New AI Challenge Is All About Wanton Destruction 45
togelius writes "Previous years have seen a number of car racing competitions where neural nets, rule-based systems and other fancy AI techniques have been put to the test by letting them drive on a track and seeing who gets the best lap time. Recognizing that finding the Michael Schumacher of AI is not enough, a team of researchers from University of Wuerzburg now wants to find the Mad Max of AI. Their new competition is called 'Demolition Derby' and the goal is to 'wreck all opponent cars by crashing into them without getting wrecked yourself.' For this, they use the open-source TORCS game and a custom AI interface, allowing all and any AI researchers and enthusiasts (including you!) to submit their best and most aggressive controllers." (There's a competition for conventional racing, too; competitors can enter either or both.)
Mad Max meets Skynet (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, it would be more entertaining than 90% of the current reality show lineups. ...or it could be an even more vapid clone of Mythbusters sans the science. I'd mention said vapid clones but luckily, I've forgotten what they were called.
Re: (Score:2)
"more entertaining than 90% of the current reality show lineups"
You seem to presume that reality shows have any entertainment value. I would differ with you. Sitting on the floor, hitting myself in the head with a hammer might be more entertaining than the few reality shows that I've seen. Maybe I'll try it soon, and let you know.
Re: (Score:2)
You seem to presume that reality shows have any entertainment value.
It has a name: schadenfreude.
Waiting for the DARPA version (Score:4, Interesting)
With real vehicles!
Re: (Score:1)
Absolutely!
I know exactly who would be the first entrant as well
www.srl.org
What a fantastic idea for a television show as well.
The world should be exposed to the world of Mark Pauline + AI. Imagine Pauline with a television budget to work with.
This could make the Terminator movies look like Mr Rodgers Neighborhood.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you want explosions or test AIs? Computer games can provide the perfect measuring environment: you control exactly what data they have, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you want explosions
Nope. Competitors in DARPA autonomous driving tests are not encouraged to explode. See here:
http://www.darpa.mil/grandchallenge/index.asp [darpa.mil]
Computer games can provide the perfect measuring environment: you control exactly what data they have, etc.
Simulations are all good, but look at the massive difference between them and reality. Sure you can control what data they get, but it's rarely as complex and variable as real-world.
Throw in AI that can get anywhere close to working with that 'real-world' data, plus trying to race around a circuit against agressive oppositoin, and that would be impressive.
Re: (Score:2)
Rise of the Machine (Score:3, Interesting)
Gotta develop the appropriate durability if they're gonna be dealing with whatever I.E.D.s that the People of the Resistance will be able to use.
Can't you see? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This is the beginning of the end.
Not from Skynet's point of view. They've just been patiently waiting for some human to be foolish enough to open this door. I think we all know where it goes from here ...
That's not a real AI killer robot demolition car! (Score:2)
Homer Simpson is inside, secretly behind the wheel!
Re:That's not a real AI killer robot demolition ca (Score:2)
No Wall Smashing (Score:1)
it says that cars don't take damage from colliding with walls. That means you can't run a car against a wall to smash it. But it is so fun!
Also, those cars have very strong fronts, because they don't take damage from there too.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, those cars have very strong fronts, because they don't take damage from there too.
They're made of black boxes from old airplanes.
The rules are pure idiocy (Score:4, Insightful)
All of these rules are the opposite of how actual demolition derbies work. Smashing a car into the wall causes large amounts of damage. Damage to the front (the radiator, engine etc) is way more effective than damage than the rear. Most cars are driven backwards because the trunk is just a big crumple zone. As long as it doesn't get the wheels or axle, damage in the rear doesn't really matter.
OK, they need to call it something else now. It's not a demolition derby anymore. There's no floating wrenches that repair all damage in real life either.
Re:The rules are pure idiocy (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the goal is not so much about creating an accurate demolition derby simulator, so much as it is about creating a suitable challenge to improve artificial intelligence? ... you know, like how chess is a terribly unrealistic war simulator, while still being useful in training strategical thinking.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The damage resetting rule is the only one I see as obviously beneficial when competing algorithms.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it would be more interesting if they kept it closer to actual demo derbies but maybe they're just taking it one step at a time.
Things like... there's no teams but they can still communicate and decide to take out a competitor who's doing better than them or they trick others into doing the damage by pushing cars in the way instead of trying to smash 'em on their own.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps the goal is not so much about creating an accurate demolition derby simulator, so much as it is about creating a suitable challenge to improve artificial intelligence? ... you know, like how chess is a terribly unrealistic war simulator, while still being useful in training strategical thinking.
This is /. and a story involving simulated cars. I believe a car analogy would have been more apt than a chess analogy (and perhaps even required).
Re: (Score:2)
But why arbitrarily make it backwards? Make damage to the rear count way less than damage to the front. There's no reason to reverse it.
And why not count wall damage? Immovable solid object damage should be easier to model than moving deformable one. If it really is even modeled, otherwise a simple damage based on speed and angle of impact would suffice.
The strategies learned would be unique to these rules, which effectively provide video game shields to the cars. For instance, a car backed into the wall
Re: (Score:2)
Game AI in general also strikes me as a dead end. I recently read a book on the subject that emphasized how
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Like all racing, winning is in working the rules, not making the fastest or most effective vehicle - the fastest and the best are quickly barred from competition.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or by assuming that 'front' and 'back' are reversed in the simulation?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> All of these rules are the opposite of how actual demolition derbies work. Smashing a car into the wall causes large amounts of damage. Damage to the front (the radiator, engine etc) is way more effective than damage than the rear.
Complete speculation but maybe it really isn't a demolition derby at all but something approaching what some envision for real driving in the future.
Imagine a driving environment where because there are sensors on the side of road that automatically communicate with all ca
Sam and Max hit the road (Score:3, Funny)
Max: Does it involve wanton destruction?
Sam: We can only hope.
it was the commissioner (Score:1)
...with another idiotic and baffling assignment.
Quoth Joshua 8:28 (Score:2)
From the holy book: So Joshua burned Ai and made it a permanent heap of ruins, a desolate place to this day.
Is AI just seeking revenge?
Last man standing... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We could just call it the Camper's Dilemma? :P
Re: (Score:2)
train the final AI to sit on the sidelines until only one other opponent is left. The final problem, of course, is what happens if everyone does this.
That's actually not a bad strategy to attempt, if you've tried http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_derby [wikipedia.org]
(If you have not, get out of the basement NOW and try before you die...It's MUCH less expensive than many other forms of motor racing, and great fun.)
You need to minimise damage in order to win, following the old adage of "to finish first, first you have to finish".
However, and this is the real thing about AI and 'mimicking a human' , as soon as you start to look to be in a good, (undamaged, fast) con
Since when are wantons such a problem? (Score:1)