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United States Entertainment Games

Mod Chip Raids In Perspective 186

GamePolitics has extensive coverage on the aftermath of this past week's Federal raids on suspected modchippers. There were numerous negative reactions to the action here on the site, and your comments were not alone. Many commenters at the site Dvorak Uncensored expressed similar frustration and disbelief at the federal government's priorities. As stated on the site's original post: "Are you kidding me? With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great." Meanwhile, one of the raided men is now without any electronics whatsoever as a result of the search and seizure, and feeling very much alone. Another man has (more seriously) been barred from seeing his girlfriend and daughter, and has been reduced to sleeping in his car. As he puts it: "I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, rather than going after the people that are responsible for the bootlegs being available."
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Mod Chip Raids In Perspective

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  • by karnal ( 22275 ) on Saturday August 04, 2007 @03:33PM (#20115597)
    Because of what happened Im not allowed to see my girlfriend and our 4 month old daughter, and last night, I slept in my car They took my life away.

    Not sure that that means that some judge and jury said "you can't see your gf and daughter" - just sounds like the situation caused some tension???

    Sen-Sational!
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Drakkoon ( 857582 )
      I think it has more to do with the fact that the warrant was for his grandmother's house, while the mod chipping stuff was at his girlfriend's house, where he willingly led the feds to so they could search. So it might have to do with that. The small article at game politics does sound very sensationnal, but the whole transcript at Xbox Scene didn't feel that way.
      • by sgant ( 178166 )
        OK, what am I missing? What difference does does it make who's house is what in relation to not being able to see his girlfriend and kid?

        It didn't say anything in his blog about being ordered by a judge not being able to see his family...he just says he can't. Where are his GF and kid staying at the moment? Can't he stay there? No other place in the world he can stay? No friends? No other family? Her family?

        Or is this him trumping up his situation, making it sound worse than it is for sympathy from the Net
  • by Threni ( 635302 )
    > With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be
    > cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great."

    There's nothing immoral about selling drugs (unless you think we should ban alcohol and tobacco, or that we've criminalised the right drugs and that growing, selling, buying and consuming cannabis somehow requires punishment), but making it possible for people to trivially pirate software is an area I believe to
    • There's nothing immoral about selling drugs (unless you think we should ban alcohol and tobacco, or that we've criminalised the right drugs and that growing, selling, buying and consuming cannabis somehow requires punishment), but making it possible for people to trivially pirate software is an area I believe to be a little more grey. Also, as someone who's recently been burgled and had his phone stolen, if by `unlocking` phones you're talking about changing the IMEI number so that stolen phones can be reus

    • Then by your line of reasoning, sellers and buyers of date rape pills should be quite the serious offense. Yet, you say there's nothing immoral about it? "Drugs" covers a variety of things, but in all cases, they refer specifically to what's known as federally controlled substances. Marijuana is still one of them, but it's slowly coming off the list. But it's not the only substance that falls under the monkier of "drug."

      There are behaviors that are detrimental to society, and there are behaviors that are de
    • by Buran ( 150348 )
      "Also, as someone who's recently been burgled and had his phone stolen, if by `unlocking` phones you're talking about changing the IMEI number so that stolen phones can be reused after they've been reported stolen"

      Not at all. It's a reference to unlocking phones so that they can be used with any carrier, not the one that provided the phone. That is explicitly legal under US law.
    • by LKM ( 227954 )
      Sell Heroin -> Get somebody addicted

      Sell a Mod chip -> let somebody play an imported game

      Grey alright.
  • I don't think the end users should be the people gettig in trouble. To use a not so uncommon analogy- this is just like raiding the home of and locking up the crack head that has been spending all his money on a hopeless addiction rather than ging after to SOB that is making tens of thousands of dollars a month supporting addicts addictions and making the illegal substance available in the first place. Think about it-- you make something that normally costs $50-$60 available for free after making some simpl
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 )
      The DMCA pretty much says that you don't really own hardware anymore. You just allow the manufacturer to store it in your custody, and in exchange you may use it...
  • by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Saturday August 04, 2007 @03:48PM (#20115691) Homepage
    "I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, ..."

    As long as people with money have more influence over those who make laws than people without money, the system will continue to represent the interests of those who have money. Look at the rejection of the justice system of allowing people on welfare to object to random searches of their houses; that's a rather large difference from what the US constitution has to say on the matter, but it is done to serve the interests of those who pay taxes against those who lack the ability (for whatever reason) to pay taxes. MPAA and RIAA crackdowns and suing actions (including those against the Swedes in their own country via the US gov't!) are similar reflections of the concept that money is power, not personal choice.

    If you wish to not be in a situation where money decides power, move to a country with a representative democracy, where the representatives are purely chosen via 1 vote per 1 person, and where lobbying money is not allowed.
    • If you wish to not be in a situation where money decides power, move to a country with a representative democracy, where the representatives are purely chosen via 1 vote per 1 person, and where lobbying money is not allowed.
      Which country that has soundly rejected crony capitalism [wikipedia.org] is currently taking refugees from the United States crony capitalism regime?
    • If you wish to not be in a situation where money decides power, move to a country with a representative democracy, where the representatives are purely chosen via 1 vote per 1 person, and where lobbying money is not allowed.

      And which country would this be? And when will the US invade it for 'harboring/training/aiding/abetting terrorists'?

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        How about the United Kingdom?
        What you call "the lobby system", we call "cash for questions" and it is a crime.
        Most recently, where there was any question that money may have bought political favours (the cash-for-honours scandal), the police pulled in Tony Blair and half his cabinet for questioning under oath.
        Sadly, I think many Americans could not even imagine the police questioning Bush over the Rove affair, or misrepresenting facts to the UN, or any of the many other scandals I find it difficult to ke
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by quanticle ( 843097 )
          No thanks. I would rather not move to a country that has 4 security cameras for every person. Heck you guys are even adding capabilities that allow the cameras to talk back [dailymail.co.uk]. It just seems a bit Orwellian...
        • Sadly, I think many Americans could not even imagine the police questioning Bush over the Rove affair, or misrepresenting facts to the UN, or any of the many other scandals I find it difficult to keep up with on that side of the pond.

          No, the bit about hauling Clinton up in front of the Senate to answer the charges of lying under oath pretty much squashed any president getting hauled up to answer for anything.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ravenshrike ( 808508 )
          Good god. No crime was committed in the "Rove Affair",better known as the Plame Affair, although there was the travesty of sending a staff official to jail over not remembering the exact fucking date of a, to him, relatively unimportant phone call that occurred at least 8-16 months ago(Don't know exact span of time). End of discussion, unless all of you assholes suddenly have eidetic memories.
    • by Kjella ( 173770 )
      Look at the rejection of the justice system of allowing people on welfare to object to random searches of their houses; that's a rather large difference from what the US constitution has to say on the matter, but it is done to serve the interests of those who pay taxes against those who lack the ability (for whatever reason) to pay taxes.

      Not having a clue what you were referring to, I started doing some research. I assume you mean the decision by the 9th Circuit by 2-1 split and denied en banc hearing of th
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by westlake ( 615356 )
      As long as people with money have more influence over those who make laws than people without money, the system will continue to represent the interests of those who have money.

      I'll take it as a safe bet that owning an XBox 360 or PS3 makes you are one of the people who have money. Especially if you are willing to chance taking a soldering iron to a $400 appliance.

      But neither would I be be surprised to learn that your mutual fund or 401(K) retirement plan has substantial investments in Microsoft, Sony, an

      • Lobbying exists in every political system. In the American system it is simply more of them.

        You had a typo. Fixed it for ya. Easy mistake.
  • Feds must love going after suspects of crimes related to technology; they can justify seizing everything the person has for the flimsiest reason. If they're lucky, they even get to auction off the lot.

    And why the hell are modchips illegal? If someone's committing sizable copyright infringement, you can already nail them for something. You don't need a redundant law that criminalizes the guy who wanted to see if his X-Box could run Linux.
    • Cops are so blind, money is worthless, made from thin air, and they are too dumb to see the federal reserve
      is making trillions from thin air. But thats ok, they get paid by the govt, they wont arrest their masters.

      • Money is simply a centralized system of relative worth, ergo money is always made out of thin air. Before it was based upon the gold standard, but at the end of the day that's a useless metric as the supply of gold is finite and the actual money itself is still just a means of agreed upon exchange. Unless you'd see us using the direct barter system which works oh so well.
      • Right, money is worthless; that's why you exchange it for your food, gasoline, clothing, car(s), kids' toys or hell, let's just get right to the point, almost anything that is physically made. Money is just a way of bartering goods or services in an indirect way; you get money by doing work or by selling something and then you exchange it for a good or service you want. Let's get real here, if money doesn't matter to you then try living in the US without it for a year; we'll see how far you get. Unless y
  • It's my hardware, I can plug whatever I want into it. I can have other people do this for me. It is my hardware, I can use it as a doorstop, I can flush it down the toilet, I can light it on fire. The companies may be able to entitle themselves to software restrictions (DMCA encryption laws etc.), but when you come right down to it its just a hunk of metal and silicon. If the guy in the article was really just installing modchips, then I don't see why this warrents ANY law enforcement actiSDFwesfwefwe *NO
  • hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld.gmail@com> on Saturday August 04, 2007 @04:16PM (#20115853) Homepage
    "Are you kidding me? With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great."

    Because people can't be concerned about more than one thing at once. While I can sympathize with the thought behind this, the argument "they shouldn't enforce crime X until they've completely eradicated crime Y" is a ridiculous one.
  • This is Dumb. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hklingon ( 109185 ) on Saturday August 04, 2007 @06:03PM (#20116499) Homepage
    There is something seriously wrong here. I'm not sure that no wrong was done, but I'm also sure that there were better things Federal Agents could have been doing.

    I'm not really a gamer, but I have to say using an original XBox (cheaply acquired, second hand, pawn, etc) as a network media front end for something like MythTV [mythtv.org] is pretty awesome... This isn't really possible without modifcations. I'm not interested in playing games.. but what I am interested in is a cheap media center box with decent TV out capability. That is one Really Awesome, Non-Infringing use.

    I don't really think any of the analogies fit, either. It is what it is, which is not necessarily used for game piracy (though probably is some significant percentage of the time). On the one hand you can say it is like installing feature X in your car to get more horsepower. Well, that'll make your car go faster... which is potentially illegal. I mean your stock Geo is perfectly capable of moving along at any set speed limit.. so any modification to go faster is intended to break the speed limit. ... It doesn't really fit either, but I would bet the situation could have been solved with a conversation, perhaps an interview at the station, etc.

    However, that would require an intelligent and thoughtful analysis of the situation: the parties involved, the scope and scale of the crime, etc. Apparently the folks in charge here here were either intellectually incapable of that or Conditioned to Obey(tm). Either way it is scary, and that is probably the intention.

    I feel sorry for the folks involved. Probably, on the whole, just nerds like us in the wrong place at the wrong time. One looses one's stuff for an inexcusably long time and one is presumed guilty. If one is lucky one gets to be a media poster child on some scale about the "Dangers of XYZ". I would hope these folks can truly get a trial with a jury of their peers AND that the judge doesn't force the omission of "irrelevant facts" like "there were no pirated games found at the home". I would love to see this type of thing crushed by Jury Nullification. (If you ever want out of Jury Duty go up to the prosecutor, lean in, and whisper 'I know all About Jury Nullification [wikipedia.org]').

    Consider the BS one has to go through for simple things involving the government such as DMV tag renewals, tickets for various minor offenses, property tax, etc and then consider the crap these folks will have to endure, probably for years, over a mod chip. This is dumb.

  • good publicity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Saturday August 04, 2007 @07:06PM (#20116935) Homepage Journal
    Things like having everything taken away from you is good publicity for those who wish to prevent an action. Why pirate software if you might go bankrupt for doing so. Is it worth risking your family to play a game? Is it worth doing drugs if you can lose everything?

    So these stories play right into the hands of people who push these kinds of actions. Detainment and confiscation without due process is a very powerful method of enforcing will upon the masses. Stories such as this allow those who wish to oppress to succeed.

    What is unfortunate is that we fight fear with fear. We think laws are unjust because it causes those who break the laws to suffer. This method of fighting injustice does not work because sometimes in order to enforce a law people must suffer.

    So why do not have the courage to fight from basic principles. We cannot take a persons stuff away without a conviction of a crime by his peers. We cannot take a persons freedom without probable cause and timely due process. We cannot say that person is a witch, and then kill them knowing full well no jury will convict us. At least in the US, we were founded on the principle that we have inherent rights, and that those rights were given to us by our creator, though it seems that some people believe, especially in the US administration, only Americans were given those rights, or perhaps they do not believe in a creator, even though in their cowardice they claim to.

    I think that some people want it all. They are cowards who are perfectly happy to have others suffer without due process, but when it happens to them they whine to the media. Get used to it. The congress is afraid of being called traitors, that they are further increasing the power of the government to take whatever they wish from the people without due process. This little mod chip thing is small potatoes, and meaningless. The power was given freely by the republican representatives of the people.

  • "Are you kidding me? With drug dealers everywhere, murder, porous borders, terrorism the Feds are concerned about game mods?? Holy crap. Next I supposed they will be cracking heads over unlocked phones. Great."

    ICE - US Customs and Immigration Enforcement - employs 15,00.
    CPB - US Customs and Border Protection - Including Border Patrol - 44,000

    Law enforcement has the resources to multi-task. The FBI alone has a budget of $6 billion. "Getting your priorites straight" does not reqiure handing out a lifetime

    • No, but I believe that the Founding Fathers viewed copyright with a little less criminality than we do today. Remember, printers and printing houses in the Colonies (and subsequently the US) were thumbing their noses at the draconian copyright restrictions the Crown put on books... and by deliberately defying that unhealthy restriction (what could be considered now as "pirating books" by the copyright moguls), US printers were in effect, forcing an old stodgy system to acknowledge that for a society to gro
  • Excuse me, but these seem rather polemic rants. I do not see any perspective or defense of the raids.

    There _is_ a case to be made: modchips are probably the rate-limiting step in unauthorized gamecopyings. Gaming is a very big industry (more revenue than movies), so the losses are likely substantial. Perhaps ~$1000 per modchip. Going after the copiers is far more difficult and more invasive since anyone with a burner could copy. Far fewer can burn modchips.

    I also see no discussion of how modchips ar

    • by Mr2001 ( 90979 )

      Gaming is a very big industry (more revenue than movies), so the losses are likely substantial. Perhaps ~$1000 per modchip.

      You're assuming that everyone with a mod chip, on average, uses it to play twenty copied games that he otherwise would have paid $50 for? Hilarious.

      I also see no discussion of how modchips are a blantant violation of copyright (derivative works) as well as being against the DMCA.

      That could be because they're not derivative works (unless they incorporate someone else's copyrighted code) and the DMCA is one of the worst laws ever passed.

      • You're assuming that everyone with a mod chip, on average, uses it to play twenty copied games that he otherwise would have paid $50 for? Hilarious.

        I have about 80 games at $20-$75 CND (most were $29.95) a piece easily makes it about $2800 of games for PS2. I have about $500 for the DS, $300 for the Ps3, $140 for me wii. I'm on the upper end of the consumer market. I have a friend who is in the industry and his collection dwarfs mine. Most of my peer group has about 1/2 what I do. So it's sort of reasonable
      • by redelm ( 54142 )
        Yes, I suspect the relatively few people with modchips use them heavily. 20 games doesn't seem unlikely.

        Are you claiming the modchips are "cleanroom" REd? I very much doubt that's worth the effort or even feasible given the lack of documentation. Most likely, the modchips are patched OEM ROM code. Much easier to identify and bypass the security checks. However, this is easy to prove one way or the other.

      • After considerable reading and thinking, I've changed my mind on the DMCA. While I'm always in favor of avoiding new laws and letting traditional laws and precedents expand to cover new technology, there are times when they cannot and new laws are required to stop undesireable activities that new technolgy has created.

        Prohibitions against wiretap are an early example. You can bet the FBI was none too pleased to lose their technological capability. The DMCA appears to be another example. Different people

  • Nearly everyone in the world does something that some corporate group is uphappy with. Some end up legislated others get leaned on through other methods. The more small niches are made uncomfortable the more people become aware of what is going on. As a whole people are freakin lazy, we dont care what is going on around us as long as it doesnt effect us directly. Hopefully in the future they will setup checkpoint searches for people crossing the boarder for cheap meds, raid homes that backup recorded tv

The sooner all the animals are extinct, the sooner we'll find their money. - Ed Bluestone

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