The Geometry of Islamic Art Becomes a Treasure of a Game (arstechnica.com) 213
Sam Machkovech from Ars Technica reviews the game Engare, describing it as a "clever, deceptively simple, and beautiful rumination on geometry and Islamic art-making traditions." The game consists of relatively simple puzzles and a freeform art toy that unlocks its puzzles' tools to allow you to make whatever patterns you please. From the report: The game, made almost entirely by 23-year-old Iranian developer Mahdi Bahrami, starts with a 2D scene of a circle repeatedly traveling along a line. Above this, an instructional card shows a curved-diagonal line. Drop a dot on the moving circle, the game says, and it will generate a bold line, like ink on a page. As the ball (and thus, your dot) rolls, the inked line unfurls; if you put the dot on a different part of the circle, then your inked line may have more curve or angle to it, based on the total motion of the moving, rotating circle. Your object is to recreate this exact curved-diagonal line. If your first ink-drop doesn't do the trick, try again. Each puzzle presents an increasingly complex array of moving and rotating shapes, lines, and dots. You have to watch the repeating patterns and rotations in a particular puzzle to understand where to drop an ink dot and draw the demanded line. At first, you'll have to recreate simple turns, curves, and zig-zags. By the end, you'll be making insane curlicues and rug-like super-patterns.
But even this jaded math wiz-kid couldn't help but drop his jaw, loose his tongue, and bulge his eyes at the first time Engare cracked open its math-rich heart. One early puzzle (shown above) ended with its seemingly simple pattern repeating over and over and over and over. Unlike other puzzles, this pattern kept drawing itself, even after I'd fulfilled a simple line-and-turn pattern. And with each pass of the drawing pattern, driven by a spinning, central circle, Engare drew and filled a new, bright color. This is what the game's creator is trying to shout, I thought. This is his unique, cultural perspective. This looks like the Persian rugs he saw his grandmother weave as a child.
But even this jaded math wiz-kid couldn't help but drop his jaw, loose his tongue, and bulge his eyes at the first time Engare cracked open its math-rich heart. One early puzzle (shown above) ended with its seemingly simple pattern repeating over and over and over and over. Unlike other puzzles, this pattern kept drawing itself, even after I'd fulfilled a simple line-and-turn pattern. And with each pass of the drawing pattern, driven by a spinning, central circle, Engare drew and filled a new, bright color. This is what the game's creator is trying to shout, I thought. This is his unique, cultural perspective. This looks like the Persian rugs he saw his grandmother weave as a child.
How much is "ISlamic" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:5, Funny)
So Microsoft didn't even invent "embrace, extend, extinguish"?
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:5, Insightful)
How much is "Islamic" and how much is stolen from cultures that they have destroyed? For example "islamic" arches can clearly be seen in pre-islamic [wikipedia.org] Persia. You will fins that most things that Muslims claim to have invented turn out to be "we destroyed this library but copied this bit"
For one thing, according to some interpretations of the Koran Islam does not allow it's followers to create images of living creatures which has led to a lot of artistic energy and creativity being poured into geometric artwork and the mathematics of geometry. Secondly, the pre-Islamic cultures you cite (Persia in this case) are the same cultures that contributed to the development of geometric art after they converted to Islam. There was no destruction of cultures to speak of, just a change of religion and a change of management much like there was when the Roman empire disintegrated in Europe. Germanic kings took over from Roman administrators and people largely welcomed them despite their occasional brutality because as a general rule they did a better job of defending the population than corrupt and incompetent Roman governors had and the new rulers for the most part just took over the existing Roman institutions and ran them more efficiently and with much less corruption rather than laying waste to everything in their path. The same applies to the Islamic conquest of the orient in many cases. As for stealing from cultures you destroyed, odds are you are either an American, and Americans destroyed thousands of cultures in order to steal a continent from hem or a Brit who did the same to build an empire so please try not to throw stones, you live in a glass house.
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:4, Informative)
There was no destruction of cultures to speak of, just a change of religion
I don't know about the Middle East but in Europe, the "just a change of religion" was definitely a destruction of (pre-Christian) cultures. I'd be very surprised if Islam, spreading at the same time, were any different.
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Islam spread 500-1000 years later.
But you are right, Mohamed 'artificially designed' his religion with the explicit goal to convert, conquer or destroy as many pagan tribes around his home regions as possible.
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Islam was founded around 500 (I guess one could look up the correct date), so depending on region, they spread the same time. But considering the geographical center of each "movement" islam was 500 years after christianity. ... which probably intersected but did not overlap ... to lazy to check :D
Then again you could count the various waves
So: you are Nordic then, or from far east Europe?
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So, in a topic talking about Islam and it's artistic cultural heritage (which does include destruction and theft as you even say) you turn it around to "what about these other cultures!". Bravo. Whataboutism in full force I see.
none of these countries are in any position to criticise the Islamic conquest without answering some very embarrassing questions about their own past.
Why? The topic is about Islam. The past of Islam and how it has influenced the art and culture is the topic. Why can no one mention the reality of what "change in religion" means in that time without feeling your shame and condescension?
By your standard everyone lives in a glass hous
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:4, Insightful)
Why? The topic is about Islam. The past of Islam and how it has influenced the art and culture is the topic. Why can no one mention the reality of what "change in religion" means in that time without feeling your shame and condescension?
By your standard everyone lives in a glass house because the past is horrible compared to today. Does that mean no one can talk of any culture or any past transgression unless it's their own culture? What happens if those in that culture refuse to critizise their past, I guess that means it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, and "just a change in religion" means nothing more than a friendly door knock like this. [youtube.com]
If I remember correctly, the topic of this thread was Islamic geometric art. It was you and your xenophobic alt-right buddies who turned it into some mystic ceremony where you all gather in a circle and hate Islam. Dragging the Islamic conquest into a discussion about Islamic art is about as relevant as dragging the massacre at Wounded Knee war into a discussion about the art of Jackson Pollock. All I did was burn you alt-right drones for going on a pretty stupid xenophobic tangent from a harmless discussion on geometric art in computer games. Just because some random mundane thing is in your mind 'Islamic', like geometric art or falafel recipes that doesn't mean you have some sort of god given right to bother the rest of us by dragging your asinine xenophobic political agenda into it without getting a dissenting opinion.
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You sure are quick to name calling. Without shaming and condescension you really don't have much an argument. Let's recap to make sure we both remember correctly.
1) Article about Geometry in Islamic art turned game.
2) post lamenting if it is Islamic if it was stolen during conquest.
3) your whataboutism.
4) my contention of your whataboutism and your shaming and your condescension.
5) you continue shame and condescension.
You put Islam on a pedestal beyond reproach and claim others are the bigots for pointing o
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dRrumpft is fat, orange, and stupid. He didn't earn his university entrance nor his degree, those were bought by his dad. He is also a terrible businessman and that is why he doesn't want to show his tax returns. He's embarrassed about them, same as his wife is embarrassed to be seen in public with the orangutan occupying the WH.
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k.
troll harder next time.
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I was just dropping to your level of argument quality. However, unlike you, I made patently true statements.
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kek. power to ya even if delusional.
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I accept your delusional "power to ya"
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You sure are quick to name calling. Without shaming and condescension you really don't have much an argument. Let's recap to make sure we both remember correctly.
1) Article about Geometry in Islamic art turned game. 2) post lamenting if it is Islamic if it was stolen during conquest. 3) your whataboutism. 4) my contention of your whataboutism and your shaming and your condescension. 5) you continue shame and condescension.
You put Islam on a pedestal beyond reproach and claim others are the bigots for pointing out history. When it is you who use shame, condescension and hate to shut others out. Did it ever occur to you that "how" Islamic art came to be could matter in a conversation about Islamic art? Do you think the early influences (whether by conquest or not) is relevant? If not then art history should never be studied again. Do those early cultures get any credit to influencing Islamic art? Or are you going to white wash history so you don't have to question a religion that is beyond criticism? After-all, unless you are islamic then you cannot criticize islam according to your ridiculous glass house standard.
Here is a thought, so what if the art was from conquest? How is that different than any other culture?... See, no whataboutism, it derrides the point of OP without shame or condescension, it treats islam as equals to other cultures, and it actually allows for those early influences to be relevant to a conversation about art (you know, art history). Others have responded to OP this way and they are not getting the same ridicule as you.
You suck at conversation. You limit discussion. You contribute more to hatred and bigotry than anything OP said or implied. You are a hate-filled bigot. Get over yourself.
A pedestal beyond reproach? I just questioned how the hell one gets from a discussion about Islamic geometric art in computer games to a xenophobic sermon about the universal evil that you boys consider Islam to be. Every damn time two people on the internet start talking about anything even remotely connected to Islam or the cultures practicing that religion (such as a race-politically loaded and dangerous discussion about Islamic geometric art) one of you alt-right drones sees him/herself duty bound to ma
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xenophobic sermon
Hyperbole much? Pointing out history is not xenophobic.
one of you alt-right
What have I said that is even remotely alt-right? What did op say that was alt-right? I don't eve think you know what xenophobia or alt-right is if you think anything I have written are those things.
some grand debate about bad things that people practicing Islam did at some point in history and they try to tar all moslems with the same brush
How did OP or I tar all Muslims with the same brush as historical Muslims? Islam has done and still does bad things. Do you get on the same mouth frothing rant when someone says "Christians were bad in the past"?
ow it is essential to turn a harmless discussion of Islamic geometric art
What is the history of that art? Does it inclu
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What is the history of that art? Does it include the conquest of cultures that had an early influence on the geometric art? You are arbitrarily limiting the discussion because you seem uncomfortable acknowledging history. Many "harmless" discussions end up dragging up the past for whatever reason, do you have the same mouth foaming reaction or do you think Islam should be treated differently?
If the conquered culture influenced the art in question then it is relevant. I hope you have the same fervent defense of religion when it isn't islam.
So by that same logic because European crusader armies destroyed Islamic civilisations in Spain and the Levant, stole from then the technology that enabled Europeans to smelt high quality steel in large quantities, knowledge that later enabled the Industrial revolution, it is fair and indeed quite essential to turn any discussion of steel working into a discussion on the dangers of Christianity and the atrocities committed by Christians during the Crusades? ... or does your logic only apply to Islam?
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, it is fair and indeed quite essential to turn any discussion of steel working into a discussion on the dangers of Christianity and the atrocities committed by Christians during the Crusades?
Depends on context of the discussion but for the most part it's fair but nothing is ever essential (I never argued it was essential).
Frankly, if we wanted to compare the two discussions it would be:
1) Article describing European steel work and art in a game
2) lamenting on whether it is European if early metallurgy/steel work was stolen during the crusades
I think that is perfectly fair and valid. However, if there was an article describing steel working processes for European industrial needs then lamenting
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So because some random people somewhere else did something bad, you get a free pass to do evil things.
Cool story, Ahmed. Don't you have some gays to kill or something?
This story was originally about Islamic geometric art in a computer game. It wasn't me who took that discussion onto a totally different tangent and turned it into a flamewar aimed at proving that Islam is somehow more inherently violent, evil and vile than all other cultures. That honour belongs completely to you and your bigoted xenophobic friends. You might as well have turned a discussions about the pros and cons of Toyota Land Cruisers into a discussion about on Japanese military's conduct during WWII.
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I thought it was christianity with all their missions and religious education.
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:5, Interesting)
So... like every other civilisation, then?
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How much is "Islamic" and how much is stolen from cultures that they have destroyed? For example "islamic" arches can clearly be seen in pre-islamic [wikipedia.org] Persia. You will fins that most things that Muslims claim to have invented turn out to be "we destroyed this library but copied this bit"
We can say the same with almost every other culture. What's the point here?
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The warlord that killed all the first-born son's in Egypt? The one that destroyed the cities of Soddom and Gomorah because they partied hard? The one that promises eternal fires and damnation to those who in a few decades on earth don't make the fortuitous decision to follow jesus? Yeah, that's a pretty twisted religion.
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In Islam representation of the human figure is forbidden, so art in that culture has been geometric from the beginning. Instead of centuries of variations on portraiture and scenes containing people, it has been centuries of geometric design.
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Well, the same thing is forbidden in Judaism and in some branches of Christianism. But Islamic geometric arts are way more developed than either.
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That and your parent is actually incorrect.
Islam and judaism forbids depicting of god, not of humans.
However some branches argue, that god created man in his image, and hence depicting of humans is prohibited, too.
However there is plenty of islamic art that actually does depict humans.
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Looks like Ars Technica is now a front for jihadists, either that or their ignorant dupes. You'd think a technically focused team wouldn't fall for this obviously religious indoctrination. Shows just how insidious this stuff is. Interesting that they posted the story under the name "Machkovech" -- vaguly jewish sounding. False flag? This guy is embedded deep, too (long writing history of articles there, none of them overtly Muslim). I guess more likely just identity theft. Someone should let this schmuck kn
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You forgot your sarcasm, or j/k tag. I hope.
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Ever use the number zero? How about Algebra? The "Al" prefix and the Arabic word "Al" aren't coincidences.
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"Ever use the number zero? How about Algebra? The "Al" prefix and the Arabic word "Al" aren't coincidences."
You should have mentioned Alcohol, chances are greater that he used that one, compared to Algebra.
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Ever lynch people? Ever give infected blankets to inconvenient native groups?
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Yeah, if it weren't for those damn arabs and them bringing the hindu-arabic numbering system out West we could still be using Roman numerals to not do mathematics very well.
Fucking savages.
"Destruction" vs. "Assimilation" (Score:2)
During the peak of growth of Islam, there wasn't an "islamic culture" per se, there was a set of rules, a phylosophy. As it grew (by the means of military or cultural conquests), it *absorbed* and assimilated a lot of what was there before them. Islamic countries became the beacon of development of the world during the dark ages, not because science sprang out in a void,but because they conquered the cultural capitals of the South and East of the Mediterranean. Baghdad, Alexandria, Damascus, Córdoba, a
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Islamic is the stamp westerners give it.
Arabs or Persians would simply call it: arabic art and persian art.
Re:How much is "ISlamic" (Score:5, Informative)
Errmm...you are referring to Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, northern sub-Saharan Africa, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, India (still has a lot even after the division),...I'm sure there are more. And get this, they don't get squat from the Muslim oil producers, it seems the Muslim oil producers are very good at keeping their money close to home. Now they do fund a bit of proselytizing, but then so do the Christians. In the U.S., that seems to have spawned a Christianity devoid of Christ and the principles he espoused. Apparently, it is only for white people.
oil (Score:2)
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They were a darn site better at drawing lines than you are at placing commas.
I thought Slashdot was for nerds and geeks (Score:5, Insightful)
An interesting geometrical application -yet what do the first 9 comments focus on? the word "Islamic". As I understand it (and I'm not a Muslim) creation of images is frowned upon (from the Jewish old testament commandment about graven images) so a lot of Islamic art is based on calligraphy and patterns (incl. some geometrically interesting tessellations).
Slashdot used to be a good site for technically minded people - over the past year or two it's degenerated into yet another cesspool of bigotry and hatred - whether it be based on religion, women, gun control, Brexit or US politics.
Save your bile for Facebook, Twitter and other similar sites and let Slashdot return to its roots in its anniversary year
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Oblig. xkcd [xkcd.com]..
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'Islamic' is absolutely not irrelevant.
It perfectly describes about what patterns we are talking here.
You could call it arabic or persian though, but then the majourity of readers would need to guess about what you are talking.
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BEHOLD God's majesty of creation! IDIC indeed. (Score:2)
Did you know that there's a direct correlation between the decline of Spirograph and the rise in gang activity?
Think about it
Infinite diversity in infinite combination.
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That is wrong.
I suggest to google. You would find e.g. http://www.visual-arts-cork.co... [visual-arts-cork.com]
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You are an idiot if you can't even acknowledge the genuine developments of Islamic culture.
AC left out deadly mass riots over cartoons, and the targeted killing of cartoonists; another fine development unique to Islamic culture. Let's not also forget the modern-day state executions for witchcraft which is carried out in the bastion of Islamic culture that is Saudi Arabia. Did you know they also have a city where it is a criminal act to enter it if you are not muslim?
Indeed, such developments are worthy of note.
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What about dance and music? Or is that not art? ... nevertheless everywhere where they ruled, you would call them nazi oppressors, not christian oppressors.
Islamic culture/ruling was not ever oppressive. And it is not in our days. Only a few countries are affected.
The Nazis were basically christians
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Muslim countries, of course, have dance and music, but those are national or regional art forms, not Islamic art forms.
With the same argument you could argue there are no Christian art forms except "painting" Bibles.
Islam is inherently and expressly totalitarian; read the Quran.
Lol, which part you mean?
Christianity itself makes a strong distinction between church and state
No it does not. That is a modern invention.
I don't know of any predominantly Muslim country that is not "affected" by the totalitarian n
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Religion is based on bigotry. It abhors the Other. I used to think Buddhism was different, then I saw what it did to the Rohingya. Do we hear a peep out of the non-Burmese Buddhists? Nope, not even the Dalai Lama can be arsed to speak up about these atrocities.
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You forget to mention that the Rohingya are muslims. And the natives in south asia are scared to hell by the 'slow islamic invasion'. ... but if you want to talk about religions then don't take it one wayed.
I'm not saying it is justified
Btw: Myanmar is ruled by a military junta. That has probably much more to do with the expelling of the Rohingya than religion.
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Slashdot used to be a good site for technically minded people - over the past year or two it's degenerated into yet another cesspool of bigotry and hatred - whether it be based on religion, women, gun control, Brexit or US politics.
You`re right, Slashdot has become bigoted. People like you refuse to tolerate other people's opinion.
Such much bigotry in the quoted sentence.
*sigh*. At least learn what the word bigot means if you're going to try to use it. The problem is that Slashdot articles have increasingly focused on things like politics, religion or gender, not that comments have become more "bigoted" as you put it. The bigotry comes from the side that says "any post that disagrees with me is Hate Speech".
Look, we can say the wa
Re: I thought Slashdot was for nerds and geeks (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever check what the Christian Right has in store for America? It is not much different than what Islam would like to do to America.
Christians and Muslims are fine, until they become overwhelming majorities. Then they turn into authoritarian dicks.
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Ever check what the Christian Right has in store for America? It is not much different than what Islam would like to do to America.
Christians and Muslims are fine, until they become overwhelming majorities. Then they turn into authoritarian dicks.
Ah yes the Christian right boogeyman. Way worse than an America full of illegal non-English speaking types waving other countries flags. Far worse than Antifa beating anyone they suspect of being wrong in their eyes. And the horrors of only two bathrooms ... how would one ever live under such oppression? Far better that we shout down anyone who disagrees with our benevolent view and prevent them from even speaking lest anyone believe their blasphemy.
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Do non-english speaking "types" have the majority in both houses of congress and the presidency? Does antifa have so much as a single seat in any state legislature? Who's the one talking about marginal boogeymen, and who's talking about a group that has near-total control of government?
I live in California. The inmates I mock very much run the asylum. So while you fear Christians being authoritarian dicks I get to see daily just what liberals do in that position. I see the hypocrisy of saying that you support mass immigration then going to pricey neighborhoods that only have illegals around for lawn and housekeeping. I see people complain about the high cost of housing but not being bright enough to figure out that letting in another few million will only hurt that. Same argument app
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Ever check what the Christian Right has in store for America? It is not much different than what Islam would like to do to America.
Christians and Muslims are fine, until they become overwhelming majorities. Then they turn into authoritarian dicks.
I think it's been a long time since Christians stoned someone to death for blasphemy. Meanwhile, there are multiple muslim communities that still practice it. They don't even hide it, it's documented in their penal codes!
I wouldn't assume someone is either muslim or christian. I'm pretty sure that there more options, including atheism. So defending muslims by comparing them to the "Christian Right" is like saying Shaytan is no worse than Satan.
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It is actually not very hard to be "not blasphemic".
I'm an atheist. I feel absolutely no urge to mock other peoples religions or blaspheme their priests, temples, religions etc.
Either you have respect for humans or not, if you 'believe' you have respect, then respect their religions, too.
Then you can ignore the penal code, as you never are covered by it.
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Awesome (Score:5, Insightful)
I haven't seen such a fun pattern-based game since some of the early mandelbrot fractal generators. Cool concept and execution.
Spirograph (Score:3)
The game's introduction reminded me of that.
Re:Spirograph (Score:4, Insightful)
definitely, except more complex patterns that spirograph was capable of. The real-time flexibility of adjusting the patterns (and the apparent ability to morph into 3-d projections) are really neat.
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Yep, remember LOGO too? ;)
Cool geometry game (Score:4, Interesting)
My son asked me to get Geometry Dash for him on his iPad. "Cool," I thought, "he wants a geometry game."
Such a disappointment. The game has no geometry whatsoever, and I have to hear the same annoying pounding electronic music repeated endlessly whenever we drive anywhere.
This is the game that Geometry Dash should have been.
Spirograph? (Score:2)
I haven't tried the game yet but the description sounds a lot like the Spirograph.
Other good geometry games (Score:2)
Other good puzzle games include:
* Pythagorea, iOS [apple.com], Android [google.com]
* Pythagorea 60 iOS [apple.com], Android [google.com]
* The Witness [steampowered.com]
* The Talos Principle [steampowered.com]
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Re:Just say no to Engare (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just say no to Engare (Score:5, Insightful)
More to the point, it's basically a digital spirograph (remember those? :) ). Which, the question it raises to me is... why did it take so long before someone thought to make a digital spirograph?
Re:Just say no to Engare (Score:4, Informative)
why did it take so long before someone thought to make a digital spirograph?
What exactly took so long? [amazon.com]
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Or a simple flash one...
https://www.mathplayground.com... [mathplayground.com]
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Indeed, you can study mathematics without any religion. You don't even need a silly game for it. Just read a nice math book, and learn some simple geometric programming. I think it's much more fun anyway.
The game is about more than only mathematics. It also explains the art and culture of these particular geometric figures. And yes, culture here includes an Islamic component. Just like a book about Japanese brush painting would quite likely refer to Zen Buddhism.
Of course, 'silly' and 'fun' is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I would say that this particular subject lends itself to interaction and hence a computer game. The great news is that you're not required to buy the game.
Re: Just say no to Engare (Score:4, Informative)
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The game is about more than only mathematics. It also explains the art and culture of these particular geometric figures. And yes, culture here includes an Islamic component. Just like a book about Japanese brush painting would quite likely refer to Zen Buddhism.
That's not a very good analogy, though. Math is universal in nature, brush painting isn't. If you were an ancient Mayan, for example, you'd be much more likely to independently reinvent a non-random class geometric figures than Zen-Buddhist brush painting.
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The game looks about as Islamic as Tetris looks Soviet.
Re:Just say no to Engare (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, that's like saying we should ban the color red because that's the color of commies and if we keep looking at red we'll at one day think that Communism is a fine idea.
We're talking an art style here. Frankly, if you think an art style is going to influence your children, please take them to a museum, you might end up with better kids.
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Whoa, you used the R* word! Tell me about your communist sympathies.
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Whoa, you used the R* word! Tell me about your communist sympathies.
Never go full red?
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lol, communist confirmed.
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"Dude, that's like saying we should ban the color red because that's the color of commies and if we keep looking at red we'll at one day think that Communism is a fine idea."
Ahem, we can't ever use a red baseball cap again, and it's not the commies' fault.
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If it doesn't influence people, is it really an art style? Discuss...
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Well, kinda. You have lots of adults who enjoy it and lots of bored kids that were taken along and start wandering off. I just did what any sane person would do.
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Wow, you definitely won the "retard of the day" award.
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This seems like a way to introduce people to Islamic art, and by extension, to Islam...
This is the same 'logic' used by those liberals who think that saying "Merry Christmas" will influence people to enslave women and torture heretics.
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Modern day America?
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In the renaissance.
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Not to mention the crusades, the Iberian reconquista and the fall of the ottoman empire.
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So ... the US pumped massive amounts of top notch military hardware into the Shah regime in Persia to make it the fourth largest army on this planet, then hired that Ayatollah guy to kick the Shah out and install a sharia regime? Then hired that Saddam guy living next door to start a war against them to destroy all that nice military hardware?
Y...eah. That makes lots of sense.
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The Soviets, not the US, invaded Afghanistan in 1979 following a communist-led coup that spiraled out of control. [wikipedia.org] Things were pretty nasty before the US got involved. Try to keep some perspective.
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