Biases in Simulation Video Games 484
Orsonwarcry writes "Kieron Gillen went to Prague to speak to Bohemia Interactive, known best for Operation Flashpoint. He goes on to discuss the effects of bias on simulation games. 'In other words, a simulation is never just a simulation. Equally, freedom is rarely actually free of designer- imposed desires. Even in games with the most self-expressed mandates of "choice" for the gamer, it doesn't mean that there isn't a message. In Deus Ex, the generally politically liberal Ion Storm Austin created a world where you could choose between violence and pacifistic approaches, but the charismatic characters urged you towards peace while the monsters suggested violence.'" Some interesting stuff in there.
World View (Score:5, Interesting)
Novels, movies, music, painting.... They all reflect some of the creators presuppositions. In a simulation it is the same. A person or group of persons has complete control over what exists, what does not exist and how it interacts. How could it not reflect their view of reality?
Re:World View (Score:2, Insightful)
Video games are simulations of some reality, either real or imagined. When a simulation is actually created by a person, it must be created by a person who is familiar with the experience (or the simulation will bear no resemblance thereto) and is therefore necessarily restricted to that person or people's perception of the experience.
Why would we expect anything different?
Re:World View (Score:5, Funny)
Re:World View (Score:3, Funny)
In other news, Rearden, Inc [rearden.com] said to be interested in working with engineers from Pontifex [chroniclogic.com] and Railroad Tycoon [sedore.net] as part of next-generation simulator to be coded in Objective C!
Re:World View (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:World View (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:World View (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:World View (Score:5, Funny)
(Score:+5, Funny) or (Score:+5, Sad), I don't know which one is it
Re:World View (Score:2, Insightful)
And even if we did, there are psychological factors like the base-rate theory that prevent us from always seeing things the way they are. The conclusion isn't that true, authentic simulations are impossible, it's that the human mind is incapable of creating them.
Re:World View (Score:3, Insightful)
In support of the parent's point, I'd submit to you that your sentence would be more accurate if you'd said "It's much like how journalism is supposed to be an objective view of events.
Even a journalist with the best intentions implants his/her viewpoint into a story. Usually it's not blatant. It's in where the opposing view appears in the article. Is it near the title or only at the end or on the next page where most people don't read.
Re:World View (Score:2)
The choice of stories themselves indicate a level of bias; a journalist only reports on what interests them (as long as it's not major news), and even on the bigger stories still takes an angle that interests them. Personal preference = bias at the most fundamental level.
Re:World View (Score:3, Interesting)
As an example, my opinion was once carried in a local San Francisco newspaper. The journalist (who struck me as having no experience what-so-ever) was attempting to craft a story on Java vs. the recently released
Perfect analogy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:World View (Score:3, Insightful)
As an experiment, let me see if I can explain. Consider the statement "The cat ran out the door." A very simple statement. Should be basically objective, right? Now watch this. "Run" assumes a speed. Speed assumes a relationship to some other speed, either rest or whatever. It's very possible in my reality then that I think the cat is walking out the door. It's not all that fast. Somebody could measure
Re:World View (Score:3, Interesting)
Stereotypes are our brains way of being more efficient. Once we learn a few things about people, we can attempt to pigeonhole others who appear similar, to be the same as the stereotype.
It is efficient because we don't need to do a complete analysis everytime we come across a different person.
Gender roles are largely stereotypical. Women will be more 'caring, nurturing and (insert other stereotype here)'
This allows us to make assumptions,
Re:World View (Score:5, Insightful)
Arguably, the entire point of fine arts is to explore someone else's worldview. While Video Games may have a long way until they can be considered "fine arts", they are just as much about allowing you to explore the author's worldview as a book or movie. Perhaps even more-so, because the author must craft a universe that is entertaining to be in.
To do this he may have to create a caricature universe that enhances certain aspects while de-enhancing others. For example, if I'm playing a Sci-Fi video game I expect everything to be Sci-Fi-ish. All doors slide, everything hovers, metal and plastics everywhere, etc. This is despite the fact that a more reasonable look at the future would conclude that swinging doors and wheels aren't likely to disappear at all.
Creative works are creative works. If you want to complain about simulations, go complain about an F-22 Raptor sim allowing you to an impossible barrel roll.
Re:World View (Score:2)
Fine line between that and annoying propaganda. Many people, when they want entertainment, don't want a lecture. Regardless of how well it's camouflaged.
That said, I liked Deus Ex - still one of the best 5 games I've played - and didn't see it's material as a problem or a political attack.
Re:Piss Christ (Score:3)
Re:Piss Christ (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes.
An awful lot of our (probably any) educationalal system is teaching conformity. That was the real lesson. If you don't like it, go with hippies (worked for me) or homeschooling. And yes, it does suck mighty hard, cope.
In this case, taxpayer dollars were paid to denigrate my friend's religion, and he took action.
What action ?
Prior to the assignment,
Re:World View (Score:3, Insightful)
I can just see the new 'real simulation games' in the military. As some guys come back to their barracks from the field
Limitations of technology (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Limitations of technology (Score:2)
People don't want to simulate absolute reality or else it woulnd't be entertaining. Hence why 'Reality TV' couldn't be further from realism and so many people watch it.
Without a slant or message, there's no emotional element for the player to latch onto and use as a reference point on what 'free range' choices to make in the game (i.e. whether they want to save the world or destroy it for example). Why escape your boring job/homework/whatever
Funx X Perfection (Score:2)
Take NFS games for example, the more realistic the look and feel is the better (at least for a lot of ppl). Getting realism and game play togeather is the key to a great game.
Re:Funx X Perfection (Score:2)
Btw, ok, it's offtopic but it's important and doing the right thing is much more than folow post rules.
I started this to raise the money needed to buy a new barebone computer to the local public school where I voluntarely teach the kids with the basics of computer usage.
The lab now have only two old k6-2 computers running on Fedora. With this setup we can only have 4 students at a time, 2 per computer.
Buying a new box would let us do a better job, taking this kids a s
Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Funny)
Now go turn on PBS while I fire up a MUD, no biased graphics to distract me from good and evil there!
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Interesting)
Few conservatives share *all* traits of the "general conservative"; however, if you don't share a good portion of them, are you actually conservative?
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Furthermore, one can make a strong argument that abortion, harvesting stem cells, and euthanasia are violent acts.
(For the record, I'm a libertarian. I do support the criminalization of abortion. I don't think that government should sponsor stem cell research. Euthanasia i
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Interesting)
I find it very typical of the Republican viewpoint you claim not to espouse that you can wave away war deaths like they're nothing, and then start denouncing people for a moral choice you don't agree with.
One of the foundations of Libertariansim is small government, the very opposite of the sort of large paternal government that would ban abaortion/stem cell research.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Polish forces did indeed fight with everything they had. Fact of the matter is; they didn't have much. Horse cavalry was indeed used, because that was about the best the polish armies had fighting against tanks and airplanes.
The Polish army were in a tremendous technological disadvantage and the same was true for the Czech army at the time, even combined they wouldn't have been any mat
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2, Funny)
It doesn't sound like you're much of a libertarian.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe that the invasion of Iraq was tantamount to mass murder, however I don't have any right to prevent my tax money paying for it. Will the LP help me? I believe that the death penalty IS murder, again my tax money pays for the process - where do they stand on that? I'll admit to not knowing a lot about the LP, but I hope they can at least be consistent.
For the record, I'm for the criminalization of wife-beating too.
I think you'll find assualt is already illegal.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Insightful)
How can ANY Male *EVER* even begin to think for EVEN JUST A SECOND that he has any idea how hard the decision for a woman to have an abortion is?
How can ANY MALE, who cannot/will not ever conceive a child and hold it in their womb EVER decide what a WOMAN can and cannot do with HER egg?
I'm against Pro-life. Call me Pro-Death or Pro-Choice, I don't care.
It's not up for me to decide whether a woman can or cannot kill her fetus. It is up to the woman. Until that baby has a brain and some semblance of 'person' in it (which iirc is the Third Trimester), it's not a person to me. But again, it's also NOT MY DECISION.
It aggravates me that men will step up and decide for women everywhere without even thinking for a second that there is no possible way for them to ever understand what they are deciding.
And before someone starts flaming and telling me 'KILLING IS KILLING YOU MURDERER'... Keep in mind that is YOUR OPINION. Just as this is MY OPINION. Unborn fetuses are NOT PEOPLE (in my mind) until the third trimester. Hence, Pro-Choice.
The joy of my viewpoint is that it allows the WOMAN the choice to do what she feels is right. As she, ultimately, is the one who will be dealing with the ramifications of her choice, I believe it is she, ultimately, who should DECIDE.
Pigeonholes (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously though, if it weren't bad enough that people will try to pigeonhole others with these terms, so many people pigeonhole themselves too! "Well, I'm against the war in Iraq. That would make me a liberal. Does that really mean that I have to consider "Piss Christ" to be a work of art?" Great googly-moogly, people! Find where you stand. Stand there. Don't call names, whether it's at yourself or others.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Consider also that, on the whole, those who would claim to be conservative are for a stronger military and a greater use of that military whereas those who claim to be liberal are for a smaller military and less overall use of said force.
These are just generalizations but they do tend to be accurate.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Now you shut up too.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Therefore Hillary Clinton is a rabid cold-blooded murderer.
Thank you for clearing that up.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Gee, are you at all surprised that people have picked up a subtle association? If you are a conservative, don't bother lecturing me about "true conservatives". These folks have the microphone, and as long as they do,
Good Call (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Funny)
I agree, the Cookie Monster tells me to hurt people all the time and he seems like an ok sort for a monster.
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bias in the player too? (Score:2)
Female characters (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Female characters, augmented! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Female characters (Score:2)
It wasn't until I read a few responses that I realized that you were talking about what her spine is supporting.
Re:Female characters (Score:2)
Re:Female characters (Score:2)
get it now?
More at 11! (Score:2)
See that and more on the Coca-Cola (tm) eleven o'clock news!
Tom
Gold Coins (Score:4, Funny)
Hmm.
Let's put aside the question, exactly in which imminent conflict the armed forces expect to utilize their finely-honed gold-coin-collecting skills.
I look forward to watching the conflict in which the military takes a ball of junk and starts rolling people up in it, or carries ridiculous-sized swords and rides around on giant chickens (Wark!).
Re:Gold Coins (Score:3, Funny)
After the Creation, the cruel god Moloch rebelled against the authority of Marduk the Creator. Moloch stole from Marduk the most powerful of all the artifacts of the gods, the Petroleum, and hid it in the dark cavities of Gehennom, the middle east, where he now lurks, and bides his time.
Your god Yahweh seeks to possess the Petroleum, and with it to gain deserved ascendance over the other gods.
You, a newly trained Neocon, have been heralded from birth as an insturment
Re:Gold Coins (Score:2)
Bias in choices? (Score:3, Funny)
There is bias in almost everything (Score:5, Insightful)
To argue that bias somehow affects the player subliminally, influencing the player towards the bias of the game designer, is to say that people are influenced significantly by what they play or see. However, I have to reject this, from my own experience. I have known many people who play violent video games such as Grand Theft Auto and its ilk who have no inclination to go out and commit those crimes shown in the game.
Bias is inherent in any human action. To make it a central pillar of a video game is foolish because it is uninteresting to anyone not interested in it. Game makers, for the most part, sublimate their biases and focus on gameplay. Whether they succeed or not is debatable, of course.
Re:There is bias in almost everything (Score:2)
Ah, but is it not also interesting to those who are interested in it?
Re:There is bias in almost everything (Score:2)
Re:There is bias in almost everything (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it does matter. Claiming that games perpetuate subtle biases is extremely different from claiming that games cause people to dramatically change their outlooks with regard to morality and violence, and the argument that most people who played the original GTA didn't go around trying to set monks on fire is irrelevant to the question of more subtle biases.
Continuing with the GTA line of though, let's suppose that a game very similar to GTA exists but has real cars (IIRC, the original GTA used fake names to avoid trade name issues, and I assume that's still the case). Let's further consider that it has both Volkswagen Jettas and Ford Focuses as in-game options. In the game, the Jetta provides more gokart-like handling (i.e. more nimbler and quicker) while the Focus is more "solid" and better at handling damage (e.g. pedestrians have less of a tendency to knock you off course). As someone who plays GTA frequently, you are quite likely to internalize the preconceptions that the Jetta is more nimble while the Focus rides more solidly and handles damage better, because that's the way the game is programmed. On the other hand, the real-world incarnations of the Focus and the Jetta (for the 2005 model year) are the reverse--the Focus is a lighter car and arguably better-handling, while the Jetta is heavier and has a better crash rating.
Now, consider the same issue with regard to sexual orientation as treated in the Sims 2, according to the article--the game treats gender identification and sexual orientation as freely made choices, and it allows them to be made without the full barrage of results that occur in the real world. Play that game enough, and it would be quite natural to internalize the idea that those elements of identity are conscious choices (which is contrary to most opinions in the real world--even those who reject genetics as an influence on sexual orientation tend to support extended "treatment" programs to encourage those whose sexual orientation upsets their agendas, implying an agreement that it is not a conscious choice).
In summary, I think it is not the central themes of a game that present a danger but the details; just as non-politically-correct jokes can create a hostile environment, those details can add up to an internalization of biases that may not even be conscious in the developers' minds. And those unconscious biases can be among the most difficult biases to confront in a society--a courageous DA can, with the support of good cops and a crime lab, track down a jackass burning crosses all over town. But it's going to be a lot harder to erase the perception amongst the citizens that a certain ethnic group is shiftless or prone to stealing.
Conflict is interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
hunh? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:hunh? (Score:2)
Only when God or Oil are involved. Otherwise mostly harmless.
Llamas (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Llamas (Score:5, Funny)
Well then, the obvious solution would be to uninstall SimCity and install Winamp, right?
Part of the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, the example of a video game having bias despite free choice is sort of a backwards one. Without some slant to it, there wouldn't be any real esacape element to playing the game. Do players want to be presented with a mulitude of choices from different characters who seem completely abivalent as to the outcome? Bias (while being unhealthy in gargantuan quantities) is what provides flavor in a lot of these simulation games. Otherwise, with no bias, you would have an online chatroom because the majority of people wouldn't know what do to with the simulation in question.
It really depends on what you're trying to simulate.
PC in PC games stands for... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only situation in which bias is obviously a bad thing is when bias is labeled as fact.
Chicken or the Egg? (Score:3, Insightful)
Would the "monsters" be seen as monsters if they did not encourage violence, and would the "charismatic" ones be thought of so well if they did not work towards non-violence? If the characters switched goals, then wouldn't they also switch descriptions applied to them?
Biases even in Civilization (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Biases even in Civilization (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, I always thought that
(1) Go Monarchy, then Republic ASAP.
(2) Grow, kick neighbor ass as need be.
(3) Develop science base through sheer numbers.
(4) Turn Fundamentalist + Hi-Tech Military Aggressor.
seemed to be a much more viable strategy than it should have been. It kept the citizens in line (no unhappiness) and reduced support costs, but you could be a *pragmatic* fundamentalist militarist who invaded when useful rather than immediately declaring a religious war against all emp
Re:Biases even in Civilization (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, a friend of mine and I figured out a pretty serious flaw in Civilization II that makes it easy to conquer the world. Make discovering Democracy your primary goal. Don't worry about building any Wonders except for the Great Library and Great Wall. After you discover Democracy, build the Statue of Liberty, then revolt and switch over to Fundamentalism. You get zero corruption, zero support costs for units and all citizens are content, so you don't have to worry about cities revolting! Your research is slowed down to nothing, but that's why you built the Great Library. You still get the advances! Now that you're a Funadamentalist regime, just have your cities crank out diplomats and buy your opponents cities by inciting revolt! You can roll over a continent in a few hundred years if you've got decent enough roads.
Does this mean that Sid has been pushing his pacifist ideals on us for the past decade?
No. If anything, he's pushing his secret Fundamentalist agenda!
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
No bias (Score:3, Insightful)
"Bias" is a word often used in place of, "thinks differently than me."
Absolute Crap (Score:2)
The day that the social Nazis start imposing political correctness (in other words, their opinions, their will) is the day that the final nail goes in the coffin of commercially produced games. This is just crap, games are built by people, why wouldn't they have an opinion, a view? Or would you like some bland politic
Wait, Deus Ex? (Score:2)
Deus Ex?
Isn't that the game series where no matter whether you choose the pacifist or violent options, the world ends in a horrible and dystopian fashion by the end of the game, and the most choice you have is that you get to choose which dystopian fashion it ends in?
Some "bias".
I'm just finding it interesting..
Bias in games (Score:5, Interesting)
However, that said, I actually found a lot to like about Deus Ex, contrary to what the article seems to imply. First of all, it was a great game. That's the most important thing, regardless of any political messages. However, the political messages in Deus Ex could certainly be seen has having a conservative slant. The United Nations were very much the bad-guys. One of the three possible endings, the Illuminati ending, essentially let you choose to embrace 20th-century capitalism. The guys who led you down the path were shady at times, but their heart seemed to be in the right place. Now, the sequel (Invisible War) on the other hand, seemed a bit more didactic in its approach. Then again, the writing in the sequel, much like the gameplay, seemed vastly less intelligent overall.
Looking elsewhere in games, political messages seem to be fairly broadly spread. There are plenty of games out there, such as the original Command & Conquer and Red Alert, which aren't afraid to paint the West as the good guys and terrorists/the Soviets as the baddies. Similarly, you get games like KOTOR and Jade Empire, which tend to present the pacifist, left-wing choices as "good". Of course, I enjoyed KOTOR and Jade Empire immensely, despite their politics, because they're both good games. (KOTOR 2, on the other hand, I can live without, because it was just too enmeshed in the hack-author love-fest that is the Star Wars expanded universe to have a coherent or interesting plot).
More interesting than the issue of political bias, I think, is the issue of cultural assumptions in games. Full Spectrum Warrior is a good example of this. As is pretty widely known, this game is essentially an adapted version of a tactical training simulator used by the US military. What surprised me about the game was how casualty-averse it is. If a single member of your squad dies, you fail a mission. Moreover, the missions essentially resembled a puzzle game. The bad guys could be counted on to react predictably in any given situation, with surprises coming only if they had been specifically included by the people designing the mission. Now, I guess in the context of a story-based game, with continuity of characters, this makes sense. However, it did make me wonder about the assumptions this would impart if the actual military simulator uses the same parameters. Is it only preparing soldiers for success? Would it result in panic or a loss of momentum in a situation where members of a squad were killed by something unexpected? If the AI in the game isn't programmed to make a banzai charge if cornered, is this going to lead to a blind spot in the field if a real, unpredictable, human opponent tries this? To what extent do we pick up assumptions from games (or films, books etc) that influence how we react in real life?
Re:Bias in games (Score:4, Insightful)
*SPOILERS*
Option 1 is that you restore the Illuminati to power. They reshape the world's social structures to how they were in the mid/late 20th century. National governments are re-established, but the international bodies have their wings clipped. The Illuminati watch over this, but avoid direct involvement. This is, roughly speaking, the ending most favourable for a free-market capitalist. This is the ending I chose.
Option 2 is that you destroy the world's centralised computer network and usher in a new dark age. National and international governments collapse. This is essentially an anarchist ending.
Option 3 is that you hand over control of the world to the Helios AI. The AI assumes the role of an international government, managing security and distribution of resources. Other than that, humanity is left to its own devices. This ending is essentially techno-utopian. A lot of my fairly apolitical nerd friends went for this ending.
The biggest groups left "disenfranchised" here are probably social-democrats and Communists. There's no option to usher in any kind of human-run world-government. No option to push the world onto the path of socialism. You could argue that the Helios route might bring this about through other channels, but you'd be going beyond what's said in the game there.
Bias is nothing new, but comes in many forms... (Score:2, Interesting)
When I wrote my master's thesis, "Virtual Historiography: How History Is Presented in Games Designed for Entertainment," one of the problems I had was that many history "simulations" were written by non-historians. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because they were, of course, designed for entertainment! Playing a game is a two way street: you'll get as much history out of it as you want in order to be entertained, and it's limited
lame (Score:2, Insightful)
- Humans are biased
- Humans make video games
- Games are unrealistic, biased and immersive
Honestly, who knew?It's interesting that he only mentions one real sim in his entire article (Operation Flashpoint).
Some notes: (Score:2)
Circle of Friends! (Score:2)
BARF!
for example (Score:2, Funny)
no kidding... (Score:2)
i.e. you can not separate the information you
possess from your attitude toward that information.
(which in the end, leads to its acceptance or dismissal)
Bias This! (Score:2)
"We would like a quote for the front page of the newspaper talking about videogame violence, and it's possible impact on society."
"Video games don't make people more violent, and I'll kill anyone who disagrees."
<dramatic pause>
"I don't think we can print that."
Open Source Transparency (Score:2)
In other news (Score:2)
We are a society that encourages people to act in ways most beneficial to society. For the same reason our newscasters don't tell everyone to eat babies every night for the sweet, tender protein (drool), we all consciously or unconsciously encourage the values we identify as important to our culture. These values differ from country to country, and personally I jud
Don't corral Deus Ex. (Score:2, Informative)
Say what? As a fond lover of Deus Ex and a player on both fences of the spectrum, I have to say that the Deus Ex series is one of the most realistic good-evil games ever. The "good" side is far from being a beautiful one. The people in trouble in Deus Ex aren't damsles
"This is SimCopter One reporting heavy traffic." (Score:2, Interesting)
Simulated economies (Score:3, Interesting)
To be fair, modelling a somewhat accurate economic system in a game would take way too much processing power for the purposes of a game. You need to simplify stuff. But in most cases the simplification is towards a single actor model. Which is so completely wrong it's ludicrous.
The prime effect of this is the assumption that a autocratic government (e.i. the player) can completely and successfully control all aspects of an economy. Hah! In real life government is always a hindrance and impediment to the economy, because the government interfers in the most basic economic units: the voluntary and spontaneous transactions between individuals. These games can't even distribute resources without the autocrat's (your) help!
To be fair (again), a military game with a reasonable economic model would be bloody boring. All the player would be able to do would be to issue policies and hope that people paid attention.
What I think would be an interesting game would be to have the economy happen "underneath" the player's control. The actual economics happens despite the player, with national prosperity (and government revenues) dependent upon how well you manage to keep your hands out of the works. You don't get to set up trade rates or dictate production or any other hands-on economic activities that most games give you. Instead all you can do is tax/borrow to fund your expansionist military, and hope to heck production doesn't plummet because of it.
What about bias about religion? (Score:3, Insightful)
From what little I've seen of Halo 2 (not much), it also looks like religion plays a driving role for the enemy.
Religion is a factor for good in many people's lives. Yet I can't think of any time it's presented that way in games. It's either absent or evil.
Interestingly, part of my wife's Masters project at library school was to analyze the presentation of religion in fiction, and it's often the same: either religion isn't mentioned or it's bad. Granted, there seem to be improvements recently (last 10 years), so maybe there's hope for video games as well.
That would be because. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Those who argue 'the good side' of religion are ALWAYS thinking through severe myopia. Look around you; World War III is currently igniting on a global scale entirely because of religion. Geek game designers, despite their own over-reactionary limiting biases, (against spirituality), are smart enough to recognize the tom-fool sham that religion is.
So YES, it's going to appear in the media they create.
I find it interesting that fiction writers, (t
Re:What about bias about religion? (Score:3, Insightful)
Happy, calm, non-violent, introspctive, non-zelous religion is relativly boring. It doesn't move plots or provide an explanation for non-rational behavior on the part of "bad-guys." Thus it is of very little use to someone trying to produce an exciting, tension filled story.
A dangerous, brain washing, intolerant, violent, faith based, religion however makes a perfect foil for a protaganist. It covers a multitude of sins as the aut
Liberal/Conservative have been redefined ... (Score:2)
For a demonstration of how this happens watch the ignorant followups roll in complaining that I am right about "liberal" being erroneously applied but I am wrong about "conservative". Many people can not help but demonize their "e
Re:When people ask... (Score:2)
Re:Was Jesus a liberal? (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't exactly true. He wasn't so passive that he refused to admit that he was, in fact, God. This was ultimately what led him to be crucified, the charge of blasphemy.
And I wouldn't exactly call him a passive liberal; if anything, he was a social activist that refused to resort to violence. He worked on the Sabbath (big no-no), taught his followers to turn the other cheek/cloak/walk further with a Roman soldier (actively rebelling against authority by willingly giving up goods & temporary liberty), befriended prostitutes and tax collectors (like befriending lepers today), and inspired a schism in the dominant religion.
He was "liberal" in the sense that he fought against the status quo, but I can't see anything in his actions that could be defined as "passive."
Re:Was Jesus a liberal? (Score:3, Funny)
All of 'em.
Re:Was Jesus a liberal? (Score:3, Informative)
Matthew
Mark
Re:Was Jesus a liberal? (Score:2)
Re:In Fable, the bias is by Gender (Score:2)
Keep in mind I am basing all this on reviews that I have read, as I have never actually played Fable