Valve Faces Lawsuit Over Video Game Gambling (bloomberg.com) 73
An anonymous reader writes from a report via Bloomberg: Valve's Counterstrike: Global Offensive game is being sued for its role in the multibillion-dollar gambling economy that has fueled the game's popularity. Michael John McLeod filed a lawsuit Thursday in the U.S. District Court in Connecticut alleging that Valve violated gambling laws and engaged in racketeering with a handful of off-shore gambling companies. McLeod, who has been gambling on CS:GO since 2014, is asking for class-action status for the suit. The suit was first reported by Polygon and doesn't give a specific request for damages, nor does it say how much money he lost by betting on the site. According to Bloomberg: "Valve provided for money, technical support, and advice to such websites as CSGO Lounge and Diamonds, which take bets, and OPSkins, which runs a market where virtual goods are traded and can be redeemed for cash." Valve has yet to respond to the suit.
Re:WHy dont we sue ice (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't this basically the same as suing winter because people gamble on hockey
Not really. Valve has been on a lot of people's radar already for how some of its F2P marketplaces are operating. (Team Fortress, DOTA, and CS:GO in particular.)
http://wccftech.com/problem-un... [wccftech.com]
A 2nd part of the issue is that the major Casino's are unregulated, allow minors to play, (and accusations that its rigged by its owners etc.) So these sites are operating illegally; and quite probably corrupt.
There's a reasonable argument to bad that Valve has an obligation to prevent such sites from tying into its APIs etc.
There is also a reasonable argument to be made that Valve is endorsing it by allowing such things as this:
For example:
CS:GO Lounge
"A community based around the trading of CS:GO items "
"trading" lulz... right, "trading"... the discussion has a nice forum post pinned for everyone:
Bets: the all-in-one guide
http://steamcommunity.com/grou... [steamcommunity.com]
or this, a "hey kids, if you got scammed its on you" and then signs off with safe betting.
http://steamcommunity.com/grou... [steamcommunity.com]
This isn't on some 3rd party site. This is right on the steam forums, in a Steam Group. You can arguably suggest that its not steams problem to stop 3rd parties from betting... but this stuff is right on Steam. They probably do need to take some ownership of the issue if they are letting it make itself that comfortable right on steam itself.
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It's not just accusations of rigging, it's outright proof. In late 2014/early 2015, there was a site called Sweetstakes (which is still up) that was meant for TF2 gambling. The way it worked is that people put their items into a "pool", with higher valued items giving people a higher chance to win. The problem was that there was one guy with tens of thousands of dollars in items and a bunch of stooges who would hand this guy their items so that he had a higher chance of winning (on the promise that he'd pay
Dota (Score:1)
Yeah, and to be frank I've been pretty surprised to see where DOTA is going lately. They have an active "betting" system where you can bet on games, which is heavily advertised with casino-esque characters. Yes, betting doesn't directly involve money, but the tradeable items and background mechanics with such *do*.
I'm surprised nobody at Valve went "erm, are we sure this is legal"
(or maybe they did and don't give a f***)
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IIRC, compendium stuff is tradeable, just not immediately (usually after the season).
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News at 11.
No kidding! LOL
Please protect us from ourselves, Big Brother! (Score:5, Insightful)
Once again someone is petitioning the government to protect them from themselves. Listen, dumbass. You're the one who made the bets, if you won I doubt you would be filing a suit. But since you're a loser, and will always be a loser, I guess it's time for you to ask the nanny state to go after that evil company that hosted a game where your in-game experience mirrored your real life - you being really overconfident but lacking any skills to back up your hubris.
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Well, it depends...
Were the sites operated in compliance with gambling laws? Were there audits to ensure that the system wasn't rigged unfairly (apart from the inherent and well-known house advantage)? Were all transactions accounted for and recorded properly?
There are a lot of regulations that make gambling a mostly-fair enterprise. Yes, you're still likely to lose, but it's entertaining to play and sometimes win. It's not entertaining to play and never have a chance of winning, and that would put the site
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The USA claims jurisdiction if I sell drugs to a US citizen, even though it is legally allowed here. There is no reason why the Dutch judiciary could not claim jurisdiction over Valve in this matter. Especially since they sell the game to Dutch citizens knowingly, tying into a paying system that is tied to Dutch banks (IDEAL).
Funny enough, I had a very similar conversation last year with a friend of mine who is a lawyer and he was wondering why Valve got away with selling a game that includes gambling as a
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Re: Please protect us from ourselves, Big Brother! (Score:2)
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Gambling is not a basic part of the game, it's done entirely through third-party websites.
Gambling is a basic part of the game: you need to buy keys and they open a box with random contents. If I open a box with a Dragon Lore AWP skin, I may be able to sell it on the community market for $800 dollar, which after paying a commission to Valve is deposited straight in my Steam account by Valve, which I can then turn into $800 dollars in my paypal account by visiting a site they support. It's gambling for real money and they know they're dealing with kids doing the gambling.
And if your kid is buying CS:GO skins then you're part of the same group of parents that complain when their children spend $1000 on farmville; it's your own fault for giving them credit card info.
I don't complain about th
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Gambling is a basic part of the game: you need to buy keys and they open a box with random contents. If I open a box with a Dragon Lore AWP skin, I may be able to sell it on the community market for $800 dollar, which after paying a commission to Valve is deposited straight in my Steam account by Valve, which I can then turn into $800 dollars in my paypal account by visiting a site they support. It's gambling for real money and they know they're dealing with kids doing the gambling.
I think you're mistaking the meaning of "basic".
You can absolutely play CSGO for years, try all of it's game modes and NEVER have to use a damn skin or open a box. In fact lots of people do.
Just because a minority of players decide to waste ridiculous amounts of time and money in a side aspect of the game doesn't make that aspect "basic" at all.
Also, please explain to me how are pokemon and many other card games not forbidden to kids, since to you they fill the definition of gambling.
P.S.: 99%
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and OPSkins, which runs a market where virtual goods are traded and can be redeemed for cash.
If this works like a kind of off-site market board or auction house from an MMO, I assume sites like eBay also make sure to comply with gambling laws?
There is a point at which you really have to tell people to take a hint of personal responsibility.
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Valve runs a game where you buy keys to boxes for 5 dollar or more. The box can give you a skin that is worth up to a 1000 dollar in cash. And the sites where you can convert it into cash are supported by Valve.
This is nothing like eBay or an auction house. The point is that I have to buy tickets in order to have a chance at a nice payout. It's a lottery, and Valve made the very serious error of supporting sites that convert in-game items into real cash. Suddenly, we're talking tax evasion, running a lotter
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What gives you the idea that Valve supports these sites?
My bad, I didn't realize that the article had made this claim. They don't provide any evidence for this though, and I've been unable to find any myself. The closest thing I could find is this quote from the original polygon article, which says that:
The lawsuit filed on behalf of Connecticut resident Michael John McLeod alleges that Valve and third-party sites (CSGO Diamonds, CSGO Lounge and OPSkins) "knowingly allowed, supported, and/or sponsored illegal gambling by allowing millions of Americans to link their individual Steam accounts to third- party websites."
This is really what it all comes down to, and he's basically complaining that Valve allows them to use their API to let users login to their steam account on a third-party site. This is less "Valve supporting them" and more "Valve not stopping them."
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The funny bit is claiming Valve supported the gambling sites with money. It's a ridiculous assertion he has no evidence for and that didn't happen.
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Wait. didn't this guy just officially tell the courts he was breaking the law gambling illegally? Why isn't he in jail already?
This is an easy one. (Score:1)
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CSGO hit its peak and is on its way out (Score:4, Informative)
The 3 top Twitch streamers have quit streaming the game. Twitch has 3 to 4 Esport companies CSGO tournaments a week. Twitch also has its own weekly CSGO turny which the finalist play on TBS every weekend. CSGO is over exposed and will die soon just like Starcraft before it. If you have skins sell out now at the top of the market. No more skin gambling and it is all over.
http://www.e-league.com/news/2... [e-league.com]
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You mean 1.6 or Source. CSGO really only blew up to what it is now after skin betting.
https://csgolounge.com/ [csgolounge.com]
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I've heard that in CS 1.6. And in CS:S. True both times, for that specific version :) And now I'll return to a casual round of CS:GO. With the rest of the millions of players.
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I play a lot of CS:GO, and somewhat follow the esports scene. In my experience, the competitive community is largely separate from the Twitch community. Every time I've gone to Twitch to check for interesting CS:GO streams, the top streams were all gambling and or Russian. Twitch recently added a rule that streaming gambling for more than 30 minutes [reddit.com] will result in a ban for non-gaming content; that's probably why the 3 top streamers have left. It has nothing to do with actual Counterstrike. Additionally, I'
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By viewers Summit, TimTheTatMan and JoshOG. Phantomlord really only gambles and does giveaways. https://twitter.com/PhantomL0r... [twitter.com]
Re: CSGO hit its peak and is on its way out (Score:1)
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Starcraft overexposed? When did that happen?
About 2 years ago. Tournaments EVERY weekend with the SAME players playing each other. Week after week after week after week. The big Esports groups just milk the hell out of the hottest game and run sport into the ground. Until everyone is sick of the game. This is happening right now with CSGO. ESEA, FACEIT, ESL, ECS, E League and more than that. The same 10 or so teams playing each other OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER 5 to 6 days a week.
Yes, it's gambling. Just like fantasy sports. (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'd say it depends more on the size of the players.
In this case, many of them are kids.
Um....no. (Score:2)
As for gambling, it's well known that the "house" ha
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There's a big difference. If you trade derivatives, you are betting with other people's money.
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Money Laundering, too (Score:2)
Don't forget all of the $400 items on the Steam CS:GO Marketplace. You know, the ones that normally sell for $0.83, but then suddenly spike momentarily to the maximum of $400 for an item?
Either there are some incredibly stupid millionaires out there, or, more likely, this is one step in any number of money-laundering schemes.
Tell me how I am wrong here.
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humm... how would that work? i have tons of dirty money, buy a item for $400, then what? sell it for $1 ? even if i sell it for $200, how do i get my money back? steam do not give you real money back... maybe i could buy some games and sell the account? you still have to explain where did that $200 come from, of i sell 2000 accounts, that would be VERY hard to explain.
Stupid and rich kids and greedy people, i do believe, money laundering i do not see it
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As Higuita indicated, they sell the $400 item to themselves on another account. Then, they can buy some expensive item or game and resell it on third-party sites like g2a or opskins, where users buy steam items for real money. This can be done with stolen credit cards as well as for money laundering, although Valve has made that a lot more difficult recently with trade restrictions and 2FA.
True enough about the 2-factor authentication. And also the waiting period sometimes imposed before selling a newly acquired item.
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In the early days: because the Bible says it's bad. These days: it's not outright illegal, but it's highly regulated, as it should be given the long history of scamming by gambling houses. Plus, many states want their state lottery to be the only legal betting: no one else gets to milk the gambling addicts.
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The bible doesn't say anything about gambling at all. Zip. Empty.
It does restrict the charging of interest on a loan though. It's OT law, and it only applies between believers (Originally Jews, later reinterpreted to include Christians before being abandoned). Charging interest to a nonbeliever is still ok.