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Games Entertainment

What About the Grey Gamers? 100

Posted by Zonk from the some-gamers-are-older-than-fifteen dept.
Chris Morris at CNN's Game Over column wonders out loud about the legions of older gamers, and their snubbing by most of the gaming industry. From the article: "The Entertainment Software Association reports that 19 percent of the people playing video games are 50 or older. That's a huge jump from 1999, when players of that age group made up just 9 percent of the gaming world. Game publishers, though, seemingly couldn't care less - mainly leaving senior gamers to Web-based games, such as PopCap Games' 'Bookworm'. And while it certainly makes loads of sense for publishers to focus primarily on the core market, especially in transitional times like they're experiencing now, that focus is at risk of becoming myopic."
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What About the Grey Gamers? More

What About the Grey Gamers?

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  • I'm not an older gamer but (Score:3, Interesting)

    by east coast ( 590680 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:07PM (#14695320)
    I'm not an older gamer but I just recently started to play the games of my youth again. Telengard and Castle Wolfenstein (the original, not the FPS) rock!

    And this isn't to say I'm upset with the gaming industry, they're just getting old (as in tired). I still love playing stuff like CS:S but have you looked at what's coming out? Aside from the new Hitman all the new releases are just crap.

  • It's inevitable (Score:3, Insightful)

    by deadhammer ( 576762 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:12PM (#14695343)
    Eventually the game industry is going to have to figure out how to market to the older demographic. The majority of gamers currently are 25 and over. If we're talking about an industry that's planning on sticking around for the next few decades, it's going to come up eventually.

    Naturally, of course, there's still plenty of clout among the "video games are just for kids" crowd to delay this eventuality.

    • Yes, but the game programmers and marketers are going to get old to. They will be able to market and make stuff for their own generation when they get older.
    • Eventually the game industry is going to have to figure out how to market to the older demographic
      Maybe they already have... the summary mentions web-based games in a negative light, but what's wrong with them? If you're not pushing the graphics envelope, it's a very convenient and low-cost way to go for everybody involved. Works fine for all manner of card games and adventure games.
      • I would go for more online games if I could immerse myself easily.
        However, most enforce a tiny postage stamp sized area to play on and it completely wrecks the experience.

        I realise I can just link directly to the flash and get it fullscreen, but for a quickish playtest its inconvenient.
      • But how many older gamers would be willing to constantly shell out money for new games, versus playing Popcap games? How many older gamers would really go buy a DS and Tetris rather than play web games? It's not what percentage of gamers they make up, but what percentage of market share.
        • Percentage of market makes no difference. It is absolute numbers. People in the early days of computing were happy to make a game to sell a few thousand units. Now that the total gaming market is so much bigger, game companies foolishly turn up their noses at numbers of gamers that would make developing a great game worthwhile and profitable. It is just herd thinking.

          Yes, I am 55 years old, and I play Animal Crossing [gamespot.com] on the DS, and bought a PS2 so that I could play Katamari I and Katamari II [gamespot.com]. I will

  • Grey gamers? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Those darned space aliens better not be farmers.

  • When the new releases became 'classics' (Score:5, Funny)

    by photojunkie ( 903749 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:17PM (#14695375) Homepage
    I only hope that when I'm 72 and sitting down to play a little Mario Cart or Half-Life, my little brat grandkids won't bug me all the time with questions. "how do you play this game without stereo-glasses grandad?" "Is that supposed to be an alien?" Goddamn kids.
  • In team based online multiplayer games, the older players bring a level of experience, maturity, and organization that often make the group better as a whole, or at least more fun to play with. In many gaming clans I've been with over the years, its usually the older players (40+) who take the lead and provide an example for the 12 year olds in the group. So I say they're good for gaming, and at the very least, they don't swear as much over teamspeak and don't call everyone a n00b.

  • Not all "gamers" play FPS games... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FlyByPC ( 841016 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:36PM (#14695445) Homepage
    I'm not yet "old and grey," but I've never liked FPS games. DOOM was unique when it came out, but if you've seen one, you've seen them all. (Yes, I've tried more modern versions; the graphics are much more realistic, but there's still really no plot.)

    Why aren't there more games like Syberia, Myst, The 7th Guest? Even Zork, with *no* graphics, was more interesting than the shoot-anything-that-moves games that the industry seems to concentrate on these days.

    Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?
    • Why aren't there more games like Syberia, Myst, The 7th Guest?

      Profits.
      • Yeah, I remember Wolf 3D -- and the original Wolfenstein, too. Hell, I remember buying the Atari and getting bored of Combat the first weekend. Dad, can we go get another one? Hey, here's "Adventure", that looks good!

        An hour later, leave the yellow castle, go down the big corridor to the right, down into the room below, a dragon came at me, hair stood on end! Holy crap! Never looked back. Yeah, maybe we should've gotten an Oddysee II, or even the Intellivision (they did have an actual Dungeons and Dra
    • No plot??? Try something like Psi-Ops or Second Sight. Those were sort of crossover games, somewhere between first person shooters and an adventure game, with a seriously engrossing plot. And Second Sight had a great twist ending.

      And what about Deus Ex, a first person shooter which brought in RPG features and had multiple plotlines which were selected based on your choices? In the end, you chose one of three outcomes, A) you were the machine-enhanced god of a new world, taking over mankind in a sort of tota
    • Why aren't there more games like Syberia, Myst, The 7th Guest?

      There are. Looked at store shelves lately? Everyone and their dog is making adventures like that. Sure, many aren't very good but that happens with all games.

      Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?

      One of the so-called 4X games (Elite [clara.net] and its ilk, these days X3 [egosoft.com] is popular)? You can do anything you want in those and if
    • I agree. Every once in a while I'll play a FPS game, usually with or against someone, but they just don't hold my interest for very long. As far as I'm concerned, they're really just "twitch" games, and reaction time has never really been my strong suit. I didn't like Pong, and I don't much like Quake, either.

      I first played 7th Guest not as a computer game, but as a CD-I game (it was about the only useful thing I ever did with a CD-I, too). It was well thought out, the graphics were acceptable, and it was f

      • although I think today the puzzles might strike most people as not flowing too well within the game -- they were almost 'mini-games.'

        As if any fan of Feel the Magic or WarioWare would have a problem with that.

    • Re:Not all "gamers" play FPS games... (Score:4, Informative)

      by solios ( 53048 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @05:39PM (#14696007) Homepage
      Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?

      Give Escape Velocity Nova [ambrosiasw.com] a try, if you haven't already. It's available for Windows and MacOS and it's quite entertaining. It may not have the depth you're looking for, but it's extremely freeform for a modern game - you can be a trader, a raider, a transporter, a diplomat... sure there's combat involved, but it's more along the lines of Asteroids than Doom. I find the game highly enjoyable - it's the first piece of shareware I actually payed money for!
      • That one game depresses me. You are there, wandering the emptiness of space with your little space ship with its ridiculous proton laser gun that wouldn't move an asteroid from its orbit, trying to avoid any fights with the other ships, that are all bigger and better armed than you, to strive through hostile systems to deliver your 10 tons of food that you'll sell 70% more than you bought them, a stop at the station, fullfil your 5-shot hyperspace travel drive thing with fuel, look for some new *exciting mi

      • I tried that game.. I was having fun, exploring, trading, doing missions --- and then suddenly, I talked to this guy in a space station and my entire game was hijacked. I was unable to buy new ships, unable to carry much (any?) cargo, and unable to do most missions. So much for freeform gaming...

    • I'm not yet "old and grey," but I've never liked FPS games. DOOM was unique when it came out, but if you've seen one, you've seen them all. (Yes, I've tried more modern versions; the graphics are much more realistic, but there's still really no plot.)

      I'm in the same boat. I really hate FPS games; running around just killing everything doesn't really do anything for me. After about 20 minutes I find my head is just buzzing from them, they're like sensory overload without any fun.

      I'm in my late 30's, and w

      • Splinter Cell. I enjoy the strategy aspect of the game, so much so that the replay value is quite high for me. It does require a pretty beefy computer and the Starforce copy protection is very annoying. I doubt I will buy the next game because of the CP. I still need to uninstall SC:CT and see if my DVD burner still works. If it doesn't UBI and Starforce are going to get email from me. Not that they'll listen...sigh....rant over.

        Anyway, Splinter cell supports many different kinds of play styles. Pr
      • Black and White 2 is a really nifty game. The interface is about as simple as it gets, and the whole concept is rather amazing. Probably one of my favorite games ever.

      • Can anyone reccomend some games suited for a single player that don't require mutant reflexes to operate and that can just be played in small increments? Not being a 'hardcore' gamer, simple and fun is what I want most.


        Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space [shrapnelgames.com]

    • I guess I do qualify as a "grey gamer", and I've been gaming since Pong. I do like FPS games as well as games like Myst. I like GTA and other action games too. Just because you get older doesn't mean you stop liking games. If it wasn't for older gamers, there never would have been a gaming industry or the hardware to play the current games. The game industry might want to consider that older gamers have more disposable income to waste on their wares.
    • Although there are still companies producing 'classic graphical adventures', the adventure game genre has largely evolved into 3rd person action adventure, eg TombRaider, Beyond Good & Evil, Zelda:Yet Again, Kameo etc.

      Most FPS games are crap. It depends what you like. Halo/2 didn't have a particularly involved story but it did have a pretty cool backstory & characters.
    • "Yes, I've tried more modern versions; the graphics are much more realistic, but there's still really no plot."

      What a absolute rubbish! Tell me Halo didn't have a good plot, or Half life 1 and 2? Check this out http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/ [members.shaw.ca]

      "Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?"

      http://www.eve-online.com/ [eve-online.com]
  • "Why not, for example, a space exploration game -- concentrating on the science, economics, and logistics involved, instead of the usual shoot-the-evil-green-aliens theme?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what games like Homeworld and Age of Empires are all about?
    • You are wrong!

      Those games (Homeworld, Age of Empires) are about destroying your enemy. The grandpatrent poster was talking about games where violence isn't the only way.

      Civilization or Elite would have been good examples of such.
      • I see. Elite was going to be one of my examples, but I thought more modern games would have been a better example. To be fair, AoE can be about resources, anyone who has played it for a small amount of time will know that once you focus on the challenge, all the game really is about is collecting resources (and you can forge alliances).

  • Grey? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LordoftheLemmings ( 773163 )
    Does this mean the slashdot community is getting older too?
  • There are plenty of puzzle and card games as well as the new cool games. As a 37 year old, I am still as excited as playing a new game as I was when I was 15. One difference is that I want to jump in, play for an hour or so, then jump out. It is for this reason that I have avoided MMORPGs. I waited my whole life for these games to arrive, playing muds, single player dungeons (mines of moria / krozair on the plato cluster, dungeon master on my ST, wizardry on my apple ][, nethack on every computer I have eve

  • Great Game Idea for the Greys (Score:3, Funny)

    by NightWulf ( 672561 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:52PM (#14695523)
    "Get Off My Lawn 1.0" We could have Maxis do it, ala the Sims engine. Where you have a life simulation where you drive at 5mph down the roads, pay for food at the supermarket with 5,000 coupons, and yell at kids to get off your lawn.
    • Ya know, it wasn't until I was a homeowner that I realized how badly kids who cut across your yard needed regular canings. It's unbelievable.
    • Someone should seriously consider creating Elderly Escape, a stealth action where the purpose is to escape from an assisted living center (aka old folks' home). Throw in some branching dialogue trees ("son, please bring me a hacksaw for my birthday") and puzzles (how can you get your wheelchair-bound friend Chuck into the ventilation ducts?) and advanced AI for the patrolling "nursing assistants" and you have a very lively game.

      Or what about Grandma's House a management sim of dealing with visiting grandki
  • I've read things saying that women are more likely to feel nauseous or dizzy from 3D graphics than men - which I'm guessing is true, as it certainly happens to me. I wonder if you're also more susceptible to this as you age?

    I kind of hope that's true, so it'll give them one more reason to give me more 2D games...

    • As I've gotten older, I've had to cut out FPS games completely. You can imagine how disappointed I was when Half-Life 2 made me so nauseous that I almost threw up. Haven't tried another one since. Had no problems with Wolfenstein 3D through to the greats of the era, System Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

      But on the plus side, there are plenty of "thinking" games coming out that put more emphasis on gaming than graphics. This includes Introversion's upcoming Defcon and SunAge (published by Lighthouse Interactive,

    • 3D games give me headaches. It is probably due to my eyes not being aligned correctly.
    • I played Doom on a 486 and had a lot of fun. I was eager to try it on a new Pentium when that came out. I couldn't do it. Same exact game, but the faster frame rate nauseated me after only 1 minute of play. If the perspective transformation is just a tiny bit off, it upsets your sense of balance which upsets your stomach. Almost right is much worse than mostly wrong. Apparently Doom was almost right, but the 486 made it jerky enough that it wasn't a problem. A pity too-- can't fire up that game for o

  • What do you, a grey gamer, want to play? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by LionKimbro ( 200000 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @03:55PM (#14695545) Homepage
    I would just like to ask:

    What would you, a "grey gamer," like to play?

    • Are there any particular story themes you want to explore?
    • What kinds of characters would you like to play?
    • What sort of interactive experiences do you want to try out?
    • Who do you want to play with? Do you want to stay with your generation, or would you like to mix it up?
    • Where are you at in your life? What do you want to do?
    • What do you need? What do you have to contribute?


    I'd earnestly like to know the answers to these questions.

    It's clear that you can "learn new tricks," otherwise you wouldn't be playing these games. So, what sorts of new tricks do you want to perform?
    • "I'll know it when I see it."
    • At age 68 I no longer have the eye-hand coordinaton required for too many of today's games. I just recently came across my son's old Nintendo and have been playing the orignal Legend of Zelda and Dragon Warrior games and enjoying them.
    • Well, I find that I can't keep up the hand-eye coordination required for something like Burnout:Revenge for too long (although I did beat it), and I'm not really using any problem solving skills thes days. Almost every game qualifies as a twitch game.

      I think I'm looking for the same things in games that I'm looking for in movies: a good story, polished setting, and real emotion (even if it's just fear). Since the fall of the point-and-click adventure game, the story has consistently taken a back-seat to gra
      • You might like "Metal Gear Solid," as well.

        The first doesn't require a PS2.
        • I played the first on PS1. More movie than game, unfortunately.

          "story" doesn't necessarily mean sitting through 15 minute cutscenes.

          The first few Soul Reaver games were excellently done, as far as keeping the game and story together.

          What happened to "smart" games? Where are the "Gabriel Knight" games for this generation? The point-and-click genre might be dead, but that doesn't mean we didn't want adult stories or games that aren't based on twitch skills.
      • I turn 50 next week. Like many of the other "grey" posters, I've played many different computer games over the years. The original "Adventure" game was my first (remember "xyzzy"?), and I played a lot on an Apple II+ long before the PC came out. BTW, I have to laugh at the poster who thought Wolfenstein 3D was old -- I played the 2D version on my Apple years before the 3D version came out!

        Games that I've played recently and enjoyed? H/L I & II, Diable II, and Counterstrike are my favorites. I playe
    • I am 41, 3 kids, 3 dogs, 1 cat, and one beautiful wife - My games: 1) half life 1, 2 (waiting for the next sequel) 2) GTA - All versions, dabling into MTA 3) Age of Empires (yep, M$ can make bug free products!) In 10 years? The same games and a few more dogs... Why these games: They are all innovative and are not time sucks (so that I can have a life) Cheers
    • Okay, I can not really answer for myself, I am only 39 and have pretty well lost interest in computer games. However, I can comment on what I see my father playing, he is 76.

      He mostly plays solitaire. He plays it because it is relaxing and, as he says, "I can turn the thing off at any moment and it doesn't mean a thing." Based on that, I would say that any game sold to him needs a lot of auto saving (and modern computers are fast enough to do that). He isn't interested in any game that needs to have a ma

      • Some kind of turn-based strategy game, like Advance Wars or Age of Empires on the DS, would be great. While it's the player's turn, they can get up and leave, come back, and its still there. They're easy to learn, can save at any time, and on the DS, you can just bring it anywhere you want. Also - why aren't more Nintendo games being mentioned? Metroid Prime is a slower paced FPS concentrating primarily on exploration rather than headshots or kill totals. Great for those who don't have or even want to

  • Difficulty Settings (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @05:47PM (#14696035) Homepage
    I'd like to see more games with a wider range of difficulty settings. I get frustrated with games that expect everyone to have lightning-fast reflexes and excellent hand-eye coordination. There's a reason I became a computer programmer and not a baseball player.

  • Some thoughts from a "grey" gamer/game designer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bfwebster ( 90513 ) on Saturday February 11, 2006 @06:25PM (#14696261) Homepage
    I turn 53 in a few months and I still buy and play computer games on a regular basis; recent purchases include Civ IV and Star Wars Battlefront II (I've reviewed both on Amazon). I suspect I'm in the distinct minority among my peers, but I could be wrong; my age group was pretty much the first one that grew up playing (and writing) computer games. Put another way, I've been playing computer games (30+ years) longer than some of you have been alive. (I also was involved in professional computer game design for several years back in the early years of PC-based games [1981-85; see here [brucefwebster.com] and here [brucefwebster.com]], as well as writing columns on the subject and reviewing commercial computer games.)

    Still, most people in the 40s and 50s just don't have time for computer games. Between family, work, church/community and other activities (yardwork, household repairs, struggles to get to the gym, etc.), they typically don't have the amount of free time required by most modern computer games. I work out of a home office on a consulting basis, so unless I'm swamped by current engagements, I can easily block out several hours to spend on a game. However, there have been other times in my life when I've had a 'regular' job; during those times, I've gone months or years without playing a computer game for the reasons cited above.

    Another downside for older gamers is that the 'costs' of spending lots of time on games are higher--e.g., it can interfere with work (and income), can cause serious marital problems, and so on. I know a man in his early 30s whose marriage is undergoing severe stress largely because of his obsession with HalfLife 2. In my own case, I have from time to time simply thrown away games because I felt I was wasting too much time playing them and not enough time on other projects (books, etc.).

    My own preferences tend to be strategy/simulation games, including historical war games and large-scale strategy games (the Civ games and various space-based 4x [eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate] games). I tend to prefer turn-based games over real-time strategy (RTS) games, but have still spent time with the latter (e.g., LOTR: Battle for Middle Earth). I've played several RPGs (e.g., DungeonSiege, Neverwinter Nights, Freelancer) and even some MMORPGs (Earth and Beyond). While first-person shooter (FPS) games are not my first choice, I'll cheerfully play them if the subject matter is interesting; I've bought and played several of the Star Wars FPS games (Republic Commando, Battlefront I and II).

    Were I to design for 'grey gamers', I would probably focus on the following:

    • Design for short play cycles (30-60 minutes at a time); consider your competition to be an individual TV show.
    • Provide easy exit from the game and easy re-entry.
    • Emphasize analysis and thought over reflexes.
    • Avoid fiendishly difficult puzzles or tasks; we just don't have the frackin' time.
    • Allow saves (and restarts) at any point; same reason.
    • Design for PCs, not for game consoles

    Beyond that, I'd apply some of my own preferences [sourceforge.net] on game design:

    • Emphasize game design before eye candy.
    • Avoid "railroad" games (i.e., the player is stuck on the rails and can't get off).
    • Allow many paths and solutions, including ones you as the designer might not have thought of.
    • Avoid arbitrary roadblocks and limits (usually put in to make the designer's job easier).

    FWIW. ..bruce..

    • Were I to design for 'grey gamers', I would probably focus on the following:

      I'm not "grey" (27 years old), but you basically struck on all the points I want included in games I play. I would say that overall the key points you describe are ones make gaming more accessable at all mature age ranges. (focus on stragety rather then eye-candy and reflexes, etc)

    • Another downside for older gamers is that the 'costs' of spending lots of time on games are higher--e.g., it can interfere with work (and income), can cause serious marital problems, and so on. I know a man in his early 30s whose marriage is undergoing severe stress largely because of his obsession with HalfLife 2. In my own case, I have from time to time simply thrown away games because I felt I was wasting too much time playing them and not enough time on other projects (books, etc.).

      Yes, since I got e

  • At 53, I've been playing computer games since I sat at an VT52 about 30 years ago and saw the computer spit out, "You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully."

    Then came StarTrek -- on an cool new VT100! A capital 'E' was the Enterprise, a capital 'K' a Klingon ship, a '*' was a star, etc. Oh, and a capital 'S' was the dreaded SuperCommander, a Romulan super-ship. Ooooooo! :)

    Of course, it didn't stop th

  • Duke Nukem Forever better come out! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's a different experience, hearing the diabolical laugh of your sixty-something mother as the rocket-propelled grenade she fired hits you in the forehead. My parents played Mario on Nintendo late into the night while I was in college, later on they played all the way through Duke Nukem 3, and now I just hope that Forever comes out before they're too old and feeble for me to take revenge!
  • Well I guess I'd be one if I still had hair. I'll be 55 this year. I remember playing Pong on the old b/w tv when it first came out. The next clear memory I have is of playing a video game in Picadilly Circus in London about 1972 it was called UFO I think, it was just a centered space ship able to rotate and "shoot" at flying saucers. But it was a "real" video game. My first computer games were Mission Impossible and some other text based game that I accessed from a sequential tape drive. Now a days I
  • Who says they aren't marketing to the older Gamer? My 63 year old mother seems wuite content with the games on her PS2, Gamecube and Xbox and her subscription to WoW.

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