TrueMotion Game Controller a Step Up From Wii Remote 187
Harry McCracken writes "One of my top picks at the Consumer Electronics Show was Sixense's TrueMotion, a game-controller technology that resembles the Wii's remote, but uses an electromagnetic field to provide far more precision — it knows the exact location of the controller in 3D space and which way you're pointing it. (The Wiimote only knows which direction you're moving the controller.) TrueMotion-based remotes are due by Christmas, bundled with a PC game for under $100."
I call Bullshit (Score:5, Funny)
According to the Heisenburg uncertainty principle its impossible to know both where an object is precisely, and where its heading.
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i'm going with Zeno's paradoxes and arguing that movement and therefore measurement of it is impossible,
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Newton beats you up with Leibniz sitting in the corner waiting for the tag team.
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You forgot to add "beyond a point of precision."
Turn in your physics nerd badge.
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fortunately the localisation error on a "slow" moving macroscopic object is a small fraction of the width of an atom.
I suspect that there are larger sources of error within the system.
Re:I call Bullshit (Score:5, Funny)
That would be the joke.
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In soviet russia, where object is heading IS where object is.
There was a reason I made a far, far worse joke, but the shock of the monstrosity I had created made me forget it...
Re:I call Bullshit (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe he knew exactly where the joke was heading, and thus couldn't locate it.
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and according to the Slashdot comment principle it is impossible to post an insightful comment while simultaneously getting the joke that one is replying to
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Just because you don't have mad gaming skillz like me, doesn't mean I don't want a controller that could keep up with my moves to the Planck length.
Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:5, Informative)
The statement "The Wiimote only knows which direction you're moving the controller" is not accurate, The Wiimote has a three axis accelerometer in addition to an infrared camera. The camera looks for two infrared LEDs on the "sensor bar" and depending on the distance between the LEDs and their position in the image from the camera the Wiiremote can fairly accurately determine where it is pointed on the screen.
Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:4, Informative)
Additionally they're releasing the Motion Plus in the future that would allow accurate tracking of where the thing is pointed.
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I wouldn't say it's "fairly accurate" at all, it can only determine where it's pointing on screen relevant to the size of the sensor bar. So if you have an insanely large screen, your movements become much more pronounced.
It's also not very accurate in terms of motion. Move too quickly (and it's not that quickly at all) and it gets confused. This is why a lot of games only require tiny movements to make huge movements on screen, the only thing it knows are the velocity and the direction it's moving in.
Since
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I wouldn't say it's "fairly accurate" at all,
I agree with that statement. For what Nintendo does with it, though, this doesn't matter -- since we humans can see what our actions do on the screen, and we just act like complicated and squishy feedback controllers to make things behave as we want -- without thinking much about it.
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Since we have Gravity, it knows it's orientation in most directions.
Actually, gravity is a highly complicating factor. When upright, the Wiimote knows it has an upwards acceleration. If you move it to the right, the wii mote has no way of knowing if that acceleration is from being moved to the right, or if the wii mote was tilted to the left and gravity is doing its work. You can get an upwards and backwards acceleration by keeping the wiimote upright and pulling back, tilting it about 45 degrees down an
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Yeah but the force of gravity is a constant, so it should be theoretically possible to calculate it's direction when it's tilted.
The problem is, if you tilt it away from the sensor bar, it's partially blinded.
Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:5, Insightful)
That statement is accruate.
The wiimote knows that direction it is moving in wiimote space, but not world space. I can prove it to you. Face north, hold the wiimote directly out in front of you with the A button facing up, and move it horizontally to the right. The force will push the accelerometer x-axis to the left, so the wiimote knows it is moving right. Now turn your body 90 degrees so you are facing east. Move the wiimote again to the right. Just like before the wiimote knows it is moving to the right. However, relative to the room you are standing in, you just moved the wiimote in two completely different directions. The wiimote doesn't know that.
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Erm, thats obvious.
Acceleration is the second derivative of position. If you define a certain point as origin (say, a certain orientation stationary on your desk), then you have a 3 coordinate system in which X and Y are complete 0 and Z is 9.8ms^2.
Once we have reference point, we can calculate via acceleration on the 3 axes the velocity through space and orientation of said wiimote. However, the wiimote is only accurate to +/- 3g, which is very acceptable for a game console in such a small profile.
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Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:4, Informative)
Using the wiimote as a pointer (Score:2)
http://blog.dawnofthegeeks.com/2009/01/01/a-better-wiimote-pointer/ [dawnofthegeeks.com]
You have to use the accelerometer data and the IR data in order to figure out where the wiimote is located in 3D space and what direction it is pointing.
http://blog.dawnofthegeeks.com/2009/01/08/elmos-world-the-video-game/ [dawnofthegeeks.com]
Elmo's World: The Video Game is a homebrew product with 3 mini games demonstrating the use of the Wiimote as a pointing device.
The TrueMotion controller uses a lot more sophisticated materials and methods to get a more accu
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Yeah, summary is wrong, TFA is somewhat correct:
(benefits over wiimote) "it can tell exactly where it is and what angle youâ(TM)re holding it at."
Erm, ok. (Score:2)
Im sure it will work for Windows..
What kind of an API can we get for the Linux side? I mean, I can think of some rather cool ideas (like using one to trace a wall for input on a virtual wall and using the remote to draw on the v-wall).
And what's the power output like, along with frequency?
Soo may questions, so little information.
Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no economic sense in a game developer using this. Until Microsoft mandates that a bit of hardware is required for a "Genuine" windows machine, it will not factor in to any rational developers plans. And in this case its never going to happen, because it notionally excludes laptops, and no matter how painful it is in reality to play a mouse and keyboard game on a touchpad, its still "possible".
Anyway, MS want PC gaming dead just as much as everybody else now that X360 has been a relative success: any hardware innovation has to come from single source manufacturers, and in reality that means console manufacturers - and only Nintendo actually wants to even try - and Apple. All the clone makers just like to cower in a corner and pray for a behemoth like Intel, MS, or Google to innovate for them...
Its sad really, that the 80's with myriad incompatible silos of innovation seem so bright nowadays...
Re:Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
For me at least, if PC gaming is dead, then windows is dead.
OSX and Linux are more than adequate for my Internet and business applications.
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For me at least, if PC gaming is dead, then windows is dead.
If PC gaming is dead, then indie gaming is dead. The vast majority of indie games are developed on and for PCs running Windows, Linux, *BSD, or Mac OS X, or they are developed on one of those for a phone.
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True. So you can rephrase that to
"If Mainstream PC gaming is dead, then windows is dead."
Which is still problematic because of OpenOffice crappyness and other things. But I'd say that windows becomes less important when mainstream PC gaming is dead.
Which won't happen because first person shooters and real time strategy only work on PCs.
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Which won't happen because first person shooters and real time strategy only work on PCs.
I won't deny that the Mac gaming market is in shambles now but things get better every year as:
(a) sales of Apple machines come back around
(b) devs realize that even though there's less Macs around, OS X ports sell a disproportionately larger amount
(c) cross-platform coding gets easier, and hardware support for OpenGL gets better
This all applies to linux as well.
http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/ [wolfire.com]
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I wouldn't go so far as to say indie gaming is dead. Torque [garagegames.com] has ports to the Xbox, wii and iPhone. Sure it takes a whole lot more to get agreements with the content providers instead of just buying a development kit from GG but it is doable.
The days of a small group making a game without any real money involved are probably not so bright. We can hope that the iPhone and Android give us a new batch of indie developers with interesting ideas.
not necessarily (Score:2)
One of the most successful indie games of 2008, Braid [braid-game.com], was sold via XBox Live.
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$10 casual PSN/Live games are basically making even indie PC games irrelevant.
But then how does an indie developer get his product onto PSN? Xbox Live I can see; you need a Vista-capable PC running Windows Vista or Windows XP, an Xbox 360 with a hard drive, the $99/year XNA Creators Club subscription, and enough time to rewrite your game in C#+DirectX, and you can try to publish in Community Games. But don't Sony and Nintendo require a developer to be at least this tall to get into PSN or WiiWare?
What happened to PC gamepads and joystick market?
Logitech still makes decent gamepads, and PS2 controllers work with a PC through the "EM
What devices? (Score:2)
Not really, because indie gaming is possible on Linux, and Linux doesn't only run on PCs.
A lot of devices sold to home users that run Linux have no display beyond a couple LEDs, such as a router. Set-top devices that run Linux tend to be Tivoized, meaning they run only binaries that have been digitally signed by the adversary, making them not much different from a major video game console and definitely incompatible with GPLv3 apps and LGPLv3 libraries. The rest are either PCs (such as ASUS Eee PC or Dell's N series [dell.com]) or phones (such as T-Mobile G1), as I already mentioned
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*nods*
Same here. (I could finally set my hardware clock to GMT! Oh Joy!)
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The key word here is "me" and it is one the geek uses far too often.
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This maybe has a chance:
If they make the API open and give dev's a way to easily integrate.
If they collaborate with other device makers to settle on a common ground for functionality. This type of device, I am guessing will make it's way into PC mainstream at some point. One standard will come out on top. They need to make sure they help drive that standard.
If they allow other hardware makers to create devices that also work against that API so the developers aren't putting an effort into something that
Re:Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:4, Insightful)
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lol, I would so much hate an Apple console.
Price would be as a PS3 (high), hardware specs like a PSP (hit&miss on features) and the software would be like Wii sports (good idea and easy to pick up but missing out on depth.)
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Not if it's expensive (Score:2)
It'll make economic sense when the consumer can get the controller for under $50 and can make use of it with software they already have.
I put together an Elmo game
http://blog.dawnofthegeeks.com/2009/01/08/elmos-world-the-video-game/ [dawnofthegeeks.com]
for my daughter who's not quite 2 yet using the Wiimote and the XNA Game Library. But since it costs $40-50 for the controller plus $20 or so for a bluetooth adapter there's probably not going to be much demand for Wiimote enabled games on the PC.
However if PCs came equipped by
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I was struck by the discovery that the Mitsubishi "3D Ready" has made the home shopping channels.
The laptop display isn't "the only game in town."
The desktop PC remains a very flexible platform that can deliver a lot of bang for the buck - both for the developer and the user.
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Its a point about the politics of the thing - nothing to do with the practicality. MS will never require a piece of hardware that laptops can't have built in to be a "genuine" windows machine, and no game dev will spend their own money ( rather than a hardware manufacturers VC money ) on supporting a peripheral that is not required.
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MS will never require a piece of hardware that laptops can't have built in to be a "genuine" windows machine
Laptops can have at least a Wii-style sensor bar built in: just put a couple LEDs at the top corners of the LCD.
no game dev will spend their own money ( rather than a hardware manufacturers VC money ) on supporting a peripheral that is not required.
Activision and Konami [gamasutra.com] spent money on including a plastic guitar with the Guitar Hero games. Or would you count video game publishers as venture-capital-supported hardware manufacturers?
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They tried it in the pre-PC days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX [wikipedia.org]
I'd be surprised if they did something like that now, given that it would amount to them pissing off their biggest customers, and needlessly adding tiers to the Vista Ready/Vista Capable scheme.
Does anyone think these things through? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know about you, but when I use my computer, I'm sitting at a desk with a keyboard and a mouse. I'm too close to my monitor to start pointing a remote at it.
I also can't imagine putting the remote down, use the keyboard, picking the remote again, repeat.
The Wiimote is a great idea because we can't really use a mouse when sitting in front of a TV, and crappy, small, over-touchy analog sticks on a gamepad is a stupid idea to begin with.
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It could be better, the motions that it wants aren't very good ergonomically for many. Pointing and rotating at the same time is something which is quite stressful on the wrist.
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I don't know about you, but when I use my computer, I'm sitting at a desk with a keyboard and a mouse.
In other words, you "don't know about" home theater PC owners. Some people use their HTPCs to watch video; others use them to play games. Unlike a console, a PC can play indie games.
I also can't imagine putting the remote down, use the keyboard, picking the remote again, repeat.
Then put a half-gamepad in the other hand. Nintendo sells such a half-gamepad for Wii under the name "Nunchuk".
Finally! (Score:2)
Now people will be able to bump against walls of the room and fall out of windows as they try to duck the enemy fire.
If they provide Linux drivers (Score:2)
...or at least good specs, there will be lots of people developing for this thing. At least one, me :-)
If it's as bad as the movie... (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps I'm overly cynical of input technologies, but my take from the movie is that this is a *disaster*.
Start with the best configuration the company could manage for the demo, with in-house software, and an experienced user. The system is still laggy and periodically jerky. It has the same lack of feedback as the Wiimote, so you need similarly simple gestures to make it usable. Their one advantage is that the position sensor should be orientation-independent, whereas the Wiimote's camera needs to see the
Not new, just cheaper (Score:2)
This isn't new; it's just cheaper. Magnetic motion tracking devices [polhemus.com] have been around for two decades. I had a chance to try "virtual ping pong", like this thing does, on an Autodesk system demoed at the Hacker's Conference two decades ago. All the gloves-and-goggles systems use magnetic trackers like this. So do some of the tracking systems used for motion capture. If you've been to SIGGRAPH, you've probably seen a dancer up on a platform wired up with multiple sensors, driving an animated character o
When proportions of actor and character differ (Score:2)
If you've been to SIGGRAPH, you've probably seen a dancer up on a platform wired up with multiple sensors, driving an animated character on a screen. [But...] Even relative accuracy wasn't that good. When I saw these things at SIGGRAPH, I'd sometimes gesture to the dancer demoing the thing to put her hands together, forefinger to forefinger. If the character on screen showed the forefingers touching, the system had decent relative accuracy. Usually it didn't.
Some of these real-time motion capture systems have a cartoon character with exaggerated proportions on the other end. Character proportions in some art styles are supposed to differ from those of the actor; that's how we get Precious Moments figurines that are 2.6 heads tall [wikipedia.org], not the typical 6 to 8 of a human. How would you expect a mo-cap system to correct for short, stubby fingers on some characters?
Sounds like the expired Wacom patents (Score:2)
I could give a damn about a 3D game controller. But I would very much like to see cheap 3D input devices for animation and motion capture. Perhaps we'll first see this new Wii remote retrofitted to 3D software like Max. Can't happen soon enough!
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Latency (Score:2)
Latency seems to be pretty high, doesn't it?
Nintendo Announced this LAST YEAR (Score:2)
The Motion Plus is a small device that snaps into the bottom of the Wii remote to increase precision. Look for it soon to be packaged with Wii Sports Resort as well as a stand alone package.
It was demonstrated at E3 and looked very good.
+5 points for the idea, -500 for being months behind Nintendo.
This is why I never took to the Wii. (Score:2)
EM field (Score:2)
As an added bonus, you can automatically play the "Mess with Grandpa's pacemaker" game.
(Note, if you are going to start blabbing about how the field isn't strong enough or something like that: preemptivewoosh)
It's a shame... (Score:2)
Sounds like a great controller but it won't benefit from the network effect like the wiimote.
I finally got a wii, it sat for about 7 months before I finally used it.
It's okay- I bowl on it. The star trek game seems pretty painful so far.
What I'd like is a basic RTS. seems like a dream combo.
I have a 55" screen and control seems fine.
This new remote is better- but because it is an add on, not a standard feature, it will join a million other great controllers that we don't even remember.
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It's okay- I bowl on it. The star trek game seems pretty painful so far.
What Star Trek game hasn't been painful (not counting the old BASIC text-based Star Trek game)? Try some games that make good use of the Wiimote. From my experience: Boom Blox, Okami, Zelda - Twilight Princess (yes, it's not what it _could_ be, but it's better than several games). It sounds like you were blase about the wii to begin with though; seven months is a long time for a geek to let a new piece of technology sit untested.
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A Wii in the home will strengthen any family.
"The family that plays together...stays together."
"The family that Wiis together...is unhygienic."
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1. That's funny because my mom and dad are c
Buying one console+TV+pads vs. buying four PCs (Score:2)
That's funny because my mom and dad are currently raiding together in WoW. Two different PCs in the same room. (Well, actually four PCs, but they're complete nerds like that.) You don't need a single TV to play together, you know.
Not every family has enough complete nerds to warrant budgeting the purchase of a PC for each household member and replacements when new games no longer work and old games are out of print. Some families would even have to buy more PCs than household members if they want to host play dates. Case in point: you can buy an Xbox 360 Elite or a slim PC, a 32" 720p monitor, and extra controllers for 1,200 USD. For the same price, you could buy four Eee PCs, but would their video performance keep up with even the
Don't get me wrong... (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying consoles (Wii included) don't have their advantages. In fact, I'm usually on the console side of PC-vs-Consoles flamewars. So I'm not going to argue with you much about the price, etc.
My main problem is merely with the false dichotomy of, basically, "Wiis are for the whole family, PCs only have Quake-like stuff for antisocial teenagers". It's just plain old not true. The average PC gamer is actually in the 30's nowadays, and even the retired senior citizen extreme is actua
Monitors cost money too (Score:2)
I'm not saying consoles (Wii included) don't have their advantages. In fact, I'm usually on the console side of PC-vs-Consoles flamewars.
I'm on the fence, but I wish I were on the HTPC side. Indie developers can self-publish for PC; they can't easily for a console without rewriting the whole game in C# (or a dialect of C++ that looks more like C#), paying $495 extra for 5 years of access to XNA Creators Club, and praying that their game will be included in the next batch of Community Games. On the other hand, there just aren't enough arcade-style games for PCs other than emulators that use either legal ROMs (e.g. Midway Arcade Treasures) or
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1. Looking through Alternate again, I see a 17" TFT at 92 euro. Again, you'll probably want to do the VAT trick and all that. It'll fit under 600 per computer total.
It's only a TN, and only 1440x900 resolution, so you probably don't want to do graphics processing on it, but it'll play WoW all right.
2. And a second copy of an MMO won't really break the bank these days either.
You can get a copy of COH/COV for 2 Euro more than the price of a month, and it includes a "free" month. So essentially you're getting
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Console gaming will never be more advanced then computer gaming and it shouldnt be.
Console gaming IS more advanced then computer gaming for the sheer ability to just plain work as advertised.
How many console games require a new graphic card, new processor, more memory, DirectX/drivers updates or OS upgrades?
You plug it in, turn it on, drop in the CD/DVD/cartridge and it works.
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install...
For actual gameplay - consoles have been kicking PC's ass for years now.
But, if you find fiddling around your PC
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Only game niches where PC still keeps the crowd entertained with greater efficiency are RTS, FPS and MMORPG games.
And like nobody plays those!
Only game niches where consoles beat PCs is local multiplayer games sitting in the couch and eventually RPGs.
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RPGs?? I don't so, maybe action RPGs like the japanese ones, but classic RPGs requires better interfaces than a console provides. The few RPGs, like Oblivion that have been on both Console and PC have had an absolutely horrible and useless user-interface.
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local multiplayer games sitting in the couch
As more and more people hook their PCs up to their TVs, I wonder if split-screen gaming will come to the PC? I wonder if, now, you could plug four wireless USB keyboards and mice (or game controllers?) into a PC, run four instances of, say, Quake 3 in windows (with each configured to use a different keyboard+mouse/gamepad for input), and play a multiplayer game through a server on localhost -- so everyone can play on your big HDTV from the couch? Obviously configuration would be at least a minor pain in
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Followup:
A modern PC* can handily run four instances of Quake 3 at 80+ FPS. And yes, one instance can host a game and the others can connect to localhost. The only issue is control: I suspect that you can only control whichever instance has focus. But I wouldn't be surprised if a program could be written to send the appropriate messages to the different windows.
* Tested on a Thinkpad T61 w. nVidia Quadro NVS 140M and Core 2 Duo at 2.2 GHz.
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Followup 2:
These guys [youtube.com] had the same idea. In the discussion beneath the video, they talk about using programs called "xpadder" and "autohotkey" to control both windows simultaneously. From the sounds of things, this is a promising approach, but people haven't invested a lot of time into figuring out these program's scripting languages in order to make this work.
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Followup 3:
It seems that xpaddr converts gamepad button presses to keystrokes, and autohotkey is used to send those keystrokes to the correct windows. These guys [epicgames.com] have gotten this much working. Yet although dual-mouse drivers [sourceforge.net] exist, I have not found people who have gotten two mice working independently in different instances of the game. That said, if you're content with using a gamepad instead of a mouse, this seems to work.
It'd be nice if this mishmash of different software could be bundled together as a
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Followup 4:
Another approach would be to set up a Xephyr multiterminal [wikibooks.org] and run an instance of the game in each with Wine.
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4 Xnest servers + 4 copies of Quake 3. Job done. Windows is still living in the GUI stone age.
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I'd imagine such a thing would be such a giant ballache it'd cost far less in terms of time and money to simply hook up a console with four controllers. I suppose you'd also need four desks, unless people are supposed to try to balance and keyboard on their laps and a mouse on the cushions at their side.
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Only game niches where consoles beat PCs is local multiplayer games sitting in the couch
For people who routinely host play dates with visiting friends or relatives, that's a rawther important niche.
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World of Warcraft is the only MMO played in more than niche numbers, FPSes sell more on consoles than PCs, and the RTS is pretty much a dead genre. I'd say that's pretty niche.
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Informative)
You plug it in, turn it on, drop in the CD/DVD/cartridge and it works.
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install...
You evidently haven't used a console recently, I've experienced all of the above with mine.
Not to mention the fact that my 4 month old 360's DVD drive decided to die recently. Now I have to piss about with Microsoft getting the console replaced. If that takes 2-3 weeks, I've lost 2-3 weeks of gaming. It usually takes me on average 30 mins to install a pc game&patch (10 hours a year), and a day to get a new DVD drive, I can live with that.
As far as needing to buy new hardware for new games? I buy a new gaming PC every 4 years, Halfway through my third cycle. I have *Never* needed to buy hardware to play a new game (Excluding of course, the rise of 3D Graphics-Once). I've had to turn settings down a couple of times, but never to the point where poor graphics interfere with gameplay ( In COD4 multiplayer I used to keep all settings low out of preference, not need)
I Spend £500 every 4 years. Even if every PC game I bought was available on the consoles I'd spend WAY more on the extra cost of console games (20 Games a year average, £10 extra cost due to console tax is £800 extra, not including the cost of the console)
I Spend a LOT more money per console in the long run than I do on my gaming PC, despite playing about the same of games on all of them.
Consoles are good, So are PCs. Your arguments alas, are not.
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Even if every PC game I bought was available on the consoles I'd spend WAY more on the extra cost of console games (20 Games a year average, £10 extra cost due to console tax is £800 extra, not including the cost of the console)
But if you had two or three other people in the household, how much would you spend on extra copies of the game so that more than one person in the house can play at once?
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We don't, Single player games are installed and shared, and online games are purchased by all. Used to No-CD games for LAN but if its worth playing on a LAN, its likely worthy of online play.
Same as with a console, although there are a few games playable online with splitscreen, There aren't many that interest me (or AFAIK, in the first place, I enjoy Co-Op play, but consoles seem to be lacking recently)
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online games are purchased by all [...] if its worth playing on a LAN, its likely worthy of online play.
I imagine that you don't have anyone under 18 in the house. What PC-based multiplayer solution do you recommend for households with children under working age, or for family parties on holiday weekends where there is no available Internet access apart from 3G dongles?
Same as with a console, although there are a few games playable online with splitscreen
Not all multiplayer games require that the screen be split. Take Bomberman series and Super Smash Bros. series for examples.
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Interesting)
How many console games require a new graphic card, new processor, more memory, DirectX/drivers updates or OS upgrades?
The NES, Sega Genesis, Neo Geo, N64, and probably other consoles I can't remember have required memory upgrades to play certain games. The Dreamcast, PS2, Original XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3 have OS updates and game patches. I can't think of any console that offered a processor upgrade off the top of my head (the Jaguar maybe?).
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install.
Except the PS3 which requires large hard drive installs for many games. Or Last Remnant, which requires a hard drive install on the 360. I don't know about the giant patches you're talking about. You're probably talking about MMO client updates. There ARE no MMOs on the console except Final Fantasy XI which distributes such client updates on discs.
Only game niches where PC still keeps the crowd entertained with greater efficiency are RTS, FPS and MMORPG games.
The reality is more that genres change. PC gaming used to be dominated by point and click adventure games and flight sims. These genres didn't transition to the consoles, they faded in popularity. "Devil May Cry" style action-adventure games were big last generation, in this generation, not so much. And speaking of RPGs, console RPGs are widely incorporating elements from PC games, particularly MMOs (see FFXII) not the other way around.
Facts: PC game sales have been going up dramatically every year. Certain genres, and even certain games, have dominated PC gaming since it's inception. Those genres change over time.
People have been predicting the death of PC gaming since before it even started. It's not going to happen unless people stop using PCs or manufacturers refuse to make gaming hardware for PCs.
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Please cite examples. Of the systems you listed, I've played NES, Genesis, and N64. The N64 is the only one of the group that had the ability to have it's memory upgraded and only a few games required it - (Single Player)Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong 64, Majora's Mask, and (Muliplayer) Starcraft 64 are the ones that spring to mind.
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Parent is failing to differentiate between updates that were done to the systems by the manufacturer. This happens with games as well. But it's all done before the product is on the shelf, not after you take it home.
It was disingenuous of him to leave that bit out, but he's got the +5, so maybe I've experienced these things differently from everyone else. Yes, the newer systems are more PC-like with the inclusion of hard drives, and longer downloads and load-times. But those of us who didn't start out on th
Slight corrections (Score:2)
The NES, Sega Genesis, Neo Geo, N64, and probably other consoles I can't remember have required memory upgrades to play certain games. The Dreamcast, PS2, Original XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3 have OS updates and game patches. I can't think of any console that offered a processor upgrade off the top of my head (the Jaguar maybe?).
Sega Genesis had the Sega CD, which contained a processor faster than the one in the Genesis. It also had the 32X, which was about half as powerful as the Saturn. But all "memory upgrades" for the North American and European NES (that is, everything but the Japan-only Famicom Disk System) have been limited to memory chips inside the Game Pak, the same sorts of memory chips used for saved games in Sega Genesis and Super NES carts. And what kinds of user-installable OS updates are you talking about for Dreamc
You Are Full of Shit (Score:2)
When was the last time you played on a Console. Go ahead, tell us?
You can buy upgrades for the 360.
You can install games onto a console.
You have to patch a lot of games out on consoles these days because of bugs.
PC gaming isn't anymore expensive than the consoles when they're brand new, and when they're brand new, they tend to have more features than their second and third generation counter parts (and so on).
The only thing you might have is gameplay, but that's only because certain types of games don't
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You can buy upgrades for the 360.
You can install games onto a console.
But can I run indie games on a PS3 or Wii without exploiting bugs in the OS to get unsigned code to run?
PC gaming isn't anymore expensive than the consoles when they're brand new
How many PCs do you need for three people to play, and how many copies of each game? Now how many consoles and how many copies?
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You can buy upgrades for the 360.
You can install games onto a console.
But can I run indie games on a PS3 or Wii without exploiting bugs in the OS to get unsigned code to run?
Not sure what you're trying to get at here. You can install games from your disc onto some consoles now. Some games see performance improvements, some do not. No, maybe you can't run all indie games on your PS3 or Wii, but you may not be able to do that on your PC either.
PC gaming isn't anymore expensive than the consoles when they're brand new
How many PCs do you need for three people to play, and how many copies of each game? Now how many consoles and how many copies?
I think that's kind of irrelevant depending on what type of gamer you are. If you enjoy local multiplayer, sure, the console would probably be the way to go. I know a lot of people who have consoles that rarely use local multiplayer. I know
You must be at least this tall to develop (Score:2)
But can I run indie games on a PS3 or Wii without exploiting bugs in the OS to get unsigned code to run?
Not sure what you're trying to get at here. You can install games from your disc onto some consoles now. Some games see performance improvements, some do not. No, maybe you can't run all indie games on your PS3 or Wii, but you may not be able to do that on your PC either.
Say I wanted to run Tux Racer or Frozen Bubble or StepMania or Lockjaw on a Wii console. I couldn't even begin to port it because the console verifies the cryptographic digital signature of all software running on it, and Nintendo doesn't make signing keys available to developers below a certain size. This blocks 1. free software and 2. proprietary software developed by a microISV. But in order to grow, the microISV has to publish a first title somehow, and it would appear that the only platform available t
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Wii firmware updates are quick and painless compared to, say, Windows Update.
Of course, a system like Steam that takes care of updates, installs, DRM, etc, makes things much easier.
There is a fundamental difference between an open system (by which I mean, will run unsigned code) and one that ships neutered. The overall experience on the latter is more controlled, and can be much better. But you lose the freedom to do what you want with the hardware.
Is one or the other better for games? I think the better qu
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The joy of the WII controller is that it uses only infrared light, which to my knowledge, has never been shown to be harmful to humans.
The Wii uses bluetooth, which is basically radio. A bit like short range wifi. Infrared should actually be more harmful than bluetooth because it uses higher energy photons.