Guinness Reinstates Billy Mitchell's Donkey Kong, Pac-Man Records

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Guinness World Records has reinstated a number of classic video game world records held by Billy Mitchell. The move comes just over two years after Mitchell's records were expunged following an investigation by Twin Galaxies International Scoreboard, which partners with Guinness to adjudicate video game records. That investigation found that recordings of some of Mitchell's record performances on Donkey Kong were not achieved on legitimate arcade hardware, based on extensive video analysis that showed signs of emulator use. Twin Galaxies has not changed its position on Mitchell's records, resulting in a split between the two record-tracking organizations. Guinness now once again recognizes Mitchell as the first player to achieve a perfect Pac-Man score of 3,333,360 points in 1999 and the first player to reach 1 million points in Donkey Kong in 2005. "It's been a long time coming," Mitchell said in an interview with Ars Technica. Twin Galaxies owner and CEO Jace Hall sent this meme as an image, which he said could serve as his quote on the matter.

Mitchell has since released a fuller video statement, "where he says he first got in touch with Guinness last September," adds Ars. "Mitchell uses the opportunity to praise Guinness' reputation and says it was 'very refreshing dealing with them' as they conducted their own investigation."

Look in the mirror

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure BeauHD knows what news is.

We all knew what you meant to say, too bad you were to inept to type it correctly.

Turns out this is a News For Nerds site, and nothing is nerdier than a story about Donkey Kong records.

Put simply; this story belongs here, if you don't think so go back to HuffPo or wherever and leave the real nerds to look at actually nerdy things.

Sure hope he gets an asterisk

[Snotnose]

Can't prove he's cheating, can't prove he ain't. The scales of justice are more on the cheating side than the other side, so the dude needs an asterisk by his name.

Honestly, if that's your claim to fame, your life's ambition, the only thing you've done in 50 years, then, well. You have not lived a life well lived.

Re:Sure hope he gets an asterisk

[93 Escort Wagon]

Honestly, if that's your claim to fame, your life's ambition, the only thing you've done in 50 years, then, well. You have not lived a life well lived.

Yeah, it's not as if he's collected the world's biggest ball of string or something meaningful like that.

Re: Sure hope he gets an asterisk

[cormandy]

MAME BigBallOfString.rom

Re:

[rtb61]

Nope played the same computer game, over and over and over ............ like beyond ad nasuem. To memorise every bit of it, to learn and lock in mind body reactions to that specific game. Should get an award for their willingness to subject themselves to extremes of boredom, well it would be for me and I really enjoy computer games but not playing the same thing over and over and over ............, the mind or should a say lack of mind boggles.

Re:Sure hope he gets an asterisk

[xpiotr]

Honestly, if that's your claim to fame, your life's ambition, the only thing you've done in 50 years, then, well. You have not lived a life well lived.

Or the guy just really likes Pac-Man and Donkey Kong.
Mastered the craft and got really good.
Who are we to judge?

Then he got accused of cheating,
it seems to me this is more about not being called a lier than getting a record back.

Re:Sure hope he gets an asterisk

[AmiMoJo]

That he cheated is not really in question. The video he made showing his Donkey Kong record is an emulator, there is no question. It's impossible that he could not have known it was an emulator, just capturing the video requires opening the machine up and connecting to the internals and he has never provided any explanation as to how it supposedly happened.

So the only question is what to do about his other scores where there is no evidence of cheating. Do we assume that they are all suspect now and should be removed, as Twin Galaxies does, or do we say that in the absence of any evidence to the contrary his records stand as Guinness does?

Generally athletes who fail a drugs test only have records related to that test removed, but sometimes it goes further and their entire record is expunged like Lance Armstrong. It mostly depends how they react when caught and how extensive the proven cheating is. Given it's only one case for Mitchel then a lighter punishment seems in order.

Re:

[N1AK]

This is the really important distinction here. He submitted a game played on an emulator and claimed it was on original hardware, he denied it at the time and still hasn't admitted it. No one is saying he isn't an incredibly good player and/or couldn't achieve the score on actual hardware, but how much can you trust anything he submits if he works this hard to deny it when caught cheating. To put in context, if an athlete was caught using performance inhancing drugs they might not get the "full Armstrong" t

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

There are lots of similar examples in sport. Athletes who took a substance they claim they thought was allowed or didn't know they were taking. All sorts of excuses for missing drug tests. They get off a lot lighter if they admit to doing it, provide a plausible excuse and promise not to do it again.

Re:

[N1AK]

Exactly my point, athletes (like criminals generally) normally get less severe punishment if they own up and apologise. He hasn't, and as the evidence that he cheated is overwhelmingly strong, I find it hard to be overly sympathetic that all his records were removed.

Re:

[Spazmania]

The video he made showing his Donkey Kong record is an emulator, there is no question.

Where can I find a copy of the this video? It's not that I don't automatically believe someone who says there's "no question," but if it's all the same I'd like to see for myself.

just capturing the video requires opening the machine up and connecting to the internals

You could also train a camera on the screen, but if you want to capture the video directly it's not especially hard. Those old machines used ordinary NTSC monitors. You need a converter to get composite video suitable for recording but as hardware hacks go that's both mild and non-intrusive. The game board sends analog signals for

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

https://youtu.be/KYtJzRcvOzk [youtu.be]

Re:

[garyisabusyguy]

The Billy Mitchell haters are a bunch of emotional twats who simply do not like him

The idea that they can flush his life away by mouthing the same response over and over just demonstrates the low point that debate has reached in this country

Re:

[garyisabusyguy]

You are a fucking dipshit if you expect a video format that uses compression to give you any solid evidence at a single-frame level

Re:

[Spazmania]

First, thank you for posting the video.

Second... What do you see here? I see an analog VHS recording with artifacts consistent with extended play and the monitor tilted 90 degrees. Exactly what I'd expect if someone hacked a cabinet to hook up a VCR and expected to be recording for longer than the 2 hours a VHS tape lasts on standard play. If that was an emulator, he went to a lot of trouble to set it up to look like it wasn't, particularly for '99 when MAME was relatively new and didn't have a lot of featu

Re:

[AmiMoJo]

There are some extensive analysis videos on YouTube but basically if you look at the way the screen is redrawn between levels it's done the way MAME does it, not the way the real hardware does it. The real hardware copies graphic data into display memory without any syncronization so you get artefacts as it "races the beam". MAME draws to a back buffer and swaps it in so there are no artefacts.

Re:

[rmdingler]

Can't prove he's cheating, can't prove he ain't. The scales of justice are more on the cheating side than the other side, so the dude needs an asterisk by his name. Honestly, if that's your claim to fame, your life's ambition, the only thing you've done in 50 years, then, well. You have not lived a life well lived.

Honest claims to fame include, but are not limited to: Having the physical ability to throw a prolate spheroid accurately to a well defended ally, under pressure, exhibiting uncanny ability to accurately toss a sphere through a round peach basket, and moving one's fingers a bit faster on a game controller.

In America, we have people (probably) who are famous for being famous. Sadly, there are plenty of folks who'd reconcile their idea of a good life with a championship video game carreer.

Re:

[Falos]

I still don't know what a Kardasian does.

Re:

[aardvarkjoe]

I still don't know what a Kardasian does.

Don't they build space stations or something?

A Kardashian does Ray J, ecstasy, and OJ

[raymorris]

> I still don't know what a Kardasian does.

  A Kardashian is famous for doing Ray J while doing ecstasy.

Also, for getting OJ off despite a mountain of evidence.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

> I still don't know what a Kardasian does.

  A Kardashian is famous for doing Ray J while doing ecstasy.

Also, for getting OJ off despite a mountain of evidence.

The Kardashians have gotten a lot of black guys off.

Re:

[sjames]

That's either a scheming pack of lizard people or a non-human race from Star Trek.

Re:

[Cylix]

The evidence was stacked pretty high against him. He probably did play those games stitched together.

Re:

[garyisabusyguy]

The fact that he has repeated the performance in front of people stands as a stark demonstration that he simply did not need to cheat

You can prove that he cheated.

[gl4ss]

you can prove it wasn't recorded from original hardware.

and who even cares about that though? when he was given different rules to begin with? playing alone in a room with a vcr, lol?

so anyway. you can prove that B.M cheated. thats why twin galaxies had to remove the scores, because they would have been a laughing stock otherwise.

also in other news guinness in past month claimed ALL super mario bros. speedruns on youtube. because someone gave them the permission to use their run on their channel they then d

Shoot how cool

[AndyKron]

Oh-My-God this is better than the Fake News I read about Trump dying from a bone spur infection he got walking down a slippery slope.

Our long national nightmare is finally over

[93 Escort Wagon]

We can breathe freely and without fear, once again.

Re:

[Anubis IV]

We can breathe freely and without fear, once again.

Just be sure to wear a mask.

Overview of Donkey Kong Scandel

[Jarwulf]

If anyone is curious here is a good overview of the Donkey Kong scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] theres many other videos on youtube that go into much more detail but generally Billy Mitchell is a very shady and litigious figure and while he does have some apparently genuine records way back in the 80s there is a lot of evidence that he's done a ton of cheating since then.

Re:

[chispito]

If anyone is curious here is a good overview of the Donkey Kong scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] theres many other videos on youtube that go into much more detail but generally Billy Mitchell is a very shady and litigious figure and while he does have some apparently genuine records way back in the 80s there is a lot of evidence that he's done a ton of cheating since then.

He makes such a good villain I'm kind of glad he's back in the spotlight.

Re:

[loonycyborg]

Yeah right, all evidence of cheating amounts to him being a person with poor social skills which by all means isn't enough of a proof. Basically whole case is one huge ass pull that stands only because he alienated all people who could review it properly at the time the decision was made. No wonder it didn't fly with Guinness.

Re:

[N1AK]

I never knew that poor social skills could lead to a screen displaying behaviour seen on emulators but not on original hardware while original hardware was being used; his crap people skills might be why he wasn't able to agree to keep some of his other records but this all started because he cheated.

Re:

[loonycyborg]

Behavior that was specific to version of MAME that didn't exist at the time the record was entered. And he entered only records made in presence of live audience which requires a lot more than doctoring a game, but also hijacking entire set of hardware involved requiring many accomplices.

Finally, order is being restored.

[JackAxe]

I'll take a positive no matter how minuscule in the scheme of things.

Meh, Twin Galaxies is the one that matters

[rsilvergun]

nobody in the community cares about Guinness.

For those who don't get the meme

[rsilvergun]

there's a common image macro that captions the picture with a snarky phrase at the top and "But that's none of my Business" at the bottom. Twin Galaxies is throwing shade to say Guinness & Mitchell are full of it.

Re:For those who don't get the meme

[chispito]

there's a common image macro that captions the picture with a snarky phrase at the top and "But that's none of my Business" at the bottom. Twin Galaxies is throwing shade to say Guinness & Mitchell are full of it.

Responding with a meme is a good reminder that none of this matters in the least.

I take it you're under 40

[rsilvergun]

because if you weren't you'd understand just how important the high score at Donkey Kong really is.

Re:

[chispito]

because if you weren't you'd understand just how important the high score at Donkey Kong really is.

You're going to have to explain. From King of Kong I know it's a very challenging game with a high skill ceiling. I'm old enough to have actually played it as a child when arcades were more than a curiosity, but I wasn't old enough to have been serious about it till there were flashier games to play.

But it's an extremely niche record to hold, and the supposed "authority" on the matter, Twin Galaxies, has always come off as even sketchier than Mitchell himself.

Please have mercy

[Joe2020]

Please no more gruesome stories on some old game played by a bunch of kids so pathetic they cannot even decide on a winner. This isn't news for nerds anymore. This is a place where moderation points go to die.

Billy Mitchell

[rossdee]

Wasn't he a General in the (Army) Air Force ? They named the B25 bomber after him

Doesn't matter.

[3vi1]

No one in the community believes his scores are legit. He got caught using emulators (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/premiere-game-scoreboard-bans-billy-mitchell-in-donkey-kong-cheating-scandal/), so who knows if they're tool-assisted or benefiting from other hacks. Any time his name is mentioned, the facts will be brought up. Eventually, more evidence will present itself and his scores will be expunged again. If he wants the record, he'll have to do it in public, in front of everyone, because he already proved he can't be trusted.

Re:

[Joe_Dragon]

post the full video with no compressing, covenanting, encoding. youtube video have compression / encoding that can make some frame by frame stuff look off.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

He was not "caught" using an emulator. It is "suspected" he used one based on some evidence that was brought forth.

Please understand the difference, lest you taint the discussion. It's not like somebody opened up the cabinet and saw a computer running MAME there while he was playing the game.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Chissblue]

Exactly. The emulator evidence was fully sound. The fact he held so many different records was suspicious. And the number 33 is a deception number the freemasons use to work their magic.

Re:

[ebvwfbw]

...And the number 33 is a deception number the freemasons use to work their magic.

LOL.. So, can you tell me what the boogeyman looks like?

I bet you still believe in Magic. If you knew what's behind it, it's a trick. Slight of hand, misdirection, etc. Same thing with the free masons. No magic, just community support.

Re:

[Calydor]

Honestly curious here; would TRAINING on an emulator but doing the actual records on legit hardware be against or within the rules?

Re:

[N1AK]

Nope. Using emulators isn't wrong or anything, but as you could in principle amend the logic in an emulator they aren't allowed in original hardware records. You can train to run anywhere, but if you want to have an official record you need to perform in controlled circumstances not just say you ran a 100m stretch of your street super fast without anyone there to validate it.

Re:

[thereddaikon]

The rule should be changed. These cabinets are museum pieces prone to failure with 40 year old hardware and aren't exactly cheap or affordable. Requiring an actual cabinet means these vintage arcade records are effectively off limits to anyone outside of the insular arcade cabinet collector community. It's a real thing, I'm not exaggerating.

The logic can be changed on the real hardware too. In some ways its more trivial given the size of the components and traces involved. I'd reckon the PCBs are also very

Re:

[Calydor]

That's actually an incredibly good point I'd never thought of. To use the example someone else mentioned elsewhere in the comments, it would be like if Guinness changed the world's largest ball of twine to the world's largest ball of twine made before 1980. There's only going to be so much of it around.

Re:

[MooseTick]

Here is one for sale for $3500 on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DONKE... [ebay.com]

While not super cheap, most people could afford one if they were into it.

As far as a tamper proof emulator, that would be harder than it seems. The user could run it in a VM and save states the emulator couldn't be aware of, allowing cheating.

Re:

[N1AK]

I'm not against changing the rules, in fact I don't care what the rules are, but whether you agree with the idea or not doesn't change that he cheated by falsely claiming he used original hardware; the argument about difficulty to acquire is particularly weak in his case as there's no way access would be a problem. Yes it does limit who can take part, but try getting a landspeed record and tell me if that works out easier than getting access to an original arcade cabinet. Twin Galaxies are being fair... if

Re:

[WeatherServo9]

Part of the distinction is due to emulators being imperfect with subtle differences in emulation vs a real machine possible. Depends on the game, too, as some games are more accurate than others, and newer versions of the emulators are usually more accurate. I think there's a fear of there being some subtle difference that makes the emulated game play different than the real hardware would.

Re:

[tlhIngan]

The rule should be changed. These cabinets are museum pieces prone to failure with 40 year old hardware and aren't exactly cheap or affordable. Requiring an actual cabinet means these vintage arcade records are effectively off limits to anyone outside of the insular arcade cabinet collector community. It's a real thing, I'm not exaggerating.

The community of record breakers is small.

You train on emulators - the "feel" can be had by dozens of arcade controllers available for well, anything.

The availability of

Why?

[hcs_$reboot]

Why does the picture link in TFS have to be an ad for an untasty low grade tea?

Guinness is meaningless

[dirk]

This is because Guinness is meaningless at this point. They do not actually track records, they are a vanity book people can pay to get their records in. People basically pay for them to show up and certify a "record". Unless you pay them, they won't generally show up and certify your record. So basically, you are paying to get your name in their book. Sure, you have to be good enough to make whatever record you are trying to set (or choose something obscure enough that there isn't any competition), but it's not like being in their book means you actually have any type of record.

Re:

[turp182]

It was a cool book in the 1980s, sort of a pre-internet "internet" of things like someone smoking 20+ cigarettes at a time (I'm sure that's removed).

Recently got an updated copy for the kids: Boring. Too much marketing design and tons of inane "records" no one wants to read about.

This article is exactly that, no one cares (well, one person does).

They did last longer than the encyclopedias. They have that going for them.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

GWR's official video.

[antdude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

It should be easy to match his Pac-Man record

[ayesnymous]

It should be easy for someone to either beat, or at least match, his Pac-Man record. After all, the ghosts move in a pattern.

I thought this was Slashdot!

[indytx]

Only 61 comments after 12 hours!?! What's wrong with the world? DONKEY KONG! BILLY MITCHELL'S HAIR!!!

After further review ...

[Ted Stoner]

The play on the field stands.

Dont think the video I saw was MAME

[GalacticOvergrow]

Those old Nintendo games used a weird CGA monitor with inverted RGB, later models included a video inverter addon board. They were not NTSC or composite. They also had an unusual defect where a boost strap capacitor would fail and cause the video to hook to the right at the top of the screen, for Donkey Kong and Jr that would be the right side of the screen since they were a vertically oriented game. I noticed in a supposed MAME video that the guy made that was obviously recorded with a camcorder pointed

So long

[scilover]

I remember watching a youtube video about people claiming he was cheating Donkey Kong years ago.I can’t believe people are still talking about it. It’s crazy how a game from 1981 is still having controversies.