Zen and the Art of Guitar Hero

An anonymous reader writes "Julian Murdoch over at GamersWithJobs.com has what can only be described as a piece of liturgy, proclaiming a religious experience at his local Best Buy as he watches someone beat 'Through the Fire and the Flames' on Expert in Guitar Hero 3. 'At 6 minutes in, a small crowd has formed, perhaps 15 of us. His sravaka — his disciples — look nervously at us, absorbing the distractions, protecting him a bubble of calm. There is complete silence. Even my son is staring slackjawed, like he does in church during communion, not understanding the content of the ritual but understanding the tone and sacredness of the space.'"

Cue in Southpark jokes...

[kitzkar]

... in 3... 2... 1...

Re:Cue in Southpark jokes...

[Anonymous Coward]

You....Are...Fags!

Re:

[Fierythrasher]

Obviously you have not been modded up for this very funny comment because no one has SEEN that South Park episode and, instead, thinks you're just trolling.

Re:

[Poltras]

Obviously you have not been modded up for this very funny comment because no one has SEEN that South Park episode and, instead, thinks you're just trolling.

If no one can get the reference, it's not funny. That's the very definition of humor and inside jokes.
Then, by deduction, if no one on slashdot laughs, there's no need to mod him funny.

Re:Cue in Southpark jokes...

[Psmylie]

If a tree tells a joke in the forest and nobody hears it, is it still funny?

Probably not, but it's still a talking tree, and that's worth something.

Re:Cue in Southpark jokes...

[Fierythrasher]

So inside jokes have no value? I refer to Denis Miller's 5% joke guideline where the majority of his jokes have to hit the mass audience but several of his more esoteric references are aimed at only the 5% of the audience who knows what he's talking about. If you're in the 95% you're confused, but if you're in the 5% then it's funny as all hell.

Re:

[Poltras]

If you're in the 95% you're confused, but if you're in the 5% then it's funny as all hell.

If that 5% don't have mod points, don't ask the remaining 95% to mod the inside joke funny. The system works.

Re:

[sumdumass]

You should know by now that nobody can ever leave anything they don't understand alone. It is the nature of the populace. We will either embrace it as magical, religious, or some other extra good thing or we will demonize it ritually and bash it without ever looking at it's finer points. I don't think you have to be told which happens more.

Re:

[Rei]

So inside jokes have no value?

Well, the human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vaccuuming systems, so you ought be careful not to annoy your audience too much :) I don't think anyone smiles in hospitals. This planet has -- or rather had -- a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. They won't appreciate your humor. Thankfully, we, the Slashdot posters of Culture 19, know well the value of a good joke. Either you win and

Re:Cue in Southpark jokes...

[StarvingSE]

Afterward, the kid couldn't take all the fame that came after this huge best buy show. He went into his basement and played Heroin Hero for weeks straight in order to deal with it.

Re:

[Reverend528]

Step 1) Play Guitar Hero
Step 2) ???
Step 3) Profit!

Open-source GH clone

[TheForgotton]

I've been thinking about giving one of those Guitar Hero games a spin but I don't want to drop a crapload of money on a new console (or video card for the windows port) plus the cost of the game and controller. It turns out that there is a pygame project called Frets on Fire [sourceforge.net] that uses your computer keyboard as your axe. It's GNU gpl and cross-platform though I can only vouch for Windows myself.

The only downside is the lack of licensed songs. There looks to be a pretty good community with lots of user-crea

I've noticed something

[Nailexe]

I've noticed something that Guitar Hero players and real guitar players have in common. Guitar Hero players think you're lazy and suck if you play on medium, real guitar players think you're lazy and suck if you don't play guitar. And unless you're damn amazing absolutely neither of them will get you laid.

Just have a guitar near you and get laid!

[StCredZero]

Oh, yeah? According to this, some guys can get laid just by having a guitar near them and never taking it out of the case!

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/pdx/105596028.html [craigslist.org]

Cyanide and Happiness Webcomic

[StCredZero]

http://www.explosm.net/comics/897/ [explosm.net]

Re:

[larien]

See also Lemmy [wikipedia.org].

Re:

[illuminatedwax]

Talent has nothing to do with getting laid. The trick is to say you're in a band. Whereas no amount of Guitar Hero skill will get you anything.

Re:

[LocalH]

Talent has nothing to do with getting laid. The trick is to say you're in a band. Whereas no amount of Guitar Hero skill will get you anything.

Maybe not for you...

Re:

[jskline]

I must be missing something...

I never once thought that everything in life revolved around getting laid! :-)

Re:

[Beardo the Bearded]

Eat.

Survive.

Reproduce.

That's all there is. The rest is just a layer of abstraction.

Re:

[Mex]

That's funny. Nerds think you're lazy and dumb if you don't know anything about computers. Interesting, how that works!

Re:

[dada21]

This is absolutely true. I'm not anywhere near the most attractive man in the universe (although I do have a very hot wife), but my wife won't let me even THINK about being in a band, and she's not the jealous type. She's just aware of the stories of my previous years in various lame bands. I love playing music, but was never dedicated enough to get great at any one instrument, but there is just a fact of life that women, even intelligent and secure women, have a thing for musicians with the jewels to ge

That's nothing new...

[hal2814]

Who remembers the crowds that used to form around the one-on-one fighting games? People cheering and booing and complaining about cheap moves and whatever made the game a blast to play. I own most of the home ports of the Capcom and SNK fighters but nothing will beat the times I played Marvel Super Heroes (the only one I was any good at) for over an hour straight on $0.50. I played person after person and then I thought everybody had gone away. I ended up beating the game and realized that everyone else was still back there watching. It was kind of a cool feeling.

Re:

[hansamurai]

You've probably seen this but it's one of those epic moments from fighting game tournaments that gives me goosebumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM [youtube.com]

Wait! Ive seen this before?

[Altus]

was he deaf, dumb, and blind?

Re:

[geminidomino]

"Sure plays a mean guitar hero???"

Just doesn't sound the same. :(

Gah, at best buy? Why?

[Antifuse]

Dude... if you're going to do that, do it at home so you can at least get the achievement for it! :)

More rhythm gaming mania

[Second_Derivative]

This is the point where I come out of the woodwork and promote my obscure but incredibly fun music videogame of choice :) If you enjoyed seeing TTFAF, have a look at the boss songs of beatmania IIDX:

Human Sequencer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLJTZJ2Sevk&feature=related [youtube.com]
Nageki no Ki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf3r7gatAiA&NR=1 [youtube.com]

Not nearly as long as TTFAF, but 2000 notes in 2 minutes is quite a thing to behold.

Re:Not that exciting

[HeavensBlade23]

You realize DDR and Guitar Hero are basically the exact same game with different interfaces right? Both games ultimately boil down to hitting a button (with your foot or with your finger) in time with the music.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

I realize that. But it's much more exciting to watch somebody with that kind of coordination with their feet, than it is to watch someone do the exact same thing with large buttons laid out on a stick. Actually using your feet, rather than your fingers, makes the game a lot more interesting.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

Exactly. As a DDR fanatic, when I first played GH, I was like, "Hey, this is just like when I want to be lame and play DDR with a hand-held controller". Unfortunately, since my fingers get sore and lock up quickly from doing things like GH, I can't go around and "pwn" everybody. But I did surprise the people who were watching me play for the first time.

Plus, DDR has doubles mode where you have to dance across two pads. (Crowds will often form when I do that.) Some rare arcades have quad mode where you

Re:

[Nerdfest]

It's a pretty impressive thing to see, although I'm not sure I'd watch it on TSN. Now, play through 'Through the Fire and Flames' on expert using a DDR mat ... that I'd watch.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

I get that it's fun, I get that it's challenging. What I don't get is why anybody would want to watch it be played. I think it would be fun to play. I don't think it's a fun game to watch.

Re:Not that exciting

[XxtraLarGe]

I get that it's fun, I get that it's challenging. What I don't get is why anybody would want to watch it be played. I think it would be fun to play. I don't think it's a fun game to watch.

That's the way I feel about golf...

Re:Not that exciting

[damaki]

Strangely, I do not feel the same about boxing...

Re:Not that exciting

[XxtraLarGe]

Strangely, I do not feel the same about boxing...

Yeah, boxing is probably the opposite of golf. Fun to watch, but not very fun to play...

Re:

[LocalH]

The guitar, for the most part, doesn't care when you pushed 'em down.

Neither does Guitar Hero.

Re:

[Webz]

It's different though. In DDR, your steps go along with the music. If you miss a step, nothing happens other than a couple boos or dead arrows. But in Guitar Hero and Rock Band, the music of the instrument will actually cut out if you aren't performing it properly. So it's a different sort of feedback mechanism, and a better one, I think. It feels like the music is caused by you, which makes it feel like you're really rocking out. That and it's more of a group experience. The game gives a lot of bonuses for

Re:

[zerkon]

And that difference is HUGE from a difficulty standpoint, if you screw up in GH it makes it much more difficult to get back on track. This is even more the case in Rock Band, if the drummer or the bass player screw up, it tends to screw somebody else up. Personally thats why I love Rock Band, more than any other game I've played (except maybe end game raids in EQ or WoW) you need to really cooperate and work as a team to get through it.

Re:Not that exciting

[mpathetiq]

All you have to do is press the right buttons at the right time.

All the best games have simple objectives.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

It might be fun to play. I wasn't arguing that. What I was saying, was that it isn't fun to watch. Playing Simon is fun. Watching someone else play Simon is not. I don't know why somebody would be drawn to watch someone playing Guitar Hero unless it was just to pass the time while they were waiting for their turn to play.

Re:

[mpathetiq]

I'm not exactly sure why it's entertaining to watch, but damn it is. I think it's because you see a visual approximation of what's going on in the song (sort of like a score) AND you get to see people make funny faces and dance while they play.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

>All the best games have simple objectives.

Including the game that is woman. I know the objective but have yet to score.

To tell you the truth, I don't even understand the rules.

Re:

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

No.. Young grasshopper. The best games are those without any objectives at all.

Re:

[mpathetiq]

I like that. You are awesome.

Re:

[Tetsujin]

I was really thinking more in terms of the "barrier to entry", like you said. Any idiots can form a garage band nowadays that will actually play a few performances before someone notifies them of how badly they suck, so why do they play Guitar Hero instead? Because "real guitars are for old people"?

On the other hand, very few people ever get to seriously take up a sport. I can understand why someone would want to pretend they made it to the NFL, whereas pretending to play guitar at some random party seems much more like being too lazy to learn to really play guitar at some random party.

Then again, being a dancer with good speaking and singing voices, I guess I may have underestimated the level of inborn talent needed to form a competent musical group.

Well, here's the thing: Nobody can do everything for real. There's just no time. People choose the things they're gonna do with their life: and once they've filled that schedule of stuff, they can't necessarily add more stuff, no matter how easy it is to learn. "Oh, learn some Assembler. It's not that hard." Sure, but if you're already busy doing a dozen other things...

Don't think of Rock Band as a substitute for starting a real band - think of it as what it is, a game. People play it and they have f

Re:

[jriding]

I too felt that way. The strange part is watching (the game looks retarded) but playing with all that mystery of "air guitar" and being a rocker it really brings it to life... now as you watch you say wow.. red and green same time then move to blue.. that doesn't look hard at all.. its just a pattern. Then you play... realizing your fingers do not listen to your brain. and it gets a lot more exciting.. The next time you watch someone pull off some insane finger combo's you understand how hard it really is

Re:

[k_187]

Exactly, Guitar Hero is to Guitar Playing what kareoke is to Singing. Its not about what you're doing, its how you're doing it.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

I would equate it more to lip syncing. To be good at Karaoke, you still have to know how to sing. To be good at lip syncing, you just have to move you lips in time with the music.

Re:Not that exciting

[east coast]

All you have to do is press the right buttons at the right time.

Isn't that all any video game is really?

But we see the exceptions if we think about it and that's why there is a current trend in gaming. Namely the Wii and Guitar Hero. We're use to the game pad or WASD controls. The Wii and Guitar Hero leads us to a different style of play that is exciting to people. For Guitar Hero it's people's chance to play on a "real" guitar without the years of practice it would take to play these same songs for real.

In the case of the Wii people are all up on a different controller style too. The idea of waving one's hand and making something happen on-screen is a form of magic to most people.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

Yes, theoretically that's all any video game is about. However, Guitar Hero lets you play the same level over and over again, memorizing the same moves. Contrast that to other games, where there is a little randomness thrown in, so you can't just press the exact same buttons you did last time in order to repeat your performance. Or contrast even further with games where you play against people, where you have to think even more, and adapt to their strategies, because they are adapting to yours, and it be

Re:

[C0rinthian]

I hate to burst your bubble, but memorization is the way to play that game on the harder levels. You think a player doing Through the Fire and Flame on expert is actually reacting to what's coming down the fretboard? Hell no, they've worked on it enough that they already have all the patterns down to muscle memory.

From the perspective of 'real' musicians, memorization is very common. Just about anything I played in a concert was memorized. Sheet music was up for reference only. You're watching a condu

Re:

[Rary]

"If you could go through and memorize the hundreds and even thousands of notes on all of the songs, then you would be some sort of... memorizing guy with lots of stuff memorized."

Um, how do you think real guitarists play real guitars? There's no screen showing me what notes to play when I'm on stage with my band. And I know far more songs than you'll find in all the GH games combined. I guess I'm some sort of... memorizing guy with lots of stuff memorized.

Trying to follow the notes on screen at the high

Re:

[zerkon]

I played piano for 16 years, memorized (and forgotten) hundreds of songs in that time. Yet rarely could I tell you (without a piano sitting in front of me) what any of the notes were that I was playing. For me it was a form of procedural memory. Your hands start in this position, then after a certain time they move to this position... repeat a few hundred times and that's Chopin's Prelude in D flat. It's interesting to me because I'm VERY bad at memorizing things like facts and numbers, but procedurally my

Re:

[aicrules]

Perhaps not as exciting to watch as people playing DDR in public, but just as dorky...BOY BANDS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

Re:

[MaWeiTao]

I saw this kid playing it at some game store and it seemed like a neat game. What really struck me, however, was all the clacking that came from the controller itself. For me it hurts immersion when the controller is making the same kinds of noises as a cheap keyboard.

Re:

[NeilTheStupidHead]

I had the same problem when I first picked up GH2 after playing it at a party, I came up with two solutions:
1) Turn the music up. Obviously, if you can't hear yourself think, you can't hear the guitar click.
2) Be gentle. The clicking spring only makes noise if you hammer on the strum button or release it quickly. I can play on hard and expert, only moving the strum button a small degree of it's full range of motion, just enough to trigger the switch in the guitar, without the clicking.
3) It isn't the

Re:

[cowscows]

Sadly in most game stores you can't turn the volume of the game up all that much. I'm not one of those people who drives down the street with his car stereo shaking all the vehicles around him, but when you get into the game and you're having fun pretending you're a rock star, you pretty much feel the need to crank the volume. And then you don't hear the plastic at all.

And if you take it in a different direction, and are trying to play the game 100% technically perfect, the clicking is a good indication tha

Re:

[my $anity 0]

Watching someone play DDR is definitely more fun.
Especially if said someone is a cute girl (or guy, depending on how your attractions lie).

But, then again, most games weren't meant to be watched, they were meant to be played.
Prince of Persia is an exception.

Re:

[cei]

And yet Dragon's Lair [wikipedia.org] made boatloads of money on the same concept back in the day.

(And Simon was more memory, and less rhythm based.)

There is only 1 answer:

[Reaper9889]

"There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself"

Johann Sebastian Bach

Re:

[eln]

Let me translate for you:

Kid who is very skilled at a game decides to play the game on the demo unit at the store. Kid does very well. A few people stop for a few seconds to watch him play, as people tend to do when others are playing the demo units, especially if they're doing well. Kid finishes playing, one or two people clap briefly, people leave.

The rest is just storytelling. The author was impressed by someone who was obviously far better at the game than he could ever be, but he was being a little

Re:Wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the translation, Captain Miserable.

Re:Wait...

[zero_offset]

If by "a little melodramatic" you mean "cloyingly fawning like some kind of loser who probably needs therapy," then yes, by all means, his interpretation was a little melodramatic.

Re:Wait...

[keytoe]

A guy goes out fishing. He catches a marlin. As he is bringing it home, sharks eat it.

The rest is just storytelling. The author was clearly being melodramatic.

Re:Wait...

[east coast]

Come on people. It's a damned game.

Tell yourself that the next time that it's ESPN or ESPN2 or The NFL channel or any other number of sports channels that guys gladly pay money to see people playing a game. It's a big business.

Granted, the story is a bit gonzo but every game has it's fans that are going to make it out to be more than it is. Why not let the geeks be happy about it for a minute.

Re:

[Colin Smith]

Tell yourself that the next time that it's ESPN or ESPN2 or The NFL channel or any other number of sports channels that guys gladly pay money to see people playing a game. It's a big business.

Indeed. It's an opportunity to sell the slackjawed masses vast quantities of cheap plastic crap at truly mindbending markups.

 

The kid is probably not the Roger Federer of GH...

[Jeremy.DeGroot]

But TFA reminded me of this piece [nytimes.com].

Tennis is also a "damned game," but fans of the sport know it can be a venue for people to do amazing, humbling things. I don't play Guitar Hero, so I wouldn't appreciate the performance in the Best Buy. I expect that as a GH fan, the author had the same experience that millions of tennis fans have had watching Roger dominate the men's tour for the last half-decade. Think about the last time you were wowed at a concert, or at an art museum. Think about touring one of Europe's beautiful cathedrals. There's a reason that they build them that big, and that beautiful. The architecture, and the art all around you, helps people find God. Tennis and Guitar Hero can be art too, and can have the same effect if you know what you're seeing.

Re:

[MrShaggy]

I can remember wayyyy back..

When the local Macs Milk. We got the first video game.
Kids were crammed around it for hours. Fascinated by what was happening.

It doesn't happen so much anymore, because they is not so much a public display of skill.
I think that is why the pro-gamer thing has taken off.

There is an audience because the people that were looking at these people playng that game, are the ones who are the spectators.

Re:

[brkello]

Play the game. When you see how challenging it can be it becomes easy to understand why it would be fun to watch the game played on its highest level. Even if you have experience playing a musical instrument (I play the violin), it still is very challenging.

Re:

[Volante3192]

What gets me is this kid gets a crowd around him for a video game.

Joshua Bell, one of the foremost violin players on the planet, with a Strad, incognito at a D.C. metro station can't get more than 5 people to stop and listen while he plays.

Re:Wait...

[WinterSolstice]

Shoppers are not commuters. Commuters have trains to catch. Shoppers are just killing time.

When I am trying to catch a train it wouldn't matter *who* was playing - if I miss my train and am late to work it'll matter a whole lot more.

Re:

[AuMatar]

Well, to be fair, most people including myself wouldn't know what a strad looked like. Now if he had a sign on pointing out its a strad, he'd recieve a lot of attention. Mainly from muggers, but still lots of attention.

Re:

[HuguesT]

Music is very easy, it's only a matter of hitting the right keys at the right time.

J.S. Bach

Re:

[sayfawa]

Stop being so mean to him. He's probably around here somewhere and he may have mod points. We should go to some less dorky forum and make fun of him there.

Re:soooo

[Psmylie]

If you take the time to get good at something, why not enjoy the benefits? It's not hurting anyone, it might drive interest in the game (good for the manufacturer and for the resailer) and if people enjoy watching, it's good for them too. As long as he doesn't develop his self-worth around how well he plays Guitar Hero, I don't see a problem with it

But it's so COOL to look jaded and cynical!

[spun]

Certain very insecure dorks need to put down anything others think is cool, in order to try to look big and important, like they've seen it all and nothing can impress them. They only end up looking cool to other insecure dorks who will then put them down behind their backs. Adults don't give a rats ass what talkers say, we care about what doers do, and insecure jaded cynical children don't usually do much of anything.

You know what's cooler than jaded cynicism? Enthusiasm. We don't want to hear how you could have done it better. Show us. We don't need you to point out that it's "been done." Do it, or don't, but don't shit on our graham crackers and call it a s'more.

Re:

[MadHatter2005]

insecure jaded cynical children don't usually do much of anything

You are absolutely correct. Now that I'm a bit older I look at all the 'cool' hyper-cynical friends that I used to hang around with. They haven't done much with their lives, because creating something new necessitates a bit of risk, and oh god, what if you fail? Then all the other jaded and cynical folks you hang out with might make fun of you.

Re:

[spun]

You know what's worse than being a guy and sucking cocks? Using the word, "Fagtastic." If you don't like it, why comment? Just to make yourself seem better than others, even if it's just in your eyes. You try to belittle my motives, because you have no worthwhile motivations yourself.

From your post, it's clear that you live in an empty world, devoid of friends, human connection, and meaning. Your pain and anger are so great you lash out anonymously against anyone who seems to be positive, because we show wh

Re:

[spun]

Fuck that. You are obviously intelligent. Don't give up. I've been there, most smart people have. The world is fucked up and you can't come out of it unscathed. I've considered suicide at times, my wife has, plenty of our friends have, but thinking you'd be better off not being born is bullshit. You wouldn't even have the luxury to make that choice, now would you?

How much therapy have you tried? I've been in therapy for years on and off and I'm better off than I was. Your pain and anger are there for a reas

Re:

[techpawn]

If you take the time to get good at something, why not enjoy the benefits? It's not hurting anyone, it might drive interest in the game

Like the people who "freestyle" DDR. It draws people over to watch the monkey dance then some stick around to try the game and/or talk to the player (who may or may not be a jerk about it).

Re:

[Stefanwulf]

Seriously, did you never hang out at an arcade growing up? Even if you grew up before video arcades, you'd have found someone who was king of the local pinball tables. People like showing off their skills, and people like watching a skilled performance. Public displays of personal skill have a long, deep-seated tradition in many, many cultures, and are a driving force in many non-team sports, and even some team ones such as the pick-up basketball games played in inner cities. It's really not that strang

Re:I don't get it

[nlawalker]

[[In the time it takes to get that good at GH, you could learn to play the guitar for real.]] It's really easy to say that, but I don't think it's true. I five-star songs here and there on expert (none of the insanely hard ones) and I've only been playing for a month or two. Unlike a real guitar, I don't have to spend time learning songs by playing sections over and over, I can just pick up the controller and shred. It's a lot of fun, and very satisfying.

Re:

[paleo2002]

Its the fantasy element. I could go take fencing lessons, but that doesn't mean I'll get to slay monsters. I could take guitar lessons, but I might never be good enough to play my favorite rock songs. My brother is a great guitarist, self-taught, and he's still looking forward to GH under the tree.

Re:I don't get it

[ivan256]

As somebody learning to play the guitar, let me tell you... It is much harder to learn to play a real guitar with any decency than it is to be fairly good at guitar hero. At least for me it is... You can do quite well at guitar hero after a couple tries. It can take months, or years to be any good at all at a real guitar.

But that's not the point, anyway. The reason people play guitar hero is because it's fun. It's fun like karaoke night at your local bar, and a party video game all at once.

Re:I don't get it

[cowscows]

I learned to play guitar hero reasonably competently in about an hour. After that hour, I was good enough that I could enjoy playing some of the harder songs, and pretend for just a moment that I was a rock star. That's what the game is about, and it serves its purpose very well. And if you give Rock Band a try with some friends, you'll see even more potential there.

Comparing playing GH to learning a real instrument is missing the point.

Re:

[Is0m0rph]

To quote South Park: "Guitars are for old people"

Re:I don't get it

[bobintetley]

They're two completely different things. I've played guitar for 20 years and I can play most of the tracks in Guitar Hero on a real guitar. I've also five starred every song on expert in every Guitar Hero game (with the exception of Jordan and TTFATF).

Guitar Hero is fun. It's not the same as playing a real instrument, nor will it give you the skills you need to play a real instrument. It's a blast in itself and great fun if you have friends over (or play online). When playing at expert level, most of the songs are actually way more difficult to play on Guitar Hero than they are on a real guitar (granted, to someone who can already play) because of the limited button interface, this just serves to make it even more satisfying when you pull it off.

I suggest you try it with an open mind before you knock it - you might just find you enjoy it. Just see it for what it is - an excellent piece of entertainment.

Re:

[Mateito]

> I've played guitar for 20 years

Here's me thinking "gee, you must be so old if you've been playing guitar for 20 years", then I worked out that its been 21 years since I first picked up a guitar... so now I'm feeling old.

Difference between you and me is that my guitar playing is like my handwriting: I might have been doing it for a long time, but its still all scribbly and unreadable. :/

Re:

[toolie]

In the time it takes to get that good at GH, you could learn to play the guitar for real.

Spoken like somebody that has never played either GH or a real guitar. A real guitar can take years of dedicated practice to play some of the songs you get to play in the GH series. There is a reason it is as popular as it is.

Re:

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Dude, If you're playing guitar to learn how to play other people songs... You're missing the point. The game version mimics the glory, while robbing the soul.

Re:

[gad_zuki!]

>In the time it takes to get that good at GH, you could learn to play the guitar for real.

Bullshit. It took me weeks just to be able to hold down 12 open chords and one barre chord without muting the other strings. Just getting my hands used to such strange positions is an exercise in pain and frustration.

It took me 30-45 minutes to be able to play GH at medium without many failed songs.

Re:I don't get it

[Beardo the Bearded]

No, you can't "get good" at an instrument in a few months. If you think you're good after that short a time, then you're just "wearing the juice" or you're a virtuoso.

I started playing my instrument in 1989. I'm now pretty good, but I'd still consider myself a "B-list" player. There are people who are far superior than me. (I play the euphonium. Technically, I play the Baritone Horn, but if I say that, people always say, "the sax?") I can still play the full range of my instrument, get higher than most other players, and I can circular breathe. I can also sing reasonably well. None of my musical talent was gained over a few months. It takes YEARS of dedicated practice to get good.

My brother started playing bass guitar at about the same time. He's been able to land a few paying gigs. He's quite talented but has spent almost all of his time in the last decade playing guitar.

Guitar Hero (like almost any other game) is an escapist fantasy game. That's all there is to it. And when you really get down to it, it's really just Simon with a really slick wrapper.

as someone who's clocked 2000+ hrs on real guitar

[ClioCJS]

and 1000+ hrs on rhythm games... Simply put, you're wrong. And you're full of yourself too. Rhythm skills transfer to all instruments. If you can play Guitar Hero on expert, all you've got to learn is the fretboard and NOTES to play guitar; in terms of the rhythm, you've already learned. Of course, I did it backwards. 10+ years of guitar playing, THEN guitar hero. Got through 80% of songs in "HARD" mode in 1 try. I still got the rhythm, and 5 buttons is extremely easy compared to a guitar. The point be

Re:

[mstahl]

There was an interesting post on Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] a few days ago about just exactly this sort of mentality. Now, I'm not going to be an asshole about it like Tycho was, but really you're missing the point. And I say this as an avid player of Guitar Hero who has had seven years of formal spanish classical guitar training. The two are similar exercises, and I feel sometimes when I'm playing Guitar Hero that I instinctively play like I play a real guitar, but it's not really the same and both are satisfying for di

Re:

[Mayhem178]

But then again the nerds who play Guitar Hero wouldn't want to get a sore finger...

You're obviously never played Guitar Hero.

Likewise, they wouldn't want to have any real talent :)

This says it all [ctrlaltdel-online.com].

Re:

[C0rinthian]

Likewise, they wouldn't want to have any real talent :)

Work ethic is worth a hell of a lot more than talent. Just about anyone can play an instrumet or sing, or dance, or whatever. Some people have talent and start out a little more proficient than others. That head start is worthless if they don't have the work ethic to do anything with it.

Re:

[ak_hepcat]

Actually, they do.

http://www.fretlight.com/ [fretlight.com]

All you need to do is figure out how to get a driver for this to work with
frets-on-fire.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

Why don't they make a guitar hero with a real guitar.. and you actually have to match the pitch..

Because you don't have to match pitch on a real guitar either (except when checking that the strings are in tune). Like in GH, on a real guitar, you just have to press between two frets, and it's designed so that the string is shortened to the right length for that pitch.

You must be thinking of a violin/viola/cello/bass.

That's not to say they couldn't make it *more* like a guitar. E.g. have six rows of buttons

Re:

[Xzazarill]

Seriously, you people are starting to sound like a broken record. Why bother to post a comment like this when what seems like half the internet has already said it?

And it's a poorly thought-out thing to say in the first place. Why don't Tony Hawk players go out and actually skateboard? Why don't DDR players just go find a real dancefloor? Why don't Madden players grab a real football?

Because the video games are FUN, so SHUT UP.