Spore DRM Protest Makes EA Ease Red Alert 3 Restrictions 486
Crazy Taco writes "The heavy Amazon.com protest of Spore's DRM appears to have caught the attention of executives at EA. IGN reports that DRM for the upcoming C&C: Red Alert 3 will be scaled back. Unlike previous Command and Conquer games, the CD will not be required in the drive to play. The online authentication will be done just once (rather than periodic phone calls home), and up to five installations will be allowed, as opposed to three for Spore. While I still think five installations is too few (I've probably re-installed Command and Conquer: Generals 20 times over the years for various reasons), EA says they will have staff standing by to grant more installations as necessary on a case by case basis. So, while this still isn't optimal, at least we are getting a compromise. Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future."
How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
What they should do is be honest and describe the limitations in the box.
-Warning: Zero resale value.
-This game can only be installed 5 times.
-This game will refuse to run when other applications are running or installed.
-Some applications will be installed to verify playing rights. These applications will be running even when the game is not.
Would that hurt sales? If they think they are offering a reasonable 'compromise' then they should just do it, and no one will have a reason to complain.
If they think it would be suicidal to do it, then they know they are still fucking their customers. So expect no sympathy.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fundamentally, there is an important point with DRM on works of culture that's not applicable when applied to the things DRM is usually applied to. At work, for example, the provider of our middleware application has implemented license checks that could cause the same kind of issue. But a middleware app won't work cause it won't activate anymore? It's probably out of support anyway, time to move to a new version.
Businesses don't usually need a particular version -- and if they do, and it's a big enough showstopper, the vendor comes out and does a hot fix so new-version does what old-version did better. (Yes you can, I've seen it. You just have to need it badly enough.)
Games are different. Halo 2 is not the same as Halo. Twilight Princess is a very different game from Zelda 64. The "upgraded" original Star Wars trilogy cuts are widely seen as inferior to the original versions. Then there are games like Planescape: Torment, which is essentially unreleaseable (Interplay died, D&D license expired, uses 2nd edition, content wouldn't pass Hasbro's restrictions). So while enforcing obsolesence on middleware *might* be OK, it's definitely not OK to make video games that are essentially guaranteed not to work in 10 years.
So nice try, EA. Good, but not good enough. Games have an aesthetic quality; a given game is totally unique and irreplaceable -- that's why we like them.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I don't see how they consider it "easing restrictions" by going from 3 installs to 5. That's the only change here. That you can play without the CD? So what? I can play a LOT of PC games without the CD (and even more if you count digital downloads). And that isn't easing anything anyway. Spore can be played without the CD and Red Alert had always been expected to be playable without a CD. Further, this "five installs" was in place for Red Alert BEFORE the whole Spore DRM issue. This is a non article, really
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
So nice try, EA. Good, but not good enough. Games have an aesthetic quality; a given game is totally unique and irreplaceable -- that's why we like them.
How is this even considered a nice try? How is this considered good? It is not good. Its fucking pathetic.
Not that I endorse it, but piracy exists for a reason. EA is just adding fuel to the fire, by treating their customers like they are crooks. As if the people that pay money, for this crap, can not be trusted.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Can we have a DRM bill of rights?
1. DRM will remain invisible to the end user unless they are attempting to pirate the game.
2. The DRM system will be obvious, uninstallable through normal means, and will not make an effort to hide itself.
3. DRM will *never* run when the game is not running. (Performance is bad enough without 40 versions of a poorly-written software running around.)
4. DRM will never fail to authenticate due to the existence of tools with legitimate uses, although the DRM may require said to
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Informative)
have you read this?
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169899 [1up.com]
FTA: Even on the same PC, extra copies needed for each family member who wants a new profile.
As if there was any need to further incite angry gamers with Spore's DRM issues, The Consumerist yesterday ran a story on how -- in addition to the many other restrictions the game's DRM presents gamers with -- a copy of Spore provides you with only a single game account. In other words, if you've got multiple people in the same house who want to play Spore and have their own individual online personas, you'll have to buy an additional copy of Spore for each person.
Forget what you may have read on the manual -- particularly that part on page 53 which reads, "You may have multiple Spore accounts for each installation of the game." An EA spokesperson going by the name "EA_Violet" has clarified questions regarding the matter on the official Spore forums, providing us this disappointing revelation:
"That section in the manual was a misprint and will be corrected in future printings of the manual. There is one Spore registration/account per game/serial code so you are correct in that you cannot make multiple accounts at this time. I have sent your guys' feedback to the game team though since I can understand the desire to share a game on a system that you entire family uses."
For a "misprint" the language seems pretty clear, and it is common practice for games to allow different user profiles so you can login and play with your own data/saves(naturally, with only one instance of the game running at any given time). One can't help but wonder whether this feature was removed so late in the process that the manual had already gone to print. Regardless, if this policy sticks after the game team reviews the feedback noted in the post it will only fan the fires of gamers frustrated with EA's handling of Spore. While we stand staunchly against piracy, requiring each member of a household to buy their own individual copy of the game seems like one of those policies that could backfire, driving people who otherwise wouldn't dream of it to potentially consider it as an alternative. But maybe this is simply an example of not having thought things through.
Should it hold true, this revelation also calls the game's strict installation restrictions into question. If each game serial code only authorizes a single account registration that should render how many times you install the game fairly moot.
We've contacted EA for a comment on the story but have yet to receive a response.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:4, Interesting)
What they should do is be honest and describe the limitations in the box.
No, what they should do is stop fucking over their customers.
Who's up for organizing a similar protest around Red Alert 3? I would like to think that we won't accept the "just throw 'em a bone" strategy.
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Exactly.
They customers wrote shit reviews for spore, and this is no fucking different. 3 vs 5 is not the problem. Even if it was a more reasonable 10 times, its still telling us the consumer that we are not trusted. And they want to shaft us out of value. Are we buying a product or a temporary license?
The kind of shit these companies try to get away with just wouldn't fly in any other market. If you buy a Car from GM you can only fill the tank at BP or you have the engine wont start. Buy a vacuum cleaner, a
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:4, Informative)
No, Spore can only be installed three times. Red Alert 3 can only be installed five times.
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Please get your facts right, or at least fill things out more. You get 3 installs OUT OF THE BOX. If you need more, you have to contact EA. This is no different than a lot of other online licensing mechanisms. (Trymedia for example.)
I bought Spore, downloaded the crack and used that. Game works fine, online works fine. No authentication needed so I've used zero activations. Don't give a flying shit about anything else EA has in the pipeline so they can sell the games with zero authentications for all I care
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Interesting)
You have to call to get more activations .au that's 2.95 a minute to wait on hold while some stupid frakking helldesk tool flips a coin to decide if you get to use your game or not
and in
plus costing 100 USDish :(
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RA3, will be able to be installed five times.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
And EA still has no obligation to fulfill more than 3/5 installs. 10 years from now when I want to play Spore will those staff still be standing by to help me out or will they instead suggest to buy Spore 3 and go screw myself?
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I'm recommending to everyone I know that they should buy it and pirate it at the same time. It inflates the piracy numbers making EA slightly more scared, you still show your support for certain aspects of the project (the core game) - and you're protecting your financial investment by future proofing it against EA's decisions.
That and there is a good chance the retail game won't work in a decent percentage of the popul
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Funny)
It would be interesting to get EA's reaction to having a ton of people buy the game and never activate it (due to using the crack).
If you go this route, make sure you register it so that EA knows you bought it!
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather pirate it and then send $50 anonymously to Will Wright, with a note explaining why I did that instead of buying the game. Or pirate it and donate $50 to the EFF in EA's name. Or not play it at all.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The worst part is spore isn't revolutionary at all. In fact, it's a huge dissapointment to me. NOTE: I've only played 3 of 5 levels/parts of the game.
It isn't a simulation like say, Sim City was. It's not even really like The Sims. It's been 3 minigames so far:
1) PackMan
2) CRPG style grind
3) Weak RTS similar to a stripped down WarCraft 1.
I can't imagine what the later 2 stages really are, but I'm mostly bored. The worst part is I've spent maybe 6 hrs to be almost done with Stage 3 (and what's holding me bac
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hello, Interplay? Yeah, I need to re-authorize Descent and Conquest of the New World, whats that, There are like, ten people working at your company and you are mostly bankrupt? Getting evicted from your offices? That sucks" (side note, interplay has no way to contact them at all on their years old single image webpage, though they have apparently sold some assets recently)
Hello, Vivendi Universal, yeah I need to authorize some of my games, Well it was a Sierra game, you know, before you bought Sierra, oh you know that, good. well actually Sierra bought this company a decade before that, so can you authorize it? Oh they took those servers down years ago along with the multiplay lobby? Right...
Hello, Activision, I know this might be a long-shot, But I was trying to re-install some of my Infocom games and, well you shut them down in 89... Yeah, you own their games, really, never heard of it? Zork? Nothing? Well I'm wondering if you can activate it for me, why are you laughing? What's so funny?...
I love playing games old and new, and I certainly expect that just as I can pop in super mario bros or sonic into my old systems, that I can also reinstall old PC games forever and ever, (on the OS they were designed for) The games industry is a volatile place, the rock solid big player of one decade is the next decades dinosaur, becoming a forgotten footnote in a companies IP portfolio.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, I bought a game called the Omega Syndrome. Independent developer. I went to play it again and he had closed up shop. I had my key but needed the files (it was shareware, after you bought it you activated it and applied a couple more exe packages to install the rest of the content). I managed to track his name to a developer forum and find an email address for him and he got back to me with the files.
I hate to say it but regardless of which companies that go out of business The Pirate Bay and Gamecopyworld will always be around. If there is some game you're still playing 10 years from now and the company has folded, the multiplayer scene is likely going to suck anyway so that aspect really isn't that much of a concern. It doesn't excuse them, I just don't think you'll ever genuinely be in a position where you can't play your games.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:4, Funny)
Yes. Because the typical gamer only owns one computer in their lifetime and never upgrades that computer.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, no. I could be *BUYING* a license (plus physical media) which are then mine to resell.
Re:How is this a compromise? (Score:5, Interesting)
It says in the spore EULA that you /can/ transfer the license 'one time' to a new party.
that new party should then be bound by the license in full, and also be able to transfer it to a third party 'one time'
We will not compromise (Score:5, Interesting)
No, securerom is a resident program on your computer, I should also not have to get permissions to install more than a few times. Spores limit of one account as well is ridiculous. I will not buy another game with securerom ever.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We will not compromise (Score:4, Interesting)
Then do things the right way, and flood their phones telling them they can't install their AIDS on your computer because they've hit their 0 install limit and need to beg YOU to get the game installed on your computer, or you're stealing it the proper way, cracking it, distributing it to all of your friends, and periodically calling them to let them know you're playing the game.
Actually, do that more. Everytime you load up Spore/C&C/MassEffect, call EA and tell them, "hi, I'm playing your game". Bonus points if you let them know you're running a cracked version.
Every time you play.
S'about time you give them twice as much crap.
Re:We will not compromise (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree, I think EA is blowing its own foot off. I spend a LOT of money on games. I spend a lot of money on computer games. I am in the process of building a new machine from scratch is basically a gaming computer spawned from hell. I like games.
I also never pirate. The last time I pirated something I was 16. Buying things is quick, easy, and without hassle. Pirating on the other hand is a pain in the ass, time consuming, and risky. My time is worth more than what it takes to pirate. I have a large disposable income because I don't spend my money on cars, HD TVs, or anything like that. I'll buy a game if I have any interest it and I won't feel bad if I decide I don't like it. I have never resold a game. I am the perfect guy to sell games too.
I won't be buying Spore, C&C3, or anything with this absurd DRM. I am not going to have a game install crippleware onto my computer, and then limit how many times I can install games. I have reinstalled Starcraft, Fallout, and Knight of the Old Republic more times than I can count. Hell, I will burn through three installs in under a year. I will easily kill 5 installs in a year when I make/buy a new computer.
So, EA can continue down this path, but I won't go with them. It isn't going to stop piracy (as Spore has shown). If anything, it will increase piracy as the pirated version is the non-crippled version. So it won't stop piracy, but it will stop someone like me who merrily blows a few hundred dollars a month on games from buying.
Re:We will not compromise (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying things is quick, easy, and without hassle. Pirating on the other hand is a pain in the ass, time consuming, and risky. My time is worth more than what it takes to pirate
I have the exact opposite leanings. To go buy a game I have to go out to some shitty games store (the ones around here are all shitty, your mileage may vary) and that takes time out of my day. At the very least I have to go online and buy it, and then it takes a few days to arrive. Pirated copy... takes minutes to find a torrent, then I can leave it downloading in the background and when I come back later it's done
Hell, it's not worth my time to not pirate stuff
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's great if you're fine with playing it in a few days, or maybe your torrent performance is always fantastic on all torrents. I grabbed the torrent of Spore, and after waiting for several hours while doing other stuff, it was still at 1% or so (I was averaging under 5kbps - yes, my settings are fine, other torrents can zip right along). I got fed up to the point where I just went out and bought the thing. Popped it in the drive, installed, done, playing before the torrent hit 5%, and played through m
Re:We will not compromise (Score:5, Insightful)
i dont know about you, but piracy these days is a piece of proverbial piss.
1) download iso .nfo file included with iso
2) mount iso, install game
3) enter cd key in
4) copy crack from CRACK dir in cd root dir
5) enjoy your game without DRM
do the above, and you will have pre-2000 gaming experience with regards to copy protection. its amazing that these companies still actually think their DRM actually stops pirates. as i recall, spore was released to the pirate community days before the actual release. if it can be cracked, it will be. why punish the actual customers?
Re:We will not compromise (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry that you haven't been fully informed about the release of the new Command and Conquer: Red Alert game.
While there is, indeed, a version with restrictive Digital Rights Management(DRM), there is also going to be another version completely free of DRM. I'll run you through a quick comparison of the features of both versions, so that you, the consumer, may make an informed decision regarding how to spend your money.
Version 1.
-Can only be installed 5 times.
-Installs spyware on your computer.
-Comes with box and manual.
-$49.95
Version 2.
-Can be installed any number of times.
-Does not install spyware on your computer.
-Will likely be released several days before Version 1.
-Available for download from the comfort of your own home.
-$0.00
Have a consumptive day.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonsense. You are gaining utility without compensating the creators, and that's not right."
Elaborate on why that is "not right".
If you cannot demonstrate your point, then that is simply your personal ethical opinion. I see no reason why your imposing moral visions should effect my actions when they harm no one, as I've already demonstrated.
I'm certainly not harming the creators in any way. I'm not stealing their bandwidth, packaging, or money any more than I would by simply ignoring the product.
The only th
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Why does anyone have to elaborate on "not right" when it comes to piracy. It is freaking obvious. But fine, if you are really that dense. Just simply do the "other shoes" thing. If you spent years of your life working on something, how would you feel if someone just took your work without compensating you for it? You would be upset...and if you are trying to say you would be cool with it, you are being int
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I find it morally wrong to pirate something and keeping it if I like it instead of buying it and showing my gratitude for hours of fun with that purchase
Totally agree. I have legal copies of the first four C&C games. I won't buy the next one because of the DRM. If I pirated it, I'd probably enjoy it, and then I might tell other people that I enjoyed it, and they might buy it, and so pirating it would indirectly lead to EA profiting from releasing a game with unacceptable DRM. Since I have no intention of EA profiting in any way from my actions, even indirectly, while they continue to pull this kind of stunt, I'll spend my entertainment money on othe
How to make them understand... the fun way! (Score:5, Funny)
Hehe you know what I'd do if I had the game?
Install it again and again, then call them to be able to reinstall it once a week (back up your saved games of course). Tell them it's because of windows and you had to reinstall it since some other unstable programs tend to screw the OS.
Lulz for everyone!
But they'd get the message ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Precisely what makes you think they'll not tell you to go take a hike ?
Precisely what makes you think that the rabid band of fanboys will cuss you out on forums when you report on this, because you obviously are a pirate ?
Re:How to make them understand... the fun way! (Score:5, Interesting)
At which point you return it, or (check your CC terms), dispute it if they decline to accept a return on a defective product, or after properly documenting everything, file a an action in small claims (this presumes you were not reinstalling it for spite, but instead, actually having problems).
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VoIP baby! No long distance charges.
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That depends on whether it's a matter of practicality or principle. If you're out for practicality and just want things to work as easily as possible for you, then yes, you can make the case that you're losing out when you take the long road. However, if you're speaking from principle and you want to get a change made, then some sacrifices are necessary. Nobody ever said it was going to be painless, just that it will hopefully be more painful for EA in the long run.
If the piracy rate is low? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see how that affects their decisions. Spore has reportedly been pirated half a million times - how has the DRM changed that? All it's done is piss off the paying customers, who are being treated like criminals.
DRM doesn't work against pirates. It only works against the honest people. When will companies learn that?
Re:If the piracy rate is low? (Score:5, Insightful)
To the contrary, I think it's probably driven MORE people to pirating the game just so they can say "screw you" to EA for the excessive DRM.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was going to buy the Spore "Collector's Edition" if it wasn't for SecuROM. I'm sure I'm not alone. Even if most people would have waited for it to be 30$ or 20$, a lot of my friends were considering buying it. I told them not to, that we'll just get a cracked version.
I don't think anybody who wanted to buy the game and knew about the DRM actually bought it. Or if they did they're running a cracked version and bought the game due to troll's remorse or received it as a gift.
DRM = Digitally Restricted Media (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. I was interested in this game and I surely would have bought it had I not learned of the DRM issues. Thank goodness for all of the outcry and press on this otherwise I might have fallen into the trap. I'm not much of a gamer, but the reviews of this game made we want to get it (the complaints hard-core gamers had of it actually made it appeal to me). I like how Will Wright's games are about "playing" rather than "winning".
But the DRM issue made me reconsider. I surely wasn't going to just buy
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, it'll work great! The used market for Spore is going to be stillborn. Of course, it hasn't done the new market any good either....
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If they get a lower piracy rate to sale rate with Red Alert 3, it will tell them that DRM harms sales. Simple.
Less Piracy - Less DRM? WRONG! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future.
That's not how it works. If the piracy rate is low, they will herald their measures as a success, and it will only serve to increase the amount of DRM in the future.
-G
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
says who?
Ea aren't retards, they are the biggest games company in existence. They PAY for the RDM, and for their customer service reps. if they think they could get away with ditching DRM tomorrow they would. Personally, I think they *could* ditch it tomorrow, and not hurt sales, but they seem to disagree.
Anyway you look at it, jerks like that kid on thepiratebay saying "everyone make this the most pirated game ever!" are NOT going to get DRM removed.
The success of stardock and similar companies will do mor
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gah, should be DRM, not RDM. bloody lack of edit thing :D
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They PAY for the RDM, and for [...]
Restrictions Digital Management; riight... Use grammar French much?
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Please note: I made absolutely NO claim that the contrapositive of my original statement is true. That is, I claimed that decreased piracy DOES NOT induce decreased DRM. I did NOT, however, claim that increased piracy DOES induce decreased DRM.
The simple fact of the matter is that NOTHING induces decreased DRM. DRM is both the inevitable future of media, and the inevitable doom.
Yeah, it's a bummer.
-G
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If they decrease DRM, and sales go up and piracy goes down... Now yeah, some business guys are dumb... but the obvious conclusion is...
a small victory. (Score:2, Interesting)
it's a step. keep protesting and keep pirating and one day we'll see a more consumer-friendly business model.
DRM, the snake oil of content producers (Score:5, Insightful)
No airtight DRM is possible (and Spore's already been cracked). But content producers are so obsessed with absolute control that they'll beg people to take money to sell them snake oil. Of course, this always works [rocknerd.co.uk]. Yeah.
Others speculate the real target of game DRM is to kill the second-hand market [neoseeker.com]. But, of course, that does no good when the competition is the cracked copies. Piracy: The Better Choice. [theinquirer.net]
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Record companies loathe and despise the second-hand market too. The first-sale doctrine never did go down well with them.
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So what about First Sale Doctrine?
I have a RIGHT to sell whatever I want, especially what I buy from a boxed store.
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Yea, you have the right to sell it. But they have the right to turn it into a coaster before you do, if you agree to the license terms. If you don't agree to the license terms you aren't installing it anyways, so you can resell it.
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It's not hard to remove watermarks.
Get X versions of the file with watermarks. Now, use diff between them to create a diff on each pair. Determine the relationship of watermarks.
Then remove said watermarks. If removal is not possible, mutilate them so they are unrecoverable. If mutiliation is not possible, copy watermarked file from a fake buyer, "John Q. Public". Disposable "credit cards" are quite nice.
Company sues John Q Public. Nobody knows who that is.
Watermarks assume that I cannot transfer OWNERSHIP
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Pirates are a cost of business. And even many companies have encouraged pirates (Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia--prior to buyout). Even Metallica supported them, until their Napster blow-out.
What they ought to fear is Customers switching over to the evil side. Crap like DRM encourages behaviors like no-cd cracks, serial gens, and other fixing tech. When the real paying customers realize that the pirate Arrrr versions are without anti-user tech, and simple to install... Well, why pay for crap quality when you
Activation? What Activation? (Score:5, Funny)
The version I just got off of usenet didn't ask me to... oh, nevermind, that's right, DRM is only meant to piss off ACTUAL customers.
I'll be enjoying my drmFREE game now. kthxbye.
You're fixing the wrong problems! (Score:4, Interesting)
Having to call EA to persuade them to let you install the game a sixth time is a potential inconvenience. EA may not exist in a year or two. I might still want to play the game if EA doesn't exist! We're still leasing. Just because we're leasing on more generous terms doesn't mean we're getting a better deal. They've clobbered any potential resale value.
If piracy is low, EA will assume this works and use this scheme every time.
Pirate this as well!
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Having to have a CD in the drive is a minor inconvenience. Easily solved (put the CD in the drive. any legitimate user will have one).
I see... Just how how many copies of ONE game should I buy due to disk wear?
I had to buy ANOTHER copy of C&C:Renegade to replace the disk worn from years of use... just so I could PLAY the game I supposedly had rights to play. I wish people would quit assuming that the only people that use no-CD cracks are those that're pirating the game.
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People on slashdot have frequently complained about about Windows activation which ues a free number (no matter where you are) asks you 2-3 simple questions (how many machines is this installed on, why are you reinstalling and where did you get the disc) and can be gotten through in roughly 4
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It seems fairly straightforward to invoice them for your resonable costs in phoning them up. If they don't pay, take them to small claims.
Re:Generous terms ? Compromise ? Haha. (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see a tiny bit of a case for the CD-check (though quite honestly, no, I do not agree with it -- it's YET ANOTHER thing that pirates don't have to deal with. If you have kids, you will definitely not want them to handle unprotected (physically) media too much -- the scratches will be a killjoy; Legitimate owners of games have been using NoCD-patches for AGES; it's ineffective, it inconveniences your customers (the ones that PAY you for the game, no less), etc.
The leasing is not really on any "generous"
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Has anyone confirmed three activations on Spore (Score:3, Informative)
In any case, "relaxing to five" is still a kick in the crotch, or would be if EA didn't censor that part of my creatures.
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Since it's server side, I'd imagine that you just have to configure a number in a file or table to change the number of activations ; perhaps Spore and Red Alert are on the same database?
Three activations was widely speculated to be the door-in-the-face, with five "not sounding so bad".
OTOH, Stardock did things the right way ; they got me to fill in a survey (I said - No DRM!), and gave me a 20% coupon code, which encouraged me to buy a game that isn't even released yet. Now that's the right way to market g
Thanks for the warning (Score:5, Interesting)
Limited installs is not acceptable. I am off to cancel my Red Alert preorder and leave a nasty review.
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If you like supporting indie developers that don't piss you off with DRM, it might be worthwhile looking at Multiwinia! [introversion.co.uk]
</spam>
Not about piracy... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future."
It's NOT about piracy, it's about removing the ability to transfer your game to someone else (used game sales, lending to a friend, etc).
Inverted Bait and Switch (Score:2)
First they try to force-feed us with some outright horrible DRM, and now they try to sell us a slighly lighter variant of this DRM as an "improvement".
I promised myself never to buy a DRM laden "can't ever resell" game. That's also the reason why I never bought HL2 or Bioshock. If I BUY a game I want to OWN it, and not only be able to install and/or play the game at the publisher's pleasure.
DRM in games must go! (Score:5, Informative)
Why is it we still have silly piracy protection like starforce and securom? Just the other day I was fighting with Crysis, it suddenly would hang when launched. What was worse was that damn securom CD icon that hijacks your mouse cursor wouldn't go away until a reboot. So what did I have to do? Go to game copy world and download a patched "no DVD" exe for a game I BOUGHT WITH MY MONEY! Now what is sad. The execs should pull their heads out of their asses and see that they are wasting dev time and money with buggy and possibly destructive DRM. Piracy cant be defeated with silly cd check mechanisms, cd keys, phone homes, or dongles. It just doesn't work and will be cracked within days. Please stop screwing us after we already paid for the software.
Fuck EA and all their studios that bow under pressure to "protect" their IP. Spore sounds like an amazing game but that will be marred for many who have to fight with suckrom constantly crashing. Looks like another legit game that will have to be cracked to work. And ONLY 5 installs? What happens after 5 years if I want to play again? Will there be someone at an EA support desk to give me a new key? What if EA goes under? Unbelievable.
Re: (Score:2)
I spent 6 hours trying to get Brothers in Arms to run "legitimately" on my PC after buying it. I eventually gave up and downloaded the no DVD crack to get it running. Quite sad.
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Why even buy it?
Pirate version on Piratebay is pre-cracked and works 100%.
Your paid for version doesnt work 100%.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps he has this archaic belief that people should be compensated for their efforts? That if no-one paid for games, there would be nothing but homebrew? Perhaps he enjoys playing games with high production values?
I personally think it's a shame that many of the developers whose games I enjoyed in the 80s have folded, because the ones that are left are benefitting from their hard work. I was never going to buy games back then because I had no disposable income. Now I don't hesitate .... except when confro
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---Now I don't hesitate .... except when confronted by this kind of DRM.
Thats precisely what I mean.
There's NO, and I repeat, NO reason to financially reward any company that uses anti-customer software against them. I still get it and use it. They just dont get my money.
What improvement? (Score:4, Insightful)
Red Alert 3 will give us infinity minus five too few installs. Not an improvement in my book.
I don't think the install limit is really about piracy anyway, it's a method to force you to buy the game more than once and to prevent you from buying it second hand.
So its exactly the same (Score:3, Insightful)
Everything on RA 3 is exactly the same as Spore, except with a 5 instead of a 3. Nothing has changed. Its clear that EA doesn't get it, and they'll need a few games to completely bomb before they do.
Some Compromise! (Score:3, Funny)
EA says they will have staff standing by to grant more installations as necessary on a case by case basis. So, while this still isn't optimal, at least we are getting a compromise.
This is like a rapist saying that instead of anally violating you, he'll settle for oral. It's a shitty compromise.
LK
"At least we are getting a compromise" (Score:2, Insightful)
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
COMPROMISE? Yeah, instead of renting a game for 3 installs, you're renting it for 5. WELL WHOOPDEEDOO. I'm not paying for what amoun
Boycotting DRM (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless DRM is dropped, I'm not buying games anymore. It was painful enough to deal with "CD must be in drive" hoping for a good no-cd crack to be released by the community; but now this... XP style activation? Limited number of activations? Unacceptable.
This change is no change at all (Score:2)
It still will be using SecuROM, which blows out your DVD drive, to the point of not letting you play the darn game if you have a DVD-writer that falls under certain conditions.
The problem is not authentication and so on. The problem is the DRM software is inherently broken.
Also, the DRM in Spore actually breaks the game: you can only have one Spore account per copy of the game. So your little brother can't have his own account, contrary to what it says in the manual. This is solely an adaptation because of
The thing that really sucks about this (Score:2)
For the first time, we have had the slightest impact on a manufacturer by spreading the truth.
I bet you anything I know what the next step is.
Within a year, mentioning DRM problems in a review on Amazon will be cause for removing your comment.
In the meantime, they will just chalk up their drop in sales to pirating.
Bend over, it's on the way.
It's All About (Score:5, Insightful)
Be honest! Spore is nothing more than a very expensive rental game now -- not a purchase.
And the only way to make this all go away is to absolutely refuse to buy their product because other manufacturers will follow suit.
I've never pirated a game, but if I wanted to try out Spore I'd pirate a cracked copy of this one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is definitely true, but it's worth nothing who is being targeted here. It's not the consumer EA is going for, it's the retailer that EA is after. Gamestop and their ilk, who up until fairly recently have largely been traditional retailers, have heavily gone in to the used game business. It's very profitable for them, they buy a game for pennies and then resell it for MSRP-$5, pocketing a nice profit in the process.
The Entertainment Software Association and its members have taken great offense to this,
Install in a VM (Score:2)
DRM + High Cost = Piracy (Score:3, Insightful)
The last 2 big games I bought was Doom 3 and Return to Castle Wolfenstein.. and the expansion pack for Doom 3.
And that's been a while, I know, I know.
But whatever the protection on these games are, I certainly don't mind. Got to register, have the CD in the first time, that's pretty much it.
But paying for a game, and having the amount of times I can re-installed it controlled is not good, and forcing the CD in the game at all times, without being able to even make a legitimate backup isn't good either.
I will never buy games like that. This DRM is causing pirating in the first place, that and the high cost of the games.
Because I loved the Doom franchise, I didn't mind forking out the 70$ back then, when it came out. Same for Wolfenstein, although as I recall, I only paid about 45$ for the game.
But in the end, when a game is more than 30$ for PC, Unless it's got a killer review and I mean a KILLER review, I will more than likely not going to buy it and no matter how cheap the game is in price, if I have to suffer that level of DRM, such as limited amount of installs and having the CD in at all times, I'm keeping my money and spending it on console games like the Wii.
Anyways, that's how I see it.
EA management (Score:3, Insightful)
Sometimes I get the feeling that the management of a company seems determined to undermine their position and drive their company to the ground... ... or maybe the EA execs never played a game in their life.
Take Red Alerts' main competitor: Starcraft. There are people still playing it, now, more than 12 years after its release (and I understand there'sa huge community). I still have Red Alert 1 on a shelf and I actually played it a little last year, just for the good time's sake.
I have many games I cherish, despite not having a lot of time to play. Last month I replayed Lucas Arts' Full Throttle (through Dos Box).
Limiting a game to 5 installs is more idiotic than limiting a movie to 5 viewings (I don't watch again 90% of the movies, and there are only 1 or 2 I saw 5 times) and I doubt that those who actually bought Spore were fully aware of the implications. Not to worry, they will learn. And when they do, EA will have less customers...
Time To Use Big Content's Methods (Score:4, Interesting)
If the content industry wants to ruin people's lives under the assumption that downloading games/movies/music inderectly harms the artists that create them, they need to be held accountable by the same rules. People refusing to buy due to publisher meddling is DIRECTLY harming the artists and developers in this case. They (the publisher) need to either admit that they were wrong and greedy, or be painted with the exact same brush they seem to want everyone else painted with.
Someone needs to send a message to these assholes that treating your PAYING CUSTOMERS like criminals will NOT be tolerated.
Hypothetically. (Score:5, Informative)
Hypthotically speaking, from what I've heard about the game, even my youngest (6) would enjoy the game (and would even progress this past weekend to the start tribes level herself). My second youngest would also love the game, and make it even further than that, loving the game. My 15 year old would also enjoy many hours in the game. Myself and my girlfriend would also have truly enjoyed the game, and make it to the tribes level, although not as far as my kids, and are looking forward to playing it further. All ages would seem to enjoy the game, and find value in it. Hypothetically.
If it were sale for $30, and no silly DRM, we would have bought a copy, but we didn't. The online game play looks very interesting, but with the DRM we won't bother to find that out, sadly. The torrented version (I hear) plays fine for single player, with no authentication hassles.
I bought Half-Life 2 a few years back, when I was living in a small cottage. Years later, no chance in hell of finding the box, my son asked me to play the game. After failing to find the original discs, I started a torrent going (I mean at least I could, hypothetically), but remembered that along with the lost boxed copy of Half-Life was an associated Steam account. I guessed at my probable username/password, and got in successfully. I realized I could now not just download patches (which used to take forever on my satellite internet in the boonies :), but I could also install the whole game from scratch. On multiple computers in the house. (With four kids, mobility between the PC's is very helpful). I ended up installing it on four different computers. We never used (and presumably couldn't) use more than one copy at once. That's fine. We weren't looking to abuse our purchase. We weren't looking to run more than one copy at once. We just wanted to play our one copy, when and where we wanted, and Steam allowed just that, and with very fast downloads. We had many, many hours of enjoyment going through the levels together, taking turns. If they had chosen EA/Spore-like DRM, this would have never happened. That has a *huge* amount of value to me.
Plus, there was a fair bit of additional content (forgotten highway, Counterstrike, etc...) that weren't in my original box. And some pretty reasonably prices for some additional promotional games they had running.
To even lump Steam into the pile of steaming DRM out there seems insane to me, when I see someone criticize it. It lets me download and play the game I bought, anywhere, anytime, even though it's a big honkin' game.
I wish EA would wake up and smell the roses. Steam has proven that license management doesn't have to be offensive to users, but they still persist. Such a waste, especially for such a cool game. Sure, check my account's validity and in-use status when I run it (no two-copies-at-once for a single account) but let me download and run it from anywhere. I'm happy, you're happy. It's not freakin' rocket science in this day and age...
Re:Yeah, sure its because of some comments on Amaz (Score:5, Insightful)
"I'm not really sure what's the way to go on it, but I know posting some BS FUD on Amazon like "SONY ROOTKITTED ME OMG!" and claiming victory when they raise the install limit to 5 is not the way to go."
I buy from Amazon a lot.. and I've also been waiting anxiously for Spore. So I went on over to Amazon the other day to pre-order it and was a little shocked to see 1 star ratings. So I read the reviews. They were a very far cry from "SONY ROOTKITTED ME OMG!". They were thorough, intelligent, well thought-out and actually educated me on the whole securom thing as I haven't been on /. that much lately and missed the article(s) about Spore's DRM.
Anyway, the comments actually persuaded me to not buy the game. I don't feel like paying hard-earned money for something that will only install X number of times (even if the number is 1,000 I don't care. Like other people I've still got games that are 15+ years old that I install every once in a while for old-time's sake) and will phone home and require an Internet connection every time I play it etc.
Customer feedback is the single most important thing that a business needs to pay attention to in order to succeed. Restaurants can not grow without reading comment cards and responding to their customers complaints and suggestions. Game companies can not grow by pissing off their customers. If EA ignores the negative feedback about this DRM then they deserve to be out of business in a couple of years. I was going to e-mail them to explain why I decided not to buy Spore but I couldn't find a contact address. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Re:Yeah, sure its because of some comments on Amaz (Score:4, Interesting)
I would gladly take CD checks over limited installs any day. Red Alert series is known for its replayability and people play it for years on end, unlike most games. Limited install don't cut it.
EA, let us pick our poison. Enable limited installs only if the I choose the disk check to not bother them. However, the problem seems to be that disk checking is now seen as an unreliable method by the companies.
Also, do these companies plan to ultimately release patches that remove DRM after a set period of time?, say 3-5 years when they won't be running authentication servers or just simply decide that you don't own the game anymore?
Re:Yeah, sure its because of some comments on Amaz (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is the magic of running a business as something than a sole proprietorship (which I assure you Valve is doing). Customers can sue the company for whatever reason, but the employees themselves and their assets (from the janitorial staff through the C-level execs) are completely protected*. If the company falls over dead one day, precisely what do you expect to receive as the result of winning a class-action? They have no assets for you to collect on. Maybe you could pick up a cardboard cutout of Gor
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Why can't they use NO DRM, and see how that goes?
Because it would probably lead to higher sales and show the world they have been complete idiots for a very long time.
The Brad Wardell interview from a bit back lays it out nicely. Removing DRM gave higher sales. Allowing the return of games for full refund gave higher sales.