The Next Gen Consoles - The Bigger Picture 209
Next Generation Magazine is running a series of articles on the next generation consoles, and what they mean in a larger perspective. The Xbox 360, PS3, and Revolution have a lot riding on them as the start of the next round of console wars gets underway. All three companies have their own goals and histories to consider when it comes to the business of games. From the 360 article: "Someone, somewhere, probably still believes Microsoft got into console games for the kudos of putting out Halo. Good for them. The world needs believers, and every time you say 'Xbox is a Trojan Horse', a fairy dies."
Broadly agree (Score:2, Insightful)
First of all, I'm not so sure that MS want the 360 to be a Windows-gaming-killer. If they do want this, then quite frankly, I think they're mad. The fact that Windows remains the only realistic platform for home computer-gaming (and yes, I know you can play UT2004 on Linux. When you can play every other game on my shelf on it, I might start to listen) is a huge advantage for Microso
THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2, Troll)
Microsoft and Sony can *afford* to be unprofitable for a while. In the case of MS's games division, this has been a deliberate strategy to get market share.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
but anyway, I'll bet Nintendo can afford to be profitable far longer than Sony/MS can afford to be unprofitable
Nintendo isn't about to disappear just because it doesn't have to biggest bank balance.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
Nintendo doesn't seem to be investing in the future. Just the opposite, their main selling point is that they're profiting from the past. Less investment now gives you profits right now, but gives you a future where there's no demand for your product.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
No siree.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
you think if MS gets lots of market share then ramps its prices to start making money that it will keep its market share?
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
Nintendo as a company isn't going anywhere.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:5, Informative)
Don't dismiss the Revolution controller so quickly...
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:3, Informative)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Myth. XBOX has a larger global marketshare than cube.
Europe (Score:2)
Every news article I've read says that the Xbox lags significantly in the Asian market, while Cube lags in the US (but not by as big a margin as the Xbox does in Japan).
Every news article I've read says that the GameCube lags in Europe the way the Xbox lags in Japan.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:3, Insightful)
I do get the feeling that Nintendo looked at the gaming world as the SNES neared the end of its lifespan and liked what they saw. Sega had put up a good fight, but they'd been beaten by a moderate margin in the "set top" console wars and been utterly vanquished in the handheld arena. Nintendo had a huge lineup of third party developers who, they thought, needed Nintendo more than Nintendo needed them. They had a huge installed base for their current system and the would-be su
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2, Insightful)
People in the states just prefer a different kind of game than what Nintendo has to offer and Sony happens to have all of the 3rd party developers Nintendo use to have.
I'm willing to bet most of the people who switched to XBoxes were previously Playstation fans, not Nintendo fans. I didn't like the N64 OR the PS1 (I was much more into computer g
The real big picture (Score:3, Interesting)
1 - this is the first time two billion-dollar corporations are launching 1st and 2nd
2 - this is the first time two companies have an arsenal of successful products to backup a flagship console. M$ in windows, Sony in electronics.
3 - this is the first time where internet gaming is already established
4 - This is the first time US vs Japan instead of Japan vs Japan at the start of the gate.
Re:The real big picture (Score:2)
Re:The real big picture (Score:2)
This is the first time US vs Japan instead of Japan vs Japan at the start of the gate.
Remember Atari? Japanese name, American company.
But please, don't make it sound like our patriotic duty to support a company like Microsoft, that has taken advantage in its monopoly in other areas like few others before. I certainly don't want this to happen.
Besides, it might be the (mostly) Japanese game developers who decide the war of the consoles by supporting them.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Everything that you listed except for the dpad was done before, and Nintendo copied. And Nintendo didnt do the first dual analog, clickable analog, integrated force feedback, eyetoy, steel battalion, light guns, etc etc
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
and Light Guns?? Read up on your history. Nintendo INVENTED light guns way back in the 70's. They actually opened up arcades with nothing but lightguns, and then spun that out into a number of odd home versions. The first version of Duck Hunt was actually bui
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
Being really really old and cranky, I can't let this go by as +5 informative.
The first analog console controller I saw was the one Atari made for the 5200 in 1982. Nintendo was not the first to push analog controls.
D-pad? Take an Intellivision controller (circa 1980) and turn it sideways. Instant innovation! Another acceptible answer would have b
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:1)
Nintendo is the only manufacturer that sells the console at a profit. This is a far cry from it being the only profitable manufacturer.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2)
You forgot to add "in the last 2 quarters". Before that both sony and MS made money. It's the R&D for the new consoles that have put both of them in the red. although MS had been in the red a lot before. Sony was rarely in the red.
Re:THE GOLDEN RULE FOR THIS TOPIC (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Nintendo may not be a market leader, but every gamer I know owns a GC in addition to thier PS2 or x-box. I don't think sony or ms can "steal" Nintendo's customers when people are willing to buy both. Nintendo has a very stable niche market that isn't going away any time soon.
Re:Broadly agree (Score:5, Interesting)
At first I thought of a few possibilities: A NES controller with new styling, a touch-pad, a gyro/tilt sensor... but the more I thought about it I don't think any of these will be it. It has been said by Nintendo that the controller is "The Big Gun" so it is most certainly NOT a cheap gimmmick.
Now to take you to task on your statement that access to old games is for the "hardcore"... what, you smokin crack? This move is FOR the casual gamer, and also happens to appeal to all types of gamers. My sister (30-ish non-gamer with kids/family) is already planning on buying one simply so she can play old favorites and her kids can play the newer games and GC titles. She was excited to be able to play Bubble Bobble again, and a number of other old favorites.
You also seemed to miss the fact that Nintendo has already stated they will allow even single person game developers the ability to create content. This is the ace in the hole and most people already forget about this little "feature" While the PS3 and 360 will take major budgets and teams to produce for (which leads to less games over the lifespan and only "safe" games get made - like licensed games, sports, FPS, and some RPG's) the Revolution will get all the indie developers, homebrew crowd, and even new entries... remember shareware and ID? Well Nintendo could potentially be opening the doors to a hundred exclusive "ID's" on top of top-notch first-party titles and some solid third-party offerings.
This race is far from started, let alone in the home stretch.
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
Why do people buy this kind of marketing-talk just because it's from Nintendo. Look at all the ridiculous things MS and Sony have said at various points about their consoles, before they launch. Nintendo have no more claim to credibility. It's not as if they haven't had flops before... remember the Virtual Boy?
And
Re:Broadly agree (Score:4, Insightful)
First off, what do you think about Katamari Damacy? That was basically a one man idea/indie developed game that did pretty damn well, wasn't it? I could go through at least 50 more in just the last 5 years over a number of systems. Snood must only appeal to "hardcore" gamers then too... but wait my grandfather has a copy and so does almost everyone. You're an idiot.
You also have a lack of grey matter if you truly think the Revolution Controller isn't going to be a massively unique design that takes gaming by the balls and twists. Notice how they named it "Revolution" the name is all based on the revolutionary controller. If you think that is just "marketing" you are sadly mistaken. Naming an entire system after a revolutionary designed controller and then not coming through is not even an option, unless monkeys with hot grits in their pants are your marketing department. The controller will be amazing, you seem to forget Nintendo revolutionized controllers to begin with: Game and Watch (the d-pad), The SNES (the shoulder button), the Analog stick (N64), the most ergonomic controllers and well built... gee, they must be full of shit on this new one.
I love how you bring up games like Halo, GTA, WoW, GT4 as being mainstream games. THOSE ARE ALL HARDCORE GAMER GAMES! No mom/child is playing GT4 to unwind and have some fun. No regular joe is playing WoW. Halo and GTA have a target audience of immature teens to early 20's... which is most likely your demographic but far from the "casual" gamer demographic. Wake up!
You have no basis to even try to argue your paper thin case, I'd love for you to keep trying though as it gives me great pleasure to pick apart your fallacies and attempts. Next.
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
You need a napkin? (Score:2)
You're living in a fantasy world if you think Nintendo's 20 year old franchises somehow reach into this casual demographic where the big franchises like GTA, WoW and Madden fear to tread.
Newsflash: the "casual gamer" market isn't soccer moms or nascar dads. It's the immature teens and early 20's that you so smugly di
Re:You need a napkin? (Score:2)
The fact is that no company is going to blow smoke up everyones asses for months dragging it all out and making it THE platform on which their console lives/dies if it truly isn't special. In this business there is hype, marketing,
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
It's nothing but a cheap ripoff of Taito's Puzzle Bobble series. It's therefore *NOT* an example of a "one man idea/indie developed game"
Your point remains unillustrated (Score:2)
Is your grandfather planning on buying a Revolution? Is a soccer mom going to go out and buy junior a Revolu
Re:Your point remains unillustrated (Score:2)
The fact is that on many PC's that have no other games besides minesweep/solitare you will find Snood. That is marketshare.
People like to think the world revolves around them and their favorite console/game. The actual numbers are so skewed if you only live online and in places like
Re:Your point remains unillustrated (Score:2)
I know three or four who bought a PS2 for the Grand Theft Auto Games, myself included.
I know two who bought XBoxes, one for Halo, one for Fable.
I don't know anyone who bought a PC to play Snood, or a Gamecube to play WarioWare (minigames or not, it's still not a mainstream title). I'm obviously not aware of the "true sales numbers", but I know what drives hardware sales, and Snood ain't
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
Last Christmas the number one selling game was the retro Atari/NES/Sega controllers that contained 6-10 games. They were all mostly 8-bit games and no one had a hard time of it, and the sales didn't suffer one bit. Those controllers outsold ALL videogame sales for the entire christmas season. They all we
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
Meh, anyway, I'm sure no slashdotter in the games section, reading an article about game consoles, referring to game companies will consider ID to refer to God. (If someone wanted to refer to GOD games, they'd just use those 3 letters:P)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Expanding into the game market gave them to opportunity to do some innovative things for the console market. Built-in HD and networking hadn't been done before and allowed for
Re:Broadly agree (Score:4, Insightful)
The point is, Nintendo isn't going to pack an gamecube up in a new shiny black box and call it a Revolution.
If it launches 3Q 2006 it could be somewhat less powerful than the Xbox 360
Quite the opposite. If it launches almost a year later, then prices of hardware will have dropped, and new technologies will have arrived, so I would assume they would take advantage of this and make it much more powerful to make up for the time loss. Also, no date has been set yet, last I heard, sometime around E3, was spring 2006 (iwata?)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:3, Interesting)
First of all, I think Nintendo is using the extra time to make the cost of existing technology go down. Moore's law suggests that in 18 months transistor count will rou
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
You see, while the Revolution's launch price will probably be less than the 360's, don't forget that the 360 will have had the better part of a year on sale by the Revolution's launch. Console prices often get heavily reduced at around this point. I would not be in the slightest bit surprised if MS lowered the price of the 360 to the same as the Revolution's specifically to coincide with the Revolution's laun
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
We've already seen Bill Gates promise to launch Halo 3 in the week the PS3 comes out, to try to steal Sony's thunder. Personally, I don'
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
From some rumors that I've heard they want to have a Mario game, Metroid Prime 3, and a new Super Smash Brothers game ready for system launch. Add in the fact that other companies can
I can't see the PS3 doing all that well (Score:1)
I honestly think the Revolution has an easier time in Japan than the PS3 because of the fact that the PS3 is bigger and heavier than the current XBox and to top it off it's going to be expensive. The Revolution is going to be cheaper, small as hell and light. That's perfect for the Japanese market.
In America the XBox will be coming out much earlier, provides plenty of power and will be much cheaper (if the $300 price tag is corr
Re:I can't see the PS3 doing all that well (Score:1)
What makes you think the PS3 hardware will be any faster? oh because it has bigger numbers? Use your brain much? So what's faster a 2ghz intel or a 2ghz AMD? What's faster 3 1ghz chips or 1 3ghz chip?
I will agree with one thing though that I forgot about. Sony has games like GTA, GT and FF. All of which I'm personally bored of (none of them have seen any significant new changes to keep me interested) but they're still huge and that's probably what will help sony win ou
Re:I can't see the PS3 doing all that well (Score:2)
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
I think the goal is to allow developers to write once and deploy on both Windows and XBox.
http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=9 950&filter=interview [gamedaily.com]
"CD: With XNA, which incorporates both DirectX and the Xbox/Xbox 360 Development Kits, we're making the tools to make it easier to make games for Microsoft's gaming platforms. We're looking to the game development community to surprise gamers with new ideas of wha
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
You should not be modded down for stating you think Nintendo won't succeed. That question is up in the air, you may very well be right, and in any case you're entitled to your opinion.
But, I think you should be modded down for this phrase. It's a defensive tactic against mod-downs seen a lot on Slashdot recently (pioneered by Microsoft defenders) -- "Only someone who was a zealot would mod me down!" It was a harsh note in an other
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
Hmmm.... there does seem to be a bit of Nintendo drum-beating here. Overall I'm on Nintendo's side in these things, but it does seem to be a little disproportionate to what's being said in the higher-rated comments. To be sure however, we'd have to set up an experiment with a control, which I suspect would be difficult in a case like th
Re:Broadly agree (Score:2)
As for the "MS games people do have a passion for games" thing, look at stuff like the Flight Simulator series. Hell, look at the fact that they carried on putting out the (generally excellent) Combat Flight Simulator series at a time when major commercial development in the genre was drying up elsewhere. Also look at how they've kept the Mechwarrior franchise alive and well (through both PC and X-Box titles) and even increase
Re:Broadly agree (Score:1)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Cheaper Games? (Score:2)
Don't hold your breath.
Re:Cheaper Games? (Score:2)
Re:Language barrier (Score:2)
Newsflash: in England people speak a language called "English". By all accounts it's fairly similar to English, so I don't think it can be too expensive to translate games into it.
Re:Language barrier (Score:2)
If I can get a job making REAL MONEY as an English - English translator, sign me up!
in short (Score:1, Interesting)
Xbox 360 will have 1-2 extremely good games, have drool worthy graphics, but little more.
Playstation 3 will be the work horse, most note worthy titles will be on it, but it'll have the worst ports.
This is how everything works in the console market right now.
Sony - We can do everything look how flashy we are even if poor quality.
Revolution - Graphics can wait, lets have some fun. Who cares if you only own 10 games, you stil
Re:in short (Score:1)
Re:in short (Score:2)
And Ninja Gaiden.
Re:in short (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it's anybody's game right now. I remember that consoles were much more separated when I was a kid. What kind of console you got really determined what kind of gaming experience you were going to have. Since the last batch, I started to see the lines blurring. The games were becoming similar, and there were a lot of multi-pla
I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:5, Interesting)
It already costs millions to make a decent, good selling, cross-platform game. Can the little guy realy keep up with Ubi-Soft, Vivendi and EA Games when that price doubles? Triples?
The smaller companies will either die off or have to surrender to larger publishers (like the ones listed above). It could be a good thing, but it could also bring an even greater shortage of origionality and risk-taking in the game market, not to mention fewer releases all together. Remember, big production companies don't take risks.
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
Using your logic:
Small bands should have died off decades ago.
Local based retail chains should have ceased all existance in the U
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:1)
Bands don't have to deal with increasing production costs, and most of them give away their music free and/or cheap. Local retail chains don't have to worry about costs for national/international shipping and get repeat business from locals who know and trust the business.
Really i could go on for hours
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
Case in
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
Please read the article
NEXT TO NOTHING to see examples that big budget and large staff are not a requirement to do well in Hollywood either.
As for your GBA/DS heckle... One recent game quickly jumps to my mind, Alien Hominid. Small staff, small budget, big sales. They've done pretty well and they had release on both the GameCube and PS2.
The arcade developer I mentioned is not someon
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
http://www.ideasfactory.com/funding_awards/featur
Re:I'm more worried about the developpers. (Score:2)
Part of the problem is consumer expectation: if th
Indie games on consoles? (Score:2)
No, you don't need 40+ man teams or millions of dollars, unless you're trying to create a game to compete side by side with the big publishers/developers. Indie game development is alive and well
On consoles? How do indie game developers attract the licensed publishers, who are the only ones who have access to the console companies' secret boot methods?
Re:Indie games on consoles? (Score:2)
The guys behind Alien Hominid went from flash to consoles, in a classic tale of indie-team-done-good. Ok, they had plenty of console experience behind them, and I've no idea how much money they had to pu
Re:Indie games on consoles? (Score:2)
Consoles are a different platform (Score:2)
You deliver a completed game to a publisher
Wouldn't a completed game be for the PC and not easily portable to the Xbox, GameCube, PS2, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, and PSP? And what should a developer do when the developer delivers a completed PC game and every licensed publisher turns down porting it to any console?
Nintendo Article (Score:5, Insightful)
Strange, I don't remember Nintendo releasing any technical specs. The writer of this article is just pulling information out of his ass, and the article reflects this. He's another "Nintendo's next consoul is going to fl0p!!!11" because it doesn't appeal to the inner-city "hip" crowd that wants more games where they can shoot heroin and kill anything that moves. He never once mentions that due to the Revolutions price-point (which, by the precedent of other Nintendo consoles compared to it's Sony and Microsoft brethren, as well as Nintendo's own statements about it) will be significantly lower than the competitions. There's a bunch of parents out there that aren't going to buy a $300-400 game console, and they trust the Nintendo brand.
Just another Nintendo-naysayer with no idea what he's talking about.
Re:Nintendo Article (Score:2)
Re:Nintendo Article (Score:1)
And if the quote IS for real then perhaps Nintendo is quoting REAL WORLD NUMBERS and not the BS that MS and Sony are throwing around.
~3x is probably a realistic number for ALL of the next generation consoles.
Do you really honestly believe that just because the numbers are 30x faster that the console will be 30x fast
Re:Nintendo Article (Score:2)
It's more specific than publishing raw polygon counts with no shading, no texturing, no AI, and no realtime audio. It's also better than publishing raw MHz or gigaflops (without telling us what floating point operation they're measuring with). It gives us a point of comparison to something that actually exists, rather than theoretical numbers that mean nothing.
Re:Nintendo Article (Score:1)
Those other quotes are things Nintendo said, not Nintendo fans.
Which makes it funny that you say...
"big N ain't said nothing"
Except for 90% of the crap you just quoted.
"Well, where are the facts?"
Yeah, no shit. Where are the facts dip shit? Where are the facts for any of the next Gen console. Raise your hand if you have facts people come on I dare
Yet another Console Wars Article (Score:4, Funny)
Read up there. Somebody actually called Microsoft's disastrous and at best second-rate "Combat Flight Simulator" series "Generally Excellent"!
Oh, yeah, the article... I spotted this gem: Woah Nelly! This guys craftsmanship mixes some serious metaphors, however clear the picture may be!
Last Xbox... (Score:1, Insightful)
They have already started with XNA and Longhorn to bring a lot of their Xbox experience into the Windows platform. And in the end you hear Bill Gates speaking ab
Muhahaha (Score:4, Funny)
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
I hate those damn fairies.
Xbox is a Trojan Horse ...
Xbox is a Trojan Horse
Xbox is a
Re:Muhahaha (Score:1)
"Hey! Hey! Listen! Hey! Listen! Listen! Hey! Listen! Hey! Hey! Listen!"
*twitch*
Hiding in the shadows (Score:5, Insightful)
Then there is Nintendo, hiding in the shadows, watching the two titans waste their hit points (and money) fighting each other. Nintendo could potentially give the fatal blow to the , with a low cost unit, and huge classic game library. They're taking a risk by not supporting HD. But probably a very calculated risk, as HD won't be fully adopted until the very end of this next generations life cycle. And they aren't betting the farm like the other two.
My guess is, if someone is going to fall this next round, it will be either Sony or Microsoft. IMHO.
Re:Hiding in the shadows (Score:2)
Yes. It's called defending their dominant position. Thanks for not adding anything new or insightful to the discussion, Anonymous Coward.
Re:Hiding in the shadows (Score:2)
I hope you don't mean me. I'm a nintendo fanboy, all the way. Out of the next three, the 360 is last on my list. But just because I feel that way doesn't mean I can't make a feable attempt to look at things semi-objectively.
Microsoft could easily become the industry leader if HD-DVD becomes the next media standard. Sony is betting the farm with Blu-ray. If blu-ray fails, the PS3 will most likely fail. Same could happen to Microsoft if Blu-ray succeeds.
Re:Hiding in the shadows (Score:2)
The difference between Blu-Ray and all the other mediums you just listed (records, cassettes, VHS, CDs, DVDs) is that those were all already established in the market place. Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD have made their way into the hands of consumers.
Both Microsoft and Sony are partially relying on their choice of HD technology to be adopted by the masses, so that more units are manufactured and sold, so that the prices for these technologies eventually come down. New technologies are
And those goals are... (Score:5, Funny)
Sony's goal: spend more money than Microsoft
Microsoft's goal: spend more money than Sony
Nintendo's goal: profit
Re:Trojan Horse (Score:4, Funny)
=:-O
One right here (Score:2)
Gears of War looks exactly like PS3 offerings. (Score:2)
I can tell you - a few poor games don't make a system. Launch titles can be cool, but are generally worthless as indicators of a system's power or future in the market. That picture changes within a console's first year of release. If you don't have anything cool within a year, you're hosed.
I don't think XBox 360 falls into this category. T
Re:Gears of War looks exactly like PS3 offerings. (Score:1)
The graphics engine for Dynasty Warriors 3, for example, was updated for Dynasty Warriors 4, and updated again for DW4:Empires. A later release, Samurai Warriors, used a different engine capable of more detail and more characters onscreen. After that, the Samurai Warriors engine was used in Dynasty Warriors 5 after m
Re:Gears of War looks exactly like PS3 offerings. (Score:2)
Well, because graphics sell consoles (or at least have sold consoles). Sometimes, it's a sign of how much a developer's vision is limited by hardware.
Lots of current generation games on the PS2 and GameCube had their graphics engines made and used once... Do you think it won't have engine enhancements from the PS2 version?
There goes my point! Oh... you missed it.
See, the parent poster went on and on and on about how the graphics are lousy on t