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Games Entertainment

'Used' A Dirty Word in Gaming 339

Posted by Zonk from the cheap-games-don't-steal-your-soul dept.
Gamers with Jobs has a piece looking at the increasingly negative reaction the game industry has towards used games. From the article: "The problem is that the used game market has not only redefined the direction of the specialty retailer, but it has attracted the attention of the big box stores, and the success of limited test markets might eventually reshape the landscape of the gaming retail industry as a whole, edging publishers and developers out of a significant cut of the action. This as next-generation systems send development costs skyrocketing put developers in the position spending more than ever just as the biggest retailers are considering keeping more of the profits for themselves."
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'Used' A Dirty Word in Gaming More

'Used' A Dirty Word in Gaming

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  • The alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stachybotris ( 936861 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:53PM (#14627689)
    Buying a used game for $20 is better than buying it new for $50 only to discover that it sucks.

    Besides, some of those used games are really worth picking up but they're out of print. So should we just never get the rare gems? Obviously the answer is to buy them new, but sometimes you don't realize how good a game is until its too hard to find - reference Disgaea.

    • Re:The alternative? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ObsessiveMathsFreak ( 773371 ) <obsessivemathsfreak@eirc o m .net> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:19PM (#14628017) Homepage Journal
      Buying a used game for $20 is better than buying it new for $50 only to discover that it sucks.

      Amen.

      The best purchases are always those classic gems you pick up for cheap in the used section. I mean, it's a perfectly good game, in some cases a gaem, and all for a third the price.

      Personally I'm sick of having to pay over $80 per game. This alone has largely stopped me buying. And in europe, we are paying $80 per game.
      • I'm with you all the way on this.
        What I'm worried about is activation similar to winXP. What then?
        that will suck.
        -nB
        • You need windows to get your work done and pay the rent, you don't need GTA4. If sony says, "you can't sell this once you've bought it" they're gonna have charge $25 for it or they're in for a real suprise.

          Or maybe they're not, and anyone who buys it deserves exactly what they get ("effed in the a" as Cartman would say).

      • Re:The alternative? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Professor_UNIX ( 867045 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:06PM (#14628504)
        Personally I'm sick of having to pay over $80 per game. This alone has largely stopped me buying.

        The problem with buying used games is it is akin to stealing from the game publisher. They don't get a dime of that revenue from the second or third sale of a game, only the first, so by you buying a $20 copy of a game, you're essentially stealing an $80 sale from them. Hopefully Congress will shore up this loophole and outlaw the resale of intellectual property by anyone other than the copyright owner.

        /joking of course, but I'm sure they're trying!

        • I do not steal from Steven King when I buy a used copy of one of his books.
          I do not steal from James Brown when I buy a used CD.
          No publisher or author has the right to tell me what I can or cannot do with a product I have paid them for.
          • I do not steal from Steven King when I buy a used copy of one of his books.
            I do not steal from James Brown when I buy a used CD.
            No publisher or author has the right to tell me what I can or cannot do with a product I have paid them for.

            First and second line: Absolutely correct.

            Last line: Incorrect.

            If you purchase a CD, you do not have the right to play that music at your restaurant where dozens of patrons can listen to it while they eat. This is considered a public performance and you must pay a seperate f

        • Re:The alternative? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by squoozer ( 730327 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @04:09PM (#14629105)

          Glad I read to the end I was about to give you a right proper flaming. The problem is tha tview you expressed is actually held by some people.

        • This loophole... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Cryptnotic ( 154382 ) *
          This loophole will be closed with the transition to online distribution.
    • I totally agree. The catch as I see it is that most of the time the game isn't $20. It's $45.

      So to many people, they see an opened game with a scuffed up cover, no manual, and the possibility of a scratched disk. Compared to the new copy for $5 more.

      It's little wonder why "used" is a dirty word in the gaming industry. Most people's experience with it relates to being gouged by hobby stores, and seeing little discount on used titles compared to new.

  • They can have my used Atari 7800, Gameboy Color, and all the games that go with them when they pry them from my cold, dead, fingers!
    • I can honestly say that's easier said then done. I've still got clawed hands from years of playing Xevious with those things!

  • Used games are all I can afford (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:53PM (#14627696)
    I picked up Metroid Prime "Used" for $12.50 canadian. When used games are half the price or less than the new one, and offer nothing different, then I'm going to buy the used one. It's simple economics. I usually don't buy games at full prices either. I wait until they've sold a million copies, and only cost $30. I applaud the gaming industry for actually lowering prices once the initial investment has been made back, whereas with music CDs, the prices only seem to go up after the initial release.
    • I can see a future where online "registration" locks a copy of the game to the original purchaser, by assigning that serial number to a personal account. X3: Reunion does something of this sort. MMOG's have done this since day one.

      With services like xbox live, it would be trivial to lock a physical copy of a game to a specific gamer tag. In one fell swoop, the used game market dries up.

      Of course this depends on how well dev houses adapt to changing times. Valve has obviously had some foresight with their ro
      • er, didn't proofread very well. I didn't intend to make Steam sound like a "good" thing when it comes to used games. I meant to state that Valve has seen how important the used game market is, and has developed a system to lock used game sales out.
    • You did a good thing. Metroid Prime is not one of those games with a "use by" date, so getting it a couple years late at a fifth the price is fine. That's how I picked up Super Metroid, though the bastard still cost $30, what with being the most popular used SNES game besides Mario Kart. Both are games that I will enjoy playing a decade from now.

      Which is actually a nice thing about buying used games -- by the time it hits the used stores and is low in price, you will know whether or not it is a classic t

  • Dev cost skyrocketing? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dc29A ( 636871 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:54PM (#14627705)
    How?

    Take Madden 2004, slap on it new textures, make some minor gameplay changes, call it Madden 2005 and release it.

    How the hell does that skyroket costs when they are using the same goddamn engine with prettier graphics and a few minor asthetic changes?
    • The cost of exclusivity of the NFL & NFLPA licenses + the cost of the licensed music in the menus of the game + the cost of having John Madden on ramble on, all the while sounding like he's eating the entire time = skyrocketing prices
      • Do they really have to have the NFL and NFLPA license? I haven't played Super Mario Strikers myself, but i've seen it get great reviews, and people calling it one of the best sports games ever made. I know that a lot of people like the official NFL games, but there's still a lot of money to be made outside of licensed sports games.
        • I'm not saying they have to, but it is what they currently have. And now it is what the fans expect. I'm sure the exclusivity of the deal drives the price up, since neither the NFL or NFLPA are making money from multiple sources. And also the (entirely unecessary) music likely drives the cost up quite a bit.
      • The funny thing is that the music sucks and the gameplay is horrid as well. My friends and I have found tons of bugs on the X-Box version. I suppose their strategy was that so long as they are the sole licensee of NFL/NFLPA people will buy their games for that reason alone.
        • I suppose their strategy was that so long as they are the sole licensee of NFL/NFLPA people will buy their games for that reason alone.

          That's exactly what I said as soon as I found out about it. The reason its in the top 10 selling games every year is that people who aren't really gamers buy it to simulate the football season. It's just not the same when you're playing as the Philadelphia Birds of Prey, the Pittsburgh Steel Workers, and the Tampa Bay Software Copyright Infringers.
        • Just curious, but what "bugs" are you finding in the Box version? And is this the normal XBox or the 360? The Cube version is pretty solid from what I can tell. The only problem I've seen is the usual Madden Karma that creeps in and works against you when you succeed too much. This is becoming increasingly noticeable now that I am 8-0 on the hardest difficulty settings with the Falcons. I've lost Vick for 5 weeks on a play where he didn't even get touched and then turned the ball over 5 times against M
      • Couldn't they just release a game where you could completely customize the player names, jerseys, and team names, and let the players make their own NFL game? If it really affects the cost of the game that much to include the official NFL logo, then why don't they remove it. Allowing players to make their own teams would allow for some extra gameplay too.

    • Re:Dev cost skyrocketing? (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because the developers' income have risen substantially over the past 5 years.

      We used to pay $8/hr for an expert programmer with two PhDs. Now it's $10/hr for a guy with only one PhD! When will it end??? Bangalore is getting pricey!

    • different development costs (Score:5, Funny)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:28PM (#14628746)
      The skyrocketing costs are not due to making changes in game play but in the successful game developers' increasing appetite for booze, coke, and whores.
      • Yep, put those 3 things in a blender and you have yourself the magic drink that will keep you coding all night and fuel your 100 hour weeks for 2.5 years as you 'crunch' to get your game out on time. Ah I remember the days.
    • Take Madden 2004, slap on it new textures, make some minor gameplay changes, call it Madden 2005 and release it.

      I may be speaking slightly out of place here, but I have a good friend that not only worked foe EA Tiburon, but actually worked on the UI for both madden 2005 and madden 2006.

      let me assure you several things:
      1. it's not just as easy as "slapping on prettier textures". yes the code is very old (and crappy), but there's tons of work that has to be done (largely fixing bugs)
      2. they work the ever-loving ***

  • Just like CD sales... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:54PM (#14627708) Homepage Journal
    ...the rising used market is just another signifier of a dying business model: the distribution of content on physical media. The game industry is crying because the majority of them have not yet embraced download installations. Suckers. "In the future", every game will have an online component and an unlocking system ala steam.

    • Everyone's just like me. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "...the rising used market is just another signifier of a dying business model: the distribution of content on physical media. The game industry is crying because the majority of them have not yet embraced download installations."

      Hi! I'm in the middle of nowhere, on 33.6 dialup. How will your "miracle method" help me? How about this; what's the difference between the "old, and busted" were I buy a CD with manuals, and "the new hotness", were I bulk buy CD blanks, and cases, and print out the documentation?
      • Well, now that I've read your comment I see why you posted Anonymously. You're a dingleberry. Try this: Sooner or later there will be no place on the planet where you cannot get high speed internet access, at least by today's standards. Perhaps you haven't noticed the amazing growth in mesh networking and the fact that several manufacturers are already making WiFi-equipped cellphones. Soon enough they'll be mesh-networking WiFi cellphones and this whole internet access problem will be far less of a problem.

    • Re:Just like CD sales... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Syncdata ( 596941 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:00PM (#14628456) Journal
      I cannot disagree more with your point. I demand a physical copy of my media, be they CDs, DVDs, or Games. I want to be able to uninstall it, put it away, and still be able to re-install it 2 years after the company that made it has gone bankrupt.

      Ask yourself, if Valve/vivendi were to go out of business tomorrow, would you be able to play half life 2?
      • There's nothing about this idea that inherently prevents you from burning a backup. Granted, specific implementations may do that - and you may choose to avoid purchasing software from people who use implementations like that.
    • The game industry is crying because the majority of them have not yet embraced download installations. Suckers. "In the future", every game will have an online component and an unlocking system ala steam.

      Yeah, that's the solution to the problem: not to make games worth buying, but to make them impossible to sell when you get stuck with crap. That'll really give the industry a boost.

  • Just brainstorming here (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HarvardFrankenstein ( 635329 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:54PM (#14627714) Homepage
    Here's an idea for the development houses: don't spend so much money.

    The publishers will insist that graphics sell, that you need such high-res textures that you can see the models' individual pores, that you need to get Hollywood actors to do the voices. I don't buy that. If Geometry Wars and the success of the DS have taught us anything, it's that gameplay sells.

    I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that I don't play graphics.

    • Exactly, my favourite games are often the most simple. These include Bomberman, Super Monkey ball, mario kart, zelda, and animal crossing. I'm obviously a Nintendo fan, but what i'm pointing out, is that none of these games have flashy graphics, or cost all the much to make. I often find the ones that spend too much time making a game look good often miss out on a lot of gameplay.
    • Graphics are the only thing you can see in an advertisement. As long as game houses depend on advertisement to sell their games, their games will center around ridiculous graphics.
      • I don't think i've ever bought a game based on the advertisements. I usually look at reviews. If there's a lot of good reviews, and it's in the genre I like, there's a good chance i'll buy it. I don't even remember the last time I saw a video game ad outside of a video game magazine/website. Creating a good game that people like will generate it's own advertising via reviews.
    • I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that I don't play graphics.

      Yeah, us text adventure fans are a dying breed. :-/
    • "I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that I don't play graphics"

      Yes . . . Except in the case of DOAX volleyball with the nude hack :-)
      -nB

    • Re:Just brainstorming here (Score:4, Insightful)

      by caerwyn ( 38056 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:14PM (#14628585)
      The problem with this is that while you can throw money at pretty graphics, you can't throw money at creative, engaging gameplay. Reusing an existing idea and "upgrading" it with new graphics and models may take a lot of development time and money, but it's just a matter of throwing resources at the problem. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at bad game designers, though- they're not going to create something amazing.

      Therefore, the development houses go for what they can be certain of- throw money at a game, sell it based on graphics, make money. It might not make the best games, but there's no denying that they *do* sell.
    • The publishers will insist that graphics sell, that you need such high-res textures that you can see the models' individual pores, that you need to get Hollywood actors to do the voices. I don't buy that. If Geometry Wars and the success of the DS have taught us anything, it's that gameplay sells.

      Agree 100%. I've been trying to save my money lately but just this past week I finally broke down and bought a DS (yeah, I know about the DS Lite...) along with Mario Kart, Sonic Rush and Nintendogs, all new, and

  • Sounds good to me! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 77Punker ( 673758 ) <spencr04@highpo i n t.edu> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:57PM (#14627753)
    It forces game makers to make games that have large lasting appeal. I've sold loads of games that are "beat once, throw away". There's other games with loads of features and content that I'll never get rid of because some day I know I'm gonna go back and play it some more. This can only be a good thing.

    • Re:Sounds good to me! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by n2art2 ( 945661 )
      Actually I think this forces the game developers to make play it and beat it once, then throw it away games, and not the other way around.

      The reason I say this is because they want that person who bought the game new to have to turn around and buy another game new sooner. If they can make games that have little lasting appeal but great marketing upon launch then they have a cash cow system. It's all about the repeat sales. turn out more titles, faster, and make the games have a shorter lifespan is good fo

  • replay value (Score:3, Interesting)

    by szembek ( 948327 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:58PM (#14627763) Homepage
    Maybe if they make more games that have a higher replay value they will find less copies of them showing up used. If you take a game that is only fun the first time you play through it, then why would somebody keep it on their shelf?
    Personally I always buy used games. EB and gamestop have 90 day warranties on their pre played games and even for 5 buck's less it's good to me.
    • Indeed. I tend to only pick up games on-the-cheap. And if you make a decent game and add "New Game Plus" (or equivalent), you've instantly made it twice as worthwhile (if not more) for about $5 worth of coding. Unless the game was so bad the first time through *cough*doom3*cough* that it's not worth playing while retaining a lot of your old goodies. Of course that applies a lot more to RPGs, but they tend to have better replay value to start anyways. While I now prefer the fast-paced FPS gameplay, I've

  • Here's something smart to do : (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hitto ( 913085 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @01:59PM (#14627767)
    How about these greedy slobs try and produce games with lower development costs?
    It's always the same story : when an industry starts gaining mainstream approval, it just becomes a penis contest to see who will do it more, harder, better, with more explosions, big boobs, and bigger budget!

    Look at hollywood actually BRAG about production costs, the same is happening to videogames, only this time, video games are supposed to be more fulfilling than two hours of non-interactive eye candy!
    • How about these greedy slobs try and produce games with lower development costs?

      The development costs are already at rock bottom. The big name companies barely keep their artists and programmers fed.

      The 'high development costs' actually go to buying movie licenses, paying over-rated and over-priced voice talent (or over-rated and over-priced famous designers), paying for outrageous advertizing, hype, and favorable reviews, and most of all, lining the pockets of the publisher who is making a living mostly of

  • Hmmm.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by inphinity ( 681284 )
    It would seem to me, however, that there's so easy solution to the problem. (Having not RTFA...) If you force (through legislation or otherwise) every retailer to pay a kickback to the publisher for every used game sold, that will immediately piss off the thousands of smaller retailers who simply can't afford that type of extra expense. Although, those smaller retailers are increasingly rare these days, thanks to the 'community store' model that EB has been adopting.

    • I seem to recall it works that way in France - a used book seller adds 10% which goes to the copyright holder. Seems sensible, because I'm in favor of paying artists for the pleasure they give me. No I'm not pro RIAA, sod the industry, support the artists!
      • "Seems sensible, because I'm in favor of paying artists for the pleasure they give me."

        That seems fair.

        But if I find the book/game/CD doesn't give you pleaseure, does the "artist" agree to give your money back?
    • While we're at it, lets have used book resellers pay a kickback to the publisher for every used book sold too! Heck, some of those used books sell for thousands of dollars! What's that, it might be a little difficult to find the publisher of a 200 year old book? Gee, what makes you think the publisher of every game is still in business and still actively selling the game? Fair use rights for games shouldn't be any different from fair use rights for books; the used market makes available to the public parts

  • My analysis (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Julian Morrison ( 5575 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:14PM (#14627944)
    1. Stupid people spend to their most optimistic projection and then complain that money's tight.

    2. Stupid people assume that because they've always made money up to now, they can rest on their laurels.

    3. Stupid people think that when their income dries up, whining will make it return.

    BTW, have any of these numbskulls considered and compared the effect of the used car market? If a thing retains value for resale, people will be happy paying extra for it first-hand.

    • Used games as used cars? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      An interesting thought there. If publishers can create a market value index for used games, give them a "blue book" equivalent or some such, then they can control/influence the retained value of a used game. If a game is popular, and it's "blue book" value is high, it will be harder for retailers to pay customers dirt prices for the games, squeezing their profit margin on used games. If the

      In any case, it could drive up the cost of used recent titles, lowering the incentive to buy used over new, and incr

  • Gimme a break (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Austerity Empowers ( 669817 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:14PM (#14627945)
    Used games require a previous owner who played, got bored, and sold the game. That says the game sucked. Make better games. If a game is good, people are going to fall all over themselves to get a copy, new, used or otherwise.

    Duh.

  • An entire website devoted to... (Score:4, Funny)

    by aapold ( 753705 ) * on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:15PM (#14627955) Homepage Journal
    Gamers who hang with Steve Jobs?

  • Alternative is worse (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheSkepticalOptimist ( 898384 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:16PM (#14627977)
    If game developers and publishers start balking at used games, the worse is outright rampant piracy.

    The problem here is the quality of the games in general (like with everything in the entertainment industry these days) is horrid. Quick rehashed sequels of popular games are being released more often then original game content. Gamers are becoming increasingly wary of dropping full price for a game they may find out they don't like 2 hours after playing it. Buying used games gives them an opportunity to play that game at a reduced price, and then trade back the game in exchange for another new/used game. Also, most gamers are finding more value in trading games for new games, as their is generally no need to hold on to a game that has been played to death and will never be touched again.

    In the PC gaming market, you don't even have to buy used games. If you wait 6 - 8 months after a game is released, it is usually marked down 40 - 60% or comes bundled with value added features like add-ons or other games for a cheaper price.

    I don't see how game developers can do anything to stop this. They sell a product and have little ( or should have little ) impact on after-market sales. I am sure Ford and GM would love to control how their used cars get sold, get some profit from the trading and selling of used cars, but the idea that any profit should return to Ford after they initially sell a car is ridiculous. Same goes for the video game industry.

    I think the video game industry is realizing that they are not making an easy profit anymore, that gamers are becoming more selective about the games they play. I think there has been a stagnation in the originality and quality of gaming titles, and gamers are no longer quick to buy a game that is an obvious rushed out sequel. But they have to realize that buy flooding the market with poor quality games isn't going to drive up sales. Instead of penalizing used game buyers, how about making better quality games that people want to pay full price for and keep indefinitely!

    If the game industry starts to mess up used game sales, forcing higher prices and demanding recuperation of profit from the sale of used games, the alternative is rampant piracy where those that would have spent $20 on a used game now will download it for free in spite of the gaming industry.
    • The problem here is the quality of the games in general (like with everything in the entertainment industry these days) is horrid. Quick rehashed sequels of popular games are being released more often then original game content.

      I was just playing a boxing game on the XBox 360 at a local game store the other day. I could have sworn that it was just an update of the Activision Boxing game for the Atari 2600, but with photo-realistic THREE-DEE graphics and a voice announcer. Nice features to have, but not real
    • Also, most gamers are finding more value in trading games for new games, as their is generally no need to hold on to a game that has been played to death and will never be touched again.

      So, if Game publishers want to cut out the used games phenomenon, all they have to do start making games that take a lot longer to play to death. Fallout, Fallout 2, Master Of Magic. I've had Master of Orion 3 since it first came out, and haven't even played a quarter of the races. (If the #$%^ing DirectX controlled engine

  • I find it hard to believe. (Score:3, Funny)

    by rwven ( 663186 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:17PM (#14627991)
    It seems to me that this whining is probably just gaming companies whose products didn't make the sales they wanted. Used games are an obvious scapegoat.

    Instead of "our game sucked so no one bought it," they can now say "our game didn't sell well because most people waited and bought used copies."

    If they really have a problem with used games, they need to come up with a "better" content distribution method. Something "Steam-ish."

  • Boo fscking hoo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ChaosDiscord ( 4913 ) * on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:23PM (#14628056) Homepage Journal
    On the flip side, the arguments against used games are equally sound, particularly from a developer standpoint.

    No, no they're not. "Capitalism is hard" is not a sound argument.

    Somehow the print publishing industry has managed to survive libraries and used book stores. The music industry managed to survive used record and CD stores. The movie industry has managed to survive video rental stores selling their old stock. The automotive industry has managed to survive used car sales.

    Stop whining and start figuring out how you're going to compete.

  • Used games (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Syrra ( 910699 )
    Huh, I haven't bought a new game in months, and its not just because there haven't been any that caught my eye. I've just started college, and paying for the books ate up all my money. And then there's also the fact that I've not been paying attention to games like I used to, I can live without them. If there's something amazing that comes out, either one of my friends will have it or I'll wait until it hits however many titles sold so that the price is reduced. I remember when I was young and all the best
  • What we need is a totally new concept of a game; something that people are willing to spend money on. Almost all new games out there give us more of the same, only with better graphics. Game makers should pay more attention to the story or the playability of a game. This is very hard to do because everything that makes a good game has been done before. But I only play adventure games, and I often find myself wondering why I enjoy lots of indie games with crappy graphics more than many new games with mind-bl
    • There's no need for a totally new concept. I'd be happy with an existing concept done properly. Offline RPG games for example, I haven't seen anything remotely peeking my interest for at least 5 years (I like first person dungeon crawlers -- stuff like Morrowind, Might & Magic, Dungeon Siege and all the AD&D crap which they "tried" to adapt for computers usually don't hold my interest for long).

      Or what about RTS games... after Total Annihilation, nothing even got close. Most of the current RTS b

    • It must be because the story is better in the indie games.

      not necessarily. it could just be that since they shot for easier targets, they hit more of what they were aiming for...

  • The usual rubbish... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@gma i l . com> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:33PM (#14628178) Journal
    This is the usual bourgeois rubbish where they're all for the "frea mahkit" until they go down the drain because they sux0r. That's the moment where they whine to the governor to outlaw their competition instead of adapting themselves.

  • Publishers got themselves into this... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:33PM (#14628187)
    ...and now they're getting what they deserve.

    For the longest time, publishers were the dispicable middlemen who took the bulk of the profits. Now, due to advances in technology, the money is going to stay with the retailers, who can efficiently catalog and redistribute used copies, or to the developers who can distribute electronically and cut the publishers out of the loop entirely.

    We're going to see the publishers spew this shit about how much more it costs to develop on next-gen systems and how used games make that harder, all while they're reeling from losing their cash; Cash which they keep as profits, and use for kickbacks, mis-management and marketing, which are the real bulk of game costs, dwarfing development costs by so much that it almost doesn't even matter if development costs double on net-gen systems. The same crap is happening to publishing/distributing companies in every industry. They're crying as their business models become obsolete. It's too bad that there's no good will towards them since they've been screwing people form both ends for centuries.

    Let the publishers rot. Few will mourn the loss of 'Big Name' games and musicians, and their demise will make more room in the industry for artists and engineers as the money they keep from their big name titles gets spread out amongst an industry full of a larger number of lesser known titles. You won't have to be a rockstar anymore to be able to make a living as a musician, script writer, or game artist. The change is already started, and short of purchased legislation there's no way to stop it.

  • I've got a better idea (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:44PM (#14628294)
    Game companies upset about selling used games? I've got a better idea: let's donate all our used games to the PUBLIC LIBRARY, then anybody who wants to play the game can check it out and play it for FREE. Game developers might get some sympathy for trying to put used game sellers out of business, but let's see how much support they get when they attack libraries... I can't see any reason why my "fair use" rights to a game should be any different from my fair use rights to a bock... can you?

  • Hmmm (Score:2)

    by hattig ( 47930 )
    I got my PS2 and Gamecube used, they came with used games (including Ico with the postcards which according to eBay is worth quite a bit these days). I don't care about used games, or used music. Hell, play a game, finish it or get bored of it, sell it on amazon marketplace and fund your next game/music purchase.

    For new games, I don't buy them straight away, I wait for the price to drop or for a strange pricing decision. Sometimes that nets me a bargain, such as Spellforce for a tenner on the release day.

    TB

  • No more 0wn3D? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Vo0k ( 760020 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:52PM (#14628374) Journal
    I thought Owned, PWND, 0WN0R3D etc was the dirty word of the day in gaming.
    Now I can imagine a kid yelling I T0TALLY UZ3D U N00B!!!!!11 but why?

    • Now I can imagine a kid yelling I T0TALLY UZ3D U N00B!!!!!11 but why?

      Mod parent up. When I saw the one-liner headline on the Slashdot main page, my first thought was, "Damn, I just figured out the proper usage of 'pwnxxored' and now I've got to start all over again?" I feel so u53d.

    • I thought Owned, PWND, 0WN0R3D etc was the dirty word of the day in gaming.

      Just as used cars are now "pre-owned vehicles", used video games are now pre-0wned.

  • Last week, I bought Kameo [rareware.com], a full price XBox 360 game, and Marble Blast Ultra [xbox.com], an XBox Live arcade downloadable game for a fifth the cost.

    One of these games has myself and my flatmates addicted, the other I'm working slowly through mostly out of curiousity. I'm sure I don't have to tell you which one is which.

    This is not to say that smaller, easier to play games are the way forward, or giant stunning masterpieces are a bad idea, it's just an example. However, I do strongly believe the only thing pushing up
  • While this would be difficult to do currently, the hurdles will likely fall in the next year or two.

    The solution is to tailor distribution packages and prices according to intended usage.

    Continue selling physical media that can be resold/traded at current prices or perhaps a little higher.

    Sell physical media with restrictions that tie usage to a single individual for less.

    Sell digital media with time limited (perhaps even per unit of time, day or week) restrictions for less than the common price points of u
  • All media companies hate it. Movies, music, etc.
    I don't need to download music anymore. I buy it used for $2, rip it, and then sell it to the next guy and get my money back.
    Same with DVD's, if I wasn't too lazy to go through the ripping process with them.
    Either way, I'm buying used copies. My money doesn't go to the labels or the *AA's, but some kid on half.com.
    Sure, somebody had to have bought it at some point in the past, but the labels don't make a cent of my purchase, so lose one of their sacred "pot

  • Used games prop up the cost of new games. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thisissilly ( 676875 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:31PM (#14628770)
    Some people are willing to pay $50+ for a new game, only because they know when they finish they can turn around and sell it for $30+.

    If they could not "get back" that money, they would buy fewer new games. More casual gamers like myself wait, find out what is good and what sucks, and buy the good used games six months or a year or so after release.

    Think of what the car market would be like if you could not sell your used (excuse me, "pre-owned") car.

    Movie studios used to charge $100 dollars for a movie (on video tape!). Only rental stores bought them, for the most part. Then they learned that the magic point was $15-20. Sure, they make less profit per sale, but they make so many more sales, it is well worth it. Perhaps video game producers should learn the same lesson?
  • The distributors need to set up a buyback program. In the game pack they should include a postage-paid envelope that you can ship the contents back in for a partial refund of the price when you no longer want the game. Then they won't have to worry about getting cut out of the loop. They can then distribute their own line of used games to whatever stores are interested.

    Of course, I really think Steam will be the route they end up going.
  • Are these execs morons? Do they not know their demand curves? The used market exists because they price too high for too long. So they lose revenue.

    Vidgames are not prestige goods (perfume) where people equate higher price with greater quality. They ought to drop prices quarterly rather than annually.

  • Can't wait for the "No Resale" logos from Japan to make it over here...But of course if they do, and Gamestop folds (of course they wouldn't, I'm thinking "Licensed Reseller" is where this is all going.) and nobody sells used, will prices on new go down? No.Reason 360 Games start at $60? Dev costs? No, it's the same reason Oil keeps going up. Because they can. Because we'll bitch about it all the way to Gamestop where we preorder the latest-greatest-newest-coolest thing, but we won't actually do someting ab

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