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Sony Entertainment Games

Sony drops Router Functions from PS3 133

Posted by Zonk from the make-it-cheaper,-then dept.
astrokid writes "Well, it has begun. Sony announced that the PlayStation 3 will no longer act as a home network router. How long before more news trickles in about the downgrading of other features?" From the GI.biz article: "Whether that means the bank of network ports on the back of the box has actually been reduced to a single port is not clear, however, as the company has previously hinted that it has other plans in mind for the multiple network ports."
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Sony drops Router Functions from PS3 More

Sony drops Router Functions from PS3

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  • I don't thinkt he announcement of the dropping of one feature, is reason to think there is now going to be a flood of other dropped features.

    But, it is disconcerting.
    • Sony will drop features until the PS3 specs are identical with those of Windows Codename Longhorn.

    • Re:Easy . . . (Score:1, Redundant)

      by eyeye ( 653962 )
      I suppose with MS continually dropping features from longhorn people have started to become suspicious of other companies following the same game plan.

    • Re:Easy . . . (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Phisbut ( 761268 )
      Maybe not, but it just proves Nintendo's point. So long before the launch of the next-gen consoles, there's no point in hyping features that won't make it in (Longhorn anyone?).

      Lots of people complained that Nintendo didn't reveal anything about the Revolution at the E3, and that it would lose the console war because the PS3 and the Xbox360 have so many cool features... Well guess what, not only did Sony just get one less cool feature, but they also just got bad publicity.

      Did you really expect to see e

      • Re:Easy . . . (Score:4, Funny)

        by Leroy_Brown242 ( 683141 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @03:00PM (#13035406) Homepage Journal
        "Did you really expect to see everything they bragged about at the E3 actually become reality?"

        Yes, and I also want a pony. :)
        • No, no and NO! You are the Grim Reaper of pets. We already have a graveyard of hamsters, birds, that guinea pig and the little kitty in our backyard.
          OK, the kitty was my fault, but he shouldn't sleep behing teh car wheel. And I am not even counting the tamagochi you dipped in my coffee to feed it... Only imagine HOW BIG would be the hole to bury that thing.
          No way. Not even if you have a fit rolling and screaming in the ground at the supermarket. No. Not. Ever.

    • This is immaterial (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Sony has already established themselves (in the mind of the press and public) as the "most advanced console" for the new generation. Having accomplished this through their littany of features and faked gameplay videos, we will now see Sony move back from their original claims: Less features, lower performance, etc.

      I suggest this is brilliant marketing by one of the world's leading electronics companies, and it won't hurt them a bit.

      Personally, it ticks me off, but hats off to them for playing *us* so wel
    • Except you're forgetting two things:

      1) The hard drive's already been dropped (now only to be available as an add-on purchase)
      2) Sony has a long history of doing this - promising big, then cutting feature by feature until they come back down to reality.

      It's amusing and almost appalling how blatent Sony will simply lie and cook things up for a trade. I mean, with such quick cuts, there isn't even a pretense of them having at one time seriously believed they were gonna get that in their box.

      • Was the HDD ever announced to be anything other than an optional feature, though? I don't recall Sony ever announcing otherwise.

        But, hell, I also haven't been paying close attention to PS3 spec announcements for exactly the reason you mentioned.

    • I think what he meant to say, is that it will be the beginning of the end of features. When the PS2 and XBOX were first announced, they were supposed to be loaded with features. One by one they were dropped. The author means that while the PS3 and XBOX 360 are claimed to be chock full of features. They will be dropped one by one until only the most essential remain.

  • Probably not BOM cost, but service cost (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @12:34PM (#13033887) Homepage Journal
    This decision is probably not driven by the Bill Of Material cost, but the service cost.

    The BOM cost is the cost of the parts to build a gizmo - in this case the cost to have a couple of extra ports is going to be pretty small - on the close order of US$10. While for a device that is targeting US$500 or less that is not trivial, it is not a huge value either.

    The service cost is the cost of all the consumers calling in saying "I cain't git this here thimagigitt to work!" Making this thing be a router while it plays games would increase the software complexity (basically, it would have to be running the Linux kernel all the time, and would have to NOT reboot between games - a paradigm shift for game designers).

    So they probably decided that the router idea just wasn't worth the hassle.
    • $10?
      Typically a company will spend the last six months of a project just getting it to work right. Once your product can be sold you start your cost reduction activities.
      1) Make a chart relating all the features along with the cost to impliment the feature or all parts and the piece price.
      2) Sort list "decending by price"
      3) Brainstorming session to determine what can be made cheaper and what can be removed.

      Multiply your ten dollars by the projected sales for three years. Chances are someone will get a prom
    • The BOM cost is the cost of the parts to build a gizmo - in this case the cost to have a couple of extra ports is going to be pretty small - on the close order of US$10. While for a device that is targeting US$500 or less that is not trivial, it is not a huge value either.

      Not a huge value? Say you are correct and droping these part(s) is close to US$10, now multiply this by how many consoles get sold, the PS2 sold 60+ million worldwide, and we come to a "non-huge" value of US$600 million.

      [sarcasm] Nah, s
      • You make the assumption that Sony would just eat the BOM cost of the feature - a false assumption.

        Sony would raise the ship cost of the box were this feature in place - so they would NOT be out the money.

        However, if they determined that the overall cost of the feature - BOM plus service plus amortized NRE - is greater than the amout the sale price can be raised (greater than the customer utility function), then the feature is dropped.
        • Sony would raise the ship cost of the box were this feature in place - so they would NOT be out the money.

          You're assuming they can raise the price. Too high, and there's no demand. $399 is the last price I heard for the PS3. How many fewer sales would there be at $409? You're now above a psychological breakpoint and fewer people will buy.
    • The other thing to consider here is this: does having routing capabilities really distinguish the PS3? Are people going to buy a PS3 because of routing capabilities? No. Routers are a commodity item now and Windows can do it's own routing if need be. It exposes them to support costs, yes, but also risk. I mean what if somebody hacks those millions of PS3 routers?

      So it seems an obvious business decision to drop it. I think it's one of those pie in the sky ideas that sounded good at the time, but now th
  • Big deal. Did anyone NEED their PS3 to work like a router? Aren't routers like $50 now anyways? That seemed like a worthless feature to me and I have no problem with them dropping it.

    That said, I'd like it if they kept the thing working as a simple hub. You can never have to many network ports (especially now that every game console will want to connect to one, not to mention future TiVos, TVs, DVD players and what not).

    • One could say the same thing about DVD playback...they're like $30 nowadays. The promise of convergence is "this here device will do it all for you, no need to have piles of boxes." As other posters have pointed out, that also means single point of contact for tech support--boon for the consumer, nightmare for Sony.

      You're right though that most people willing to drop the $300-$500 on this console probably don't need another router--another problem with the convergence idea. It's the buried-deep-in-gadgets
      • The difference is that the console will already have a DVD drive, so why not allow it to make full use of that device?

        I will not be surprised when the extra LAN ports are removed.
    • Well one advantage to Sony is that by making the PS3 the router, they could ensure bandwidth is availible for online game play through QoS. That way your P2P downloads don't interfere with your online game.
      • That's true, but it assumes that the cable modem was right where your PS3 was. If that's all you have it for, fine. But if you have computers too, that's probably not a good assumption.

  • Looks like PS2 pattern (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Utopia ( 149375 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @12:37PM (#13033912)
    Sony has a history of doing this sort of thing.

    They promised a lot for PS2 too.
    But features got dropped when it was finally released.

    Same with PSX.

  • Dropped to make cheaper (Score:5, Informative)

    by TheRedHorse ( 559375 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @12:40PM (#13033938)
    If you RTFA, you'd find they dropped it because it was too expensive to manufacture, so I would think they are removing at least 1 if not 2 of the gigabit ports, what does your average consumer need 3 gigabit ports for anyway?

    I'd much rather see a more affordable PS3 than a do-everything PS3.
    • If you RTFA, you would've seen:
      "Also, we want to be able to have a Gigabit port for an IP camera," he revealed. "So one of the ports is an in, and two of them are through. It can be a server as well as a terminal."
      In addition: I'm sure that many people would rather have one ethernet jack coming in from the wall. As more people are getting DVRS, they'd want to be able to have the DVR be able to connect while they still have their PS3 connected. People could also plug their phone into the PS3 if it were

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Nintendo said the same thing about HDTV support and the Revolution, and all the gaming magazines started screaming bloody murder. Even though...

        ...your average consumer doesn't need HDTV support either! Let alone the promised 2 screen support.

        I'm going to have to disagree with you here. While the "average" gamer may not have an HDTV nor care about HDTV support, there are two factors that make HDTV support critical to this generation, unlike having three gigabit network ports:

        1. The current gener
      • Dual HDTV outputs? I assumed that one was a DVI input and the other was an output so the PS3 could act as a passthrough. DVI ports are awfully scarce and HDCP-compliant switchboxes cost a mint. After all, lots of people's DVI ports will already be occupied by a cable or satellite box.

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sylver Dragon ( 445237 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @12:49PM (#13034015) Journal
    Why did the PS3 function as a router in the first place? Last time I checked, the reason I would buy a PS3 is to play games on my TV, and I really don't want my enterainment center doubling as my switch rack. I've got enough wires behind it as it is, without bringing in a bundle of CAT-5 as well. The best place for a router is in a closet somewhere, so I don't have to see the half dozen or so wires comming into it.
    I think that this "feature" is another example of Sony and Microsoft pushing way too hard for the "media center" idea rather than making a good game console. We don't need an all-in-one device that does a bunch of different things, but none of them really well. Just give me a game console, where I can pop a disc/cartridge/whatever in, push a button or two and I am pointlessly slaughtering aliens/demons/humans. I have a DVD player, I will soon have a MythTV box, I have a nice NAT/router box, what the hell do I need these features in my PS3 for?

    • Why did the PS3 function as a router in the first place?

      The idea was that you and all your friends can bring over their PS3's and plug them all in to each other for a lan party. No additional equipment needed.

      I doubt they intended you to plug your PS3 into your modem and serve your whole house as a gateway router.

      • I guess I can see that, but that still seems like a weak excuse, especially for a gigabit port. The games are probably going to be pushing less than 10Mbps of data, maybe bursting up to the 20Mbps range with a lot of people connected, why not just use 100Mbps ports on it? Also, you can buy a 10/100 hub for next to nothing these days. If you have any friends who LAN regularly, there's probably already one or two available for you. On top of that, the article says that the PS3 was setup as a router, if al

      • Re:Why? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by daVinci1980 ( 73174 )
        Yes, but that seems like a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.

        Sony has already eloquently solved the problem of bringing together multiple gaming units and wanting to play games together.

        The PSP has wireless. Ad hoc doesn't even require any setup. Don't give me 3 gigabit ports on the back. Give me one (if you must) and wireless access.

        And anyone who tells you that there is any appreciable lag in wireless connections is full of crap. This is the pingout from my linux box back to m
        • Wireless is fine, and would be for this purpose. The biggest problem that wireless faces in a LAN environment is that it is effectivly a bus network. e.g. If you have a 54Mbps connection, that bandwidth is shared with all of the clients connected to the same access point. This gets real fun when you have a room full of people all pulling large files across the wireless link. I've seen about 25 people all downloading large GIS shape files through one WAP, everyone of them slowed to a crawl, and then conn
    • I don't know either. You and me think alike. But why did all those other people need DVD players in their PS2?

      It's kind of a crummy gimmick to make a game console, which is a want, and combine it with some other piece of home electronics that is still becoming a need. When the PS2 came out the timing was perfect because DVD players were not ubiquitous, but many many people were on the verge of getting one. And there weren't $40 apexes back then. So the faulty logic of hey, I can get 2 in one for cheaper co
      • The fact that the PS2 in my old apartment played DVDs prevented me from buying a stand alone dvd player.

        Last night, at a friends house, we watched Electric Boogeleboo on an Xbox after they realized hooking the stand alone DVD player would be more effort than plugging in the DVD remote for the Xbox.

        That said, I don't really know if either scenarios would have made a difference on the purchasing of an PS2 or an Xbox, but one of the factors I weighed into buying an Xbox over a Gamecube was that it could play
    • The installation base of Gigabit switches and routers is very low right now. Since they want he highspeed networking, they'd also need the consumer to have highspeed networking equipment for it to take advantage of.

      Also, if it's a router, it will have the cable/dsl modem plugged directly into it, rather than being NAT'd behind some other device. This would take care of the port forwarding issue (or, if the router was basically a seperate unit entirely, at least the PS3 would be able to communicate to it us

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday July 11, 2005 @12:55PM (#13034073)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • If I want a router, I will buy a router. If I want a video game system I will buy a video game system. Making something more expensive by adding features that make absolutely no sense is not going to get my to buy your product.

      Well then you're probably not interested in getting a PS3 because Ken Kutaragi himself says it's not a video game console. [slashdot.org]

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re:Good (Score:1, Troll)

        by MBraynard ( 653724 )
        His argument is assinine. The product is whatever they want it to be. I suppose he is still looking for a car that doesn't have a stereo because, damnit, he just wants a car, not an audio system (despite the fact that the best soundsystem mostpeople will own is the one in their cars).
    • if you really think that microsoft isnt going for backwards compatibuility then you clearly havent been reading the news on the next gen consoles.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • My point was that MS is trying for BC, either because they had it planned all along or added it afterwards because of PR reasons. Whether they will accomplish it or how well it will be done wasnt what i was saying. From your last post you made it seem like MS is ignoring BC all together.
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • yeah, which sucks, because i really want the xbox360 to even out the console war. Sony has gotten too arrogent and ken kutagari(sp?) always seems drunk when he makes public statements. An even console war= more fierce competition which is only good for the consumer.
  • Seriously, two things immediately come to mind when I see this announcement: 1) When was the last time anybody had a Sony router that actually worked, and 2) If you need a router, why not just buy one?
  • I'll have to use my existing $30 router. Perish the thought.

    In other news, Westinghouse drops hot & cold running icewater from it's toaster line.

  • And... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by All_Star25 ( 736597 )
    This is why it's not always a good idea to throw a list of all the features a gaming console will have too far ahead of its release date. When you make a bunch of claims ahead of time and then are confronted by issues, it's time to eat some crow.
  • To me it'd make sense to have two ethernet ports on nextgen consoles so that you could daisy chain them together (at least the same kinds) They have so much processing power it wouldn't matter and you wouldn't need a hub or router. The ethernet cables could be really small too since you can stack them now. Don't know much about networking but I'm sure something like this is possible for lan play.
  • I think that the router would have been more for the benefit of non-technical households who do not already have a router and wish to be online who own maybe one computer without a router.

    This would allow kids to have PS3 online access on Xmas morning without having to bug their parents to run out and buy a router or unplug the computer.

    Of course with the increase of routers in the common household it may have been a deciding factor to not include this.
    • the increase of routers in the common household it may have been a deciding factor to not include this.

      You may have hit the nail on the head. Also, the router would be tied to your TV, which would make it worthless in many situations. I'm still hoping the Revolution acts as a wifi router though.
      • In many situations yes, but one large market for game systems is younger men. In my apartment the cable jack (which provides internet access and cable tv) is located by the tv. So is my router, if my router was combined into my game console that would mean one less item on my tv stand.
        • Not only does your TV need to have internet access next to it, but it also should to be somewhat centrally located in your apartment. Simply moving your wifi router will fix A LOT of problems people have with them. My wifi router generally sits near my TV so it's not a problem for my apartment, but my parents house has only a couple locations where the whole house gets decent coverage. One large market for game systems is young guys who still live in their parents house.
    • I'm surprised more Slashdot-types wouldn't actually be excited about the possibility that more non-techie householes would have routers in them. More NAT routers means fewer zombified, virus-spreading PCs...until someone started "pwning" PS3s, of course.
  • Could it be that a software deal did not work out between them and another company, or could it be a response to the non pric matching of Micrsoft and Nintendo, cutting out a license fee per box could cut down on cost, along with maybe changing the ports to a switch, which is easier to do. Microsoft did this when they decided to have dvd support built in, but you needed to buy the remote and pay the 10 doller liscence fee applied to all dvd boxes and threw in a cheap remote.
  • I can see into the future! Sony drops the Nvidia RSX from PS3. "Sony officials announced today that in order to cut costs, the PS3 will not be shipping with the highly touted Nvidia RSX. The RSX was slated to provide uber awesome graphics for the PS3. A spokesman for the company said "Hell, we have seven SPEs. We can let them handle the graphics." In response, the gaming community has rallied around Microsoft and is planning an attack on the Japanese Government."
  • I was hoping for some good multiplayer applications -- 16 players on 4 screens and 4 consoles, say. With the dual TV output, maybe even on 8 screens...
  • I have this feeling of dread that when the PS3 comes out it's just going to be a plastic box with a jelly sandwich in it.

    And the jelly will be missing.

    And we'll still buy the damn thing.
  • as the company has previously hinted that it has other plans in mind for the multiple network ports.

    What other use could they have? Well, as I have used several PlayStation products in the past, these "additional" network ports will be used to replace the main one once it mysteriously stops working.

    No word on wether or not the PS3 will include other such amenities such as multiple drive motors or multiple laser head assemblies.

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