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First Person Shooters (Games) Entertainment Games

Make Something Unreal Gets Next Phase Winners 143

Posted by simoniker from the not-phased dept.
AskedRelic writes "The winners in Phase 3 of the previously mentioned 'Make Something Unreal' mod contest have been released. Big winners in this $1,000,000 prize pool Unreal modding contest include Red Orchestra for Best FPS Mod and Alien Swarm for Best Non-FPS Mod, as well as Clone Bandits for Best Vehicular Mod. Phase 4 entries close on August 20th, and the grand final entries, awarding $50,000 for the best overall mod, close October 1st." Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?
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Make Something Unreal Gets Next Phase Winners More

Make Something Unreal Gets Next Phase Winners

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  • IMO the big modders will move on to things like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 now that they're out. This will make for great gaming. :-)
    • i wouldnt be surprised if doom 3 didnt get a big mod following. apart from the network code being so-so, the engine probably has a lot less to do with doom 3's beauty than the artwork does. the models and levels in doom 3 have a mgnificently low polygon count, and art that doesnt stack up to the masterpieces in doom 3 will probably look shabby or use more polygons than the engine is designed for.

  • We made a Doom 3 mod already (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Real Troll Talk ( 793436 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:17PM (#9909354) Journal
    The multiplayer issues with Doom 3 were disappointing, so myself and some friends put together this mod that allows up to 32 players in a multiplayer networked game.

    See here [fileplanet.com] for info and download kits.

  • It depends (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Myrmi ( 730278 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:21PM (#9909366)
    The Ut2k4 engine is very versatile and easy to mod - as can be seen from the sheer quality and abundance of the mods that have been entered. With so many people who already have experience with the UT2k4 system, they may well stick to it if the Half Life 2 / Doom 3 engines are much more difficult to mod. The lower system requirements might be attractive, too.

    That said, I'd love to see Natural Selection on Half Life 2.

    • Re:It depends (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jeffskyrunner ( 701044 )
      Well, someone said that all regular HL mods will work in HL2, because the engine is backwards compatible...But i would love to see NS2 on the HL2 engine :). Who knows, Maybe Flayra is working on it as we speak..or type...yea..

      • Re:It depends (Score:2, Informative)

        by GT_Onizuka ( 693787 )
        Q: Can I play HL modifications with Half-Life 2? A: The original and sequel use two very different game engines and it's not possible to play mods from one game with the other. I got this from the HL2.net FAQ [halflife2.net]
    • Have you ever actually tried to create a server side mod (mutator) for UT2K4? The stuff that's possible is very weak. The language is very basic which makes it easy, but the stuff you can do is very limited. The Doom 3 engine doesn't see to difficult to mod, don't know why it would be, the only difference would be like the language, and map editors or whatever. Someone can make the map editors very similar so then the difference would just be the language.
      • What does the fact that mutators only have limited power have to do with anything?
        Almost any mod is going to include new models/textures and therefore need a client-side install anyway. Why the focus on mutators?

      • Re:It depends (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Mia'cova ( 691309 )
        UnrealScript is hardly a "very basic" language. It's responsible for the entirety of the entire game code (with a few things written in c++ for performance). That means that the vehicles, weapons, networking, player movement, menus, HUD, console, bot AI, and pretty well everything is written with this language. If what you can do is "very limited" I'm thinking it might not be the language.

        As a side-note to those who're curious, UnrealScript is a bit of a cross between Java and c++. It also has replication
    • That said, I'd love to see Natural Selection on Half Life 2.
      I don't care what platform is used for a mod as long as it is a good one.
      I wouldn't mind Natural Selection on any platform, wether doom3 ut2 or even quake3, as long as it is well done.

  • If it ever gets released... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DesertJester ( 803191 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:21PM (#9909367)
    If HL2 ever gets released it spawn some very intresting mods. As for Doom3, we have seen the first of what I hope will be the next gen. of mods...things that help the game. But for the time being keep working on Unreal...
    • Doom3 has mulitplayer, half-life2 is going to be Counterstrike + physics (the engine not really being HL2, but an upgraded HL1).

      At least, that's how I understand it, anyone have any definitive info?
      • I sincerely doubt that the Source engine is an upgraded HL1 engine. The HL1 engine is based off the Quake and Quake 2 engines, which are eight years old. At this point there probably needs to be some major changes in the core architecture of the engine to take advantage of all the new graphical technologies since 1996.
  • I remember wanting to try one popular ut2004 mod, but installation involved somewhat vague instructions to copy over a bunch of files(with subdirs) into your ut directory.

    I didn't even bother, not wanting to screw up my pristine ut2004 install for some mod.
    • ermh... so you prefer an installation application without instructions to copy over a bunch of files (with subdirs) into your ut directory, screwing up your pristine ut2004 install for some mod ?

      riiiight...

    • Re:How about best installer? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Hi_2k ( 567317 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:45PM (#9909474) Journal
      Most UT mods come in the UMOD format, essentialy a zip file with some special instructions for the UT installer program. I dont know where you've been getting your mods without it.
    • You shouldn't fear installing anything because it might hose your pristine UT. It isn't like you have to reinstall XP. Unreal in all forms is very light footprint in terms of stamping over the reg etc.

      My own sys has UT classic (reinstalled from scratched CD's don't ask how) and many other things and *not* by the usual install. Mine has maps stolen from the DA mod and much other stuff simply because I thought it was a fun idea.

      It works. It's written by people who don't like f*king with your registry or any
    • UT2004 introduced a way for modders to contain their entire mods within their own directories, using a -mod switch to launch into the mod. You can switch between mods once you've loaded the game too, of course. There's a listing of these TC-type mods in the community section of the game.

      Small mods or maps, etc tend to clog up your directories as they're treated no differently from the retail content. That integration is nice in its own way but I probably still agree with you.

  • No (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wviperw ( 706068 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:25PM (#9909387) Homepage Journal
    "Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?"

    Absolutely not. We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

    • We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.


      Huh? For starters, Ut2004 is the first unreal game to have vehicles (land, air, space). Neither UT or Q3 had them.

      • Re:No (Score:2)

        by qbwiz ( 87077 )
        There are mods for UT that have vehicles, so the original engine worked with vehicles.

      • Re:No (Score:5, Informative)

        by wviperw ( 706068 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @02:37PM (#9909702) Homepage Journal
        I'm not speaking of trivial things like vehicles. There is nothing inherantly special in having vehicles, as both UT and Q3 did in fact support them through mods. I am speaking of the fundamental characteristics of the core game engine. Doom 3's revolutionary new light/shadow rendering system (yes, I believe it is revolutionary), in addition to D3's utilization of DX9 features and its complex scripting languge all contribute to making D3 a next generation engine. Similarly, HL2 also takes advantage of DX9, as well as having a very robust physics engine, making the HL2 engine next generation as well.

        • Re:No (Score:4, Informative)

          by Mia'cova ( 691309 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @03:18PM (#9909843)
          The difference between UT/Q3 and UT2003/2004 in vehicle support is that the latter has Karma physics built in. When you're modding, the physics engine is just one of those things that makes a huge impact on the end result. Physics is *NOT* trivial in the least.

          For example, some friends and I built some big walking mechs as UT2004 vehicles. The coding, while tricky and a little finicky, is actually pretty simple to understand. We're able to subclass an existing vehicle to get all the player/vehicle interactions. Over-ride one or two things and change the DefaultProperties (part of the UnrealScript language) to get rid of the few aspects that didn't work. Then we'd just set things up with karma so that the feet "repulsed" the ground (no floating feet on hills). The repulsors are attached to the animation's bones. Time the animation to the speed and add in the weapons and you've got something very new without too much work. And in this case, you don't even have to worry about networking; it just works.

          I'm really just trying to say that there's a big difference between possible and practical. Vehicles are not in the least bit trivial. I think with all the modders currently working away at UT2004, the question to ask might be what will be the big new modding draw offered by Doom 3 or Half-Life 2? I know UnrealScript and UnrealED.. what can Doom 3 or Half-Life do that I can't do in UT2004?

          I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as Doom 3 goes. For a start, it doesn't use DX9. It uses OpenGL. While I completely agree that the lighting is revolutionary, I don't think we're going to see a revival of Dark Match (remember in Unreal 1, all those years back, the dark levels with flashlights? Yes, in Unreal 1. It has been done again and again in the Unreal engine but has never taken off.) The gameplay wasn't there then and I'm not sure how it'll pan out now that proper lighting is truly available. In any case, Doom 3's modding is crippled by a 4-player multiplayer limit and lack of vehicles (afaik). I'm not sure how that will evolve or if it's not applicable to interested modders but it has me worried.

          Half-life 2 looks promising for modding. Valve is a strong supporter of modding, the engine seems solid (nVidia issues asside) and sufficiently advanced, and there's an existing mod community that's thriving. But perhaps most importantly, people love realistic mods. Why does that make a difference? Well, when you're starting off you can pull content from the game. It helps tremendously when you can just use an existing explosion effect with your own grenade model. Existing content is a HUGE draw to modders and perhaps one of the most important considerations. The only downside to half-life 2 is that we really don't know how it'll run on older hardware. Counter-strike, for example, is insanely popular because it combines attractive gameplay and low system requirements. I don't know about you, but I've seen a whole lot of LAN parties degenerate to counter-strike because it's the only (popular...) game that EVERYONE can play.

          Anyways, that's just how I feel about it :)
          • i mean.. vehicles? are you playing an FPS or a car (airplane, whatever) simulator?

            and in D3 you can increase the number of players from 4 to 32 with a simple cfg hack...

            seta si_maxPlayers "enter your favourite number here"
      • quake ralley had them in quake 1

    • Re:No (Score:2, Insightful)

      by HeLLFiRe1151 ( 743468 )
      You are an idiot, how the hell can you compare the Unreal 432 with Unreal 3236, do you have any idea what those numbers mean? . You are comparing a 2 year old engine with a 2 day old engine? The only reason you think the Doom 3 engine is all that is because of how pretty it is. Well, take another look. Your precious doom 3 engine is all indoors, id has never made a decent engine that can handle longer distances, the engines have always catered to close quarter combat. The Unreal engine is under constant red

    • Absolutely not. We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

      And the other thing is, if mod developers are so interested in new engine features, why has half life 1 modding been so popular? Halflife 1 is what, 6 years old now? People have been producing new mods for that long after that engine became dated (see natural selection). If mod developers were concer

    • mapping != modding, and ut is better for modding (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I don't like the ut2004 engine for very specific reasons, but I use it, and I may move to source instead of doom 3.

      1) Unreals vehicles suck, but at least they exist. Where does doom stand here?
      2) unreals outdoor environments are a pain to generate. But, where does doom stand?
      3) Unreals scripting language is easy to use, but somewhat counter-intuitive/odd due to the way objects are passed/they do replication. I haven't coded with doomIII or source, but it would be hard to be more friendly to new modders. My
    • Absolutely not. We have moved on to a new generation of engines, opening up vast new opportunities, and the UT2K4 engine is, for all intents and purposes, still back with the Q3 and original UT engines, IMO.

      Yet the maps still look better than Doom 3...
    • Doom3 runs horribly on my machine. UT2k4 runs beautifully on machines HALF the cost of mine. unless something drastic changes, I dont see Doom3 modding becoming nearly as popular.

  • ut2k4 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by barcodez ( 580516 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:28PM (#9909401)
    I bought this game sometime ago when I still have a Windows machine at home. However I haven't played it since ridding myself of the windows machine. Is it possible to get it working on Linux? Any good howtos?

    • Re:ut2k4 (Score:3, Informative)

      by thryllkill ( 52874 )
      I believe it comes with Linux binaries on it. Yup, that's what my box says.
      • Stupid me I have ut2k3 - will certainly buy ut2k4 ASAP - does it work just as well on Linux?
        • ut2k3 has linux binaries on disc three as well...

          as far as how well it runs? I don't know. My linux box is a pretty old P3 with a Radeon 8500 LE, so I don't bother putting games on it.
          • I've got a Piii 667 with Radeon 7200 64MB VIVO (old half-assed crap radeon) and Utk3 runs smooth, utk4 ok smooth (got no fps count, but no skipping).

            In Linux though I don't know.

            I had to try Doom 3 on this box, and I was surprised I even got it started! The Radeon didn't understand much of vertex lighting and some of the other new features - they turned into black polygons. And the frame rate? 3-4 fps if there was no action, 0,5 fps if I moved around a bit and had other people in view.

            That's with no adva
          • From my experience with every UT game, is that they run very well, even with less than minimum hardware requirements.

            It should run great. With my poor little 2000+(ish) box, with 512ddr, and a Radeon 7500, I could run it one high graphics at highest resolution. You should be fine.

        • ut2k4 on Linux (Score:1, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          It runs *beautifully* on Linux. Even voice chat and text-to-voice is working. But make sure you get the latest patch for it, as the retail version had an annoying Crash-To-Desktop bug that has since been fixed.
          • I can vouch for this, my system isn't the best and UT2K4 runs without a hitch both on Linux and Windows. P4 2.2 GHz 256 MB RAM GeForce FX 5200 128MB And I was wondering why my install at the LAN would crash. Looks like I should pick up a copy myself!
      • Mine's got a installer script right beside the WIn32 Setup.exe.

        Jaysyn

    • Re:ut2k4 (Score:2, Informative)

      by dj_paulgibbs ( 619622 )
      It works with linux out of the box (although, as of course you'd do with a Windows game, you'd want to patch it to the latest version after you've installed it).

      There's a .sh script on the last CD/on the dvd that you run which should launch the installer, IIRC.

    • ut2k4/linux (Score:5, Informative)

      by symbolset ( 646467 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:59PM (#9909537) Journal

      UT2k4 works better on Linux. On identical hardware I get about 30% more FPS. If you have the CD version, run the shell script on CD1. Some caveats:

      • The installer only works in X
      • You'll need the driver installed for your video card first
      • Some distros use an obnoxious method for automounting CD's that conflict with the installer. Open another window to unmount and mount the CD's in this case
      • The installer writes to a number of directories including /usr/local/games/ut2004, /usr/share/applications, /usr/share/applnk/Games and /usr/local/bin. You'll need write access to these, so the installer may need to run as root. Once installed you can run as a normal user.
      • Some Mods are not available for the linux version
      • There is no linux version of the editor
      Happy fragging!
      • UT2k4 works better on Linux. On identical hardware I get about 30% more FPS.

        UT2004 runs poorly on ATI hardware. No doubt due to their pitiful excuse for Linux drivers. Where you see a 30% increase in fps, I see a 30% slowdown at the very least with my 9600 Pro.
        ATI are said to be rewriting their OpenGL ICD and not before time. I wish I held on to my Geforce 3.

      • Re:ut2k4/linux (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Not to be a Gentoo Zealot but there is a Gentoo Live CD with UT2k4
      • UT only runs better on Linux because the OpenGL renderer doesn't have a couple of eye-candy options that the D3D renderer does. Take the time to try the Windows version with OpenGL(on an Nvidia card), and you'll see a similar speed-up.

  • Best Mod Ever: Make UT work as a Limited User (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gfecyk ( 117430 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:29PM (#9909406) Homepage Journal
    Windows game authors are the laziest when it comes to designing for security... ok, they're second only to travel software companies.

    My vote for Best Mod would be the one that lets me play UT without requiring Power User or Administrator access on XP or Win2K. That way I could set up an internet cafe / LAN party place without having to worry if the customers wreck the machines.

    I mean come on. If I can fix Quake II [pan-am.ca], then the makers of UT can fix UT. Or a talented mod author can.

  • Far Cry modding (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Wm_K ( 761378 )
    Actually Far cry has some excellent mod tools (especially their sandbox editor is great). With the SDK available at www.crymod.com [crymod.com] I expect their will be some excellent mods coming from this game. Far Cry seemed to be quite ahead of Half-life 2 and Doom 3 at the moment of release.

  • Mod Makers Moving on (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frostbane ( 660953 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @01:37PM (#9909444)
    Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon? Its up for grabs, Epic was able to attract lots of modders with their contest and because they had the newest engine at the time. Now they no long have the 'sexiest' engine and people are moving on. Some of the devs from Red Orchestra are now working on a HL2 mod Insurgency.
    • Left out a '"' in a tag and it dropped the link. Links are below:

      Insurgency Mod [insurgencymod.net]
      HL2.net [halflife2.net] - Great coverage of HL2 mod news

    • Some of the devs from Red Orchestra are now working on a HL2 mod Insurgency.


      How did they decide to start using HL2 when it hasn't been released yet?

      • These modders are obviously quite 1337 and have surely attracted attention from game developers. Most likely they're working on a beta supplied by the company.
        • A mod has lots of predictable elements like models, textures, sound. All those can be made already without the need for any version of the game.

          • A mod has lots of predictable elements like models, textures, sound. All those can be made already without the need for any version of the game.


            But that doesn't help you decide what engine you want to write the mod for. I mean of all the FPS games out there to mod, I don't understand how they came to pick one that isn't released yet as what they want to build their mod on.

            And those things are mostly portable among engines anyway.

  • Can someone PLEASE tell me what that weird red and silver icon is that gets used on FPS articles?

    Everytime I see it I stare at it, trying to work out what scale it is (2cm long? 2 miles long?) and what it could possible be.

    It's a red thing, with a sort of pin and trigger type thing and a silver tube thing, with a thing stuck to it. Arghh!

    Someone put me out of my misery!

  • Mod mod mod (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JediDan ( 214076 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @02:10PM (#9909577)
    Modders will mod just about anything for the sake of modding. The fact that it's easy will attract some while repel others, and vice versa. The fact there is money tied to this particular competition puts it in the headlines but doesn't necessarily draw out anything that hasn't been seen elsewhere.

    Viva la Mod!
    (posted with a ten-foot bamboo pole in a treehouse made from legos)

    • Re:Mod mod mod (Score:3, Interesting)

      by abandonment ( 739466 )
      exactly. the sheer amount of effort that goes into mods just boggles my mind - these wanna-be developers spend years of their lives trying to make a game, and in the end, only end up making something that they can't sell, can't publish, can't make money on - the big 'reward' for being a mod author seems to be that you might get hired as an employee at one of these companies...

      i teach at a school that used to exclusively teach unreal modding as a substitute for learning game design...i'm slowly trying to i

  • Red Orchestra?? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by madatmetoo ( 794327 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @02:20PM (#9909621)
    How is Red Orchestra above and beyond any other UT FPS Mod? In the opinion of many UT gamers, Air Buccaneers [ludocraft.oulu.fi] is the best FPS mod created for UT.
    • Air Buccaneers was considered a NON-FPS mod. That's a separate category from FPS, where Red Orchestra resides. AB took 2nd place to Alien Swarm, which probably won out based on the incredible amount of polish put into it. You could be fooled into thinking Alien Swarm was a retail product the way it looks.
  • Uh. Doom 3 is probably out. HL2 we cannot speculate about. The unreal engine has shown good longevity and moddability so you go figure. I don't see anyone queueing up yet and in any case do we yet have a nethack mod or a dungeon keeper or . Nope? Just more stinking mod's to make you look like alice cooper on acid? Oh he is ? Not even a good research trick or joke (like psdoom?). Nope. Boring. Really. (runs off and runs UT classic and DA-fastfoodwar as a DM).
    • You do realize that Doom 3 is limited to 4 players only in the Doom "mod" itself, right? It can be changed to however many players to mod creator likes (within the limits of the engine). As for Half-Life 2, Valve announced they will be releasing mod tools before the game was released.

  • Of course.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sinner0423 ( 687266 ) <sinner0423@@@gmail...com> on Saturday August 07, 2004 @02:38PM (#9909704)
    It will be half life 2, which mod makers will embrace. UT2k3 is great, the dev tools they offer are completely up to par. Developers are doing crazy things with the unreal engine, and I give them full credit for their endeavors.

    However.. there is a certain modification [counter-strike.net] for HL1 which was so good, it was the first game mod to garner extreme commercial success. I have yet to see a mod for a game which has had the attention & the impact that CS did.

    Gooseman & the CS dev team did this without the incentive of a million dollars, too. It was out of sheer enjoyment of one of the best PC games, in my opinion, that has ever been created. Perhaps Valve will learn from Epic, and decide to offer some cash prizes to mod developers. This would, in my mind, push the community even farther than it's already gone.

    • Re:Of course.. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by 88NoSoup4U88 ( 721233 )
      "Perhaps Valve will learn from Epic, and decide to offer some cash prizes to mod developers. This would, in my mind, push the community even farther than it's already gone."

      VALVe said that one feature of their Steam content delivery is that they will allow mod makers to put their stuff up there to be sold.

      Some people might not justify, that in the future one might have to pay a (small) fee for a mod ; but this is all in the hands of those same mod makers, which will hopefully also be able to release thei

  • Q3A, BF1942, BF:V, UT2004, DOOM 3, & HL2 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by antdude ( 79039 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @02:43PM (#9909725) Homepage Journal
    I bought UT2004 recently on DVD because of Alien Swarm [blackcatgames.com] and Red Orchestra mods. I didn't care about its regular UT2004 game. The playable demo didn't impressed me except the pretty graphics. The mods were the big stars for me.

    I bought BF1942 for its game mostly, but I was surprised to see mods coming out like Forgotten Hope [bf1942files.com], Battlefield Pirates [bfpirates.com], Desert Combat [desertcombat.com], Galactic Conquest [galactic-conquest.net], etc.

    I hope the same is for DOOM 3 for mod support. I would love to see Aliens-type of game with DOOM 3 engine and with co-operative play. How about System Shock 2 type of game? I loved that game! It was scary.

    I sold Quake 3 Arena a few days ago and uninstalled Half-Life a few months ago because it was time to leave their engines and their mods.
    • How about System Shock 2 type of game? I loved that game!

      Oh, they already included that one in the box for you. They just renamed it.
      • Sure, but it didn't have the cool SHODAN taunting ya. :) She would say something like this to you, "Look at you, Hacker! A pathetic creature of fragile meat and bone. What kind of pathetic creator made such a flimsy being? How dare you kind of pathetic creator made such a flimsy being? How dare you challenge a perfect, immortal machine like me? Humans! Born useless and helpless, living whether you deserve to live, dying whether you deserve to die, your only purpose in life to spawn more ridiculous animals l
  • I enjoyed the original UT and very much liked UT2004 but the thing that stops me getting into them seriously is the overall 'feel' of the games. This is somewhat of a grey area but veteran fps gamers will know what I'm talking about.

    Game physics is what id has always excelled at, not only with movement but with the feel of the weapons. The Q2/3 railgun is a classic example, there has never been a UT single shot hitscan weapon weapon which, in the hands of a skilled player, can be consistantly used with dea

    • Re:Unreal engine physics. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mia'cova ( 691309 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @04:07PM (#9910071)
      I've got to disagree with you on a few points here. While I'm a huge fan of the Q2/3 physics (rocket-jumping, strafe-jumping, plasma climbing...), that's not to say the feel to your movement in the Unreal camp is lacking its own advantages (dodging, lift-jumping, higher air-control). There's a vastly different feel and strong players in one camp really have a tough time jumping back and forth between the two. I think I'm one of the rare people (honestly) who's used to both sets of physics. I can strafe-jump my way around a huge RA3 map and then happily move to 2003/4 and lift jump from the bottom to top of DM-compressed without even thinking about it.

      I mention air control as a plus for the Unreal camp. I say that because there's more air control for Unreal games. Unreal 1 had air control. I'm not entirely sure but I doubt that Q3 was the first id game to have air control. I thought Q2 and maybe even Q1 had air control. Maybe someone could clarify this for me. U1 came out (slightly) before Quake 2 though so Q3 was certainly not the first game with air control.

      The feel of the weapons is more in the hands of the artists and designers than the engine coders. There's some interaction with the physics but if they say to add this much momentum in some direction, it doesn't really have anything to do with the physics engine. Maybe because you slide more in Quake you prefer that feel. Everyone loves the railgun though. It'd be hard not to :)

      As for poor netcode. Sorry but it's just not true. There is a slightly different feel to the two games' netcode, eg I find leading more helpful in Quake though I might just be insane. But when you say the good UT players can't use a hit-trace weapon consistently, you're just wrong. Drop by Cached.net and download some recordings of pro players. I think you'll find that if they're playing Q3 or UT, they're making their shots with deadly accuracy.

      And one last point about the mouse... UT seems just as configurable to me. Finding UT too sensitive for small movements would seem to imply mouse acceleration in Quake, not UT. But that aside, UT has a bunch of options for you too. Pitch, yaw, and master sensitivities, obviously those are there. There are a bunch of options to configure the mouse smoothing as well. You can set it to whatever level of sensitivity you want. There's also some mouse accel, separate menu-only settings, and force-feedback you can toy with if you're interested.

      I really believe that these days it comes down to knowing your game, rather than who does what better. Differences exist for good reason. Maps in Quake are designed to accommodate their physics. They know you can strafe-jump and rocket-jump. In UT, they know you can lift-jump and dodge-jump. I think these differences make for different games and add to the variety we all get to enjoy. I'd hate to lose any of that because people start believing that one physics implementation becomes considered the best.
      • I'm not a Quake guru, but IIRC air control was introduced in one of the updates to Quake1, maybe Quake World? I remember reading something about how the new air control allowed to jump around corners and some other tricks.

        As to how the games feel...well I don't know, Q3 feels much smoother, as if the player is floating but my Q3 playtime is 4-5 hours max (vs about 200 hours in UT99) so I can't really say much more.
      • Q1 and QW had vectoring air control. Try in the low gravity level in the shareware version: jump with a strafe key held down and move the mouse. You can directly control your horizontal movement vector. With a lot of practice you can do a rocketjump to get some speed, then keep hopping and steer around an entire map at 90+ mph.

        Q2 had no air control (I think id thought it was unrealistic). Q3 has limited air control: you can accelerate gently in the direction you point. u2k3 is similar (I think?).

    • Check out Doom 3's physics engine. It is terrible. I shot a laptop into a corner and it stayed in midair for about 3 seconds before flying out at an immense speed. Make a barrel explode and the objects around it are barely affected.

      I am willing to bet in the next generation of game engines, Unreal is going to be the engine all the modders flock to. Have you seen the latest Unreal 3 engine demos with the demonstration of the new Karma physics engine? It is absolutely beautiful. Karma itself may even be bet
  • "Do you think Unreal will continue to nurture the best/most modding talent, now that Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 mods are looming on the horizon?"

    With the current Doom 3 support regarding ALL facets of making game assets ?

    No.

    I trust id for releasing better documents later on ; but still : I played my ass off, only to get busy with editing later that night.
    The official default Radiant editors that are released with id-engined games tend to be very suck compared to ,for instance, GTK Radiant.
    I am seriously w

  • Yay, AirBuccaneers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by istewart ( 463887 ) on Saturday August 07, 2004 @04:02PM (#9910054)
    I'm glad to see that mod still in the running, even if it is in second place. It still needs a little bit of polish, but I think it could make it as a standalone game. It's basically a pirate mod with balloons instead of ships. Sadly, the number of players and servers has been decreasing since their last release. A lot of people also didn't seem to understand that the game pretty much forces teamwork. Really, really good players can sometimes handle all 3 stations (steering, cannon aiming, cannon loading/lighting) on a balloon at once, but oftentimes people would take off with only a 1- or 2-person crew. However, when you have a full crew complement, it becomes one of the most fun games i've ever come across.

    But the rope used to get on board a balloon in the air is a bitch, especially when your ping is through the roof like mine usually is.
  • Epic has moved back the dates for Phase 4 and the Grand Finale. They are September 10th and November 15th respectively. More details here [unrealtournament.com]
  • "Nothing unreal exists". Discuss. Or javelin, shotput etc

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