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Nintendo Businesses Entertainment Games

How The Revolution Will Change Games Forever 114

Posted by Zonk from the now-that-weird-controller-twitch-will-be-on-purpose dept.
1up.com has a lengthy article discussing the possible ways that Nintendo's next console will change the face of gaming. A nice pie-in-the-sky article for a quiet Holiday afternoon. From the article: "... We're sick of waiting, so we came up with a list of hypothetical Revolution game concepts -- some pulled directly from Nintendo's Tokyo Game Show video that showed actors but no real games, others pulled from some of the popular ideas we've heard floating around -- and took them to impartial third-party developers to find out how practical it is for games on Revolution to be more than just gimmicks. Over the next five pages, we talk with developers from Harmonix, Radical Entertainment, Foundation 9, Atlus, and Midway to figure out how many of these hypothetical game ideas that are floating around have the potential to become actual games, and what advantages/problems might come with that as a result of the Revolution's remote control-shaped, motion sensor controller."
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How The Revolution Will Change Games Forever

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  • "We stretch a three paragraph article to five pages!"

    • Re:The real scoop here... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by interiot ( 50685 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @04:23PM (#14108987) Homepage
      On the upside, it's stretched out with interview comments of actual people in the industry.

      On the downside, most of the interviewees are thinking "we don't want to tell you any of our remotely good ideas until we get them to market", so it's less useful than it could otherwise be.

      • Re:The real scoop here... (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        However, the fact that they have good ideas, remote or otherwise, and are in the process of actually bringing them to market is an upside to the interview :-)
    • some pulled directly from Nintendo's Tokyo Game Show video that showed actors but no real games, others pulled from some of our assesfloating around

      There, fixed the summary for ya!

  • Stop it, 1up! (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
    There's no point in slashvertising your site if it can never withstand a slashdotting. Seriously, I haven't gotten a single article of theirs that was advertised here to load. Ever.
    • The site is always up, it's just that since the move to 1up.com from gamers.com, the Ziff Davis site is so loaded with flash and useless widgets that it's not worth going to.
    • Really? I'm having no troubles loading it. With it being the middle of the afternoon on Turkey day*, I'm guessing Slashdot is not at its full destructive force.

      [*] before someone says anything, I KNOW not everyone lives in the USA, but enough /.'ers seem to that the effect should be weakened.
    • I am in Peru and I can get 1up just fine. lima 213.140.51.x miami 4.79.100.x atlanta 64.159.1.x ny 152.36.x.x and the last one i could see was 63.87.234.89, good luck
    • 1up has been one of the more reliable "slashdot-resistant" sites for me actually. Perhaps it is from where your connection in the world is from for that specific site.
    • I'va had the same problems with 1up. But only at work. It took me some time, to find out that it was only at work I had the problem. If I access the site at home or through a proxy, I never had any problems. I don't know why this site is a problem. I never had any problems like this with other sites.

  • Why Not? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by osopolar ( 826106 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @04:22PM (#14108983)
    PlayStation3 - does the same thing as my computer. Xbox 360 - does the same thing as my computer. Nintendo Revolution - Gives me the opportunity to get away from my desk and sit back on the couch or play games with some friends who are in the same room as myself(without breaking the bank.) I remember when I was teaching my Mom how to play Super Mario Brothers for the NES 12 years or so ago ... No Mom! Just push the buttons, violently jerking the controller up in the air will not make you jump any higher. Ahhhh, memories.
    • Ha those beautiful days. On my side she never actually got the touch and just quit it, and retouch a game only when she played Myst.

      On a another more serious note, you are right. while other console have all use the online mode for their multiplayer mode, it just shutdown gamer more and more in their room. On the other side, Nintendo just stayed in the side-by-side multiplayer mode. That just allow us to keep in touch with REAL human relationship.

    • Slight fanboy rant (Score:3, Insightful)

      by aztektum ( 170569 )
      Look at how crazy successful games like DDR are. My sister in high school saved money with friends so they could buy a nice DDR pad. They get a bunch of people together some weekends and create tournaments. Otherwise they don't play video games.

      If the Revolution (games) can deliver on creating that sort of experience even on a infrequent basis (not every game, but 3-4 a year), it could signal a shift in how some developers think.

      However there is still a huge demand for "traditional" games too, but the
    • Your PC plays blu-ray, and will have MGS4? Wow I've got to get me one of your computers... if you're running linux on your box I think I'm going to orgasm.
      • Think bigger. Can you make a better game with more storage? What good is blu-ray going to do for me after it looses to hd-dvd? Is MGS4 worth 400+ dollars for the console and 50+ dollars for the game? If you answered yes or who cares to any of these questions then you obviously need to buy a PS3. However if I buy a blu-ray drive for my pc (when it comes to market) and someone more talented at programming than I comes up with a linux based PS3 emulator - then the answer to your question is yes, please or
        • Is MGS4 worth 400+ dollars for the console and 50+ dollars for the game? Apparently you've never played an MGS game? Well then for one who is a fan the answer is a resounding yes. And I believe I will commence orgasming once there's a PS3 emulator for Linux. ;)
          • Well you got me on that one. I never owned a ps1 and as far as sequels are concerned I feel like I need to play MGS1 before playing MGS2 and so forth and therefore I never got around to it (kind of like trying to watch the TV series 24 from the second or third episode on.) Looks like my next eBay self Christmas gift will be MGS1 and fortunately thanks to the PS2 backward compatibility I will be able to start the series (only because you are so adamant about it.) As far as the orgasm goes ... ah, never mi
            • I played MGS2 without playing MGS1, there are a few things that are confusing, but the game still was completely awesome. MGS3 could also be played before the others, since it was a prequel. I loved MGS2, MGS3 and MGS: Twin Snakes, but I don't plan on buying a PS3 unless it comes out with something other than Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy to entice me.
            • Metal Gear Solid is the third game in the series actually. The first two were Metal Gear & Solid Snake for the MSX. They weren't released (at least properly) outside of Japan, but they have been translated by fans and can be played via emulation.
              • Well Solid Snake wasn't released, but Metal Gear certainly was, and was on every U.S. gamers definitive Top 10.
                • Thus the properly bit; the NES version isn't the same game as the MSX version, any more then Dracula X - Chi no Rondo (PC-Engine) and Castlevania - Dracula X (SNES) are the same game; though the difference in quality in the case of the Metal Gear versions isn't nearly so extreme as in that example, being that both the MSX and NES versions are good games.
      • My PC plays MGS1 and MGS2:Substance, both in very high resolution and with added content that was not present in the original versions.
        MGS3:Subsistance will be released soon, I believe for PC aswell.

        My PC will have Blu-Ray / HD-DVD when they are established media.
    • Just one thought that had come to my mind:

      I am eagerly waiting for the Revolution. See, I am a poor student from a underdeveloped country (Mexico). I bought the Xbox some years ago, but I had to sell it as I moved to UK to make a PhD.

      I may not be able to buy the Revolution, but I am waiting for the controller. As a programmer (with some game projects) I would love to use this new control in some my games. Just to see how it works. I am sure it wont take long for a driver/convertor Revolution2USB to appear.
  • I hope this huge risk will not be as popular as their other new tech they tried some years ago with the Virtual Boy. At this time they have little competition and could afford to loose royally with one consol, but if the revolution doesn't established itself when it goes out, we can count Nintendo as the same league as Sega.

    • Re:VBoy (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You know, I love it when people point to Virtual Boy as "thier other new tech".

      Look at a PS2 or X-box controller.

      D-pad. Shoulder buttons (hell, even the pattern of the four face buttons). Analog stick. Rumble. 1st Party Wireless.

      What companies controllers do you think all of those things appeared on first?
      • never said nintendo never had other new tech, but the Virtual boy is the one I wanted to point, since I was talking of a failure. Hell Nintendo always have brought new technologie or new patern, but before if a new tech wasn't really working it wasn't doing them much damage, they had few competition and was leading way ahead Sega and even PS at the begining. Nowaday, Sony is leading, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't far behind. Nintendo cannot really afford too loose too much terrain

        • Re:VBoy (Score:3, Insightful)

          by NanoGator ( 522640 )
          "Nowaday, Sony is leading, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't far behind. Nintendo cannot really afford too loose too much terrain"

          Considering their profitability, Nintendo has more leg room than the other two.
          • >Considering their profitability, Nintendo has more leg room than the other two.
            >

            That may be true if Sony and Microsoft were both only in the game biz. Both companies can and, from the looks of it, will spend billions to own a part of your livingroom. Nintendo wants to sell you games, Microsoft/Sony wants your eyes.

            That said, I think Nintendo will stay around for a while longer. :)

        • Re:VBoy (Score:2, Insightful)

          by mj_sklar ( 888539 )
          Why is it that every time I see an article about Nintendo's future, the Virtual Boy is mentioned, and someone throws out the argument "They failed with that, so they can fail with this too!". Yeah, they failed on one system, they failed badly. But look at all their other successes.

          Microsoft failed with Windows, but everyone's flocking to the X-box and the X-box360, right? ;)

          But seriously, think about it. One failed technology does not mean all new technologies will fail. With that attitude, the world will n
    • The difference is that the Virtual boy was limited to 3d only experiences. The Revolution will have a much broader scope. The success of Nintendo as with all consoles will depend on sales. And sales depend on great games being programmed! I look forward to a different level of game play in my home. Did you ever play Rampart with a trackball! Revolutionary!!!!!

    • Re:VBoy (Score:5, Interesting)

      by justchris ( 802302 ) on Friday November 25, 2005 @12:28AM (#14111010) Homepage
      Actually, if you look at Nintendo's traditional approach to console/controller design, it's easy to see why the virtual boy failed.


      If you can find them, try to read some interviews with Shigeru Miyamoto from when the N64 and the GCN were first coming out.


      Basically, what Nintendo has always done was this. Someone at Nintendo (most often Miyamoto-san) said, "I have this really great idea for a game! But the controller everyone is using won't work for it."


      And Nintendo goes..., "Well, what kind of controller do you need?"


      And Nintendo R&D goes to work. They get a prototype controller, they make their game, and the game designer says, "It still doesn't work right. You need to do this, this and this." And R&D goes back and makes the changes that the game designer suggested.


      Throughout Nintendo's history, their controllers have been influenced not by R&D or management or marketing but by what the game designers need to make the games. They went to a dpad when everyone else was using joysticks, because they had a game that wouldn't work right with a joystick. They added more buttons, and especially shoulder buttons when they made the SNES because there was a game that needed the extra buttons, and having more than 4 buttons accessed by the right thumb proved to be uncomfortable and complicated, so they found a better place to put the extra buttons. Remember the N64 controller, and how bizarre it looked when your first saw it? The reason it was designed that way was specifically because of Super Mario 64. At the time, there simply didn't exist a controller that could play this game Miyamoto had been working on, their flagship title, so they made a controller that had the new features he needed, analog control, camera buttons for camera control, and easy access to thumb and forefinger buttons, but they added the 3rd prong so as not to give up dpad control, since there were still many games that worked better with a dpad than with analog.


      It was Miyamoto's decision to change the button shape and design on the GCN controller as well. He wanted games to be more intuitive, he was working on Pikmin at the time, and he wanted a few things on the controller changed so the game would work better.


      Now, conversely, the VBoy was designed to do 3D, but they designed and built the unit first, and then designed the games later. The only other time in Nintendo history they've done such a thing is with the Nintendo DS (I say this only because I've not heard anyone at Nintendo say they had a particular game in mind when they created the DS, but I could believe that Kirby Canvas Curse inspired the creation of the system), but they worked on enough game ideas for it, before releasing it, that they didn't run into the same problem as they did with the VBoy, which was that it wasn't really comfortable or fun (another reason I can believe they took an R&D before Game Design approach with the DS is that it's nto really comfortable to play in a game that requires quick access to all the buttons).


      So while I can't say the controller will be an unqualified success, I'm optimistic because, the way everyone at Nintendo is all smiles whenever they talk about the controller, I suspect we'll learn soon that they had a game idea they were kicking around for a while, but which they simply couldn't make with the existing control scheme and voila (too lazy to find the accented i) you have the Revmote. (Which actually may be why Mario 128, which was announced years ago for the GCN, never came into existence, and is now being mentioned as being a game for the Rev.)

  • Comments (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Thursday November 24, 2005 @04:56PM (#14109147) Homepage
    It looks like this is slashdotted, but I read it this morning.

    The first one is talking about using the controller as a baton for a music game. They talk to the guys at Harmonix (very cool company, they just released the AMAZING Guitar Hero). While the guy didn't seem to know it, the game Mad Maestro for the PS2 could be played this way with a baton controller (which I don't think was released in the US, only Japan got the controller). It was actually supposed to be a good game. Still you could easily use a pair of controllers to play onscreen drums, I think that would work great.

    They mention using the controller as a sword or lightsaber. I agree with the mention that this would be problematic because there is no "feel" to it. While you can make it rumble, I don't think that will be enough. You swing your sword and your opponent blocks you. But your controller keeps going (maybe with a rumbling). I think that would be a problem.

    They talk to the guy behind Trauma Center for the DS. While it is an interesting idea, I agree that the surgery wouldn't work as well as on the DS because you aren't touching a screen like with the DS. But the idea of using the controller in other parts of the game for diagnosis (otoscope, test reflexes, etc.) sounds very interesting. I like the idea he suggests about hooking up a DS for the surgery part and using the revolution controller for the rest.

    That's all I can remember right now. I'll post back with more if I think of it and I think it's worth it.

    I can't wait for the revolution. I don't know about its graphics. I don't know of a single game for it (they have confirmed various sequels and such but we've never seen anything about them). But I as still far more excited by it than anything else. Between the unique controller and Nintendo continuing to push against "more of the same", I can't wait. When they do something, they tend to do it right.

    I hear a full 45% of Mario Kart DS owners are playing online. They may have waited to do it, but it sounds like they knew what they were doing. I haven't picked up the game yet (I intend to), but it looks great. The only thing I wish is I hear the online races are only four players. It would be nice if it was 8 (even if each DS supplied one computer player). But that is a minor gripe.

    • Re:Comments (Score:2, Informative)

      by Evangelion ( 2145 )
      I hear a full 45% of Mario Kart DS owners are playing online. They may have waited to do it, but it sounds like they knew what they were doing. I haven't picked up the game yet (I intend to), but it looks great. The only thing I wish is I hear the online races are only four players. It would be nice if it was 8 (even if each DS supplied one computer player). But that is a minor gripe.

      You do have to keep in mind that bandwidth and lag considerations are present, especially with wireless. If the percentage o
      • I kinda figured that was the problem. I seem to remember reading you can do 8 player if everyone is in the same room, which would point to latency issues.
      • There's another consideration with multiplayer games: matchups. I'm not certain why it takes so long to find a match online-- I suspect it has to do with finding groups of people with acceptable latencies to one another. I haven't gone to the trouble of sniffing the network for connections yet, but I've heard that everyone connects directly to one another, meaning that there are several latencies and synchronization is going to be a bigger bitch as that max latency rises.

        Given this footwork of guessing, ima

    • Re:Comments (Score:3, Interesting)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 )
      "I haven't picked up the game yet (I intend to), but it looks great. The only thing I wish is I hear the online races are only four players. It would be nice if it was 8 (even if each DS supplied one computer player). But that is a minor gripe."

      Internet play on Mario Kart is a little disappointing. Yes, you only get four players. Yes, you cannot chat with them. Yes, it can take a while to connect. Yes, you cannot play the battle mode on the net. (GRR.)

      That said, it's still quite fun. Though the CPU pl

      • Re:Comments (Score:2, Informative)

        by Evangelion ( 2145 )
        After having this for a few days, I find it rather sad that it took this long to get Mario Kart on-line.

        Mario Kart Double Dash has been playable online via Warp Pipe [warppipe.com]'s tunnelling software for years now. True, it's no longer supported by them, but it still works and there's a community of players around it and the two other GC LAN games.

  • Nintendo (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sv-Manowar ( 772313 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @05:00PM (#14109162) Homepage Journal
    From the view of a pretty avid gamer, with many friends who also game, it seems like Nintendo are focusing on a completely different market. To many people now, if you want a console that is fun for yourself.. you go Microsoft or Sony... if you want a console that is fun for when you have your friend's round, you go for Nintendo. Many people can't play a lot of Mario Kart on their own as it gets boring, but if you have many people playing with you, it is truckloads of fun. Nintendo just need to realise that not everyone always has lots of friends to play their consoles with.

    • Friends (Score:2, Insightful)

      by osopolar ( 826106 )
      Perhaps the people who play video games just need more friends(in real time or in real life.) I have to admit that after I saw the propaganda video from Nintendo I have more of a desire to get my hands on one. Remember the old Nintendo Commercials - they showed kids walking around as if they were in the game environments or sometimes they ran into an exploding Nintendo Entertainment System Kiosk http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/50/ [retrojunk.com] . I must agree with the idea that Nintendo is more for friends
    • I think that Nintendo actually realizes the opposite of what you're looking for. The reality is that a growing number and proportion of gamers do always have lots of people to play their consoles with. You see, most people live in families, and many of the people who grew up on the NES back in the day are becoming parents nowadays. There's a lot more options now that the adults in the family are already comfortable with video games.

      Nintendo does understand the concept of the hardcore gamer, sitting in the b

  • It's new, not change. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by vhold ( 175219 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @05:14PM (#14109229)
    Nintendo's entire point with vastly simplifying the control over the other current generation offerings isn't to 'change games forever', it's to create a new market away from what most people currently consider video games to be.

    They are trying to make Xbox360/PS3 vs Revolution an irrelevant argument by creating something for people that can't even fathom playing Xbox360 and PS3. Once they start marketting it heavily, it'll probably be mostly about showing grandmas playing with their grandchildren and any other 'fish-out-of-water' type imagery they can come up with that tries to change peoples' notions of who a video gamer is.

    Even if it does become possible for grandma to play video games, I can't quite fathom how nintendo is going to convince grandma that she wants to. I guess that lies entirely in what games are made. It's already been shown that grandma will play internet card games if she can manage basic internet usage, I imagine Nintendo could muster up an easier to use version of that, but will they?

    • Re:It's new, not change. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by cowscows ( 103644 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @11:24PM (#14110732) Journal
      Well, I think my grandma is pretty much an impossible target for a video game maker. My mom, however, might end up being a grandma in not all that many years. And she already got a gamecube to play donkey konga. If you take a bigger picture look at where the gamer demographics are going, Nintendo's strategy makes a lot more sense. I'm only 25 but I have a lot less time to invest in video games than I used to. Many of my friends don't really play them anymore, because they don't have the free time to sink into most games. But when people come over to my house, we usually end up in front of the gamecube for at least an hour or so, playing all the goofy party games, 4+ of us at a time, passing the controllers around frequently so everyone gets a turn. The majority of the time I spend playing games is multiplayer stuff.

      Making games "simpler" is only one of the important things that Nintendo does. The more important one, in my opinion, is them trying to make gaming more social. Xbox live is cool and all, but I'll have more fun playing mario baseball with 3 friends all in front of the same TV than I will playing Halo with those same 3 people over the internet.

      What the game industry has generally considered the "mature" market has consisted of late teens-mid twenties males. But those ages are really just still kids. The true mature market consists of adults, most of which have limited free time, and most of which have houses full of families and such. I just think there's so much potential for games that realize that. Games which don't require me to sit on the couch and tune out everything else for hours at a time. Because, you know what? It's really hard for me to do that. And it's that way for the majority of adults as well.
    • My girlfriend's grandmom loves to play Tetris, Dr. Mario, and various other puzzle games. She's had an NES and an SNES, along with a handful of games for each of them. And she is currently in her mid-70s. I think it is entirely possible to market to grandmas, as long as the game is right.

      Look at it this way: some (read: old) people love to gamble. Even if they're not going to win money, back with the SNES they had a handful of casino games they could choose from. And for the people who aren't really close t
    • But you also need to realize that "grandma" today was for the first time alive during the videogame era and most likely owned or at least played an Atari/Intellivision. The old stereotypical grandma doesn't fit now. I know I'm 25, my mother is in her early 50's, and she has grandchildren that are 8 yrs. old. The entire family could enjoy the Revolution with no problem. This is not far fetched. I gurantee my mom (a grandma) could kick your ass in a round or two of "Warlords" in all my years I may have won a
  • Gravity gun. We can only hope that Valve are drooling over the possibilities as much as the rest of us.
  • Theres been lots said about the fact you'll be able to download and play old Nintendo games but has anything been shown of the new games that'll be availible for the system yet?
  • Sorry guys, but I think Nintendo (and its fans) are overreacting quite a bit about its controller. 3 reasons

    1.-Even if all the ways of gameplay shown in the revolution trailer worked (most of them are just theories) it will still be tiresome trial and error before developers would (if ever) get those right and make them fun as well, meanwhile they will feel and play like experiments.

    2.-ITS JUST A CONTROLLER, how difficult is it for a peripheral like this to be made for the PC, the PS2 or the xbox? legally a
    • 1.-Even if all the ways of gameplay shown in the revolution trailer worked (most of them are just theories) it will still be tiresome trial and error before developers would (if ever) get those right and make them fun as well, meanwhile they will feel and play like experiments.

      This is coming from the company that either invented or contributed something substantial to every single genre currently in existance. They perfected the 3D platformer formula for example. If any company can pull off a control chan

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