Violent Games As Great Teachers 69
Gamepolitics and the site Physorg have an in-depth look at a study (pdf) done on the educational nature of violent games. While the implications of the study reinforce the old 'games lead to violent kids' saw, the authors of the research stress that they're more interested in talking up the benefits of games in education. "When considered in the light of what is known to be the "best practices" of education, violent video games appear to be exemplary teachers of aggression ... It should therefore be no surprise that video games are excellent teachers, both of educational content and of violent content... The fact that learning occurs regardless of whether the effects are intentional or unintentional is irrelevant, and should make us more thoughtful about designing games and choosing games for children and adolescents to play."
The Typing... (Score:3)
Further comment seems superfluous.
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At for games as teachers... of course they're good teachers, they're interactive. Unlike the classroom where you're expected to sit an absorb information to either be regurgitated verbatim on an exam or never actually applied games give you little nuggets of info that you need to apply immediacy.
Edutainment isn't difficult but the way it'
Typing of the Dead anyone? (Score:1, Redundant)
aggression? (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes me want to hurl the tv out the window is throwing an interception in Madden '08. I've never had that feeling when playing Day of Defeat though, even when I get bazooka'd, which is pretty embarrassing. Perhaps when the server drops my connection though.
So video games may increase interest and understanding of violence and war, but if someone's having a good time, I don't think it is promoting 'aggression'. The anger is probably already there with or without video games. Unless it's Madden and the damn wide receivers won't fight for the ball.
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If kids think that, they haven't played GTA much. Cops respawn every quarter mile or so when you have a wanted level.
On the other hand, GTA taught me that auto detailers are convenient, quick, and the single greatest threat to the criminal justice system.
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Generally speaking, people who do stupid things as a result of of undue influence from things under the broad category of "new media" are mentally or emotionally abnormal.
Let's use the example of Megan Meier, that 13-year-old girl who committed suicide after an imposter on MySpace she'd known for six weeks spurned her. She was clinically depressed. Now, last I remember (which wasn't TOO long ago), being a teenager really, really sucks, and even normal teenagers are incredibly fragile and self-conscious by
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Psychologists beat this dead horse because it grabs headlines. Professors at research institutions, unless they are very lucky, are under constant pressure to publish, and sexy research gets more grants and publication deals than boring research. Seriously, if you were one of these publishers, what would you rather publish: a paper which tells Middle America that their children are little shits because of an across the board decrease in hope, parental involvement, social mobility, and community strength alo
aggression? Pacifist? (Score:2, Insightful)
The flip side Mr insightful about your position is that if games have no influence in a negative sense? Then they can't have a positive effect either. All those slashstories about storytelling and are games this or that are out the window because all games can be are neutral artifacts.
Stupid shrinks. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the huge problem with sociology. Put 1200 kids through a test where they're reporting their own answers, and then make blanket assertions about the world. If the world doesn't agree, must be a fluke, right? Their numbers, if real, would have to be reflected in actual numbers...The percentages are statistically very significant.
Goes without saying that they got the results that supported their initial hypothesis.
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I have seen time and time again about how this book or this movie has changed someones life. I have seen people say that religious movies, books, and or teachings in general barin wash people.
So why is it that people are willing to say that violent media doesn't have an influence on people?
I have a friend that will not allow his kid to see "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" and edited out the religous content of veggie tails videos but at the same
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I go to church with my wife and kid, because it's important to her, and hell, I was raised religious
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Do can media have an effect on people or not?
Is not the question. The question is "Do video games that are not designed to increase violent behavior increase violent behavior?" The single most obvious reason they would reduce violence is they take up significant quantities of time leaving time to be violent.
PS: I suspect video games reduce real world violence and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
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My gut feeling, is that violent games reduce violence in society by providing a safety valve. I doubt that is as significant, however, as the fact that most people aren't all that prone to violence in the first place. We're less and less the sort of society where going ou
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My post was more about how people that in their heart feel that they are critical thinkers are willing to toss it away in a second when it suits them.
They know that in this came violent video games are harmless and will toss away any study that goes counter to that belief.
I don't think that violent video games can make a none violent person in to a mass murder. I am just willing to look at research that says that it may have
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There are a lot of options: Video games might make people non violent, smarter, thin, happy, or whatever. Or some video games like Doom could increase violence where realistic games like counter strike might decrease it. Or some video games like Doom could decrease violence but realistic games like counter strike might increase it. etc.
My point is people who want to demons
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That is IMPOSSIBLE!
To do a double blind study the subjects must not know there is any difference! Just what placebo could you provide for video games?
Double blind studies are great when you can do them. For most behavioral studies that is impossible.
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Expensive example: Setup 100 after school programs with video games and other activities. Randomly assign some centers with violent game X and others with popular non violent games. See what happens. The researchers at each center would not need to know which the experimental group was. You could even do the classic method of doing some false research to aka does d
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How would you prevent them from playing violent video games outside of the after school programs?
You just can not d
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IMO: There is no need to do this.
The larger and more random the sample the less outside factors are important. It's true that 6 +/- hours a week for a few years might not be significant but that's still useful information. The simple truth is science works in the real world. So if you can't test a theory then it's meaningless.
EX: In theory you could setup a million fake families on some islands in the south p
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The best practical way to do this test would be a single blind test. Even then you couldn't prove causality. It is possible that people violent people might like violent video games. So they would tend to play them more than people lacking those viole
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Anyway, if you read a study conducted using the basic methods I originally suggested would you feel it said something meaningful about this subject? If no
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You might prove that violent video games do not cause people without violent tendencies to become violent. I think that is almost a given.
Your study would tend to give skewed results on a number of ways. One extreme acts of violence are very rare to start with. How would count the acts of violence? What would be an act of violence? Would you rank the severity of
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Well most people focus on uncommon events. In the US there are around 4 violent crimes (Assault, rape, murder etc) per 1000 people per year.
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Do you have any evidence too prove it?
Let's face it if someone said that "I suspect video games increase real world violence and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary." I bet you would call them an idiot.
I see a HUGE case of people believing what they want to believe on this issue.
Everything from, "I play violent video games all the time" which is right up there with. "I smoke three packs a day
Re:Stupid shrinks. (Score:4, Informative)
My argument against games making people more violent would be more historical. Lot's of things have, historically, been said to make people more violent, and this tends not to bear out in the real world. Marijuana was once thought to induce psychosis and violent behavior, and while we may or may not agree on whether or not marijuana ought to be legal, most people do acknowledge that it doesn't exactly make you violent. The same arguments were applied to movies, rock music, sports events, and comic books...Anything that might make the kids into ravening monsters. It just tends not to happen.
On top of that, there has been no increase in violence since the advent of truly violent gaming. It's pretty widespread now, so you'd think that any actual upswing in violence would stand out against the preceding decades, but there isn't anything like that in the data [usdoj.gov].
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I am commenting on how people that are so sure that they are rational and open minded are willing to toss away there open mindedness when it threatens something they believe is true.
In this case that belief is that violent video games are harmless.
The same people that are dismissing video games I am sure can list some book or movie that they feel "changed" or "influenced" there life.
As I
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This is not a scientific study but see: http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/violence_and_videogames [gamerevolution.com]
If you look at the way gamers spend their free time they are often spending 30+% of their free time playing games. So among that group of people they would have to be 30% more violent in the rest of their life to make up for that gap. Which does not seem to be happening.
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At any rate, does Die Hard have an effect on your life (other than being entertaining)? I highly doubt it. OTOH movies like Fight Club or Terminator 2 can make you think about things a bit deeper besides being entertainment. I'm sure there are better examples, they just aren't coming to mind at the moment.
Its the same for all media; people said the same thing about "romance" novels
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Hardly. You can argue, for example, that abortion and contraception has resulted in fewer unwanted children over the same period. Or, if you prefer, that the end of the lifetiime welfare entitlement "did the trick".
You can argue into or out of any conclusion you want using crude, aggregated figures, just by introducing or discounting factors to suit your tastes. You have to put a little more effort into disproving a theor
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If I argued that games decreased violent crime based on the fact that violent crime has decreased over the last ten years or so, I'd be falling into the trap you're accusing me of falling into...That decrease could have been caused by anything, and there is absolutely nothing to relate it to gaming.
However, for the
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It depends on what you mean by "increased the numbers". If you mean "resulted in a number that is higher than at the start of the period studied" it is as you say.
If you mean "resulted in a number that is higher than it would have been in absence of the factor" then it does no good to compare the current number to
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If violent games lead to violent kids, then why has there been no upswing of violence in that demographic since the advent of violent games? Violence has actually declined
Well while the evolution of violence doesn't prove that violent video games made people more violent, it doesn't disprove it either, unlike what you seem to suggest, as violent video games could have very well participated to increasing violence, while for unrelated reasons crime would have dropped. In other words, this doesn't prove any
Re:Stupid shrinks. (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, which do you think is worse -- having someone beat you up, or cheat you out of $100,000 or even $10,000? The bruises would heal in weeks, but the financial damage could take much longer to heal. What if you got cancer and the insurance administrator got paid a bonus to disqualify you from treatment? What about the executives at Enron that cheated their employees out of their life savings? What about cheating with other people's spouses? There are many ways that people mistreat each other every day in many ways that make people suffer far morse than physical beatings ever could, and even make people wish that they were killed instead.
So a game where people actively work against the best interests of other people and delight in their misfortune does not have to literally produce murderers to have negative effects in society. Just training generations of children to laugh at the pain, suffering and misfortunes of others can slowly leach away at the humanity in our society, teaching people to be more cruel and to cheat others more.
The violent effects of video games don't even have to be confined to this country. For example, when Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, most people I know were in favor of the invasion -- it was treated like another video game. The massive human cost of the effects of the war didn't even enter into the minds of most Americans I talked to, even though it's inevitable.
Most networks treated the start of the Iraq War as just another "Superbowl" type event, and very few Americans had the heart to even imagine the vast devastation the war would wreak on both Iraq and the US. Americans should have been horrified at the idea of attacking a defenseless country, but they cheered instead.
I am not saying that violent video games caused the Iraq war, or that they should be banned. I have enjoyed many fragging sessions with co-workers and would still enjoy it. But I also think every action has an effect, and those effects should be thought about. In a day when massive fraud of all kinds is causing the sub-prime mortgage market to fail, taking along banks and threatening our economy, and when our the best and bravest of our country are killing and being killed abroad, and coming home to commit suicide here at far too high rates, one of our biggest problems seems to be a lack of concern for how our actions affect other people. America is still a great country filled with great people, but our position in the world is changing, and we have a lot to think about.
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There was violence in the past, long before cartoons were invented.
Kent: I see. Fascinating.
Meyers: Yeah, and know something, Karl? The Crusades, for instance.
Tremendous violence, many people killed, the darned thing went
on for thirty years.
Kent: And this was before cartoons were invented?
Meyers: That's right, Kent.
This is absolutely true! (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm giving my 4 year old daughter a classical education. - "W3ndy gibbed stoolpigeon with the rocket launcher!"
Peter
Learning a violent act != being more violent (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Learning a violent act != being more violent (Score:4, Insightful)
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Oh absolutely! Once I applied the lessons I learned in Half-Life to real life things have been so much easier.
.357 Magnum, and a shotgun everywhere does draw a few odd looks but if I bang the crowbar against the wall or floor a few times most folks stop staring right away. If they don't I just wildly brandish the .357 a bit and most of them start scurrying off.
Sure, carrying a crowbar,
Now and then Dr. Breen sends some of
Re:Learning a violent act != being more violent (Score:4, Informative)
At the very least it is a fact that kids will imitate violent behavior they see. This is the reason that you don't see cartoons anymore with Daffy Duck being shot in the face, Porky getting his head snapped in a suitcase, or Sylvester getting hit in the head with a frying pan by Tweetie Bird: Because kids did these things to their siblings after seeing it on television. Obviously a kid isn't going to have a laser gun or a katana or something like in a video game, but instead he's just going to whip a cup or rock at his brother and yell ZAP.
the game doesn't even have to be culturally unacceptable violence. Studies have shown that even things like watching a football game on television has the same effect. I'm not saying it's turning them into little killbots, but there is evidence that onscreen violence does increase aggressiveness.
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Hangman (Score:3, Insightful)
Pfft.. (Score:3, Funny)
Half Life (Score:2)
And don't even get me started on my ladder climbing education...
Here's what I've learned: (Score:3, Interesting)
I played Oregon Trail.
I learned that Dysentery is a bad thing and can kill me and wreck my trip.
I played Doom.
I learned that you can modify things you buy to make them more fun, like Barney. I learned how to use my computer to modify the aliens into Barneys, and now I use computers every day in my job.
I played Warcraft.
I learned that the key to winning games is not how hard you fight, but how great of control you have over your resources. This is true in games, war, politics, and business.
I played Grand Theft Auto.
I learned that if I steal cars, cops will come. If I shoot at them, they will get mad and I will eventually die to a tank.
I played Socom.
I learned that if I was in the Army, I'd die. I learned that a lot.
I think games reinforce the reality of this world, and individuals that do not let it impact their academic/professional lives benefit greatly from them.
Games do have an influence (Score:2)