Games Less Engrossing Than Other Media?

The British Board of Film Classification recently released a study describing players' reactions to videogames. The synopsis of their findings makes for fascinating reading. "Gamers are starting to play at a younger age, even as the average age of gamers is increasing. Males and females differ greatly in taste in games, how long they play, and how involved they are in the gameplay. Negative press about a game significantly increases it's sales and many young gamers choose games based on word of mouth. Games provide a sense of achievement, unlike passive mediums like television. Active participation decreases the tendency to 'forget' your experiencing a fantasy vs. non-interactive visual mediums. Gamers find violence in television and movies more upsetting than violence in games. While parents agree that games should be regulated, some still consider the whole genre as 'kid's toys', even games that may include adult content." One of the most controversial findings is the assertion that games are less engrossing than other media, with players having less of an emotional connection to in-game events than the events in a book or movie. The Wonderland blog offers up the full report as well as commentary on their findings.

WoW not engrossing?

[Manos_Of_Fate]

One of the most controversial findings is the assertion that games are less engrossing than other media, with players having less of an emotional connection to in-game events than the events in a book or movie.

Obviously the words of someone who has never been ganked and camped by horde for 45 minutes.

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[sokoban]

And apparently nobody has ever stolen their cloudsong.

http://cloudsong.ytmnsfw.com/?0bc4392e4b6b6d3618e1 5e165215213f [ytmnsfw.com]

And they've never gotten minus fifty DKP.
http://onyserious.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com]

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[electrosoccertux]

And apparently nobody has ever stolen their cloudsong.

http://cloudsong.ytmnsfw.com/?0bc4392e4b6b6d3618e1 5e165215213f [ytmnsfw.com]

And they've never gotten minus fifty DKP.
http://onyserious.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com]

I don't know, depending on how much effort someone put into that, they very well may have been justified in being that angry. Regardless of whether or not it's a game, that guy stole something that took a lot of another player's time and energy to aquire. Appealing to the "it's a game" logic is foolish and an attempt to gloss over the time investment that person stole from another player; not to mention it backfires-- if it's just a game, why did he care enough to be such a dick to another player?

There's a

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[vic.tz]

Appealing to the "it's a game" logic is foolish and an attempt to gloss over the time investment that person stole from another player;

True... but at the same time, it's just a game.

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[Azarael]

I don't know if I'd call it engrossing as much as taking advantage of people's obsessive nature. I suppose it's the same as with people who need to purchase every season of a show they like so they can see every last episode.

Re:WoW not engrossing?

[HTH NE1]

I suppose it's the same as with people who need to purchase every season of a show they like so they can see every last episode.

As such a person, it is more that I want to see every single second of the episodes as opposed to the edited-for-more-commercials-in-syndication versions. I also like culture-referential humor, and my DVD collection is my reference material.

But I don't play WoW or similar games.

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[Azarael]

Still the same difference I think. Someone who is willing to wait sometimes hours to get into an area probably does so to see every second of the game. The lack of big lines probably wouldn't diminish many players need to do so.

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[endianx]

I agree. Though more so than MMORPGs, I find the Final Fantasy series in particular to be quite emotionally stimulating (makes me laugh, and almost cry). And fast paced FPSs (like Team Fortress Classic, as opposed to America's Army) were massive adrenaline rushes.

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[somersault]

The FPSes are more just for adrenaline and excitement though as you say.. books tend to get you more involved in the plight of the characters.. in a game you know that if you die then you can just respawn or load up your save.. I've never played any of the Final Fantasy series so I can't comment on that, but it does kinda make sense that you can be more involved in a book or movie, which usually exists for the storyline (unless it's some movie that's more about special effects or crap like that). Some games

Re:WoW not engrossing?

[twistedsymphony]

Obviously the words of someone who has never been ganked and camped by horde for 45 minutes.

There is a difference between engrossed and obsessed.

I believe the way they're using engrossed implies that people have more empathy for TV and movie characters then they do for video game characters. Probably because in a video game the gamer is the one making the decisions of the leading character, meaning in most games there is no major character in the game left for the gamer to empathize with.

Re:WoW not engrossing?

[vertinox]

I believe the way they're using engrossed implies that people have more empathy for TV and movie characters then they do for video game characters.

You can't tell me that you didn't cry when Sephiroth killed Aeris?

Or when Dogmeat always died in his useless suicidal charge...

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[DDLKermit007]

Thats not engrossed, you, are obsessed. That game came out how many years ago?

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[TempeTerra]

I was more annoyed than upset about Aeris - use a freakin' phoenix down. And don't give me that crap about only being 'knocked out' in battle.

For me though, it was the first two recruits in Cannon Fodder. Jools and Jops I think they were. I felt so responsible when I got those two brave wee guys killed :(

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

I'm not saying that such scenarios don't exist at all, but they're much harder to come by. Also I'd argue that Aris' death wasn't a game... it was a movie. I don't recall ever "playing" that part of the game... but I do remember watching that video clip.

RPGs like the Final Fantasies are somewhat of an exception, in some respects the game plays like a movie. The key is whether you pull in the media and use it like an extension of yourself, in which case you're in control of the actions and motivations or

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[Das Modell]

I didn't cry when Aeris died, but I was sad, the same way people are sad when something similiar happens in movies or books. As many fine games demonstrate, there's nothing in games as a medium that's preventing people from having an emotional connection. Far Cry and Grim Fandango are both video games, but whereas Grim Fandango gives me a strong emotional connection to the characters and events, Far Cry is just a B-grade action movie.

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[Killjoy_NL]

Yup I did cry when Aeris died, any game that makes me care so much for a pixelbuilt character on a screen is an engrossing game. No matter how long ago I played it.

I still get sad every time I hear the Aeris theme music *sniffle*

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[mcvos]

Or when Dogmeat always died in his useless suicidal charge...

A friend claims he managed to keep Dogmeat alive. He was upset that the sequel blindly assumed Dogmeat had died.

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[plasmacutter]

spot on. I've broken controllers and keyboards playing FPS games.. and i've spent days with aching hands from the intensity.

but as an aside i dont do WoW because their combat system blows (from red target designators on primarily red backgrounds with red spell effects to the concept of cooldowns in a pvp situation where split second reaction time counts).

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[grumbel]

WoW isn't engrossing, its addicting.

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[tibike77]

What do you mean ?
I find "addicting" to be a very cromulent word, one that really embiggens the English language... ;)

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[Yev000]

How is this "insightful"???

Just to state the obvious: Cocaine is addictive because you physically need it to the point of making life and death decisions...

WoW doesn't make people rob stores for game cards or hold up people at gunpoint to get their "fix" last time I checked.

Games are not addictive, just as TV is not addictive. It's simply a method of entertainment. Note that every person's taste and therefore type of entertainment required is different. Someone who enjoys games may be able to afford/liv

Re:WoW not engrossing?

[StarvingSE]

I would agree with the author's comments that games aren't as engrossing as a book or movie. Books and movies are obviously plot driven, and they aim to capture your interest from beginning to end. You read the book in order to learn more about (hopefully) interesting characters, and you continue reading because you care about what happens to them.

Games are a different beast. The point of a game is to actively become part of the plot, and not just a passive observer. To this end, game makers place the focus on the experience the player has, be it interacting with the virtual world, "fun factor," or immersive technologies, and less on actual story. However, I feel that now that we are coming to a time where game worlds can seem almost photographically real, developers will spend more resources on plot.

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[Das Modell]

How is the player's experience mutually exclusive with finding out what happens to interesting characters? RPGs and adventure games are just as plot-driven as books or movies.

well it's true

[Some_Llama]

"with players having less of an emotional connection to in-game events than the events in a book or movie."

Often times I have had a hard time getting to sleep after watching a movie, with re-enactments of Neo fighting agents or Golum chasing the ring rebounding in my mind.

No wait that never happened.. but I have had many a restless night dreaming of defusing a bomb in dust...

Many a broken mouse chucked at a wall after a lost round might disagree also...

Re:well it's true

[drinkypoo]

Amen to that. I've never dreamed a movie. I have dreamed of Tetris. And it doesn't even have a story. (I didn't dream I was playing tetris, the entire content of the dream was tetris.)

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[tepples]

I guess my point is, if you watched a particular movie two times a day for a wekk or so, you'd be dreaming about that too.

Is that what goes on in a household with a single digit year old?

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[drinkypoo]

Is that what goes on in a household with a single digit year old?

Only if you're a bad parent.

TV is not capable of raising children, but a lot of people try to use it for that...

Or put the way Michael Franti did (back in the Disposable Heroes days) - "TV is the only wet nurse that would create a cripple"

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[Mattintosh]

Same here.

I didn't have this problem when I was younger unless I was very ill. I had horrible fever dreams of Wrecking Crew where I was on a 747 made out of those blocks and Mario and Luigi were smashing them out from under me.

More recently (within the last 3 or 4 years), I've been having dreams about puzzle games. If I play Tetris (Tetris DS triggered it), then I dream Tetris. If I play Bejeweled, I dream Bejeweled (or Puzzle Quest, this past week). If I play Guitar Hero, I dream Guitar Hero. But I think I

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[fractoid]

If I play Tetris (Tetris DS triggered it), then I dream Tetris. If I play Bejeweled, I dream Bejeweled (or Puzzle Quest, this past week).

Totally with you here. :) Hell, I spent the whole time I was asleep last night DPSing in Deadmines, and I can't count the number of WSG games I've won while sleeping. :P

Also, the fever dream comment was interesting. I've always had really vivid gaming dreams when I've been sick, I guess it's because, being off work, I tend to spend the whole day playing games... Regardless, I've always seen dreaming about games as a sign that you're being fully immersed in the game world, and in my opinion you have to d

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[Tildeedy]

I agree, If you don't spend your day dreaming about it then it's not worth playing.

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[TempeTerra]

Sleeping, and presumably dreaming, is an important part of the learning process. You actually get a lot better at manual tasks and puzzle solving between the end of one day and the start of the next as your brain sorts and categorizes the things you've done that day. That's why when you're learning something new it's important to practice a little every day - you get the benefit of a night's extra learning as well as the learning the comes directly from practice.

I don't think there's anything unusual about

Lately it's been Katamari

[Nursie]

I used to suffer the tetris thing when I was a kid. Play it all day, dream it all night, suddenly find yourself in the bathroom in the morning, half asleep, trying to figure out how best to fit the soap into the sink and then laugh out loud at yourself.

Lately "katamari damacy", "we love katamari" and "me and my katamari" have done the same thing to me.

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[dj_tla]

I don't think it suggests OCD at all, I think most people are like this. I've been reading A Theory of Fun for Game Design [wikipedia.org] and it suggests that fun comes from grokking [reference.com] patterns in games. If you get to know the initial conditions and rules of a game, it seems only natural that you would run through simulations in your brain, conscious or not. Then, the next time you play the game, you do better, and have more fun because the game is rewarding you (with higher scores, more levels), and you can experience a

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[sorrydaijin]

Back when I used to have time to play games for obscene lengths, I dreamed of non-game events like trying to impress the girl I liked at the time but visualized in game graphics/ movements. Unfortunately, I was hooked on Pool of Radiance (the original) way back then, so these weren't exactly thrilling dreams, being that they were turn-based and looked really pixelated.

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[powerpants]

It's strange the way our brains gets calibrated to a certain pattern and start seeing it everywhere. With regard to Tetris, I remember driving down the street once and picturing how the buildings would fit together if I could rotate and stack them.

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[CogDissident]

So, can someone explain to me why the board of FILM is the so called authority on how engrossing games are when compaired to films?

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[LoverOfJoy]

It makes sense to me. In a game, my character may die a dozen times in the first couple hours I play it. But in the two hours I watch the movie, it's been 2 hours of living with them...and wanting them to succeed but having no power to make sure they do. That can be emotional. I've cried watching a good movie but never from playing a game. I may get frustrated playing a game. I may play it often enough that it sticks in my mind (even enough to dream about it) but the same could be said with some annoying so

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[Some_Llama]

"I have no emotional connection to some cheesy pop song or a tetris block but I've had both run through my mind while laying in bed whether I wanted to or not."

I don't know.. i'll grant my first post wasn't the best example but i feel accomplished when a pass a level, beat an online opponent, level up my mmorpg character..

When I look forward to playing a game or going to a lan party i associate it with feelings of happiness, and good times with friends, same with online play...

When I watched the movie Stars

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[grumbel]

### I don't know.. i'll grant my first post wasn't the best example but i feel accomplished when a pass a level, beat an online opponent, level up my mmorpg character..

True, but those are very simple emotions, when you have success you enjoy it, when you don't frustration follows. I think the point is that games have a hard time moving beyond those simple emotions. You don't need any connection to the game world at all to feel success or failure, you don't need to know the characters, like them, feel with t

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[Some_Llama]

Mario, Link, Freeman, Solid Snake, Rayman, final fantasy, etc...

Never seen anyone dress up as a video game character that they identified with?

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[stunt_penguin]

I thought that Half Life 2 made an excellent job of injecting some emotional content- like when Alyx gets caught on the roof, when you discover that Dr. Whassername (Rosen? whatever) is supposedly working for the other side, when Alyx is reunited with her dad, and, really, overall actually. You wander around this world looking at what it's become and it does move you a little each time you see things that hint at the state of the world and what's gone on. Oh, the cliffhanger at the end of Episode 1 was grea

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[Unionhawk]

...and a broken controler smashed against the floor after losing... anyway...In my opinion some games are not engrossing (racing, sports) Others... (First-Person Shooters, RPG's, Strategy... All of the good ones) are.

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[flewp]

Racing and sports games can be engrossing. While they may lack "characters" with traits and personalities you can identify with or plot lines, the word engrossing (as I understand it) simply means to take one's full attention. Racing sims surely require this. So do some sports games. Or at least, they can.

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[Unionhawk]

Racing and sports games can be engrossing. While they may lack "characters" with traits and personalities you can identify with or plot lines, the word engrossing (as I understand it) simply means to take one's full attention. Racing sims surely require this. So do some sports games. Or at least, they can.

Hmm... Maybe I had my definitions confused. I was thinking about "kill people" engrossing, but I guess you're right...

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[king-manic]

Some of the more engrossing games caused me to dream of them and fail to sleep even waking up early to rush to the game. Movies never did this except Dawn of the dead.

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[Hoi Polloi]

I took a break from BF1942 when I started dreaming about it.

I certainly find the violence in games like BF1942 much less disturbing than those shown in movies/TV. Maybe it is the fact that the guy I just killed disappears and his player is typing "Haha! Nice shot!". Sort of takes away the semblance of reality.

Is this surprising?

[CyberLord Seven]

Active participation decreases the tendency to 'forget' your experiencing a fantasy vs. non-interactive visual mediums.

So, we don't forget that we are playing a game when we are playing. Add to that the immersion of a good novel or movie and this seems rather obvious.

I've been immersed in game play but never to the level of a good book. Plus, the images in my mind from a good novel often exceed what is available even on todays SFX laden screens and this is a no-brainer.

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[fredgiblet]

So conceivably books have a greater effect then games? So then we should possibly restrict the sale and use of books containing horrific violence to people under the age of 18 right? So now what books can we think of that contain horrific amounts of violence...hmmm...books containing amazing amounts of violence and depravity...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible ?

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[CyberLord Seven]

From todays Examiner, April 25, 2007, page three, there is an article entitled "Debated memoir's author agrees with book's replacement" by Brian Foley:

Mark Mathabane, whose book "Kaffir Boy" was pulled form eight-grade classrooms at an intermediate school four weeks ago due to a passage about men paying boys for sex, said the book's original version is inappropriate for middle school students.

I'm not sure what your point was but I do think it is necessary to restrict what children have access to.

I'm no fa

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[fredgiblet]

So do I, I was just pointing out that a lot of people who go into conniption fits about violent games are also the same people who would encourage children to read the bible, one of the most violent and depraved books in existance.

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[MBGMorden]

Add to that the immersion of a good novel or movie and this seems rather obvious.

I've been immersed in game play but never to the level of a good book. Plus, the images in my mind from a good novel often exceed what is available even on todays SFX laden screens and this is a no-brainer.

Whenever somebody claims how much better books are than movies, or in this case a games, it always brings to mind the scene from Madagascar where Alex is yelling at Marty "THIS is the fun side!", after which Marty builds a miniature bar/club on his side :).

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[CyberLord Seven]

I never claimed books were "better" than movies or video games. I freely indulge in all. I was just agreeing that video games are not very engrossing. That because we are actively engaged in the process we will not be as immersed in the story as we will be in a good novel.

Also, I left movies out of my original post, but in reality they are more engrossing than video games as well. This is because a well told story in any medium will engage the mind of the audience. Books and movies have a LONG history

This Just in!

[AbsoluteXyro]

British Board of Film Classification confirms what gamers have known for years! More at 11.

Re:

[shoptroll]

And this news is at least a week old too! Digging through the backlog are we editors? ;)

Ever chat with someone who's watched FireFly?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Games provide a sense of achievement, unlike passive mediums like television.

Ever chat with someone who's watched FireFly? It seems the more episodes they've watched, the more they feel they've achieved something. (Weird.)

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[Spudtrooper]

Well, it isn't often that you can watch an entire TV series in one sitting.

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[NewbieProgrammerMan]

It seems the more times they've watched the episodes, the more they feel they've achieved something.

There, fixed that typo for ya. :P

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[m0rm3gil]

If they'd managed to watch any second season episodes then they'd be justified.

Promtion due

[rambag]

The British Board of Film Classification recently released a study describing players' reactions to videogames.

Maybe the BBFC will finally get that promotion to Major Obvious, they have been sitting at captain for way to long.

Problem solved?

[Applekid]

So now that games are less engrossing than other media, can we please stop blaming them for society's violence ills?

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[Megatronium]

'Fraid not. If we stop blaming video games, what's next? Stop blaming movies, TV, and rock 'n roll? We can't do that! Eventually we'll run out of people to blame except the parents...

Sad. :(

long live infocom

[mgabrys_sf]

Retro-geek or not, this is why I still miss Infocom games.

The full report is better than the synopsis

[roystgnr]

Games are less engrossing than other media. Games are also more engrossing than other media. When you're comparing two categories as broad as "games" and "other media", almost any statement you can make will be true for some examples in each category. Trying to lump "games" and "other media" together in some sort of average sense to compare the two is ridiculous.

I'm sure that "players having less of an emotional connection to in-game events than the events in a book or movie" is exactly what happens when the game is Doom 3 and the movie is The Godfather; the opposite happens when the movie is Doom 3 and the game is Deus Ex. In cases where you might expect a game, film, and book to be roughly comparable, I can think of examples where each form of media was the most emotional experience of the three.

Glancing over the complete report [bbfc.co.uk], though, it's not as trite as the synopsis makes it sound. Here's an excellent example from the report of a game player being moved, to which the report author commented, "It is clear from this account that games can be very emotionally affecting."

"There's a point at the end of [Shadow of the Colossus] where everything you think is going to happen has happened, but it hasn't, and the horse is killed in a rock fall. It's just devastating... The impact it has on you. This has been your only friend and companion who has helped you and protected you. I really didn't see it coming. He just dies, then you are alone but you have to keep going. Nothing else can do that. There are countless extraordinary books that are extraordinarily moving, but they can't do that. Films and books can't make you lose anything. You can read about someone else's loss, you can empathise in a book, but a book can't ever take anything from you. But that game took my horse from me. He was my horse. He was my friend by that stage!

In that game if I wanted to get from here to here I had a horse and that was nice and quick and I could canter and jump over things and now I can't do that anymore. So in a basic, mechanical way something has been taken from me.

There are lots of tragic horse deaths in all kinds of films and books but... in a film everything that happens next is pre-calculated so the music will come in on a particular second and you will have your attention moved to something else, and your feelings are then manipulated and extrapolated by what happens next. In a game, I stood there looking down at where he had fallen. Nothing is going to happen until I make it happen. I could have stood there for the rest of my life. I could have put the game down and never played it again. Or started again and tried to make it not happen, which it
wouldn't. That changes the character of the experience."

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[MeanderingMind]

I'd post my own emotional moments from video games, but I'd be beating a dead horse.

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[MBCook]

This is how I feel. It seems like so many people are stuck in the Pong/Super Mario Brothers age. Shadow of the colossus was great. There were points in the game there were these huge, docile beasts, and you had to go kill them. At a point in the game you really start to realize that.

There are games like Final Fantasy VII where even if you don't think it's the greatest game in the world you want to know what happens to the characters. The Final Fantasy games are rather linear, but that's because they are te

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[grumbel]

### There's a point at the end of [Shadow of the Colossus] where everything you think is going to happen has happened, but it hasn't, and the horse is killed in a rock fall. It's just devastating...

One huge problem that video games have when it comes to such emotional scenes is that video games are not 'final', if stuff goes wrong I can just retry, load and older savegame and things like that. Often it is simply not clear if an event went the way it did because I did a mistake or because it is the only way

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[irc.goatse.cx troll]

In WingCommanderIII for example when the Behemoth gets destroyed, the first thing I did was to try again, then again and then give up and let the story continue, the emotional scene didn't really work because as a player I was expecting to succeed, but couldn't. Similar issue in The Longest Journey when Emma gets shoot, I did load a old savegame to try if there was a way around it, well, there wasn't.

You don't want to know how many attempts I made at the first part of Mega Man X before finally letting mysel

Homeworld

[ckotchey]

Not engrossing? Depends on the game. When I played Homeworld, and jumped back to my Homeworld in chapter 3 to find it destroyed! How can you NOT be engrossed by the rest of the plotline! I haven't ever been so hooked into a game's storyline.

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[drinkypoo]

I haven't ever been so hooked into a game's storyline.

And I've never been so turned off by a game's control scheme or its difficulty ramp. Homeworld is one of those games where you're doddling along just fine and then BLAM! The game is suddenly twice as hard as it had just been. I bought it, and it now sits in the bottom of a crate. This is why I had to stop buying games before, er, testing them.

Feelings that aren't provided

[PhetusPolice]

One of the most controversial findings is the assertion that games are less engrossing than other media, with players having less of an emotional connection to in-game events than the events in a book or movie.

When you watched Independence Day, did you cry when the President's wife died? No, because the movie wasn't made that way. Games are pretty similar too, as the action usually takes priority over character connections. But hell, my heart warmed up when Ness was having flashbacks when he got one of his

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Engrossing measured how?

[redelm]

It might be true that games are not very engrossing for a random person. It takes some investment to appreciate the oeuvre. Some movie/novel genres are also very much a matter of taste.

However, for the true devotee (games or chick pr0n romance novels), the material is _extremely_ engrossing. Addictive in many cases.

It is difficult to measure engrossment between different individuals, or across a population. The only [superficial] measurement I would propose is price/hour entertainment. Stand-alone gam

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[fractoid]

It's interesting the way you suggest cost per hour as a measure of immersiveness or 'engrossment'. That's one of the justifications I used when I started playing WoW - sure, it costs AU$20/month, but if I get 10 hours of entertainment a week (a conservative estimate, back when I was single it was more like 40+ hours) that makes it one of the cheapest passtimes available on a per-hour basis. A list of things I do regularly:

$20+/hr: Dinner and a movie with teh GF (I'm old-fashioned, it would be cheaper if I

I don't know ...

[everphilski]

I'd agree with respect to every FPS I've ever played. I could put them down whenever I needed to. And to this day, I really have no strong urge to play them unless its at a LAN party.

Everquest, on the other hand, still has a soft spot in my heart even though I'm not playing it (actively) anymore. From time to time - maybe 3 times a year - I find myself typing my credit card to reactivate my 'habit'. Bad crack? Engrossing world? You decide.

They're kind of right...

[Talgrath]

In many games, the storyline is not the main draw. Sports games, puzzle games, simulations and others are all games that are easy to not become emotionally involved in; I'd compare them to action movies or sports games, you're involved to a point but you're ultimately still fine with doing other things while playing the game. But some games are so immersive that I think it would be more difficult (compared to a movie or TV show) to not become engrossed in the game. Roleplaying games like Final Fantasy, c

yeah right

[zeromusmog]

Anyone who thinks games can't be engrossing haven't had their multimillion space dollar internet space ship blown up by the fagwads in another alliance that are you and all your buddies' eternal sworn internet enemy! Or spent a couple of hours hunting him down and returning the favor. ;)

This brings up a point, though. EvE Online is less popular than other MMORPGs partly because it's a game where death matters and you lose time and effort when you die. BECAUSE it is so engrossing and tries to be less of a mi

'Engrossiness' is hard in gameplay

[grumbel]

Games can be as engrossing as a movie thanks to cutscenes, they however will lack heavily on interactivity when they rely to much on them (see JRPGs, something like Dreamfall, etc.). The really hard part isn't to make games engrossing, but to make them engrossing in actual gameplay. I think games have still a long way to go till they actually manange that. One large problem is AI, Alyx in HalfLife2 for example worked great for most part since she was heavily pre-scripted, the normal squad members on the oth

just perhaps

[hurfy]

it depends on what games vs what other media?

I suppose on the whole maybe.

I don't find minesweeper particularly engaging but my race games and MMO on the other hand...

Of course i find very little to compete with the games on TV as it is as sporadic as my games. The TV show is usually just as engrossing as a race in Flatout2....and they both only go for about 5-10 before being interruppted :(

Many games are intense during play but not really memorable or anything to make a lasting connection. FPS for example,

ICO? SotC?

[deathtopaulw]

anyone who says games aren't engrossing has not played the truly great games
there are very few storylines as concise and yet so incredibly deep and meaningful as ICOs
my god, in that game it's not that you care about losing the game if Yorda is captured by the horrifying black spirity things,
it's that you don't want HER to be caught.

there's a part near the end where you're about to escape, but the bridge you're on starts retracting from both sides
she's on the castle's side, you're on the escaping side
honestly, the second I could move after the quick little cinematic I ran and jumped to her
AWAY from the exit
because I cared about her
I had no idea if that was the correct "game" thing to do
I just reacted

of course, that's what you're supposed to do
but no game has manipulated me like that emotionally
(it wasn't like a crying "I want to be with her!" thing, either because that's not what ICO and Yorda's relationship in that game is about... it was just... the natural reaction)

Games are engrossing but in a different way. IMO:

[prolene]

Because at higher difficulty levels the gameplay becomes very demanding, and all its graphical and sound impact is not felt anymore because it is replaced with the fear of losing to the next wave or falling during an attack on the enemy. I have found out, by observing myself, that studying after a burst(2-3 hours) of gameplay, leads to reduced concentration on my studies. I am studying to become a doctor and i often find TV more relaxing then Gaming, but the addiction to interactivity has to be satisfie

why compare?

[OldZombie]

Before I even put this let me say i am not completely sure about whether this is true or not but for the sake of discussion we agree that games are less engrossing compared to movies/television.

1. Why do we expect the same thing from all types of media the comparison makes me think imagine a person who loves dancing says Oh dancing is much more physical and can almost be part of exercising (some of them at least) but reading books or watching movies is not, does that mean reading books is bad? No its a di

From the department of duh

[MMaestro]

gamers appear to forget they are playing games less readily than film goers forget they are watching a film because they have to participate in the game for it to proceed. They appear to non-games players to be engrossed in what they are doing, but, they are concentrating on making progress, and are unlikely to be emotionally involved

Of course games are less engrossing than movies. The time, money, effort, everything else that goes towards setting up the atmosphere, is MASSIVE compared to ANYTHING video ga