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XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

Tecmo Upgrades Ninja Gaiden Via Xbox Live 87

Posted by simoniker from the patch-patch-patch dept.
joinder writes "IGN is reporting at that Tecmo will be releasing an freely downloadable upgrade of Ninja Gaiden via Xbox Live, including 'improved AI' and 'full 360 degree control of the [in-game] camera', as well as new enemies, bosses, and weapons. As far as I know, this is the first time such wholesale gameplay and content changes have been made on a console title - fortunately, the Ninja Gaiden upgrade is free if you have Xbox Live. Could this be a symbol of a positive trend to come, or a negative one that would equate to the bugfix/patch crazy world of the PC gaming world?"
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Tecmo Upgrades Ninja Gaiden Via Xbox Live More

Tecmo Upgrades Ninja Gaiden Via Xbox Live

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  • Isn't this a change in MS' patch policy? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by empaler ( 130732 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:04PM (#9521867) Journal
    I thought Microsoft would only allow patches that directly influenced online gaming perfomance?

    (Of course, I could be wrong)
    (Though very unlikely, I rule!) ;)

  • downhill, for x-box anyway (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dfenstrate ( 202098 ) * <dfenstrate@gmaiEULERl.com minus math_god> on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:05PM (#9521869)
    The reason why console games are so vigourously play tested is because once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over.

    This will probably only encourage laziness on the part of some x-box designers.
    • Maybe it's just the marketing-speak, but this doesn't seem like a bugfix to me, just like the extra tracks and cars in PGR2 weren't a bugfix. This content adds all sorts of new stuff(enemies, weapons, etc), and a few enhancements to the actual gameplay (camera and gamespeed), but none of those things are bugs. At least, no more than leaving CTF out of MechAssault when it launched (and including it in a download over Live 6 months later) was a "bug".
    • If "things going downhill" as a result of "laziness on the part of some x-xbox designers" means me getting awesome new content for a great game with a few flaws, I can only hope things go further downhill in the future.
      • What else is in there? If it's just an addition, that's great. But if these additions are in there to cover-up bugfixes, then this is not something I would want to continue.
        • But if these additions are in there to cover-up bugfixes, then this is not something I would want to continue.

          There aren't any bugfixes with this content update. Some people don't find Ninja Gaiden's admittedly fast-moving camera to their taste, but this isn't a bug. A new camera system is being offered as an alternative option for those players.

          AFAIK, no bugs have been found in Ninja Gaiden.
    • But you also have to remember that currently only about 10% of console users have internet console ability (don't know what the figure for xbox is exactly just quoting the sony exec from the other day, but its probably fairly accurate.) Anyways releasing a game that needs updating would be seriously shooting yourself in the foot as you really can not count on many people being able to update. Now console makers are saying that broadband will be "essential" for next gen hardware (which is why I think xbox is
      • I'm not sure what your actual take on this is, so If I'm mis-reading you- sorry about that.

        Ninja Gaiden is a very highly rated game- most sites give it well over 90%. (Gamerankings total is like 91.5%). This NOT a game that 'needs updating'. This is a case of refining an already great game.

        Adding camera control, and new enemies is a great idea. Kinda like Diablo II LOD adding 800x600 support and that entire 5th act. Did the 'fix' the graphics? Now..they just 'improved' the graphics. Because the gam
        • 90%? I disagree with that. It wasn't THAT much better than Shinobi. Which was ranked as 71%.

          Anyway. One of the few really, really, really fucking annoying things in Ninja Gaiden was the lack of camera control. I'd call this a gameplay patch to fix that problem.
          • Well, that's the cool thing about Gamerankings.com

            Shinobi was rated a 74%, by 68 media outlets and is the number 1,439 ranked game by gamers.

            Ninja Gaiden was rated a 92%, by 85 media outlets and is the number 46 ranked game by gamers.

            Okay- I am not going to say that these numbers have any hard-core science behind them, but they really are the best numbers we can use for a comparison.

            So, depending on how you value a 92% rating vs. a 74% rating- a large part of the world thinks that Ninja Gaiden is THAT m
      • Broadband probably will be "essential" for next gen hardware because storage will probably be in the form of virtual storage on Microsoft servers. The server only needs to store the users saved games, scores, and flags that specifies what downloadable content the user has access to or has paid for. The game developer's downloadable content is only stored once on the server but can be accessed by all users. Plus space can be provided for user created content. The advantage of this approach would be takin
    • once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over

      Pokemon GBA [slashdot.org] proves otherwise.

    • The reason why console games are so vigourously play tested is because once you make a playable disc or cartridge on a system, there's no such thing as a do over.

      Every time there is some discussion that involves the possible patching of games, someone hauls out this old cliche that console games are more properly playtested than PC games. It's not true.

      What's true is that consoles are easier to test for than PCs because PCs involve countless configurations of hardware and software whereas every Xbox/PS2/

  • I have no problem with Blizzard-style patches (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    And that's regardless of the platform. Blizzard has always tweaked gameplay to make it more balanced after delaying the game multiple times to make sure it would be finished upon release.

    I see absolutely no difference here - in terms of content (in terms of content, this is a whole other story). They're fixing issues that gamer had, and increasing difficulty for the online tournament.

    This sort of patch is great. Keep them coming.

  • If online updates for console games become widely accepted it might cause releases to be rush released and patched later, but what about the Thief AI difficulty bugs? Problems can still happen without the parachute of updates.

    I can't beileve there hasn't been more demand for developers to update Xbox games or add content.
  • Is an attempt to further drum-up support...

    They've pushed the price as low as they can go, and they're vehemently criticizing (but not disputing) reports that the XBox 2 will not be backwards compatible.

  • Camera control (Score:4, Interesting)

    by secolactico ( 519805 ) * on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:16PM (#9522016) Journal
    'full 360 degree control of the [in-game] camera'

    Dear god... make it so, make it so!

    The funky camera in Ninja Gaiden is perhaps the hardest aspect of the game for me (admitely, I haven't got very far in the game) and I constantly wish for "Super Mario Sunshine"-like camera control. Screw the first person view, it's not that useful anyway.
  • but, we don't want to bring pc mentatlity to consoles. If they had advertised this "upgrade" as a cheat code, woul we have cared? Is that even possible?

    • Re:It is a cool thing (Score:4, Interesting)

      by wibs ( 696528 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:51PM (#9522438)
      Here's a solution: charge developers a hefty fee for doing any of these patches. A very hefty fee. It'll still be cheaper and easier than a recall, but it won't encourage anyone to release a bajillion patches per game.

      • You'd need to make a distinction between additional content patches though - otherwise there's even less incentive for aftermarket content such as enjoyed by Crimson Skies, KoToR, etc etc. And if you make that distinction and exempt additonal content patches from fees, I can bet someone is going to try and sneak bugfixes in mixed with some crummy additional feature.

        YLFI

  • Can Thief do the same thing, then? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Blackwulf ( 34848 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:24PM (#9522125) Homepage
    Thief had a problem with their difficulty settings and they were able to patch it on the PC, but not for Xbox. Why? Because Microsoft wouldn't allow them to patch something that does not affect Xbox Live play.

    However, here comes Ninja Gaiden patching something that does not affect Xbox Live play, but bundling it in with new content.

    Could the creators of Thief just make new content and then just put the difficulty patch in with it, to get Microsoft's approval? Or did they perhaps not code the game with additional content in mind?

    • Re:Can Thief do the same thing, then? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Gaijin42 ( 317411 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:38PM (#9522294)
      Microsoft does not allow patches for non xbox-live games. It has nothing to do with what type of content the update is.

      Ninja Gaiden has an XBox Live portion already (head to head battles) even tho nobody uses it. That is the loophole that gets them their update.

      If Thief had a "vs" mode, or a level download feature, then they could fix the difficulty bug, even if nothing about "live" was modified.
      • The AC alledges that it has no head-to-head mode, so there's that. What all Xbox games are now is Live-aware. This allows players on Live to see what game you are playing, even if it is a single player game, and send you invites to play with them. Its rather nice.

        Call it a technicality or loophole if you will, but basically all Xbox games are now online, at least in this form. Its a nice requirement if you ask me, but Im sure some slashbot will find a way to hate on it.
        • this is a duplicate, I replied the same thing to the AC. but since he was an AC, the conversation stops!

          I used the wrong terminology, but the game does have a competetive mode (see below):

          In any case, my point is still valid, the game had a pre-existing live component that was being used.

          Xbox Live compatible: Tecmo's revered development team, Team Ninja, has created a unique Xbox Live feature within Ninja Gaiden. The Master Ninja Tournament, developed specifically for the game, will allow players to part

        • What all Xbox games are now is Live-aware. This allows players on Live to see what game you are playing, even if it is a single player game, and send you invites to play with them. Its rather nice.

          All games are not required to be XBox Live-aware. It's an optional feature that developers may or may not support. Developers do have to do work to be Live-aware. It's not something you just get "for free". If Ion Storm chose not to do that work for Thief, too bad. That means that you can't patch Thief,

      • Well, the latest regards Thief comes from a quote from the Eidos boards... 'We are working on a solution that is palatable to Microsoft and other related parties' - which sounds to me like they are looking at a Live patch for it. Hope they don't do this though, as I'm without Live. As for Ninja Gaiden, the content may end up on a Official X-Box Magazine coverdisk some time. I've certainly not noticed the camera being a swine or any other problems with the game.
    • Since when is this a patch for NG? A patch implies that the game is flawed somehow, which is not the case.

      This looks like additional content like other games release. Some realease maps, others new mechs, even others new weapons.

      This is a perk, not a patch.
      • I, personally, see the camera change as a "patch" rather than "new content". That's why I posed the question. I played the demo and didn't like the camera system, so I didn't get the game...So I see the 360-degree camera functionality as a "patch" rather than new content. The original game had a camera, and the downloadable content here "fixes" it.

        That's why I asked that if Thief could somehow package new maps and weapons, if they could then "fix" their difficulty bug in the same way. (Apparently, I wa
        • Ahh gotcha.

          I didn't think the camera was all that bad. If screws you over every now and then, but you get used to it for the most part.

          I'm looking forward to the new stuff though. It truly is an awesome game. One of the best I've ever played.

  • Fishy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by netfool ( 623800 ) * on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:28PM (#9522172) Homepage
    Maybe this part of MS's long arm:

    1) Developers make a great game
    2) Have developers not include all the features
    3) After the game has been released and sold well, have developer release the extra features and levels etc which are only available through XBox Live
    4) People will want those extras and will get XBox Live
    5) Profit

    GENIUS!
    [/conspiracy theory]

  • Horrible precedent (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 24, 2004 @04:41PM (#9522333)
    If the network were free, I'd have less of a problem with this. But XBL isn't free.

    People without paid network access have no means of obtaining these patches. Tecmo sure ain't shipping patch CDs. Even Microsoft themselves provide multiple distribution formats for their countless Windows and Office patches, but not here. And all of a sudden, Xbox owners without XBL are second-class citizens who are missing out on more than just network access by foregoing the monthly MS tithe. Bad precedent, but miraculously, nobody will ever notice.

    Put another way, the application of XBL changes. The application of Xbox is to play games. The app of the remote control is to enable DVD playback. The app of XBL is to provide online competition, cooperation, and communication. But now, XBL is a patch delivery system as well. And what happens when Xbox owners who don't have XBL (and weren't previously interested) start to see it as such? They get XBL. What does that make this? Paid patching, that's what. Now, what happens when Microsoft starts seeing paid patching as a revenue stream (thereby making its use as a selling point to publishers quite attractive to MS)? QA goes down, because both pubs and MS will see post-shipment bugfixing as nothing but a good thing - MS gets XBL subs, pubs can be lazier and can meet ship dates by shipping buggier code. Welcome to Windows gaming, console fans. How stupid we've been these nigh 20-30 years.
    • If the network were free, I'd have less of a problem with this. But XBL isn't free.

      Which is why upgrades/patches/content are only available for Xbox Live enabled games per MS policy (as I understand it).

    • DOA3, Splinter Cell, and other games have had their content updates distributed on Xbox Magazine CDs and the like, too.

      • Re:Horrible precedent (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I'm curious, are these patches repeated every so often, or is the distribution of a certain patch limited to one issue of the magazine that people then have to hunt down? And are these discs copy-protected? Can unmodified Xboxes run home-copied copies of these patch discs?

        I ask, because on the PC and Mac, I can go download patches for years-old games, because even if the publisher or developer is no longer around, users can host and redistribute such needed files. If I had no internet connection, someon

        • Re:Horrible precedent (Score:4, Interesting)

          by rufo ( 126104 ) <`rufo' `at' `rufosanchez.com'> on Thursday June 24, 2004 @09:14PM (#9524218)
          Actually, the PS2 is starting to have patches also. From what I understand SOCOM 2 has required updates that it will store on your memory card, and of course FFXI requires the hard drive and will download content/updates onto the drive. I'm sure more games will come out that will use the HD, and of course what better use is there for a hard drive then changing, constantly updated content? (Obviously game storage, but as the PS2 usually uses memory cards for that purpose I understand the HD isn't typically used for game saves.)

          Also, it's not unheard of to update console games once they've been released. 007: Agent Under Fire and MechAssault both had buffer-overrun problems that let hackers ultimately run unsigned code on the Xbox (something I've recently taken advantage of) that were fixed in later versions. The first version of Ocarina of Time for N64 had red blood when you killed Ganondorf, which was changed to green blood in later versions (along with other minor fixes) due to ratings concerns. The first pressings of Gran Turismo 2 had numerous bugs which caused Sony to offer a recall for any disc exhibiting problems. I'm sure there are many other examples of console games being updated after release. It would not surprise me in the least if Ninja Gaiden's Platinum Hits version (for it will be a Platinum Hits game eventually, I'll bet my life on it) had the patch already incorporated, and perhaps they'll even include the patch starting with the next batch of CDs they press.

          Another option would be for Microsoft to release discs avaliable for little or no charge with just content updates on them once they decide to discontinue Xbox Live. That way the content and patches are still available, and they still get to collect additional revenue from Xbox Live while the service is up.
    • Now, what happens when Microsoft starts seeing paid patching as a revenue stream

      You buy a cube or PS2. Sell your games to a XBL paying friend, and move on with life. Easy enough, right. Microsoft realises it's plan isn't working, pulls it's head out, and goes back to being a normal console. Of course, you could retain you l33t xbox zealotry and pay up, but that's your choice.

    • [i]People without network access, dont have access to patches... [/i]
      Er... these are not patches they are extra features (for real not like those in windows) since they are not solving any problem with the game (camera spinning maybe cool but its not needed, extra AI, believe me, you really dont need it or want it), several games have access to extra levels and features via xbox live. so er.. get a grip.
    • But it says right on the box 'Xbox live enabled' and 'Content Download'. They have never mislead you that you don't need xbox live to get updates. I don't see what the problem is, you get something extra for paying money...making any sense?

      The game works fine on its own, it is just bigger and better with xbox live.

    • Uh, not really. This isn't a patch. It's improved game content, as clearly stated in the article. If we take the article at it's word, there's nothing wrong with the game. So the additional benefit of being an XBox Live subscriber is downloadable content, *not* a bugfix. That's not to say that bugfixes couldn't be distributed this way, but this article shows no precedent for bugfixing.

      In plus, if they wanted to distribute bugfixes, this way, it'd be easy to leat nonsubscribers download those, but not
  • So what happens when there is no HD in XBox2? Where do the patches get downloaded to? A memory card? Do I get to have a memory card patch for each one of my games now? Aye, this better not be the beginning of console games acting like PCs. The very reason I play console games is because they're not buggy and upgraded all the time -- I like that I just throw them in the XBox and they work, nothing else to worry about.
    • Where do the patches get downloaded to?

      Oh, they haven't mentioned that part yet: MS will just surgically implant a cranial jack in the purchaser's skull. That way, you can have the ultimate portability for your game saves when you go over to a friend's house!

      By the way, the next Xbox will cost $10,956 and require a six week stay in a local hospital, and you will lose the fine motor skills that control drooling. And, minor item: the survival rate is less than 25%... but you'll have the newest console t

    • Er.. guys does anyone at least considered the option that they will eventually sell a hdd like the ps2? or that an usb device these days can handle up to 1 gig of info? and they are almost as fast as a hdd?

  • 1) The updates are adding new content and changing game "features" that they deliberately decided to implement (i.e. the original camera control) I guess it's a technicality, but it's more of an artistic reinterpretation on the designer's part than a "bug fix". None of the stuff they're changing is "broken".

    2) Part of the update makes the game AI "harder" for round two of the "Master Ninja Tournament", which they've planned to do all along. Everyone can't be in the second round of the tournament, but every

  • Wow (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Peteloaf ( 791313 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @05:19PM (#9522691)
    I absolutly cannot believe all the negativity. Tecmo, in an effort to both add replay value to an extremely popular title & address user complaints (camera mostly), is releasing a free add on for Ninja Gaiden and all that everybody can do is insult both Tecmo & Microsoft? I don't uderstand. What should Tecmo have done? "Fixed" the "problems" before release? How are new enemies & weapons a problem? The camera, maybe, but I dare any user on this board to name 1 third person action game that has a flawless camera - especially a game that moves as fast as Ninja Gaiden already does. Had Tecmo offered to give every body who owned Ninja Gaiden $100 would you all still cry foul? What do you people want?

    • Re:Wow (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      thank god somebody else finally noticed that the majority of slashdot posters only know the [complain] tag....

    • Re:Wow (Score:3, Insightful)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      What should Tecmo have done? "Fixed" the "problems" before release?

      Yes, they should have fixed the problems before release - no quotes, either. Namely, errors in AI, and the crappy camera, both things they're sneaking into this update, too. The extra content costs them money and probably won't really make them any so in order for there to be any significant return on that investment it has to have another purpose, and that purpose is probably distracting gamers from the fact that they're patching bugs

      • "Errors in AI"? Uh, how so? I can't think of any I encounted during my several playthroughs of the game, for any of the difficulty levels, and none of my friends can either. Can't remember reviews mentioning it. It isn't like there is an AI allied character of some sort who keeps getting stuck on terrain or anything...

        And sorry to disappoint you, but the AI has already been updated once already, back during the first phase of the tournament. The major changes I noticed were that nearly all enemies would st
    • I always thought that when you bought a game that has the box "Additional Content Via XBox Live" ticked, it means exactly that. And the fact that you buy the game without having a XBL account is your acknowledgement that you are buying this game, and will not be able to take advantage of the additional content unless you get an XBL account.

      Honestly, I agree that many people probably are taking this too seriously.

      Disclaimer, I have Xbox, and I don't have XBL. But I don't see why MS/Tecmo are being evil t
    • What do you people want?

      (I personally agree with you, this is awesome news!)

      Looking at many of the other complaints, it seems like the people bitching about this are finding Ninja Gaiden to be too hard. A new camera system seems to be evidence that the real problem isn't that they aren't good enough to play the game well (no shame in that, IMO), the problem is that the game's camera was broken. A blatant lie, especially when comparing the game to literally every other free-roaming third person game in ex
  • About time they started to fix bugs in console games, they have been ignoring bugs in console games for years. And now they start releasing patches it's a bad thing?
  • Valve's Steam is similar

    Read more at www.steampowered.com

  • Are they serious? (Score:3, Funny)

    by AzraelKans ( 697974 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @07:15PM (#9523579) Homepage
    Better AI for Ninja Gaiden enemies?

    For god sake's! those damn thing's are hard as nails as it is! what are they going to do now? trace me up in every corner of the map? steal my credit card number? lookup my home address?

    (please link the obligated penny arcade reference)
  • A number of pessimistic posters are perhaps unaware of Microsoft Policy regarding Xbox Live updated. Developer contracts limit downloadable patches to new content and features -- game-makers are not permitted to release bug fixes or compattibility updates via the online service.

  • Tecmo at it again (Score:3, Informative)

    by hiroshi912681 ( 589840 ) on Thursday June 24, 2004 @07:52PM (#9523813)
    Well, if ANYONE remembers, Dead or Alive 3 was upgraded via the Official Xbox Magazine (before Xbox Live was in place). I still have the disc, I paid $10 for the mag just to get the upgrade. I hope there's a way to upgrade Ninja Gaiden via the magazine, too, cause I don't have Live (nor will I ever get Live).
  • Great news! NG was already a good game, but I'll take a free, unexpected update any day. I think it's only a matter of time before consoles follow the way of the PC (in regards to patches, bugfixes, etc) anwyay, so I don't mind it starting now....even if this isn't necessarily a bugfix, per se.

  • or a negative one that would equate to the bugfix/patch crazy world of the PC gaming world?

    Never let it be said that Slashdot isn't just as capable of FUD.

    Microsoft have stated and re-stated, and it is no secret, that games are not to be patched once released. This is new content for the next stage of the Tournament. This game is Live! enabled for exactly this reason. The bulk of this release is new models and weapons, and harder AI. It could even be argued that they saw fit to make the camera a bit bette

  • ...at least we wont get this kinda crap from nintendo

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