Mass Effect DRM Still Causing Issues 593
An anonymous reader writes "There was some discussion last month about the proposed DRM for Mass Effect and Spore that required the game to phone home every ten days. They backed down from that, but have left in that a user is only allowed 3 activations per license key. A license key is burned up when the O/S is reinstalled, when certain hardware is upgraded (EA refuses to disclose specifics of what), and possibly when a new user is set up in Windows. Only in its first month, some users are already locked out of their games from trying troubleshooting techniques to get the game running."
Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Protection like this certainly doesn't encourage paying for the game when the free version is better.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Informative)
5 minutes and 3 no CD exes later my game runs even better.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the time my disc is in a different room, or packed away. And I usually forget to put the CD back, so I'll have to hunt around to remember where I put it. Having to place it into the drive just increases the likelihood that it'll be scratched.
It also usually has the unpleasant side effect of making it hard or impossible to run via wine or emulator.
Seriously, the commercial pirates are a lot better at providing a compelling install service than the studios are. It's really hard for me to believe that the "good" guys are the ones that are making it impossible to reinstall the game an unlimited number of times.
Considering how often Windows has to be reinstalled, I can't imagine how this could ever fly.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
If they couldn't pirate, then one would assume sales would go up.
Thats the theory behind it all.
The theory falls short because its always remained easy to pirate the game. Download the game, then crack the exe. For some this will be out of their league, and its those people that casual DRM is most effective on.
Taking an arms race on DRM on those that know how to crack a game will achieve nothing, because game publishers are far too outnumbered to put up a real fight.
However in their attempt, a lot of innocent customers are getting are getting caught in the cross-fire. From having CD's fail to be read due to improper FAT tables, system instabilities from malware running in the background, and now license key lockouts.
The sad part is, DRM on games just isn't effective, and whats worse, for all those pirates that don't/won't purchase a game, i strongly suspect they boost the legal sales of the game indirectly (viral marketing)
I've been forced to cracking games I've legally purchased just to get around their DRM lockouts. And the more DRM they add to the games, the faster I'll resort to cracking.
Moral of this rant was best said by vader:
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Funny)
How do you manage to get the quote verbatim, but misattribute it so badly?
Re:Vote with your wallet (Score:5, Insightful)
And in buying the game, you voted with your wallet for copy protection. If a game or other software uses copy protection and I know about it, I vote against it. Viral marketing and word of mouth support all die with the purchase not made.
I don't pirate it. I just don't use it. There are alternatives.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me put it this way. Would you hand a bare CD you didn't want to have to buy another copy of to six year old?
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
If you assume that the user is on a desktop sits next to his shelf full of game discs. On the other hand, if the user has a laptop (which may not even have an optical drive) and doesn't feel like lugging all his game discs around with him all the time, it is a huge inconvenience -- so much of one, in fact, that he'd be very likely to pirate the game out of pure spite!
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
For someone who travels frequently and having been bitten by having the CD case without the CD in it on arrival, A CD check copy protection is the number 2 reason on my list for not buying a program. It's right behind the dongle and right above online phone home checks. No dongle, no CD, or no internet are 3 modes if inexcusable failure. Packing light without all the baggage is required. Anything less devalues the software greatly. My laptop has a failing CD drive. It does somewhat OK with commercial CDs, but CDR playback is quite unreliable. CD read copy protection is unreliable for the laptop.
which is really the best any copy protection scheme can ever hope for
No it isn't. A one time registration providing a key with your registration detail is all that is required. I fill out and send in a registration form either online or snail mail and they send back a key. The key then when used with the software, unlocks it and proudly displays "Registered to Technician" (real contact information). I can re-install it as many times as needed from hardware upgrades, dead hard drives, etc. I'm not posting my key online. Piracy is not an issue. Phone home, CD access problems, etc are eliminated. It is about the only type of DRM I even consider. Anything else breaks the software when the hardware glitches. Broken software is useless. Any broken software priced above useless isn't purchased.
The CD key is why after purchase of the Voyetra "Teach me Piano" tutorial, it was the end of buying any Voyetra software. I use an older tutor called Piano Discovery System even though it was made for Windows 95. It is simply not a hastle to run.
Voyetra was dropped, while PDS got the expansion pack. DRM by CD check cost Voyetra several sales.
Due to the DRM in new versions of Windows with all the Anti-Piracy difficulties, I have since moved onto Linux. Stuff installs, and works the way it is supposed to. Rebuilds, upgrades and re-installs don't break everyting requiring tech support to "Get Genuine".
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Interesting)
The radio in my car requires entering a code every time the battery is disconnected, as the legitimate owner of the car i have forgotten the code and gone to considerable expense to get it recoded...
The guy who recoded it didn't take very long, neither i suspect would a thief. So only the legitimate user gets inconvenienced, anyone who steals the radio will have a lot less problem with the "anti theft" mechanism than i have.
On the other hand, my radio is obsolete (1995), a nonstandard size, and riveted and bolted into the car so it's not likely to get stolen anyway.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The radio in my car requires entering a code every time the battery is disconnected, as the legitimate owner of the car i have forgotten the code and gone to considerable expense to get it recoded... The guy who recoded it didn't take very long, neither i suspect would a thief.
Oh, it wouldn't take a thief long at all. Most people keep their car's manual in the glove box, which tends to have the radio's code stamped somewhere therein. If you are snatching a radio, might as well grab the manual while you are at it.
Mind you, I agree on the value. I've not seen too many factory stereos worth snatching. There's always that guy in a crack haze who will be happy to get $5 for it, though.
That's the magic of DRM. (Score:5, Insightful)
DRM is not about getting people who were not paying for something to pay for it.
It's about getting people who were paying for something to pay for it twice.
For example, I downloaded a couple ring tones for my phone. Phone died. I replaced the phone with EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL, but even though I was able to back up and restore all my contacts and other information, the ring tones did not transfer because there's some weird DRM on them.
So now if I want my ringtones back, I have to buy them AGAIN, and apparently every time I replace my phone. How stupid is that?
Re:That's the magic of DRM. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's the magic of DRM. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's the magic of DRM. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:That's the magic of DRM. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's pretty clear that EA has no respect for their customers. It's a shame, because I'd really like to try Mass Effect, but between the draconian DRM, the greedy sales policy, and the refusal to release a demo (which could be excused if the game wasn't $50) it's pretty difficult to justify buying it.
Please, Bioware, find another publisher.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Interesting)
Part of the problem is that the developers don't usually install any DRM, it's usually done by the distributors.
So even if the developers thoroughly test a product, but the public always beta tests the DRM.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
The actual problem with DRM is that, unlike with ordinary goods where I have an additional value when I buy something rather than hoping it "falls off a truck". I get warrenty, I get a manual, I get support, I may get cheap(er) addons. It's exactly reverse with DRMed goods. You get more value out of "stealing" it.
Yes, convenience is a value in a good. Actually, convenience has become a good in and of itself. Valet parking is nothing but a convenience, still people pay for it. The reason why Windows is still more in use than Linux with private users is the convenience of its use and the software for it. Convenience is a big selling point. And just this important key point is actually better when I copy&crack software rather than buying it?
That's why DRM will fail with the masses. Not because of the privacy invasion or the "phoning home". People don't care about that. But they do care about the loss of convenience.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Interesting)
SecuROM, on the other hand...
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
DRM doesn't have to be evil. But of course it can be.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
That's how DRM can work. When you use the M in the acronym as "management" and not as the "mangle" it's been used usually.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to the purchaser, unless you want to say "without DRM, the content would not have been made available at all". Any digital file without DRM is inherently more flexible and useful than after it's applied, and to say that it's beneficial to the purchaser is twisting words around - DRM exists solely to benefit the content provider at the expense of the purchaser.
As regards the "sheeple" comment - just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't automatically make them incapable of critical thought. I read your opinion, I understand it, but I still disagree with it from the perspective of the buying public - that doesn't make me or anyone else deserving of that kind of ad hom.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe someone who would have been motivated by the complete absence of content would have given away *their* version of the content, but the presence of locked down content was enough to discourage them from the effort.
Or maybe someone who would have done an incredible job of incrementally updating the content with massive amounts of newer and more current information just gave up because the DRM prevented him from editing and building on the original content.
Or maybe enough people would have pooled their money to hire someone else to produce similar content and make it available for free, but the price difference per person wasn't worth the effort.
We know the, "without DRM, the content would not have been made available at all" argument all too well, that's why NormalVisual pre-emptively mentioned it, no need to elaborate. For each time it gets used, there are at least 4x more reasons to discount it. If anything, it is the sheeple argument because it assumes that there is only one way to skin a cat, is stuck in the box, etc.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd respectfully disagree with that and point that it is your view that is supporting only one way, that without DRM, and mine leaves open the potential for both types of content.
The problem with that argument is that it could be applied to ANY arbitrary restriction. The CueCat folks could have made a lot of money if there had been a law that prevented people from using cuecats for anything else. Automakers could make a profitable business selling ultra-luxury (and ultra-expensive) cars for cheap if there was a law that required car owners to temporarily lease their cars, payment going to automakers, to other people when otherwise not in use. Cities could save tax revenue if th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A couple of years ago I bought Worldwide Soccer Manager from them and the game was unstable as all hell, I couldn't install etc... Had tons of issues. All of which were fixed with a no-cd crack. The game was, in it's shipping state, damn near unusable.
Then I bought a couple of games recently through the servic
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at all those poor saps who bought music from Microsoft's service that's shut (or shutting) down. They won't be able to relicense what they've paid for.
The end user is the one who suffers. I spent several weeks unable to play Neverwinter Nights due to the copy protection not liking my CD drive. Wound up having to get a crack just to play what I paid for.
Another great example is Starforce. I have GT Legends here. Came free with GTR2 (which didn't use Starforce). I daren't install it given my last system suffered damage from Starforce. So I've got this great game I really want to play, but daren't risk installing it. Starforce is so woven into the program that it can't be removed.
All this protection does is stop casual copying. Stops me running a copy off for you or whatever. Yet nobody I know who pirates ever did that anyway. They've download whatever they wanted. First it was BBS's. Then FTP's. Now torrents etc... Even when I was pirating stuff years and years ago it was NEVER directly copying the original from a friend.
Finally, there is the ultimate rip off. You buy a game and the copy protection won't play nice for you and you can't load the game, so you take it back to the store... But they won't give you your money back because it's open and you may have copied it...
And they keep making the protection worse and worse... This 3 activation thing... Is that just on the disk based? Or download version as well? Really hope this potentially amazing game isn't going to be ruined by its copy protection.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
That said, the sort of DRM that Direct2Drive and other similar services use is fairly unobtrusive when compared to SecuROM and its ilk.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a question about steam... how does it work if you have two computers (or more)? I mean if I buy Bejeweled, on my steam account, can my wife play it while I'm playing Civ?
I don't really object to being prevented from playing a given purchased game on two different computers at the same time... but being prevented letting my wife or kids play play ANY OTHER steam game is unacceptable... if that's how it works.
Currently I have 1 steam title (Portal) and I'm happy enough with the service but I'm hesitant to buy any more due to this fact.
Its also apparently impossible to give other people your games when you are finished with them. I've lent purchased games to my brothers on many occasions, and I've got games I've borrowed from them.
I realized this when I wanted to lend Portal to one of my brothers, and realized I couldn't because it was tied to my steam account... which isn't the end of the world, he's my brother and I trust him, and I could give him the userid/password for my steam account (in violation of the steam agreement of course)...
but that means, that while my brother is playing portal, I wouldn't be abe to play any of my steam games? Again I could live with not being able to play it while he was, but I wouldn't be able to play ANYTHING?
And worse... apparently they use some sort of ip tracking so if a steam account is accessed from widely different locations they'll ban the account -- so now if I 'lend' my brother my copy of portal, I'm locked out while he's using it and risk getting banned if we try to access the account at the same time. (as both my brothers live in different cities?)
Is this correct? Or have I misunderstood how steam works?
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Informative)
Only one PC can be logged in to a Steam account at a time.
Most singleplayer games under Steam can be played in offline mode, which somewhat resolves this.
The safest way around the problem is probably creating one Steam account per game, but that also removes a lot of the convenience in Steam - and convenience is our reason for accepting their Digital Restrictions Management.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You should be able to play any single player offline or lan games ok, but going into online games will likely fail on steam auth; so you could play tf2 while your brother plays portal, but you won't both be able to play tf2 and hl2 deathmatch online at the same time, for exampl
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You will. Steam runs in offline mode now, no reason it won't in the future. Just back up the games.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Insightful)
Need I also note that there already exist VMs capable of emulating present operating systems, and that there's going to be plenty of financial incentive for those to continue to exist in the future?
No, I'm not concerned at all about being able to play my games in 20 years... except for the DRM.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
DRM isn't REALLY about software piracy. I haven't known one person that has said "Hey! It is difficult to pirate this. I may as well just go buy it!". It is about squeezing the most money out of you that they possibly can for the least amount of product.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well, now you do. Over the years, there have been a number of applications that fell into this category for me, from Windows to MorphVox, Trillian (wanted some of the addons) to (once upon a time) C&Cheat.
The problem with DRM is that (if done poorly), the pirate copy is easier to get and more functional than the legitimate copy. This encourages users (th
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I disagree (Score:5, Insightful)
Due... to... piracy? That is a pretty bold claim. Maybe because they are spewing out the same old tired garbage, that no one sees value in it anymore. The percieved value of everything changes. Even the value of your cash. When people don't want your crap, you will sell less. If people can't do something more useful in your new version, you will sell less.
And do you think it is coincidence that even though we are talking about software, this is the exact same issue with the other big industry, music. People are tired of paying for the 13th Pearl Jam album that all sounds like filler from their first, so they sell less. They are tired of paying for a whole album just for a song or two, so they are selling less. Yet they are SURE that their revenues are slipping.... due... to... piracy.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, as pointed out above, not only by me, if DRM accomplished anything, it's that people who got dicked over by DRMcrippled software they bought start looking for a way around DRM, find out about cracks and then you lost a customer. And unfortunately, not only the companies using DRM to harrass their customers lose them, everyone does. Someone who has found cracked soft doesn't discriminate anymore between "good" companies that employ either no DRM or less invasive DRM, and "bad" companies who try to enforce something as ridiculous as the crap we're discussing here.
He just sees free soft and starts grabbing.
If DRM accomplishes anything, it drives more people towards cracked software. You can't get those that download&crack on principle to buy your stuff. For many, it's a sport to avoid buying software, and you won't get them to buy yours. DRM now drives the rest away from buying as well by pretty much sending them towards cracks to regain the convenience and ease of use they enjoy about software they bought.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
I pirated a lot when I was younger and without disposable income. This lost the game companies little to nothing since there was no money to be had from me either way. I now have buckets of disposable income, but do not buy games with this sort of DRM. If they don't want my money, they don't get it. There are plenty of games without DRM for me to give my money for.
The fact games with no DRM whatsoever still turn a good profit (Stardock's titles are a prime example), proves beyond any doubt that tossing away DRM does not equal zero return on investment.
Chicken or egg? Not an interesting question, in my opinion. There has been piracy since the birth of the games industry. This hasn't prevented them from becoming so large they are now on par with the movie industry.
DRM is now an industry in itself. If not a single person on the planet pirated, the DRM industry would still somehow manage to sell their crippleware to game companies. It's not like they don't already produce fictional losses to rival that of the **AA.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Informative)
And its not piracy either. (Unless you take a ship at sea.)
What you evidently meant to say is that "There will always be those that choose to infringe copyrights."
If you are going to be pedantic about definitions then be pedantic about definitions
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So the stealing (behavior) clearly came first, the stealing terminology is pretty new-fangled
I doubt that the pirates are the ones complaining about DRM - they are mostly unaffected. The people in this story are legit cus
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not really true. The restrictions aren't put in there because people will. Instead, they're put in there because people might. Reality isn't a factor in deciding to put copy restrictions into a software, so altering reality won't change the outcome. You should look at the movie industry's out-cry about the sale of vcrs many moons ago, it'll give you some insight into where I'm coming from.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And (as explained many times in this thread) if they don't do what they're supposed to, DRM doesn't help either, but it's likely to hurt.
Try to imagine the cases (confirmed customers, potential customers, pirates, non-users) where DRM has any effect better than not using DRM. You get the empty set. The best case scenario is that it makes no d
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Insightful)
It's also the people who are guilty of stealing who are the loudest to laud DRM's pratfalls.
What makes you think this? Except for those very few who actually crack the software, pirates don't give a rat's ass about DRM because it doesn't affect them. They have no idea how onerous Mass Effect's DRM is.
I assume that the people who scream the loudest are the paying customers who can't play the game they purchased because of some boneheaded DRM scheme that does nothing to discourage piracy.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's worth pointing out that the two methods (purchasing and cracking) aren't mutually exclusive. When a company adopts draconian (or just plain stupid) licensing tactics, you can still purchase the software (for legal, moral, etc reasons) and then proceed to download a crack for your copy or just a cracked one via "the usual places". It's not ideal and not perfect, but at least you can run the software you paid for.
At my last job we had some software that required a hardware dongle attached to a license server. The problem was that the licensing software used some hacked-up bastardized version of NetBIOS which meant that only clients on the same subnet as the server could connect and authorize themselves. After weeks of haggling with the company and them refusing to fix their crappy licensing software ("It works for everyone else!") we just found a license crack online and applied it to all the client workstations.
Were we legal enough to survive an audit? I have no idea, but we we were fully licensed for all the clients connected and I think that's what mattered.
Re:Thats what they get (Score:4, Informative)
One flaw, you can't bypass copyright protection without violating EULA (and DMCA in the US)
Regardless of how fuzzy and warm you feel, software makers (microsoft being a prime example) mention in their EULAs that if you bypass the protection, your right to use the software is revoked (no money returns) and if you keep using it, you are no different from a person who didn't pay for it in the first place (maybe ethically or morally you are) but not according to the law.
Vista Obligatory (Score:3, Funny)
If you own Windows Vista, then you'll have about 3 days to use your license
Well, (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well, (Score:5, Insightful)
And it'll still be cracked
Since Spore is a single-player game
and mass effect too...
Re:Well, (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a difference between copy protection that is a minor nuisance (i.e. having to have the disk in the drive to use the software) and a major nuisance (i.e. disabling the software altogether after a while). The first will be swallowed grungedly. The latter will cause people to find a way to get around it to use the software they legally bought again.
If this has any effect, it will make more people search for ways to disable copy protection. It will show people who didn't even think about copying how to do it, how to acquire "cracks" and how to download cracked software.
And once the initial "work" is done to get a hand on such software, the incentive to keep doing it is immense. It does take some time initially to dig up sources for cracked software, but once you have the source, getting more software without buying for it is fairly trivial.
So the net effect of crippling DRM methods like this is to drive more people towards cracked soft. Because once you know where to get it, it's easy to get more.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Umm... could anyone explain? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is that the message I should get out of this? Buy and cry, but copy and enjoy?
Don't buy DRM'd games! (Score:5, Informative)
Spore... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Spore... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a pity, but a lot of people either are ignorant about the DRM, or don't care. Obviously they never bought music from an online store that since shut down.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As I understand it, it goes like this:
CEO: Why are our sales low, Level 2 Exec? Is it piracy?
Level 2 Exec: Why are our sales low, Level 3 Exec? Is it piracy?
Level 3 Exec: Why are our sales low, mid-level manager who actually knows what's going on?
Mid-level manager: Well, our DRM is so restrictive,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If a game has DRM I cannot accept, I am not going to buy it OR pirate it.
Reason 1: By ignoring the game, I do not count in any piracy statistics which can be used as an excuse for stronger Digital Restrictions Management in their next game.
Reason 2: I believe that I will hurt the game company mor
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Spore... (Score:5, Funny)
Screw Piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
I do this with all my games, mainly because I don't want to have to have the disk in the drive if there's no legitimate need for it.
Re:Screw Piracy (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want updates and any add-ons they come out with, though, you need to purchase a key(one-time purchase only, mind) in order to register the game.
I love it: I downloaded two of their games and tried them for 3 days. One, I got rid of; the other, SoaSE, I liked so much that I went and bought a legitimate key to register with online.
Granted it has its flaws: it would be very easy for someone to pirate a game with this kind of "protection". Even the key itself would be easy to spread around, I bet.
But if you actually like the game, don't you want to see improvements and add-ons come out for it? And/or more games like it? Most people are aware that these things cost money, and without that money, no more will be made like it. So if customers like what they see and want more, they come back and pay for more.
Stardock games have product activation, too (Score:4, Informative)
The Stardock product activation is much nicer than BioShock or ME; instead of a hard install limit, the install limit is rate based. In other words, you're only allowed [unspecified number] of installs per [unspecified time period]. There's also none of the "can't be running any debugging tools" nonsense that SecuROM comes with.
The "unspecified"s in there make me a bit uncomfortable, but it's a bit better than SecuROM.
I'll just keep on waiting. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, if Bioware never 'needed' DRM (outside of a license key) for earlier games such as the Baldur's Gate Series, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, etc, and made millions upon millions of dollars of revenue, why do they suddenly need such restrictive DRM? I guess it's to keep people like me from buying the game who probably otherwise would.
Publishers, pay attention: DRM doesn't generate more revenue, it costs you revenue. It's costly to develop and deploy, and to some extent, reduces your sales. I doubt a single person who would have pirated a non-DRM'ed version will actually pay because of the DRM, but it definitely goes the other way - some percentage, even if small, of potential customers who would have payed will be turned off by the DRM and will simply not purchase the game.
Also, DRM like this violates the Doctrine of First Sale [wikipedia.org] - you know, that little concept that if you buy a book, recording, or copy of a computer program, you can let your friends read it, listen to it, libraries can lend it out, etc. Any DRM which prevents lawful re-use of a legally purchased copy should itself be illegal, but of course our corrupt congress which only cares about pandering to rich lobbyists don't care about flushing a century of copyright law down the toilet.
Re:I'll just keep on waiting. . . (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, DRM like this violates the Doctrine of First Sale [wikipedia.org] - you know, that little concept that if you buy a book, recording, or copy of a computer program, you can let your friends read it, listen to it, libraries can lend it out, etc. Any DRM which prevents lawful re-use of a legally purchased copy should itself be illegal, but of course our corrupt congress which only cares about pandering to rich lobbyists don't care about flushing a century of copyright law down the toilet.
The law and precedent is clearly present now, but EA will never come around on this voluntarily. If someone were to take them to court over their restrictive licensing/authorization practices, it would take a while, but that would put a stop to it. As far as I know, companies that sell software that is clearly sold, not rented, must follow the first sale doctrine; a shrinkwrap "license" that specifies otherwise is simply illegal.
But no one has really challenged this yet, and especially not in the case of g
Follow the Wiki link. . . (Score:3, Informative)
If you follow that Wikipedia link in my earlier post, and read the section on case law, specifically the last paragraph about Vernor vs Autodesk, you'll see that at least one Federal Judge has made a ruling that calls "Bullshit" on that argument. That was a very recent ruling, though, so there is still the possibility that could be appealed, I think, but it's at least encouraging that the co
Lesson I take away is... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure where they got the idea that treating their legitimate customers to a worse experience than the ones who steal their product was all that smart, but I'm pretty sure it was from the same think tank that told the RIAA that suing their customers would be good for business.
Re:Lesson I take away is... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's the difference between you and me. I'm all for punishing dimwits who treat their customers as their enemies.
My solution is to simply avoid buying and using the product. I'm sure others will only omit the first part. But no game is worth stepping into illegality.
3 activations?? (Score:3, Interesting)
For God's Sake Someone Sue Someone Already (Score:4, Insightful)
When you guy a game, you have bought it. The courts now *clearly* recognize this. (To wit the recent case involving auctions of Autodesk software on eBay in alleged violation of Autodesk licensing.) You definitively have the right to sell it. It seems that along with that right must come the right to use it yourself .
I wonder why Will Wright subjects us to this shit, or at the least, why he tolerates it. Why hasn't he gone the Sid Meier way and left his lame publisher? If EA wants guaranteed income, why not charge a reasonable subscription rate for online gameplay and content?
Meanwhile I don't see any way that EA will be made to stop this short of a boycott (not likely with Spore and Mass Effect) or legal intervention. EA already got the smackdown for its illegal employment practices; why not its illegal "licensing" practices?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Developers without fail will publicly blame the publishers, neatly "forgetting" to mention that they, the developers, agree to the terms in the contract when they sign it, thereby validating it. If they really didn't want this DRM crap then they wouldn't leave control of it to the publishers, but they do, time and time again. Then they try to shift the blame.
Us gamers need to realize this and not accept the weak excuses of developers who support these braindead DRM schemes.
I don't know about t
I just bought this game Sunday night... (Score:5, Informative)
I think it took 4 hours to decompress 9GB off of the DVD. I'm not sure, I ended up falling asleep before it completed.
So, Monday night, I came home from work to play it. What a pain in the ass.
a. needs new drivers, but
b. looks as good as BF 2142 (which worked on my older drivers and ran faster)
c. we're talkin' "high seas" choppy (12-16 fps) even on 800x600 with linear aliasing and no music.
d. OTOH BF2142 can run in 1600:900 widescreen at 60 fps.
Did I mention that it failed to load after (I kid you not) 10 minutes on the splash screen? Apparently, the SecuROM DRM blacklists SysInternal's Process Explorer. Yeah, major hacking tool. Whatever.
Ok, so, I upgraded drivers, turned off PE and rebooted (!), and fired it up again. Like I mentioned, choppy sound fx and graphics and crazy load times (we're talking no UI response for upwards of 10 minutes).
Eventually, I did get to "play" for about an hour or so before an uninterruptable cutsceen black-screened-of-death my computer. Why oh why aren't they using industry-standard works-forever Bink video? Or if they are, they've seriously misimplemented it.
It should go without saying that this game appears to have undergone the most lazy subcontracted porting job from the xbox to the PC.
Against my better judgement, I'm putting it on the shelf until they release a patch rather than returning it. (Mainly because I don't think Target accepts software returns...)
Bottom line: I got what I deserved for buying this game without doing any research beforehand. (Surely, this is 2008, and Big-Name games aren't released in a broken state, right? wrong.)
Just like my DVR (Score:4, Interesting)
After the third consecutive week of being screwed out of watching South Park live (and paying over $150/month just for the television services) I returned the damn thing, and I now use Torrent to get ALL my TV content. When I find a decent ISP I'll be canceling the Comcast Internet too.
I was more than happy to pay for the service. But when their copy protection continuously fucked me over (despite other markets getting firmware updates to fix this known problem more than a year prior) I decided to stop rewarding bad behavior.
Re Spore, Why Not Complain Directly to Will Wright (Score:3, Interesting)
Behold! (Score:5, Insightful)
And it came to pass that the users gathered together and announced their lamentations unto the manufacturer, but the manufacturer heard their lamentations not declaring "For ours is to profit and yours is to consume, for the criminal he doth consume, but from that that the criminal consumes he also copies, and allow others to consume from the results of my minions labor. How doeth it profit us for a criminal to copy, and how doeth I as the provider of my minions labor know that you, and those gathered with you are not a criminals? Nay, not only is it safer for me to lock in the results of my minions by allowing not but three activations, it profits me even more if those activations are squander on unclean install and hardware not fit for supporting our products."
Then the users hearing this from the manufacturer brought their lamentations unto Slashdot, for Slashdot has a voice which carriers farther than just the voices of the users alone, but the manufactures still heard their lamentations not.
In the months that followed there was much casting of stones, but the fortress of the manufacturer had high walls and the stones cleared them not. The users then declared "We will trap them within their stone walls, and we will purchase their products not, and in time, when they hunger, they will come forth from their walls and allow us unlimited activations, for they will have empty wallets."
In this plan there was much wisdom, but the bulk of the users had not the courage to uphold this plan, for they were already committed and could survive without their games not. Among the users was a multitude for which the plan fell upon deaf ears, and money continued to flow to the manufacturer as water flows down a river.
And it came to pass that a band of users gathered together and gave their lamentations unto the pharacies, and they stated unto the pharacies that for the loss of their wages they were entitled a class action.
The spies of the manufacturer were many, and the spy among the pharacies reported back to the manufacturer of the news of class action. It was then that the manufacturer relented, not of wisdom, or of kindness, but of cowardice, for the manufacturer loves his purse and the money which it contains and wanted to part with that the he has already obtained not, prefer instead to risk the reduction of that which comes in by way of bandit interception.
The users upon hearing this declared that it was good, and their activations were good until the end of days.
It's EA... (Score:5, Interesting)
Note to John Riccitiello and the meatheads at EA: Take a page from Brad Wardell and the folks at Stardock Entertainment - DRM doesn't work - his words were....
"Blaming piracy is easy. But it hides other underlying causes. When Sins (of the Solar Empire) popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue."
I love SotSE and it's about as hassle-free of a game as it gets. WHY does nobody else other then Wardell and his group get this?
Does fear offset convenience? (Score:4, Insightful)
PC Gaming is dying (Score:3, Insightful)
Foot in the door (Score:5, Informative)
On the whole, it's a pretty disgusting press technique EA's gotten away with here.
EA: Mass Effect and Spore will have invasive DRM that re-checks with a central server every 10 days!
Bad press happens
EA: We learned our lesson. Mass Effect and Spore won't use that invasive system we were thinking of using. We decided we had to listen to our customers, so we decided we'd use this less invasive method (which is still invasive, and is the same system used on Bioshock)
Good press happens, despite the fact that EA has just said it would use the same protection system as Bioshock, which got bad press for... having an invasive protection system that locked legitimate consumers out of their own games.
This is called the foot in the door technique [wikipedia.org], and at least up to this article, EA pulled it off masterfully.
Mass Effect don't bug me (Score:5, Interesting)
I eventually found a home-made (vs warez-released) crack, by some guy name Gniarf on some random forum, that works 100%. I don't know who Gniarf is or how he pulled it off, but if a random dude on a forum is able to crack the DRM in Mass Effect, it seems to me like EA wasted a shitload of money on that DRM for absolutely nothing.
What did EA gain from the DRM ? A bunch of frustrated customers who got clobbered by the 10-day activation, as many had predicted. Would it have sold less copies without DRM ? Doubtful, seeing how quickly the fix was produced. It's not even a race anymore, the cracks come out so fast, I wonder why the game houses even pretend to put up a fight. Dead horse much ?
You can get more activations (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As far as I know, no-one has actually been helped yet with the activation problems by EA tech support.
It may well be that this is another lie from bioware PR up there with 'uninstalling it will give you back an activation' and 'you can reinstall on the same pc without using a new activation'* and 'you won't need multiple activations for each user account' - a
Another burned EA customer reaction (Score:3, Insightful)
I bought Mass Effect for the PC. Fool that I am.
I won't make the mistake again. I too got caught out by having that hacker tool from bleeding Microsoft, Process Explorer running. After a half hour wasted I figured it out and got the game going.
Games that require the original CD to play annoy the crap out of me. I have big hard drives, I can store a damn image on one for years and install and play the game when I feel like, even if I do misplace the CD. But not with these DRM pieces of crap.
Games that will only install 'x' number of times annoy me. What if I dual boot with Vista and with XP? Oh, there's two of my three installs gone right there. And if I swap out hardware to see what runs better? Too bad so sad.
Games that need online activation annoy me. If I want to haul that game out for a laugh five years from now will those activation servers still be online? Pfft, right.
So EA, enjoy the money for Mass Effect, I'm hoisting the Jolly Roger from now on with your products, and a cheery FU from me.
The kicker is that after a couple of hours of play my impression is the game isn't much fun anyway. I find it more annoying to play than fun and I hate a third person view I can't change to a first person view. Maybe some folks like that but I don't. So the lesson is to try the pirate version before even thinking of buying the game and if you really really feel the maker deserves money after that, buy the game and stick it on a shelf and keep playing the hassle-free pirate version.
Re:DRM is pointless (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I had brought a copy of Supreme Commander:FA and went to bit torrent for a copy of it since it would NEVER install all the way. Plays like a champ with the copy I got offa Pirate Bay, no insert CD or nothing.
BTW - I do know the latest patch removes the 'copy protection' on it.
Re:DRM is pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:DRM is pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
- Buy software.
- Install software.
- Get frustrated.
- Crack software.
you'll soon start to cut out steps 2 and 3, and then just cut out step 1.Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I bought FS2004. I run the cracked version of it because I don't want to have to find the disk every time I play it.
I am honest because I am honest.
In this case I doubt I will buy Spore. The DRM is just too big of a pain do deal with.
DRM seems to be making honest people into criminals.
Seems way to like prohibition to me.
Re:A solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
What you are doing, in effect, is accepting the fact you're renting a game, but still paying full price for it.
I for one won't accept that. Either slice the prices down to rental levels, or let me actually own the game I buy. They're doing a great job not getting my money. Not such a great job keeping me from enjoying the games. If they ever change their minds and want my money after all, they know what to do.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And before you say 'no company would do that', that's precisely what they did with the EA Store. I bought Battlefield 2142 from EA Link, expecting to be able to download it anytime I want should I ever want to play it again. A few months later, they introduced the new EA Store, which limited your downloading to six months after the purchase date. Of cours
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ya know, despite what ads tell you, there is still this option...
Hello console, Goodbye PC. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:EA, Challenge Everything! Including common sens (Score:3, Insightful)
Well done.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The problem is not even that this task is literally impossible, although it may in fact be. The problem is that the man-hours and cost per shipped unit involved in a scheme tha
Re: (Score:3, Informative)