sit and watch a static image for fifteen seconds. And until techniques improve for more dynamic background loading, that's all people are going to get.

      • "But I do agree with him that people should be able to pick up and play, so on that note get rid of these ridiculous load times that are built in to the system. The splash screens are so annoying, especially after going back to SNES/NES recently and having a simple chime, then a menu in seconds. Of course, that's a limitation of the media."

        I have to point out that load times are almost unnoticeable on the GameCube, after the game finishes booting up. Compare Metroid Prime and GTA (3 or Vice City) on PS

    • Re:Back on the N64... (Score:4, Informative)

      by simoniker ( 40 ) * <simoniker@sl[ ]dot.org ['ash' in gap]> on Tuesday May 25, 2004 @08:14PM (#9254476) Homepage Journal
      The 'controller invention' N64 comment was added, presumably, by the person who wrote the article for 1UP (not by lovely Slashdot editors, although it is in the same bracketing format we use), but I removed it, because you're right, it doesn't seem to make total sense. Doh.
      • The 'controller invention' N64 comment was added, presumably, by the person who wrote the article for 1UP (not by lovely Slashdot editors, although it is in the same bracketing format we use), but I removed it, because you're right, it doesn't seem to make total sense. Doh.

        Well, the N64 shoulder buttons (and gamecube) are much different than the shoulder buttons on the SNES. The SNES shoulder buttons were buttons, but on the N64/GC they were analog triggers.

        That could've been what he meant.. it fits wi
        • I'm afraid they were still digital on the N64...

        • Re:Back on the N64... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Pxtl ( 151020 ) on Wednesday May 26, 2004 @09:02AM (#9257866) Homepage
          You're confused. It was the Dreamcast that had analog throttle shoulder buttons, although I've only seen a handful of games that exploit that.

          IMHO, the best gamepad layout is the PS2. First of all, the extra triggers are good for more complex games. Just 'cause children's gamedevs are too stupid to realize "you don't have to use all the buttons" doesn't mean that the pad shouldn't make them available to overcomplex games. Second, the dual-analog symmetry is so much nicer than the lopsided dual-analogs of the newer systems. Why are the analog sticks in different positions on the newer pads? It just works so well for so many gametypes - FPS? Leftanalog=aim, right=move, 4 triggers to jump, duck, shoot, etc. and all the old digital buttons are available for weapon switching and suchlike. Descent games even play like a dream on those. Meanwhile, playing FPS games on simpler pads results in a severe button shortage.

          OTOH, the N64 pad also has wonderful features. First of all, it deserves credit for introducing the analog stick (although that one was a little rough and wore down easy). Second, the 3-prong layout allowed you to play games one-handed - something none of the newer pads allow. For simple racing games like cruis'n this was a dream.

          Still, I just want people to bring back the Space Orb.
  • Game makers don't have to use all the buttons on a controller. If a D pad and 4 buttons are all a game takes, then the developers shouldn't feel the need to use all the buttons. There just there in case a game company wants to use them.

    At any rate, I personally don't think controllers are to blame, but that's just my $0.02

    • Re:Complex? yes! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by real_smiff ( 611054 )
      /me whacks parent with clue stick. if you've ever watched a young kid or even average middle aged or old person trying to play a game, you'd know that many buttons are confusing. whether they are used in the game or not is irrelevant, they'll be trying to push them anyway, and that includes wondering why some aren't doing anything.

      • Re:Complex? yes! (Score:3, Informative)

        by tomhung ( 781558 )
        I have watched old/young people play games. What they usually do, if they're older, is ask what a button does and/or how to play a game. Sometimes you'll come across someone who has completed a 4th grade education and they are able to RTFM. Granted, the toddlers tend to just mash buttons, but they don't understand the games anyway.

        All I'm saying is, you can't satisfy everyone, to few buttons and you limit game play, too many and inexperienced people get confused, at least at first. I'd prefer to have t

  • Difficulty and Complexity (Score:4, Interesting)

    by xCepheus ( 687775 ) <dntn31.yahoo@com> on Tuesday May 25, 2004 @08:29PM (#9254574) Homepage
    The trick when designing a videogame is allowing the average gamer to pick up the controller and have fun playing the game while simultaneously allowing a level of complexity and difficulty that will challenge even the most accomplished gamer... something that, not all but a majority of, game developers have seem to have forgotten lately. With the exception of a few games like Ninja Gaiden, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater and Ikaruga, today's games often lack the ability for a player to create and optimize advanced control strategies - often at the expensive of over-the-top graphics that serve as little more than eye candy. Miyamoto at one point knew this and it was the foundation on which the Nintendo Empire was built. Somewhat older Nintendo games such as Mario Kart 64 offered that. Any n00b can pick up the controller and drive around the track firing random weapons at other racers and have a good time. However with the addition of the mini-turbo world-class gamers have the ability to refine their skills on a ridiculous learning that can take up to several years to master (as evidenced by the guys at www.mariokart64.com). Other games that come to mind are GoldenEye and Perfect Dark... anyone, regardless of ability, can have fun in a GE or PD multiplayer match but the games offer players the ability to use advanced strategies that can take months upon months of practice and refinement to truly master.

    Ah, the good old days...

    • Re:Difficulty and Complexity (Score:5, Insightful)

      by oskillator ( 670034 ) on Tuesday May 25, 2004 @09:06PM (#9254855)
      I haven't played the new Ninja Gaiden, but what Ikaruga, THPS, and Mario Kart 64 have in common is that they give you numerical feedback for your control optimization. Shigeru Miyamoto's games have never provided that sort of thing. Even the scores in SMB1 and SMB3 were half-assed measurement schemes, far too easy to optimize for.

      While I appreciate a well-tuned scoring scheme that I can measure my improvement by, numbers are never what Miyamoto's games have been about. The reward of becoming really good at a Mario or Zelda game is that of your friends sitting on the couch behind you saying "holy shit, that was awesome."

      • Shigeru Miyamoto's games have never provided that sort of thing.
        Mario Kart 64 had involvment from Miyamoto, if I'm not mistaken.

      • The reward of becoming really good at a Mario or Zelda game is that of your friends sitting on the couch behind you saying "holy shit, that was awesome."

        Um, how about, "holy shit, that was fun." If I wanted a game that let me numerically assess how good I'm at, I'd count my dribbling of a basket ball on the floor for a minute, and then try to beat that record.

      • I don't know about THPS, but games like Ikaruga and Mario Kart 64 didn't require too many buttons in the first place. For Ikaruga you had the shoot button, the change polarities button, and the special attack button. Not much there... Same with Mario Kart 64. You had your brakes, accelerators, and fire buttons for beginners. You also had the lean left/right and camera changing angles but face it those weren't make or break buttons you needed to master.
    • However with the addition of the mini-turbo world-class gamers have the ability to refine their skills on a ridiculous learning that can take up to several years to master

      Agreed, playing Halo online is not fun at all because most of the people on there that have been playing since it came out 2 years ago. Still, someone even got good enough at Super Mario 3 (I think, it's been a while) to beat it in 11 minutes or something like that. Given enough time there are always going to be people who are willing

      • That Mario 3 video was done on an emulator, with save states being used to correct mistakes on levels, and various frames being sped up to speed the video up. That run was done with somewhere around 10,000 different save states being used, I believe.
        • True, obviously no one could be so lucky as to get through the bridge in the fire world where it randomly starts a level without having it start any levels. The point is, there were a lot of tricky things in the video that I've never seen anyone able to do. And that some gamers can get rediculously good at even simple games.

          As an aside, lets say the actual game time was 15 minutes (assuming about 4 minutes were cut by speeding the game up), and guy who made it did about 10,000 save-state points, that's 15

  • We need more one handed games (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MMaestro ( 585010 ) on Wednesday May 26, 2004 @01:55AM (#9256387)
    IMO the only time a game is truely a 'pick-up and play game' is when a newbie can play the game with one hand and be able to beat the stage (though he'll probably die a couple dozen times). Atari 2600 games? A joystick and a button, you could play with one finger and chin. Turn-based games, nuff said. Tetris, Super Mario Bros (early ones), Sonic are all pick up and play games. Looking at modern ones is kinda... well strange when you look at how many buttons there are. (ALL FPSs, RTS games, any online game, even the new Sonic and Mario games.)
    • I'm a fan of the new Mario Golf game for the Cube. It really can be as simple as using the analog stick to aim the shot, and hitting the green button twice to hit the ball.

      Of course, there are some pretty advanced dynamics going on and you can get fairly complicated with the control scheme...selecting the club, controlling top spin or back spin, hooking the ball to get around trees. It's the sort of game that can draw you in for hours.
  • But still so many people think games are too complex. So I developed the L/R buttons and analog stick to simplify things.

    Making things simpler by adding more buttons? Anybody can play an NES game (not necessarily well) with it's 5 buttons. Try and teach somebody who has never gamed how to play just about anything these days and you spend half an hour answering "What's this button do again?". Lets see off the top of my head PS2=13 buttons, XboX=13 buttons, GameCube=10 well Nintendo is still less complicated

  • Wasn't Will Wright speaking at that conference? Miyamoto's cool, granted, but some of the other designers are just as brilliant, if not so popular. Does 1up have transcripts of their discussions?
  • I attended the discussion and found it very enjoyable. Mr. Yee did a good job moderating - although the questions to the panel seemed to be a bit generic and occasionally confusing to the participants. Despite the well deserved attention to Miyamoto, I felt the best responses came from Garfield. In particular, he explored his work in more "traditional" board/card games and how they translate to the video world. I enjoyed his use of math / modeling for designing games - some people may be intimidated by t

Slashdot Top Deals

The rule on staying alive as a program manager is to give 'em a number or give 'em a date, but never give 'em both at once.

Close