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Sega Done with Sports, Take-Two Launches Label 134

Posted by Zonk from the mlb-for-the-win dept.
Gamespot has the news that Take-Two Interactive's MLB deal has already had repercussions. Sega has gotten out of the sports business, selling their internal sports studio Visual Concepts to Take-Two for a bargain price. This newest addition in hand, Take-Two has turned around and launched a new game label entitled 2K games. From the article: "2K Games will incorporate Take-Two's internally owned development studios Visual Concepts, Kush Games, Indie Built, Venom Games, PopTop Software, and Frog City Software, as well as the team at Take-Two Licensing..." This new label will have a subsidiary specifically tuned for sports titles. As expected, it appears the sports game market is now going to fall to only a few companies. Commentary on Greg Costikyan's Blog
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Sega Done with Sports, Take-Two Launches Label More

Sega Done with Sports, Take-Two Launches Label

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  • Good luck to them (Score:2, Interesting)

    by squidsoup ( 145936 )
    Hopefully Take2 will continue to develop and challenge EA's near monopoly of the sports genre.
    • The thing that worries me is I do not see a duopoly as much better than a monopoly. I pretty much trust TakeTwo and approve of their policies and games, but in a long term sense if we just get shaken down to a point where there's just two companies that make sports games* and either you buy from one or the other, that's not good either for the games or the health of the overall video game market. I don't want video games to turn into coke vs. pepsi. I want to be able to maintain real diversity and opportuni

  • Oh yeah, Sega (Score:2, Insightful)

    by EggMan2000 ( 308859 ) *
    They got pwned in the console market (despite better games and platform) And now they are getting pwned in the software market as well? (despite very good games)

    Is Sega the new Apple?

    • Is Sega the new Apple?
      Don't you mean 'Is Sega the old Apple?' Last time I checked Apple's last quarter was the strongest in its history.

    • Re:Oh yeah, Sega (Score:5, Insightful)

      by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @09:03PM (#11475563)
      Is Sega the new Apple?

      They're not the "new" Apple, they're more comparable to the Apple of the mid 1980's. You know, a company without a clear direction, (hopefully) approaching the bottom end of their inverse market share bell curve. I still say that getting out of the hardware market is the worst thing Sega ever did - the effect it had was to completely demoralize the company. Many of their top creative minds left the company, and those that remained just haven't seemed to be putting their hearts into the games they've been creating lately.

      I guess my main argument with your statement (part of which I didn't quote, but it's there) is that Sega still makes "very good games". Visual Concepts, their sports studio, made some decent sports sims (though NFL 2K5 was buggy as all hell), but Sega themselves haven't made anything I've been excited about since Super Monkey Ball on the GameCube.

      As for this deal, don't forget that part of the deal is that Visual Concepts make games for Sega's arcade business. So to Sega's mind, this probably puts them back where they were in the early 80's only without having to do any of the actual work. Not sure it's actually going to play out that way, though; it doesn't seem like Sega has much of a future to me. Wouldn't be surprised if they get bought themselves at some point (something I argued would never happen 10 years ago, but times change and the mighty have fallen and fallen hard).

      btw, I do believe Sega is actually profitable, but at the cost of, to quote George Costanza, "significant shrinkage." They seem to contract further and further every year and it's the only way they've kept their head above water. This is not how you succeed in business - to succeed in business requires both profitability and growth. Sega is in no position to grow and at this rate will eventually implode; they will cease to exist even as an IP holding company, as they will have sold off everything worthwhile to other publishers.
      • They're not the "new" Apple, they're more comparable to the Apple of the mid 1980's.

        That's an excellent point. Gah! I can't even mention Apple without getting flagged a troll.

        My abbreviated point was that Sega had a better console, but still lost out. The narrative is similar for Apple. I own a few Sega consoles and a few Macs. I'm working on convincing my wife we *need* a Mac Mini.

        As for no good games from Sega: Super Monkey Ball is an instant classic. I do tend to agree though, that Sega is fa

      • Nice try, but Sammy bought SEGA last year.

      • approaching the bottom end of their inverse market share bell curve

        Wow, I wish I would have known about the existance of this kind of thing. So what you are saying is - buy Sega stock like crazy, they are heading for infinite market share. Nice advice. I think I'll go sell all my stuff now and invest.

        Not sure it's actually going to play out that way, though; it doesn't seem like Sega has much of a future to me.

        Damn, make up your mind. I've allready sold all my stuff and now I see this.

        • An inverse bell curve does NOT approach infinity, not even close. It would flatten out to zero-growth as x increases.
          • True. I surrender and admit fault. Still, where does an inverse bell curve flatten out? At what given level? Come to think about it, I guess a reversed curve as such would still need to contain all possible outcomes (an "area" of 1) and you could thus make some calculations, but it seems very forced.

            Still, I am left to wonder if a bell curve is a good thing to use when discussing such things. At any rate, thanks for pointing it out.

      • I still say that getting out of the hardware market is the worst thing Sega ever did

        They couldn't have done otherwise. The Dreamcast was a good console (I own one!), although it's graphics were already outdated by the time it was released in Europe. And Sega did not have the marketing muscle of Sony: the hype that the PS2 could do 75,000,000 polygons killed the Dreamcast.

        Their missed opportunity was when they had the Model 3 coin-op technology and no-one else had that kind of graphics, either in the

        • Model 3 coin-op technology and no-one else had that kind of graphics, either in the coin-op or console or PC business. They should have done a console based on Model 3. It would kick serious ass. Making a model 3 based console would've been a huge mistake. Model 3 was way too expensive, which is why Sega moved to Dreamcast based arcade hardware, which was actually more powerful.

          • Model 3 was way too expensive

            It was not the model 3 arcade board expensive, the arcade cabinet, peripherals and support chips were. Furthermore, mass production would lower the costs.

            which is why Sega moved to Dreamcast based arcade hardware, which was actually more powerful

            No, the Dreamcast hardware was not more powerful than the Model 3 arcade board. Virtua Striker 2 on Dreamcast has an occasional slow down, where as the Model 3 game does not (I am a fan of the game and I have played extensively

        • The sad thing is 75,000,000 poly is a lie SONY told everyone (developers say they are lucky to get 75K) and people believed it.
          I have to say a person has to be a stupid motherfucker to not buy a console and games that are out and fun to play but rather wait a year for empty lies.

          DISCLAIMER: I own a PS2 as well as a DC and enjoy a number of games on it, but damn what they did was low and they should be punished for it.
    • I think he means that Sega is the new old Apple. You know, when Jobs wasn't there.
    • I'm afraid that Sega has had very few very good games recently. They have had a lot of average games mainly since the death of the Dreamcast besides for a few.

  • Sega Done with Sports? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Castaa ( 458419 ) * on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @08:54PM (#11475480) Homepage Journal
    I can see it now at EA's corporate offices:

    <mr. burns> Excellent... </mr. burns>

  • Its a real shame too... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by angst7 ( 62954 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @08:54PM (#11475484) Homepage
    I was very pleasently suprised by the great job Sega did with NFL 2K5, and with a $20 price tag it was an unbeatable choice. Unbeatable unless you are EA games protecting your Madden franchise. When I heard they bought exclusive rights I was pretty annoyed. This sort of practice is completely understandable from the prospective of the company seeking to keep market share. But as a customer it still pisses me off. I'm thinking I'll not be buying any sports games for quite a few years.
    • While EA has done some undoubtedly crummy things, be generous with the blame. From what I've read, it seems that it was the NFL's idea to go with an exclusive contract, and they requested bids. EA had the most to lose, not to mention a whole lot of resources, so their bid won out. It's crappy what it does to the football game genre, but it sounds like they really didn't have a choice if they wanted to keep producing a very sucessful franchise.

      I love football, and I really enjoy watching NFL games, but they
    • I'm done with football/baseball games until they come up with one of the following

      1) A way to make it play more realistic and less video-gameish. sega was better at this than EA is.

      2) A way to make 4 player (or 2 players on the same team) actually fun. It stinks.

      For now, I'm still playing NHL. Damn 4 player NHL games are fun. Nothing like watching an entire team get checked at once. Switching players is a little insane tho :D
    • That $20 price tag couldn't have lasted, they had to be losing money on it, or close to it. I think it might have been a ploy to get brand name recognition and establish itself as a brand, steal market share from the entrenched competition, and then once it had a loyal fan base, jack the price up and make up the losses.

      Consider: out of that $20, stores keep about $10. After production and console licensing costs, that may have left $6 per unit in revenue. The average game has 3 to 4 times that much gros
      • Year over year sports titles don't require near the developer or artist resources a brand spanking new game does. While $20 is exceptionally low year-over-year sports titles don't need to cost as much as their completely new counterparts. But hey, why make $6 a game when you can make $26?

  • Oh, the irony... (Score:5, Funny)

    by physicsphairy ( 720718 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @08:55PM (#11475492)
    ...the irony of computer geeks staying at home playing physical sports on their computers.

    Well, I'm not really one to talk: the only 'sport' I play is chess. (I wonder what the odds are of 2K making a killer chess engine?)

    • Re:Oh, the irony... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Jerf ( 17166 )
      Computer geeks don't play sports games. They play FPS, strategy, and CRPGames. Believe it or not, its jocks and jock wannabes that play sports games.

      As jock and jock wannabes outnumber us about 6 or 7 : 1, this is also why "our" hobby of computer gaming is becoming less and less about geeks.

      #include <std_generalization_disclaimer>
      • And there can't be coincidence in the two areas? Let's see... I have every game console out there, I've got about 160 hours into my WoW character, I've played D&D and work with databases for a living. My friends are all like that to varying extents. Yet I'm still a crazy sports fan that was devastasted on Sunday after the AFC Championship game and still like to go out and play sports with my friends. And all of my friends are like that. It's people that restrict themselves exclusively to some sort
        • What part of

          #include <std_generalization_disclaimer>

          did you not understand?
          • #includes go at the top of a file, silly. That way, C++ preprocessor inside my brain can physically parse the disclaimer before getting to your actual code.

            Putting an #include at the bottom is like closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped and declared an independent republic where all horses are equal and some horses are more equal than others.

            DUUUUUUH!;)
            • I guess that explains why it didn't work. I thought std_generalization_disclaimer was a text file containing a string, but if it really re-defined my functions after the fact, no wonder it didn't work like expected.

              I'd fix the bug, but the Slashdot source control system leaves something to be desired in that regard. You can only commit once, and never check anything out again. Seriously, who's idea was that?
        • So generalizations that get modded insightful are groovy as long you include a disclaimer? That doesn't really make the post particularly insightful. Just guilty of perpetuating things that don't need to be perpetuated.
        • "Yet I'm still a crazy sports fan that was devastasted on Sunday after the AFC Championship game"

          You must spend a considerable amount of your life devastated since Cowher alone has now honked 4 AFC championshp games at home. (And if memory serves correctly, lost an away one as well.)

          Since I am also a sports fan (video, real-life spectator, and the occasional playing in a real amateur game):
          "coincidence in the two areas"++
          • Yeah, it's a hard break. But then, he's also among the NFL elite in terms of total divisional championships won, and never having an elite QB to do it with. I think that if Ben can become a QB along those lines, and we'd have better support on thet front, Cowher could break out of the shadow of one-and-done Marty.
            • I think a more important step would be to get Cowher to not panic when falling behind. It seems like every time they trail an opponent, the Steelers go back to their blitzing ways (and I'm not talking about the 4-man pseudo-blitz that is the product of a 3-4 defense). He also used to abandon the run as soon as he fell behind by even the smallest margin but now he's moved to sticking with the run when it should be abandoned (ex. defense stacking the box every down). I don't know which one is worse but neit
    • reminds of the film Airborne with Seth Green.

      "you said you were the hockey master"
      "I meant nintendo Hockey"
    • ...the irony of computer geeks staying at home playing physical sports on their computers.

      Actually, sports video games the likes of Madden, NBA Live, etc. aren't really played that much by so-called computer geeks, but mostly by a whole sub-culture of sports video gamers. These sports gamers are primarily interested in the sport simulation angle, and are just as likely to be young and urban, and many play sports. Just watch a Madden Championship tournament sometime and see who's playing.

      And that's why h
      • MLH and Grave Yardage were the games for "the rest of us".
        I'd love to call "Kill the quarterback" on a more recent console then a beat up old Genesis.
    • I wonder what the odds are of 2K making a
      killer chess engine?


      Well, TakeTwo does own Rockstar....

  • What's that leave from Sega? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @08:57PM (#11475514)
    Super Monkey Ball?
    Feel the Magic?

    Good games in their own right, but is it enough to keep the once great Sega empire afloat?
    • In a word, "yes." Sega's games are still huge in Japan, no matter what the rest of the world thinks of them.
    • Off the top of my head
      In the tradition of their new Outrun game they could bring out updated classics like Afterburner, Streets of Rage, Altered Beast.
      They have plenty of life left in most of their current franchises: Shenmue has a big following, The Virtua Fighter series, Sonic, Phantasy Star and possibly Virtua Tennis (I don't think Visual Concepts developed that).
      Their arcade division still has House of the Dead, Initial D, Daytona and Virtua Cop.
      Plus they used to bring out quirky games such as Feel

  • Duke Nukem Forever (Score:3, Funny)

    by lateralus_1024 ( 583730 ) <mattbaha@gmailLISP.com minus language> on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @09:00PM (#11475535)
    Will this have a negative impact on the Duke Nukem Forever ship date?
    • Will this have a negative impact on the Duke Nukem Forever ship date?

      Considering all of the fun we've had at the expense of this title, I'd consider it a positive impact.

      • Comeon moderators? Only you can kill this overused and tired/unfunny cliche... don't spare those points, strike down this crap.

        I'm tired of any "Duke Nukem forever" joke being instant karma. For pete's sake, its DONE already, we GET it.

  • Years too late (Score:3, Funny)

    by halcyon1234 ( 834388 ) <halcyon1234@hotmail.com> on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @09:01PM (#11475550) Journal
    Why couldn't have Sega gotten out of the sports market YEARS ago? If they had, there'd be better Genesis selections in the Rummage Bin than the standard "50000 copies of Madden '94"
    • First of all, Sega did not make Madden- EA did. That was the best selling game for the Genesis and since then Madden Football is the best selling game franchise of all time.

      What kind of company would want to stop producing their #1 product? What kind of business move would that be?
  • It's bad now because when you want to purchase a football game, your only choice will be a overpriced over-rated game that comes out every year just so you can have your football team on it. EA will contend it's not a monopoly, but lets be honest with ourselves, who's really going to buy any other title than Madden?
    • And once EA becomes the only provider of sports games, they will probably freeze gameplay, and only add insignificant features every year.

      Essentially, you will probably be paying $50/year just for new stats (which could have easily been downloaded from the internet if they wanted provide that).

      Note: I don't play any sports games, so I don't really understand why someone would buy versions 2003,2004,2005 of the same game for the same console. Can someone explain this?
      • Its not that EA doesn't innovate. Its that they make their games into arcade games instead of sports sims. The EA NBA games have been nigh upon unplayable, *even on simulation mode*. The recent ESPN (and whatever they were before that) NBA games have been a far better simulation of actual basketball. I swear...EA NBA is like playing NBA Jam...ugh.

  • RIP Sega (Score:3, Interesting)

    by B00yah ( 213676 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @09:05PM (#11475587) Homepage
    Long live the KING! Loved sega sports, since the days of mutant league football and hockey. It's definitely a sad day, and leaves the question, what's left?

    Sure they have a few franchises, but that really can only carry them so far as a independant developer. Frankly, I'll keep praying for the DC portable, which would smash face on DS and PSP (and runs off a single chip, so it is plausible)
  • Well, I've played some pretty gosh darn good 2k games, but it seems like a bit of a niche market these days.

  • Good (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @09:08PM (#11475612) Homepage
    You know what? I'm glad. I know this is entirely inevitable, as the companies seek to dominate the market as best they can. This is bad. However, this also means that there will inevitably be a company that is smaller, more agile, and more creative who will eventually shatter any stranglehold they have on the market. Remember guys, people looked past the fact that Grand Theft Auto didn't license car names. It was the gameplay that was revolutionary. Sports games are the same way. The names are important, but anybody can spoof them without needing a license (parody law?).

    But now I can't think why I honestly care about this. I don't like sports games at all. I don't play physical sports outside, why would I want to be subjected to them on the computer as well?

    • I'd like to suggest that you invent a sport that can be as attractive to the _regular_ people as baseball or basketball. There's a reason that MLB and NBA has established their brand names in professional sports. It'll unfortunately take more than innovative game designers to top the brand power they provide. For example, I don't think NBA is threatended by the street basketball folks no matter how hip or cool they are. In short, I think we have witnessed inevitable (and possibly evil) consolidation of t

    • Re:Good (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Chibi ( 232518 )

      [some thoughts on GTA snipped]

      But now I can't think why I honestly care about this. I don't like sports games at all. I don't play physical sports outside, why would I want to be subjected to them on the computer as well?

      I kind of find it amusing that you point out that since you don't engage in an activity in real life, you wouldn't enjoy it on a computer. But prior to that, you talk about Grand Theft Auto! We can assume some combination of the following:

      1. It's only a matter of time before you are
    • I don't know.

      Because they're fun? I don't play football, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.

  • The NBA was wise not to sign EA's initial offer for exclusivity [gamesindustry.biz], but I hear a sweeter deal is in the works...

    In my opinion, Sega's 2K basketball series is deeper and more intelligent than EA's Live franchise and it's rather sad if no more future versions of it won't ever get released.

  • They sold their mobile/multipleyer unit to Nokia, they sold their soul to Sammy and now this? Looks like Sega is being nudged out of business alltogether!
  • I stopped playing sports games around the 16-bit era. They weren't fun anymore. What happened to making a sports game fun instead of just some lame franchise game? Now if EA's game sucks or you don't like it, you're SOL for a sports game until next year.

    I could be wrong, but I recall games like Double Dribble on NES, Baseball Stars on Neo Geo, and Virtua Tennis on Dreamcast as being fun.

    I mean, they can be goofy sometimes but at least Nintendo is still making good sports games.

  • I don't get why people care that much about the team and player names. Dump the money required to license that garbage and diehard fans will do it anyway.

    Is not gameplay the thing? That's where the real problem is. "Gary," the avid Madden fan mentioned in Greg Costikyan's blog, is absolutely correct--there's very little difference from year-to-year in the actual gameplay. I'm an NCAA Football fan. I did not buy the 2005 edition because the additions in the 2005 edition weren't that big of a deal. I might p
  • Sega is shrinking, Nintendo are making decisions like a bunch of idiots and hemorraging money like crazy, Atari are ancient history... grim days for old skool console gamers like myself.
  • Does this mean sega will start making good games again!?
  • Sega needs a dictionary, because I think they got the idea of seppuku wrong. [corporate suicide]
  • I loved their consoles, but they decided that it wasn't profitable so they exited the hardware business.

    Then a hollow shell of the company continued to produce software for other platforms, and now they announce that they're going to stop producing the most popular games they make (sports games).

    What is left for them? Will they just sit there and "exist" but do nothing? Maybe they can pay other game makers to randomly put a Sega banner somewhere. Maybe they'll turn into a new type of corporate entity... "
  • So, Greg Costikyan [costik.com] is a moron right?

    "With EA "owning" football and Take Two baseball, that leaves a handful of important sports; FIFA soccer..., basketball, college football, NASCAR, and Formula One. I wouldn't be surprised to see deals made for some of these in the next year."

    It's just that FIFA soccer, NASCAR, and Formula One are already exclusive to EA. While the NBA and NCAA both seem to have committed pretty strongly to non-exclusive licensing. Font of wisdom he is not.

  • It is a really bad idea to destroy the poptop brand. I for one always check out every game (i.e. play the demo) that comes out of poptop. That is mostly the case because I had so much fun playing Railroad tycoon 2. And I am the kind of person that actually buys games.

    In fact, a good sign why the poptop brand is so good is that it is already being immitated. I am talking about Popcap software who make cheesy java games (among them insaniquarium which is quite adictive).

  • Great News (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PhotoBoy ( 684898 ) on Wednesday January 26, 2005 @06:02AM (#11478411)
    Now Sega will have to start making games like the ones that made the Dreamcast such and undervalued classic.

    Maybe we'll even get that Shenmue 3 I've been despertate to play for years.
  • While its seems like a big deal, it's really not. All the really good Sega Sports games (in recent years) were actually developed by Visual Concepts anyway. So, sure, they're not owned by Sega anymore, but the studio making the game still exists, and will still be making sports games. So, that's something.
  • You can find more information about Civilization IV from http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=108 315/ [civfanatics.com]
  • They could sell an empty box.

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