



CA Officials Respond To Lawsuit 80
Gamasutra is reporting on Yee and Schwarzenegger's response to the lawsuit brought in response to the violent games bill passed recently in California. From the article: "History has proven in cases of child labor and physical assault on children that we can and should pass laws to protect them. I am a strong believer in the First Amendment and in free speech, but when a game allows a player to virtually commit sexual assault and murder, as a society we must do what we can to protect our children, as we do for alcohol, tobacco, and pornography, among other items," We've previously reported on the passing of the bill and the filing of the lawsuit.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Oh, really? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh, really? (Score:1)
Are you saying that there should also be strick age limitations on buying and renting violent movies too?
Video games are only being scapegoated, because of that Columbine deal a few years ago. After the nerds and social outcasts had been victim of thousands of "minor" acts of violence and harrasment, they do something to get
Re: (Score:2)
Sexual Assault??! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sexual Assault??! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Sexual Assault??! (Score:2)
Linky [somethingawful.com]
Re:Sexual Assault??! (Score:1)
Re:Sexual Assault??! (Score:1)
Re:Sexual Assault??! (Score:1)
I can't seem to summon the right onomatopoeic text to go with the shivers I am experiencing right now. I'm afraid if Thompson saw it he would want to declair war with Japan or start some kind of video game trade embargo.
Re:Answer. (Score:1)
Note the irony of it (Score:5, Insightful)
This just proves who's fooling who.
Community values protect when family values fail. (Score:1)
As with most everything in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. In a perfect world, family values may suffice. But when the parents are negligent or abusive, then community values should be there providing a safety net to protect children and spouses.
Re:Community values protect when family values fai (Score:2)
Correlations (Score:4, Insightful)
Where's the direct correlation between virtually committing murder and physical violence among children? Consuming alcohol and tobacco physically affect people directly. People are afraid virtual violence leads to real violence, but where's the proof? Especially with the rates of reported crimes dropping I'd like to see politicians showing evidence before passing laws.
Re:Correlations (Score:2)
Re:Correlations (Score:1)
You don't want to prove correlation, you want to prove causation. And as everyone knows, causation between sociological factors is hard to prove becaue we can rarely run controlled experiments. But one can sometimes reason that a causation might exist. For example it seems reasonable to argue that kids might emulate, in the real world, the behavior of people in video games. In fact, I can't really see
Re:Correlations (Score:2)
Re:Correlations (Score:1)
If You Only Read Sudies That Support Your Belief.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Ye "As a trained psychiatrist, I know how important it is to not expose children to these kinds of things. Many studies support this."
PCG "What about the many studies that show absolutely no correlation can be proved."
Yee "Statistics can be manipulated. I know how important it is. Many studies support this."
PCG "What about the fact that the violent crime rate in teenagers has dropped every single year since the release of the PlayStation and is now at half its peak ten years ago and the lowest it's been since the 70s."
Yee "Statistics can be manipulated. I know how important it is. Many studies support this."
In other words, he's formed his opinion and, whilst quoting statistics that suit him, has absolutely no interest in even exploring the massive weight of evidence to the contrary because statistics can be manipulated.
The amazing thing is he doesn't even seem to be embarassed to feed such a load of clearly self serving bull.
equating video games to vices (Score:2, Insightful)
In making this statment he is basically equating video games that contain violent or sexual material to alcohol, tobacco, and porn. The problem is that in order to make such an absurd claim hold any weight, you would have to assume that any form of media or literature that contained violence or sexuali
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:4, Insightful)
IMO, it's not. I think the FCC should get off their collectively paid off asses and slap the $hit out of FOX and the other broadcast channels for BROADCASTING unexceptable content. Cable on the other hand, I feel should be free to do as it pleases.
And I'm personally okay with this bill (from what I know of it). All it is (so far as I know) is a legal representations of the maturity rating on the box. It would be similar to a law that banned anyone under 18 from seeing an NC17 movie. So far as I know, there is no such law, just an accepted standard at (most) movie theators and rental stores. The only concern I have is who decides the video game rating? A government body? ESRB? Publishers?
The government already has laws barring the sale of pornography to minors. Which is what this seems to most closely related. I mean, if someone went out and made a high quality movie version of GTA, it would be hard pressed to get under a NC17 rating.
To reveal any bias I may have, I'm in my mid twenties, loved GTA and it's spin offs (Vice City was my fav!), and have a 2 year old son. If I as a parent feel my son is mature enough to saftly enjoy GTA, I'll buy him a copy. If I as a parent feel my son is mature enough to saftly enjoy an alcoholic beverage, I'll buy him one. But I don't want my son running out and buying his own alcohol, porn, violent movies and video games on his own. Atleast, not in America, our mind set is way to #$@!ed up for that kind of responcibility.
-Rick
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:1)
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:4, Insightful)
The government already has laws barring the sale of pornography to minors. Which is what this seems to most closely related.
I fail to see what about GTA would even get it an NC-17 rating. The worst thing you could even see beyond violence would be the hot coffee mod, which shows two blocky cartoon charaters, with clothes on, engaging in consensual sex. You can't even see any sexual organs. Hardly relating to porn. Nothing that you couldn't see in an episode of the OC, except for maybe the cursing. Definately nothing here that you wouldn't see in any R rated movie. The point is, the government doesn't exert any control over who see's what movies, or reads what books, so why should they control who plays what games? They are trying to make the argument, without any evidence, that this kind of content is more damaging in video games. But if that were true, why has youth violent crime been dropping for the last 10 years, while video games sales have skyrocketed? This is issue has almost nothing to do about protecting our youth, and has everything to do with political sensationalism. If they were really concerned with protecting kids from this stuff they would be going after fox as well, but they won't because there is no perceived political gain from doing so. I think that a few years from now, we'll look back on this the way we look at people like Tipper Gore who were trying to protect our youth from the evils of Twisted Sister. What I wonder is, will this cycle keep on repeating itself forever? Will every new form of entertainment undergo this type of censorship by the older generation that is out of touch with the modern world? I sure hope not.
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:2)
And I agree completely with your point, I don't think that video games should be accused of unproven and even refuted statistics. And I definately don't think they should be used as a political agenda.
But at the same time I wouldn't allow my child when he turns 10 to watch COPS (violence, blurred out nudity, cursing, prostitution, drugs, etc) which is pretty comprable to the content of GTA:
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:1)
In any case, its ultimately up to the parent to educate and/or prevent there kids from seeing or doing something. If they want it bad enough, kids are smart and will find a way around most things anyway. And if they want something that bad, we should probably ask ourselves why that is, too.
Also, another thing to ask yourself... how long will it be before there IS a game where you can full-on rape someone? It's all a g
Re:equating video games to vices (Score:1)
Anyway, statistics about dropping teen crime rates aside, I have no problem with the law either. It's pretty lame to whine about lost profits because you cannot sell ultraviolent bloody games to a 14 year old, then to feign some freedom of speech issue. (Which it may be, but it's a stretch that freedom of speech extends to adults pushing such things on children wi
Apples & Oranges (Score:4, Insightful)
If that was the logic used in writing and passing the law, then the goals of the law should have been satisifed with a single state-required disclaimer attatched to all video games: "No children were harmed in the making of this video game."
Seriously, kids don't go out and say "Yippie skippie, I wanna work in a coal mine for 12 hours a day!" or something similar.
Re:Apples & Oranges (Score:4, Funny)
Appearently, if you made a video game about it, they would!
"Oh... you load sixteen tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt..."
I can see that working, can't you? After all, people played SWG!
Re:Apples & Oranges (Score:1)
Re:Apples & Oranges (Score:1)
> I wanna work in a coal mine for 12 hours a day!"
Ummmmm...
Some of you younger kids may not remember Ultima Online, but you could spend 12 hours a day mining, or logging, among many other things. Not just the later on smithing parts, which a lot of other games have, but tedious "mining" activities.
I wonder how many teens or 10 year olds whined that "Can I take out the trash later, Mom? I'm performing simulated manual labor for hours on end!"
Re:Apples & Oranges (Score:2)
Find me somebody that's come down with black lung as a result of playing Ultima Online and I'll relent.
Re:Apples & Oranges (Score:1)
Re:The real problem is the advertising. (Score:3, Insightful)
Magazines are the same thing. You said that we shouldn't advertise M games in gaming magazines because c
Re:The real problem is the advertising. (Score:4, Insightful)
That would mean no commercials for rated R movies/DVDs during "prime time", no pg-13 during the hours that even younger children are watching TV, especially on the weekends. Oh, and don't forget alcohol ads on before 10pm, yes, even during the sunday afternoon football games.
A quick flip thru just about any magazine in the country shows numerous movie advertisements for movies a child shouldn't see and tobacco ads. And these are magazines that any 9yo can pick up at 7-11. Not just gaming mags. And all readily available at the 'checkout counter'.
Let's not forget about the Evening news. Nobody's regulating all the sex, violence, drug use, violent sports, etc. shown to children on all the major network 2-3 times an evening. Are CNN, FOX-news and MSNBC regulated by the vchip? Better call your congressman.
Forget the fact that the Justice Department data shows that Juvenile Violent crimes are at an all time low and have been dropping steadily since the mid 90's. Some kid with emotional and mental problems stole his dad's gun and shot another kid in school someplace in middle-america. Since the news media found an X-box in his bedroom, there *MUST* be some correlation, so let's ban video games.
Idiots
Re:The real problem is the advertising. (Score:1)
Re:compared to real (Score:2, Insightful)
Make consistent w/movie industry (Score:1)
I DO think that video games need a rating system and sales limitations, though they should at least make it consistent with the movie industry which is pretty much the same issue. I DON'T think it should be totally open since it seems pretty
Re:Make consistent w/movie industry (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't be upset if they wanted to keep M and Ao rated games out of the hands of minors. The problem is, they (CA government) wants their own rating system. So, if the ESRB says a game is rated T, and I sell it to a 16 year old, their parents can say "This game is too violent" and I'll get sued.
Re:Make consistent w/movie industry (Score:2)
I might me mistaken about CA, but where I live, movie ratings are voluntarily enforced and not compulsory, which in my opinion is a good thing - I wouldn't want to require every movie made to have a rating because that would create the opportunity for one organization to oversee the rating process who, in turn, could really take a
Okay then... (Score:3, Funny)
(insert "warming up" sound effects here.) "I raped and then strangled the puppy. Then I used the puppy's dead body to bludgeon a little old lady to death. After that, I walked across the street and flung both bodies on somebody's lawn."
There. I have "virtually" committed bestiality, animal cruelty, elder abuse, murder, jaywalking, trespassing, and littering, using technology that is readily available to children, with no more effort than it takes to post to Slashdot(tm)!
How many more will have to suffer before computer keyboards are outlawed for minors?!?!? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
Re:Okay then... (Score:2)
Re:Okay then... (Score:1)
Re:Okay then... (Score:2)
Smacking (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Smacking (Score:1)
Re:Smacking (Score:1)
I meant No, it's only illegal to smack kids in video games in CA
Re:Smacking (Score:1)
I also note it's only illegal to tell a dirty joke in front of adult women in the workplace, not in front of children at the mall.
Chilling Effect (Score:5, Insightful)
Except, as the judge found in that case, such a "protection" creates a "chilling effect" upon free speech and thus is unconstitutional.
A requirement for videogame stores to respect ESRB ratings is one thing. That has no "chilling effect" upon publishers creating new works.
Demanding a 2inch by 2inch bold logo on the front of a game stating it's 18 changes not just parental awareness (which can be covered by ESRB information displays) but serves to villify such titles, embarassing legitimate customers who don't want to be perceived as "bad" for purchasing them.
Similarly, it is reasonable to ask that publicly displayed adult magazines are placed out of children's reach and have either a non-sexual cover or that that cover is hidden. It is unreasonable and has a "chilling effect" to demand that adult magazines have a bright neon slip cover advertising "ANYONE WHO BUYS THIS IS A SEX ADDICT!" One protects children, the other has a chilling effect on the entirely legal sale of the product to those legally allowed to buy it.
The California law's problem is that it oversteps from being truly about protection of children in to "chilling effect" territory.
And WTH is the problem? (Score:2)
Yes, that big red box means "it's an 18+ game!!" Well, blimey, and I'm well over 18. That's a fortunate coincidence, eh? Yes, I'm buying a game that's deemed not suitable for children. And I'm not a child. The problem is...? Why should I
The simple answer (Score:2)
Problem solved WITHOUT the need to stick big "adults only" stickers on the boxes.
Videogames that let you commit sexual assault???? (Score:2)
Let's see, even in GTA3, where there are prostitutes, that sex is consentual. Sure you can run them over, but you can do that to anyone in the game and that isn't sexual. Even with the Hot Coffee mod, it is also consentual.
Aside from old Atari 2600 games like Custer's Revenge, where are these sexually deviant games???
It couldn't be that the
Far too many idiots in this thread. (Score:1)
Re:Far too many idiots in this thread. (Score:1)
The problem with self regulation isn't the companies that are creating the games; it is with the people consuming them. Video games are no different than movies in this regard. I saw a parent walk into -Sin freaking City- w
wtf? (Score:2)
So the reason we want to prevent violent crime isn't that we want to protect the victims from harm but the children who typically commit that crime from getting corrupted? WTF?
Guns don't kill... (Score:2)
Firstly, children should be protected - that anybody can even appear to reject that thought is deeply worrying. Protecting offspring is so fundamental to the survival of most species, that only the most primitive animals don't do it.
Secondly, as for who should protect our children, I think this is the responsibility of all - the parents, obviously, but society as well, and not just 'the government' (as
Re:Guns don't kill... (Score:1)
And as for comparing to DVD's, there is a big difference here. You watch people commit crimes in films, in games you participate.
Killing people with guns is not big or clever. Go play pikmin!!!
Re:Guns don't kill... (Score:1)
This whole law flat-out sucks because it's the government's attempt to control what parents admittedly can't! Have some balls, stand up to your kids and tell them, "NO, you can't have that game, I SAID SO." They don't need a reason, you are the final say in the matter and if your kid turns to your significant other and asks the same question, he/she better be bright enough to examine the
Re:Guns don't kill... (Score:2)
Anyhow, as to your point, I'd add that what people seem to be forgetting is that it's not only the idea that someone playing the latest hack'n'slash is then going to become a psychopathic monster, thankfully that'd be rare. However, how se
Re:Guns don't kill... (Score:2)
And claiming that its any more or less "real" than movies is total bullshit - in fact, my children are far more likely to act out shows on TV than they are the games they play, because if they want to act out the game, they can simply *play the game*.
Your argument can be summed up very simply: blah blah, I can't imagine anything o
Re:Guns don't kill... (Score:1)
Firstly, children should be protected - Duh.
We all have a duty to protect all children. - Duh.
Finally, trying to deny that what you do in a computer game will influence what you become as a person, can only be the result of massive ignorance. - Insulting, but technically accurate. Nothing we experience is ever erased.
It makes perfect sense to me that there should be restrictions on violent games, and that it should be enforced by the authorities. - Schwaaaa
I am not a racist but... (Score:2)
Dang (Score:1)
Karem
Is it possible that they are right? (Score:2)
I was amused at some of the respones. "Oh! I guess that means space invaders is bad. blah blah blah..." Tell me the last time Space Invaders involved murdering innocent people. Tell me the last time America's Army involved raping women. Tell me the
Re:Is it possible that they are right? (Score:1)
What's that? You can't? Gee, I wonder why.
Probably because the ESRB wouldn't rate those games anything other than AO. In fact, they probably wouldn't rate them at all. You know, that ESRB that supposedly isn't doing anything to protect anyone, and is getting paid to rate eeevil games low so kids will buy them?
On the other hand, A Clockwork Orange - which contains a nasty mix of rape a
Re:Is it possible that they are right? (Score:2)
#1 I didn't know you were online typing that message. It's a static forum.
#2 Even if I did, I couldn't wrestle away your keyboard. I'm probably several thousands of miles away.
#3 I was asleep.
#4 I wouldn't have played such a game anyway. But from what I hear, you can have sex with a prostitute in GTA and then murder her. I don't know what you call that. Perhaps that's not sexual assault in your opinion. In any case, a woman
Talk about bad comparisons (Score:3, Funny)
Physical act that harms someone
and physical assault on children
Physical act that harms someone
a game allows a player to virtually commit sexual assault and murder
Virtual act where nobody is harmed
alcohol, tobacco
Physical items with harmful effects
, and pornography, among other items,"
At last, the only thing that actually compares! Wow, yeah!
Now, hang on. What did we do about porn? Yes, we passed laws that allows only adults to buy them.
So we need a law that allows only adults to buy violent titles, like GTA. Say, people over 17? Hey, wait. We already have these laws, you fucking idiot!
Re:Talk about bad comparisons (Score:1)
freedom of censorship (Score:1)
Mirror Neurons (Score:1)