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Games Entertainment

Square Enix Facing Class Action Suit Over FFXI "Hidden Fees" 76

Posted by Soulskill from the maybe-read-the-box dept.
A class action lawsuit has been initiated against Square Enix over the fees they charge for subscription-based MMO Final Fantasy XI. The court filing alleges "deceptive advertising, unfair practices, and fraudulent concealment" of information about the game's pricing model, essentially saying Square Enix doesn't clearly advertise that there is a monthly fee, and that failure to pay can result in late fees and account termination. The plaintiff is seeking a settlement in excess of $5,000,000 and including "all persons who purchased or played the online games four years prior to the filing of this lawsuit."
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Square Enix Facing Class Action Suit Over FFXI "Hidden Fees" More

Square Enix Facing Class Action Suit Over FFXI "Hidden Fees"

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  • late fees? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lehk228 ( 705449 ) on Friday June 26, 2009 @11:09PM (#28490999) Journal
    monthy charges make sense but late fees!? it's an MMO not a utility so it's not like they can't suspend your service if you don't pay.

  • From TFA: (Score:5, Informative)

    by Myji Humoz ( 1535565 ) on Friday June 26, 2009 @11:09PM (#28491001)

    The complaints are:
    1. Licensing of the online games software disguised as a sale
    2. Monthly fees ("fees") to play online games
    3. Penalties for late payment fees
    4. Interest charges for late payment fees
    5. Charges while the online game account is suspended
    6. Termination of the right to use the online game for late payment of the fees
    7. User restrictions and conditions related to the online games
    8. Termination of game data for late payment of the fees

    Lets see...
    1) Normal for mmos
    2) Normal for mmos
    3) Sounds like a credit card company
    4) Sounds like a credit card company
    5) Sounds like a scam company
    6) Hello, if you don't pay for something, are you shocked that they cut it off?
    7) Their game, their rules
    8) Their game, their rules

    All in all, this set of complaints seems to boil down to: "your billing department is confusing."

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Morlark ( 814687 )

      Yeah, I was going to say something similar, but you've pretty much nailed it. FFXI may have some dumb policies, but they're up-front about it. Some of the complaints this lawsuit makes are just plain stupid though. What a waste of the court system's time.

      • I think complaint #5 has traction...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by SB5 ( 165464 )

          #5 does, think about a "Members Only" club, lets say you get a little too drunk, and end up getting tossed out and banned for a week... Do you still have to pay your monthly dues or membership fees?

          • I don't think the analogy is very good. MMO subscriptions are a service, not a membership, and if you see what people were getting suspended for (with reviews that would take weeks, and then sometimes end in account termination, and other times end in nothing) - without any real participatory process - it is a real problem.

        • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I've played ffxi, and the way it works is that your bill is paid for monthly at the start of a month. If you stop paying (as in remove your credit card info) you can still use your account until the end of the current month assuming it had already been paid for. If you are banned from the game you do not get a refund for the current month (so if you get banned on day 2, you lose 28 days of paid playtime) however they don't charge you anymore after that. And finally if you are suspended (max: 72hours) it doe

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mabhatter654 ( 561290 )

      That's the first I've heard of such credit-card like terms.

      Blizzard is very cool with the subscriptions. I used to buy the cards for the longest time and they counted exactly 30 days every time. When you enter a new key card you get the whole 30 more days from whatever day you enter it....

      I've had to turn off the subscription fees (and not play the game) a few times as well, and they just stop it and start it when you pay... they don't do stupid crap like late fees or interest on a pay-per-time account.

      The

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by SL Baur ( 19540 )

        These people deserve to be sued. You don't have a contract to keep paying on a timed account.

        While most of the items listed in the suit are bogus, interest payments and late payments certainly do sound suspicious.

        I'm rather surprised this is coming from Square Enix. *Everything* I've purchased from them has been of fairly high quality and worth the money. It's not like they produce buggy games (hello Konami!), or games that crash when you do something that you have to do to complete the game (hello EA!).

        Blizzard is very cool with the subscriptions.

        Yeah. It's dead simple - you pay, you play; you don't pay, you don't play. You want to stop

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by iCEBaLM ( 34905 )

        S-E doesn't do late fees or interest either, I've played FFXI for years on and off. Those two complaints sounds like the plaintiff is mistaking their credit card company for S-E.

    • Most mmo's you pay at the start of the month, FFIX you pay at the end. If I don't pay my bill to Blizzard - they just shut off my account and end of story. My character is still there, and when I want to play again I can buy more time no questions asked. I know this is the same way CCP bills customers too.

      From what I understand If I don't pay my FFIX account they bill me anyhow, and it eventually send it off to collections and it goes against your credit record. Oh and they delete your character (I've never

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by SL Baur ( 19540 )

        From what I understand If I don't pay my FFIX account they bill me anyhow, and it eventually send it off to collections and it goes against your credit record. Oh and they delete your character

        Citation please. That is idiotic policy if true.

        For a company that makes truly *good* games[1], I just can't believe it.

        [1] My experience with Square Enix doesn't go beyond handhelds.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Unoti ( 731964 )

      5. Charges while the online game account is suspended

      #5 sounds like Sprint. I had a cell phone with Sprint. I started traveling for a few months full time for my job, left my cell phone at home (lost it actually) and was too busy to cancel my Sprint account or replace the phone. I stopped paying the bill, and 6 months later Sprint is telling me I owe them like a thousand dollars, even though I never touched the phone, and even though they had terminated my account a months before. It went into collecti

      • You should probably do some research into how cell phones work if you're actually surprised here. This is 100% what I would expect from a cell phone company.

        A lot of people keep phones that they never use just in case of emergency, so Sprint keeps their service active and the customer keeps paying for that. They have no way of knowing if you're one of those people or someone who "can't be bothered" to call and cancel your service that you KNEW was automatically renewing. Sounds like your fuck up, not the

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by binkzz ( 779594 )
      To be honest, Your debunks 1 & 2 don't hold any merit for me.

      Just because others do it didn't get me any slack in kindergarten, I don't see why it should for companies.

      3 & 4 sound horrible, but not particularly illegal. They would convince me not to play the game, even though I pretty much always pay on time.

      5 is outrageous I think.

      6. Sounds reasonable

      7. I don't know what the the restrictions and conditions are. That it's their game, doesn't mean they can legally put in any condition or re

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by bentcd ( 690786 )

        To be honest, Your debunks 1 & 2 don't hold any merit for me.

        Just because others do it didn't get me any slack in kindergarten, I don't see why it should for companies.

        3 & 4 sound horrible, but not particularly illegal. They would convince me not to play the game, even though I pretty much always pay on time.

        I would say that if it is indeed the case that these policies are hidden from the customer then 1-4 are probably outright fraudulent. I have no idea how well such a claim may hold up though.

        In Norway there are some companies that advertise ring tones, cell phone themes and such at about $5 a piece (or so you may think). You send them an SMS, they send you the stuff back, and your cell phone bill is docked the charge. Except what you may not realize when you are placing the order is that you have /actually/

  • Some insight. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 26, 2009 @11:29PM (#28491083)

    I've played this game since NA release and I've always known there is a monthly fee. I've never felt that it was hidden from me either.
    It's clearly stated that if your account is inactive for 3 months, your character is deleted. This is a stupid argument... It clearly states
    when signing up for the initial content ID that it costs $12.95 per month and you have to agree TWICE to purchase it. Every single content
    ID after that you have to AGREE and then CONFIRM that you will be billed an extra $1 per month. This person's pissed because he didn't
    want to pay for a game he was playing and then got penalized for basically stealing from the company providing the services.

    • I've played this game since NA release and I've always known there is a monthly fee. I've never felt that it was hidden from me either.

      I bought the game after release as well, and then decided to never play it because of the monthly fee (dumb purchase, but I was young and naive and apparently unable to read the box).

      Check, please!

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Nazlfrag ( 1035012 )

        Your cheque is waiting at the returns counter where you purchased the game. Also, the boxed game comes with the first month of gameplay free, so you could have played it for a little while at least. If you've never registered the game online you can ebay it. This class action lawsuit is a farce.

        • This is a silly statement I have yet to see an MMO you can even log on to with out first giving them credit card info. Its like a 30 day free trial cancel or we charge you set up. Children likely do this all the time and MMOs are in general non refundable in most game stores because the only thing in them is the one time use license number and if its been used up and resold then the retailer is scamming the second customer. The root poster here for Some insight is missing the point. If you never missed a

    • What other MMORG charges AFTER you stop paying? That's the issue. Most games operate on gamecards as well as subscriptions. If you miss adding the new card on time, you get turned off.. no hard feelings... When you pay up your new card starts THAT DAY.. no some pro-rated, late fee crap. That's what's new here.

      In other words the game is $15 per month but if you take a month off by stopping payments... you STILL PAY for the month off you didn't pay for to get turned back on. That's nasty as you don't sign an

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Cabriel ( 803429 )

        What other MMORG charges AFTER you stop paying?

        Everquest. Sony charged my sister (who provided her credit card for me to use. Such a nice sister) for several months before she realized she was paying for three accounts instead of two (her and her husband). I definitely cancelled my account the day I stopped playing, but that didn't stop Sony from continuing the charges.

        I realize you were trying for a rhetorical question, but I have a contradictory experience.

        • that's a recurring charge... you still have to tell them to stop taking the money. They don't know you stopped PLAYING. This is about you Choosing not to pay and being assessed a late fee for staring back up again.

          It sounds like the FF guys are charging you late fees if for some reason you don't renew your payment schedule on time. This would like paying with the WoW time cards and taking 2 months off by not buying one. Then having to pay extra to "make up" time you choose not to pay for even though they tu

    • I bought this game, played the freebie month + 1 month, had to let my account lapse due to having a busy life and at one point thought about starting it up again. What I didn't realize was I would have to buy another boxed copy to get a new code, since I had let mine go for too long.

      citation provided [qcdn.org]

      Not standard practice for an MMO and not listed on the box. Where do I get my check?

      • Re:Some insight. (Score:4, Informative)

        by TriezGamer ( 861238 ) on Saturday June 27, 2009 @04:59AM (#28493051)

        Bullshit. They will delete your characters for inactivity (happened to me 3 times), but they leave your PlayOnline ID intact, and that's what the game is registered to. While you might have to start over, you are not required to buy a new copy of the game as long as you remember your POL ID and password.

        I know this from personal experience, having bounced back and forth between FFXI and several other games ever since FFXI's launch, and having been inactive for over a year in a stretch. If you were required to buy a new copy of the game, it's because you were perma-banned for a TOS violation.

        • I am pretty sure that if you delete your PlayOnline ID you won't be able to use the code on your game again, and would have to buy a new boxed copy. It's not unreasonable to think that aztektum might of done this accidentally when he canceled his subscription. At least that how it was when I played the game when it first was released in North America.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SL Baur ( 19540 )

      I've played this game since NA release and I've always known there is a monthly fee.

      There surely HAS to be something on the front of the box. For example, I'm looking at the WotLK box and it has on the bottom left side: "Requires full versions of World of Warcraft and The Burning Crusade to play." And on the bottom right side: "Internet connection required, additional online fees apply".

      I cannot possibly believe Square Enix kept something like monthly fees a secret.

      when signing up for the initial content ID that it costs $12.95 per month

      Not bad. Cheaper than WoW unless you go for the 6 month-at-a-time plan.

      This person's pissed because he didn't want to pay for a game he was playing and then got penalized for basically stealing from the company providing the services.

      I think the problem may be in the rules. I've onl

  • I am not willing to pay for a game that I must pay in perpituity to play. I will pay for a game ONCE. Only Once.

    MMOs are scams in this respect. You don't have a single player mode. You can't NOT play the game on line. (I would have Bought WoW had there been a way to either:

    1. Play a single player RPG not on line.
    2. Play on Servers that are not owned by Blizzard on independant networks/LAN.

    • Good thing Blizzard doesn't make people play...

      Yes MMO's encourage you to play with other people - its kinda fun (at least I think its kinda fun). Sounds like you didn't have fun and now have an axe to grind.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SL Baur ( 19540 )

      I am not willing to pay for a game that I must pay in perpituity to play. I will pay for a game ONCE. Only Once.

      More power to you. Why do you sound so threatened at something tens of millions of us find fascinating if it has no personal interest to you?

  • I would say they have more of a case with FFIV+ (Score:4, Informative)

    by nebaz ( 453974 ) on Saturday June 27, 2009 @12:21AM (#28491349)

    They just released a Wii Channel game called Final Fantasy IV The After Years. It is 800 Wii Points, but what they don't tell you is that that is for "part 1". Parts 2-X (however many) are additionally 300 points and 800 for the final piece. They don't tell you that up front. Anyone who knows anything about FF knows XI is an online, MMO. That's why it is the one I avoided.

    • While I'm inclined to agree the episodic format should be in the More Details, you do get this exact message when you try to buy it:

      Wii Points are required to access portions of the additional content or services associated with this game.

      The above should be an adequate warning for the potential buyer to go do some homework before committing to the purchase -- the add-on details are described in the manual, with a diagram. And the Shopping Guide tells you that the manual is freely available to read, also with a diagram.

  • Oh people... (Score:3, Funny)

    by girlintraining ( 1395911 ) on Saturday June 27, 2009 @01:27AM (#28491903)

    You bought it before you went to the save point. Now you'll have to lose several days of your life to restore from an earlier copy. You've played these games enough -- you should know better than to buy something new from the store where the stats aren't on the screen before saving. Jeez, hasn't gaming taught you anything???

  • Horrible billing (Score:5, Informative)

    by Squarewav ( 241189 ) on Saturday June 27, 2009 @02:02AM (#28492123)

    I played FFXI for 3 years on and off. The lawsuit is probably about the horrible way they do billing if you cancel and resubscribe.

    Billing (at least for me) was always on the first of the month.

    If you canceled on the 20th of January, and decide to resubscribe the 23rd of March you wouldn't actually be billed until the 1st of April at which point they charge you for a full month of March and for the month of April despite only using it for 8 days of March.

    In other words they don't prorate. It's a really archaic way of handling a MMO subscription. I'm not sure if this is listed in the ToS if it's not then there might be grounds for a lawsuit. $5M is still way to excessive for what should be in small claims court for $30

    • $5m would be excessive, if it was for single person. This is a Class Action lawsuit, and 'all players for the past 4 years' are the plaintiffs. Therefore any award or settlement would end up paid out mostly to the laywers, and all of those players might get a dollar each.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ukyoCE ( 106879 )

      Thanks for the post, pretty informative.

      It sounds like the real issue here is that they DID disable your service, but continued to charge, perhaps even for the month after you canceled. Particularly if you let your subscription lapse rather than manually canceling, they would keep both disable your service (cant play) AND keep charging you for service. HUH?

      I used to work for a company that ran as a half-pre-paid service and half always-on-utility. Sounds just like this awful Final Fantasy billing method.

  • All I have to say is just be glad your game was not shut down. Be glad you have lived out other games. Yet I am sorry for those that suffer.

  • This may also be an aspect of the really odd way in which the billing system is set up, in which it is actively confusing as to how you cancel your subscription. Some people have made the mistake, in the past, of thinking that by canceling their character IDs, they cancel billing (under the reasoning that if you're being charged for individual characters already). In reality, billing is halted by canceling payments associated with the player's ID of the game itself.

    This is further compounded by the fact t

    • "Crisis Core" was handled in just about the same way when I downloaded it on my cell phone a few years ago. There's a 500 yen monthly charge, which they're totally up front about, but stopping the charges are another matter.

      The first i-mode mobile phone game I ever played was a Tetris clone that cost 150 yen per month, and the first time you loaded the application in a given month, the game would inform you of that fact, and that a new 150-yen charge would appear on your bill. You had the chance to say ye

      • Well that pretty much rules out me ever subscribing to anything by squeenix. Is the weird billing a Japanese thing?

        • I don't think it's a Japanese thing so much as it's a "corporations squeezing money out of people whenever they can" thing, though it does seem like there's a bit more of this in Japan. I've had friends try to cancel telephone service because they're leaving the country, and the mobile phone company will tell them that certain papers have to be signed and returned by registered mail, etc., and they they'll take a week or so to get the papers to the customer, squeezing another week of unneeded service out o

  • I've played FFXI for about 5 years and am currently involved in a conflict with S-E. It relates to the following point: 5. Charges while the online game account is suspended This is relevant for those people whose account got hacked as well. My character got hacked, it did some things that S-E charges money for (a so-called world transfer, $25) and I got it returned after about a month. But to this date however, S-E has never refunded me the charges that weren't made by me, even though they said they would

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