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PlayStation (Games)

Lair Review 136

Posted by Zonk from the i-want-to-apologize-to-my-dragon dept.
Nothing disappoints me more than having my expectations met. I managed to see The Matrix without knowing what to expect, and as a result it was a fine moviegoing experience. Lair, one of the first in a series of high profile PlayStation 3 games due out this year, met every expectation I had when I picked up the controller. If you haven't been paying attention to games sites of late ... that's bad. Pushed for time and under pressure from higher ups at Sony, Factor 5 has poorly rehashed the same formula that made for a couple of very playable GameCube games. The difference? Lair is, in some places, literally unplayable. It's disappointing, and a frustrating way to begin my relationship with the PS3. Read on for my thoughts on Lair, and what might have been.
  • Title: Lair
  • Developer/Publisher: Factor 5 / Sony
  • System: PlayStation 3
  • Genre: Flight Shooter
  • Score: 1/5 - This game is unfinished/unplayable. It is not worth the trouble of purchasing, or renting.
The World of Asylia

Before you ever enter into combat, before the game proper begins, Lair displays a lot of promise. As Roan, you play the part of a dragon rider standing as guardian over a theocratic civilization called Asylia in the northern part of the world. The globe has been torn apart by geological instability, and the only other real bastion of humanity left in the world is your technology-using neighbors to the south. They've been having difficulties you haven't, though, and the game starts amid a conflict between your culture and the Mokai ultimately spurred on by scarce resources.

As the game progresses, we get hints of deeper elements to the story. The two groups are not mono-cultures; there are factions on both sides manipulating events to their own ends. Some of the voice acting isn't bad and while the plot itself isn't the most original tale ever told, it's competently woven. Julian Eggebrecht was the writer for the game, and the same hand that guided storytelling successfully in the Rogue Squadron games does a fine job here.

The game's attempt to evoke a place is greatly helped by the fact that it's visually stunning. It's an old saw now that this generation is no longer 'next-', but screenshots really don't do the game justice. Seeing the dragons in motion is a treat, and the digital actors are better than average. The landscapes really stand out as well, with everything from craggy seascapes to verdant pastures beautifully rendered by the PlayStation's raw horsepower. One early level has you facing down opponents while flying around a massive rock tower, which itself features pieces that are turning in place. It's a complicated environment, but thanks to the detailed graphics it's an easy one to understand. Whatever else should be said about the game, it's important to note just how beautiful Lair is.

The Problems: Everything Else

The reason, of course, that it's important to note that ... is that is just about the only nice thing I can say about the game. I moved past the controls introduction stage, and played through the first level, with no problems. I fought some dragons, killed 'em, landed and slaughtered some troops, and everything was good. There were little things that bugged me, but I assumed it was just because I was new to the controls. So I pressed on.

Bam. Immediately in the next stage, I started hating the experience of playing Lair. The fundamental elements of playing the game are simply poorly executed. That first level, which allowed me the chance to fly up close to dragon opponents, was the best possible light for the game's incredibly weak 'lock on' system. At any range, the vague red glow - which is the title's only indication you've locked onto a target - is essentially invisible. Your best bet is to continuously hold down the lock on button and fire repeatedly. I found that ... occasionally ... hits enemies while in the air. The alternative, free firing at your enemies, is essentially not an option. They're either far enough away that they're dots on the screen, or up close and moving too quickly to draw a bead.

The way you control your steed has drawn the most frustration from critics. Indeed, the PlayStation 3's motion control system is incredibly unsatisfying here. I regularly found myself tilting the controller hard left, only to see my dragon happily smash into a wall. A few times when I tilted left or right the thing would actually go in the opposite direction, which would seem to defeat the point of having the player provide input in the first place. In short: it only sometimes works. Given that this is the very first thing you do in the game (turn left, or right, or fly up), and that the gimmick hinges on one of the back-of-the-box PS3 features, I would have figured this to be a mandatory 'get it right' situation.

Instead, the control experience feels nothing short of 'mushy'. Above and beyond turning, any attempt to complete a 'special move' has a very low chance of success. In order to do a 180 the player is instructed to pull back sharply with the controller in an upwards movement. I think that motion resulted in my dragon executing such a turn only twice in the time I spent playing the game. Other ways that my dragon interpreted that command include: ignoring it, turning slowly in one direction or another, diving, rising, and then diving again. My personal favorite reaction to that controller input was 'speed way up', which invariably ended up with my dragon and I slamming into a wall or enemy.

The title's showpiece stage, the conflict between two armies on a bridge, has been used at numerous events to highlight the game's features. Instead, for me, it was where the game turned from a title I was struggling to enjoy to a game I was actually angry that I had to keep playing. You're constantly bombarded by new objectives, and your only means of ascertaining the location of these targets is a big blunt arrow. It's just as unhelpful as it sounds, and can easily result in blameless failure as you go on a futile hunt for 'those guys you just saw' in the thousandth cutscene this level. Not only does the game remove your ability to choose what you're doing by making you rush back and forth across the map, but once you're there you are forced into solving the problem a specific way. "Dark Dragons" have to be killed via the horrible wave the controller back and forth minigame. Giant bulls must be slain by waving the controller up and down vertically in another (equally unfun) minigame.

The whole experience is disappointing and (ultimately) kind of degrading. We as consumers are left with the distinct impression that we're not entirely playing Factor 5's game. Having played Rogue Squadron titles before, I know for a fact that they can deliver a tightly tuned control scheme and a satisfying flight/shooter experience. They're hardly blameless, of course, but you have to look at what's changed since those halcyon GameCube days. What's changed is, of course, their new backers.

Conclusions

I really wanted to like this game. I set my expectations (mentioned above) very, very, very low for this title. I figured that if I assumed the game would be utter crap going into it, there was almost no way I could be disappointed. Instead, Lair precisely met my dialed in crap setting. Beyond the first few levels the opponents (who are not hampered by the game's poor interface) become oppressively hard while the story takes a back seat to 'yet another excuse for a dragon-to-dragon dogfight'. Even the graphics stop looking that great when you've been staring at a stage's backdrop constantly for the last hour or two, literally fighting with the controller to get it to do what you want.

That right there is what makes this so sad. If they had allowed you the opportunity to use the controller's thumbsticks, this would be a completely different game. The lock-on system and lack of a proper radar would still be frustrating, but at least the game would be playable. That said, I can't wait for the rest of this year's PlayStation 3 offerings. I'm really looking forward to Ratchet and Clank, and even more to Drake's Fortune. This game, though, is a devastating blow for a title-starved console whose owners (including me) are ever trying to justify the high price we paid for entrance into Sony's version of the 'HD era'.
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Lair Review More

Lair Review

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  • i'll probably check out grand theft auto 4. i think i'm too old for this sh1t

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by jma05 ( 897351 )
      > i'll probably check out grand theft auto 4. i think i'm too old for this sh1t

      What are you trying to do? Establish your adulthood for the rest of us? On Slashdot?

  • Really not that bad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bugs42 ( 788576 ) <superjambob.gmail@com> on Friday September 21, 2007 @03:45PM (#20702693)
    I've read all the reviews of Lair, and I'm starting to wonder - did I get a broken copy? It works PERFECTLY for me. The controls respond just fine (I can count on one hand the number of times my dragon didn't respond the way I wanted it to, and I've played quite a bit), the lock-on system works fine, and call me crazy but the game's actually FUN. It's really met all my expectations as a good, enjoyable game. If you enjoyed any of the old Star Wars: Rogue Squadron games, then you'll probably like Lair.

    Oh, and to the reviewer - the main character is "Rohn", not "Roan."

    • Re:Really not that bad (Score:5, Funny)

      by lawpoop ( 604919 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @04:17PM (#20703485) Homepage Journal

      Oh, and to the reviewer - the main character is "Rohn", not "Roan."
      Behold! The Riders of Ron!

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by rikkitikki ( 91982 )
      Yeah, it's really not that bad. I feel the reviewers are being overly harsh. It sounds like most of them just do the initial basic tutorial and move onto the game and have a hard time controlling things. When I played it, I played the initial tutorial, level 1, then went back to the tutorial section and played through all the other tutorials. That probably helped immensely. I still struggled a bit with the 180 turns and the dragon battles that required me to shake the controller left and right. Otherw

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by freeweed ( 309734 )
        When I played it, I played the initial tutorial, level 1, then went back to the tutorial section and played through all the other tutorials.

        This thread is reminding me why everyone and their dog is buying a Wii, including those like myself who've been doing this for 30 years now.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by HAKdragon ( 193605 )
      Oh, and to the reviewer - the main character is "Rohn", not "Roan."

      It also should be noted that the Mokai (your main enemies) are from the north while the Asylians are from the south. Also

      Spoiler Alert!

      Asylia doesn't become a theocracy until near the end of the game.
    • I agree with you 100%. I've really enjoyed playing this game. Accurate controls that I haven't had any real trouble with. The lock-on system seems to work fine for me. I've gotten gold in all the levels except one already. I really don't understand the reviewers either. There is a certain level way to hold the controller, which may be messing with people's sense of how to hold the thing, that might enter into how the game handles. The complaint about the "turbo" and the "180 degree turn" cropped up a

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by seebs ( 15766 )
      I saw a video on youtube (no link, sorry) suggesting that it's the same thing that happened to me when I first tried to control a driving game with an analog stick: Massive oversteering by the player, and the game responding as though the rider were waving his hands around spastically. Which he is.

      If you tilt gently to turn gently, all is (apparently) well. I might even get this one.
    • >did I get a broken copy?

      I don't think you did; I really love my copy as well. Once I was used to controlling the dragon and using the techniques they teach in the training (like using "rage vision" to spot enemies), the game became a BLAST.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by donaldm ( 919619 )
      Take a look at the following http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ex1F6vRasNU [youtube.com] for the fluid control of the dragon. There is another video which I can't seem to find now of what not to do such a going ballistic (I assume the Author did this) with the controller which does not get you very far and in the same video it shows you haw to control your dragon, which really does look impressive.

      Some of the major reviewers have not been overly impressed with this game and while I have not played the game myself I have play

      • I have played the demo of Folkelaw and I have been very impressed with the PS3 sixaxis controller

        While that game has many different names, "Folkelaw" is not among them. Also, you've been impressed with the PS3 sixaxis after using it in Folklore??? What??? You just waggle it around to steal those animals' souls! Nothing impressive at all.

        The PS3 is a neat console. I know, I own one. But really, don't try to defend indefensible things. I just makes us PS3 owners look like stupid Sony shills.

    • Are we so spoiled that we can't take the time to learn to play a game anymore? I'll admit i was a bit frustrated at the controls for the first few missions, but when my brother showed me "how it's done" i had no problem playing the game. Given that it is the most awesome dragon flying game i've ever played (sorry panzer dragoon) i can ignore a few of the nuances in the control scheme. It's not perfect, but i love it.

  • Makes me wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by riskeetee ( 1039912 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @03:45PM (#20702711)
    ...if the control issue is the fault of the game developer or the hardware? Are there other games that use the sixaxis feature with precision, or is it just a clunky piece of hardware they tacked on to the PS3 "because Nintendo is doing it?"

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Swordopolis ( 1159065 )
      The infamous "twing-twang" from Heavenly Sword allows for arrow movement via the motion-sensing feature. I haven't actually played it myself, but a couple friends have said it handles waaaaay better than Lair.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by imsabbel ( 611519 )
      Its the fault of the developer in any case.

      They have the same consols. If the input axis were not precise enough for the purpose they want them so serve, they should have used a different control sheme.
      • It could be a hardware quality control issue, where some controllers (including the ones used in development) perform just fine, and others do not. That seems like a fairly likely scenario to me, explaining why some people have no problem with the controls, and others find the game to be unplayable.
        • Actually I would say it has the human factor as a major part of it.

          On the Wii, my GF is a whizz at the boxing meanwhile I have trouble.
          When I pick up the controllers and play my arms punch as I would but it doesn't seem to effect it, meanwhile the missus takes up a Buffy stance and knocks 10 tonnes of shit out of any opponent.

          On the inverse I can play the racing and driving games better whilst she sometimes has trouble with turning - she gets the similar "turn too far and it goes the wrong way" problem.
          If y
      • I'm going to have to say it could be hardware, but the only games I've extensively used both my Sixaxis motion sensing controllers on were Blazing Angels and Flow. I picked up Lair and Warhawk at the same time and played a little bit of Lair (first mission, and training) I thought it was a little funny (as in wonky, a tad unresponsive) and I put it up instead of sticking with it too long. Since then Warhawk hasn't left my PS3, so I can't tell you how well the motion controller is on Lair beyond the first

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by hchaudh1 ( 963268 )
      I don't think its anybody's "fault". Now when everyone expects humans to jump 10 ft. in the air, blasting away and all that, a bit of physics does jar people's expectations. I found Lair to be perfectly playable once you realize that you are flying a dragon, not a jet fighter. As far as Sixaxis being broken goes, I also play Warhawk regularly and the controller is really responsive. I think the problem is that way too many people are hooked on games like Halo and don't appreciate really good, team strateg

      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        But see... should you MAKE a game like that?

        I imagine if they made a game about team-based combat between soldiers wearing those grizzly bear-protection suits the people in the game wouldn't be very agile either... but recreating clunky, immobile combat accurately isn't necessarily something you should be praised for, and there's a chance it won't make for a good game, to boot.

        You know what DOES make for good action? Games where the things on the screen do what you want them to WHEN you want them to.

    • Hopefully it's a system level issue... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by trdrstv ( 986999 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @04:22PM (#20703587)

      ...if the control issue is the fault of the game developer or the hardware? Are there other games that use the sixaxis feature with precision, or is it just a clunky piece of hardware they tacked on to the PS3 "because Nintendo is doing it?"

      It was a peice of hardware bolted on since "Nintendo was doing it", but I don't think it's the Hardware per se. Lair by all accounts controlled badly, and no game I played (Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Motorstorm, or The Super-Rub-a-dub demo) handle with the correct ammount of sensitivity and I end up turning it off whenever possible. Heavenly Sword's "Twing Twang" sections were far more playable using the analog stick, and Warhawk even has the motion controls disabled by default if that's any indication for you.

      Not to sound trollish, but It can be done if you look over at the Wii side. Nintendo can get very accurate and sensitive readings from the motion controller over BlueTooth, so there really is no reason why Sony can't.

      Maybe Sony went cheap on the motion chip in the SixAxis, or maybe it's the developers not using the tools properly, or issues with how the system itself receives and sends the signals from the chip. Since this seems to be the case across games I'm betting (and hoping) it's a Sony issue with how they interpret commands. I'm hoping it's their problem not because "It's more egg on their face" but because they could fix it in a firmware update and fix the problem for all these games.

      • I think it's as simple as Sony developers, at least so far, adding motion on as an afterthought, where as the wii developers had to give it priority, as without it, they don't have much int he way of control options. A game built around motion from day 1 naturally should control better than one where it was added halfway though.

        Even the wii has this issue, sorta. Very few of the non-first party game have good controls, most have issues here and there, sometimes very bad ones.
        Hopefully the second gen

      • Heavenly Sword's "Twing Twang" sections were far more playable using the analog stick, and Warhawk even has the motion controls disabled by default if that's any indication for you.

        I just finished Heavenly Sword and I'm able to get headshot after headshot when playing Kai using the motion sensitive aftertouch. My friend has great difficulty as she tries to oversteer with broad movements rather than using the fine adjustments it expects. I have two controllers and generally alternate, using one while the other charges. Both respond quite well. Maybe I'll rent Lair and see what all the fuss is about -- I've been avoiding it because of all the reviews like this.

    • yes. Warhawk for example uses the motion control. IMHO warhawk nailed it with flight controls. Motion control plus two joysticks, one for aiming and the other split into two functions.
      The aiming is absolute stick position.
      On the other joystick, left/right is rudder control. Up and down are 180 loops (Pull up till your facing behind you). The loop only happens one the joystick is at 100% top or bottom.

      In expert mode, the plane does not auto rotate to UP.
      Weapon select is on the D-PAD so you are not loos
    • I agree with gr3kgr33n...Warhawk nails it perfectly. Nothing about Warhawk motion control ever feels unresponsive or out of your hands. I have to disagree that Wii controls are more sensitive. I've gotten pretty frustrated with putting in Wii sports golf (don't swing softly...flick the wrist (is that really golfing???)) and Metroid Prime 3 (after grabbing a latch, I struggle to get the controller to recognize that I'm pulling back or pushing in).
    • I own a PS3. Here's what I think: Motion control in the 6Axis controller is an unnecessary tacked on gimmick that was added because Nintendo was doing it. Or that is the way it seems. In Call of Duty 3, for example, the only place it is used (and is, alas, necessary) is in scripted events - not core gameplay. I just use the analogs whenever I can instead. They are...better. Now the PS3 is a great system, because it has powerful hardware. Like any system, its success will be determined by the games comin
    • In this case it is the fault of the developer. Not because they were forced to make an entirely sixaxis game (who knows?), but because they didn't even include an alternate control scheme so you can swap to the analog sticks.
    • or is it just a clunky piece of hardware they tacked on to the PS3 "because Nintendo is doing it?"

      Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner.

  • Sad that this has to be asked...but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Cutriss ( 262920 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @03:50PM (#20702807) Homepage
    What firmware version was your PS3 when you played Lair? Reports are somewhat widespread that the newest firmware greatly improves the control experience.

    Granted, shipping a game that bad and then patching it later is inexcuseable, but it would be a good datapoint to know if you had difficulty with the game pre- or post-patch.
    • I would think that if the FW update fixes things in a flagship game that Sony would be yelling it from the rooftops.

      Also this... http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/09/07 [penny-arcade.com]
      • No, because then they would have to admit to having released the game before it was ready. Better to hype the game and "fix" it via hidden patch.
        • 1) Release a game
          2) Get destroyed in all reviews
          3) Fix it
          4) Don't tell anyone the issues which made them avoid the game are fixed
          5) Profit???

          I don't think so. The firmware update didn't change a damn thing with the Lair control.
  • I appreciate your feedback on this game, but to help me and others out it would be great to hear your opinion of some other PS3 games you have played and your overall opinion of them.

    On a similar note I was thinking about picking up this game but unfortunately it is too violent for me to play around my family, and now am considering Heavenly Sword (T rating), and I can't wait for Eye of Judgment because my son loves Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh, so that game is a no brainer.

    Again, what did you think of other PS3 games
  • For Sega to work up an installment of Panzer Dragoon for the Wii.

  • Warhawk gives you the option to use that 'controller-tilt' thing to steer the airplanes. I played around with that for quite a while and finally just gave up on it. Thumbsticks are so much easier.

    I wonder if the controller-tilt feedback sent to the PS3 is not very high quality (as in, game programmers have a hard time converting whatever signals are sent from the controller into game events), or if people just aren't used to playing with it. Any PS3 developers have an opinion?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by d3l33t ( 1106803 )
      I hear that the second generation of sixaxis controllers released (ones they didn't tell press or customers about) actually had improved tilt control
    • Motion control was the surprise Wii counter announced six months before launch. Even the developers said they didn't know about it. It's tacked on, and as such, it's pretty much useless shit. Sony should have concentrated on making games instead of trying to catch up to Nintendo's control innovations yet again. Then they might not be in last place, trailing behind their own last generation.

      Still, as soon as there are those magic five games I'm interested in playing, I'm in. But I'm an addict.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) *
      IANAPS3D, but I'd venture to guess that the input itself is on the mushy side...The Wii design team obviously mistrusted pure controller sensors; it's why you have to strap that crap on your TV. In my experience (not vast, but existent) with the sort of gyros and acceleration sensors small enough to jam into a hand-held controller, I'd be surprised if they got really accurate fine-grained responses in a chaotic dogfighting session.

      Without that, it doesn't matter how good the developers are.

      Another thing (pe

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by NaugaHunter ( 639364 )
        Um, the 'light sensor bar' you set above or below your screen reads infrared for aiming, and probably has little to do with motion sensing per se. Most actual motion sensing that I've seen so far has been for wide motions (swinging a bat, yanking a fishing rod, waving up & down to run). All of the fine sensing seems light-based and involve aiming of some kind.

        Unless there was some other 'crap' in your Wii box that you "strapped" on your TV, for some bizarre reason.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by nuzak ( 959558 )
          The sensor bar doesn't read anything, it's just a set of IR LED's that the wiimote's IR camera sees and uses as a point of reference, for calibration and tracking. When it can't see the bar, it relies on the rate gyros alone. People have substituted candles for the bar and it works fine (you'd think it would blind the sensor, but I guess the camera has limiters).

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by grumbel ( 592662 )
            There are no gyros in the Wiimote, just one image sensor which registers the two dots from the sensorbar (dots closed together are merged into one, so the 10 LED show up as two dots) and one XYZ-accelerometer, which also can, with the help of gravity, be used to measure rotation around two axis.

            The IR bar is used for motion sensing in some games, i.e. Metroid Prime 3 uses it as far as I know for the door handles, since due to the sensorbar having two light, it can easily calculate distance and orientation t

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by nuzak ( 959558 )
              I'm referring to a solid state rate gyro, which uses some kind of piezoelectric effect (I think that's how they all work), and can be used as an accelerometer. Possibly the wiimote uses different technology though and I'm using the term incorrectly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Have Blue ( 616 )
        The Wii doesn't use the sensor bar to replace acceleration sensors, it's to give the controller a point of reference to determine its position in space.
    • I have no problem with the motion control in Warhawk, in fact I find it much more natural than using the stick. To each his own, I guess.
  • ... get MotorStorm and enjoy PS3 gaming properly. Or Virtua Fighter 5 if that's your thing.

  • A lot of piss-poor games (Score:3, Informative)

    by photomonkey ( 987563 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @04:35PM (#20703935)

    I've been noticing a lot of crap on both consoles recently. I haven't had much time for videogames, but I did pick up MOH Airborne, and it blows. The multiplayer is the same crap that's seen in every FPS game these days, the storyline isn't much fun and the Super Nazis at the last few missions really kill the feel of the game.

    Besides that, the single player campaign is all too short (5 hours to beat it on Normal, with more than one hour of that dedicated to beating the Super Nazis at the end.

    Overlord was a good game, but the brewery glitch is a real killer, and precludes you from finishing the game. Last I checked, there was still not a 360 patch out there.

    And Lair. Great graphics, shitty, shitty gameplay.

    When the next generation Xbox360 and PS3 hit, it was expected that some games wouldn't do anything more than win oohs and ahs for the graphics. They've both been out for a while now. Where are the games?

    Some guy in the raytracing story today said that 80% of all games have always been stinkers across all platforms. Maybe that's true, but there were a lot more games available too. That was a bigger 20%.

    I don't own a Wii, but it's going to be short in coming if I don't find some games for Xbox360 or PS3 that can hold my attention for more than a few hours. At $60 a game, this is getting kinda ridiculous.

    We'll see what Halo looks like next week. My guess: a re-hash of the same old game.

    • You're looking to avoid a re-hashes of the same old game and you picked up a WWII shooter? And not just any WWII shooter, the 11th game in a franchise that was never very interesting to begin with. And then complained about its storyline? The internet is full of game reviews if you're interested in knowing whats crap before you spend your money.

      • Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear. I really like historical shooters. Brothers in Arms was great, as was Medal of Honor Allied Assault (the last MOH I played). Call of Duty 2 and 3 (never played the first one) was equally good and had pretty decent multiplayer features.

        They had a chance to do something really cool with Airborne; and in fact there are some good features. The graphics are incredible, and the non-linear, start-wherever-you-want setup is pretty cool. They just lost it with the

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Damvan ( 824570 )
          You missed out, Call of Duty 1 and the expansion, United Offensive, were by far the best games of the series and put COD2 and COD3 to shame. MOH games have all been mediocre. Brothers in Arms is coming out for the 360, lets keep our fingers crossed that it doesn't suck.

          By the way, did you try the demo for MOH before purchasing it? That demo was all I needed to know it was crap.

          You didn't mention Bioshock...by far the best game for the 360 yet.

          • Haven't played Bioshock yet. I'm hoping to pick it up next month when I have a bit more free time.

            I didn't download the demo for MOH, one of the rare instances that I didn't try before I bought. I wish I had.

    • I believe a patch for Overlord has been released which addressed a number of game blocking bugs.

  • I disagree. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Maudib ( 223520 ) on Friday September 21, 2007 @05:12PM (#20704689)
    I have to disagree with the reviews. I found the game really enjoyable, including the sixaxis controls. I was better able to handle the controls in this game then most console titles, as I find dual analog stick to be impossible.

    I think that there has been an awful lot of band wagoning around this title.
    • "I have to disagree with the reviews. I found the game really enjoyable, including the sixaxis controls"

      How old are you? and how many games have you played? Are you hardcore or casual? What era did you start gaming?

      I think this is a relevant question.

  • Score: 1/5 - This game is unfinished/unplayable. It is not worth the trouble of purchasing, or renting.

    So after reading all the reviews on the internet and in print saying this exact same thing---weeks ago, mind you---with the myriad of evidence to back it up, you still decided it was worth playing and reviewing here? What a waste of time and bandwidth.

    • So after reading all the reviews on the internet and in print saying this exact same thing---weeks ago, mind you---with the myriad of evidence to back it up, you still decided it was worth playing and reviewing here?

      He had, literally, no choice.

    • Not to mention being full of it. Check out the online scores to see all the people who got gold level rankings on each level. I rented and beat the game for $10 and got mostly bronzes myself, and went back and played several very fun levels over and over to get a silver or better (no Golds yet).

      The game is very playable, some people just can't play a game that isn't in a plane with a map.

    • What a waste of time and bandwidth.

      you need a hug
  • Lair was expected to be a piece of shit since it was delayed so many times and the original PR screen shots were nothing more than lies.

    Heavenly Sword on the other hand is brilliantly acted / performed, and the game is very well executed. It is short but sweet. The dramatic performances mix well with the action to provide an experience that is really the best seen to date on the PS3. I know thats not saying much, but Heavenly Sword really does shine as a great game and it will for a long time.

    Try it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nuzak ( 959558 )
      > Heavenly Sword really does shine as a great game and it will for a long time.

      Or until you've finished it on the same afternoon that you bought it. I'm sure it's a good game, I'm just not sure it's a good $60 game.
      • I'm beginning to wonder if _no_ length is long enough or short enough for some folks (I'm speaking generally here, so keep those cards and letters) we hear "this game is TOO long" for game X, and game Y is "too short"... really, I would like to know what the proper length is? It seems the bar moves depending on the game...

        I like long games (Oblivion), but I also like rather short games as well... if they're well executed. (And HS sounds very well executed..and I loved the demo).

        Making a game too long with
        • I thought God of War had an excellent play time. Beat in about 20-25 hours spread over a week or so. That's just right for me.
          • Dude, you have way to much free time on your hands! 20-25 hours in a week? That's half a regular work week. Actually, isn't that how many hours people put in at a part-time job? Sounds like you need to get out or get yourself a job man.

            • Dude, you have way to much free time on your hands! 20-25 hours in a week? That's half a regular work week. Actually, isn't that how many hours people put in at a part-time job? Sounds like you need to get out or get yourself a job man.

              How much Television do you watch? Some people are movie buffs, and could watch 1 movie a day. Hell I could set aside a full Sunday to watch all 3 football games depending on who's playing. Not everyone can do that (especially if they have kids) but 2-3 hours per night (in

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by grumbel ( 592662 )
          ### It seems the bar moves depending on the game...

          A Ikaruga requires in 5min far more concentration then most RPGs in ten hours combined. So its natural that a Ikaruga can be a lot shorter then a RPG and still provide a good experience. With on RPG you are often wandering around without much goal for hours, so if it would be over after 10 hours, there really wouldn't be much place to fit a story in. On the other side you have games like Fahrenheit, that are only 7 hours, but feel like you are watching a se
          • Yes, but within the average of 6h gameplay, HS apparently delivers great fun and atmosphere... focusing solely on its length compared to GoW (which had some tedious things to do in it, but thankfully not very many) is the point I'm trying to make... the bar moves this way or that depending upon what game we compare game X to.

            It's a disservice to do so, by the reviewing community, and I think some games aren't getting their fair shake as a result... whereas some games that should've scored lower are getting

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by LKM ( 227954 )
          I usually don't finish 60+ hour games, but then 6 hours is just too short. 12-hour-games are usually described as "short" in reviews; personally, I think 12 hours are about right for me - if they are 12 good hours.
      • I think it is worth the $60 because the games cinematic aspects flow nice with the gameplay and it seems to all work like a nice movie. Any longer may have been just drawing out the gameplay... Why not just play the game over if you want to repeat the game play?

        Most games tend to repeat the gameplay over and over... granted they could add more to it... but for what it is, its a very good game and a great experience.

        Feel free to rent it... but you should play it if you have a PS3.
    • Feel free to pay $60 for it.

      Oh, but wait, you bought a PS3, you're already an idiot.
  • While at the topic of motion control, does anybody know what tech actually drives the SIXAXIS? With the Wiimote its, easy, you can find the exact chip used, what data is returned and such, but with the SIXAXIS I have a really hard time finding any hard information. From what I could gather it seems to have more then just an accelerometer, i.e. it seems to have at least one kind of gyro-sensor to sense yaw rotation. However I couldn't find exact details and I am still puzzled on if it can also sense pitch an
  • Perhaps some controllers respond better than others, that's why you see some people with better reviews of Lair than others.

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