Bernie Sanders Supports Video Game Workers Unions (venturebeat.com) 323
U.S. Senator and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders has taken to Twitter to announce his support for video game workers unions. "In his message, Sanders gives shout-outs to IATSE (the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees) and Game Workers Unite, two organizations that have been working to help game creators organize," reports VentureBeat. "He also links to a June 11 Time story about the epidemic of worker burn out occurring in the industry." From the report: Video games make a ton of money, including $43 billion in revenue in 2018 in the U.S. (as Sanders also points out). But the people making games are often overworked and suspect to "crunch," mandatory (and sometimes unpaid) overtime. Recently, stories of unhealthy crunch cultures have surrounded giant game makers like Rockstar and Electronic Arts. Other employees suffer mass layoffs, like at Activision Blizzard earlier this year, even when their companies are big or even record profits. Some studios shut down completely.
It's actually a sector that could use this, good. (Score:3, Interesting)
Video game houses are notorious sweatshops. It's kind of insane that they operate the way they do in 2019, 120 hour weeks, people sleeping under desks trying to crank builds out... this is a sector that could benefit from union regs.
Bigly. Bernie Sanders with the not-so-pie-in-sky basic shit idea, keep em coming.
Re:It's actually a sector that could use this, goo (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason is quite simple. The "money making" part of IT industry is business software. It's mind numbingly boring, and no one (except maybe Ballmer) is passionate about it but it's good stable income with stable work hours.
Video games are an industry of passion. People who go in it are passionate about it, and are more than willing to handle the lower salaries and longer work hours in the name of making what they're passionate about. If they weren't, they'd go into business software for more money and less hours.
I suspect the current drive is mostly about all of the "get women and minorities into the industry because equity", which lead to people not passionate about the industry getting in, and then being shocked by the fact that they were expected to work like this was their passion rather than just another workplace doing boring stuff. It's unlikely to end well, because with the rise of education in Asian states and them embracing video game culture, all that likely will happen is that gaming companies will terminate studios in countries where worker protections prevent the insane work pace at which people who are passionate about their work do it.
Re: It's actually a sector that could use this, go (Score:2)
"worker protections prevent the insane work pace"
There is no reason whatsoever to imagine that death march hours and other abusive labor practices lead to higher productive output.
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Except of course for the fact that companies that don't do that aren't competitive.
What other evidence were you looking for other than results?
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Have you ever heard of a game series called Grand Theft Auto? I think it would qualify as successful. It's developed in a country where it's illegal to have working weeks longer than 48 hours.
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Quite possible. That would suggest that more flexible reward structures are needed to maintain motivation, rather than mandated reduction of work hours.
Re:It's actually a sector that could use this, goo (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's an industry that exploits passion. Video game companies know there are people passionate about video games. They're lined up down the street. Enough so that if you leave, they'll have a replacement body occupying your chair before it's cooled down.
It's a matter of supply and demand - video game companies know there are plenty of people who "want to work on video games", so they know they don't have to offer much, and can push them until they literally drop dead. And once that happens, so sad, here's the new guy replacing him. If you don't like it and quit, same deal - don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
The few in the video game industry who "make it" are designers and such who get celebrity status. The rest are just cogs in the machine.
Hell, it's apparently a common industry practice to only credit employees who are still there when a game ships, and not everyone who actually worked on a game, but left before it shipped.
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Hell, it's apparently a common industry practice to only credit employees who are still there when a game ships, and not everyone who actually worked on a game, but left before it shipped.
It is indeed common practice. I worked on a shipped game for over a year that's still live online today. My name is not in the credits.
The only reason there's a drive to get women in (Score:2)
And video games are just like music. The people who can do it do it obsessively. So the suits can take advantage of that. Go look up Courtney Love's writings about h
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Google "pareto principle" and be forever silent.
Who am I kidding. You're part of that 20% of slashdot users that is responsible for 80% of trolling.
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Spoken like the true bottom feeder that you are.
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"This sounds like [absurd comparison]" is a common propaganda tool to pretend that something that in no way was even implied was actually said.
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Easily agreed that market is driven by both supply and demand and if you don't correct this by breaking the market principles, nothing will change. Because reality is, there are plenty of passionate people with which other passionate people have to compete in games industry. There's nothing to "fix" here. There are plenty of indies that work much harder than "crunch" people at larger studios, and some of them are wildly successful. And like in anything else, most are not.
That is why I note that if you are a
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Developers! Developers! Developers!
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Unionization is a half-assed way to secure worker's rights. Doing it piecemeal for every individual industry is a pathetic waste of time and effort. Why don't ALL workers get these kind of protections? What the fuck is this, China? And what year is it? We've known that workers need protection from abuse for ages, why are we still making each kind of worker beg and suffer and fight for rights?
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Workers already have all the rights they need. The strongest of which is their feet. Don't like your job? Get a better one.
What color is the sky on your planet?
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If you can't get a better job, maybe you don't deserve one.
So, brown, then?
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You could say the same about the NBA I guess. Those are voluntary -- people go there not because they can't make money any other way but because they can't help doing it. Unions are for people who have no other choice to put bread on the table.
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Re:It's actually a sector that could use this, goo (Score:4, Interesting)
>Unions typically lead to higher paying jobs and better working conditions
This is the 20/80 rule in action. 20% of all workers do 80% of work, and remaining 80% of workers do remaining 20% of work. Unions typically lead to higher median pay and working conditions for that bottom 80% of workers.
Basic math: what happens to 20% in this scenario? Exactly. Their productivity and salary progression is curtailed. That's why they tend to be against unions, unless unions specifically limit themselves in this regard and actually go against the interests of the 80% when needed, which is hard because unions tend to select their leadership by a democratic vote, which means that less productive 80% vote in people who represent their interests against the interest of the more productive 20%.
And so, higher paying jobs and better working conditions fof 80% result. Which is why only fairly successful industries can manage it, because if you're in actually tough competition, it's the top 20% that are critical part of the workforce, not the bottom 80%.
P.S. I'm very pro-union, which is why this problem needs to be addressed so that entirety of workers can be optimally served by unions, rather than just the bottom 80%.
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In other news, 80% of the people think they are in the top 20%. Thus unions never get off the ground.
But that's okay, Eventually the video game industry will have such a bad rep that even the naive college grads will avoid them. Now they might try outsourcing it, but interestingly, the video game programming is probably one of the few jobs that can't be done cheaper overseas. People living in the third-world care much more about pay, so they're not going to settle for below market rates just because it's ma
Re:It's actually a sector that could use this, goo (Score:4, Insightful)
>the video game programming is probably one of the few jobs that can't be done cheaper overseas.
First I ever heard of this. Some of the best games I played in recent years weren't done in US or Western Europe or Japan. For example Witcher 3 (Poland), Metro Exodus (Ukraine), WoWS (Russia), ARMA 3 (Czechia) Kingdom Come: Deliverance (Czechia) recent Total War Rome 2 expansions (Bulgaria).
And if you think a software developer in Czechia or Bulgaria costs the same as one in US, I have land on the moon to sell you. I've recently seen at least three local software companies either open offices in Sofia or just wholesale move the company to Bulgaria, because their software dev salaries are something like 1/10th of what you'd have to pay a dev here in Finland. Savings by moving to Chechia are less, cutting salary costs to something like 30% of what it's here. And our salaries are turn about 1/2-2/3 of what it pays to work the same job in Germany.
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It is as a matter of general principle. Most productive people tend to rise to the top of organisations that aren't utterly corrupt by things like nepotism. Minor corruption is normal and tends to cause the skewing like one you mentioned, but does not impede the general principle.
Problem is, you can't even this out easily. Frankly if you had a product/service that could do this, you would make Bezos look like a homeless bum in comparison. If you could pull even 10% of general improvement in performance amon
Re:Luckyo = 100% lying faggot making shit up from (Score:4, Funny)
I do like how you are here to prove my point by demonstrating that 20% of all slashdot users are responsible for 80% of mindless trolling.
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Iâ(TM)m all for this! (Score:2)
Re:Iâ(TM)m all for this! (Score:4, Funny)
Bernie Sanders Supports (Score:2)
Just my 2 cents
Feel the Bern (Score:2)
This man can do no wrong.
Populism... (Score:3)
Passionate and interchangeable (Score:2)
Also the skill level to program modern games is very low. It's a fixed environment. Most game programmers aren't fighting drivers, inventing new algorithms, etc. They are using a game engine to draw clothes, to fill in story lines, get icons to appear in the right place. Plus an army of testers. There are a few people who work on the guts of the en
I Don't Believe It Can Be Done (Score:2)
I don't believe unionization will work for most companies doing software development. There are no universal certifications, and there are plenty of people in the profession without degrees. More importantly, the gap between an average developer and a great one is very large indeed. In general, both parties would recognize the disparity. The great programmer would look at the normalized "union pay" and know they are undervalued relative to others. In the absence of the ability to pay well for talent, the co
The first sentence says it all (Score:2)
"Video games make a ton of money" That's what it's all about folks. It's not about better working conditions. Programmers don't give a crap about keeping regular hours. It's about siphoning off money from that part of the economy to go into the pockets of people who have no talent other than making other people's live unnecessarily complicated.
Of course Sanders supports unions! (Score:2)
Why WOULDN'T he support them for the video game industry?
Re:Fuck off, you geriatric commie prick. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Fuck off, you geriatric commie prick. (Score:3, Interesting)
Obviously if anyone even mentions unionization they will be fired and probably sued. You're dreaming if you imagine the gubmint gives a flying fuck about the right to collective bargaining or any other labor protections. In Soviet America, workers have no rights.
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Is hyperbole *all* you have to offer?
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Is hyperbole *all* you have to offer?
He's also got sloth, greed and tons of bullshit.
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Who modded this "insightful"? If you did, put down the keyboard and step outside mother's basement into the actual, real world.
People will not join unions even if it is in their best interest and even if they really want to, if they fear repercussions. That is why in most of the civilized world (i.e. the west minus the USA), unions have certain legal protections, firing someone for joining a union is illegal, and the famous US sport of union busting is a crime that can land you in jail.
In some circumstances
Re:Fuck off, you geriatric commie prick. (Score:5, Insightful)
The writers at Vox Media recently formed a union and have been staging walkouts in the last few days. I fail to see any Pinkerton thugs beating them on the streets. Maybe it's you who needs to step outside.
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I've never seen a good idea that had to be forced on people.
So you've never heard of vaccination?
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99% of people don't have to have it forced upon them.
99% of people cry and holler when the evil needle pierces their baby skin. I think we can count that as "forced upon them".
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And I can really tell that, despite the covering rhetoric you've posted, you *really* want freedom to join or not join a union but are afraid of retribution from union members.
See how mind-reading works?
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That none of them seem to be in any hurry to start one says
that the games industry has done a lot to discourage unionization, and that it's probably a good thing for employees.
In fact a lot of the games industry is moving away from employment to a contract basis.
Re: Fuck off, you geriatric commie prick. (Score:2)
"Coders"
We can all tell you're not a programmer...
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Bernie Sanders is a good, fairly honest, decent man, who has spent his life in service to this country.
He is also a fucking nutt. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Bernie. I think he actually believes what he says and thinks its best for the country. But what he says is some times just plan crazy. Take a good look at his eyes the next time you see him. Aren't those the eyes of a loon?
Still, he would have been a better president than Hillary. Of course that is damning with faint praise.
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I actually like Bernie. I think he actually believes what he says and thinks its best for the country. But what he says is some times just plan crazy. Take a good look at his eyes the next time you see him. Aren't those the eyes of a loon?
Excellent example of Ad Hominem, but not a compelling argument. Will you beg a question, next? I don't see much of that these days.
Re: Fuck off, you geriatric commie prick. (Score:2)
baizuo "leftism" != socialism
Re: Trump actually will die in prison, sorry faggo (Score:2)
The nobility are innocent until proven guilty.
Us commoners are guilty until proven innocent, or more often until forced to give a false confession.
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Deny it thrice and thou wilt hear the cock crow.
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I'm pretty sure the video game industry destroyed itself quite some time back.
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I'm pretty sure the video game industry destroyed itself quite some time back.
Games keep coming out. AAA games, puzzle games, indie games, protest games... they just keep appearing, from my perspective. It seems to me like the rumors of the destruction of the video game industry are highly exaggerated.
Re: So now he wants to destroy the video game indu (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know why many Americans seem to be against unions.
Here in Denmark unions fairly works well: almost all blue color workers are unionized, giving high minimum wages and good working conditions. We have no minimum wage by law, the unions ensure that.
And Danish companies do compete well enough internationally.
For engineers we have unions, but they have no power: you can't get engineers into collective strikes and in the end that is the only power unions have. The blue color unions very rarely use that weapon but the only treat is there to get a better deal.
Our media is owned by billionaires (Score:2)
Our establishment media has a slight left wing bias on some social issues (guns, abortion, gay rights) and a hard right wing bias on economic issues, but the establishment media has spun that into a "Left Wing Media Bias". That makes people distrustful when any media pushes for pro-worker issues since pro
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Because in the US they have a history of being corrupt and in some older cases, run by organized crime. In some cases, they've done good work, but in many they've been no value added, and so skilled workers feel that they can negotiate better wages instead of being stuck with what is typically a seniority based system set up by the unions. It's also nearly impossible to get rid of a shitty union worker (nearly as hard as it is to get rid of a government employee). That should never be the case.
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Re: So now he wants to destroy the video game indu (Score:4, Informative)
Case in point: Hostess went belly up because they were not in a position to give in to the demands of the Baker's union and were told as much. The result? The Baker's union went on strike anyway and Hostess went bankrupt, a lot of people lost their jobs and so began the great twinkie hoarding.
Hostess went belly up because they couldn't manage themselves and after the workers and unions had already agreed to several pay and other cuts, the executives were still giving themselves bonuses.
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I can name about 200 unionized companies that exist very well, many of which I worked for in a non-union capacity, and they don't fail like the never-innovating fucktards in the auto industry.
For once, you've lost some respect from me. A poorly managed city which foolishly threw all of its cards into one fucking industry is not equal to the hundreds of other companies which properly utilize unionization. All you wanted to do was dig on the commie. Too bad half the shit you spout on this site is just as com
Re:ATTENTION ILLITERATE REPUBLICAN FAGGOTS : (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting. I was unaware that the only industry in the United States with a union was the auto industry. So, what exactly has UPS and Fedex been dealing with all these years? Guess United/American/Southwest/etc. have been negotiating with thin air. Could you also tell me what the NFLPA, NHLPA, NBAPA, etc. stand for? It really is just baffling.
None of those companies have ever turned a profit right? All of them have just run into the ground repeatedly and kept coming back with some endless pit of money from [insert your least favorite political group here]? Couldn't be that the big 3 in Detroit horribly mismanaged their companies and wastefully blew money all the time instead of actually trying to keep their company in the black (pretty bad optics when they showed up to their first hearings begging for a bailout on private jets reserved for executive usage only).
Re:ATTENTION ILLITERATE REPUBLICAN FAGGOTS : (Score:5, Insightful)
Detroit just called and said "o rly".
Hmm, maybe it has something to do with the big 3 making crappy cars that are worse than the competition.
Or maybe GM firing staff who point out dangerous flaws in their vehicles instead of just ignoring them.
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Um, no. It was something to do with crappy mob run unions that I grew up around. Ever heard of Jimmy Hoffa? It was all seniority based, not about skill. You could make triple time wages on holidays. If the assembly line broke down, you could go home at full pay...and it broke down...on purpose sometimes. If you knew the right people, you could order a new car with no options and have it delivered fully loaded. Yes, the companies shared the blame, along with the politicians too. So, why do you suppos
What the hell are you talking about? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sooooo, I write software for a living and have a pretty good familiarity with the general industry and the more niche game development section. I've looked into the positions and have colleagues that came from/went to work in game development. Personally, I absolutely REFUSE to work in game development as it stands in spite of the fact that I love gaming and think I would like doing that type of work. Want to know why I refuse? Because why in the fuck would I go work for a game development company not even making six figures (even at my experience level, and I was working as a team lead/senior developer 3 years out of college) putting in regular 70 hour weeks and 120+ crunch time?
I work in business software development and automation, make way more than I could in game development and work basically zero overtime. Even my first job out of college at a mid size company, I worked maybe 60 hour weeks during heavy load times (which was a few weeks a year typically) and I got comp time for those hours. I knew the financials of my first company and know the micro financials for my current company (publicly traded anyway), and they were both turning a very solid and steady profit. What the hell makes you think these companies putting out fucking video games can't do the same?
A union for them would not destroy anything other than the outrageous profits and bonuses of the top brass. Most of the people working in the industry are specifically doing it because they love video games just that much, and the people on top are just exploiting that. I don't give a shit if they are willingly doing it, it doesn't give the executives an excuse to abuse that. Not to mention, there is a large portion of that workforce that are not formally trained software developers. Many of the people working those crazy ass work weeks are people that went into a trade program for game development not fully understanding the horrible work conditions expected of them.
Finally, the last thing I'd like to point out is just some basic math. Lets say someone working at an EA studio at a mid-level position is pulling 80k a year. Respectable for sure, but think about the hourly equivalent. At 40 hours a week (assuming paid vacations, etc.) you're looking at around 38.46 an hour. Lets amp that up to what most of them are actually working regularly (I've known 4 different people that worked at an EA studio and it was all the same) which is a minimum of 70 hour weeks. Suddenly that hourly plummets to 21.97 without factoring in that they effectively aren't getting vacations. If we then take the average with the truly insane time of 120 hours a week and average it out to lets say 85 or 90 a week, they get 18.10 an hour. You are aware that many states are requiring 15 an hour to flip burgers now right?
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Are unions the fix for that? I'm not convinced. In my mind, that's like preventing forest fires by plowing it under. Bam! No more forest fires at least.
I wonder if a better approach is that of education; I suspect these kids coming straight out of college are hopelessly naive and are "chasing their dreams" ( because that's the kind of nonsense you get in school ). If, instead, part of their degree was learning how to take care of themselves AND learning about the normal conditions in their field, then
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In my mind, that's like preventing forest fires by plowing it under. Bam! No more forest fires at least.
If the only way the industry can survive is by worker exploitation, then perhaps it's better that the industry in its present form not exist.
This reminds me of a similar debate about 40 years ago going after child labour in clothing production. And no, in the absence of a large pool of cheap exploitable labour, the industry *did* eventually collapse. Should we have wept?
Now granted, the people going int
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I think the age of the population group we're discussing makes a difference, wouldn't you? These are adults we're talking about here, who are free to work where they will. Point of fact, introducing a "union" to the equation will inevitably lead to the loss of freedom for the adults in question, not greater freedom.
So is it worth it? I don't know, but I have a deep mistrust of unions in general and absent compelling evidence I would say no.
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These are adults we're talking about here, who are free to work where they will.
And yet we as a society have recognized that even adults involved in voluntary employment can be exploited and have drafted a raft of workplace regulation (including minimum wage, health and safety regs, etc.) to prevent that exploitation. We're okay with simply killing industries that aren't viable unless their workers are in danger or are paid almost nothing.
So agree or not, the will of the people is pretty unequivocal. Eve
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Depends on the union, but usually you are at least forced to join the union in some capacity or another, and lose pay because of it. Some industries require their host companies to hire exclusively from union employees as well, so hiring becomes highly regulated.
Beyond that, however, there are other fiscal pressures placed on employees. Have you ever had your union go on strike? Your choices are work and be a "scab", or lose income.
In any case, unions are a bad solution which usually end up being a bigge
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I'm afraid you are about a century behind the times, which is approximately when we first decided that society itself has an interest in the voluntary relationship between employer and employee.
You are, of course, free to work on reversing this trend, but I wouldn't count on immediate success...
Re:What the hell are you talking about? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've worked in the games industry for 13 years (and 10 years in other industries before that.) I believe the horror stories of prolonged crunch, misogynistic environments, and just bad management is what fuel the desire for unions. I also believe those stories are not indicative of the entire industry, just a handful of bad studios. From talking with colleagues it's likely less than a quarter of the studios that can be categorized as a bad actor and may even be less than 10%. A lot of the stories may be of a bad manager rather than studio culture and it needs to be looked at more because there is a real chance that the amazing studios out there will be hurt by the rules, collective bargaining, and other aspects that come with Unionization.
When I made the transition I gave up a job making $70/hr for a games industry job with salary about 1/3 as much and for a contractor on an EA project, right around the time the "EA Spouse" story occurred. There was crunch and leadership was excellent at managing limiting it; only allowing us to put in those extra hours every other week and with well defined milestones so the crunch wouldn't persist for months and months. We shipped a great product that I'm still proud of today. I understand stories like these aren't told as frequently as they aren't as interesting, but colleagues in the industry agree, this experience of mine is par for the course and not the exception.
Pro-unionization of the games industry alone would lose my vote; I'm sad to hear he's taking that stance and hope he changes his mind.
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I'm not refuting anything you've said, but it's worth noting that most development and in fact most of the worst crunch is not done in EA's offices or Ubisoft's offices. Unionisation may fix that, I can't really see all the angles to be sure.
No, most development is done by small studios who are contracted to big publishers. These small studios are started by passionate people who were burned by the industry and used their savings and whatever finance they can get to start their own company, staffed with oth
Re: ATTENTION ILLITERATE REPUBLICAN FAGGOTS : (Score:2)
Wolfsburg just called and said get a clue.
Not my subject line (Score:2)
Apologies for the offence
Re:ATTENTION ILLITERATE REPUBLICAN FAGGOTS : (Score:5, Insightful)
So you think a 120+ hour work week is acceptable
No, but rather than actually fixing the problem by ensuring that there is decent national employment law which regulates workers environments, wellbeing, and prevents abuses that we are seeing, Bernie Sanders is suggesting that instead the answer is to force workers to pay more of their wages to a third party and introduce more conflict and friction between worker and employer. Thats not a solution, thats Thunderdome.
The US has some of the worst employment law in the western world - for fucks sake, you have the concept of an *exempt* and *non-exempt* worker, thats insane! The US concept of a union is there to fix issues that most other western countries have solved through proper governance - you need to fix the underlying issue, not introduce more conflict to the situation!!!
Re:ATTENTION ILLITERATE REPUBLICAN FAGGOTS : (Score:4, Insightful)
by ensuring that there is decent national employment law which regulates workers environments, wellbeing, and prevents abuses that we are seeing
And who is going to enforce and monitor that law? Who is going to make sure that despite the law, companies don't simply let people do overtime? I know first hand that even when there is such a law on paper, people will bend to the demands of the company. They will clock out - and then go back to their workplace. On paper, the maximum working time is kept.
You would need government auditors touring the country doing unannounced spot checks. Or you could have representatives within the company watching out for the well-being of the workers. Oh wait, that's exactly the idea of a union!
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pure theory.
I have seen first hand people not saying a word about clearly illegal employer behaviour. And starting an investigation against your employer is actively discouraged in all those places. They'll tell you that it is a matter of loyalty (despite they aren't loyal to you) or that you should bring it up with HR first (despite HR not being on your side) or they will lie to you telling that their clearly illegal behaviour has been checked by the lawyers and is actually fine.
There's a big difference be
You can't fix the laws without organization (Score:3)
You are not John Galt. That's a good thing. Galt was an asshole and
Good governance (Score:2)
That good governance didn't just appear, workers got together to demand it.
Re:No, he didn't say "force" lol? (Score:5, Informative)
Im not lying at all (and you really need to look up the definition of that word, because you use it like a 5 year old hearing something they don't want to hear - but then, your entire post reads like that anyway).
Bernie Sanders solution is to involve a third party - not fix the problem, not introduce legislation, but to involve a third party. That third party is going to need paying. It's the workers that pay union dues. So to get their problems resolved, instead of the government stepping in and fixing it like a good government should do for its citizens, Bernies solution is to force workers to have to pay a third party to represent them. And that representation involves direct conflict with the employer.
So no, not lying, and my interpretation is 100% accurate.
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Unions are third parties, yes, but they are the only way for independent people to gain representation and strength to stand up to their employers -- And eventually to press on legislators to show how many people oppose a given status that allows companies to abuse workers.
Re:You're uneducated. (Score:5, Interesting)
Except that that ruling has fuck all to do with the private video game sector and its employers and workers - its to do with public workers and freedom of speech.
It also has nothing to do with my comment at all, because if the union isn't collecting the dues from the workers, then its not representing them - if its not representing them, then Bernies solution is a non-solution, and the employee is back to "120 hour working weeks". In order for the union to represent them, the worker has to pay their dues to the union.
Bernies solution is unions. For unions to be willing to represent, they must be paid. So to gain representation, a worker is forced to pay the union.
Its quite simple, so if you don't understand the issue then I'd suggest you start switching to velcro belts, as buckle belts seem to be beyond you.
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"So you think a 120+ hour work week is acceptable, but you're so lazy and jobless you spend all day on /....."
You're not working 120 hour work weeks, and neither are they. I'm so lazy that after 42 years of work, I'm retired, so fuck you.
In this economy, if you're being overworked, there's no excuse for you not leaving and finding another job. Quit your whining and go welcome people to Walmart. Maybe if you had a spine, you'd log in, but we know you trolls don't.
Re: Why not? (Score:2)
Re: Unions destroy businesses (Score:2, Informative)
Volkswagen seem to be doing ok despite unions "destroying" them.
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Huh?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/15... [cnn.com]
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/u... [wsj.com]
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China is a Communist State, Bernie is on record as pro socialist and pro communist and you say I am wanting China?
Projecting Much?
Re:SirAstral loves to suck Chinese cocks for penni (Score:5, Interesting)
China is a Communist State, Bernie is on record as pro socialist and pro communist and you say I am wanting China?
I think that's taking things a bit too far. Bernie Sanders is a self-professed "democratic socialist" but outwardly he seems more like a social democrat. [peoplesworld.org] Per the article I linked, this might be an attempt by Sanders to distance himself slightly from Democrats by using the concept of democracy as an adjective rather than a noun.
Sanders does sound like the kind of social democrat that would be common in Canada or many European countries: support for robust social programs, but all within a constitutional democracy. Definitely not hard-core communism or socialism. [investopedia.com]
Also I wouldn't consider China Communist (Score:3)
I've pointed this out elsewhere, but Communism as laid out by Marx requires a country to be industrialized before it converts to it. Otherwise it doesn't have the labor organization to successfully make the shift from the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" to actual Communism.
This is exactly what happened in China. It devolved into a permanent fascist
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Re: If you don't work there (Score:2, Insightful)
"then how is it any of your business?"
Are you familiar with the concept of labor solidarity? Almost all of us here are workers - not you, I know, you're a temporarily inconvenienced billionaire. All of us are to varying degrees exploited by the capital Owners for whose profit we are required to toil.
When we see our brothers in the video game industry being abused like slaves, we see our own future if we cannot learn to stand together and stand up for the interests of labor. An injury to one is an injury to
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Are you familiar with the concept of labor solidarity?
Yes. It requires internalizing the idea that you are an interchangeable unit of production with nothing more to offer than anyone else in your field. It's a surrender to mediocrity, giving up on improvement and opportunity.
Almost all of us here are workers - not you, I know, you're a temporarily inconvenienced billionaire. All of us are to varying degrees exploited by the capital Owners for whose profit we are required to toil.
Declaring yourself a victim is a sure way to be victimized. Congrats. Mission accomplished.
When we see our brothers in the video game industry being abused like slaves, we see our own future if we cannot learn to stand together and stand up for the interests of labor. An injury to one is an injury to all.
People like you keep the bogeyman busy. He's always out to get you. The rest of us can sleep easy knowing you have made yourself an easy target for him.
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How is he going to earn above minimum wage though? He's lazy and sucks at his job, so he has to find others who are willing to give up some of their own money to take care of him by grouping together and mutually sucking. Unlike virtually every IT person worth a shit who can easily pull in six digits, he wants some of yours. So, give it up you greedy bastard.
Re: If you don't work there (Score:2)
You write like "six digits" is supposed to be impressive. In Surveillance Valley, New Jack City, and other major American metro areas 100k to 200k is firmly in "permanent renter" territory. Is that your idea of a good wage?
"Wow, bossman pays me enough to live indoors! I'm so speeeeeecial and TALENTED!!!!!!1!!!!"
Or maybe you (or your rich family?) bought a house decades ago, back when workers could still afford property? In which case that would put you on the other side of the generational housing wealth
Re:Who cares if Bernie Sanders supports it??? (Score:5, Informative)
Bernie is IN office right now. He's a legislator. His profession is about legislating, that is making laws.
Re: Entitled peoples are never satisfied. (Score:2)
Oooooooooo, they're so _entitled_, they want humane working conditions. HOW DARE THEY demand to be treated better than literal slaves in a salt mine!
Seriously, numbnuts, are you just a blithering idiot? Or are you a sycophantic Uncle Tom who licks the boot that kicks you in the face, hoping maybe massa will let you be a house slave?
Re: (Score:2)
If Uncle Joe had run in 2016, would we have missed out on a President called Trump?
Handsy Joe didn't run because it wasn't his turn. The more accurate way to word that is "If the DNC had run Handsy Joe[...]"
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Gotta love how people will mark you down for a factual statement.
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/. used to be a place were you could have a civil discussion with some "smart" people or at least the ones that knows how to use their brains.
Sure. And it still is, although there's a lot less of them.
But now when I look at the comment section... I'm shocked...very shocked and Disappointed.
Some types of discussion were always dominated by insults. Being disappointed is reasonable, but shocked? That's a bit much.