Worlds.com To Extend Virtual World Lawsuit To Second Life, WoW 106
FiveRings writes "BusinessInsider has a story about Worlds.com, a company that inherited the patent on virtual worlds from the Starlight Starbright Foundation and is taking it to court against NCSoft over the company's various MMOs. If successful, he will press on and sue the makers of Second Life and World of Warcraft as well. The article notes that the NCSoft case is being held in east Texas, which has been a favorable venue for patent trolls in the past."
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Maybe they'll string the Worlds.com people along, making them think their going to get what they want, and then, right at the end, present something completely different that they didn't want and laugh at them as they line up to do it again.
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Because everyone likes a good apocolypse fantasy for their favorite worlds, and being NULL terminated is just so damned boring.
Re:Anonymous Coward. (Score:5, Funny)
In the heart of the desert wasteland of Tek Saas, the foreboding fortress looms. Balanced for teams of 10 to 25 players, this raid offers dynamic legal battles, devious new patent challenges and exciting new loot!
Example Loot:
[Attaché Case of Litigation]
Off Hand Briefcase
Increases intellect by 52
Decreases social conscience by 22
"This case looks expensive"
[The Mighty Pen]
One Hand Dagger
Increases writer's strike by 28
On use: Wraps target in red tape, immobilizing them for 4 seconds.
"This pen is very sharp."
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[The Mighty Pen]
One Hand Dagger
Increases writer's strike by 28
On use: Wraps target in red tape, immobilizing them for 4 seconds.
"This pen is very sharp."
Looks like it's time to respec Combat Daggers again. That's better than any sword I've seen...
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That said I'm a prot warr by nature, just levelling a rogue because my warrior (who was rolled just after the first expansion purely to be a PvP character) got so thorougly screwed by Blizz that I need a new PvP character.
Heh. (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Heh. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to sue God because I came up with the concept of 4-dimensional space-time.
Yeah! And when he defends himself, he'll have to say how many dimensions their really are to show the patent doesn't apply. Trick God into verifying string theory!
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"Your honour, the defendant has failed to appear in court and there is no defense offered. I move to rule in favour of the Plaintiff."
"Granted. All of space-time up to the 4th dimension is granted to the Plaintiff, an 'Anonymous Coward'. Court adjourned.
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Unfortunately, God runs his organization like the mob, with his wiseguy Archangels who will burn your city to the ground if you piss him off.
Hmmm, maybe we should hope this troll sues God...
Fight fire with fire. (Score:5, Funny)
Someone needs to patent the patent troll business model and sue this guy for infringement.
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Patent Acquisition and Assertion (Score:5, Informative)
Already been done.
United States Patent Application - 20080270152 - October 30, 2008
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20080270152&OS=20080270152&RS=20080270152 [uspto.gov]
Patent Acquisition and Assertion by a (Non-Inventor) First Party Against a Second Party
Abstract
Methods for a first party to acquire and assert a patent property against a second party are disclosed. The methods include obtaining an equity interest in the patent property. The methods further include writing a claim within the scope of the patent property. The claim is written to cover a product of the second party where the product includes a secret aspect. The methods further include filing the claim with a patent office. The methods sometimes include offering a license of the patent property to the second party after the patent property issues as a patent with the claim. The methods sometimes include asserting infringement of the claim by the second party after the patent property issues as a patent with the claim. The methods sometimes include negotiating a cross-license with the second party based on the assertion of infringement of the claim, where under the cross-license the first party obtains a license to an intellectual property right from the second party. The methods sometime include attempting to obtain a monetary settlement from the second party based on the assertion of infringement of the claim.
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figures... Halliburton
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I think that Bilski [fsf.org] might have something to say about this patent. ... were this patent not (ahem) patently for entertainment only.
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Patent Trolls? (Score:1)
activeworlds (Score:2)
do these guys have anything at all to do with Ron Britvich? He could, conceivably, have some non-virtual ground to stand on.
800-pound level 80 Gorilla (Score:5, Funny)
Re:800-pound level 80 Gorilla (Score:5, Interesting)
Blizzard makes a few handy billion per year. I imagine they could front a defense that would make the SCO epic look like a parking infringement notice.
Honestly, I doubt it. There's a reason IBM's lawyers are typically known as the Nazgul, they've got a reputation as the most dangerous lawyers money can buy so if they couldn't end it sooner and bloodier for SCO, chances are nobody could have.
Add to that the fact that this is about patents instead of copyright, which are usually much more vague in their phrasing, and you'd see that *if* they do win against NCSoft, I believe Blizzard is in for some serious pain next. The US is obssessed over protecting the concept of "IP" as of late, and it shows on both laws and judgements.
Re:800-pound level 80 Gorilla (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, send in the Nazgul, then:
http://domino.watson.ibm.com/comm/pr.nsf/pages/news.20070416_virtualworlds.html [ibm.com]
IBM has many projects related to virtual worlds.
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SCO: We need all your paperwork.
IBM: You don't really mean that do you? *SMIRK*
SCO: Yes! ALL OF IT! ALL! ALL! ALL! MWAHAHAHA!
*BEEP!*BEEP!*BEEP!*BEEP!*
SCO: Uh, what are these semitrailers doing here?
IBM: Well, these ten are the first of 50 loads with all the paperwork.
SCO: Uhh...
IBM: And we'll be billing you for the time it took to compile, and the costs necessary to deliver it.
SCO: But...
IBM: Yes, we know you barely have enough to buy stuff on the value menu at Wendy's. The term used in Russia is "To
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SCO demanded (and got) their entire code repository and programmer notes for AIX and some other products going back to the dawn of time, and IBM strenuously objected as it meant thousands of lawyer- and coder-hours to detangle those repositories from others on the same system that they knew they were never going to see a dime for. Not one line of which appeared in SCO's final post-discovery complaint.
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I know. It was merely meant as a humorous illustration.
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Happy to be of service!
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I doubt it, firstly the life online thing is not assumable for games....as they would have you believe.
The patent is about living your life as you would in normal life, but in a world online shared through the internet.
How often during a day, do you stroll over the hill to that orc camp and kill a few orcs for yourself....or ride a raptor down to the sealine and then jump into the sea to the sunken ship and run into fishmen living under the sea that attack you, or even say run into a giant fel-reaver that i
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The Sims online would be closer to getting sued then WoW!
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Well, that's why I said *if* they win over NCSoft. More likely than not this will get thrown out as it deserves, perhaps after some small donations to NCSoft's legal team courtesy of Sony and Blizzard, but any argument that Blizzard could use for WoW NCSoft could use for Tabula Rasa or Guild Wars so if they lose I don't think it'll be as clear-cut for Blizzard as some people believe.
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That's why it's only if they win. A precedence would have been set.
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-- The Scottish Play
Home (Score:2)
He might want to press on and sue Blizzard for WoW, but I imagine both they and Sony will have plenty to say at this initial case. Hopefully when this fails it destroys Worlds.com in the process.
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The problem is that IP is like the One Ring. You can fight off one army of lawyers, but then many years later another picks it out of the battlefield and starts the cycle again. Like the One Ring IP always corrupts those who seek to use it. There's no "Mt. Doom" for IP to actually go to die.
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Hmm, a very apt analysis, except I disagree with '''There's no "Mt. Doom" for IP to actually go to die.'''
Very Clearly, Duke Nukem Forever has found its way to Mt. Doom. :p
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And actually, Mt. Doom could be personallized (?) as a time lapse after which the patent dies anyway.
Sigh (Score:1)
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I'd agree, the 2-D to 3-D transformation is pretty insignificant in the functionality of what actually goes on. In either case, heading and location of your avatar are passed from the client to the server. The server passes your information on to others, and others back to you.
All adding a dimension does is tact on a couple extra bytes to each transfer.
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All adding a dimension does is tact on a couple extra bytes to each transfer.
And conveniently allows the patent to ignore prior art that was 2D based.
It's like me patenting exactly the same thing but stipulating that it applies to virtual reality worlds that go beyond 3D reprentations of worlds on 2D monitors. Hmmm, maybe I should do it.
Lawsuit can continue only until some local wow (Score:2)
hardcores kick the brains outta the litigants and their attorneys in the first chance they get.
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They're still scheduling the raid. Remember to sign up! Plenty of DPS slots left, NCSoft will be main tank, still looking for heals.
Asking for it? (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL, but I can't see where rattling your saber at a couple of big dogs while suing the small fish isn't begging to have some timely amicus briefs filed by the opposition.
I'm pretty sure that's why the more successful patent trolls get a bunch of smaller cases on the books as precedent before going after the guys with real money.
Oh please, lemme dream... (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine this happening to WoW. Now, imagine Blizzard deciding to say "ok, we'll withdraw from the US market. Btw, dear folks who have been playing for 5+ years now and lose everything that's dear to you, THIS is the company that made us shut down. Maybe you find something creative to do with your life".
Who said mob rule has to be a bad thing?
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Somehow I doubt WoW addicts will have the suitable physical characteristics to run a successful mob.
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Hmm... I'd say every single one of them counts as a mob, by mass alone.
Prior art (Score:3, Informative)
SF (Score:2)
Tron 1982
A Dream of Wessex 1977
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Wasn't "True Names" in 1981?
Re:Prior art (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, the creator of MMOGchart.com doesn't consider Meridian 59 worthy of mentioning, but it was launched in September, 1996.
However, the problem is that the patent is an extension of a previous patent, number 6,219,045 [google.com], dated November 12, 1996. A proper defense would require that that you go after that patent as well, as I was told by lawyer I know. There's still prior art to be had, but it's not quite so easy to find it.
If you want to read more about the NCSoft lawsuit issues and patent problems relating to game development, I posted up about this a little while ago on my professional MMO development blog: http://www.psychochild.org/?p=540 [psychochild.org]
Have fun.
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There's still prior art to be had, but it's not quite so easy to find it.
Persistent virtual worlds have existed since the 70's. They had a snail mail interface.
Flying Buffalo [flyingbuffalo.com]
The first multi-player play-by-mail game (probably Starweb) may not be considered persistent (it had victory conditions, and games ended), but persistent games followed. I played a game called Empyrian Challenge in the early to mid 80's. It was a large-scale, persistent game.
Playing by email was a logical extension. Playing in realtime was a logical extension. Adding 3D graphics was a logical extension (pr
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How about this for prior art? [wikipedia.org]
The Shadow of Yserbius (Score:1)
Don't forget The Shadow of Yserbius which was on The Sierra Network/TSN. This was around in 1992.
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Here's some more appropriate prior art [gamasutra.com]. The article was published 20th Jan 2000 and the patent was not filed until August. I suspect that the patent was written after reading the article. The main claim of the patent is a "scalable" system because updates are not total. That is exactly what is described in that series of articles going back to the first one.
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MMO's where around a lot longer than the 1990's. I believe they reach back into the 1970's with text based MUD's. You can just look up Richard Bartle's [wikipedia.org] work history. He first worked on MUD1 in 1978, with MUD2 in 1980. And there was a strong case that EQ ripped off DikuMUD [wikipedia.org] which was launched in 1990.
Everything since the 1970's have just been some minor extensions of these concepts. They added some graphics, changed how the server structure worked, etc. But the 'prior art' idea of the whole thing has be
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The patent in question isn't dealing with MMO's in general, but MMO's that consist of 3D environments. That being said, there is still plenty of prior art to go around with this ridiculous patent.
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Look up "True Names" and "Neuromancer"
They're 10 years earlier than Snow Crash
3 AM........sound asleep.... (Score:5, Funny)
I thought I had stumbled into another gamer's nightmare (I have them often)....
Lead Attorney for the Plaintiff: Your Honor, I intend to prove that NCSoft has intentionally, and willfully, violated the....
Lead Attorney for NCSoft: FUCK YOU!!
Lead Attorney for the Plaintiff: Your Honor! I must strenuously object!
Your Honor: Fuck you!
It seems one man's nightmare can be another man's wetdream......
Prior art? Try 1991 (Score:3, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game) [wikipedia.org]
Neverwinter Nights, the first graphical MMORPG, had all the elements most modern ones have (though far cruder of course), ran from 1991 to 1997.
There are, of course MUD's far older than that which were persistent worlds.
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Neverwinter Nights, the first graphical MMORPG, had all the elements most modern ones have (though far cruder of course), ran from 1991 to 1997.
Except the ability to look up at the sky.
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Yes, MUDs are c.1986 or so. However, the patent in question specifies 3D graphics, so MUDs per se are not prior art. They should be...I mean, I am sure I am not the only one reading Slashdot who frittered away thousands of hours on Epic and Bigboy at the end of the 80s, and more than once thinking "I wonder if there's a way for this kind of game to have graphics?" That idea probably occurred to huge numbers of MUD nerds a huge numbe
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I'm glad they added the 2 largest. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
I like it when companies pursuing litigation of this sort try to attack the largest companies first. Know why? Small companies will often have to settle because they can't afford to fight the suit. Once you sue the two largest vendors, suddenly there is a whole lot of money behind the defense. With Blizzard now part of the lawsuit, I suspect Worlds.com is gonna get beat down in the court room. Even if they are not, it won't be just because the defendents didn't have enough money to mount a defense. If they
Google asshole? (Score:1)
This is from worlds.com news page..
May 19, 2008, the pioneer platform in 3D virtual communities announced today the appointment of a new non-executive board member; Thomas Duterme. Mr. Duterme is currently a New Business Development Manager who assesses new business opportunities at Google. Joining Worlds' board, it is expected that he will help to drive the expansion of the Company's pioneering patented 3D technology.
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Not only this but their company address is just some dudes house.. wtf..
Why are people investing in this shit? I'm sure this company is a fraud of some kind.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=11+Royal+Road+Brookline+02445+United+States%20(Worlds.com+Inc.) [google.com]
this crap (Score:1)
Very Broad Patent (Score:3, Insightful)
Reading their patent claims, they're patent is VERY broad and IMO pretty obvious.
It's basically saying that the client passes avatar location and heading to the server, and the server passes the info on all other nearby characters back to the clients. Thinking about the problem for a couple seconds, you should be able to determine that it MUST work this way.
Any MMO game with a central server pretty much has no option other to work this way.
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End software patents!
Fishing... (Score:1)
Popular Culture (Score:1)
Some of you don't realize how old Worlds.com is. (Score:2, Informative)
I remember participating in Worlds.com back in 1996. How many of your precious 3D MMO environments existed then?
http://web.archive.org/web/19961108105356/www.worlds.net/news/press_releases/press-101.html [archive.org]
I think many of you are reacting emotionally to any threat against your favorite current games. But please do a little research before the name calling. As much as I disagree with intellectua
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Holding the case in East Texas? Check.
Sat on the patent for at least five years? Check.
Suing over a patent that is obvious enough for multiple entities to independently and simultaneously develop? Check.
Testing the waters with the little guys first? Check.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Or in this case patent troll.
How much was your check for astroturfing?
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Holding the case in East Texas? Check.
So anyone suing over an alleged patent violation is automatically a "troll"?
Sat on the patent for at least five years? Check.
They were actively using and advancing the technology involved, I wouldn't call this "sitting on it".
Suing over a patent that is obvious enough for multiple entities to independently and simultaneously develop? Check.
I agree that most patents are bullshit for this reason. I don't know that this one is. It's easy to say after the fact, but the company doing the suing in the case is at least the first one I personally came across with the product described, making prior art a little harder to argue.
Testing the waters with the little guys first? Check.
I'll admit I don't know the legal history here,
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East Texas is patent troll central. If you need a judge that's going to side in favor of the troll, you get the case heard there. If it was a legit claim it would have been heard elsewhere.
They got the patent in 2000. The companies they are suing released their products years later. If they weren't a troll, they'd have brought it up as the projects were announced publicly or shortly after being released. Trolls wait until their victims have money and a reason to pay.
Why go after a game with ~200k subscriber
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Thanks for taking the time to explain. That's an interesting thing to know about Texas.
In regards to wikipedia and not keeping current with the most fashionable ad hominem attacks, I don't mind not representing the majority on slashdot. The general quality of the comments hasn't been increasing over the last 10 years. Most of the time I stick to the headlines and links.
Do all of your posts end with an attempted insult?
This scares me (Score:2)
As a hobbyist game developer, this pisses me off and scares the shit out of me at the same time. If I were to ever try to join a small indie game company, or start one of my own, I would feel like every little feature, concept, algorithm, or artwork I add to a game could infringe on some vague bullshit patent, even if I came up with the idea on my own. It's assholes like these that are subduing ideas and the chances of new companies to enter the market. Fuck them.
Of Course.. (Score:1)
isnt the patent invalid because of ultima online? (Score:1)