Do Gamers Enjoy Dying in First-Person-Shooters? 309
Ponca City, We Love You writes "Brandon Erickson has an interesting post about an experiment on players' emotional reactions to killing and being killed in a first-person shooters (FPS) with a group of students who played James Bond 007: Nightfire while their facial expressions and physiological activity were tracked and recorded moment-to-moment via electrodes and various other monitoring equipment. The study found that "death of the player's own character...appear[s] to increase some aspects of positive emotion." The authors believe this may result from the temporary "relief from engagement" brought about by character death. "Part of this has to do with the intriguing aesthetic question of precisely how the first-person-shooter represents the player after the moment of death," says Clive Thompson. "This sudden switch in camera angle — from first person to third person — is, in essence, a classic out-of-body experience, of exactly the sort people describe in near-death experiences. And much like real-life near-death experiences, it tends to suffuse me with a curiously zen-like feeling." An abstract of the original article, "The psychophysiology of James Bond: Phasic emotional responses to violent video game events" is available on the web." Obnoxiously this alleged scholarly research is not available for free, so we'll just have to speculate wildly what it says based on the abstract.
I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
It always annoyed me to spend a great deal of time moving my character into a unique hiding spot, only to have someone suicide rush me after my position was betrayed by the after-death features that pointed directly to my location.
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
I typically do, but 'Real snipers' aren't faced with an opponent who can resurrect themselves within 30 seconds and reach your old position in another 15.
My preference has less to do with playing the game as a sniper (my least favorite role actually) and more to do with playing the game as a commander and being able to hide my team's movements from the opposing team. Unfortunately that isn' really possible against an organized team unless you are at a LAN party and strictly enforce rules regarding 'speaking with the dead'.
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Interesting)
One person on the marines was the 'commander' and had a top down C&C style view. He could give orders, set waypoints, hand out weapons, and progress through an upgrade tree. The rest of the marines were just plain old FPS style, but relied on the commander to keep them supplied as they fought.
The aliens on the other hand, had no leader, but information was shared between them (If one alien saw an enemy, the rest of the players could 'sense' that enemy, and you would receive notification that an area was under attack, etc. Just no central leadership mode)
It was a game that I greatly enjoyed. I remember it when it was fairly beta, had a few chats with Charlie Cleveland (he likely won't remember, but I did appreciate his discussions about building up Unknown Worlds). I sincerely hope that it grows since it got a lot of things 'right'.
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:4, Funny)
It's great. I love it when people get really pissed because I do it to them over and over because they cant pick a new spot to camp.
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:4, Insightful)
Suicide bombing can be a brilliant tactic, at least in fantasy worlds where death is survivable and you get to respawn immediately afterwards; a bit unrealistic unless you can imagine some fool convinced that that's the case in reality, so not one for those of us who like a simulation more than a fragfest. I remember a Quake map that had a big ol' moat around a central keep. A lot of warren-like tunnels dropped people into that moat, so there were generally quite a few in there. So, the plan: First, find the electric gun. Second, jump in the water. Third, ZZZZZAP!
Sure, I take a penalty for killing myself, but I took a half-dozen guys with me. Oh, how it pissed them off.
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After this camper gets shot in the head, I like to watch the angry guy who I fragged like 4 times shoot up my dead body in rage and stand statue while he types something obscene.
I then usually quip, "Not dead yet! Go back and shot me some more!"
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As for 'enjoying' death, I can't say I particularly enjoy it, but I know it's going to happen eventually, and I would say it's not happiness so much as 'satisfaction.' I feel satisfied if I have a good run before dying. On the other hand, if I get knifed right outsi
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"The facial EMG is an
established index of hedonic valence; that is, increased activity over corrugator supercilii, which
draws the brow down and together into a frown, is associated with negative emotions, whereas
increased activity over zygomaticus major, which pulls the corners of the mouth back and up in
Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Funny)
There is a MEC manning the machine gunner position right next to the train wreck on Karkand. I manage to move around and get behind him, so I rush up on him and slice him with the knife. 1 kill. I then run around the other side of the concrete barrier and slice up a sniper who had been laying next to him on the other side of the fence (and somehow didn't see me.) 2 kills. I whip out my assault rifle and pop another MEC running down the bridge straight in the face with two three-shot bursts. 3 kills. Load up the grenade launcher attachment on the rifle, and take out a group of two MEC running next to each other across the bridge. 4 and 5 kills. By this time, four of my squad-mates have joined me in trying to cap the point...and I get sniped. Exhilarated, I sit back for a second...5 kills in a time span of ~30 seconds...I'm quite pleased with myself.
A medic revives me, only to have me instantly die from a grenade. Well crap, it happens. I spawn literally in the middle of a firefight near the large concrete ramp, in that little town square...end up getting teamkilled (i forgave the guy because his grenade got 2 MECs as well). I get rezzed, and get sniped. The same medic comes back and rezzes me. I take one step forward, and blow up a claymore. I respawn right next to the tracks this time, and before I can even move I get killed by an artillary strike.
I never took more than a step after respawning before I got taken out again. This went on for a total of 7 times. I had to disconnect from the game, I couldn't stop laughing:-)
Spawn camping bothers me...these kinds of things humour me.
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I don't know...I can take pleasure in someone else's skill/luck, same as I can take pleasure in my own skill/luck. I can take pleasure in my own hilariously improbable death, or my own stupidity. Rocket bounce a sniper off his high camping perch, and have him nail
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If I die because of an opponent's skill, it's fun to be able to sit back and admire the effort. If I die because some idiot thinks good gamesmanship is a matter of finding the shortest and easiest path to a kill, the fun stops and annoyance sets in.
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It matters when my friend dies and tells me where the person who killed them is (or that they all ran back after he died..or that they ran in and had the bomb, etc).
I personally think it would lead to a more skillful game if you needed to communicate what you saw BEFORE you get killed, but thats never going to happen as even if you convinced your team not to ghost, you know the other team will do it against you.
Theres
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I do love TF2, but it is definately a world apart from games like Red Orchestra.
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Re:I prefer instant blackout (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, I would say that death can be considered part of the game.
Perhaps... (Score:4, Interesting)
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The searing heat is a bother though. Wish they'd install air conditioning.
Maybe it's like gambling (Score:5, Interesting)
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Actually, the really good games make it feel good to loose or at least you made the opposing team pay for every inch of ground. There is a popular mod turned retail called "Red Orchestra" in which some maps are impossible to win, but very difficult to win.
Moltke Bridge is a good example in which the Germans are defending Berlin from the Russians in where the Russians have su
not with every game... (Score:5, Funny)
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I like it if I get pwned (Score:2)
There are some people who are almost inhuman in their ability to aim with a mouse. This is recognizable depending on the situation
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Those "people" are more properly called "bots".
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Not everyone that is outstanding at an FPS is a bot. I have a friend who is very much like FPS_Doug (from Pure Pwnage) in
Re:I like it if I get pwned (Score:4, Funny)
The ex freaked out over the second one; it had someone in a Kenny skin getting fragged with a sample from South Park saying "you bastard!" The future Evil-X was not amused. "That better not be one of MY kids!"
A matter of "fair" (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the commentary track, they closely watched the reaction of play testers when they died or otherwise failed. If they laughed as they died, they know they did the right thing. If they swore like a drunk sailor, something may need to be tweaked.
It all boiled down to a matter of perceived fairness. In your case, even though you were bested, you had fun because you knew that, fundamentally, you lost fair and square. However, if you discovered that kid with the unbelievable aim was cheating, I'm guessing you'd find that a lot less fun simply because it wasn't fair.
Same thing goes for puzzle games, single-player games, and MMO's. If the game is fair, you can have fun even if you fail. If the game isn't fair (i.e. the player has almost no chance of succeeding or the difficulty is far far too high), then no amount of playing will make it fun.
Shows that you have real opponents (Score:2)
Right. I think it also gives a little bit of satisfaction to feel that you're playing against a worthy opponent. Part of the fun of a FPS is the constant feeling of danger. If you never get killed, you don't feel threatened at all, and it's just target practice. Getting killed affirms that the competition is real, and increases your resolve to fight harder or smarter.
death for a good cause is satisfying (Score:5, Interesting)
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Ups N Downs of Dying (Score:2)
Spawn killing and Tking piss me off,M'kay?
Urban Terror Rules!
Only when interesting... (Score:5, Insightful)
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From a nice wee sniping spot, I zap Lerc into oblivion at long range with a railgun as he's running across my field of view. While I'm giggling like a maniac, I failed to notice that he's launched a rocket at me an instant before he snuffed it. Three second later, I'm staring right into the nose cone of a rocket that appeared to grow out from the crosshair, wondering what on Earth could the strange, symmetrical object be. "Hey, isn't that a..." (Shades of The Noah's
tail end of a quake quad rocket (Score:4, Insightful)
I recall the glory days of quake world. There was no feeling like camping in the dark and seeing a quad rocket launcher coming in your direction. You just knew it was over the only thing you could do was pay homage to whichever POS it was who sighted you hung on some rune in a dark corner.
Sometimes I like dying in an FPS (Score:5, Funny)
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Zen state my ass... (Score:5, Funny)
For example, spawning on a grendade that kills you about 0.5 seconds after you come back usually elicits the following response: "&%#! you mother #@%!$&, that was bull$&#!"
A different analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a much more simple explanation. Players like it because it means that they're not being ignored. Having "friends" that pay attention to you is a huge plus for geeks.
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Having friends that pay attention to you is a huge plus for anybody.
Re:A different analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
"Dying" in an online game is nothing like dying. You are not faced with any finality. It is not the ultimate sacrifice and not the grim reaper that comes to us all, without option. It's just part of your participation in the game, a small set-back, a respite from the action.
So any comparison with the zen of after-life experience is the biggest load of hooey you're likely to encounter this week.
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Obnoxious? (Score:2)
http://www.digra.org:8080/Plone/dl/db/06278.36196.pdf [digra.org]
(It's an earlier version of the work.)
Yeah I enjoy dying (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah right (Score:2)
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Therefor swearing has positive emotional aspects. No surprise there.
not this gamer (Score:3, Informative)
Imagine that German kid from the youtube video (i'd link if I wasn't at work).. and that's basically me.. except I'm a bit older, not quite a pudgy, speak English.. and only rant for about 10 seconds.
Re:not this gamer (Score:4, Funny)
007 Nightfire (Score:5, Funny)
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New players? (Score:2)
Depends Call OF Duty 4 Example (Score:5, Insightful)
What gets me angry, cursing and fuming, is dieing pointlessly to helicopters, martyrdom and other elements which detract from skillful play. I also dislike dieing after spawning with my back to someone pointing a gun to my head, or dieing from a grenade that landed right where I was spawning.
So I think it really comes down to what kind of "death" it is.
Further research. (Score:2)
I'm not sure I can agree as I have few points for comparison, so a little research is in order. Let me get a warn bath going and a straight blade and I'll get back to you in a bit ... #`%${%&`+'${`%& - NO CARRIER.
Goldeneye (Score:3, Informative)
Text of Journal Article (1 Table and Plot omitted) (Score:5, Informative)
By: Niklas Ravaja
Center for Knowledge and Innovation Research, Helsinki School of Economics, Helsinki, Finland
Marko Turpeinen
Helsinki Institute for Information Technology, Helsinki University of Technology, Helsinki, Finland
Timo Saari
Center for Knowledge and Innovation Research, Helsinki School of Economics, Helsinki, Finland
Sampsa Puttonen
Department of Psychology, University of Helsinki, Finland
Liisa Keltikangas-Järvinen
Department of Psychology, University of Helsinki, Finland
Acknowledgement: This study was supported by the Finnish Funding Agency for Technology and Innovation and European Community NEST project 28765: "The Fun of Gaming: Measuring the Human Experience of Media Enjoyment."
Correspondence concerning this article should be addressed to: Niklas Ravaja, Center for Knowledge and Innovation Research, Helsinki School of Economics, P.O. Box 1210, FIN-00101, Helsinki, Finland Electronic Mail may be sent to: ravaja@hse.fi.
We know very little about phasic emotional responses elicited by violent video game events, although they might mediate the potential harmful effects of violent games (Ravaja, Saari, Salminen, Laarni, & Kallinen, 2006). Several (although not all) authors have concluded that there is a causal relationship between violent video game play and aggressive behavior, cognitions, and affect (for meta-analyses, see Anderson, 2004; Anderson & Bushman, 2001; for an alternative meta-analysis, see Sherry, 2001). Violent games may elicit not only self-reported aggressive affect (i.e., feelings of anger or hostility) but also anxiety (fear; Anderson & Ford, 1986). An apparent limitation of the studies using self-report to measure emotional responses is that they neglect the fact that different game events may elicit different, even opposing, emotional responses (Ravaja, Saari, Salminen, et al., 2006). Prior studies have also shown that exposure to violent video games increases physiological arousal (e.g., Ballard & Weist, 1996; for a meta-analysis, see Anderson & Bushman, 2001). However, these studies have used tonic measures (e.g., 1-min mean physiological values) that give no information on responses elicited by specific, instantaneous game events.
The present study was designed to examine phasic psychophysiological responses indexing emotional valence and arousal elicited by violent events in the first-person shooter video game "James Bond 007: NightFire." Facial electromyographic (EMG) activity over zygomaticus major and corrugator supercilii was used to index positive and negative emotions, respectively (e.g., Lang, Greenwald, Bradley, & Hamm, 1993; Ravaja, 2004a), and orbicularis oculi activity was used to index positively valenced high-arousal emotions (Ravaja, Saari, Kallinen, & Laarni, 2006; Witvliet & Vrana, 1995). Electrodermal activity (EDA) was used as an index of arousal (Ravaja, 2004a). Obviously, violent video games (e.g., first-person shooters) involve at least two different types of events that might elicit differential emotional responses: (a) The player (or player's character) wounds or kills an opponent and (b) the opponent wounds or kills the player's character. Given that wounding or killing an opponent represents a victory and a success in the game (and in a real gun fight), these events might elicit positively valenced arousal as indexed by facial EMG activity and EDA (Hypothesis 1a). However, the deeply ingrained moral code says that injuring or killing another human being is wrong, and symbolic aggression enacted by the player may elicit anxiety (see Anderson & Ford, 1986). Therefore, an alternative hypothesis would be that wounding or killing an opponent would elicit negatively valenced arousal (i.e., anxiety) as indexed by increased EDA and corrugator EMG activity and decreased zygomatic and orbicularis oculi activity (Hypothesis 1b).
Individuals scoring high on the Psychotici
Research? (Score:3, Informative)
I hope they didn't spend a huge amount of money on this research. Unless you're the rankest amateur, your character will probably survive until you get into a fairly impossible situation. So basically, you're 100% focussed, concentrating, fingers going crazy on whatever control mechanism you're using. I almost guarantee the last thing you did as that final bad guy popped up and you couldn't get your sights on him in time was pound on the fire button in a futile attempt to do the impossible. Then, all of a sudden, you're done. You take a deep breath, blink a few times, roll your shoulders, relax all those cramped muscles and maybe reach for your beer.
Wouldn't that pretty much account for whatever readings they're getting? Or, to put it a little less elegantly, "I got your 'intriguing aesthetic question' right here".
Dying means you're being challenged (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dying means you're being challenged (Score:5, Insightful)
I know when I die in multiplayer games, my face kinda lights up like, "Aw, shit! How'd he get me!?" It's just kinda the nature of the beast, isn't it?
Dying means you're being challenged (Score:2)
Absolutely. My bestfriend and I had a great day playing paintball against off-duty marines. We went for the day and just joined up with the group, so all of their team and the rest of our team were marines. Needless to say we both died A LOT that day, but every kill we did get; hell every minute we survived out there against them was immensely gratifying.
You mean people ENJOY playing games (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, I get that satisfaction... (Score:2, Funny)
That way I can use the voice chat to rub it in their faces after the fact
End of the Ride (Score:2, Insightful)
If you run the same test on roller coaster passengers, I suspect that many might show a similar response at the end of the ride. At that point, you might reflect on your total experience. If you had a good time, you might smile desire to go again. If you're disappointed, your face might sag into a "What? That's it?" expression.
When I played Counter-Strike, I'd be very pleased upon my death if I managed to take down more than two opponents per round. Death is just the end of the ride and getting upset
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride: ends in hell (Score:5, Interesting)
As you emerge after your "collision," the final scene in the ride show numerous devils with tridents.
If Walt Disney, always a good judge of such things, thought that kids would enjoy the virtual experience, not merely of dying, but of being consigned to eternal damnation, it does not seems a far stretch to assume that gamers may enjoy it as well.
Re:Mr. Toad's Wild Ride: ends in hell (Score:5, Funny)
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Team Fortress 2 is a perfect example (Score:5, Insightful)
A good game is one that acknowledges that the task you're given is too big for just one guy, but that's all you are. Play in the world and try unconventional tactics. If you fail, fail spectacularly. It's less fun to do so in the real world.
@ -- your liver
Duh! (Score:2)
Of course I keep coming back for more, so you never know...
What about appreciating a good kill? (Score:2)
No. (Score:4, Funny)
(clicks before are ignored).
Zen-like, indeed (Score:2)
Your end which is endless is as a snowflake dissolving in pure air.
It Could be Much More Simple (Score:2)
kudos (Score:2)
Oh, there's just one problem here... (Score:3, Insightful)
So, sure, if you're willing to accept that premise, then this study is great. If not, it's just another in a long line of studies that suggest, but do not convincingly prove, what emotions can be generated by particular events. Really, this study just again points out how insanely difficult it is to get to a "ground truth" of what emotions people experience.
And yes, I've read the article -- I happen to have electronic access to the journal.
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What really made them happy (Score:2)
Depends on the game (Score:2)
if its a multi-player game durring a LAN party.. maybe.. cause it would be a good time to re-fill my glass
if its a demolition derby (Flatout) Hell yeah! cuase it is usually pretty damn entertaining to watch the rerun!
Science? (Score:2)
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Well of course (Score:2)
Getting killed is disappointing. But it might also be the first time in 30 minutes you can unclench your sphincter and take a deep breath, maybe lean back in your chair while the respawn counter ticks down.
Homorous deaths (Score:2)
I used to play the original Quake, and I was so bad it was ridiculous. Custom levels with pits became a constant source of problem. The funniest events where when you got 200 health + 200 armor + regeneration, and you are buffeted about by multiple rockets
IANAP (Psychologist), but... (Score:3, Interesting)
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That is likely also an emotion experienced and undocumented.
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Re:You wouldn't enjoy it against this guy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You wouldn't enjoy it against this guy (Score:5, Funny)
Why, the Flying Spagetti Monster of course! He'll never leave you room for desert, always quite satisifying!
Re:You wouldn't enjoy it against this guy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You wouldn't enjoy it against this guy (Score:5, Funny)
You, um, want your teammates to gather around your rag-doll body or pile of giblets mourning you until you press the space bar and come back to life?
You know who wouldn't do that?
Um...the Marines, I guess?
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I know who!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 [youtube.com]
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Mexican is worse though.
Re:Do gamers enjoy kimchi in first person shooters (Score:2)
This is South Korea's Mohammed.