'PS5 Pro Signposts a Disc-Less Future That Few Actually Want' (gamesindustry.biz) 91
From an opinion piece on GamesIndustry.biz about the recently launched PS5 Pro that went on sale this week: What I'd argue is actually more interesting about PS5 Pro in a wider perspective isn't what Sony has done to the chips in the system -- it's what they've chosen not to include, and what it tells us about the decision-making process that's likely occurring for the company's future hardware. PS5 Pro doesn't have a disc drive. Anyone who wants to play disc-based games on the system will need to buy one of the add-on drives Sony started selling when the PS5 Slim model was released, adding further to the cost of the already very expensive device.
To add insult to injury, Sony doesn't seem to have made any effort whatsoever to ensure that those drives are actually well-stocked for the launch of the Pro. I can only speak directly to the situation in Japan, where they've been out of stock at most major retailers for months and even second-hand units are being sold at three to four times SRP by scalpers. But asking around suggests that the situation isn't much better in other regions. That's a very rough welcome to PS5 Pro ownership for anyone upgrading who has a collection of games on disc.
It's possible, of course, that Sony excluded the drive simply because its cost would push the Pro's price tag even higher. However, the incongruity of Sony's "Pro" console lacking the basic ability to play the games Sony sells at retailers all around the world is striking, and it's difficult to see the decision to accept that incongruity -- and the inconvenience it would inevitably cause for customers -- as anything other than strategic.
Digital sales make up a bigger and bigger portion of the industry's revenues every year, but physical game sales are still a very big deal -- and physical games are products that fall outside the control of publishers and platform holders in a way that they have found increasingly irritating in recent years. People who buy physical games can sell them second-hand or lend them to their friends, retailers with physical games in stock can discount them or include them in bundles as they see fit.
To add insult to injury, Sony doesn't seem to have made any effort whatsoever to ensure that those drives are actually well-stocked for the launch of the Pro. I can only speak directly to the situation in Japan, where they've been out of stock at most major retailers for months and even second-hand units are being sold at three to four times SRP by scalpers. But asking around suggests that the situation isn't much better in other regions. That's a very rough welcome to PS5 Pro ownership for anyone upgrading who has a collection of games on disc.
It's possible, of course, that Sony excluded the drive simply because its cost would push the Pro's price tag even higher. However, the incongruity of Sony's "Pro" console lacking the basic ability to play the games Sony sells at retailers all around the world is striking, and it's difficult to see the decision to accept that incongruity -- and the inconvenience it would inevitably cause for customers -- as anything other than strategic.
Digital sales make up a bigger and bigger portion of the industry's revenues every year, but physical game sales are still a very big deal -- and physical games are products that fall outside the control of publishers and platform holders in a way that they have found increasingly irritating in recent years. People who buy physical games can sell them second-hand or lend them to their friends, retailers with physical games in stock can discount them or include them in bundles as they see fit.
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I tend to agree with you, especially since shops nowadays sell you a plastic case with a download code inside anyway.
But then you look at Warcraft 3, for example, and the only available version officially is the one Blizzard wants you to play, and you have to go somewhere else to download a version of your liking.
Granted that most games are online only anyway, and they only let you connect to their servers if you have the "right" version. But there is a certain loss of ownership with the discs gone.
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This. Movies, and music, and most gaming platforms went away from physical media years ago. What's next, people asking for physical media for their phone game?
If you have a PS4 and a shelf full of disks..... you can continue to play them on your PS4.
Re:"few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:5, Insightful)
The optical drive also tends to be the first thing that dies on a console, resulting in either a bricked console or an expensive repair - or even having to mod the console to accept a new drive because the drives are paired to the console.
Having the drive be an external device at least makes it easier to replace when it fails.
But people complaining about a lack of optical media are thinking long term. I can dig out a PS1 with a selection of games and still play them today many years after Sony discontinued the console. But any console that needs an online service becomes a brick the day that service is turned off.
Sony also still don't support IPv6 properly, which causes problems for the millions of people who can only access IPv4 through CGNAT. Microsoft brought full IPv6 support with the Xbox One which came out back in 2013.
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Whoa! Are you serious? The drive is uniquely locked to the console and vice versa?
Re: "few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:2)
In most consoles with internal drives, yes. I did a drive on... A 360 I think? And I swapped the logic board from one optical drive to the other in order to do the replacement.
The used market as well (Score:2)
But people complaining about a lack of optical media are thinking long term. I can dig out a PS1 with a selection of games and still play them today many years after Sony discontinued the console. But any console that needs an online service becomes a brick the day that service is turned off.
There's also the used market for current gen games. I have very fond memories of my parents taking me to used game shops from time to time with the very modest sum of money I managed to save up as a child and walking out with an awesome game I bought with my own money! If I was still a console gamer today (I switched to PC gaming in my teens) I'd still be doing the used market as well, I like to save money and the vast majority of the time there's no difference between a used or new game. I feel like losing
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I loved used game sales for the PC too, found some of my favorites that way. However, the game industry hates and despises the very concept of used or loaned games. The industry HATES kids who can't steal mom's credit cards to buy whatever they want. They want full price on every game, and no discounts except for closely monitored sales to help gauge future price points. They don't care that you don't like them, they're willing to forgo any customers who are frugal, they've got the money printing monthl
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I remember that brief window when we had used PC games too. It was nice.
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We also had bargain bin games. Newish games that hadn't sold well, so were discounted to make room for other products. I found some good ones this way. Now with digital sales, there is no incentive to clear out old inventory.
Re: "few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:1)
I can dig out a PS1 with a selection of games and still play them today many years after Sony discontinued the console.
Sure you can, but do you actually do that?
In my experience those games you loved back then disappoint on replaying them. Our memories of those games are better than the actual games. In my opinion itâ(TM)s better to let them stay memories. It saves you from playing a disappointing game and ruining a good memory.
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Sure you can, but do you actually do that?
Constantly. Same with the Dreamcast and PS2. Today's games are mostly merely okay. Big studios and big budgets mean less experimentation and more cooks to demand all the uniqueness get filed off so that everything behaves like the same third-person open world you've seen before. And they take so long to make you need something else to play in the interim. Indies fill that niche for many, but they tend to be highly derivative of old games and IMHO you're often better going direct to the 20-25 year old thing
Re:"few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:5, Insightful)
This seems like a good idea in theory, until Sony or the game developer decides to shut down the update/DRM servers for the game and it no longer works properly.
Only at that point do you realize that having a physical copy of the complete game might have been a good idea after-all.
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You're assuming you can play the game. It's been a long time since I've heard of someone buying a disc based game, throwing it in their PS5 and being able to play it straight away. Typically what happens is the first thing you actually need to do is download an update making the entire disk exercise pointless.
Also you're assuming people play games for the need to own a game. Many people don't. Many people play games for entertainment, and entertainment is fungible. "Oh noes game X no longer works!", *procee
Re: "few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:1)
You've heard of skyrim, right? 13 years and still being played. So much for game Y.
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Congrats, you're that diehard I was talking about. And what happens if Skyrim stops working? Will you go into a state of depression? Will you leave the gaming industry and burn your PS5 / Computer? Will your life breakdown?
Or ... I'm guessing you'll play a different game. Entertainment is not a collectors item, it's a fleeting boost of endorphins releasable in any number of different ways.
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entertainment is fungible
Obviously not.
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Except it literally is. There is no singular way to be entertained even when you narrow it down into industry, even when you narrow it down into sub genre within an industry. Hell in some cases even when you narrow it all the way down to a specific franchise. Can't play the original Doom? You can be entertained playing Doom 2016. It is in fact entertaining.
Entertainment from computer games is the perfect definition of fungible. You can get it from a mindboggling number of different sources. Unless you only
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Entertainment from computer games is the perfect definition of fungible.
LOL! No, it's not. You very obviously don't know what the word "fungible" means. Here's a clue for you:
fungible [merriam-webster.com] (adj): 1 - being something (such as money or a commodity) of such a nature that one part or quantity may be replaced by another equal part or quantity in paying a debt or settling an account. 2: capable of mutual substitution.
fungible (n): something that is fungible [...] a good one part or quantity of which can be substituted for another of equal value in satisfying an obligation
Commodities like crude oil are fungible. One barrel of oil is as good as another. Computer games are not. You wouldn't order computer games by the pound, would you? Of course you wouldn't. That's because which games you get matter. Computer games are non-fungible.
For "entertainment from computer games" to be fungible, then you could substitute any game for another. e.g. If you placed an order for
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A lot of people are getting into "retro" gaming, though, which still allows you to quickly get into a game and play it without a bunch of additional downloads. I don't blame them, either, because the whole "Account Signup, Agree to the EULA, Log In and Wait another 30 minutes for patches to download" process sucks. It sucks even more if you have 2FA enabled and/or you forgot your password.
It also makes you wonder what's going to happen to this generation of Internet connected games that require a 5 GB patch
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Over 74% of games are "complete" on disc according to doesitplay which is defined as fully playable with no patches with only minor bugs (nothing is ever bug free, even the final patched version anyway.) A further 14% are defined as playable but buggy though not show stoppingly so. And that percentage is dragged down because of Xbox and Switch allowing too many publishers to skimp on the disc/cart sizes to force a download. PS5 versions are more likely to arrive on multi-layer discs with the full game for s
Re: "few" should be "almost everyone" (Score:2)
I'm Cool With It (Score:1)
I'm totally fine with disc-less. I have a PS5 with the disc drive, and while I've used it for a couple games, I far prefer digital downloads. They can be acquired from my couch and with a 100Gig connection, they download quick and easily. No clutter around the house, nothing to throw in the landfill, no getting up and inserting a disc every time I want to play, no noise of the disc spinning. Totally down with disc-less.
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You have a 100Gig connection?!
Must be nice.
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Especially since the PS5 only has 1 gigabit ethernet, and the pro has wifi7 which *might* be a bit faster under ideal conditions, but in real world scenarios generally won't be, and won't be anywhere close to 100gbps in any case.
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how meany games does it take to hit your cap?
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Newsflash: Your net connection is in the top 5% if not 1% of the world.
Re:I'm Cool With It (Score:4, Insightful)
Newsflash: I'm well aware.
Newsflash: even when you buy the disc you still have to download tens, if not hundreds of gigs, of game data nearly the same as buying the digital copy.
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Yes most users will have a much worse experience downloading games...
I have 1gbps fibre here, but sony don't support IPv6 and legacy IPv4 traffic goes through CGNAT which slows things down massively at peak times. I can get 1gbps downloads over IPv6 day or night, but less than half that over IPv4.
A lot of users will also be using wireless, so things could be massively slower still due to congestion and interference. In the apartment building here i can get around 600mbps using wifi6 when in the same room as
Few people want it? (Score:1)
I was too lazy to deal with disks all the way back on the Wii (I almost always ended up playing the little download games rather than dealing with the disks).
I understand that there are people that like the permanence of disks, and it'll be a shame in 10 years when the games are lost forever, but I imagine the typical user prefers diskless.
Re:Few people want it? (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand that there are people that like the permanence of disks,
It's not about what you want anymore. The days of "the customer is always right" are long dead. You will be told what you will use.
You will own nothing and be happy.
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It's not so much the lack of ownership that bothers me.
I'm happy to rent things.
I'm more concerned about stuff becoming lost to time. There's too many movies and games not available to rent on any platform, and with the death of physical media they'll be lost forever going forward.
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Much like broadcast tapes of TV shows before the advent of VCRs, many things were lost to time and the consumer is the one who cares more about preserving it.
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When was the customer ever right in any industry?
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and be happy
That's all most gamers want, anyway. Good that they're including it in the programming.
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The customer was never always right. There are always different people with different needs or desires. You can't cater to everyone. I know that upsets some Karens but the reality is outside of the service industry you have always had the exclusive option of receiving what was on offer or taking your business elsewhere. That's how products work.
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I may be in the minority, but my philosophy is, "I will own nothing, because I don't care anymore and don't bother."
I'd be nice if more people had enough spine to boycott all this bullshit, but apparently, people really are happy to own nothing. Sad.
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Certainly I was too lazy too. I ripped the games to an external USB and used a launcher. But my disc drive is still pristine and I still own a copy even if the original Wii dies and Nintendo no longer supports it.
I love replaying older games and I'm not going to constantly re-buy them to do it.
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I purchased the legendary of Zelda 4 times.
1) NES
2) pre order wind waker (the main reason i pre ordered it was it came with the legend of Zelda and orcana of time if you did)
3) on the Wii (the convenience was worth $7 to me)
4) the game and watch
I honestly don't mind paying a few bucks to rebuy old content. I'm sort of upset I can't really buy some Dreamcast games I want, even though I can hook up my old Dreamcast if I really want to
Even That Seems Somewhat Pointless (Score:5, Insightful)
To paraphrase Agent Smith: "What good is a disc drive, if games demand connectivity?"
The bigger issue is that very few games will allow a player to have a completely offline experience. Insert disc > copy to drive > play game. Not every game will work this way, of course, but this experience is becoming incredibly rare. Yes, there is incentive to have an internet connection; multiplayer gaming being one such reason, DLC and MMO/Live Service games being others...but the absence of the disc drive isn't the cause of the issues, it's a symptom of the trajectory of gaming.
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To paraphrase Agent Smith: "What good is a disc drive, if games demand connectivity?"
Playing old games from earlier machines -backward compatibility with the older device versions used to be built in as standard (either via emulation or as a system-on-a-chip).
Playing movies on BR/DVD. They may not be the new & popular thing anymore, but there are a ton of them floating around out there super cheap -including things that are not available streaming.
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UltraHD Bluray. Think you missed that point. Dont want or need yet another component taking up more wall space.
That stopped me from getting a PS5 Pro (Score:1)
UltraHD Bluray. Think you missed that point. Dont want or need yet another component taking up more wall space.
Yes this for me is a huge reason for getting a PS5 to begin with, and the lack of an internal drive (along with the price) means the PS5 Pro is an absolute non-starter for me.
Yes you can get an external drive but like you said, I don't want another component I just want it all in one.
Is it disks or ability to sell games used? (Score:4, Interesting)
How many folks actually prefer a disc when the disc is just an unlock key to access the game after you download it anyway?
Allow folks to re-sell their digital downloaded games (and even movies/TVs) and discs would disappear at even a faster pace.
Re:Is it disks or ability to sell games used? (Score:5, Insightful)
This.
These days discs are nothing more than a shiny dongle to prove you paid for a license, and having the license no longer associated with a tangible object that can be resold is the actual problem. Unfortunately, it will probably take a law to force online software marketplaces to allow you to re-assign your purchases to someone else, since they love the idea that they've found a loophole to first sale doctrine.
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Sure.
On the other hand, I have a shelf full of PS4 and PS5 games that I would like to continue to play.
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On the other hand, I have a shelf full of PS4 and PS5 games that I would like to continue to play.
It seems like anybody in this situation already has a machine that can play those disks, though.
So they can just keep it, and keep using their disks? Even if they buy the new machine.
I doubt "guy who lives in a closet with a ginormous collection of physical games and has to sleep in his gaming chair" makes it into their marketing profiles.
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It seems like anybody in this situation already has a machine that can play those disks, though.
It's about ability to replace the machine that can play those discs, once it stops playing those discs, with a new compatible machine.
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So a company that made cassette players shouldn't ever make CD players unless they include a cassette deck?
Pretty weak argument.
Did you really not read what I wrote? Do you realize that I addressed your point, and you replied to argue it anyway? Are you really living in a closet with a ginormous collection of physical games and sleeping in your gaming chair? No? Then keep your old device, and take care of it. And if it breaks, but a used one to replace it. There is no problem here.
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Guess you like to watch UltraHD movies at an inferior streaming bitrate than what is available on disc.
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Like isn't the correct word, the vast majority are satisfied streaming quality is good enough. Convenience for a bit lower quality is acceptable (same reason CDs died even though music is re-listened too more than videos). Filling up your house with disks is not worth it to most, and the market has spoken.
Cheer up, you can feel superior looking down on everyone else from your mountain of disks you sit on!
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Then why did you buy a 4k tv in the first place? The bitrate of 4k streaming is lower than the bitrate of Blu-ray 1080p straight off the disc. Shit I get better streams from makemkv on 1080p blu-ray and a very high bitrate H.265 using handbrake that look superior being upscaled by my 4k TV than most actual 4k streams online. And that quality is still lower than an actual UltraHD blu-ray disc. If youre going by the argument of “good enough” then stop buying 4k tvs and stop buying super high end v
Re: Tomorrow's Hardware (Score:2)
Lay off the weed for a while mate.
Not that disks are better- (Score:1)
Doesn't affect me, but I get it (Score:2)
Some people - a lot of people if you're in the US - have really crappy internet connections, and probably a monthly data cap to make it even worse. For them, a physical copy is almost a must. But it also begs the question, why is an internet connection all but a must for consoles? Even with a physical copy, a lot of games need to download various assets (not talking patches h
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What if it turns out the US is actually the worlds biggest market for digitally-delivered games? Wouldn't that blow a hole in your thesis?
Then there's the game preservation aspect.
That's not a perspective that even exists for the company selling consoles, though, so it's only good for yelling at the clouds. Finding a reason for that is low-hanging fruit these days.
Exactly what they want you to stop doing. (Score:3)
Sharing, lending, exchanging. They l know what they're doing and they're doing it for money and money only. Any game shared is a lost sales opportunity.
No discs, no ownership. (Score:5, Insightful)
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you don't own anything anymore
I'm okay with this. Entertainment is fleeting. It's not something that needs to be owned, it's something to be consumed and is readily available. I literally an hour ago went to sit down at my computer to play a round of No Man's Sky, saw that an update was queued, and decided to play something else instead. I was still entertained which is the ultimate goal of gaming.
It's a completely fungible process for anything but the most diehard gaming fans - the kind who can only ever enjoy one game and whose life w
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This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone feels the same way. Most people, in fact, disagree with your whole "bend over and take it from our corporate masters, we must consume consume consume" philosophy.
It's not just about entertaining people like you who constantly need keys dangled in front of them because they don't have enough to occupy their starving brains. It's about preserving our cultural and our history. These things matter, a fact your smooth brain can't possibly comprehend.
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Why would that come as a surprise to me? I literally mentioned in my post that there are edge cases?
Most people, in fact, disagree
I'm sure you can provide a link to a study on the topic? I won't wait though because you're speaking out of your arse.
bend over and take it from our corporate masters, we must consume consume consume
Congrats, you didn't understand my post in the slightest.
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Oh trust me, just because you have a disc, doesn't mean you own it.
Driving piracy (Score:2)
No such thing as physical media anymore (Score:3)
Even if you buy a disc, the code is what matters. ALL the data on the disc, one installed, gets replaced when you update. Discs are utterly pointless for games. The only nice thing a disc player does it let you play blurays, and who the fuck does that anymore? I haven't loaded a disc into my bluray players in literally years.
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No point buying the disk anymore...but if you own older games on disc, it's nice to still be able to play them. And personally, I don't own a Blu Ray player, and I like having the ability to play one using my console. Author overstates the importance, but all thing being equal, it's prefereable for physical disks to be an option, as it was for the standard PS5.
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So you'll need to keep your old console, so that you can play them, and having less used consoles on the market also benefits console makers.
Ps5 pro, 2 comments (Score:3)
1) I have an early ps5. Works great. The idea of dropping another $700 or so to get somewhat better graphics in a limited set of games does not appeal. Anyone who didn't buy a regular ps5 by now is not going to run out there for a pro version. They will sell some units but it won't be a huge rush.
2) I bought the disk version of ps5 because I figured I'd want to own physical media, etc, etc. The reality is I bought a single disk game very early on but that was it. Complete waste of money. YMMV, but there's nothing wrong with all the no media cloud-only shit for most people. Yes, yes, I know I don't really own it and all that and can't resell it, yards yadda. I never would have resold disks if I bought them all, either. From th4 comfort of my couch, my lazy ass can switch games all day long without ever having to get up to fuck around with a disk library and swapping and blah blah blah. Did that with earlier systems. I'll pass, thanks. The other thing about digital purchase is it's a lot easier to do things like fast sales and free add-on packs and whatever that'll never happen on a disk sale. I've bought a ton of shit that's still full price in the stores near me but went on big sale on Sony's game store.
Bought an extra ssd and the higher end controller which is actually pretty awesome compared to the regular one, and a stand to hold it vertical safely. That's it. Done with ps5 hardware purchases. Waiting to ps6.
i am the only one (Score:2)
i maybe the only one that uses the ps5 for uhd video as well. i guess i will hold on to it as long as possible
I think they DO want a diskless future... (Score:2)
I sure do. I hate buying disks. I'd much rather download the game digitally.
What I want is the ability to share or sell that game when I am done with it. That has zero to do with physical media. That's paradigm shift in digital goods sales that needs to be changed.
It's no the disks, it's the non-ownership (Score:1)
Granted, disks aren't "ownership of the IP" but at least with non-DRM'd disks (and DRM'd disks that aren't tied to an account or device) you can sell your copy like a book, or should I say, like a copy-protected Blu-Ray movie disc.
That, plus good disk packaging looks nice on the bookshelf/display case.
Downloads are more convenient, alas (Score:2)
The lack of second-sale support is unfortunate, but fumbling around for physical media when we want to play games, or even worrying whether the physical media might be scratched and how to get patches for it are good reasons to ditch physical media.
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The reason I fell out with Steam was forced patching. Developers don't just fix bugs, they replace content to suit whatever agenda they've got going at at the time. Whether that's adding crappy launchers or new DRM or changing the engine to a "definitive edition" that offers no benefits and breaks all your mods, it's amazing how many times I wish I could just use the physical one instead of weighing up finding a pirate copy of the last known good edition.
At the risk of speaking for you I'm guessing you don'
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Nah, I play a lot of videogames. Although "a lot" means that I have the option of just switching to another game; my steam and epic libraries combined are quite large and I have a lot of games I'm excited about and bought but haven't started on yet. So there's a bit of that.
The idea that games on disc let you easily manage versions is unfortunately not that workable - unless you see it as enough choice to pick between either 1.0 or the current edition of the game, you're still probably not going to have a c
Is the PS5 Pro a set top box (Score:2)
If it has to be connected to the Internet and I can't install games outside of the "cloud". With many games basically unplayable while offline.
Then is this a game console or a rather expensive set top box? But with a rather unreliable ethernet jack compared to just about every other set top box.
There's no secondary market (Score:2)
Discs create a possibility for a secondary market. Completely online games assure that there's only one market, and that is the publisher's to gain from alone.
I like secondary markets. I think buying used junk for less than the retail price is fun. On the Switch I buy a game and play it, and there it is always. The shelf is infinitely wide. I don't run out of shelf space and my house doesn't get more cluttered, no additional plastic enters the system. Digital purchases are fine. There was a place called Gam
Physical media alone won't save you (Score:2)
Buying a AAA title on disc for PS5 does nothing for you if:
1). The game needs a connection to the publisher's servers and/or Sony online services to run
2). The game requires a Day 1 patch to not be a broken mess
The publisher can kill the servers, making the client software useless. Or even if they don't, having an unpatched copy of the game on disc for archival purposes does you no good. You'll want the game installed on the console, fully patched and with all DLC/goodies installed that came with your cop
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