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Sun Microsystems Entertainment Games IT

Sun Claims They Make Worlds Biggest MMO 56

Posted by Zonk from the selling-currency-not-illegal-in-that-game dept.
Next Generation has a piece up examining Sun's claim that they develop the worlds largest Massive game: the stock market. They also go into some detail about Sun's actual MMOG middleware, Sun Gaming Server. From the article: "I argue that we've been the principle architect of the largest massively multiplayer online game in the world. It's Wall Street. If you took a look at all of the mechanics that go in to building an online trading system, they're almost one-for-one, the same functions needed to build an MMOG. Except we've done it with more redundancy, reliability and scalability than pretty much anyone else."
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Sun Claims They Make Worlds Biggest MMO More

Sun Claims They Make Worlds Biggest MMO

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  • what you hear on the floor (Score:5, Funny)

    by darkmayo ( 251580 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:35AM (#13896431)
    WTS [DOW Jones Stock] PLS SEND TELL!!!!11

  • I'll go with it. (Score:5, Funny)

    by torchdragon ( 816357 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:36AM (#13896436) Homepage
    I suppose that's a fair statement. Wall Street has its fair share of Min-Maxers, Power Gamers, and Exploiters all the same. The Broadcast and Trade channels are full of people trying to rip off the casual players. And most people are throwing away money every month for the ability to waste time and energy on a world that doesn't exist. Yeah, I'll agree with that statement.

  • Cool... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AlltheCoolNamesGone ( 838035 ) * on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:37AM (#13896446)
    You know a stock market MMORPG might be a good idea, hell I'd welcome anything that isn't another "me too" fantasy MMOG. Think about it, no classes, no levels, just your wits and some start up money you inherited or something. I'd pay good money for that...

    More on topic: There main selling point seems to be the ability to run more than one type of game for different end user hardware. Which would lower may lower the cost to MMORPG currently available and developing in the future, so I guess we will be seeing even more MMORPG.... More is not always better......

  • Hmmm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:42AM (#13896466) Journal
    The article is actually pretty interesting, and worth reading as the completely-missing-the-point summary here doesn't do it justice.

    I don't, though, buy:

    It's like saying television programming cannibalizes each other which is why we only had four television networks. Well cable came on the scene and we now have 250+ channels of programming that blew a hole right into the side of that market space. You could say that most of those channels are crap, but there's an audience for every single one of those channels. I don't think the people running Home & Garden Network are in any way cannibalizing the Sci Fi channel's audience.

    Is he kidding? Of course cable channels have cannibalized the broadcast networks! The 250th channel may not be taking viewers from the 249th, but channels 5-250 sure as hell took viewers from 1-4!

    • Maybe I'm misreading what you quoted, but it seems to me that you guys agree with each other. You both state that the assumption that 4 networks was a crowded and competitive market was wrong, revealed by the fact that that now that we have hundreds of channels, most of which do quite well.
    • What you are neglecting is that the viewer market is not a "fixed pie" of viewers that is carved up among the channels. Actually, as the networks multiplied and grew, and more and more entertainment was available, the market itself also grew, so that the "pie" was much bigger.

  • Rated M (Score:4, Funny)

    by LoverOfJoy ( 820058 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:42AM (#13896467) Homepage
    And often, when you lose at the game, you commit suicide. Rated M!

  • It's true (Score:5, Funny)

    by oni ( 41625 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:43AM (#13896473) Homepage
    I've played a lot of Stock Market. The end guy is hard

  • Scary (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @09:54AM (#13896536) Homepage
    You know...there's something really scary to imagine those hardcore EQ, WOW, and w/e players getting into stocks. I seriously think they could give a lot of traders a run for their money if they got into it.

    Whats even scarier is the fact that there are Sun banner ads for this article...coincidence? I think not.

    • Re:Scary (Score:4, Insightful)

      by dasunt ( 249686 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @11:21AM (#13897304)

      First off, the usual disclaimer: I am not a financial adviser.

      That being said, one of the more productive strategies in stocks seems to be holding stocks for long periods of time. This is looking at the long term, not the short term. Can MMO players, used to instant gratification, understand that sometimes their investment fluctuates in value?

      The stock market would be equivalent to a game where all NPCs give a range of XP: Sometimes its negative, sometimes its positive. Some NPCs give a negative net XP. Some NPCs give a positive net XP. The XP (negative or positive) is highly dependant on the amount of XP you have. Have more XP, and you get more XP (or lose more XP). Of course, whenever you leave the zone, you get hit with a capital gains tax. :p

      Now that I think about it, that would be an interesting experiment to run on a MMO.

      • Re:Scary (Score:3, Interesting)

        by servognome ( 738846 )
        Can MMO players, used to instant gratification, understand that sometimes their investment fluctuates in value?

        Ever try camping something in EQ? People definately show a lot of patience and deal with ups and downs (eg failed raid attempts that lead to long corpse recoveries). If they think there will be a payoff.
  • Except we've done it with more redundancy, reliability and scalability than pretty much anyone else.

    Way to brag. Does it have anything to do with the money there being real? I am also swinging higher than the kids in the park.
    • Or that fact the stock market isn't as dynamic, complex as current MMOGs. And also not a virtual 3d world with thousands of inhabitants on at any given time getting regularly patched with new bug inducing content.
      • You may wish to research exactly what the 'stock market' consists of. It is just A LITTLE more compless than you make it out to be.
        • You may wish to either back up your comments or not make any.....
          • Hundreds of self clearing brokers plus thousands that clear thru other means. Millions of transactions per minute across dozens of networks (NASDAQ, NYSE, Options, Foreign Exchanges, Bonds, Commodities, BB stocks, hundreds of support companies (real time quotes, real time exchange information (level II, others)))

            A series of google searchs will let you know the basics of who it all works. Or ask me some questions as I used to do that sort of thing.
            • Fair enough. Up to now all you've mentioned has been numbers. A large amount of numbers mine you but still thats all there is. Is there anyway that the stock market cant compare to the amount information needed to render a dynamic 3 dimensional world with 10s of thousands of individuals inhabitants not counting the NPCs?

  • To a point (Score:2, Interesting)

    by xalres ( 668363 )
    I agree with them to a point. MMO economies often mimic Wall Street. The big difference being: If I fail to save Princess Pretty-Pants from the evil Rat Wizard it doesn't have the potential to send a multinational corporation with thousands of employees into a tailspin from which it will never escape, effectively ruining the lives of many, many people. Considering its effect on the economy and the well-being of normal people, thinking of the stock market as a game is a dangerous thing.
    • I don't think their point was that the economies were the same. I think the point was that the server technology required to run stock trades was the same as the server technology that makes up the backend of an online game.... And if they can make it work if there are real dollars on the line; when it isn't a game, imagine what they can do with your actual game.

  • O RLY (Score:3, Funny)

    by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @10:25AM (#13896734)
    Worst. Game. Evar. (Sorry, it had to be said. Now, I'm off to WTFPWNBBQ those N00BS at NASDAQ. Zerg foreign currency FTW!)

  • Don't get into it (Score:3, Funny)

    by bradbeattie ( 908320 ) <bradbeattie&alumni,uwaterloo,ca> on Friday October 28, 2005 @10:27AM (#13896746) Homepage Journal
    The Stock Market's been around for how many years now? Pfft. Just wait for the sequel.

  • utility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ameoba ( 173803 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @10:28AM (#13896763)
    We believe in order for the online multiplayer game space to really flourish, we have to start moving toward a utility model for online computing


    Yes, we know just how successful Sun has been at promoting computing as a utility... [slashdot.org]

    • Yes, we know just how successful Sun has been at promoting computing as a utility... [slashdot.org]

      Did you read the comments in that /. article that said the Register was being deceptive and that Sun did have customers for their Grid? The comments even linked to articles (on other sites) where happy customers extolled the virtues of using the Grid.

  • EVE-Online (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    http://www.eve-online.com/ [eve-online.com]

    A game that currently has a really good and detailed market system is EVE-Online. It's a space-based MMO that doesn't have server sharding. With peak concurrent connections of up to 17k and an (active) subscriber base of roughly 70k.

    The economy is primarily player controlled with blue prints, manufacturing, refining, mining, escrow player made missions, bounty hunting (yes, really), and of course...being a pirate and smuggling illegal goods. Trading is also another thing can affec
    • I love Eve, but there is no way it would even reach the complexity of real world financial markets.

      Eve doesn't even have decent capital markets: No loans, no trading in corporate stock. Corporations can TAX their members instead of giving out dividends.

      Even the marketplaces are separate and there is a game imposed barrier to trading in several markets simultaneously. Most of the trade goods have no function and as such trading in them is more or less a "mini-game" than a working commodities market.

      Eve

  • I'll be selling some of that Wall Street gold very soon ! Also a downloadable handy cheat guide!

  • This just in... Jack Thompson sues SUN! (Score:3, Funny)

    by kramthegram ( 918152 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @11:39AM (#13897478)
    CNN is reporting that Jack Thompson has recently discovered SUN makers of the popular MMO "Stock Market" have created a game wich had lead to many deaths. It seems players of this game have become so distraught after losing all their "Stock" the in game term for money that they have commited suicide. Also some other users become so addicted that they neglect family and friends. Jack Thompson is proceeding in a class action law suite funded by former Enron and Wordlcom executives. When reached for comment Mr. Thompson had this to say, "This game is an outrage! This is the worst threat to our moral society since the fiends at Penny Arcade!"

  • Not really about the stock market (Score:4, Insightful)

    by esampson ( 223745 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @12:10PM (#13897804) Homepage
    From reading the article it looks like what Sun is talking about is making a server solution to handle all the transactions that occur in your typical MMO. Transactions, in this case, doesn't simply mean the player economy, however. When a player moves the client tells the server the player has moved from point A to point B which is validated by the server. When the player kills a mob the game gives them XP. When a player chats the client sends a message to the server and then the server sends messages out to all clients close enough in VR space to 'hear' the player. These are all examples of transactions with the servers.

    The reason Sun talks about the stock market is because like an MMO the stock market has massive amounts of transactions that occur in real time. Unlike games, however, it's a lot more critical to get the transactions right. If you think duping can screw up a game imagine what it would do to the world economy, and I would imagine that it is simply unacceptable for the stock market servers to crash and have all the transactions for the past 15 minutes 'rolled back' when they reboot (for that matter it's probably unacceptable for the entire system to go down in the first place, so when a transaction server crashes other systems have to pick up without the end users ever knowing anything happened).

    As a result the transaction servers developed by Sun are leaps and bounds beyond what MMOs are using. Sun is saying it can bring that expertise to developers, saving them from the expense of coding their own, usually inferior, transaction servers.

    Of course a lot of this is me reading between the lines. It seems like the author of the article himself doesn't really grasp what it is that Sun is saying, but maybe the truth is that I am reading way too much into things.

  • So would farming consist of scouring the internet for the newest startups that have the most potential? Or going after other stockholders and killing them for drops? (hoping that they carry their stock portfolios on them at all times). :D hmmm a stack of 10 [CSCO] is on the AH for 500g

  • Sounds like fun for noobs (Score:3, Funny)

    by CrazyJim1 ( 809850 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @05:36PM (#13900675) Journal
    Hey, I just started, can someone give me some Berkshire shares, so I can power level my account?
  • I have no problem with that. I just need them to add a beginner mode with lots of free credits.

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