The ESRB Gets An 'F' 641
GamePolitics reports on a failing grade given to the ESRB by the National Institute on Media and the Family. The report card did not look good for the ratings board, which almost immediately fired back at the organization. From that article: "The reality is that publishers understand that retailers largely choose not to stock AO-rated games, and so in the interests of producing marketable games, publishers will oftentimes revise and resubmit a game that was initially assigned an AO by raters in an effort to produce an M-rated game. When this happens, the process starts again from the beginning, and each new version of a game is reviewed independently. The call to issue more AO ratings has little to do with rating accuracy, and more to do with NIMF's real agenda, which is to destroy the commercial viability of games it deems objectionable. Unlike NIMF, ESRB's job is to be a neutral rater, not a censor."
Sheesh! (Score:4, Funny)
ESRB: You suck more!
NIMF: Your mother wears army boots!
ESRB: Your sister swims after troop ships!
Does any adult really give a flying fig? Oh wait, the Slashdot demographic is... never mind.
Re:Sheesh! (Score:2)
Dunno about adults, but apparently you cared enough to read the summary (and possibly the articles too), and comment on it, taking a cheap potshot at Slashdot readers while you did.
Little Pot, meet Kid Kettle :).
Re:Sheesh! (Score:2, Insightful)
I laugh at these people. If they only knew what kind of porn their kids were looking at when their not around.
Bunch of dumbasses.
Speaking of which:
so tightenning the standards means more censored games for people of all ages.
It's only censorship when the government does it. When the market does it, it's called "developing a salable
Three ways that the government does it (Score:3, Interesting)
It's only censorship when the government does it.
When
then "the government does it". Now what point are you going to make in order to avoid the term "censorship"?
Re:Sheesh! (Score:4, Interesting)
FTFA: To illustrate the degree to which video games have become more violent, more sexual, and more crude we compared six M-rated games representative of those featured in report cards during the late 1990s to six M-rated games from 2004.
With such a large sample size, I can see how they have conclusive proof that the ESRB is not doing their job.
Re:Sheesh! (Score:3, Insightful)
So you're saying they're right -there are games out there rated M that should be AO? Is so, where's the problem?
Seriously, the 1st post has it right. Two competing entities each saying they're better than the other. Two companies providing information on which parents can make informed decisions. That's a good thing. What's the problem?
factually correct, but bad conclusion (Score:5, Insightful)
But the conclusion they are drawing is incorrect. M rated games aren't supposed to be sold to young children anyway. So the fact that these games are even more inappropriate is moot. It's like that old expression, "the food is bad and the portions are small."
Re:Sheesh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider that Eyes Wide Shut got rated R for sex. Meanwhile, GTA:SA, with one little sex scene, got effectively rated NC-17 (and thus unviable in stores) for sex.
The game industry could loosen their standards and still be further than the movie industry. It's just that grumpy old people like movies better than games.
If any government-driven media rating should go on, it would have to be across-the-board to be fair. Everything from comics to TV shows. Otherwise, it gives competing businesses an advantage. You think that comics and games and movies don't all compete with each other for kids' eyeballs?
Re:Sheesh! (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this any different from directors re-editing violent or sexually-explicit movies to avoid the NC-17 rating?
"AO" is understood to mean "pr0n" and therefore most retail outlets will refuse to carry any game with an AO stamped on it.
You can't reach the adult market, let alone the all-important teen market, if your games are "behind the beaded curain" along with the hentai cartoons and Penhouse videos. In the eyes of most consumers, including those who don't mind the sex and/or violence, it's as if the game doesn't even exist unless you can find it at Best Buy and Wal-Mart.
So of course a game which is fated to wear the Scarlet AO is going to be re-edited and re-submitted in hopes of being accepted as an "M" game. Designers would otherwise stand to lose millions of dollars over this.
Re:Sheesh! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sheesh! (Score:3, Insightful)
What do you want to bet that such a game would be AO?
Oh, and as an aside: the NIMF does not publicize who funds them. For all anyone knows, they're funded by the DVD industry who wants to main the game indust
Re:Sheesh! (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed, and you even forg
I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Interesting)
[open rant]
These ratings are no replacement for parenting. Instead of wasting time complaining, work a few more hours a week and donate the money to your church marketing fund.
Stop trying to make non-Christians become like you by using the force of government or nanny groups. Instead, work within your group of Christians to help keep those kids moral and loved and ethical. Christian kids are the worst because their parents are blind to reality.
I hate my label as I'd never tell a non-Christian to stop swearing or stop drinking or stop screwing around or stop watching porn. I'd never use government or a nanny group to further a Christian agenda.
My job as the Bible mandates is to enforce responsibility in my brothers and sisters in Christ, and be a model for non-believers. I can not control a non-believer and using Caesar to do so is wrong.
Your job as a parent is to be involved 100% in your child's life. If you want a good Christian child, be a good Christian parent. Try to live sin free, and stop forcing your child to be perfect if you are not perfect yourself.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Informative)
me=athiest, and tired of having my rights trampled
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Informative)
There are many Christians like us. (Score:5, Insightful)
I am a Christian. I believe in God. I also read fantasy novels, play D&D, and even play some violent video games. I am also an adult.
I do not press my views on other people, yet I do not hide what I believe when asked.
I can't scare people into heaven, but I can tell them that I have a close relationship with God. Nor do I claim to know everything, or have a perfect understanding of God and religion.
My beliefs are personal, between myself and God. I will let other people develop (or not) the same relationship. I just know it works for me.
Re:There are many Christians like us. (Score:5, Funny)
Clippy tells me there is a "sentence agreement problem" whatever that means...
Re:There are many Christians like us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Living a lifestyle where people know that you're a Christian but that God saves even the most imperfect is sometimes the strongest witness you can give anyone.
I once had a girl tell me, "You're Christian? But you cuss!" I'm just like, "Uh... yeah... what about being a Christian says that I'm perfect... my religious beliefs in fact tell me I'm not."
Re:There are many Christians like us. (Score:5, Insightful)
Bart: I think I'll go for the life of sin, followed by a presto-change-o deathbed repentance.
Faith: Wow, that's a good angle. [contemplates for a second] But that's not God's angle. Why not spend your life helping people instead. Then you're also covered in case of sudden death.
Bart: Full coverage? Hmmm.
My angle is that if God is reasonable, he will understand why I cannot force myself to believe trumped-up bullshit. And if he's not reasonable, then we are all fucked.
(Then there's the 99.3% chance that consciousness is just an illusion and there is nothing after we die and the 1.0-1e-37% chance that even if there is a supreme being, he is nothing like anything described in any particular religious canon.)
Re:There are many Christians like us. (Score:3, Interesting)
Our brains control our perception of time (which is another way of saying that, ultimately, we control our perception of time). How do you know that the "afterlife" isn't the creation of the consciousness that is aware that its support system is shutting down? Would our
Re:There are many Christians like us. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Insightful)
There are, but most of us are adults with kids to raise, jobs to do, and (hopefully) fun lives to lead, just like anyone else. That means we generally don't have the time, energy, or commitment to raise a high, holy stink every time the world acts upon its free will, so we don't get a whole lot of media attention.
As a Christian, there are more opportunities to make positive, constructive differences in my life and the lives of my friends, family, and local communi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Insightful)
I suggest, as a Christian, that you follow God's 10 commandments rather than your invented list of 10 commandments which talk about taxation and zoning laws.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Informative)
1. Serve God first (not the flag, not your boss, not the IRS, not your family)
And then we have Luke 10:27. "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself". God and yo
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Funny)
I don't mind standing up for those who cannot, but somehow this has become perverted into "defending the stupid from themselves".
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is not on
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:2)
I agree with the poster above me. The Christian religion needs more Christians like you.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:2)
Maybe Christians are tired of seeing the proliferation of these things throughout society, because they see them as harmful to people whether they are Christian or not.
Maybe if more Christians took more of a stand and told people to stop swearing, drinking, screwing around or watching porn the society at lar
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:2)
Then they started picking up Gentiles, and even Jewish Christians started picking up eating non-kosher foods.
I believe the essense of it says that you may feel that it's fine for you to eat non-kosher foods, but when you're in the house of a family that has remained kosher that you should follow the kosher rules in order to not tempt them, because they feel th
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Informative)
The part you are referring to can be found in the Old Testament in the Book of Leviticus, Chapter 11. One of those infamous chapters that people try to use to prove the bible contains flaws... after all, what rabbit chews it's cud?
1 And Jehovah proceeded to speak to Moses and Aaron, saying to them: 2 "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'This is the living creature that YOU may eat of all the beasts that are upon the earth: 3 Every
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sucks to be them - what hey see as harmful and what IS harmful are two completely different things
Maybe if more Christians took more of a stand and told people to stop swearing, drinking, screwing around or watching porn the society at large would be more courteous, have less drunk drivers, and broken marriages.
Christianity, especially not fundamentalist christianity, is not the answer to this.
First and foremost you have to prove swearing is harmful - a swear word is just a word, you choose to take offense. Now words can be used in a way that is intended to be harmful - but i can intend to insult you by calling you a "feces eating dog fornicator" without ever swearing.
The very concept of "swear words" is anathemic to free thought
No sexual relationships before marriage is equally unhealthy as too many - just unhealthy in different ways - and no sexual relationship with the person you are going to marry before you marry them can, and does, cause divorces
Drunk driving is unlawful, against even relativistic morals, etc - you don't need religion to say drunk driving is bad- and religion doesn't ameloriate the rate of alcoholism.
Broken marriages now.. that's something really ironic for a fundamentalist to preach about. It has been shown that the divorce rate among the most fundamentalist christians is TWICE that of the divorce rate among atheists and agnostics - and that the divorce rate between the two is pretty much linearaly related to the level of fundamentalism the couple is involved in. A nice example of this is Rush Limbaugh, or my fiancee's biological father is another good example of this.
Sure, anybody can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean that their activities don't end up hurting other people directly or indirectly, Christian or not.
Yep my looking at porn (alone and with my fiancee), farking my fiancee (and only two other girls ever before her), and swearing are really harming you!
oh the humanity!
PS: not all porn is tasteful, stuff that is really degrading to women is not only NOT HOT, but is pretty disgusting
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe I feel that their agenda is responsible for an increase in sexually transmitted diseases, due to their utter refusal to consider educating children about sex.
Maybe I feel that their beliefs are responsible for failures in education which are causing the united states to lose its edge in the global information economy, due to their insistence that science has to conform to their religious dogma.
Maybe I see their beliefs as the root cause
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:4, Insightful)
If more Christians "practiced what they preach", plain old market forces would instantly result in the nonavailability of these products.
At least in the US, we have somewhere between a 78 and 90% Christian population (according to the last two census). If 90% of people refused to support content that included violence, sex, profanity, blasphemy, science, drugs, firearms, toilet paper, or whatever peeve-of-the-week you want to claim makes the baby Jesus cry, then such content would vanish overnight.
"Why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
Maybe Christians are tired of seeing the proliferation of these things throughout society, because they see them as harmful to people whether they are Christian or not.
If I want to "harm" myself by pretending to blast aliens with my demonic powers while scantily clad CG cheerleaders talk dirty to me, you don't have any say in that.
Deal.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you have a child, and he gets into a bottle of your pills and kills himself, is it:
A) The childs fault, for not knowing better
B) Your fault, for being careless
C) The pharmaceutical companies fault, for making the pill in the first place
D) The pharmacys fault, for making the pill bottle openable
E) A & B
F) C & D
The right answer is clearly 'B', but it seems like 'F' is the only popular option these days. It's got to be someone's fault, and obviously it couldn't be the parents fault, are you MAD?
Makes me sick. Not to bring up the Bush Corolary of Godwin's Law, but take 9/11. 1 day to happen, 5 years of finger pointing to follow. Why? We can't just say, "Okay, we all screwed up, let's learn something and move on." No no no, we've got to find out exactly whose fault it was that we didn't see it coming, so we can, I don't know, set them on fire or something.
It's getting hard to even blame the government for refusing to take responsibility. Jesus, look what we did to the tobacco companies! I missed the bit where they held people down and made them smoke, but it clearly happened at some point.
We've gotta stop the finger pointing, and man up to some responsiblity. It's freaking absurd.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:2)
Stop watching TV and reading the newspaper for a while and you will stop having such a warped perspective on reality. By warped, I mean the falacy of thinking that
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Insightful)
A) The childs fault, for not knowing better
B) Your fault, for being careless
C) The pharmaceutical companies fault, for making the pill in the first place
D) The pharmacys fault, for making the pill bottle openable
E) A & B
F) C & D
The right answer is clearly 'B',
No, the right answer is B & D, if in fact the pill was potentially harmful but not in a child proof bottle.
Personal responsibility is great, as long as it doesn't involve absolving others of their responsibilities in the process. Perfect e
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think what so many of these religion-backed groups are missing (in the case of Christianity) is that God does not want people to enforce their will on others in order to make them moral and ethical people. Instead, God wants people to talk to one another and share the benefits of a moral and ethical life - lead by example, not by leash. God does not want societal laws to mandate morality and ethics in people who do not want to adhere to them. God wants people to appreciate the results of those morals and ethics, and make their own decision to live that life.
To take this point to the extreme, we don't have laws against murder because it is an immoral action, or because the founding fathers were religious and believed this one little religious law would fit fine in our laws
The same goes for many other laws that have existed for a long time - they exist because society as we know it could not survive without them, not because the government has mandated morality and ethics. However, many people dont see this (such as NIMF), and they are wrongly trying to mandate morality and ethics through law.
Re:I "hate" Christians... (Score:3, Insightful)
I just want to thank you for starting this thread. In it's responses, I'm finding there are a lot more Christians just like me, and I'm adding them (and you) to my "friends" list.
It's refreshing to see others in my faith who are not intent on converting the world by force. Jesus said to spread the good word, not
Why is it so difficult... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parents should have the right to determine for themselves whether or not a game is appropriate for their child rather than worrying that the little tyke is at the store buying an M-rated title behind their backs.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
Movie theaters card kids for R-rated movies, why is this so hard?
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are a parent, become more active in your child's life. If they want to buy games that are rated as too violent or suggestive or whatever for them, get involved. Tell them why this is the case. Make sure that they understan
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:3, Interesting)
In many places this is policy. Where have you seen that it isn't?
(Of course, not all of my co-workers would card everyone. They'd let you slide if you looked old enough. But everyone carded anyone
liability, costs, legality (Score:2)
Because it's not a retail store's responsibility to raise your kids. And such stores could face lawsuits, for either denying someone a purchase, or for accidentally selling a game to an underage kid. Once the retailer takes action on this, they are also responsible for any outcomes. If they don't do anything, they are not liable. And it costs money to enforce rules and check IDs.
This is not like alcohol and tobacco, where there are actual laws that stor
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
What is the kid doing at the store without you, if you're so afraid of the video games he's playing? Why is he playing games at home that you haven't ever looked at?
Try raising your own kids instead of getting the rest of us to do the job for you.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
Um, do the do that for DVDs ? If yes, then you have a point. If no, then you're asking to hold games to a higher standard, and I'm going to ask why.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
1) Enlist a friend to buy it for you.
2) Get it on EBay/Amazon/EBGames (if I paid my parents back, they would let me use their credit card)
3) Illegal copies, either stolen physically or pirated off the Net (computer games)
4) Lawn/Garage Sale or Pawn Shop, where employees wouldn't know to check IDs.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
If they are stealing money, then I think buying adult video games is probably the least of their problems. You know, kids can steal video games in stores that check ID, too. So I guess we should outlaw stores completely, so our kids can be 100% protected from reality at all times.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
Could also be that he doesn't want to force people to show their ID when making purchases. But if you gave that option, you wouldn't have been able to ask "have you stopped beating your wife yet" -style question, now would you ?
Why would they, when they can just download the game from the Internet ? After all, stealing is wrong.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:5, Insightful)
As a retailer, it is your job to provide the appropriate products to the appropriate customers. You attitude basically states that you would sell tobacco, alcohol, and firearms to anyone with the money to buy them. Nobody asked you to "parent" anyone. Apparently reading a piece of plastic is just too hard for some.
It will only become a matter of time before there are some sort of standards mandated by either law or the policy of a <gasp> retailer that will set the bar. Just because Johnny smokes, is fifteen, and his mother buys him cigarettes - it doesn't mean that the people don't care. If the retailer was cutting out the middleman by selling directly to Johnny, it wouldn't matter, would it? (By the way, that was a rhetorical question...)
What will turn this all around is when the parents of some seven year old sue the ass off of someone like you for gross negligence by selling them explicit adult content in the form of a game.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:5, Insightful)
Free market rule: two parties in an exchange will only exchange if both parties profit.
It is my job to sell my customer what they want at a price they're happy to pay. Laws adding responsibilities to either party only criminalize non-violent voluntary actions and create black markets.
You attitude basically states that you would sell tobacco, alcohol, and firearms to anyone with the money to buy them.
I would.
If a person wants the item, they will get it. A 13 year old wanting the above was raised wrong. My old gun club had 20 members under 13. Kids smoke, drink and do drugs creating a black market. If parents knew their kids could legally buy the product, maybe they'd spend more time parenting.
What will turn this all around is when the parents of some seven year old sue the ass off of someone like you for gross negligence by selling them explicit adult content in the form of a game.
They could because the lawyers destroyed personal responsibility.
I believe a 13 year old who isn't accountable to their parents for every dollar and hour is an adult. I don't care what your age is once you become a major. Your parents gave up too soon.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
If I owned a retail store, I would start doing it now, then market it to get the trust of parents.
"Don't you dare force me to parent anyone."
There is a difference between crading someone and being there parent. Kids aren't allowed in Bars, Adult theaters, to buy booze, etc...
The games produced to day, aren't even close t
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:5, Insightful)
I also really don't understand what is so special about game retailing that makes it special vs. existing underage restrictions on porn, booze, tobacco and R movies.
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm an adult. I want retailers to sell me games, and I want the political pressure off of games that some might find problematic, but which are certainly not as bad for societ as alcohol is. Hopefully clear/upfront/accurate disclosure of game content, combined with effective carding of kids, will make that happen
Re:Why is it so difficult... (Score:2)
What makes you think most parents give a shit? Come on, they are just games. With no sharp edges or easy-to-swallow pieces, either. The thing is, the people complaining here are not normal parents. They are professional whiners and prudes. They basically don't want anyone having fun. I think kids would be more traumatized by the "clean" indoctrinal media that members of the National Institute on Media and Family wo
Re:It isnt difficult... (Score:2)
These people try and drive the point of "interactivity" with the violence to be the reason that justifies why violent video games are so much more worse than violent movies that it deserves to be a criminal offense.
Should these companies be carding? Yeah, they should. But they shouldn't be held at knife point to do it.
Easy way to address the problem now... (Score:4, Funny)
National Institute on Media and the Family (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:National Institute on Media and the Family (Score:2)
Re:National Institute on Media and the Family (Score:2)
Holy Crap.
Holy Crap. Holy Crap.
Speechless.
Re:National Institute on Media and the Family (Score:2)
Re:National Institute on Media and the Family (Score:3, Funny)
I think NIMF was just the sort of organization the founders wanted to protect us from when they forged the 1st amendment in the fabled city of Philadelphia. If you encounter a NIMF in a dark alley or shadowy forest, hold the constitution aloft in front of you and shout "get ye behind me Satan!" or something of that nature. They have no defense against this weapon.
Good in a way (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good in a way (Score:2)
For now... Pending the outcome of the 2006 Congressional elections, and the 2008 Presidential election.
Re:Good in a way (Score:2)
The thing that makes video game regulation so different is that (unlike other polarizing issues such as abortion) the issue hasn't yet been classified as "Democratic" or "Republican" and is regarded as "relatively harmless" (unlike, say, abortion which has much heavier consequences and "real life" impact) and there is evidently a political "right side" (few politicians or people outside of gaming seem to have much interest in defending
Mediawise in general (Score:4, Interesting)
"There's only one way to really know what video games your kids are playing
Be MediaWise®.
Watch what your kids watch. "
I don't understand... common sense?
Also, Mediawise's parent organiztion is the one that took extra pains to distance themselves from Jack, for the tactics he uses.
ESRB's job is not to be a censor? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:ESRB's job is not to be a censor? (Score:2)
This is no worse the a book reviewer saying the the Jaws book should be rated 'R' for sexual situation. It is differnt then saying "This book has sex in it, so remove it from the shelves."
Re:ESRB's job is not to be a censor? (Score:4, Funny)
PRODUCing a wOrD Using CharacTers Belonging to their name is bY no means PROof that it is relateD to their Usual ConducT.
Besides, plEaSuRaBle also works.
Interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
What are the odds?
A better name perhaps? (Score:5, Funny)
Why a generic rating (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why a generic rating (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why a generic rating (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why a generic rating (Score:4, Informative)
* Alcohol Reference - Reference to and/or images of alcoholic beverages
* Animated Blood - Discolored and/or unrealistic depictions of blood
* Blood - Depictions of blood
* Blood and Gore - Depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts
* Cartoon Violence - Violent actions involving cartoon-like situations and characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted
* Comic Mischief - Depictions or dialogue involving slapstick or suggestive humor
* Crude Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving vulgar antics, including "bathroom" humor
* Drug Reference - Reference to and/or images of illegal drugs
* Edutainment - Content of product provides user with specific skills development or reinforcement learning within an entertainment setting. Skill development is an integral part of product
* Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life
* Informational - Overall content of product contains data, facts, resource information, reference materials or instructional text
* Intense Violence - Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons, and depictions of human injury and death
* Language - Mild to moderate use of profanity
* Lyrics - Mild references to profanity, sexuality, violence, alcohol, or drug use in music
* Mature Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving "adult" humor, including sexual references
* Mild Violence - Mild scenes depicting characters in unsafe and/or violent situations
* Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
* Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
* Real Gambling - Player can gamble, including betting or wagering real cash or currency
* Sexual Themes - Mild to moderate sexual references and/or depictions. May include partial nudity
* Sexual Violence - Depictions of rape or other sexual acts
* Simulated Gambling - Player can gamble without betting or wagering real cash or currency
* Some Adult Assistance May Be Needed - Intended for very young ages
* Strong Language - Explicit and/or frequent use of profanity
* Strong Lyrics - Explicit and/or frequent references to profanity, sex, violence, alcohol, or drug use in music
* Strong Sexual Content - Graphic references to and/or depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity
* Suggestive Themes - Mild provocative references or materials
* Tobacco Reference - Reference to and/or images of tobacco products
* Use of Drugs - The consumption or use of illegal drugs
* Use of Alcohol - The consumption of alcoholic beverages
* Use of Tobacco - The consumption of tobacco products
* Violence - Scenes involving aggressive conflict
Oh, these were copied off the ESRB site.
Regulation of games is pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds likely to me.
While it seems to me that an objective rating system could be a useful tool to parents, I am wary that it is probably the first step in restricting the sale of "violent" games to minors.
It just doesn't make sense to me to try to regulate the sale of video games. I am fine with legal age limits on movies, cigarettes and alcohol, which people often try to compare it to, but there are a few key differences:
1.) Movies, cigarettes and alcohol are relatively cheap. The ten or twenty dollars a teenager might have can go a long way. But what teenager has the $300 for a game console plus $50 per game without getting the money from his parents, which I would interpret as implict approval of their use? (And if a kid does earn that kind of money on his own, he is probably already sufficiently independent of his parents to make it a moot point.)
2.) Cigarettes and alcohol are relatively easy to consume on the sly, and short of never letting a kid out of the house, parents can't directly control what movies they see in theatres with friends. Games, on the other hand, pretty much require a setup that is going to be used at home, where presumably there is usually someone around to supervise. It's not like kids can sneak out after school and hang out in the woods playing GTA with their friends.
Anyway, my point is that the "protect the family" groups fundamentally misrepresent the danger posed to kids by violent games. And it seems especially hypocritical to claim to be "protecting the family" by undermining a parent's authority to have the final say in what is acceptable for their children... The regulation of games serves no purpose except to create the perception that these games are bad and thereby push one people's set of values on another.
Re:Regulation of games is pointless (Score:2)
The real issue is parenting. With both parents working or distracted by other personal concerns, kids are left to regulate themselves. In single-parent homes, self-regulation may
ESRB doesn't work anyway. (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the game manufacturers are probably quite happy with the ESRN simply because it adds an extra incentive to buy that title for kids who "can't". It's kind of like slapping those "explicit lyrics" stickers on CDs...doesn't do a thing.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Jeez! (Score:2)
Why pay them any attention? It's just advertising for them. Better to ignore such people, rather than feeding the trolls.
Re:Jeez! (Score:2)
1. Dismiss opponent as insane... check!
2. Attack opponent with strawman... check!
3. Advocate censoring opponent... check!
In other words, why defend your own position when it's much less work to silence the opposition?
Violent games in the right context... (Score:2, Interesting)
Gee, I wonder why it got these grades (Score:3, Interesting)
Retailers' Policies: B
Retailers' Enforcement: D-
Ratings Accuracy: F
Arcade Survey: B-
Industry's 10-year cumulative grade: D+
To begin, most parents I know don't enforce video game ratings in the same manner they do movie ratings. Most of us grew up with games unrated and turned out fine. The fact that retailers don't heavily enforce the policies goes to show how many people think the game rating system is silly in the first place.
As for the rating accuracy getting a failing grade, I whole heartedly agree that given the organization handing out these grades is politically motivated, they just want to push violet games out of the market by making as many as possible Adult Only. If this were a real issue, we'd have droves of pissed off parents with 16 year olds they thought were playing a different game. In reality, AO has the stigma of being equivalent to hard core porn. These games aren't the equivalent, and this really is more a political group crying they aren't getting their way. Uh oh, we've got a baby down. I repeat, baby down! Someone call the wah-bulance!!
Re:Gee, I wonder why it got these grades (Score:3, Insightful)
When you were a kid you could play nearly every game in the store. Imagine an eight year old now and nearly a third of the games they see, they can't play because they are not age appropriate.
Demographic chaning.. (Score:2)
That said, call a spade a spade, kids can't buy porn either. But don't rate differently because it's a game, the same rules should apply to all media. As an adult, -I- pick what I want. Rate it how you want.
So True (Score:2)
Here is a
Reality is that the NIMF are right-wing wackos... (Score:2, Flamebait)
True, normal Christians are done a great disservice by these extremists who pretend to speak for them. We should all applaud the ESRB for calling them out on their socio-political agenda.
Actually, I feel a little bad for lumping the NIMF in with a lot of right-wingers, many of whom are really *fiscal* conservatives but would prefer *
NIMF has a political agenda, ESRB doesn't, mostly (Score:3, Interesting)
A more or less neutral rater(ESRB), pretty much the gaming version of the MPAA, gives games ratings. Just like the 'NC-17' or the old X ratings, Movies intending to have a presence on the mass market theaters will work with the board to get a better rating. They'll edit the movie to get down to an R or PG-13. A PG-13 movie has a much wider viewing audience than a R, so there's pressures to make films even milder if it's a marginal R. And, just like the MPAA, there are going to be oddities on how they rate certain marginal films. The rating is being decided upon by a board of humans, on what can be called a piece of art. You can't necessarily make up a metric based on number of deaths, that'd sink movies like the titanic, war movies having battlegrounds. Neither can you measure by 'punches thrown'(what if it's a documentary about a boxer?), amount of curse words, etc. It's all relative.
NIMF appears to be an organization of fear mongers, trying to control society through the cry of 'it's for the children!'.
If they want more games to be assigned an 'AO' rating, well, then they should actually work on convincing stores to stock them. Otherwise you'll get a number of 'borderline' games, where, just like in films, they edit and tweak to get the lower rating so they can actually have a physical presence in stores like Best Buy, Walmart, Target. Heck, even places like Gamestop and such don't stock AO games.
I was allowed to rent and watch R rated movies, with my younger brother, from when I was 12. My parents had to submit a signed letter with the rental place for me to be able to, but they did it. Why? They felt that I was able to handle the difference between fiction and reality. Of course, ratings were tougher back then, to the point that today, people today would scratch their heads and go 'They gave THAT an R?'.
If NIMF has it's way, it'd end up having to call for legal enforcement of the ratings systems, because adults would be ignoring them even more, like my parents did for the R ratings. Their only restriction was a verbal 'no horror films'. Of course, they usually watched with us.
ESRB gets an "A+" (Score:3, Funny)
It's killographic! (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not just a gamer, I'm a killographer!
Taliban? (Score:3, Insightful)
*Fill in any other group that you can hyjack for your political purposes.
The Taliban moved exactly the same way in Afganistan, slowly poisening society followed by a sudden coup, they also used exactly the same arguments as these right wing socalled christian groups in the US.
More and more I feel for the sane half of the US population.
Re:TO the NIMF - So F@(&!^& What! (Score:3, Insightful)
---While I'm not a big proponent of any of these three, I think that they should be available for the adults who wish to
Re:TO the NIMF - So F@(&!^& What! (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, children (15 and up) can get drivers licenses. They do cosign with an adult though, but nonetheles
Damn report cards (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire concept implies that that writer of the report card has superior knowledge about the issue at hand, like a teacher, and is dispensing wisdom to those lesser informed 'students.'
More often than not, the organization criticized has all the experience there is to be had in that particular field, while the issuers of the 'report card' are just assholes with a questionable, ill-founded agenda.
Moreover, the issuance of a report card is symbolic of a complete lack of humility, something I think most people could use more of. They don't consider themselves adults having a disagreement, they consider themselves unquestionably superior to the ESRB. I'm not particularly religous, but the right amount of humility causes you to seriously reflect on yourself, your motivations and your knowledge before you take decisive action. It also allows you to take criticism constructively instead of ignoring it or lashing out defensively.
This censorship group offends me (Score:3, Insightful)
They're using false logic in saying there should always be a certain percentage of games rated AO. That means no matter how bland and boring the games are, there's still some rated AO. Then games are forced to be blander and blander.
The system is fine. M is the R equivalent. (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, M and AO aren't that different. M is 17+ and AO is *gasp* 18+. One year doesn't make a bit of difference.
Every game has a movie equivalent. So what game you wanna pick on? GTA? Then let's go after Goodfellas, Casino, or The Godfather.
You don't like Doom or Quake? Let's go after Aliens.
So in reality, the rating system is just fine. The problem here is that we put people in charge who think it's perfectly acceptable to push their bullshit moral agenda onto everyone else. Another problem is that those in charge are naive and ignorant, and dismiss video games as something "only children play".
If there's really that big of a problem with mature games falling into the hands of younger players, perhaps people should use their head and point the fingers at the parents. When they get the complaint about the game (otherwise, why do they care?), the person filing the complaint should ask the parents, "Where were you and what were you doing to let this happen? Sounds like a family communication issue."
The Good Parenting Guidebook (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is a list of the things I don't want him exposed to,
1) TV news, especially local news. Seriously, watch the news tonight, count how many random murders, rapings, child abductions and deadly car accidents they describe in gruesome detail. I counted 13 reports of people dying on a local Tuesday night news report. Talk about scarring the SHIT out of children. Show a picture of a cute little blond haired blue eyed girl and then show a picture of this grisly looking bald drunk that kidnapped and rapped her home while her mother watched. Show the mom on the news crying. You want to fuck up your kids, let them watch the nightly news. The news glorifies and lingers on REAL horror and violence. Not appropriate for children or adults. Should be rated XXXX.
2) Really scary movies, I would never let him watch the excorcist because I don't need him waking me up at 3:00 in the morning telling me he hears a scratching sound on his wall, because that would scare the hell out of me. Movies that scare the shit out of young children should be rated XXX.
3) McDonalds, Must be 18 or older to enter. I can't count the number of parents who shove that processed food stuff in front of little children because their to lazy to make them something healthy to eat. Your kid weighs 300 pounds in 3rd grade and seeing a set of tits is his problem. Fat kids should be allowed to see porn, it might be enough motivation for them to lose weight once they realize they are never going to get laid being that fat.
4) pop and candy, my little boys best friends, both 4, eat a shitload of candy. Their parents are always giving us shit because we won't give our kid candy or pop, with the exception of cake at birthday parties. Both those 4 year olds have had multiple cavities. Once again, multiple times they have been to the dentist to get teeth drilled. We took our son in a few weeks ago for the first time. The dentist says it was quite rare to see a kid his age with such perfect teeth. If all that candy and shit is rotting our kids teeth out, what the hell is it doing to their insides, but why focus on that when we can focus on complete bullshit like kids shooting a virtual gun.
5) Dumb kids, everybody has met stupid adults, well guess what, those stupid adults were once stupid kids. Those people didn't become stupid when they grew up, they have always been stupid. I know their are some kids stupid enough to believe that video games are real. Ain't shit you can do to help these kids. They are STUPID. It wouldn't matter if it was a video or movie, some jackasses will mimic anything they see. My solution, create bullshit rating systems... oh wait, a better idea, teach my kid to pick out stupid kids and learn to avoid their presense at all cost, just like the rest of us do with stupid adults. I don't walk up and start a conversion with a drunk walking down the street with shit stains on his ass. Same thing goes for my kid, if he sees a kid sitting in the corner of his classroom eating his own snot, I tell my kid he should stay the fuck away from that kid because he will one day be that shit-stained drunk.
Here is a list of things I could care less if he sees,
1) GTA or any violent video game, he knows its no more real than pretending to have a gun in his hand and his friend having a pretend arrow. GTA, is just cowboys and indians 2000 version. My choices are, sitting down and playing these terrible games with my kid and explaining their all just make believe and showing him how offended I am at some parts of the game which helps him understand what is and isn't acceptable in real life, or letting him end up playing it anyway at some other kids house with his only influence being the other kid, the same kid who's parents would allow him to have a game like GTA and have his friend come over to play it without first asking the other parent if this is ok.
2) Nudity, seriously,
I will be happy (Score:5, Insightful)
Now i'm off to go play some Far Cry multiplayer with my 9 and 10 year old (seeing who can do the best ramp jumps in the drivable boats) woot!
Re:Why is an AO rating so bad? (Score:3, Insightful)